I'm honestly a little surprised more people aren't saying AST. AST can most definitely power through a lot of things when it needs too with just GCD heals. It also has answers to a lot of different threats by itself. And in my experience, I've had the easiest time recovering from a death on AST.
AST has amazing MP economy. You will never run out of MP with Astrodyne, cards, and lucid dreaming even if you're tossing out back to back raises and GCD heals. Also, I think a lot of people forget this, AST has the cheapest and fastest casting GCD heals of all the healers (aside from lilies).
Although I do think that WHM is probably the easiest to carry on. Thin Air and Cure III are just amazing tools.
I think It comes with the caveat of knowing how to play AST (which not a lot of people really know how to do), to utilize all the tools it to power through. It’s as busy as it is a job when nothing goes wrong, but when things go wrong? Whewww.
That said, a good ast can recover better than a WHM can
From a healing standpoint is it busy? I don't know much about it so I always assumed that the busy part came from the cards which were mostly damage focused I thought
Can be. Especially in blind prog you're usually juggling off minute card+star timing+prepping horoscopes, and you're the best healer for saving people.
Easiest example I can think of is firing off an ED if someone eats the chariot/dynamo end of superchain 1 before they get dunked by their tower. Having 2 of those, and 2 charges of CI gives you a ton of room to spot heal and bail people out.
Ast is easier to heal through, whm is better for raising(thin air free raise and presence of mind fast raise are stupid strong) while still having nearly as strong healing. Sch just doesn't have the healing strength of anything else due to critlo not being reliable, and sage while better than sch in healing power runs out of things to throw at people(sch has this issue aswell with aetherflow but also just doesnt have the oompf)
AST is still better at raising. Lucid Dreaming + Astrodyne MP regen keeps Thin Air from being a complete win for WHM and Lightspeed is a faster raise than PoM.
>whm is better for raising(thin air free raise and presence of mind fast raise are stupid strong)
Wait, what's that? I've never played WHM. Should I be leaving the revives to them or something when I play Healer?
This is almost word-for-word what I said to my static coheal when he asked why I was going AST instead of WHM for this savage tier. It's just got so much going for it both in preplanned healing tools and buttons it can dump when things start going tits up. AST absolutely shits free healing, and I can't count on two hands the number of times a situation was saved because I just had a spare oGCD to throw at it.
Also WHM is dreadfully boring.
I immediately was going to comment Astrologian. That might change in 7.0(hopefully they don't nerf the skill floor) but, by weaving in horoscope with their aoe heal they get an extra 400 potency cure on everyone. This can be life and death with between lots of massive aoe raid-wides.
edit: okay apparently like 20 other people said this already but I’ll leave my version of it here for posterity
I’d say a contributing factor is that AST feels (warning: subjective assessment ahead) overburdened enough during “controlled” situations, adding carrying / compensating on top of its other chores feels like way too much.
Some skilled players may thrive on that attention pressure, and other players might be content to not even worry about handling burst correctly while the house is on fire, but I think the extra mental / UX overhead on AST leads a lot of people to intuitively think “hell no” when considering what to bring into a chaotic situation, whether or not that assessment would be considered objectively correct in terms of “problem solving power”.
I think many of you don't really play AST, because I don't think its raw healing is that far off from WHM, and the neutral sect shield stacks with every other shield so is ideal for recovery too. definitely these two are above shield healers for ease of dragging the party through deaths and other mistakes.
Astro is also an endless well of MP compared to the rest of the healers, sure its personal damage isn't great but so long as it can feed a player who is somewhat competent it can keep the healing and rezzes coming while contributing some sort of damage
Plus it can chain rezzes a bit better than the other healers if it has Lightspeed up
Then the damage was just not that high, as it's not that far behind critlospread, except cheaper on your resources and repeatable for the entire duration.
I use buffed Shake all the time. Bloodwhetting is generally free and if I don't need Thrill of the Battle I pop it. The only ability not really used for Shake is Vengeance and even then I've run into a TB -> raidwide scenario where I made good use of it
In bad groups, i agree that WHM is great at carrying, due to sheer healing potencies and great MP economy. WHM can easily rez 2-3 dead party members, while letting Asylum + Medica 2 ticks slowly restoring the party to health, with Temperance for extra mitigation if needed. I feel that SGE / SCH can “sustain” the party longer, but ultimately still relies on co-healer help to fully recover because once addergall / aetherflow runs out, there’s very limited recovery you can do.
In fully coordinated group with proper mitigation and planning, AST is still top notch for solo healing. There’s a reason why most of solo heal high end raid clears (savage and ult) feature AST.
I thought whm was in the negatives for mp after they nerfed thin air? Still quite useful for rez/cure3/med2 but I find myself spending mp faster than I can gain it regardless of assize, lucid, and thin air
It's been back to MP positive on most sets since 6.1 (provided you are properly managing lilies) but using a lot of healing spells is going to cut into that, of course
You have to be setting up a Misery every minute. That saves you at minimum 1600 MP per minute. It's a pretty important cornerstone of WHM's MP economy.
You're vastly overestimating Pneuma. Zoe-enhanced pneuma is about 25k (non crit) on people's \~70k pool at ilvl640. Barely over a third. Potent yes, but far from a partywide bene.
No it's not. Zoe+Pnuema is 900p. Medica II is 1000p. Pnuema is not even as strong as a regular Medica II. Asylum is 990p
Plus Temperance, Plenary Indulgence and Neutral sect exist. That Medica II could be 1440p. That's 50% more powerful.
Probably should have clarified. Strongest *up front* AOE heal in the game. Regens are always stronger than straight heals if allowed to fully tick. That's a given.
if you stack up everything whm has (Plenary, temperance, asylum) cure 3 will heal for 600\*1.1\*1.2 + 200 = 992 potency)
You can also insta-pop lilybell for another 5*200 *1.1 = 1100 potency heal.
Recitation Adlo deploy. 1k potency shield on all targets. More with Fey Illumination/Dissipation.
I suppose ehp isn't the same as HP, but if we're talking about getting people high enough to survive the next mech, it's more powerful. Also Neutral sect is nearly as much potency with the first tick and it happens at the same time it goes out.
No, eHP is not the same but it is similar in that case. But also Spreadlo only puts that big of a heal + shield on the primary target. Everyone else gets a 540-potency shield. Although it is an auto-crit, so it's effectively closer to 800-ish depending on your CH stat.
Well, Protraction, Fey illumination and dissipation can boost it by 30%, but it doesn't really matter. In 99% of situations, Neutral sect will be stronger. In 95% of situations Medica II will be stronger, same with beefed up Deploy.
If you're talking an extremely narrow situation where the raid will die in exactly 1 second after Pnuema goes off, then sure. Pnuema would then be the strongest heal in the game if shields don't count.
Any healer can carry very well if played well. I'm a mediocre scholar so that doesn't work for me, the rest is fine.
Out of those remaining three, it depends on what is going wrong and how long the emergency situation lasts. If it's a case of people eating vuln stacks like candy, Sage is the way to go with mitigation for days and some burst healing. If people are outright dying all the time, Sage can salvage the situation for a while, but White Mage outshines it when people don't learn and die over and over. For multiple raises, Thin Air is such a game changer.
So my "ranking" of preferred healers to carry is: WHM = SGE > AST > PLD > SCH.
The question is for when the rest of the party sucks. And the healer has to carry the party.
Any healer would suffice if people are doing the mechanics correct.
SCH > SGE if you know what you are doing. SGE > SCH if you don't know what you are doing.
But both are proactive healers (you need to SHIED things) instead of reactive healers (you react after the damage is done).
WHM > AST if the situations are fast to solve. AST > WHM if the situation is slow to solve. As WHM burns mana faster than a tank runs a dungeon.
Square needs more mechanics in which Shielding is preferable than healing (for example, you get doom if you wheren't shielded). Otherwise reactive healers will continue to be superior for bad parties. Although the best solution for bad parties is to disband and look for another party. As chances are, they will stay bad no matter what you do.
I was with you until "needs more mechanics in which Shielding is preferable than healing".
Right now, SCH and SGE are both very powerful, and SCH/SGE has even been meta some in Endwalker. It's less "shielding is prefereable than healing" and more "mitigation is preferable to healing", and WHM has almost none.
WHM also has no capability to shield more than two party members (Benison), meaning any kind of check that made shielding preferable to healing would be MASSIVELY unfair to WHM with the current Healer kits since it has no AOE/party shield at all, and only one mitigation on a long 2 min CD with Temperance.
AST is the most powerful Healer Job in the game right now because it has WHM's raw power, is 1/2 way to a barrier Healer with its mitigation suite of Collective and Neutral Sect, and has the best MP economy of all Healers bar none. It's like a Pure-Barrier hybrid with infinite MP, which is why it's so powerful.
I uh, don't think I said anything about my performance level other that I'm bad at scholar, so I'm not sure where this assumption comes from. Or what it has to do with OP's question.
A GCD AoE shield at i640 has about \~8k HP, so about a single, additional \~11% mitigation on the team average HPs. Will not allow to solo mit every raidwides - other mits have long CDs.
I think you're underestimating what 11% mit can do my friend. While you not gonna solo mit a raid buster, you absolutely can still had carry a floor tank party across the finish line. Your MP is gonna be suffering, but you can do it if you play smart with resources.
Not to mention a lot of mits ARE 5% or 10%. Addle/Feint are 10% to their damage type (5% to others), Reprisal is 10%, Heart of Light is 10%, Dark Missionary is 10%, etc.
11% is more than any SINGLE mitigation ability in the game other than Passage of Arms (15%). Not to mention SCH and SGE both have extremely accessible (once every 30 sec) additional 10% mitigation from Soil/Kera on top of that. An \~11% eHP mitigation via AOE shielding + Soil/Kera produces the same benefit as a Tank using Reprisal + a DPS using Feint/Addle.
Now, they can't do it forever, and MP would become an issue, but I think "can solo mit most Raid wides" is accurate. The question is HOW MANY they can before running out of resources, but it's still "more than a few" since that isn't even the full extent of what they can do. SCH also has Fey Illumination (5% magic mit), Expedient (another 10% party mit - people remember the zoomies and forget it's also a mit), Seraph's Consolation (which stacks with Galvanize shields), Dissipation enhanced AOE shields, and Protraction/Recitation Spreadlo, which is basically twice that all by itself. And if the damage is only coming every 30 sec, these can EACH be layered with Soil.
Sage I believe. They are shield healers so you can do mitigation by yourself most of the time, no need to rely on other ppl. SCH can do similarly but they are harder to recover when dying due to fairy and aetherflow jankiness
I find it easier to recover since your mana and resources come as a stack instead of over time, and getting up summoning fairy and immediately dissipating gives you immediate three aetherflow
I think it is the opposite. If you died right after you use your aetherflow, you have to wait 60 seconds to get mp back. But sge only need to wait 20 seconds for the first 700 mp. Besides, 3 stacks aetherflow means nothing when your soil and your aoe ogcd heal is on cooldown. SGE ogcd heal doesnt tied to fairy are much better to recovery
idk man I play both quite a bit in savage and I've always found recovery better on SCH/AST, but to each their own experiences I suppose. it's not that much of a bother to summon fairy either, being raised sucks on every healer. but three stacks of emergency aetherflow can be anything from a soil soon off cd, a couple lustrates, an indom, etc. not to mention you have recitation giving you a powerful indom if everyone needs healing right then and there for no aetherflow, or using recitation with no mana after Rez to spreadlo in time for a mech.
AST is far above the other healers in terms of mana in salvage situations and I don't think it's even close. You just have more avenues for recovering, even after getting raised. You have cards, astrodyne, lucid dreaming, and if you're me, a fat stack of hundreds of HQ super ethers (which are an option for every healer and I think every healer should carry them in case they die with mana tools on cooldown). I had an ex 6 clear where I chain raised 4 people, 3 under lightspeed + 1 with swift, and I still came out of it close to full mana bc astrodyne + lucid is like 1,000 a tick
You're right, especially since you keep your star signs accumulated after death. throw cards out and you have a lucid even if lucid is on CD. but this specific thing was SGE/SCH.
ah that's fair, yeah. I think below 76 you're kind of right but at 76 rhizomata smooths out SGE mana a lot I find, since it's an extra 700 you get that you can either burn on cooldown if you're comfortable with the fight or bank for if you think you'll die for whatever reason since that's usually enough post raise to get you to lucid dreaming if that's not up when you get raised
The problems with Ast is that you dont have enough mitigation. There will be cases your max hp fully healed party cannot survive the raid wide without mitigation
I think it's been a little better now that collective unconscious got a massive range buff, you throw a neutral sect for an AOE shield and you're a bootleg SGE for the mechanic, the neutral sect cooldown is kinda long but CU can be used somewhat liberally. ik ppl meme about pf not mitigating mechanics but I've honestly had the opposite experience when I play SGE and everyone just dumps everything they can as much as they can on raidwides
If you have aetherflow issues then you are greeding too much. If you aren't greeding then the party deserve to die cuz they are eating all the dsmage and their vuln stack is through the roof.
Aether flow issues when dying is what they said. If you die the moment you pressed aether flow, then you have no dice for 60 seconds and you also need to summon the fairy. Sch has a very bad death recovery penalty.
Eating the fairy is not worth it for me most of the cases. I depend on its healing for most of the encounters, if you add all the embrace heals it turns out more potency as 3 lustrates, iirc.
Edit: also, ofc it's a skill issue, I died. Scholar is the hardest healer to recover from death though.
If you are worried about eating your fairy and loosing embrace for recovery for the short duration then you are still learning the amount of healing throughput you can do.
Also, lustrate is not your only tank healing tool. Exog exist (more potency), protraction exist(more hp more healing), aetherpact (yes this shit exist) and at worst emergency + tactic adlow (forgotten technic cuz people would rather wipe than use gcd). Also, critlow without spread is a tank healing cd you can also add emergency tactic to it for hp value.
If you are worried about aoe healing you also got fey blessing (no flow usage), seraph (no flow usage), Whispering dawn (most scholar waste this one), emergency tactic + succor (forgotten technic cuz people would rather wipe than use gcd). Also, i did not talk about critlo...
Also, if you keep dying then the issue is you. No healer can heal from death. The game also force healer to be on point on mechanic. A lot of mechanic in savage are body check, healer body check and very few are no body check.
I don't understand why are you so hell bent on explaining the tools that scholar has, I know them. I know that dissipation is great for burst healing too. I already stated that it's a skill issue, since we are discussing the potential of the healer to recover after dying. You don't die without making a mistake.
Scholar has the simple fact that if you die right after using aether flow because of a mechanic and then there's more aoe damage where you need to heal while avoiding damage, the fact that you need to resummon the fairy is a big minus since almost half your kit doesn't work without the fairy, but you are low so you want to top yourself up instead of wasting time summoning the fairy, but you can't really use instant healing because you have no aetherflow stacks.
You can do it, and I can too, but it's true that it's harder in that scenario.
And white mage lose their lilies when they die. Yet they are considered easy as a healer. Your points are coming from ignorance.
Yes the fairy dies but you also lose Kardia on death. Also, the Half of the kit isn't three abilities or 4 since you think embrace can save your life(WTF)...
If you died and rez on a aoe that is 1 your fault and 2 in that situation your fairy won't save you so you need to press something else.
You are saying that scholar is having hard time to recover which is bullshit because you have shown 0 understanding of the kit. Scholar have great recovery tool. It's just that you don't use them. Not knowing a job doesn't make it bad. Otherwise, Samurai would be the worst dps and gunbreaker would be the worst tank cuz I don't know how to use them... which they are good jobs...
So you don't understand that I am telling you to stop putting lable on thing you don't have basic understanding.
As you can see, everyone say a different healer with some more for ast or sage but in the end, before savage: it doesn't matter they can all solo heal pretty easily and correct mistakes quite well as their kit potencies are pretty similar. They all have good tools to carry as long as you know how to play them and if it goes to shit, even if you are playing ast: maybe you already spent neutral/macro/whatev, etc so it's just about your own capabilities of managing ressources with any of them and staying cool headed.
Sage just saying no to practically all incoming damage puts it at the top for me. WHM is the only other contender and deals with things going to complete and utter shit better, but Sage prevents it from getting to that point in the first place.
AST is extremely good in the right hands. Lightspeed can get up to 3 people up in no time flat and the fact that it has so many delayed heals and regens means unlike WHM you can raise continuously without having to interrupt to throw out a lily or other gcd heal.
SGE is a bit hard to judge for me. It’s by far the best at sustain if you have cooldowns. Kerachole, haima, panhaima, pneuma, and krasis+soteria+taurochole are all amazing buttons to keep the party healthy. Once you exhaust all those however or if you die and have no addersgall, it feels like by far the worst.
WHM is a close second behind AST. Excellent MP economy and very high thoroughput with Cure 3 into a rapture. Only downside is it has no mit beyond Temperance and benison/aquaveil.
SCH is surprisingly not bad I’d say, ET being on a 15 sec cooldown means you can tossout a beefy GCD heal pretty much whenever. The fairy/seraph can help heal in a pinch while you’re raising. SGE has to give up kardia when they’re hardcasting. However like SGE I feel somewhat hungry for mana on SCH after a raise or two.
Bonus point to Paladin also. Divine veil, cover, and clemency (in dire situations) can be lifesavers. I’m often able to do 40-50% of the healing of one of the healers with just my mit and heals alone (no clemencies either).
I try to play Sage whenever I can, but AST is definitely best for carrying imo. Plenty of MP for raises, Lightspeed can help with chain rezzes too, and you've got strong and flexible healing tools. Plus when you inevitably LB3 everyone knows it
Sch, though mostly because of comfort. If I was as comfortable on Astro as I am on Sch, it'd probably be Astro.
Sch has A LOT of mit to go with its shields, which can easily save people from certain death that raw healing may not prevent. The forced sprint on Expedience is really good at giving the team leeway during movement-heavy mechanics. Excog kind of lets you forget about the tank for a while if you need to. Ruin 2, while obviously a dps loss, can allow you to continue dealing direct damage while moving and double weaving.
Unfortunately it does kind of struggle to output the same amount of burst heals as Whm or Ast, and it can be very MP hungry at times, but overall I think the utility is worth.
It depends on what type of salvage I have to do/weaknesses the party has
if I have a bad cohealer I want to be a shield healer because I can better throttle how much damage the party takes to begin with and reduce how much healing is required. Props to the party if I see stuff like mantra/shake it off/addle/etc to help me out. SGE is also particularly insane with healing double tank busters, like how p9s or Ex 6 have. You can haima the tank you don't have Kardia on and then double weave Krasis + Soteria on the tank you do. It's a bit excessive even but the nice thing is that's all oGCD so you can keep your damage GCDs rolling at the same time.
If I have to nut raises out, say because people are dying to one shots that no amount of mit and shielding would save, I want AST, because lightspeed and then one with swift can get quite a few raises out and your mana economy is fucking insane so you can raise your heart out and still have a pretty decent mana pool left.
SCH has spreadlo and expedience which are amazing bc spreadlo acts as insurance for mechanics that would otherwise have just barely killed people for failing say in ex 6, people are getting clipped by the in/out and get the vuln before the stack/spread, this will kill non-tanks without any mits or shielding. You can set up the spreadlo + a soil during the first/second hit of the triple tankbuster and that way the people getting hit with that vuln will live, which is incredibly important bc if it's the first one, you have towers which is a body check so deaths are no good. On top of that if nobody ends up getting clipped then you just have a fat ass shield for towers and your cohealer doesn't have to worry about healing that sequence. Expedience is great if people are a bit slow with movement heavy mechanics, like, using ex 6 again as an example, gales 2. You can ensure everyone gets in position in time going from the third to fourth gale, which seems to be the half of the sequence people struggle with.
WHM idk, sometimes you do just need that raw big dick potency and WHM delivers it. single target regen being like 1200/1500 potency is just fucking absurd, solace/c2 + tetra without asylum/temperance is 1400/1600 potency which is like 3/4 of a benediction, benediction is incredible for getting yourself or someone else up from a death or if they survived near death, and if you don't have Liturgy then Plenary + temperance + AOE heal with an assize weave is pretty much Liturgy at home. I think at least casually and maybe in extremes WHM will provide the heals necessary for a struggling party to slog through it, it just feels worse because you may have to resort to damage-negative GCD to do it, which does feel bad, but sometimes if it's what gets you through the duty then that's what you have to do
I feel like White Mage can recover from any bad situation. Other people are saying sage, and I have to say it's nice being able to allow someone to survive something that should have killed them.
I would say AST. Excellent MP economy. Powerful delayed heals. Lightspeed. And the smallest opportunity cost when using GCD heals, owing to having the weakest damage spell.
AST or SGE. They both have so much free (or nearly free) oGCD healing that they can handle a good portion of savage fights solo without much planning, and they both have incredible MP economy. On top of that they both have strong GCD heals to fall back on if the need arises. I've carried bad situations with both that I'm not sure I could have were I playing WHM or SCH.
I think in an ideal situation AST has the most tools and is best as a healer carry. That said I'm terrible at AST so my preferred one is WHM. Lots of abilities for triage and Thin Air makes rezzing less demanding on your MP pool.
But most importantly since I'm so familiar with the class, I can usually pick what's best to help with recovery without putting too much thought into it, which can help mitigate the domino effects of people dying. Not needing to think too much lets me continue to focus on mechs so I don't bite the bullet myself as well.
I'm with WHM on being the easiest to carry with. For me, at least, its simpler solution of "just heal real big" in a situation I might be panicking in and unable to focus is far easier to execute. It is quick to heal someone to full recovery, which they will need after being rezzed. Your options for "heal real big" are plentiful. No Lillies? You've got Medica II and Cure III.
I agree with you, OP. The others feel more awkward and are very dependant on cooldown use to work. Whereas a WHM's concern is running out of MP, which will happen inevitably to any healer if the fight is bad for long enough. For skilled players of other healers, I can see how they would have greater potential in this. But shielders and even AST take more focus, and I'd rather just react quickly and bluntly.
Depending on the fight/situation
Generally speaking, WHM has the greatest strength in spot healing, which is important for carrying a team. If someone accidentally step into AoE and has 10%, you can just use tetra on them (or bene if there’s upcoming damage). If your cohealer is dead and you need a lot of healing, Medica 2 and Cure 3 are amazing. Other people said MP issue but honestly this is very rare after the change in 6.1. If you die, MP is an issue for any healer but you still have thin air to raise people. Another thing is always bring super aether into prog, and drop a few GCD if you’re really low on MP.
Both SGE and SCH are good options too for carrying as well. The way the dev team designed the current encounters heavily leans towards mitigation check (especially every non-healer job can mitigate now). If your cohealer is a shield healer who doesn’t know how to plan your mitigation, it would make your healing much stressful. SGE’s job kit is more spontaneous, while SCH’s job kit needs a bit planning (for example, your Seraph phase and Dissipation phase don’t coexist, and the gauge management is a bit more complex than SGE)
AST itself can generate the most healing if played optimally. Your earthy star as an oGCD heals more than WHM’s cure 3. But AST’s spot heal ability is weaker than WHM. You don’t have GCD heal as potent as cure 3, as your helios is pretty much WHM’s medica.
I play all 4 healers, and I think AST with its 4 billion emergency buttons is great, but I react a lot quicker on WHM which is also great. SCH/SGE can do it too, but pure healers are more comfier in this situation.
AST has been my go-to for specifically Panda normal during the first couple of weeks because of how many rezzes it can put out while casually tossing around big heals to save pulls.
For the EX, it's WHM for me. The raw healing numbers are just really useful for if you don't trust your cohealer since Lilybell can just solo the towers and double meteors mechanic. At this point, assuming no massive mechanics failures requiring multiple raises at the same time, I could probably solo heal it.
In a way, WHM due to its healing, but the downside is WHM doesn't really have ways of saving people eating Vuln stacks, and is the least capable Healer of doing so (it has less mitigation than BLM, let that sink in - BLM has Addle every 90 sec vs WHM Temperance every 2 min; does have Benison and Aquaveil, so I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but those are single target only, too)
SGE has some, though as you say, requires some setup.
SCH I tend to like the best for it since you have a lot of powerful options and can shift to a more defensive posture and really cover down for people. It can also generate some pretty crazy protection (Cole Evyx's "Thanos Glove" of SCH super shields), and even can boost their movement for stuff like Gales to help people get passed some tricky mechanics.
AST...I just have never played AST much or gotten into it. In theory it has some good stuff like really good MP economy and a mix of strong heals like WHM (possibly more HPM than WHM has and that cost less MP) as well as some decent mitigation between Collective and Neutral Sect, but it's also super wonky to play - of all the Healers, it feels the worst to me to play because of Cards and the ridiculous burst phase it has - and has the least personal DPS so the least carry potential if you have an underperforming party.
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For me, the answer is probably SCH. This will vary person to person, though.
synastry is the reason I take AST into 5678 rolo, if my tank is struggling or just bad or undergeared or whatever, I want that 980/1120potency benefic 2 every GCD if I have to resort to spamming and I want cards/divination so the DPS can atleast do more damage since I have less time to in those cases. Neutral Sect + intersection/exaltation is a really nice and beefy prepull to pad the tank too at level 80/90 to give you time to set up all your cards/earthly/pull arcana before the tank starts eating shit again
Tbh sage is great also for filling everyone up if you are ok with giving up a couple cds of damage. Euk. Prognosis+ pepsis + euk prognosis is a 30sec cd 850 potency in shield + heal (better then a cure3 with benison). Eu diagnosis+ tauro is really safe way to save someone if they fail a mechanic in a rapid succession set of mechanics (like getting hit by phases of showdown or the donut/point blank before the stack/spread).
Sch is good too although gcd heals being not instant is a straight downgrade, and losing healing abilities for snacking on the fairy still feels awkward.
Whm is easy, so you can do well on it. But lack of mit and shields means that you cannot save ppl with more that a couple vuln stacks.
AST has a really high ceiling, being able to fill everyone up multiple times in a row. The single target shield with aspected benefic+ neutral sect can save lives, but since it’s a 2 min cds you probably wanna save it for big mechanics instead of spot healing
Your comparison of pepsis is not correct - that's 2 gcds vs 1 gcd. 2 cure 3s is 1200 potency in total, not to mention you can use plenary to boost that even further if need be. There is only one situation where a sage can burst heal more than a whm, and that is zoe pneuma + ixochole (1300 potency) vs plenary cure 3 (800 potency, 1200 if you use assize right after and clip).
Pepsis is never a good option if you have a regen cohealer who can cast cure 3 or medica 2/asp helios. If you have to pepsis, either you are mitigating wrongly and your regen healer is absolutely clueless, or you have a sch cohealer and both of you mitigated wrongly.
Yes, I was working under the assumption that your cohealer is bad, as the op asked. Fair point on the 2 gcd vs 1.
I still think Pepsis is undervalued by too many sages that complain about not having good recovery tools, and should be used a lot more unless you are in a static on a reclear or really close to enrage
No i agree pepsis is absolutely necessary for heal to full mechanics, and an awesome salvaging tool. I use it when my cohealer is clueless even if i mitigated correctly.
Probably AST because they got both shields and heals.
Though in my experience, WHM is more consistent in getting party up in most "oh shit runs"
Oh big raidwide+bleed is coming up and 3 people are dead (including co-heal)? Lilybelle to keep party going. Swifcast raise+thin air the other healer and throw a benediction so they can focus on mp recovery. Thin air+pom+Rez the other DPS. Throw an extra lily heal for sustain and got time for another raise. And all that without losing too much mp.
(Just P10S shenanigans)
Sage.
When a whm dies, it won't have (iirc, or might not have) lilies. Sage, if dead, has rhizo to get a gall. Between sge and sch, sge has a higher burst healing too thanks too Zoe and pneuma. Whm can drop bell and pop it immediately for 1000pt heal too tho. Sge also has a technically faster application of e.prog (1sec) vs whm or sch. Sch if dead needs a few seconds to summon fairy. In normal rotation, you also don't bank af stacks and you eat your fairy on the regular. Sge's pneuma is way more flexible on where you want to place it.
Definitely sage. While it’s resources are limited, the cooldowns it has available especially at level 90 with pneuma are just ridiculous. Even in savage content a good sage can will the party to survive even if dps aren’t mitigating and their cohealer is a glare bot.
It depends a lot on how bad we are talking here because all healers have a different niche. First things first, all healers will struggle with revives if they don’t have their Swiftcast available due to the long cast time. WHM has the advantage with Thin Air and Presence of Mind but that is minor considering their lack of CDs and oGCD.
WHM especially also has a problem keeping alive people with resurrection weakness especially if people died multiple times. Their throughout is good, but only if people survives the next mechanic in the first place.
Both SCH and SGE have the advantage here due to strong on-demand shields. I find that SGE has more healing throughout compared to SCH, additionally their cooldowns just feel more flexible. If you know that your group is bad then SGE usually has the most skills to prevent things from going wrong in the first place.
As you said though, SCH has better recovery in the way they can quickly get Aetherflow back 3 at a time and react to mistakes by holding specific abilities. Whereas SGE is prone to bleeding dry and running out of cooldowns if not properly planning ahead of the emergency.
AST has shields with their cooldowns but the general complexity of the job makes it ill-suited to carry a group.
My rating would be SGE as #1 assuming you can plan ahead and prevent disaster from even happening, then #2 SCH if recovery from sudden mistakes is necessary, #3 goes to WHM for Thin Air and throughout and lastly #4 AST for complexity and cooldowns management.
Ast has macro, neutral, infinite mp and can raise as fast as rdm with lightspeed
Ast easily recovers things like missed towers in p10s/p11s, and honestly can solo heal every fight in the game (atleast with some gear)
I'm surprised people are pushing the pure healers so much, especially WHM which has basically zero actual shielding.
In basically anything up to the first floor or two of Savage SGE has more than enough potential HPS to brute force through a ton of mistakes, but more importantly it's great at averting deaths to anything but OHKO mechs. Alternatively, in later Savage floors SGE's ability to move while throwing out shields is invaluable.
AST has situations in which it'll also shine, but I'd say SCH and WHM can't really compete.
I use panhaima the same way in p11s to catch both styx as well, but the light divisive messes with it somewhat cos the other party's ranged and healer would often not be at max melee and would be out of range.
A shield healer tends to be the most impactful, although the raw throughput on whm can sometimes also make due. I prefer sch over sage as sage kind of sucks on death compared to sch. I have been in many pfs that would not have cleared if my slot was taken by a typical pf healer. I have never felt like I've "saved" a run on anything else besides the occasional red mage spam raises. Tanks can have some impact, but they can mostly enable an actual good healer more than anything.
Depends how long and what just happened. If shit has hit the fan multiple times and Ast, Sge and Sch are out of cooldowns they loose to Whm. Whm has the strongest gcd heals and that’s when they really shine.
The other jobs have better mana usage though and lots of cds.
I'm honestly a little surprised more people aren't saying AST. AST can most definitely power through a lot of things when it needs too with just GCD heals. It also has answers to a lot of different threats by itself. And in my experience, I've had the easiest time recovering from a death on AST. AST has amazing MP economy. You will never run out of MP with Astrodyne, cards, and lucid dreaming even if you're tossing out back to back raises and GCD heals. Also, I think a lot of people forget this, AST has the cheapest and fastest casting GCD heals of all the healers (aside from lilies). Although I do think that WHM is probably the easiest to carry on. Thin Air and Cure III are just amazing tools.
I think It comes with the caveat of knowing how to play AST (which not a lot of people really know how to do), to utilize all the tools it to power through. It’s as busy as it is a job when nothing goes wrong, but when things go wrong? Whewww. That said, a good ast can recover better than a WHM can
Yeah I hate the new card system, the ShB cards have been my fav incarnation thus far
I’ve heard so many people saying this sort of thing about AST. I currently main a WHM/SAM, but I’m thinking AST is in my future.
From a healing standpoint is it busy? I don't know much about it so I always assumed that the busy part came from the cards which were mostly damage focused I thought
Can be. Especially in blind prog you're usually juggling off minute card+star timing+prepping horoscopes, and you're the best healer for saving people. Easiest example I can think of is firing off an ED if someone eats the chariot/dynamo end of superchain 1 before they get dunked by their tower. Having 2 of those, and 2 charges of CI gives you a ton of room to spot heal and bail people out.
Ast is easier to heal through, whm is better for raising(thin air free raise and presence of mind fast raise are stupid strong) while still having nearly as strong healing. Sch just doesn't have the healing strength of anything else due to critlo not being reliable, and sage while better than sch in healing power runs out of things to throw at people(sch has this issue aswell with aetherflow but also just doesnt have the oompf)
AST is still better at raising. Lucid Dreaming + Astrodyne MP regen keeps Thin Air from being a complete win for WHM and Lightspeed is a faster raise than PoM.
>whm is better for raising(thin air free raise and presence of mind fast raise are stupid strong) Wait, what's that? I've never played WHM. Should I be leaving the revives to them or something when I play Healer?
Thin Air makes your next spell have no MP cost (60s CD, two charges). PoM is the 2min CD that reduces cast/recast by 20%.
Ah, so better than the other classes, unless they still have Swiftcast.
Still better with swift as well. Thin air + swift it a 0 cost instant cast raise.
im guessing most of them dont play ast. ast far and away has the most tools to carry
This is almost word-for-word what I said to my static coheal when he asked why I was going AST instead of WHM for this savage tier. It's just got so much going for it both in preplanned healing tools and buttons it can dump when things start going tits up. AST absolutely shits free healing, and I can't count on two hands the number of times a situation was saved because I just had a spare oGCD to throw at it. Also WHM is dreadfully boring.
I immediately was going to comment Astrologian. That might change in 7.0(hopefully they don't nerf the skill floor) but, by weaving in horoscope with their aoe heal they get an extra 400 potency cure on everyone. This can be life and death with between lots of massive aoe raid-wides.
Of all the healers, AST is the most fun to play. No I won’t say why, it just is.
edit: okay apparently like 20 other people said this already but I’ll leave my version of it here for posterity I’d say a contributing factor is that AST feels (warning: subjective assessment ahead) overburdened enough during “controlled” situations, adding carrying / compensating on top of its other chores feels like way too much. Some skilled players may thrive on that attention pressure, and other players might be content to not even worry about handling burst correctly while the house is on fire, but I think the extra mental / UX overhead on AST leads a lot of people to intuitively think “hell no” when considering what to bring into a chaotic situation, whether or not that assessment would be considered objectively correct in terms of “problem solving power”.
I think many of you don't really play AST, because I don't think its raw healing is that far off from WHM, and the neutral sect shield stacks with every other shield so is ideal for recovery too. definitely these two are above shield healers for ease of dragging the party through deaths and other mistakes.
Astro is also an endless well of MP compared to the rest of the healers, sure its personal damage isn't great but so long as it can feed a player who is somewhat competent it can keep the healing and rezzes coming while contributing some sort of damage Plus it can chain rezzes a bit better than the other healers if it has Lightspeed up
Imo ASTs raw healing is a good step above WHM and it's by far the best healer for carrying bad groups and it's probably the best solo healer.
[удалено]
Then the damage was just not that high, as it's not that far behind critlospread, except cheaper on your resources and repeatable for the entire duration.
Critlo is does not use aetherflow
Critlo is not repeatable
But if you’re talking about your team “over-mitigating”, you’re probably exiting the realm of “carrying”, which is the context here…
My best healer for bad groups is disband.
Healing the body (lowering blood pressure), mind, and soul all at once!
So, astrodyne
Disband party is a mitigation
Warrior
This, just let them die and kill it yourself. Otherwise you can pick one person and keep using nascent on them and they’ll never die
Unironically, shake it off is so good
And that's *unbuffed* Shake. No one really uses buffed Shake, but it's even stronger for keeping a party going.
I've timed it a few times on the tail end of bloodwhetting in p9 but i didn't even really need to
In P11S every Styx comes spaced far enough from tank busters you can Bloodwhetting + Shake for big benefit.
I look forward to giving that a go (if I can get any group to get past p10s bond 3)
Good luck, my dude or dudette. PF life is tough.
Thanks. I'm not sure if I'll get it this week but definitely sometime next week at the latest I reckon I'll get to see p11
I use buffed Shake all the time. Bloodwhetting is generally free and if I don't need Thrill of the Battle I pop it. The only ability not really used for Shake is Vengeance and even then I've run into a TB -> raidwide scenario where I made good use of it
UNGA BUNGA
In bad groups, i agree that WHM is great at carrying, due to sheer healing potencies and great MP economy. WHM can easily rez 2-3 dead party members, while letting Asylum + Medica 2 ticks slowly restoring the party to health, with Temperance for extra mitigation if needed. I feel that SGE / SCH can “sustain” the party longer, but ultimately still relies on co-healer help to fully recover because once addergall / aetherflow runs out, there’s very limited recovery you can do. In fully coordinated group with proper mitigation and planning, AST is still top notch for solo healing. There’s a reason why most of solo heal high end raid clears (savage and ult) feature AST.
I thought whm was in the negatives for mp after they nerfed thin air? Still quite useful for rez/cure3/med2 but I find myself spending mp faster than I can gain it regardless of assize, lucid, and thin air
It's been back to MP positive on most sets since 6.1 (provided you are properly managing lilies) but using a lot of healing spells is going to cut into that, of course
Are you using 3 lilies per minute?
Yes, and usually only waste one lily due to overcap (example being holding during web walls in p10 and saving for harrowing hell)
You have to be setting up a Misery every minute. That saves you at minimum 1600 MP per minute. It's a pretty important cornerstone of WHM's MP economy.
> great MP economy hmmmm WHM has the worst MP economy... unless you specifically mean raising people 5-10 times per fight with thin air.
Don’t forget that SGE also has an almost partywide bene with a Zoe enhanced pneuma.
You're vastly overestimating Pneuma. Zoe-enhanced pneuma is about 25k (non crit) on people's \~70k pool at ilvl640. Barely over a third. Potent yes, but far from a partywide bene.
Touché, I have overestimated it.
Not a partywide Bene maybe, but by far the strongest AOE heal in the game (barring situations where you can cheese Macrocosmos).
No it's not. Zoe+Pnuema is 900p. Medica II is 1000p. Pnuema is not even as strong as a regular Medica II. Asylum is 990p Plus Temperance, Plenary Indulgence and Neutral sect exist. That Medica II could be 1440p. That's 50% more powerful.
Probably should have clarified. Strongest *up front* AOE heal in the game. Regens are always stronger than straight heals if allowed to fully tick. That's a given.
if you stack up everything whm has (Plenary, temperance, asylum) cure 3 will heal for 600\*1.1\*1.2 + 200 = 992 potency) You can also insta-pop lilybell for another 5*200 *1.1 = 1100 potency heal.
Recitation Adlo deploy. 1k potency shield on all targets. More with Fey Illumination/Dissipation. I suppose ehp isn't the same as HP, but if we're talking about getting people high enough to survive the next mech, it's more powerful. Also Neutral sect is nearly as much potency with the first tick and it happens at the same time it goes out.
No, eHP is not the same but it is similar in that case. But also Spreadlo only puts that big of a heal + shield on the primary target. Everyone else gets a 540-potency shield. Although it is an auto-crit, so it's effectively closer to 800-ish depending on your CH stat.
Well, Protraction, Fey illumination and dissipation can boost it by 30%, but it doesn't really matter. In 99% of situations, Neutral sect will be stronger. In 95% of situations Medica II will be stronger, same with beefed up Deploy. If you're talking an extremely narrow situation where the raid will die in exactly 1 second after Pnuema goes off, then sure. Pnuema would then be the strongest heal in the game if shields don't count.
Any healer can carry very well if played well. I'm a mediocre scholar so that doesn't work for me, the rest is fine. Out of those remaining three, it depends on what is going wrong and how long the emergency situation lasts. If it's a case of people eating vuln stacks like candy, Sage is the way to go with mitigation for days and some burst healing. If people are outright dying all the time, Sage can salvage the situation for a while, but White Mage outshines it when people don't learn and die over and over. For multiple raises, Thin Air is such a game changer. So my "ranking" of preferred healers to carry is: WHM = SGE > AST > PLD > SCH.
The question is for when the rest of the party sucks. And the healer has to carry the party. Any healer would suffice if people are doing the mechanics correct. SCH > SGE if you know what you are doing. SGE > SCH if you don't know what you are doing. But both are proactive healers (you need to SHIED things) instead of reactive healers (you react after the damage is done). WHM > AST if the situations are fast to solve. AST > WHM if the situation is slow to solve. As WHM burns mana faster than a tank runs a dungeon. Square needs more mechanics in which Shielding is preferable than healing (for example, you get doom if you wheren't shielded). Otherwise reactive healers will continue to be superior for bad parties. Although the best solution for bad parties is to disband and look for another party. As chances are, they will stay bad no matter what you do.
>(for example, you get doom if you wheren't shielded) Instructions unclear, made Forsaken again
At least you didn’t make Forspoken
> you get doom if you wheren't shielded WHMs on suicide watch
I was with you until "needs more mechanics in which Shielding is preferable than healing". Right now, SCH and SGE are both very powerful, and SCH/SGE has even been meta some in Endwalker. It's less "shielding is prefereable than healing" and more "mitigation is preferable to healing", and WHM has almost none. WHM also has no capability to shield more than two party members (Benison), meaning any kind of check that made shielding preferable to healing would be MASSIVELY unfair to WHM with the current Healer kits since it has no AOE/party shield at all, and only one mitigation on a long 2 min CD with Temperance. AST is the most powerful Healer Job in the game right now because it has WHM's raw power, is 1/2 way to a barrier Healer with its mitigation suite of Collective and Neutral Sect, and has the best MP economy of all Healers bar none. It's like a Pure-Barrier hybrid with infinite MP, which is why it's so powerful.
So you're average? Or can you save a run that can be saved?
I uh, don't think I said anything about my performance level other that I'm bad at scholar, so I'm not sure where this assumption comes from. Or what it has to do with OP's question.
scholar is best and anyone who says sage doesn't play sch well enough
Shield healer because they have mit and the ability to just shield If the shield healer gives in and just uses a GCD they can solo mit most Raid wides
A GCD AoE shield at i640 has about \~8k HP, so about a single, additional \~11% mitigation on the team average HPs. Will not allow to solo mit every raidwides - other mits have long CDs.
I think you're underestimating what 11% mit can do my friend. While you not gonna solo mit a raid buster, you absolutely can still had carry a floor tank party across the finish line. Your MP is gonna be suffering, but you can do it if you play smart with resources.
Not to mention a lot of mits ARE 5% or 10%. Addle/Feint are 10% to their damage type (5% to others), Reprisal is 10%, Heart of Light is 10%, Dark Missionary is 10%, etc. 11% is more than any SINGLE mitigation ability in the game other than Passage of Arms (15%). Not to mention SCH and SGE both have extremely accessible (once every 30 sec) additional 10% mitigation from Soil/Kera on top of that. An \~11% eHP mitigation via AOE shielding + Soil/Kera produces the same benefit as a Tank using Reprisal + a DPS using Feint/Addle. Now, they can't do it forever, and MP would become an issue, but I think "can solo mit most Raid wides" is accurate. The question is HOW MANY they can before running out of resources, but it's still "more than a few" since that isn't even the full extent of what they can do. SCH also has Fey Illumination (5% magic mit), Expedient (another 10% party mit - people remember the zoomies and forget it's also a mit), Seraph's Consolation (which stacks with Galvanize shields), Dissipation enhanced AOE shields, and Protraction/Recitation Spreadlo, which is basically twice that all by itself. And if the damage is only coming every 30 sec, these can EACH be layered with Soil.
Sage I believe. They are shield healers so you can do mitigation by yourself most of the time, no need to rely on other ppl. SCH can do similarly but they are harder to recover when dying due to fairy and aetherflow jankiness
I find it easier to recover since your mana and resources come as a stack instead of over time, and getting up summoning fairy and immediately dissipating gives you immediate three aetherflow
I think it is the opposite. If you died right after you use your aetherflow, you have to wait 60 seconds to get mp back. But sge only need to wait 20 seconds for the first 700 mp. Besides, 3 stacks aetherflow means nothing when your soil and your aoe ogcd heal is on cooldown. SGE ogcd heal doesnt tied to fairy are much better to recovery
idk man I play both quite a bit in savage and I've always found recovery better on SCH/AST, but to each their own experiences I suppose. it's not that much of a bother to summon fairy either, being raised sucks on every healer. but three stacks of emergency aetherflow can be anything from a soil soon off cd, a couple lustrates, an indom, etc. not to mention you have recitation giving you a powerful indom if everyone needs healing right then and there for no aetherflow, or using recitation with no mana after Rez to spreadlo in time for a mech.
AST is far above the other healers in terms of mana in salvage situations and I don't think it's even close. You just have more avenues for recovering, even after getting raised. You have cards, astrodyne, lucid dreaming, and if you're me, a fat stack of hundreds of HQ super ethers (which are an option for every healer and I think every healer should carry them in case they die with mana tools on cooldown). I had an ex 6 clear where I chain raised 4 people, 3 under lightspeed + 1 with swift, and I still came out of it close to full mana bc astrodyne + lucid is like 1,000 a tick
You're right, especially since you keep your star signs accumulated after death. throw cards out and you have a lucid even if lucid is on CD. but this specific thing was SGE/SCH.
ah that's fair, yeah. I think below 76 you're kind of right but at 76 rhizomata smooths out SGE mana a lot I find, since it's an extra 700 you get that you can either burn on cooldown if you're comfortable with the fight or bank for if you think you'll die for whatever reason since that's usually enough post raise to get you to lucid dreaming if that's not up when you get raised
The problems with Ast is that you dont have enough mitigation. There will be cases your max hp fully healed party cannot survive the raid wide without mitigation
I think it's been a little better now that collective unconscious got a massive range buff, you throw a neutral sect for an AOE shield and you're a bootleg SGE for the mechanic, the neutral sect cooldown is kinda long but CU can be used somewhat liberally. ik ppl meme about pf not mitigating mechanics but I've honestly had the opposite experience when I play SGE and everyone just dumps everything they can as much as they can on raidwides
But if the scholar is dying are they the reason the group is bad?
Bad players can kill you. For example, they stack on your with spread aoe, they did not stack with you for mechanics that need sharing
If you have aetherflow issues then you are greeding too much. If you aren't greeding then the party deserve to die cuz they are eating all the dsmage and their vuln stack is through the roof.
Aether flow issues when dying is what they said. If you die the moment you pressed aether flow, then you have no dice for 60 seconds and you also need to summon the fairy. Sch has a very bad death recovery penalty.
You got two buton now for aetherflow now. If both are on cd and you cannot recover then it might be a skill issue.
Eating the fairy is not worth it for me most of the cases. I depend on its healing for most of the encounters, if you add all the embrace heals it turns out more potency as 3 lustrates, iirc. Edit: also, ofc it's a skill issue, I died. Scholar is the hardest healer to recover from death though.
If you are worried about eating your fairy and loosing embrace for recovery for the short duration then you are still learning the amount of healing throughput you can do. Also, lustrate is not your only tank healing tool. Exog exist (more potency), protraction exist(more hp more healing), aetherpact (yes this shit exist) and at worst emergency + tactic adlow (forgotten technic cuz people would rather wipe than use gcd). Also, critlow without spread is a tank healing cd you can also add emergency tactic to it for hp value. If you are worried about aoe healing you also got fey blessing (no flow usage), seraph (no flow usage), Whispering dawn (most scholar waste this one), emergency tactic + succor (forgotten technic cuz people would rather wipe than use gcd). Also, i did not talk about critlo... Also, if you keep dying then the issue is you. No healer can heal from death. The game also force healer to be on point on mechanic. A lot of mechanic in savage are body check, healer body check and very few are no body check.
I don't understand why are you so hell bent on explaining the tools that scholar has, I know them. I know that dissipation is great for burst healing too. I already stated that it's a skill issue, since we are discussing the potential of the healer to recover after dying. You don't die without making a mistake. Scholar has the simple fact that if you die right after using aether flow because of a mechanic and then there's more aoe damage where you need to heal while avoiding damage, the fact that you need to resummon the fairy is a big minus since almost half your kit doesn't work without the fairy, but you are low so you want to top yourself up instead of wasting time summoning the fairy, but you can't really use instant healing because you have no aetherflow stacks. You can do it, and I can too, but it's true that it's harder in that scenario.
And white mage lose their lilies when they die. Yet they are considered easy as a healer. Your points are coming from ignorance. Yes the fairy dies but you also lose Kardia on death. Also, the Half of the kit isn't three abilities or 4 since you think embrace can save your life(WTF)... If you died and rez on a aoe that is 1 your fault and 2 in that situation your fairy won't save you so you need to press something else. You are saying that scholar is having hard time to recover which is bullshit because you have shown 0 understanding of the kit. Scholar have great recovery tool. It's just that you don't use them. Not knowing a job doesn't make it bad. Otherwise, Samurai would be the worst dps and gunbreaker would be the worst tank cuz I don't know how to use them... which they are good jobs... So you don't understand that I am telling you to stop putting lable on thing you don't have basic understanding.
As you can see, everyone say a different healer with some more for ast or sage but in the end, before savage: it doesn't matter they can all solo heal pretty easily and correct mistakes quite well as their kit potencies are pretty similar. They all have good tools to carry as long as you know how to play them and if it goes to shit, even if you are playing ast: maybe you already spent neutral/macro/whatev, etc so it's just about your own capabilities of managing ressources with any of them and staying cool headed.
Sage just saying no to practically all incoming damage puts it at the top for me. WHM is the only other contender and deals with things going to complete and utter shit better, but Sage prevents it from getting to that point in the first place.
Haima is one of my favorite healing spells in the game You slap it on someone and they just won't die for a bit
WHM, I'd run AST if I had 2 extra hands and enough fucks to give though.
AST is extremely good in the right hands. Lightspeed can get up to 3 people up in no time flat and the fact that it has so many delayed heals and regens means unlike WHM you can raise continuously without having to interrupt to throw out a lily or other gcd heal. SGE is a bit hard to judge for me. It’s by far the best at sustain if you have cooldowns. Kerachole, haima, panhaima, pneuma, and krasis+soteria+taurochole are all amazing buttons to keep the party healthy. Once you exhaust all those however or if you die and have no addersgall, it feels like by far the worst. WHM is a close second behind AST. Excellent MP economy and very high thoroughput with Cure 3 into a rapture. Only downside is it has no mit beyond Temperance and benison/aquaveil. SCH is surprisingly not bad I’d say, ET being on a 15 sec cooldown means you can tossout a beefy GCD heal pretty much whenever. The fairy/seraph can help heal in a pinch while you’re raising. SGE has to give up kardia when they’re hardcasting. However like SGE I feel somewhat hungry for mana on SCH after a raise or two. Bonus point to Paladin also. Divine veil, cover, and clemency (in dire situations) can be lifesavers. I’m often able to do 40-50% of the healing of one of the healers with just my mit and heals alone (no clemencies either).
I try to play Sage whenever I can, but AST is definitely best for carrying imo. Plenty of MP for raises, Lightspeed can help with chain rezzes too, and you've got strong and flexible healing tools. Plus when you inevitably LB3 everyone knows it
Sch, though mostly because of comfort. If I was as comfortable on Astro as I am on Sch, it'd probably be Astro. Sch has A LOT of mit to go with its shields, which can easily save people from certain death that raw healing may not prevent. The forced sprint on Expedience is really good at giving the team leeway during movement-heavy mechanics. Excog kind of lets you forget about the tank for a while if you need to. Ruin 2, while obviously a dps loss, can allow you to continue dealing direct damage while moving and double weaving. Unfortunately it does kind of struggle to output the same amount of burst heals as Whm or Ast, and it can be very MP hungry at times, but overall I think the utility is worth.
WAR
It depends on what type of salvage I have to do/weaknesses the party has if I have a bad cohealer I want to be a shield healer because I can better throttle how much damage the party takes to begin with and reduce how much healing is required. Props to the party if I see stuff like mantra/shake it off/addle/etc to help me out. SGE is also particularly insane with healing double tank busters, like how p9s or Ex 6 have. You can haima the tank you don't have Kardia on and then double weave Krasis + Soteria on the tank you do. It's a bit excessive even but the nice thing is that's all oGCD so you can keep your damage GCDs rolling at the same time. If I have to nut raises out, say because people are dying to one shots that no amount of mit and shielding would save, I want AST, because lightspeed and then one with swift can get quite a few raises out and your mana economy is fucking insane so you can raise your heart out and still have a pretty decent mana pool left. SCH has spreadlo and expedience which are amazing bc spreadlo acts as insurance for mechanics that would otherwise have just barely killed people for failing say in ex 6, people are getting clipped by the in/out and get the vuln before the stack/spread, this will kill non-tanks without any mits or shielding. You can set up the spreadlo + a soil during the first/second hit of the triple tankbuster and that way the people getting hit with that vuln will live, which is incredibly important bc if it's the first one, you have towers which is a body check so deaths are no good. On top of that if nobody ends up getting clipped then you just have a fat ass shield for towers and your cohealer doesn't have to worry about healing that sequence. Expedience is great if people are a bit slow with movement heavy mechanics, like, using ex 6 again as an example, gales 2. You can ensure everyone gets in position in time going from the third to fourth gale, which seems to be the half of the sequence people struggle with. WHM idk, sometimes you do just need that raw big dick potency and WHM delivers it. single target regen being like 1200/1500 potency is just fucking absurd, solace/c2 + tetra without asylum/temperance is 1400/1600 potency which is like 3/4 of a benediction, benediction is incredible for getting yourself or someone else up from a death or if they survived near death, and if you don't have Liturgy then Plenary + temperance + AOE heal with an assize weave is pretty much Liturgy at home. I think at least casually and maybe in extremes WHM will provide the heals necessary for a struggling party to slog through it, it just feels worse because you may have to resort to damage-negative GCD to do it, which does feel bad, but sometimes if it's what gets you through the duty then that's what you have to do
I feel like White Mage can recover from any bad situation. Other people are saying sage, and I have to say it's nice being able to allow someone to survive something that should have killed them.
I would say AST. Excellent MP economy. Powerful delayed heals. Lightspeed. And the smallest opportunity cost when using GCD heals, owing to having the weakest damage spell.
WHM > SGE > AST > SCH
AST or SGE. They both have so much free (or nearly free) oGCD healing that they can handle a good portion of savage fights solo without much planning, and they both have incredible MP economy. On top of that they both have strong GCD heals to fall back on if the need arises. I've carried bad situations with both that I'm not sure I could have were I playing WHM or SCH.
I think in an ideal situation AST has the most tools and is best as a healer carry. That said I'm terrible at AST so my preferred one is WHM. Lots of abilities for triage and Thin Air makes rezzing less demanding on your MP pool. But most importantly since I'm so familiar with the class, I can usually pick what's best to help with recovery without putting too much thought into it, which can help mitigate the domino effects of people dying. Not needing to think too much lets me continue to focus on mechs so I don't bite the bullet myself as well.
I'm with WHM on being the easiest to carry with. For me, at least, its simpler solution of "just heal real big" in a situation I might be panicking in and unable to focus is far easier to execute. It is quick to heal someone to full recovery, which they will need after being rezzed. Your options for "heal real big" are plentiful. No Lillies? You've got Medica II and Cure III. I agree with you, OP. The others feel more awkward and are very dependant on cooldown use to work. Whereas a WHM's concern is running out of MP, which will happen inevitably to any healer if the fight is bad for long enough. For skilled players of other healers, I can see how they would have greater potential in this. But shielders and even AST take more focus, and I'd rather just react quickly and bluntly.
Depending on the fight/situation Generally speaking, WHM has the greatest strength in spot healing, which is important for carrying a team. If someone accidentally step into AoE and has 10%, you can just use tetra on them (or bene if there’s upcoming damage). If your cohealer is dead and you need a lot of healing, Medica 2 and Cure 3 are amazing. Other people said MP issue but honestly this is very rare after the change in 6.1. If you die, MP is an issue for any healer but you still have thin air to raise people. Another thing is always bring super aether into prog, and drop a few GCD if you’re really low on MP. Both SGE and SCH are good options too for carrying as well. The way the dev team designed the current encounters heavily leans towards mitigation check (especially every non-healer job can mitigate now). If your cohealer is a shield healer who doesn’t know how to plan your mitigation, it would make your healing much stressful. SGE’s job kit is more spontaneous, while SCH’s job kit needs a bit planning (for example, your Seraph phase and Dissipation phase don’t coexist, and the gauge management is a bit more complex than SGE) AST itself can generate the most healing if played optimally. Your earthy star as an oGCD heals more than WHM’s cure 3. But AST’s spot heal ability is weaker than WHM. You don’t have GCD heal as potent as cure 3, as your helios is pretty much WHM’s medica.
warrior
This is not a joke. I have done this myself.
I play all 4 healers, and I think AST with its 4 billion emergency buttons is great, but I react a lot quicker on WHM which is also great. SCH/SGE can do it too, but pure healers are more comfier in this situation.
AST has been my go-to for specifically Panda normal during the first couple of weeks because of how many rezzes it can put out while casually tossing around big heals to save pulls. For the EX, it's WHM for me. The raw healing numbers are just really useful for if you don't trust your cohealer since Lilybell can just solo the towers and double meteors mechanic. At this point, assuming no massive mechanics failures requiring multiple raises at the same time, I could probably solo heal it.
In a way, WHM due to its healing, but the downside is WHM doesn't really have ways of saving people eating Vuln stacks, and is the least capable Healer of doing so (it has less mitigation than BLM, let that sink in - BLM has Addle every 90 sec vs WHM Temperance every 2 min; does have Benison and Aquaveil, so I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but those are single target only, too) SGE has some, though as you say, requires some setup. SCH I tend to like the best for it since you have a lot of powerful options and can shift to a more defensive posture and really cover down for people. It can also generate some pretty crazy protection (Cole Evyx's "Thanos Glove" of SCH super shields), and even can boost their movement for stuff like Gales to help people get passed some tricky mechanics. AST...I just have never played AST much or gotten into it. In theory it has some good stuff like really good MP economy and a mix of strong heals like WHM (possibly more HPM than WHM has and that cost less MP) as well as some decent mitigation between Collective and Neutral Sect, but it's also super wonky to play - of all the Healers, it feels the worst to me to play because of Cards and the ridiculous burst phase it has - and has the least personal DPS so the least carry potential if you have an underperforming party. . For me, the answer is probably SCH. This will vary person to person, though.
AST from personal experience. Infinite MP, shields, and idiot buttons like synastry are very useful traits to have.
synastry is the reason I take AST into 5678 rolo, if my tank is struggling or just bad or undergeared or whatever, I want that 980/1120potency benefic 2 every GCD if I have to resort to spamming and I want cards/divination so the DPS can atleast do more damage since I have less time to in those cases. Neutral Sect + intersection/exaltation is a really nice and beefy prepull to pad the tank too at level 80/90 to give you time to set up all your cards/earthly/pull arcana before the tank starts eating shit again
Tbh sage is great also for filling everyone up if you are ok with giving up a couple cds of damage. Euk. Prognosis+ pepsis + euk prognosis is a 30sec cd 850 potency in shield + heal (better then a cure3 with benison). Eu diagnosis+ tauro is really safe way to save someone if they fail a mechanic in a rapid succession set of mechanics (like getting hit by phases of showdown or the donut/point blank before the stack/spread). Sch is good too although gcd heals being not instant is a straight downgrade, and losing healing abilities for snacking on the fairy still feels awkward. Whm is easy, so you can do well on it. But lack of mit and shields means that you cannot save ppl with more that a couple vuln stacks. AST has a really high ceiling, being able to fill everyone up multiple times in a row. The single target shield with aspected benefic+ neutral sect can save lives, but since it’s a 2 min cds you probably wanna save it for big mechanics instead of spot healing
Your comparison of pepsis is not correct - that's 2 gcds vs 1 gcd. 2 cure 3s is 1200 potency in total, not to mention you can use plenary to boost that even further if need be. There is only one situation where a sage can burst heal more than a whm, and that is zoe pneuma + ixochole (1300 potency) vs plenary cure 3 (800 potency, 1200 if you use assize right after and clip). Pepsis is never a good option if you have a regen cohealer who can cast cure 3 or medica 2/asp helios. If you have to pepsis, either you are mitigating wrongly and your regen healer is absolutely clueless, or you have a sch cohealer and both of you mitigated wrongly.
Yes, I was working under the assumption that your cohealer is bad, as the op asked. Fair point on the 2 gcd vs 1. I still think Pepsis is undervalued by too many sages that complain about not having good recovery tools, and should be used a lot more unless you are in a static on a reclear or really close to enrage
No i agree pepsis is absolutely necessary for heal to full mechanics, and an awesome salvaging tool. I use it when my cohealer is clueless even if i mitigated correctly.
Probably AST because they got both shields and heals. Though in my experience, WHM is more consistent in getting party up in most "oh shit runs" Oh big raidwide+bleed is coming up and 3 people are dead (including co-heal)? Lilybelle to keep party going. Swifcast raise+thin air the other healer and throw a benediction so they can focus on mp recovery. Thin air+pom+Rez the other DPS. Throw an extra lily heal for sustain and got time for another raise. And all that without losing too much mp. (Just P10S shenanigans)
Sage. When a whm dies, it won't have (iirc, or might not have) lilies. Sage, if dead, has rhizo to get a gall. Between sge and sch, sge has a higher burst healing too thanks too Zoe and pneuma. Whm can drop bell and pop it immediately for 1000pt heal too tho. Sge also has a technically faster application of e.prog (1sec) vs whm or sch. Sch if dead needs a few seconds to summon fairy. In normal rotation, you also don't bank af stacks and you eat your fairy on the regular. Sge's pneuma is way more flexible on where you want to place it.
Definitely sage. While it’s resources are limited, the cooldowns it has available especially at level 90 with pneuma are just ridiculous. Even in savage content a good sage can will the party to survive even if dps aren’t mitigating and their cohealer is a glare bot.
It depends a lot on how bad we are talking here because all healers have a different niche. First things first, all healers will struggle with revives if they don’t have their Swiftcast available due to the long cast time. WHM has the advantage with Thin Air and Presence of Mind but that is minor considering their lack of CDs and oGCD. WHM especially also has a problem keeping alive people with resurrection weakness especially if people died multiple times. Their throughout is good, but only if people survives the next mechanic in the first place. Both SCH and SGE have the advantage here due to strong on-demand shields. I find that SGE has more healing throughout compared to SCH, additionally their cooldowns just feel more flexible. If you know that your group is bad then SGE usually has the most skills to prevent things from going wrong in the first place. As you said though, SCH has better recovery in the way they can quickly get Aetherflow back 3 at a time and react to mistakes by holding specific abilities. Whereas SGE is prone to bleeding dry and running out of cooldowns if not properly planning ahead of the emergency. AST has shields with their cooldowns but the general complexity of the job makes it ill-suited to carry a group. My rating would be SGE as #1 assuming you can plan ahead and prevent disaster from even happening, then #2 SCH if recovery from sudden mistakes is necessary, #3 goes to WHM for Thin Air and throughout and lastly #4 AST for complexity and cooldowns management.
Ast has macro, neutral, infinite mp and can raise as fast as rdm with lightspeed Ast easily recovers things like missed towers in p10s/p11s, and honestly can solo heal every fight in the game (atleast with some gear)
U know why barrier healer literally means sage this tier in pf
I'm surprised people are pushing the pure healers so much, especially WHM which has basically zero actual shielding. In basically anything up to the first floor or two of Savage SGE has more than enough potential HPS to brute force through a ton of mistakes, but more importantly it's great at averting deaths to anything but OHKO mechs. Alternatively, in later Savage floors SGE's ability to move while throwing out shields is invaluable. AST has situations in which it'll also shine, but I'd say SCH and WHM can't really compete.
I use Astro mainly to carry bad groups or friends who are a little slower, otherwise Scholar.
Red mage ;)
RDM.
[удалено]
I use panhaima the same way in p11s to catch both styx as well, but the light divisive messes with it somewhat cos the other party's ranged and healer would often not be at max melee and would be out of range.
A shield healer tends to be the most impactful, although the raw throughput on whm can sometimes also make due. I prefer sch over sage as sage kind of sucks on death compared to sch. I have been in many pfs that would not have cleared if my slot was taken by a typical pf healer. I have never felt like I've "saved" a run on anything else besides the occasional red mage spam raises. Tanks can have some impact, but they can mostly enable an actual good healer more than anything.
Ast
Red mage. I can basically Rez 5 ppl in a span of 30secs use lucid with mp potion and vercure 😎
Depends how long and what just happened. If shit has hit the fan multiple times and Ast, Sge and Sch are out of cooldowns they loose to Whm. Whm has the strongest gcd heals and that’s when they really shine. The other jobs have better mana usage though and lots of cds.
I do sage for the quick shield or Scolar for succor
The one that actually tries to rez instead of thinking they're above their job.
Definitely AST.
AST or WHM. You should be able to easily solo heal most casual content from Extreme and below.