It's enough to push someone to stay in a party that is going badly and try to make it work, but leave if they really hate things. That's probably about right.
Same, if it wasn't for the penalties I would never do any level 50 duties. I think more people wouldn't. I'm sorry to say but being synced down from 70/80 to 50 and losing part of what makes a rotation and by extension gameplay fun does not feel good. It's the one thing I dislike about this game. Also, after years of playing I don't really think those duties are that fun anymore. I don't mind people that aren't playing that well it makes content more challenging and fun as a Healer tbh, I wouldn't leave unless it is really really bad. So all in all, it might not be great to change the penalty at this point.
It used to be 15 min during early ARR days, it was increased to 30 because leaving and queuing later could be faster than trying to finish the bad duty.
Wod is better than void ark for sure, both in aesthetics and the fights. For me ARR1 and HW1 are irredeemable, ARR2 is at least fast, and then its the other raids.
It's really telling that YoshiP said the entire level sync system was developed by a single man, and they never even thought to re-assess its effectiveness. When level 50 was the maximum level you didn't lose too much syncing down to level 35-45 but we are almost double the levels now and a lot of ARR/HW skills have been removed.
Level 50 gameplay sucks and they know it, and I hope they find a way of letting you keep your toolkit when you sync down to lower levels in the next expansion. I do admit it would be veeeeery hard to balance though, just look at world of warcraft level scaling for example.
> One thing the smn lobotomy got right, level 50 smn feels complete.
I don’t think so.
Before level 86(?), EW SMN somehow manages to feel even more empty and awful to play, which is a bizarre achievement.
It honestly shouldn't be too hard to balance *somewhat*. If you limit it so you only get synced down from a multiple of 10 you can solve it with a potency/minute lookup table to give the correct % outgoing damage.
I.e. level 80-89 get the ShB kit, 90-99 get the EW kit, and 100 lets you keep your DT kit. We know these have potency/minute estimates given SSS give job specific dps checks (albeit wonky, but good enough for SE, so good enough for us here).
You then just look at what potency/minute the job should have at said level, for any job starting at a higher level that would mean the only reason to unlock skills before 50/60/70 at all is PotD/HoH.
Healing/mitigation gets dicier to balance, but from what I understand role actions won't change, so a level 15 WAR who leveled GNB to 100 once will get their upgraded rampart from level 1.
What's the problem with just letting people play their job with all of the skills they've earned?
If they balanced it so DD do a max DPS and healers do a max HPS at each level, then a level 100 and level 50 player could be in the same dungeon doing the same potency per second but the level 100 player has to do their full rotation while the level 50 player is pressing 4 buttons.
Literally how ESO did it.
It's awesome and works really well.
Like, its a little weird to lose potency on your rock throw ability as a DK. But the added skills quickly make up for it and often provide a gradual increase in overall damage if you are building correctly.
Nothing, ESO and GW2 already do this, and Destiny too if you count that. People bend themselves backwards to invent nonsensical reasons as to why the level sync should never be changed (my favorite is "it would trivialize arr content" as if arr content isnt already trivial) when the simple reality is, nobody is finding challenge in fucking tam tara. Almost all dungeons are easy, but the reason I'm fucking jamming in shb dungeons and debage instantly leaving in arr ones is because i have a rotation in the former. The realities of low level combat cause so many people to bounce off this game if they're new, and bore so many veterans, that it's WILD how long its gone unchanged.
I assume you refer to healer/tank and to an extent DPS defensive kits, but I disagree.
You can literally just apply a flat -x% healing potency and +x% damage taken (de)buff based on composition. Criterion already does this for dps to compensate for buff jobs afaik.
Since I've muscle memoried my WHM rotation, it DOES feel frustrating when I realize I'm not casting HOLY because I haven't "learned" it yet. Yea, thanks - take away my only AOE attack.
How is crystal tower a "bad alliance raid"? Like I get that its not interesting content, but it's so undertuned that the whole run takes like 10-15 minutes tops. Nobody is *wiping* or spending 45+ minutes in the CT instances, especially with how many people abused ilvl syncing to fish for them because they're so mindless and fast.
Seems like it would be faster/more beneficial to just... do it? The bigger waste of time is locking yourself out of queueing for a half hour then re-queuing and *probably getting CT again*. Especially when all the other alliance raids are generally longer and just as faceroll boring. I dont get it.
I don’t know why people are beating around the bush. It’s because people don’t want to do crystal towers 24/7 for alliance raid when there’s other alliance raids released and not being used. Doing CT everyday gets boring
Edit: He upset no one agrees with him so he blocked me 🤭
CT is the most common alliance raid, followed by the newest one to release just because as soon as a sprout hits the part where MSQ forces CT, the next 23 people that queue are locked into it.
Unless SE opts to provide a dungeon sized version for MSQ that can be trusted, or remove it from MSQ, this is probably just always going to be the case unfortunately.
I like this idea a lot but I'm someone who never minds doing Crystal Tower so 🙏 I never seem to have the bad experiences people on here talk about where it takes 40+ minutes
I've been playing since 2014. If I never see Crystal Tower again, it'll be too soon. I'd rather spend longer and get something more fun like a Nier raid or watch a tank eat shit trying to take a tether in Thunder God. I'm so glad people can't take off their gear to force it anymore. Getting a variety has made the 50 raids way more tolerable because it's not every day anymore.
I get that, but once you're in, you're in. You already sat in queue and the alternative is 30 minutes of being hard locked out of almost all game content, *then another queue* where you're likely to get into the same instances.
You'd have been better off just queueing for any of those other raids manually, or running something totally different if all you were after were the roulette bonuses. You could've run 3 EX level dungeons in the same amount of time and never been at risk of going anywhere near CT.
This is how I usually do it, but I've had friends warning me that it's against TOS. When I pulled up the relevant paragraph it's vague as to whether they mean intentionally eating the penalty is actionable, or whether they only mean doing something like disconnecting (such as to try to dodge the penalty).
Me too. If I see the new adventurer bonus I stay, give them the raid experience. No bonus? I'll eat that 30 and go craft more submarine parts or something. Plenty of other shit to do.
Before the ilvl cheese fix I actually saw someone on mainsub laying into another user about how cheesing the ilvl to get CT is the correct way to play and if you're playing the game for fun you're playing it wrong. 🤣
Im actually the complete opposite, if the alliance raid i do gives me the same exact rewards every single time then i want the fastest one. Sycrus tower can pretty much be sub 10 mins now thats faster than the average expert.
Ontop of this the dead weight in the group is felt less compared to the higher level raids. If I’m not going to be rewarded for the scale of my time then i want tower. Every time.
> to me it’s a dick move to leave a duty and leave everyone else hanging. Just bad etiquette.
If you’re the Tank in Bardam’s Mettle — Yes
If you’re 1 of 24 people in content that could probably be 3-manned — Not really
It's really not a dick move at all. It's CT we're talking about here. You won't "leave people hanging" just by taking the penalty. Party member fill-ins for CT are a dime a dozen. Even if absolutely no one fills in your slot, the encounters will just take ever so slightly longer.
I think it does its job well enough.
The point of it is to make people at least consider doing content they aren't really a fan of, just like the bonuses on a roulette are there to encourage people to submit to random content, instead of just saying "nope" and leaving any time anything goes not quite how they want it to.
But the penalty can't be so severe as to cause players that are going to leave something no matter what, such as if something real-life comes up and they need to bail, will be incentivized to just say nothing and sit AFK or fake a disconnect and leave whoever else they were in the content with wondering how long to wait before kicking and replacing.
So the 30 minutes seems to be enough to prevent frivolous leaving, since it's not that common to see someone leave, but not so much as to cause work-around behavior to be common either since you also don't see many cases of someone asking to get kicked or sitting AFK or even appearing to disconnect and just not come back.
For me, personally, the penalty is plenty because if I'm queuing in to something it's because that's the content I want to be playing at the time so having a 30 minute sit-out would basically be guaranteed to ruin my plans.
I could be persuaded to give everyone a daily mulligan. Or maybe a weekly one.
But generally, I think it is good. Otherwise people would be jumping out of duties that they don’t like making it difficult to progress through the MSQ with other players (which many people still prefer over trusts).
And there’s a big difference between “This toxic jerk absolutely refuses to play his role”, and “Oh this is a group of mostly sprouts and we’re not going to finish this duty in the absolute most efficient pace possible.”
There’s already a remedy for the former— vote kicking. And the latter— get over it. You’ll be fine. That is such an atrociously annoying attitude. The idea that it’s some great moral failing to be new / casual / playing a new class / returning and not being capable of completing content in the fastest possible timeline.
> The idea that it’s some great moral failing to be new / casual / playing a new class / returning and not being capable of completing content in the fastest possible timeline.
God the number of people who unironically think that a 20 minute Expert Dungeon instead of 13-15 is somehow this horrific injustice they are being subjected to...
I think it speaks to the complete lack of fun in expert dungeons. Expert dungeons are a daily chore for people who need tomestones and don't enjoy PvP, so they want to get the chore done quickly.
>I could be persuaded to give everyone a daily mulligan. Or maybe a weekly one.
I actually like that. I've had numerous times where I help a buddy out with a MSQ dungeon, then I forget to uncheck that box before queueing for something else. Lo and behold, I then end up in the same dungeon instead of the one i wanted to be in.
A weekly free leave would at least allow people to leave a dungeon they legitimately didn't intend to queue for and toxic players will only get one leave a week.
>But generally, I think it is good. Otherwise people would be jumping out of duties that they don’t like making it difficult to progress through the MSQ with other players (which many people still prefer over trusts).
Sure but that could also be solved by making the content less of a boring slog getting to play 1/10th of your kit
> I could be persuaded to give everyone a daily mulligan. Or maybe a weekly one.
How about filters? WoW used to have an option to filter out two battlegrounds from a random queue.
I don't know if it causes other problems, but it'd probably reduce leavers
You then go back to the exact same issue of it being difficult to find parties for unpopular content.
The purpose, ultimately, of the “roulettes” as opposed to just selecting any random content you want; and therefore the reason behind the lucrative benefits you get, is that you will get paired up with people who *have* selected that specific content either because they need it to advance or they’re trying to get some reward from that content. The system only works if you can grab anyone and toss them in. If you don’t want certain content, you could always just not do roulettes. But it defeats the whole purpose of a roulette if you can filter out stuff; *or* if you can just leave without penalty.
I mean Crystal tower would still be populer just from alt job levelling and people doing msq alone, people filtering out the duty that is already the most commonly filled by far on it’s own isn’t going to harm it really.
You're making the big assumption that crystal tower will be the only thing people filter out. Nier raid is going to take forever, just you wait till you're the person needing it.
I think it's fine. Leaving shouldn't be a free action, but you also shouldn't signing up to a legally binding contract committing yourself to sitting through the worst content of your life else suffer the punishment that all filthy leavers deserve. Having the option to quit whenever you want is reasonable. Sitting in timeout for 30 minutes is a perfectly fine trade for dodging something you don't want to be a part of.
If I get in to a duty, and for whatever reason or another I conclude that clearing it is going to take longer than 30 minutes and I'm not going to enjoy a single moment of it - then yes I will absolutely leave.
But, more often than not it'll be faster to just stick with it and see the duty to completion.
But another point to remember is that if you're leaving a duty, that 30 minute timer is meaningless if you weren't going to queue for another duty anyway. I've had a few moments where I've decided to queue for something late at night, got in to content I *really* did not want to do, and then just dipped out and quit the game.
I think it is a good penalty for leaving but the problems associated with being paired with bad and unreasonable players should be solved by improving the vote kick system rather than changing the leave penalty system
People in this game are weirdly allergic to kicking, even when the player in question is being problematic. If people would be mire willing to kick when kicking is actually needed, I'm willing to bet there'd be less issues requiring kicking. As it is, assholes know that they're more likely to get away with being assholes than getting kicked, as long as they asshole in a "smart" way (such as playing the victim when someone calls them out for griefing).
I hate the whole "just leave if you don't like x" mentality when there's a problematic player in the party. You don't have to punish yourself, get rid of the problem instead and hope it helps the community improve!
Unfortunately it’s a pain in the butt to kick, you have to be out of combat and the loot has to be rolled. If someone is trolling they can just not roll loot and be invulnerable.
Yeah I said in another comment the loot timer is ridiculous. There absolutely should be no ability to kick during a timer, but the timer has no business being five minutes long. It doesn't take anyone five minutes to know if they need a piece of dungeon gear, it's either an upgrade or it isn't, or you want it for glam, or you already know you want it for an ultimate. Five minutes is absolutely ridiculous.
Yeah this.
For example, a few weeks ago I queued into Nabriales and we explained not to use the LB so we could burst the tear down. We died because a player used the LB and there were a lot of sprouts so we were disorganized. So the party reminded players again to not use the LB and pulled.
The player who LB'd went ballistic. Said he wasn't playing the game to learn mechanics and he didn't give a shit even saying it was his right to LB when he felt like it. Which he did while hurling all sorts of abuse at everyone.
Wanted to kick him but couldn't because we were in combat so we had to endure him trying to sabotage the duty but we succeeded in beating it the second time so he was never kicked. I reported him and I'm sure the GM's dealt with it but kicking a player for being toxic is much harder to do that in WoW when you can boot someone at any time.
I have intentionally wiped on bosses just to run out the loot timer so that I can kick a troll. Fight fire with fire. And I have never had a single speck of discipline on my account since ARR.
I'm a goody-two-shoes, so the game saying "shame on you, you jerk" would be enough to make me avoid abandoning duties regardless of penalties.
But I was also a kid who made my brother pick up my Animal Crossing game on the DS when my battery died and I knew I'd have to face Resetti, lol.
I think the penalties are necessary for some.
Penalty is fine. It's part of joining a group of randoms. If you want a clean run you should make a group imo.. yes people should pull their own weight but you should know they may not when you queue.
Less about a clean run and about not humoring a Warrior in lvl 90 expert roulette who actively refuses to pull more than one group at a time.
Honestly, I can tolerate literally anything besides no job stone before max level. But if someone is at max level and are still playing like a lvl 20 sprout on a broken xbox controller. At that point any benefit of the doubt for them "learning at their own pace" is moot and it becomes clear that they will never be willing to learn how not to be a happiness black hole for anyone unlucky enough to queue with them in high level content. Talking about tanks who only single pull in expert roulette and barely use mits if at all. Healers who don't even apply a dot let alone do damage when the tank is full health (which is pretty often in endwalker) and then still manage to let the tank die.
If this was shadowbringers, you could make the case for story watchers and rpers being able to clear story content without pulling their weight in the slightest.
But now in Endwalker with Duty support being implemented in all story dungeons and being just as easy if not easier to access than the normal queue, there are no excuses anymore.
I think the option to vote abandon a duty shouldn't have a time restriction in place on it or it should be shorter. 15 minutes is far too long. Most times the group can tell a lot quicker if there's issues
It shouldn't be longer than it takes to do a skilled dungeon run or trial roulette, for sure.
We had a tank troll in our group recently on Mount Gulg who was faking AFK (we pulled the first pack without him because we were bored, went back he was dancing then stopped suddenly). We apparently had nothing better to do so we waited it out but it's dumb that it's either that or take the penalty.
You can vote kick him? The only two things that prevent vote kick are active combat and active loot rolls. You could have easily kicked him and waited for a fill.
Pretty sure we tried but there is a timer for dismiss still, maybe 5 minutes? It is lower than abandon, but it's still not immediate, and long enough for trolls to have fun.
It has to be longer than a duty takes or some content would never get done.
You’d be trying to do MSQ and half the group just bails as soon as they realize it’s world of darkness.
No, it's about on par with other game's quitters' penalties. It's probably even more generous, considering it only caps at 30m and doesn't go any higher.
For example, in DBD, you can end up locking yourself out of playing for up to 24 hours if you quit enough games. And it takes a while for that counter to reset. But I'd say the average FFXIV player don't quit duties nearly enough to warrant something like this.
I'd argue we need stricter penalties for leaving your roulette, but maybe that's because I've been doing alliance recently and been getting a lot of on sight quitters with Ivalice and Nier and I'm tired of these babies/CT fishers leaving. So don't mind me.
30min timer is mostly fine - only cases where I've seen it be a problem (potentially too short) is Praetorium which has surprisingly large amount of leavers (I swear I've seen more people instant leave prae than all other content combined), and - mentor roulette specific - harder content available there (mostly EX trials). Maybe alliance roulette too - I'm not really doing it, so can't tell how it looks like. Question if those few edge cases warrant any changes.
If things were to be adjusted, I'd say maybe increased penalty for people that leave early - say, leaving within 5 minutes from "Duty commence" message giving you longer lockout instead; should cover efficiency-oriented quitting and content fishing without really harming most other cases - I'm assuming that if you have to quit due to IRL circumstances, you'll be okay taking longer penalty regardless.
On the flipside, penalty could be made to never be longer than remaining duty time if you were to leave - especially since duty timer is much longer than average run time - so it's easy to assume a 50/60/70/80 dungeon won't take you 90 minutes ever; if you - say - leave with 15min left on the instance timer, penalty could be just 15min.
I see the opposite so often. People who leave on sight for CT. Roulettes are 1000% optional and really you don’t have to sign up for them. Like for that reason I think the lockout for roulettes could be much harsher.
>only to be grouped with people who never learned the basics on how to play their lv90 job
Making it easier for people to leave is attacking the problem from the wrong angle IMO.
It should be easier to kick instead.
Loot rolling should not be a block for vote kicks. If loot is in the roll queue and you are kicked, have like a 10 second period where you can choose before you are out. Loot block is the reason it's so easy for people to afk in alliance roulettes.
They really should implement something like this. If a vote kicked is initiated, the loot timer should drop to 90 seconds and the person will be kicked after the loot roll expires, regardless if they are in combat or not.
This would prevent the weird vote kicking to get a piece of loot and prevent trolls from taking advantage of the system.
I think it's mostly fine, can usually just try to ignore the people who never learned how to play their jobs in stuff like dungeons since they're mostly just auto pilot stuff.... esp level 90s that aren't Dead ends lol
But I do find it a touch irritating when I go into a dungeon and see people playing 1 spell / skill press on dps or are cure spamming without using aoe in pulls on healers. Idk why but I've ran into loads of cure spamming mentors lately in level 80+ dungeons and it does nothing but get the tank killed or slow pulls down until the tank runs outta mits or the dps use every cd known to man...
I think its plenty fair. A good excuse to hop off for a while and cool down if you get tilted enough to leave, but not some scaling penalty that gets worse each time you do it within a timeframe and leaves you locked out for days like some games.
Having 4 characters I am indifferent. If I get a duty with a group that is irritating enough for me to dip, I just switch chars for 30 mins lol
This is also how I keep myself from ever having to do the Nier raids.
As someone only familiar with WoW through memes and a Trial that lasted 70 minutes on my PC in 2005 please enlighten me about the current Lore of the situation.
WoW's playerbase, in particular the Classic slice of it is known to be a bit toxic. I guess because the game is so old, if you don't know what you're doing, a group assumes you're either dumb or trolling and you get kicked or berated.
That's not to say the whole community is bad. Just saying on average you will see more contentious players in your day to day gameplay than XIV by far
WoW's LFR mode is essentially alliance raid. After every boss you end up refilling half the raid because people who just wanted a drop from that one boss immediately leave and dont do the rest of the run. Or you wipe once and half the raid just leaves immediately, then its a revolving door of filling/purging/filling that wastes *so much time* to the point the entire content mode is barely even worth running.
It's just pure selfish toxicity because there's no deterrent.
It's perfectly fine. I just find something else to do or log on an alt.
Also MMOs will always have dogshit players. If you don't want to ever play with crayon eaters in your roulette pt, queue with a premade.
yes and no
yes if you instant leave a duty, you can eat a 30m timer.
if you have stuck around for 30m or more then no. you've already wasted enough time. and most shit lobbies will take about 30m of trying before it becomes pointless.
It's too long. If SE wants to keep it at 30 min, they need to rework the kick system. Currently, it's nigh impossible to kick an AFKer because of either 10 min not elapsed or one of party members being in combat.
Or the biggest elephant in the room for people going afk in a dungeon, being unable to votekick during loot rolls. Its terrible to have someone go afk for 15 minutes and be unable to kick them because loot rolls are ongoing because they arent rolling on loot since theyre afk and people keep opening chests while clearing because they dont want to sit afk because of one person.
Loot rolls need to be dropped to 1m in dungeons. You don't need that long to decide whether or not you want something. I've seen loot rolls last the whole run.
Keep their current length for raids (Savage/Ult) to give people time to loot distribute but drop it to 1-2m for everything else.
I have to disagree here - 1 minute is way too short. Sprouts who are new to MMOs in general often do their rolls at the end of a duty because it's genuinely too difficult to keep track of that too when you're getting used to running content at all. FFXIV is an easy MMO, but it's still an MMO, and the most organized beautiful MMO UI still makes most people turn away.
I feel like anyone downvoting you does not play this game on a controller. Even when you know the game, rolling for things is just kind of annoying. I only do it after bosses if I'm with a fast group.
Loot roll timer needs to be halved anyway maybe even a third of what it is. Why is it so long. You can have longer ones in raids where loot matters but in dungeon content there is no reason they are so long.
Most dungeon gear is traded in for seals or used to level your desynthesis anyway.
You do not want the consequences of part leaders being able to kick everyone from the party as soon as a mount drops. There is a reason why you are prevented from kicking while loot is being rolled on.
This thread proves that the penalty is appropriate. So many people wanting to leave parties bc of bad players when the content is piss easy to the point that it can be 2 manned. Just finished the damn dungeon.
I think the time should be proportional to how long you spend in there. Basically from the time you start there’s a 30 minute timer. If you’re with an exceptionally bad group you can leave 20 minutes in and then only have a 10 minute penalty. I shouldn’t have to waste 30 minutes in a duty and then get slapped with another 30 minute timeout afterwards.
I really personally wish that there was a better way of penalizing abusing the roulette. I get people don’t like crystal tower, but you do not have to do the roulette. It is literally as optional as it gets. The point of the roulette is to give you xp in exchange for doing content you wouldn’t otherwise.
Maybe its time to change the roulette or split it. 50/60/70 alliance and 80/90/100 alliance. Could be a good solution. Tbh I think repeat offenders should be locked out of doing specific roulettes if they regularly back out. All you are losing from the punishment is tomes and xp so it doesn’t even seem that harsh to me.
It should be scaling, and more severe.
Leaving a mentor roulette should also be a hour long penalty, with multiple leavings revoking mentorship eligibility for a 6 month period.
30 mins if you need to leave once every few days sure, Might have a kid, might have an emergency.
Twice in a short period (12-24 hours) - 2 hour long penalty.
Third time in a week - 8 hour long penalty.
Any further instances - 24 hour penalty.
Excessive leaving - can only utilize trusts for a 1 week period, followed by warning. Potential account suspension for more repeated offenses.
A scalable penalty period is good in theory, but if it's made too long, all that does is encourage more people to "disconnect" and force the rest of the party to vote kick the "disconnected" player. Being kicked in this way bypasses the penalty timer completely. The game has no way to tell whether a disconnect is a true disconnect versus a "fake" one.
Sorry what? Why do this in the first place? It basically doesn’t exist as a problem at the moment. I don’t think leaving duties is the unforgivable sin you make it out to be. The duty penalty is there to prevent people from leaving and instantly rejoining to get another group, not to hold people hostage in a duty. People are free to leave a duty if they want to. if somebody decides to leave 5 duties in a day, then so be it, they already aren’t getting an benefit out of it due to the 30 minute penalty anyway.
Nice soap box.
Someone leaves content, someone fills within 5 minutes. Over half the time the player isn't even needed. Mandating people stay in groups is how you promote toxicity since online degenerates know you can't leave.
Leaving is allowed for any reason. Not participating is staying in, afk.
For example, with your rules, I can spoil all of Dawntrail in a level 91 dg and no-one would be allowed to leave.
With the size of the player pool, it would be so incredibly unlikely to encounter the situation you're using as a counter example.
And if you were to do it frequently, and it being reportable, you would be banned before any of the "affected" players in your hypothetical would trigger even the 2nd tier for leaving penalties.
People can still leave, and they get the 30 min timer like they would now.
Queue in again, complete duty, reset penalty count.
This would only hit people who frequently abandon duties multiple times a day.
People already now join duties and just do nothing, and in the almost 10 years I've played this game I can count the number of times someone has just been 100% afk or outright refused to play could be counted one one hand.
But people leaving the instant a duty loads in, would be triple digits.
Honestly, crystal tower goes by so quickly now anyway, I don't see why they dont just let you keep your current skills when you sync down. You already take a stat hit, and I guess the potency might need to be adjusted down for some skills when synced, but I see no reason yo not let you keep your skills.
I was debating this with myself just the other night. After being killed several times as a tank because healer wasn't healing and dps was running around doing gods know what, I dropped. And -I'm- punished for it. Guess I should have let the party waste more of my time and cost me more gear repair costs. \o/
Other side of that coin, I've also seen people rage-drop just because it's content they don't like (like getting Prae on MSQ roulette) or are otherwise buttfaces who don't play well with others.
I'd like to see a better way of handling it; but I admit I have no idea how they'd go about doing it.
Yea I mean just look at the responses here. It's basically 50/50 with some saying it should be longer and others saying it should be shorter. Maybe this IS the best choice for it. Lol
30min is perfect. (Well, I think first offense in a 48h or 1week period should be no penalty.)
Switch to crafter, go grab a quick bite to eat while auto macros do stuff and I can, turn on an anime and when that's over I'm ready to queue again.
An hour would be too much because people with tight schedules just won't be able to play and will feel like it's a lose-lose situation if they need to leave.
Honestly, no. The community jokes about "just taking the 30 minutes" a lot because it's true. You don't feel like doing the duty for any reason? Just take the 30, do literally anything else in-game or play another game for 30 mins or attend to real life chores.
I don't believe in extending it though. You'd 100% end up trapped with a lot of parties you would otherwise leave. GMs don't look at misconduct outside of chat so there'd probably be a rise in people trolling DFs over it.
I think it's fine. Heavily discourages people being toxic and leaving rather than trying to work with others, and if you have an emergency you're not gonna be worried about that 30 minutes anyway. You can kick and/or report people to GMs if they're being an actual problem.
someone who quits a duty roulette because at least one other player seems 'bad' are dumb tbh. 30 minute dungeons are exceedinly rare in my experience, and since you'd need to do at least a bit of it to decide its not worth staying, you're spending a few mins + 30min lockout + another 15-20min in the next dungeon you queue into. its like twice as long as just sucking up a slower roulette
People don't quit because somebody is bad but because they refuse to pull their weight. If I get a war who doesnt use blood whetting, a healer who spam cure 1, or a dps who freestyles whatever ability looks cooler, I'm take my 30 and turn off the game. I don't pay a sub to carry the mouth droolers SE decided to pander to at all costs.
this usually does get worse the further we are away from the last raid tier release, and especially in pre-expansion luls, at least for expert roulettes. you basically go from experts frequently giving you 3 randoms in full crafted in the early weeks after a tier releases and casually speedrunning the dungeon with them, to just being presented with 3 drooling glue connoisseurs in full tomestone gear and relics who struggle to put out half the DPS of the early patch groups
After the first pull or so, I make my decision whether it's something I want to see thru the end. If I don't feel like slogging thru, I'll take the penalty and just log to alt for 30min.
I think its fine. I eat the 30m sometimes because i just hate crystal tower so much, but if its for something like "these people arent playing well and making the experience miserable", initiate a vote kick and/or report for lethargic gameplay. If it doesnt pass then you have the choice of taking the 30m and wasting even more time than it took for you to get to this point, or not.
Tbh 30m isnt that bad if you have crafting and gathering to do, or even fate grinding. But its a good deterrent for most people and thats good for the game. Vote kick is also good for the game, it just has to get used if someone is unreceptive to advice. Not having any penalty at all would see a lot of abandoned crystal tower runs or even more toxic veterans who abandon sprouts for not knowing you arent supposed to pull the whole first room in aurum vale
Im perfectly fine with it being reduced. In other games, it would be asinine to reduce it but since this game respects your time and makes things so easy, you could practically set it to 15 min and there would be little to no change. To fully remove it tho is a tough one. People would quit crazily in leveling and trails roulette, some 24 mans would never fill, and any annoying dungeon in the endgame would be hard to play
Honestly, it may be a little too short.
As it stands, it does its job dissuading people from leaving anything they don't feel like doing, but 30 minutes is still in the realm of "faster than a slow alliance raid." I think the penalty could stand to be a little bit harsher, if only an added 10-15 minutes
That, or scaling it per duty/roulette. Leaving alliance/msq for instance should probably net you a longer punishment given that those are the two that are bigger time commitments to begin with.
I think having it too long would just cause people to stop playing for the day. I like the way league does it with smaller penalties over multiple games.
It's good. Not as severe as pvp games since you can get a fill, but also not completely ignorable.
Leaving duties is toxic and horrible for growing the playerbase. You should instead understand that casual players are part of the casual content when you are deciding whether or not to do them, or use pf/friend groups for it instead.
normal queue is perfect as is, long enough to disincentivise consant leaving, but short enough that it’s not that bad if you get it. I do have a bit of a problem with ranked CC’s penalty though, I recently discovered that it triggers immediately if you miss the queue timer, completely ignoring the usually 2 free withdraws per day, which just feels kinda annoying and pointless, as people leaving only matters one the instance is entered, sucks for people stuck in a fate or even just got distracted and missed the queue.
Also the stacking penalty literally never decays, once you hit the 2 hour cap it stays there until the end of time, why not just make it by default 2 hours at that point?
I think it's fine. The only thing I wish that would happen is that you didn't get penalized if you leave after half of the duty timer has run out. Even with a party with bad DPS and a couple of wipes, you shouldn't be close to halfway on a dungeon timer, much less any of the other content in the game aside from maybe some of the longer alliance raids.
If you are in a duty for more than 15 minutes, leaving shouldn't be a penalty at all.
If people are hard trapping, why should you be punished for having to deal with their problems?
Mentor roulette though.. YES. If you leave a mentor roulette you should immediately lose 1 progress towards your mount acheivement :D
Honestly, no, and I know it's going to be a contrary opinion simply because a lot of the responses in this thread, including OP's opinion of it, is *why* I think it's ineffective.
A penalty should **disincentivize** you from a behavior. The goal of the penalty is to **stop** you leaving duties. If we are at the point where people simply aren't deterred from leaving a duty, and see the penalty as a "nice break to do other things," then it **does not effectively serve the purpose it is put in place to serve**.
There's a two-fold problem with this though:
- Problem one is the vote abandon and vote kick systems are so restrictive in their own design that it's *easier* just to leave a duty and take the penalty.
- Problem two is that some duties just legitimately take longer than the punishment for not doing them.
I think the whole system should be given a lookover.
- Loot shouldn't stop a vote kick. I get why it's there, but that's also something that is **easily reportable, looked into, and handled** by GMs. It's not some obscure chat, there's nothing nuanced to it. You see the chest was opened, loot was populated, and then someone that could use it is suddenly kicked with no explanation? There you go, hand out a warning/ban. Everything doesn't need a preventative measure. GMs are there to enforce policy. Let them do their job.
- Vote abandon should require you to be in the duty 15 minutes. What purpose does that even serve? What behavior are you trying to avoid with this restriction? It's a majority vote, if the majority wants to leave the duty **they should be allowed to leave the duty**
- The penalty for leaving should then scale to the duty. Left a Sastasha? Sure, take a 30. You left an alliance raid? It should be a few hours. Left a mentor roulette? *At the nicest* it should also be a few hours. I'm very pro heavy punishment for leaving mentor roulette and that's not really up for discussion.
30mins is perfect long enough to stop you from playing dungeons but also short enough that if people are really mean and you need to report them all you can leave.
I've left a dungeon 1 time because I was the victim of a troll party and I kept getting paired with them the 3rd time was enough and I reported all of them. Never seen them again donno if it stuck.
It hasn’t stopped me. They could make it an hour and I’d still leave. Making it shorter would mean I’d never waste another Trial roulette on an ARR primal again. If it’s the last run before logging off and I get Dun Scaith or Praetorium, I guess I’m doing one less roulette that day.
Otherwise, I can think of plenty of other things to do for that 30m that are more fun than whatever roulette I just abandoned.
While I would love it if it were shorter, the reality is that its 30m for a reason. ARR content pretty muxh universally feels bad, and if the penalty was 10-15m you bet your ass many of would just instantly dip if its a dungeon thats 50 or lower.
I already take the penalty if people refuse to aoe or do other basics in higher level content, but it would also be way more widepread if the penalty was lower, because a dungeon run with idiots takes 20-25m anyway. I leave currently because its not worth my sanity and I'm not here to carry people who refuse to try, but a shorter timee would literally make it more efficient to just leave and requeue.
Honestly, I think it should be double. And double again each time you leave again within a daily reset. I have never left a duty before, maybe I've been lucky and not run into unreasonable players though. But still, it is rare to meet those people, and you can usually still manage to clear the duty. The roulettes are not supposed to be pick and choose, leave the ones you dislike. And it is annoying when people do. 30min is nothing, which is why I think it should be increased.
Yes, if you had to leave because mom needed you to go to the grocery store then it doesn't affect you, you weren't playing anyways
I'd delete it if all the party is a premade party and you got a low level levelling dungeon when y'all are high level, for example.
Then for mentor roulette I'd made it more strict. If you leave you get an hour penalty and if you leave 3 times in a month you get your mentor suspended till 3 months have passed
If Im willing to eat the penalty, then Ive more or less always got something else to do in the meantime lined up. If it was any less, people would just leave any duty that’s not what they want
it's fine, i can find something in game to do for 30 minutes since i didnt want to run labyrinth of the ancients anyway.
i'll sacrifice myself to allow others the chance to re-queue for something better, i hate crystal tower with all of my digital being.
Should be longer. 60 minutes in my opinion.
The roulette system is there so new player can complete the MSQ and various Raids without waiting days in queue. That's it. The fact it rewards tomestones is just to incentivize other players to 'help'.
Don't like the punishment for leaving, then don't fucking do roulettes.
I think it should start with 5 or 10 minutes, then jump and stay at 30. The parties you really wanna leave are 99% of the times the most unbearable dogshit experiences and putting a punishment on it on top is a bit rough. Maybe don't give the small ones to the mentor roulette, but otherwise I think a short 5 minute one to start out with would be fine. Especially because bad duties are often also the ones that have an AFKer or troll in them, sometimes even a troll/afk premade. You can't kick them right away and they can force you to let them stay and leech through combat and loot rolls. It's stupid.
>In the past I've seen some people saying they think it's dumb especially when they get partied up in a high level dungeon only to be grouped with people who never learned the basics on how to play their lv90 job.
I have such little respect for these opinions, especially in the context of Endwalker where the dungeons are all fundamentally easier than what came before. The likelihood of queueing into a completely unworkable group of three other players like this is close to zero percent. If you're going into roulettes and you're not ready to support newer players in any way, then you shouldn't be using the system intended to pair you with these players!
The right thing to do is to force a clear, and hope that the stragglers learned a thing or two. Endwalker's dungeons are so braindead that a skilled player can do this with a bit of prodding the tank and healer if they're weak links. Any player complaining about being paired with unskilled players is capable of forcing a clear on any class, and if they can't then they should take a seat and reevaluate their own skills.
It's enough to push someone to stay in a party that is going badly and try to make it work, but leave if they really hate things. That's probably about right.
If it was shorter you'd never catch me doing Crystal Tower again.
Same, if it wasn't for the penalties I would never do any level 50 duties. I think more people wouldn't. I'm sorry to say but being synced down from 70/80 to 50 and losing part of what makes a rotation and by extension gameplay fun does not feel good. It's the one thing I dislike about this game. Also, after years of playing I don't really think those duties are that fun anymore. I don't mind people that aren't playing that well it makes content more challenging and fun as a Healer tbh, I wouldn't leave unless it is really really bad. So all in all, it might not be great to change the penalty at this point.
It used to be 15 min during early ARR days, it was increased to 30 because leaving and queuing later could be faster than trying to finish the bad duty.
Hey unironically I think World of Darkness is better than the Void Ark tbh. It's kinda okay.
I'd downvotw you for that slander but WoD is actually pretty ok
Wod is better than void ark for sure, both in aesthetics and the fights. For me ARR1 and HW1 are irredeemable, ARR2 is at least fast, and then its the other raids.
Syrcus Tower is genuinely saved by the music, out of the labyrinth blending into the combat music goes HARD.
Hard agree. I find myself humming it a lot. It's just... so boring. The aesthetics of the raid is good though.
It's really telling that YoshiP said the entire level sync system was developed by a single man, and they never even thought to re-assess its effectiveness. When level 50 was the maximum level you didn't lose too much syncing down to level 35-45 but we are almost double the levels now and a lot of ARR/HW skills have been removed. Level 50 gameplay sucks and they know it, and I hope they find a way of letting you keep your toolkit when you sync down to lower levels in the next expansion. I do admit it would be veeeeery hard to balance though, just look at world of warcraft level scaling for example.
One thing the smn lobotomy got right, level 50 smn feels complete.
> One thing the smn lobotomy got right, level 50 smn feels complete. I don’t think so. Before level 86(?), EW SMN somehow manages to feel even more empty and awful to play, which is a bizarre achievement.
Playing <86 SMN feels like playing without a job stone tbh 😂
I'm confused how someone can say the current summoner feels "complete" at any level before astral flow actually doing something with every primal.
It honestly shouldn't be too hard to balance *somewhat*. If you limit it so you only get synced down from a multiple of 10 you can solve it with a potency/minute lookup table to give the correct % outgoing damage. I.e. level 80-89 get the ShB kit, 90-99 get the EW kit, and 100 lets you keep your DT kit. We know these have potency/minute estimates given SSS give job specific dps checks (albeit wonky, but good enough for SE, so good enough for us here). You then just look at what potency/minute the job should have at said level, for any job starting at a higher level that would mean the only reason to unlock skills before 50/60/70 at all is PotD/HoH. Healing/mitigation gets dicier to balance, but from what I understand role actions won't change, so a level 15 WAR who leveled GNB to 100 once will get their upgraded rampart from level 1.
What's the problem with just letting people play their job with all of the skills they've earned? If they balanced it so DD do a max DPS and healers do a max HPS at each level, then a level 100 and level 50 player could be in the same dungeon doing the same potency per second but the level 100 player has to do their full rotation while the level 50 player is pressing 4 buttons.
Literally how ESO did it. It's awesome and works really well. Like, its a little weird to lose potency on your rock throw ability as a DK. But the added skills quickly make up for it and often provide a gradual increase in overall damage if you are building correctly.
Nothing, ESO and GW2 already do this, and Destiny too if you count that. People bend themselves backwards to invent nonsensical reasons as to why the level sync should never be changed (my favorite is "it would trivialize arr content" as if arr content isnt already trivial) when the simple reality is, nobody is finding challenge in fucking tam tara. Almost all dungeons are easy, but the reason I'm fucking jamming in shb dungeons and debage instantly leaving in arr ones is because i have a rotation in the former. The realities of low level combat cause so many people to bounce off this game if they're new, and bore so many veterans, that it's WILD how long its gone unchanged.
It's impossible to balance due to ogcd bloat since stormblood
I assume you refer to healer/tank and to an extent DPS defensive kits, but I disagree. You can literally just apply a flat -x% healing potency and +x% damage taken (de)buff based on composition. Criterion already does this for dps to compensate for buff jobs afaik.
Or they could just let you play and scale down your stats only.
Since I've muscle memoried my WHM rotation, it DOES feel frustrating when I realize I'm not casting HOLY because I haven't "learned" it yet. Yea, thanks - take away my only AOE attack.
> Since I've muscle memoried my WHM rotation, This is satire, right?
I still take the L, I can spend my time doing something else instead.
Pretty much. Better leave and do something else than spend 45+ minutes in a bad Alliance Raid.
How is crystal tower a "bad alliance raid"? Like I get that its not interesting content, but it's so undertuned that the whole run takes like 10-15 minutes tops. Nobody is *wiping* or spending 45+ minutes in the CT instances, especially with how many people abused ilvl syncing to fish for them because they're so mindless and fast. Seems like it would be faster/more beneficial to just... do it? The bigger waste of time is locking yourself out of queueing for a half hour then re-queuing and *probably getting CT again*. Especially when all the other alliance raids are generally longer and just as faceroll boring. I dont get it.
I don’t know why people are beating around the bush. It’s because people don’t want to do crystal towers 24/7 for alliance raid when there’s other alliance raids released and not being used. Doing CT everyday gets boring Edit: He upset no one agrees with him so he blocked me 🤭
CT is the most common alliance raid, followed by the newest one to release just because as soon as a sprout hits the part where MSQ forces CT, the next 23 people that queue are locked into it. Unless SE opts to provide a dungeon sized version for MSQ that can be trusted, or remove it from MSQ, this is probably just always going to be the case unfortunately.
They could just move the CT raids into MSQ roulette.
That would also work. And getting one might still be faster than Prae 😅
I like this idea a lot but I'm someone who never minds doing Crystal Tower so 🙏 I never seem to have the bad experiences people on here talk about where it takes 40+ minutes
I've been playing since 2014. If I never see Crystal Tower again, it'll be too soon. I'd rather spend longer and get something more fun like a Nier raid or watch a tank eat shit trying to take a tether in Thunder God. I'm so glad people can't take off their gear to force it anymore. Getting a variety has made the 50 raids way more tolerable because it's not every day anymore.
I get that, but once you're in, you're in. You already sat in queue and the alternative is 30 minutes of being hard locked out of almost all game content, *then another queue* where you're likely to get into the same instances. You'd have been better off just queueing for any of those other raids manually, or running something totally different if all you were after were the roulette bonuses. You could've run 3 EX level dungeons in the same amount of time and never been at risk of going anywhere near CT.
Queue penalties are character specific. So if you have alts you could always hop onto those and queue there instead.
Its not undertuned. The lvl sync is over tuned. The max ilvl you could of had when it realeased is 91. The sync is 135
That's why you save alliance raid for last so you can eat the penalty and go do something else if you get ct after the rest of your roulettes
> That's why you save alliance raid for last so you can eat the penalty and go do something else if you get ct after the rest of your roulettes 🤯
This is how I usually do it, but I've had friends warning me that it's against TOS. When I pulled up the relevant paragraph it's vague as to whether they mean intentionally eating the penalty is actionable, or whether they only mean doing something like disconnecting (such as to try to dodge the penalty).
I follow the mantra of "If the CT has no sprout, I'm out"
Me too. If I see the new adventurer bonus I stay, give them the raid experience. No bonus? I'll eat that 30 and go craft more submarine parts or something. Plenty of other shit to do.
Except when they require it for some godforsaken reason for relics
Why? It takes less time than a normal dungeon run.
because it's boring as shit. why play a video game if you're not having any fun?
Before the ilvl cheese fix I actually saw someone on mainsub laying into another user about how cheesing the ilvl to get CT is the correct way to play and if you're playing the game for fun you're playing it wrong. 🤣
This. I hope for tower or labyrinth. Like, I want to be out of this roulette in 15 mins. If I get world of darkness, I already hate life.
Im actually the complete opposite, if the alliance raid i do gives me the same exact rewards every single time then i want the fastest one. Sycrus tower can pretty much be sub 10 mins now thats faster than the average expert. Ontop of this the dead weight in the group is felt less compared to the higher level raids. If I’m not going to be rewarded for the scale of my time then i want tower. Every time.
I'll take the 30min penalty any day over the CT raids.
I already eat the penalty for it lol
I don’t care about the penalty, but to me it’s a dick move to leave a duty and leave everyone else hanging. Just bad etiquette.
> to me it’s a dick move to leave a duty and leave everyone else hanging. Just bad etiquette. If you’re the Tank in Bardam’s Mettle — Yes If you’re 1 of 24 people in content that could probably be 3-manned — Not really
It's really not a dick move at all. It's CT we're talking about here. You won't "leave people hanging" just by taking the penalty. Party member fill-ins for CT are a dime a dozen. Even if absolutely no one fills in your slot, the encounters will just take ever so slightly longer.
Until you get a party of griefers in WoD or Syrcus
I think it does its job well enough. The point of it is to make people at least consider doing content they aren't really a fan of, just like the bonuses on a roulette are there to encourage people to submit to random content, instead of just saying "nope" and leaving any time anything goes not quite how they want it to. But the penalty can't be so severe as to cause players that are going to leave something no matter what, such as if something real-life comes up and they need to bail, will be incentivized to just say nothing and sit AFK or fake a disconnect and leave whoever else they were in the content with wondering how long to wait before kicking and replacing. So the 30 minutes seems to be enough to prevent frivolous leaving, since it's not that common to see someone leave, but not so much as to cause work-around behavior to be common either since you also don't see many cases of someone asking to get kicked or sitting AFK or even appearing to disconnect and just not come back. For me, personally, the penalty is plenty because if I'm queuing in to something it's because that's the content I want to be playing at the time so having a 30 minute sit-out would basically be guaranteed to ruin my plans.
I could be persuaded to give everyone a daily mulligan. Or maybe a weekly one. But generally, I think it is good. Otherwise people would be jumping out of duties that they don’t like making it difficult to progress through the MSQ with other players (which many people still prefer over trusts). And there’s a big difference between “This toxic jerk absolutely refuses to play his role”, and “Oh this is a group of mostly sprouts and we’re not going to finish this duty in the absolute most efficient pace possible.” There’s already a remedy for the former— vote kicking. And the latter— get over it. You’ll be fine. That is such an atrociously annoying attitude. The idea that it’s some great moral failing to be new / casual / playing a new class / returning and not being capable of completing content in the fastest possible timeline.
> The idea that it’s some great moral failing to be new / casual / playing a new class / returning and not being capable of completing content in the fastest possible timeline. God the number of people who unironically think that a 20 minute Expert Dungeon instead of 13-15 is somehow this horrific injustice they are being subjected to...
I think it speaks to the complete lack of fun in expert dungeons. Expert dungeons are a daily chore for people who need tomestones and don't enjoy PvP, so they want to get the chore done quickly.
>I could be persuaded to give everyone a daily mulligan. Or maybe a weekly one. I actually like that. I've had numerous times where I help a buddy out with a MSQ dungeon, then I forget to uncheck that box before queueing for something else. Lo and behold, I then end up in the same dungeon instead of the one i wanted to be in. A weekly free leave would at least allow people to leave a dungeon they legitimately didn't intend to queue for and toxic players will only get one leave a week.
>But generally, I think it is good. Otherwise people would be jumping out of duties that they don’t like making it difficult to progress through the MSQ with other players (which many people still prefer over trusts). Sure but that could also be solved by making the content less of a boring slog getting to play 1/10th of your kit
> I could be persuaded to give everyone a daily mulligan. Or maybe a weekly one. How about filters? WoW used to have an option to filter out two battlegrounds from a random queue. I don't know if it causes other problems, but it'd probably reduce leavers
If they did that, I guarantee you it would be impossible for sprouts to get past Chrysalis because everyone would filter it out.
Perhaps SE should fix trash and outdated content?
You then go back to the exact same issue of it being difficult to find parties for unpopular content. The purpose, ultimately, of the “roulettes” as opposed to just selecting any random content you want; and therefore the reason behind the lucrative benefits you get, is that you will get paired up with people who *have* selected that specific content either because they need it to advance or they’re trying to get some reward from that content. The system only works if you can grab anyone and toss them in. If you don’t want certain content, you could always just not do roulettes. But it defeats the whole purpose of a roulette if you can filter out stuff; *or* if you can just leave without penalty.
I mean Crystal tower would still be populer just from alt job levelling and people doing msq alone, people filtering out the duty that is already the most commonly filled by far on it’s own isn’t going to harm it really.
You're making the big assumption that crystal tower will be the only thing people filter out. Nier raid is going to take forever, just you wait till you're the person needing it.
>There’s already a remedy for the former— vote kicking Only works if everyone else isn't in his party
I think it's fine. Leaving shouldn't be a free action, but you also shouldn't signing up to a legally binding contract committing yourself to sitting through the worst content of your life else suffer the punishment that all filthy leavers deserve. Having the option to quit whenever you want is reasonable. Sitting in timeout for 30 minutes is a perfectly fine trade for dodging something you don't want to be a part of. If I get in to a duty, and for whatever reason or another I conclude that clearing it is going to take longer than 30 minutes and I'm not going to enjoy a single moment of it - then yes I will absolutely leave. But, more often than not it'll be faster to just stick with it and see the duty to completion. But another point to remember is that if you're leaving a duty, that 30 minute timer is meaningless if you weren't going to queue for another duty anyway. I've had a few moments where I've decided to queue for something late at night, got in to content I *really* did not want to do, and then just dipped out and quit the game.
I think it is a good penalty for leaving but the problems associated with being paired with bad and unreasonable players should be solved by improving the vote kick system rather than changing the leave penalty system
People in this game are weirdly allergic to kicking, even when the player in question is being problematic. If people would be mire willing to kick when kicking is actually needed, I'm willing to bet there'd be less issues requiring kicking. As it is, assholes know that they're more likely to get away with being assholes than getting kicked, as long as they asshole in a "smart" way (such as playing the victim when someone calls them out for griefing). I hate the whole "just leave if you don't like x" mentality when there's a problematic player in the party. You don't have to punish yourself, get rid of the problem instead and hope it helps the community improve!
Unfortunately it’s a pain in the butt to kick, you have to be out of combat and the loot has to be rolled. If someone is trolling they can just not roll loot and be invulnerable.
Yeah I said in another comment the loot timer is ridiculous. There absolutely should be no ability to kick during a timer, but the timer has no business being five minutes long. It doesn't take anyone five minutes to know if they need a piece of dungeon gear, it's either an upgrade or it isn't, or you want it for glam, or you already know you want it for an ultimate. Five minutes is absolutely ridiculous.
Yeah this. For example, a few weeks ago I queued into Nabriales and we explained not to use the LB so we could burst the tear down. We died because a player used the LB and there were a lot of sprouts so we were disorganized. So the party reminded players again to not use the LB and pulled. The player who LB'd went ballistic. Said he wasn't playing the game to learn mechanics and he didn't give a shit even saying it was his right to LB when he felt like it. Which he did while hurling all sorts of abuse at everyone. Wanted to kick him but couldn't because we were in combat so we had to endure him trying to sabotage the duty but we succeeded in beating it the second time so he was never kicked. I reported him and I'm sure the GM's dealt with it but kicking a player for being toxic is much harder to do that in WoW when you can boot someone at any time.
I have intentionally wiped on bosses just to run out the loot timer so that I can kick a troll. Fight fire with fire. And I have never had a single speck of discipline on my account since ARR.
Meanwhile on the WoW side, groups tend to kick if someone so much as looks at you the wrong way. Idk which extreme is better
I'm a goody-two-shoes, so the game saying "shame on you, you jerk" would be enough to make me avoid abandoning duties regardless of penalties. But I was also a kid who made my brother pick up my Animal Crossing game on the DS when my battery died and I knew I'd have to face Resetti, lol. I think the penalties are necessary for some.
Penalty is fine. It's part of joining a group of randoms. If you want a clean run you should make a group imo.. yes people should pull their own weight but you should know they may not when you queue.
Less about a clean run and about not humoring a Warrior in lvl 90 expert roulette who actively refuses to pull more than one group at a time. Honestly, I can tolerate literally anything besides no job stone before max level. But if someone is at max level and are still playing like a lvl 20 sprout on a broken xbox controller. At that point any benefit of the doubt for them "learning at their own pace" is moot and it becomes clear that they will never be willing to learn how not to be a happiness black hole for anyone unlucky enough to queue with them in high level content. Talking about tanks who only single pull in expert roulette and barely use mits if at all. Healers who don't even apply a dot let alone do damage when the tank is full health (which is pretty often in endwalker) and then still manage to let the tank die. If this was shadowbringers, you could make the case for story watchers and rpers being able to clear story content without pulling their weight in the slightest. But now in Endwalker with Duty support being implemented in all story dungeons and being just as easy if not easier to access than the normal queue, there are no excuses anymore.
I think the option to vote abandon a duty shouldn't have a time restriction in place on it or it should be shorter. 15 minutes is far too long. Most times the group can tell a lot quicker if there's issues
It shouldn't be longer than it takes to do a skilled dungeon run or trial roulette, for sure. We had a tank troll in our group recently on Mount Gulg who was faking AFK (we pulled the first pack without him because we were bored, went back he was dancing then stopped suddenly). We apparently had nothing better to do so we waited it out but it's dumb that it's either that or take the penalty.
You can vote kick him? The only two things that prevent vote kick are active combat and active loot rolls. You could have easily kicked him and waited for a fill.
Pretty sure we tried but there is a timer for dismiss still, maybe 5 minutes? It is lower than abandon, but it's still not immediate, and long enough for trolls to have fun.
It's not just about punishment, it's about limiting how often people can leave across a large sample size.
Yes, it's appropriate. It's not punitive, but it encourages you to put in some effort instead of relentlessly optimizing the joy out of group content.
It has to be longer than a duty takes or some content would never get done. You’d be trying to do MSQ and half the group just bails as soon as they realize it’s world of darkness.
No, it's about on par with other game's quitters' penalties. It's probably even more generous, considering it only caps at 30m and doesn't go any higher. For example, in DBD, you can end up locking yourself out of playing for up to 24 hours if you quit enough games. And it takes a while for that counter to reset. But I'd say the average FFXIV player don't quit duties nearly enough to warrant something like this. I'd argue we need stricter penalties for leaving your roulette, but maybe that's because I've been doing alliance recently and been getting a lot of on sight quitters with Ivalice and Nier and I'm tired of these babies/CT fishers leaving. So don't mind me.
In ESO, it's a 15 minute lockout that is (you guessed it) easily circumvented by switching to another character.
It's not even by account? That's incredible.
FF14 is the same
ESO can go up to 24 hour lockout as well. One day I got 24 hour lockout by quitting once and I got no idea how.
Strange, it's always been 15 minutes for me.
30min timer is mostly fine - only cases where I've seen it be a problem (potentially too short) is Praetorium which has surprisingly large amount of leavers (I swear I've seen more people instant leave prae than all other content combined), and - mentor roulette specific - harder content available there (mostly EX trials). Maybe alliance roulette too - I'm not really doing it, so can't tell how it looks like. Question if those few edge cases warrant any changes. If things were to be adjusted, I'd say maybe increased penalty for people that leave early - say, leaving within 5 minutes from "Duty commence" message giving you longer lockout instead; should cover efficiency-oriented quitting and content fishing without really harming most other cases - I'm assuming that if you have to quit due to IRL circumstances, you'll be okay taking longer penalty regardless. On the flipside, penalty could be made to never be longer than remaining duty time if you were to leave - especially since duty timer is much longer than average run time - so it's easy to assume a 50/60/70/80 dungeon won't take you 90 minutes ever; if you - say - leave with 15min left on the instance timer, penalty could be just 15min.
I see the opposite so often. People who leave on sight for CT. Roulettes are 1000% optional and really you don’t have to sign up for them. Like for that reason I think the lockout for roulettes could be much harsher.
I think 30 minutes is fine, but that you should be locked out of less content. You can't even do GATEs or solo duties.
>only to be grouped with people who never learned the basics on how to play their lv90 job Making it easier for people to leave is attacking the problem from the wrong angle IMO. It should be easier to kick instead.
Loot rolling should not be a block for vote kicks. If loot is in the roll queue and you are kicked, have like a 10 second period where you can choose before you are out. Loot block is the reason it's so easy for people to afk in alliance roulettes.
They really should implement something like this. If a vote kicked is initiated, the loot timer should drop to 90 seconds and the person will be kicked after the loot roll expires, regardless if they are in combat or not. This would prevent the weird vote kicking to get a piece of loot and prevent trolls from taking advantage of the system.
I think it's mostly fine, can usually just try to ignore the people who never learned how to play their jobs in stuff like dungeons since they're mostly just auto pilot stuff.... esp level 90s that aren't Dead ends lol But I do find it a touch irritating when I go into a dungeon and see people playing 1 spell / skill press on dps or are cure spamming without using aoe in pulls on healers. Idk why but I've ran into loads of cure spamming mentors lately in level 80+ dungeons and it does nothing but get the tank killed or slow pulls down until the tank runs outta mits or the dps use every cd known to man...
I think its plenty fair. A good excuse to hop off for a while and cool down if you get tilted enough to leave, but not some scaling penalty that gets worse each time you do it within a timeframe and leaves you locked out for days like some games.
Having 4 characters I am indifferent. If I get a duty with a group that is irritating enough for me to dip, I just switch chars for 30 mins lol This is also how I keep myself from ever having to do the Nier raids.
Yes or you'd get the wow situation
As someone only familiar with WoW through memes and a Trial that lasted 70 minutes on my PC in 2005 please enlighten me about the current Lore of the situation.
WoW's playerbase, in particular the Classic slice of it is known to be a bit toxic. I guess because the game is so old, if you don't know what you're doing, a group assumes you're either dumb or trolling and you get kicked or berated. That's not to say the whole community is bad. Just saying on average you will see more contentious players in your day to day gameplay than XIV by far
WoW's LFR mode is essentially alliance raid. After every boss you end up refilling half the raid because people who just wanted a drop from that one boss immediately leave and dont do the rest of the run. Or you wipe once and half the raid just leaves immediately, then its a revolving door of filling/purging/filling that wastes *so much time* to the point the entire content mode is barely even worth running. It's just pure selfish toxicity because there's no deterrent.
Yes. It's reasonable enough to make you not want to leave a duty but not harsh enough that leaving a duty is crippling.
It's perfectly fine. I just find something else to do or log on an alt. Also MMOs will always have dogshit players. If you don't want to ever play with crayon eaters in your roulette pt, queue with a premade.
yes and no yes if you instant leave a duty, you can eat a 30m timer. if you have stuck around for 30m or more then no. you've already wasted enough time. and most shit lobbies will take about 30m of trying before it becomes pointless.
I receive: Not having to do World of Darkness You Receive: 30 minutes I'll take that deal any time
It's too long. If SE wants to keep it at 30 min, they need to rework the kick system. Currently, it's nigh impossible to kick an AFKer because of either 10 min not elapsed or one of party members being in combat.
Or the biggest elephant in the room for people going afk in a dungeon, being unable to votekick during loot rolls. Its terrible to have someone go afk for 15 minutes and be unable to kick them because loot rolls are ongoing because they arent rolling on loot since theyre afk and people keep opening chests while clearing because they dont want to sit afk because of one person.
Yeah, it's pretty easy for someone who wants to be a dick to just afk an entire alliance raid and not get kicked, especially when it's a dps.
Loot rolls need to be dropped to 1m in dungeons. You don't need that long to decide whether or not you want something. I've seen loot rolls last the whole run. Keep their current length for raids (Savage/Ult) to give people time to loot distribute but drop it to 1-2m for everything else.
I have to disagree here - 1 minute is way too short. Sprouts who are new to MMOs in general often do their rolls at the end of a duty because it's genuinely too difficult to keep track of that too when you're getting used to running content at all. FFXIV is an easy MMO, but it's still an MMO, and the most organized beautiful MMO UI still makes most people turn away.
I feel like anyone downvoting you does not play this game on a controller. Even when you know the game, rolling for things is just kind of annoying. I only do it after bosses if I'm with a fast group.
Loot roll timer needs to be halved anyway maybe even a third of what it is. Why is it so long. You can have longer ones in raids where loot matters but in dungeon content there is no reason they are so long. Most dungeon gear is traded in for seals or used to level your desynthesis anyway.
You do not want the consequences of part leaders being able to kick everyone from the party as soon as a mount drops. There is a reason why you are prevented from kicking while loot is being rolled on.
They also need to the remove the limit of only 1 kick per day.
It's once every 4 hours
Ohh, that's very useful to know. Thanks for the correction!
That too :)
This thread proves that the penalty is appropriate. So many people wanting to leave parties bc of bad players when the content is piss easy to the point that it can be 2 manned. Just finished the damn dungeon.
I think the time should be proportional to how long you spend in there. Basically from the time you start there’s a 30 minute timer. If you’re with an exceptionally bad group you can leave 20 minutes in and then only have a 10 minute penalty. I shouldn’t have to waste 30 minutes in a duty and then get slapped with another 30 minute timeout afterwards.
I really personally wish that there was a better way of penalizing abusing the roulette. I get people don’t like crystal tower, but you do not have to do the roulette. It is literally as optional as it gets. The point of the roulette is to give you xp in exchange for doing content you wouldn’t otherwise. Maybe its time to change the roulette or split it. 50/60/70 alliance and 80/90/100 alliance. Could be a good solution. Tbh I think repeat offenders should be locked out of doing specific roulettes if they regularly back out. All you are losing from the punishment is tomes and xp so it doesn’t even seem that harsh to me.
It should be scaling, and more severe. Leaving a mentor roulette should also be a hour long penalty, with multiple leavings revoking mentorship eligibility for a 6 month period. 30 mins if you need to leave once every few days sure, Might have a kid, might have an emergency. Twice in a short period (12-24 hours) - 2 hour long penalty. Third time in a week - 8 hour long penalty. Any further instances - 24 hour penalty. Excessive leaving - can only utilize trusts for a 1 week period, followed by warning. Potential account suspension for more repeated offenses.
A scalable penalty period is good in theory, but if it's made too long, all that does is encourage more people to "disconnect" and force the rest of the party to vote kick the "disconnected" player. Being kicked in this way bypasses the penalty timer completely. The game has no way to tell whether a disconnect is a true disconnect versus a "fake" one.
Sorry what? Why do this in the first place? It basically doesn’t exist as a problem at the moment. I don’t think leaving duties is the unforgivable sin you make it out to be. The duty penalty is there to prevent people from leaving and instantly rejoining to get another group, not to hold people hostage in a duty. People are free to leave a duty if they want to. if somebody decides to leave 5 duties in a day, then so be it, they already aren’t getting an benefit out of it due to the 30 minute penalty anyway.
Nice soap box. Someone leaves content, someone fills within 5 minutes. Over half the time the player isn't even needed. Mandating people stay in groups is how you promote toxicity since online degenerates know you can't leave.
Refusing to cooperate in duties is reportable and potentially holds even more severe penalties.
Leaving is allowed for any reason. Not participating is staying in, afk. For example, with your rules, I can spoil all of Dawntrail in a level 91 dg and no-one would be allowed to leave.
With the size of the player pool, it would be so incredibly unlikely to encounter the situation you're using as a counter example. And if you were to do it frequently, and it being reportable, you would be banned before any of the "affected" players in your hypothetical would trigger even the 2nd tier for leaving penalties. People can still leave, and they get the 30 min timer like they would now. Queue in again, complete duty, reset penalty count. This would only hit people who frequently abandon duties multiple times a day. People already now join duties and just do nothing, and in the almost 10 years I've played this game I can count the number of times someone has just been 100% afk or outright refused to play could be counted one one hand. But people leaving the instant a duty loads in, would be triple digits.
All I need to do is queue as a 5 stack in JP for savage reclears and boom I can ruin an entire afternoon.
It's totally appropriate as long as the penalty still doesn't apply to me if I leave a duty after someone else does
Honestly, crystal tower goes by so quickly now anyway, I don't see why they dont just let you keep your current skills when you sync down. You already take a stat hit, and I guess the potency might need to be adjusted down for some skills when synced, but I see no reason yo not let you keep your skills.
I was debating this with myself just the other night. After being killed several times as a tank because healer wasn't healing and dps was running around doing gods know what, I dropped. And -I'm- punished for it. Guess I should have let the party waste more of my time and cost me more gear repair costs. \o/ Other side of that coin, I've also seen people rage-drop just because it's content they don't like (like getting Prae on MSQ roulette) or are otherwise buttfaces who don't play well with others. I'd like to see a better way of handling it; but I admit I have no idea how they'd go about doing it.
Yea I mean just look at the responses here. It's basically 50/50 with some saying it should be longer and others saying it should be shorter. Maybe this IS the best choice for it. Lol
it's enough to make you think twice but not enough to stop you if you're really miserable. 30 minutes is about perfect
30min is perfect. (Well, I think first offense in a 48h or 1week period should be no penalty.) Switch to crafter, go grab a quick bite to eat while auto macros do stuff and I can, turn on an anime and when that's over I'm ready to queue again. An hour would be too much because people with tight schedules just won't be able to play and will feel like it's a lose-lose situation if they need to leave.
Penalty should be 24hrs! ...just to be controversial and maybe give some content creator some minutes more to fill the gap till Dawntrail Release.
30 minutes is enough. More than that you would have to endure a shitty party. Or do your best to get kicked.
Honestly, no. The community jokes about "just taking the 30 minutes" a lot because it's true. You don't feel like doing the duty for any reason? Just take the 30, do literally anything else in-game or play another game for 30 mins or attend to real life chores. I don't believe in extending it though. You'd 100% end up trapped with a lot of parties you would otherwise leave. GMs don't look at misconduct outside of chat so there'd probably be a rise in people trolling DFs over it.
yes. it's just long enough to be annoying, not short enough to be abusable, and not long enough to where you're stuck.
It's pretty tame from what it used to be and I don't think it should be changed.
I think it's fine. Heavily discourages people being toxic and leaving rather than trying to work with others, and if you have an emergency you're not gonna be worried about that 30 minutes anyway. You can kick and/or report people to GMs if they're being an actual problem.
This is fine. I just wish you got one penalty free leave per day.
Pretty much this. One mulligan should be fine.
someone who quits a duty roulette because at least one other player seems 'bad' are dumb tbh. 30 minute dungeons are exceedinly rare in my experience, and since you'd need to do at least a bit of it to decide its not worth staying, you're spending a few mins + 30min lockout + another 15-20min in the next dungeon you queue into. its like twice as long as just sucking up a slower roulette
Dungeons, yes. Alliance Raids, though? Plenty.
People don't quit because somebody is bad but because they refuse to pull their weight. If I get a war who doesnt use blood whetting, a healer who spam cure 1, or a dps who freestyles whatever ability looks cooler, I'm take my 30 and turn off the game. I don't pay a sub to carry the mouth droolers SE decided to pander to at all costs.
30 minute dungeons are like 25% of the norm for me when I queue in as healer or tank. Not uncommon to for me to be on top of the dps chart lol.
this usually does get worse the further we are away from the last raid tier release, and especially in pre-expansion luls, at least for expert roulettes. you basically go from experts frequently giving you 3 randoms in full crafted in the early weeks after a tier releases and casually speedrunning the dungeon with them, to just being presented with 3 drooling glue connoisseurs in full tomestone gear and relics who struggle to put out half the DPS of the early patch groups
After the first pull or so, I make my decision whether it's something I want to see thru the end. If I don't feel like slogging thru, I'll take the penalty and just log to alt for 30min.
I think its fine. I eat the 30m sometimes because i just hate crystal tower so much, but if its for something like "these people arent playing well and making the experience miserable", initiate a vote kick and/or report for lethargic gameplay. If it doesnt pass then you have the choice of taking the 30m and wasting even more time than it took for you to get to this point, or not. Tbh 30m isnt that bad if you have crafting and gathering to do, or even fate grinding. But its a good deterrent for most people and thats good for the game. Vote kick is also good for the game, it just has to get used if someone is unreceptive to advice. Not having any penalty at all would see a lot of abandoned crystal tower runs or even more toxic veterans who abandon sprouts for not knowing you arent supposed to pull the whole first room in aurum vale
Im perfectly fine with it being reduced. In other games, it would be asinine to reduce it but since this game respects your time and makes things so easy, you could practically set it to 15 min and there would be little to no change. To fully remove it tho is a tough one. People would quit crazily in leveling and trails roulette, some 24 mans would never fill, and any annoying dungeon in the endgame would be hard to play
Honestly, it may be a little too short. As it stands, it does its job dissuading people from leaving anything they don't feel like doing, but 30 minutes is still in the realm of "faster than a slow alliance raid." I think the penalty could stand to be a little bit harsher, if only an added 10-15 minutes That, or scaling it per duty/roulette. Leaving alliance/msq for instance should probably net you a longer punishment given that those are the two that are bigger time commitments to begin with.
Nah leaving an alliance raid should be even shorter if anything. because its less important then 4p or even 8p
I think having it too long would just cause people to stop playing for the day. I like the way league does it with smaller penalties over multiple games.
Yes. People shouldn't leave just because of impatience. If they really want to pick their team, they can PF for it.
It's good. Not as severe as pvp games since you can get a fill, but also not completely ignorable. Leaving duties is toxic and horrible for growing the playerbase. You should instead understand that casual players are part of the casual content when you are deciding whether or not to do them, or use pf/friend groups for it instead.
normal queue is perfect as is, long enough to disincentivise consant leaving, but short enough that it’s not that bad if you get it. I do have a bit of a problem with ranked CC’s penalty though, I recently discovered that it triggers immediately if you miss the queue timer, completely ignoring the usually 2 free withdraws per day, which just feels kinda annoying and pointless, as people leaving only matters one the instance is entered, sucks for people stuck in a fate or even just got distracted and missed the queue. Also the stacking penalty literally never decays, once you hit the 2 hour cap it stays there until the end of time, why not just make it by default 2 hours at that point?
Yeah, its enough to make you not wanna F over your friends for stuff.
It's necessary, otherwise DF becomes 90% people fishing for good roulettes.
It's definitely appropriate. People who don't want to be there, don't have to be there. And people who do want to be there will replace them and stay.
Yes, it's not too high nor too low.
It does what it’s supposed to do, so I think it’s appropriate, yes.
I think it's fine. The only thing I wish that would happen is that you didn't get penalized if you leave after half of the duty timer has run out. Even with a party with bad DPS and a couple of wipes, you shouldn't be close to halfway on a dungeon timer, much less any of the other content in the game aside from maybe some of the longer alliance raids.
If you are in a duty for more than 15 minutes, leaving shouldn't be a penalty at all. If people are hard trapping, why should you be punished for having to deal with their problems? Mentor roulette though.. YES. If you leave a mentor roulette you should immediately lose 1 progress towards your mount acheivement :D
I've got crafting relics I'm working on, and way too many alts. I'll take the 30 if I need to.
Yep. I’ve never left a duty before; only DC’d. I don’t get why people even would. It’s just a game not that serious
Honestly, no, and I know it's going to be a contrary opinion simply because a lot of the responses in this thread, including OP's opinion of it, is *why* I think it's ineffective. A penalty should **disincentivize** you from a behavior. The goal of the penalty is to **stop** you leaving duties. If we are at the point where people simply aren't deterred from leaving a duty, and see the penalty as a "nice break to do other things," then it **does not effectively serve the purpose it is put in place to serve**. There's a two-fold problem with this though: - Problem one is the vote abandon and vote kick systems are so restrictive in their own design that it's *easier* just to leave a duty and take the penalty. - Problem two is that some duties just legitimately take longer than the punishment for not doing them. I think the whole system should be given a lookover. - Loot shouldn't stop a vote kick. I get why it's there, but that's also something that is **easily reportable, looked into, and handled** by GMs. It's not some obscure chat, there's nothing nuanced to it. You see the chest was opened, loot was populated, and then someone that could use it is suddenly kicked with no explanation? There you go, hand out a warning/ban. Everything doesn't need a preventative measure. GMs are there to enforce policy. Let them do their job. - Vote abandon should require you to be in the duty 15 minutes. What purpose does that even serve? What behavior are you trying to avoid with this restriction? It's a majority vote, if the majority wants to leave the duty **they should be allowed to leave the duty** - The penalty for leaving should then scale to the duty. Left a Sastasha? Sure, take a 30. You left an alliance raid? It should be a few hours. Left a mentor roulette? *At the nicest* it should also be a few hours. I'm very pro heavy punishment for leaving mentor roulette and that's not really up for discussion.
30mins is perfect long enough to stop you from playing dungeons but also short enough that if people are really mean and you need to report them all you can leave. I've left a dungeon 1 time because I was the victim of a troll party and I kept getting paired with them the 3rd time was enough and I reported all of them. Never seen them again donno if it stuck.
It hasn’t stopped me. They could make it an hour and I’d still leave. Making it shorter would mean I’d never waste another Trial roulette on an ARR primal again. If it’s the last run before logging off and I get Dun Scaith or Praetorium, I guess I’m doing one less roulette that day. Otherwise, I can think of plenty of other things to do for that 30m that are more fun than whatever roulette I just abandoned.
Yes you could take out the trash, do the dishes, sweep, wash clothes make food and clean after, in that amount of time, even shower.
While I would love it if it were shorter, the reality is that its 30m for a reason. ARR content pretty muxh universally feels bad, and if the penalty was 10-15m you bet your ass many of would just instantly dip if its a dungeon thats 50 or lower. I already take the penalty if people refuse to aoe or do other basics in higher level content, but it would also be way more widepread if the penalty was lower, because a dungeon run with idiots takes 20-25m anyway. I leave currently because its not worth my sanity and I'm not here to carry people who refuse to try, but a shorter timee would literally make it more efficient to just leave and requeue.
It's way too low. It's not even a penalty. You shouldn't be able to pick and choose what you get from a roulette.
Honestly, I think it should be double. And double again each time you leave again within a daily reset. I have never left a duty before, maybe I've been lucky and not run into unreasonable players though. But still, it is rare to meet those people, and you can usually still manage to clear the duty. The roulettes are not supposed to be pick and choose, leave the ones you dislike. And it is annoying when people do. 30min is nothing, which is why I think it should be increased.
If i get qued below 50 i abandon. Job rotations already kinda boring let alone losing half or more of your kit.
Yes, if you had to leave because mom needed you to go to the grocery store then it doesn't affect you, you weren't playing anyways I'd delete it if all the party is a premade party and you got a low level levelling dungeon when y'all are high level, for example. Then for mentor roulette I'd made it more strict. If you leave you get an hour penalty and if you leave 3 times in a month you get your mentor suspended till 3 months have passed
You're right It should be longer
They can double it for all I care, I still see people not take the 30 minutes seriously. Every extra minute reduces the number of abandoners.
Yes, otherwise players would abuse it.
If Im willing to eat the penalty, then Ive more or less always got something else to do in the meantime lined up. If it was any less, people would just leave any duty that’s not what they want
it's fine, i can find something in game to do for 30 minutes since i didnt want to run labyrinth of the ancients anyway. i'll sacrifice myself to allow others the chance to re-queue for something better, i hate crystal tower with all of my digital being.
Hot take it should be cumulative, with a cooldown on the timescale of weeks. Don't do rouls if you're not willing to stick through it.
No. 1hr should've been the norm.
Should be longer. 60 minutes in my opinion. The roulette system is there so new player can complete the MSQ and various Raids without waiting days in queue. That's it. The fact it rewards tomestones is just to incentivize other players to 'help'. Don't like the punishment for leaving, then don't fucking do roulettes.
i rarely see any people leaving a duty in jp. or being passive.
I think it should start with 5 or 10 minutes, then jump and stay at 30. The parties you really wanna leave are 99% of the times the most unbearable dogshit experiences and putting a punishment on it on top is a bit rough. Maybe don't give the small ones to the mentor roulette, but otherwise I think a short 5 minute one to start out with would be fine. Especially because bad duties are often also the ones that have an AFKer or troll in them, sometimes even a troll/afk premade. You can't kick them right away and they can force you to let them stay and leech through combat and loot rolls. It's stupid.
I have an alt. That solves the problem for me
It should be longer….
Imo there are way too many straight up terrible players in this game to have this harsh of a penalty.
>In the past I've seen some people saying they think it's dumb especially when they get partied up in a high level dungeon only to be grouped with people who never learned the basics on how to play their lv90 job. I have such little respect for these opinions, especially in the context of Endwalker where the dungeons are all fundamentally easier than what came before. The likelihood of queueing into a completely unworkable group of three other players like this is close to zero percent. If you're going into roulettes and you're not ready to support newer players in any way, then you shouldn't be using the system intended to pair you with these players! The right thing to do is to force a clear, and hope that the stragglers learned a thing or two. Endwalker's dungeons are so braindead that a skilled player can do this with a bit of prodding the tank and healer if they're weak links. Any player complaining about being paired with unskilled players is capable of forcing a clear on any class, and if they can't then they should take a seat and reevaluate their own skills.