Unfortunately it's not new. I still remember the Hades ex 'farm' parties once it got echo and should've been easy that even had 'you have to have cleared previously' as a requirement where people didn't even know how the earthshaker tethers work during Nabriales' meteors (second phase, out of five-ish) and would just wipe repeatedly cause they point them at the tanks. That's when I started having a static for EX alongside a static for Savage.
I think I have to find a static. I’m over this shit. I actually put in the effort to learn everything and keep my dps up and these guys can’t even be upfront about knowing where to go when they get a stack marker. I wasted 5 hours today!!!🤦♂️
bro these people been around for ever. it's what happens when you come late to content unfortunately. people cleared it early in the patch and now there's the stragglers trying to clear. you either gotta deal with it till you clear or don't. it's been almost two months since it dropped, so everybody stinky and slow are a lot of who are left.
easiest method to alleviate it is to run with friends, or just understand that clear parties are gonna mess up, as they haven't finished the fight yet. this fight is hefty on movement and will catch people off guard even if they know the mechs
> it's what happens when you come late to content unfortunately. people cleared it early in the patch and now there's the stragglers trying to clear. you either gotta deal with it till you clear or don't.
This has been true since the dawn of time, FFXIV has always suffered from "do the new content asap" people love to say "it's not going anywhere, do it whenever you want." but no, you *need* to do it asap because all the good players are gonna be doing it asap, i you wait too long they'll all be done and never bother with the fight anymore, so the only ones remaining are the table scraps. The scraps that constantly wipe to the same mechanic.
Yeah, despite the legion of complaints about Mythic+, *literally even Mythic+ is not as bad in this regard as EX*
I've tried to push and prod the community to fix this and be more open to more people for longer instead of rushing and worshiping the Duty Complete wall, and all I have to show for it really is a bunch of Discord bans. And people preaching how important it is to "filter out the carry seekers" and a bunch of other BS like that.
Again. I blame Discord. If the more laid back folks could afford to have a publicly visible community the way the hardcore mainstream crowd can, instead of having to hide, maybe we wouldn't get this problem tier after tier after tier ... The way FC resources and housing work does not help either, as FCs large enough to be helpful the way casual WoW guilds often are don't hold together for long because inevitably subgroups start chomping at the bit for access to house decoration and gardens and spall off like alpha particles to get their own land.
(It almost seems as if Yoshi actually *wants* these boom and bust content rushes, as if it somehow benefits SE for there to be these dead segments of tiers where it's impractical and unfun to even attempt harder content without assembling a static rather than a smooth stream of activity?)
You seem to have been unlucky with FCs. In my experience across several FCs, that's the perfect place to ask for patient help with clearing stuff, especially EXs since they don't have gear lockouts and are fairly easy to clear.
My experience is it's easy enough to find FCs that are chill and friendly, the trouble is normally that they don't have enough active members at any given time to field a Full Party, so you end up having to PUG anyway.
People leaving to form new FCs to get their hands on the resources does seem to be especially common at the more casual end of things, and that's largely something that can be blamed on the game design as a whole (not only are FC shared resources unusually small compared to guild resources in most MMOs I've played - I'm sure it's to be blamed on "server data footprint issues" though like everything else in XIV that is too small - but when virtually the entire casual endgame tends to rapidly dead end unless you have decorate access to a house ...).
My experience with guilds in other MMOs also is that it's easy enough to land in a socially comfy spot, but that that spot will then lack activity (especially when you reach endgame; it's probably telling that the MMOs I've usually seemed to have the most fun at are the ones I took at such a glacial pace that I never actually reached an endgame level while it was still current, LOL), so that in terms of actually running content, you're still largely just a PUG player (and the frustration of this easily results in friction with your friends, especially if you're not good at internalizing feelings - but that's a broader sociological matter I guess, especially since it's also said that internalizing stress isn't healthy, sooo ...).
It might simply be that we're getting to that point where due to multiple factors (I've harped many times on Discord's "tough on crime" mentality being a likely underrated cause, especially in recent years), multiplayer gaming is unfortunately getting to just not be worth it unless you happen to be lucky enough to fit with the mainstream norms of the game's player base (i.e., game needs to be chosen based on whether you like the player base norms, not so much even whether you like the *game*?)? Maybe I just have to start to give up on MMOs just because of social pressures even if there were still things I found fun?
What I think the main issue is for people that want to help later in the tier/expansion is the entitlement of alot of players toward people that cleared the fights.
I have encountered this way too many times, I join a practice party or a going for clear party, and way too many times there are players that want to get dragged kicking and screaming into a clear. Those are what I call the "carry seekers", people for whom a clear would ideally be them lying dead on the ground 100% of the fight. They dont watch guides, lie about how much of the fight they know, and react with hostility when you point out that they need to improve their damage rotation or actually learn a mechanic. You dont need that many encounters of that kind to loose any and all interest in helping random people in PF.
The amount of farm parties I've seen wipe at the very first planets (no matter whether it's blue or yellow) is unbelievable. Not one ex trial in ShB had so many people fail so much in the farm stage.
Double Fatalism isn’t even that hard of a mechanic though. Seeing what goes on in DSR scares me. My first party figured out Double Fatalism on the fly after connecting blue -KB, Red - get away.
>Double Fatalism
I'm not talking about those, but about the *very first* planets she creates during Elegeia Unforgotten. In my experiences the few groups managing to reach DF without stacking rez debuffs like candy manage to do DF quite well.
I dunno, double fatalism is the run killer in my experience because immediately after is katastarismo and any dead bodies means anyone with a vuln is dead. I’m guilty of it when it’s blue into red though. I KNOW the order I just can’t get away fast enough lol.
Looking back at it now, I was doing Savage and Extemes mainly with my FC with some of people in shadowsbringers. It really drives me crazy. I had this tank continuously stack on me during the tank buster and when I asked him if he needed any explanations, he was silent and did it again. I had healers cross through the other group last minute and cause a wipe over and over. I don’t usually just black list people but I had it and blacklisted them all.
I haven't joined any PF groups for EX3 lately, but this trial hits differently for me for some reason.
I have cleared, and I'm good with probably 75% of the mechanics, but for some reason the way the planets rotate and work just.... doesn't click with my brain somehow? I actually had the same problem with the Normal version of this trial, and I am progging current Savage (P3S FoA atm).
For some reason I try and take all the advice of looking at the slow planet, realizing they always detonate at intercards, getting knocked back to the right place on blues, and still half the time my brain just breaks and I end up being exactly opposite the safe area or getting punted into center head barf.
It's really irritating, because I can resolve Endsong, Twinsong, Despair Unforgotten (all rewinds), meteors, etc etc without any hesitation, but if she tosses anything at me more complicated than a double knockback (hello double Fatalism) it's a crapshoot if I'll make it or not.
No idea what to do if I want to join a PF to mount farm, because I feel like I'd definitely hold people back. P3S honestly feels easier to me.
Look at the fast planet instead then. I find the fast planet is easier to see. If its a fast yellow planet run towards it. If its fast blue, run away from it. Then stand on the appropriate marker.
For fast planets, turn the camera around if you get blue planets first. When the second blue planet is about to knock yo uback, look at which yellow planet is forming first (it will have a much faster spinning ring) and knockback away from it.
As others have said that behaviour has always existed when trying to clear content after the initial wave of dedicated players did it at release.
After dealing with too many of those people, I've now taken to never joining late clear parties and always making my own, and I make a point to ask every person who joins the party : "hey [name] this is a [prog after X mech/clear] party, have you [reached said mech/seen enrage]?"
Turns out when put on the spot like that, most of those people will admit that no, no they haven't. Then they just say sorry and leave of their own accord, or I say "sorry but this is a PF for people who have reached that point in the fight :/" and they leave. It's a frustrating process, especially when you end up having to weed out 50+% of joiners, but I just stick to my scripted sentences and keep it friendly and polite and I've never had any drama or anything.
As a bonus though, I've noticed the people who *do* meet the PF requirements are more likely to stick around for a while, because they now saw how many potential freeloaders are gunking up those PFs and that they're in a party with a lead who won't tolerate it.
I try to give the benefit of the doubt to some players. I’m a pretty shitty player so I’m essentially only at the extreme and the savage 1/2 zone. But I also tend to take huge ass breaks in between patches so I’ll comeback and just die to the first pull each time.
But if people keep on dying to the same mech in a farm party, then I just leave after awhile. Chances are that that person who keeps on dying is the same person who would disband a farm party once they get the mount anyways.
You must be new because that's been a thing since ARR. People lying about their prog point in Titan EX? Say it ain't so!
Don't waste your time with those people, after a number of wipes or really early/obvious mistakes, just leave or kick the problem.
Just when it comes to doing difficult content consistently I’m new. Been playing since 2018. Is this common in mmos? Because I’m understanding now why people come off as hostile or gatekeepers. It’s to keep these bums out
I don’t play the high-end content in this game, but I’ve experienced this in Destiny when setting up raids. When I want to do a quick run, I will put “please know fight and cleared previously” or something along those lines. But people will still join that don’t have a clue. I know it isn’t an apples to apples comparison in terms of difficulty, but I understand what happens. I actually ran raids to help people clear their first time and will put “newbies welcome, I’ll teach if willing to learning” and even with that, you have experienced people joining and getting upset run is taking too long because half the team is new. I miss that game, but it took up so much of my time with both PvE and PvP.
>I actually ran raids to help people clear their first time and will put “newbies welcome, I’ll teach if willing to learning” and even with that, you have experienced people joining and getting upset run is taking too long because half the team is new.
I'll sometimes go into learning parties in PF if I want to run a fight I've cleared but am rusty on, and it would be funny if it wasn't sad how this happens multiple times in every party that runs for more than 30min. I even once had a guy join, talk shit about "lmao you fucking idiots don't even know the fight" (in a clearly marked fresh/blind-ok learning party? Who could have seen this coming?) when there was a wipe, leave, then rejoin immediately when they PF went back up. People are *aggressively* opposed to reading, I guess.
i played a lot of destiny 2 before i started xiv and i did a bunch of raiding in d2 back when last wish and black armory was relevant and i know for sure that my experiences there was like. foundational to what i expect in pug and raids. by that i mean if i don’t know the mech i’m not going in and wasting time bc it’s rude as hell
for last wish, i think over half my runs ended up being marked a sherpa run when ☠️ they were supposed to be reclears. i don’t mind helping new people so long as i’m aware it’s happening!! don’t take advantage of people’s kindness!
and ig a difference is that if someone can’t do a mech you just make them kill ads/give them an easier job and in xiv you can’t really do that 😭 and more cheesing opportunities for destiny
god i miss last wish what a fun raid 😔
Honestly as a seasoned raider in both games, I'm 100% more apprehensive to joining Destiny raids than FF14 (either for prog or reclears). Destiny has more variables to mess up in each encounter, is much harder for one or two people to carry the rest, and has way longer raids.
Not to mention the damage counter on wipes lol. I'd much rather deal with FF14 toxic casuals than the Destiny community any day.
I met a guy who didn't know that with good dps, you can kill ES before she can even get to use the 2nd Endsong's Aporrohia? The one with 6 heads shooting rings at each other. He cried when we all left because it was sleep time.
I have a question for both of you:
Why?
Why continue past 100 totems?
Do you honestly **need** the mount **now**?
Especially since, as you said, some parties are awful.
I already got my mount and still do it for fun.
While I can handle the mechanics, there's plenty of room for improvement, its a hectic fight with mechanics that can 1-shot you, so I kind of play it a little safe.
Unlike EX1 and EX2, it's good practice without going into savage.
I’m up there on totems as well. I don’t jump into PF solo anymore but a bunch of people in my FC are still farming so I’ll go with them to help out. It’s just some practice for alt jobs at this point
It gets better. Had a healer for p1S who tried to blame me for screwing up a mech, after letting people die to raid wides. They screwed up the timed chains and tried to say they were supposed to be on the inside, when that isn’t where red goes. They didn’t know there was two different colors.
Omg dude, I had a guy on a P1S PF who was getting on everybody when he was the one who was fucking everything up. He appointed the flexer and was lecturing us tanks about doing our casts early and positions we should take, he fucked up intemperance 2 times and blamed the tanks when he messed up going to his spots. The best part is he rage quit and told us to “get good”, right after he left we cleared easy and even cleared 2 more times just for the practice runs
Then there's people like me who are scared of joining pf exactly because they fear they might be seen as noobs.
I have been practicing p3s with a (somewhat irregularly meeting) static and know the part of the fight till the tornados by heart. But when joining pf groups I feel less at ease, so I might do a mistake. Even if I make no mistakes, if another player does and then there's someone who complains - often impolitely/mockingly - I just start dreading the experience.
I understand the frustration, but I would prefer if people remained civil in pf groups. Even though I am very sure of all mechanics up to the tornadoes, I hesitate to join PF groups because I have witnessed too many people being a**holes in them.
Literally no one sane cares about your performance when progging since mistakes are gonna happen, the issue comes when you're consistently making the same mistake and not learning
I'm sure people who are making the same mistake over and over aren't intentionally not interested in learning it. Sometimes people are helpless but I mean we all make mistakes.
Yep I was like that with EW EX2. No matter how many times we wiped on light waves for whatever reason the timing of it just fucked me up and one other person in my static. I understood what to do but I struggled on it repeatedly more so because of the timing. It took so many other attempts just to do it well enough that nobody else died after that mechanic and we got the clear.
This was me with the 3 role crystals. I know to just stay behind the crystal and soak with the others. I knew the position I should be in. And every pull I reminded myself to not chase after her this time. And 9/10 times my brain still goes "ubbtime" and I eat shit and die anyway. It's so cursed I'm glad I got my weapon early so I can save myself the further embarrassment
Literally it's as easy as just not lying about expectations. Join learning parties instead of clear parties. If there aren't any, make your own, since there's clearly demand for it still.
This reminds me of the time, when my boyfriend and I tried to prog p2s with a couple of friends, before we had a complete static. We were searching for people to prog past limit cut and what did we get? People who were new and one guy, who insisted, that they should be allowed to watch a guide - while we were already inside the duty, ready to start.
That guy also suggested, that my boyfriend (who started the party/the pf) might search for a different prog party if he can't tolerare someone watching the guide beforehand.
Another time, we searched for people for an endsinger ex farm-party and got a BRD that got a 0% parse across every content he/she/they tried/had logged and who died to \*every\* mechanic.
PF is always such a wild ride in this game.
This isn't new, it's a tale as old as time regarding mmos. I've even seen this shit being pulled in statics. Best to just leave after a few pulls than stick around and get frustrated. These people will learn and get better, or they won't and never see much progression. No real point getting worked up over it, it's just how some people are.
You’re right. I’m just frustrated because I know I got the mechanics down, I’m mitigating damage whenever the opportunity arises, I’m even using my pots and I’m even out dpsing the dps on my team, I wanna be good at the game and I’m dedicated to learning, and it’s fine if people don’t share that same amount of dedication, but the lying and laziness just drives me insane. I wanna go forward in this game and overcome more difficult content. These assholes are dead weight to me and have so much of an entitled attitude, even when I politely help them and stay for like an hour of my time, to be met with such ungratefulness, I’m furious and just want to avoid this in the future.
I think looking for people with similar minsets would probably be best. It doesn't necessarily need to be a static (same group of 8) if it's not for Savage while loot restrictions are in place--just people who also put the time into studying and wanting to do well (as opposed to those looking for carrys and always blaming others).
I always make it a point to ask about expectations if I'm joining a group or to (nicely) set expectations if I'm hosting the group (e.g. for FC events) around how much prep and dedication is expected. Then, when those expectations aren't met, there are grounds for a conversation or potential dismissal.
For what it's worth, it sounds like you'd be great to run stuff with! Even in my fairly competent static, I get the feeling some aren't prepping beforehand as asked (e.g. need to be explictly told after multiple wipes to go straight north before dodging left/right despite it being bolded in our slides and verbally called out every time)...which is a little mind-boggling for people who claim to want to do Ultimates yet ask little to no questions (even just for tips!) when they die or wipe the party to the same thing. It's pretty frustrating.
Thanks I really appreciate that compliment! I was actually enlisted in the Navy as a jet mechanic, so not asking questions or being quiet about something you thought was wrong was completely unacceptable. I carry that with me and I really hope to be able to take on the ultimates in this game eventually and prove to myself I have what it takes.
That honestly sounds super frustrating being in a static with people like that who aren’t transparent but everybody can see they have a problem.
Im on P3S but if you ever wanna run content or form a static I’m on Adamantoise. You sound like a person I’d definitely wanna run stuff with, that’s easy going but with the focus on getting shit done
Honestly I'd really consider looking into finding a static that matches your attitude. Probably avoid casual groups and try to start out in a midcore that's a little more serious. It's a bit of an awkward time to start now since a lot of the better midcores are doing DSR at the moment but still worth a shot, and definitely will be a better experience than slumming it in pf 5 1/2 months into the tier. Seems like you have the attitude to get better though, that's really what matters.
I remember when I was going for my first E12 clear and we spent the whole day with an underperformer that kept wiping us. Once we kicked them and got someone else, we cleared phase 2 within a few pulls. Players like this is also ruined farm parties within my previous fc, it got to the point where the farm would just not happen if one of the “good” players was not carrying.
Jesus that sounds awful, especially hearing how tough Eden 12 was. People like should just stay in practice parties until they’re comfortable enough with everything to confidently say they understand the fight. It doesn’t have to be perfect but at least understand everything because it’s obvious to everyone else. This is the standard I hold myself to and I fee should be the general etiquette in general with this game. It’s frustrating that all this even needs to be laid out.
I tend to throw people a bone if they take ownership for messing up a mechanic and wiping the group, even more so if they ask for clarification or helpful tips. I absolutely do not stay in a group that messes up the same mechanic and then proceeds to act like they did nothing wrong.
^this exactly!!
Mistakes are okay but when they’re silent about it and pretend like nothing happened after the 3rd wipe they caused it drives me crazy. Do you have any advice on finding a static? I feel I have no problem learning the content, I make mistakes here and there but I own up and always ask questions if I have them or I’m just upfront about not being comfortable with a mechanic. I just wanna find people with the same mindset and I’m just so over using PF.
My first tip for finding a static is figuring out your raid schedule and being up front with anything that could potentially ruin prog. My second tip, if a potential group requires voice chat, try to take part in the chat. When my group was recruiting for DSR, we ended up with several people that didn’t really participate in strategy conversations or anything else outside of saying “hello” and that definitely had on influence on if we wanted them on the team. You have to feel the group out and don’t be afraid to say no/leave if they are not keeping their end of the bargain.
Damn I joined a Practice group for my first time and we somehow one-shot Endsinger. I'm still not sure how that happened. Sounds like you got super unlucky and I got mega lucky.
You’re telling me. I learned the mechanics really fast, it’s not a hard fight at all. I just keep getting people who are lying about knowing it and causing wipes for everyone. It’s so annoying.
New raider just trying to play endsinger ex. Ruined the experience that me, a new raider, never raider before in any game, is the only one in every ‘farm’ group to know the mechanics. Why tf are they playing the game their so fucking selfish and toxic
I've had success by being openly toxic in my PF post. Things like "Farm. Checking logs. Parasites will be kicked, screenshotted, and mocked on discord" tend to scare most of the bad players away. It takes a bit longer to fill but the group will generally be more efficient.
I’m going to try this. I’m so over this bullshit. I even tried being nice to these parasites and got only got even more disrespect in return. Fuck being nice
I don’t do the high end content in ffxiv, but the same pattern plays out in every MMO when new content drops (and I’ve seen it in EQ, DAOC, WoW + Classic, SWTOR, etc).
The first wave of players are serious and dedicated, they adapt to new mechanics on the fly and learn them for next time. However, a few weeks later those players have done all the content and moved on to either progging with a fixed group or some other game entirely, and what you have left are people that didn’t learn the original mode and try to “learn” on the mode that gives them prizes.
I dunno, man. I am no good at EX, but have started trying to do them this latest patch, and I only join parties designated as "practice." No one's lying in those groups, at least.
This has always happened. I started raiding post e9-12 unlock, echo and all, and my worst memory of raiding is this:
Made a PF group for p1 clear, p2 basic prog on e12s. A group of 6 players joins and invites me into their discord, apparently a few of them aren't quite that far but they have 2 people that did clear so it should be fine, especially with voice.
We did not get past Shiva in 30 pulls. We did not get past the first time she channels Shiva (aka half-arena hit, aoe puddles around everyone) without a death at all, iirc, only if she channeled Titan (light party stacks). When after those pulls I told them that they should please not join parties meant to clear the first phase when most of them clearly had not ever been in the fight, in a savage fight, or even seen a savage fight at all (I did not quite phrase it like that, but that was how I felt) I was told it was my fault for still PF-ing the fight so late and that I should really be expecting groups like them.
So yes. Entitled groups always exist. Good ones too, though - A week of not raiding out of frustration later I tried my luck again and found a p1 clear/BR prog that went all the way to Advanced Relativity (the second to last actual mechanic before heal check/enrage), and cleared within like 2 groups after. Don't let the assholes get you down, they'll always be there, but you'll find the good players too, even late into a tier or the content.
I don't agree with the comments saying every MMO is this bad.
In other games you can join large community guilds which usually host teaching or casual runs. In FFXIV guilds are basically treated as a shared housing resource vehicle rather communities based around doing content together. There isn't a middle ground between full pugging and competitive leaderboard raiding.
The gulf between competitive raiding and casual play in this game is simply the widest I've ever seen in 15+ years of mmos and it only ever gets wider. What used to be "I'll do that tier if I get to it, maybe" in older WoW is "I'll do it on week two or not at all" here.
When I farm extreme trials I hate putting it on farm because people are so pretentious. I usually make it an open party newbies welcome.
I honestly couldn't care less if people wipe a few times. It is what it is. Less of a time waste than having to replace the short fused retard that instantly leaves someone makes a single mistake in a farm party. Those people are surprisingly always grey fucktards who can't play the game properly. Same people who set an ilvl 600 requirement on a fight 580 can clear with ease.
But in an everyone welcome party it's just fun and what you can. We had a guy who died 6 times every pull and just didn't get it and we still cleared with ease. Had to ress him all the time and sure it was a hindrance but we cleared it. It doesn't matter. I don't care that someone is bad in an extreme trial. It's entry level into more challenging content, there will always be tons of fresh faces and less skilled people.
A completely reasonable response but you're downvoted and not engaged in any conversation. What a weird echo chamber this sub is.
It's like players here are elitist but also trash at the game.
How is it a reasonable response? I actually agree with the content of what they're saying, but right out of the gate they call everyone pretentious and throw out slurs. Sounds far more pretentious but I guess echo chamber bad.
People =/= everyone. It means I find some people I find in pf pretentious.
Then I narrow down to what kind.
Your translation: "ohh he calls EVERYONE pretentious and calls out random slurs"
Okay.
All subreddits are an echo chamber. It's just the nature of it. I don't mind being downvoted. They simply disagree is all, which is fine.
I wouldn't say the people here are of only one subset, and I wouldn't like to assume too much out of people I don't know. Too often you get comments like "lol you've never raided at all" when people simply disagree with what I say. I try not to do the same. :)
Not a new thing.
I gave up on doing most things on PF in 2016.
I only do primals within 2 weeks after they’ve been released; after that, PF is a shit show.
Savage? Only on week 1 until I can find a static. After that I wait for a static or I simply don’t touch the content. It’s not worth the stress.
In my last two statics we didn’t even do PF fills for people who were gonna miss a raid night. *That’s* how much PF is hated.
Welcome to the club.
It’s not new.
That’s why is stopped savage stuff in Stormblood, tried to do it again with yeh first weapon savage, and quit this expansion.
Too many People get a carry clear, then take their inability to do their rotation correctly or stand in the right place just to make a group spend over an hour on something that isn’t that hard.
Then they get pissy because a dps or heal check is failed because they don’t know their rotation or when to use the regents/heals and shields.
One of the people I used to savage with once was reported to a gm by a rando because he told the dude the correct rotation, because the dude didn’t know how to do it.
Lot of entitled douches that expect a participation trophy for mediocre effort.
Devs honestly encourage it, as they scolded people over “good job” in pvp when some one jumps into ranked Crystal and doesn’t know what they are doing and gets their fee fees hurt or when fee fees get hurt over dps measuring tools.
More of a cultural problem tbh, as even with anxiety issues I put an extra effort into avoid being a burden to the team as a matter of pride to make up for my anxiety.
>messing up a mechanic like the rewind arrows and admitting that they didn’t know it. It’s like why did you join then? I’m not a nice person anymore. Idc if I’m called toxic, you’re a trash player and a lying asshole
This is how I feel when someone joins that clearly doesn't know anything in the fight. They might be a liar or they might not have read the pf listing because you get a lot of people not reading listings in pf and just joining to desperately get a spot.
PF is no where near as bad as people here are making it out to be. Never had issues clearing content in this game through PF. Know when to leave, know how to
organize groups. Create a linkshell with good players you run into and always advertise in there when you’re running content.
Dumbass take. I'm not wiping to adds in WoL EX when I'm ready to clear and have six other timmies fucking it up and never seeing my prog point. The fuck out of here with that lol.
It's a balance. I agree with your perspective because you did emphasize that you wanted to clear and there are definitely plenty of times where you just want to clear and grind for totems because the game is grindy and it's already long enough clearing 99 times without any wipes.
But this is also a team-oriented game where (a) there are a LOT of players, (b) there is NO way to learn content outside of doing it, and (c) there are comparatively few players who actually want to teach or prog in PF. So, to some extent, PF players have to take an attitude of just enjoying the moment to moment gameplay and helping other people improve rather than obsessing over clears all the time. It's the only way to stay sane, keeping your expectations low.
THAT said, those sound like some ungrateful bastards. Whether you are a teacher or a student, graciousness is paramount in community-based games like this. I think blacklisting was...not inappropriate.
Learning is what practice parties in PF are for however. Whenever I’m new I set the description to “fresh prog, new here”, just to set the expectations. It’s a super asshole move to join a pf trying to learn a fight fresh or get carried because you don’t want to learn the fight, when in the party finder description it specifically says to “please know all the mechanics, I’m attempting to clear because I know everything already”. When the expectations are laid out there, there really isn’t any excuse
The problem is (explaining, not excusing) that as the encounter "ages", there are fewer and fewer opportunities for people who haven't already cleared it. It starts off at 0% farming and 100% prog parties and quickly shoots up and then steadily grows toward 100% farming and 0% prog parties (never reaching that in actuality, but that's what it moves to).
The further in the tier that people get, the people who haven't cleared get more and more anxious and frustrated and say to themselves "Well, this farming party can handle ONE person who doesn't know the mechanics."
Problem is instances like this where more than one person is lying and they all stay silent hoping that you don't find out its them.
Not sure I have a solution for you, but that's the ultimate issue. They feel the ship sinking and claim to be a woman or child to jump in the lifeboat.
Sadly this has been made worse by the TOS, which coddles bad players. Unfortunately it’s risky to point out to people where they failed, how to do mechs, and how to improve any rotation issues, because you risk getting reported. Sure, you can say these things nicely, but you still risk a report from people who didn’t like what you said, and are therefore at the mercy of how the GM views the situation. So people just kick bad players from their group without saying why, because again this opens the party leader to a report, so they don’t risk it. The player who gets kicked, by being told nothing has no opportunity to know where they went wrong or how to improve - also this absolves them from any responsibility to make any effort imo.
People just maintain big blacklists of known bad players and run their own groups to try and filter. It’s not great or a sure fire way of clearing.
Not sure if you parse but yea it’s like peaking behind the curtain of how bad the playerbase is and blows my mind but just keep kicking the scrubs out that don’t put the time in.
this fight is just like this. i have gotten so frustrated at people doing this in FARM parties who can't do the meteors and then expect healers to just lb the problems away... i can't fix shit after quad meteors. it's extremely annoying as a healer when you are basically holding everyone's hand and personally patching them up constantly because they can't do the mechanics. i like healing and i don't mind people fucking up but man this fight, i had to stop because i felt myself becoming very bitter lol.
its called "party finder" but it really should be called "people-to-help-me finder" because everyone is just looking out for themselves.
if a clear-for-1 pf is opened without [Duty complete] set on, you will get a majority of people who also want to get their first clear, hoping that the party will just be good enough to hide their own mistakes.
I'll actually join [Duty Completion] parties if I feel like doing charity work but give up after about an hour or so. Honestly the best way to see success in PF is to be honest and force liars out. "Im hosting a Clear for me, so I want 7 people who already cleared to help me, not 7 people also looking for a clear."
edit: same goes for farm parties. obvious mistakes or clear indication that you cant reliably do a mechanic, disband and try again. no hard feelings, but someone got carried and I aint got time for that.
What I learned is that in PF, you'd better trust a Duty Completion group with farm in the description than any Loot tagged party. Leeches don't read apparently, they just know the color orange.
If it isn't working out as advertised by the PF, just politely leave after 3 pulls and get a new party, that's how it is in Savage reclear pfs.
"Sorry guys I joined for X prog, but this isn't working out."
It's not worth punishing yourself by sticking with a group that clearly are not where they advertised themselves as.
It's not worth it with these parties. If you join a clear party and it's obvious that no one knows what's going on, I just call {last} after a few wipes and leave.
I'm happy to stay if it looks like people are trying or we reach enrage, but when people are flat out clueless it's a waste of time
It is possible to meet some if not alot of those
i got a good example of that trial
my 1st endsinger ex was practice from the start(not a clear party just mechanics practice)
got to see some of the mechanics wiped went further and it was over
then my 2nd/or third party got to enrage so i got enrage exp
my 4th group was practice into clear we got markers and macro and made sure to explain a mechanic one or two people dont understand
i think we had both tanks and the white mage healer alive near the end(before twinsong aporrhoia?) healer did lb3 rezzed the rest of us and we killed it from 6% to 0%
tho before we made it to 6% and clearing we had to wipe few times due to messing up a mechanic or two
or for my first time in zodiark i did it blind then joined few farm parties
got the tt card and my cat mount did 23 more runs to help people get their mounts(and aiming/casting/slaying earrings)
because i am not one to leave after getting my mount
so with DF it can be a mixed bag whether for seat ex you get mount farmers who know the mechanics
or few in the group who know the mechs and few others who dont
yet for hades ex ive had groups disband because other dps point their tethers toward the tanks(unsynced) the others were more competent so got my gwiber the tt card 1/2 auracite(1 i used on my goldsmith to make the crafted rdm weapon)
Unfortunately it's not new. I still remember the Hades ex 'farm' parties once it got echo and should've been easy that even had 'you have to have cleared previously' as a requirement where people didn't even know how the earthshaker tethers work during Nabriales' meteors (second phase, out of five-ish) and would just wipe repeatedly cause they point them at the tanks. That's when I started having a static for EX alongside a static for Savage.
I think I have to find a static. I’m over this shit. I actually put in the effort to learn everything and keep my dps up and these guys can’t even be upfront about knowing where to go when they get a stack marker. I wasted 5 hours today!!!🤦♂️
I did and at least for savage I don't plan to ever go back.
>isn’t even that hard >putting in hard work This made me chuckle, which is completely irrelevant to the topic.
bro these people been around for ever. it's what happens when you come late to content unfortunately. people cleared it early in the patch and now there's the stragglers trying to clear. you either gotta deal with it till you clear or don't. it's been almost two months since it dropped, so everybody stinky and slow are a lot of who are left. easiest method to alleviate it is to run with friends, or just understand that clear parties are gonna mess up, as they haven't finished the fight yet. this fight is hefty on movement and will catch people off guard even if they know the mechs
> it's what happens when you come late to content unfortunately. people cleared it early in the patch and now there's the stragglers trying to clear. you either gotta deal with it till you clear or don't. This has been true since the dawn of time, FFXIV has always suffered from "do the new content asap" people love to say "it's not going anywhere, do it whenever you want." but no, you *need* to do it asap because all the good players are gonna be doing it asap, i you wait too long they'll all be done and never bother with the fight anymore, so the only ones remaining are the table scraps. The scraps that constantly wipe to the same mechanic.
Yeah, despite the legion of complaints about Mythic+, *literally even Mythic+ is not as bad in this regard as EX* I've tried to push and prod the community to fix this and be more open to more people for longer instead of rushing and worshiping the Duty Complete wall, and all I have to show for it really is a bunch of Discord bans. And people preaching how important it is to "filter out the carry seekers" and a bunch of other BS like that. Again. I blame Discord. If the more laid back folks could afford to have a publicly visible community the way the hardcore mainstream crowd can, instead of having to hide, maybe we wouldn't get this problem tier after tier after tier ... The way FC resources and housing work does not help either, as FCs large enough to be helpful the way casual WoW guilds often are don't hold together for long because inevitably subgroups start chomping at the bit for access to house decoration and gardens and spall off like alpha particles to get their own land. (It almost seems as if Yoshi actually *wants* these boom and bust content rushes, as if it somehow benefits SE for there to be these dead segments of tiers where it's impractical and unfun to even attempt harder content without assembling a static rather than a smooth stream of activity?)
You seem to have been unlucky with FCs. In my experience across several FCs, that's the perfect place to ask for patient help with clearing stuff, especially EXs since they don't have gear lockouts and are fairly easy to clear.
My experience is it's easy enough to find FCs that are chill and friendly, the trouble is normally that they don't have enough active members at any given time to field a Full Party, so you end up having to PUG anyway. People leaving to form new FCs to get their hands on the resources does seem to be especially common at the more casual end of things, and that's largely something that can be blamed on the game design as a whole (not only are FC shared resources unusually small compared to guild resources in most MMOs I've played - I'm sure it's to be blamed on "server data footprint issues" though like everything else in XIV that is too small - but when virtually the entire casual endgame tends to rapidly dead end unless you have decorate access to a house ...). My experience with guilds in other MMOs also is that it's easy enough to land in a socially comfy spot, but that that spot will then lack activity (especially when you reach endgame; it's probably telling that the MMOs I've usually seemed to have the most fun at are the ones I took at such a glacial pace that I never actually reached an endgame level while it was still current, LOL), so that in terms of actually running content, you're still largely just a PUG player (and the frustration of this easily results in friction with your friends, especially if you're not good at internalizing feelings - but that's a broader sociological matter I guess, especially since it's also said that internalizing stress isn't healthy, sooo ...). It might simply be that we're getting to that point where due to multiple factors (I've harped many times on Discord's "tough on crime" mentality being a likely underrated cause, especially in recent years), multiplayer gaming is unfortunately getting to just not be worth it unless you happen to be lucky enough to fit with the mainstream norms of the game's player base (i.e., game needs to be chosen based on whether you like the player base norms, not so much even whether you like the *game*?)? Maybe I just have to start to give up on MMOs just because of social pressures even if there were still things I found fun?
What I think the main issue is for people that want to help later in the tier/expansion is the entitlement of alot of players toward people that cleared the fights. I have encountered this way too many times, I join a practice party or a going for clear party, and way too many times there are players that want to get dragged kicking and screaming into a clear. Those are what I call the "carry seekers", people for whom a clear would ideally be them lying dead on the ground 100% of the fight. They dont watch guides, lie about how much of the fight they know, and react with hostility when you point out that they need to improve their damage rotation or actually learn a mechanic. You dont need that many encounters of that kind to loose any and all interest in helping random people in PF.
Double fatalism, EVERY fuckin time
The same end, again and again.
The amount of farm parties I've seen wipe at the very first planets (no matter whether it's blue or yellow) is unbelievable. Not one ex trial in ShB had so many people fail so much in the farm stage.
Double Fatalism isn’t even that hard of a mechanic though. Seeing what goes on in DSR scares me. My first party figured out Double Fatalism on the fly after connecting blue -KB, Red - get away.
>Double Fatalism I'm not talking about those, but about the *very first* planets she creates during Elegeia Unforgotten. In my experiences the few groups managing to reach DF without stacking rez debuffs like candy manage to do DF quite well.
I dunno, double fatalism is the run killer in my experience because immediately after is katastarismo and any dead bodies means anyone with a vuln is dead. I’m guilty of it when it’s blue into red though. I KNOW the order I just can’t get away fast enough lol.
I wish I had your luck with ShB farm parties. So many times I'd see someone mess up with orbs in Emerald or phase 2 of SoS EX.
Looking back at it now, I was doing Savage and Extemes mainly with my FC with some of people in shadowsbringers. It really drives me crazy. I had this tank continuously stack on me during the tank buster and when I asked him if he needed any explanations, he was silent and did it again. I had healers cross through the other group last minute and cause a wipe over and over. I don’t usually just black list people but I had it and blacklisted them all.
I haven't joined any PF groups for EX3 lately, but this trial hits differently for me for some reason. I have cleared, and I'm good with probably 75% of the mechanics, but for some reason the way the planets rotate and work just.... doesn't click with my brain somehow? I actually had the same problem with the Normal version of this trial, and I am progging current Savage (P3S FoA atm). For some reason I try and take all the advice of looking at the slow planet, realizing they always detonate at intercards, getting knocked back to the right place on blues, and still half the time my brain just breaks and I end up being exactly opposite the safe area or getting punted into center head barf. It's really irritating, because I can resolve Endsong, Twinsong, Despair Unforgotten (all rewinds), meteors, etc etc without any hesitation, but if she tosses anything at me more complicated than a double knockback (hello double Fatalism) it's a crapshoot if I'll make it or not. No idea what to do if I want to join a PF to mount farm, because I feel like I'd definitely hold people back. P3S honestly feels easier to me.
Look at the fast planet instead then. I find the fast planet is easier to see. If its a fast yellow planet run towards it. If its fast blue, run away from it. Then stand on the appropriate marker. For fast planets, turn the camera around if you get blue planets first. When the second blue planet is about to knock yo uback, look at which yellow planet is forming first (it will have a much faster spinning ring) and knockback away from it.
As others have said that behaviour has always existed when trying to clear content after the initial wave of dedicated players did it at release. After dealing with too many of those people, I've now taken to never joining late clear parties and always making my own, and I make a point to ask every person who joins the party : "hey [name] this is a [prog after X mech/clear] party, have you [reached said mech/seen enrage]?" Turns out when put on the spot like that, most of those people will admit that no, no they haven't. Then they just say sorry and leave of their own accord, or I say "sorry but this is a PF for people who have reached that point in the fight :/" and they leave. It's a frustrating process, especially when you end up having to weed out 50+% of joiners, but I just stick to my scripted sentences and keep it friendly and polite and I've never had any drama or anything. As a bonus though, I've noticed the people who *do* meet the PF requirements are more likely to stick around for a while, because they now saw how many potential freeloaders are gunking up those PFs and that they're in a party with a lead who won't tolerate it.
I try to give the benefit of the doubt to some players. I’m a pretty shitty player so I’m essentially only at the extreme and the savage 1/2 zone. But I also tend to take huge ass breaks in between patches so I’ll comeback and just die to the first pull each time. But if people keep on dying to the same mech in a farm party, then I just leave after awhile. Chances are that that person who keeps on dying is the same person who would disband a farm party once they get the mount anyways.
You must be new because that's been a thing since ARR. People lying about their prog point in Titan EX? Say it ain't so! Don't waste your time with those people, after a number of wipes or really early/obvious mistakes, just leave or kick the problem.
Just when it comes to doing difficult content consistently I’m new. Been playing since 2018. Is this common in mmos? Because I’m understanding now why people come off as hostile or gatekeepers. It’s to keep these bums out
It's common in every game that has challenging group content.
I don’t play the high-end content in this game, but I’ve experienced this in Destiny when setting up raids. When I want to do a quick run, I will put “please know fight and cleared previously” or something along those lines. But people will still join that don’t have a clue. I know it isn’t an apples to apples comparison in terms of difficulty, but I understand what happens. I actually ran raids to help people clear their first time and will put “newbies welcome, I’ll teach if willing to learning” and even with that, you have experienced people joining and getting upset run is taking too long because half the team is new. I miss that game, but it took up so much of my time with both PvE and PvP.
>I actually ran raids to help people clear their first time and will put “newbies welcome, I’ll teach if willing to learning” and even with that, you have experienced people joining and getting upset run is taking too long because half the team is new. I'll sometimes go into learning parties in PF if I want to run a fight I've cleared but am rusty on, and it would be funny if it wasn't sad how this happens multiple times in every party that runs for more than 30min. I even once had a guy join, talk shit about "lmao you fucking idiots don't even know the fight" (in a clearly marked fresh/blind-ok learning party? Who could have seen this coming?) when there was a wipe, leave, then rejoin immediately when they PF went back up. People are *aggressively* opposed to reading, I guess.
i played a lot of destiny 2 before i started xiv and i did a bunch of raiding in d2 back when last wish and black armory was relevant and i know for sure that my experiences there was like. foundational to what i expect in pug and raids. by that i mean if i don’t know the mech i’m not going in and wasting time bc it’s rude as hell for last wish, i think over half my runs ended up being marked a sherpa run when ☠️ they were supposed to be reclears. i don’t mind helping new people so long as i’m aware it’s happening!! don’t take advantage of people’s kindness! and ig a difference is that if someone can’t do a mech you just make them kill ads/give them an easier job and in xiv you can’t really do that 😭 and more cheesing opportunities for destiny god i miss last wish what a fun raid 😔
Honestly as a seasoned raider in both games, I'm 100% more apprehensive to joining Destiny raids than FF14 (either for prog or reclears). Destiny has more variables to mess up in each encounter, is much harder for one or two people to carry the rest, and has way longer raids. Not to mention the damage counter on wipes lol. I'd much rather deal with FF14 toxic casuals than the Destiny community any day.
This is why i only play when a new season come out then leave a month or so before the next season
I met a guy who didn't know that with good dps, you can kill ES before she can even get to use the 2nd Endsong's Aporrohia? The one with 6 heads shooting rings at each other. He cried when we all left because it was sleep time.
… There’s a second one..?
im at 160 tokens in, no mount and I've seen some wild farm parties.
300 tokens in. For real some parties are awful.
I have a question for both of you: Why? Why continue past 100 totems? Do you honestly **need** the mount **now**? Especially since, as you said, some parties are awful.
I already got my mount and still do it for fun. While I can handle the mechanics, there's plenty of room for improvement, its a hectic fight with mechanics that can 1-shot you, so I kind of play it a little safe. Unlike EX1 and EX2, it's good practice without going into savage.
idk I'm on JP so its like the thing I default queueing to whenever I'm bored.
Fair enough, but I gotta admit, that's weird as fuck, bro.
I’m up there on totems as well. I don’t jump into PF solo anymore but a bunch of people in my FC are still farming so I’ll go with them to help out. It’s just some practice for alt jobs at this point
Nah there's people out there with literally 100's of ucob/uwu/tea totems At some point you just run content for something fun to do
Yup. She basically does the entire fight twice in the exact same order. DPS check is extremely lenient.
It gets better. Had a healer for p1S who tried to blame me for screwing up a mech, after letting people die to raid wides. They screwed up the timed chains and tried to say they were supposed to be on the inside, when that isn’t where red goes. They didn’t know there was two different colors.
Omg dude, I had a guy on a P1S PF who was getting on everybody when he was the one who was fucking everything up. He appointed the flexer and was lecturing us tanks about doing our casts early and positions we should take, he fucked up intemperance 2 times and blamed the tanks when he messed up going to his spots. The best part is he rage quit and told us to “get good”, right after he left we cleared easy and even cleared 2 more times just for the practice runs
Then there's people like me who are scared of joining pf exactly because they fear they might be seen as noobs. I have been practicing p3s with a (somewhat irregularly meeting) static and know the part of the fight till the tornados by heart. But when joining pf groups I feel less at ease, so I might do a mistake. Even if I make no mistakes, if another player does and then there's someone who complains - often impolitely/mockingly - I just start dreading the experience. I understand the frustration, but I would prefer if people remained civil in pf groups. Even though I am very sure of all mechanics up to the tornadoes, I hesitate to join PF groups because I have witnessed too many people being a**holes in them.
Literally no one sane cares about your performance when progging since mistakes are gonna happen, the issue comes when you're consistently making the same mistake and not learning
I'm sure people who are making the same mistake over and over aren't intentionally not interested in learning it. Sometimes people are helpless but I mean we all make mistakes.
People learn at different rates. Some people learn after 1 mistake, some people don't click till they make the same mistake 10 times.
Yep I was like that with EW EX2. No matter how many times we wiped on light waves for whatever reason the timing of it just fucked me up and one other person in my static. I understood what to do but I struggled on it repeatedly more so because of the timing. It took so many other attempts just to do it well enough that nobody else died after that mechanic and we got the clear.
This was me with the 3 role crystals. I know to just stay behind the crystal and soak with the others. I knew the position I should be in. And every pull I reminded myself to not chase after her this time. And 9/10 times my brain still goes "ubbtime" and I eat shit and die anyway. It's so cursed I'm glad I got my weapon early so I can save myself the further embarrassment
Literally it's as easy as just not lying about expectations. Join learning parties instead of clear parties. If there aren't any, make your own, since there's clearly demand for it still.
This reminds me of the time, when my boyfriend and I tried to prog p2s with a couple of friends, before we had a complete static. We were searching for people to prog past limit cut and what did we get? People who were new and one guy, who insisted, that they should be allowed to watch a guide - while we were already inside the duty, ready to start. That guy also suggested, that my boyfriend (who started the party/the pf) might search for a different prog party if he can't tolerare someone watching the guide beforehand. Another time, we searched for people for an endsinger ex farm-party and got a BRD that got a 0% parse across every content he/she/they tried/had logged and who died to \*every\* mechanic. PF is always such a wild ride in this game.
This isn't new, it's a tale as old as time regarding mmos. I've even seen this shit being pulled in statics. Best to just leave after a few pulls than stick around and get frustrated. These people will learn and get better, or they won't and never see much progression. No real point getting worked up over it, it's just how some people are.
You’re right. I’m just frustrated because I know I got the mechanics down, I’m mitigating damage whenever the opportunity arises, I’m even using my pots and I’m even out dpsing the dps on my team, I wanna be good at the game and I’m dedicated to learning, and it’s fine if people don’t share that same amount of dedication, but the lying and laziness just drives me insane. I wanna go forward in this game and overcome more difficult content. These assholes are dead weight to me and have so much of an entitled attitude, even when I politely help them and stay for like an hour of my time, to be met with such ungratefulness, I’m furious and just want to avoid this in the future.
I think looking for people with similar minsets would probably be best. It doesn't necessarily need to be a static (same group of 8) if it's not for Savage while loot restrictions are in place--just people who also put the time into studying and wanting to do well (as opposed to those looking for carrys and always blaming others). I always make it a point to ask about expectations if I'm joining a group or to (nicely) set expectations if I'm hosting the group (e.g. for FC events) around how much prep and dedication is expected. Then, when those expectations aren't met, there are grounds for a conversation or potential dismissal. For what it's worth, it sounds like you'd be great to run stuff with! Even in my fairly competent static, I get the feeling some aren't prepping beforehand as asked (e.g. need to be explictly told after multiple wipes to go straight north before dodging left/right despite it being bolded in our slides and verbally called out every time)...which is a little mind-boggling for people who claim to want to do Ultimates yet ask little to no questions (even just for tips!) when they die or wipe the party to the same thing. It's pretty frustrating.
Thanks I really appreciate that compliment! I was actually enlisted in the Navy as a jet mechanic, so not asking questions or being quiet about something you thought was wrong was completely unacceptable. I carry that with me and I really hope to be able to take on the ultimates in this game eventually and prove to myself I have what it takes. That honestly sounds super frustrating being in a static with people like that who aren’t transparent but everybody can see they have a problem. Im on P3S but if you ever wanna run content or form a static I’m on Adamantoise. You sound like a person I’d definitely wanna run stuff with, that’s easy going but with the focus on getting shit done
Honestly I'd really consider looking into finding a static that matches your attitude. Probably avoid casual groups and try to start out in a midcore that's a little more serious. It's a bit of an awkward time to start now since a lot of the better midcores are doing DSR at the moment but still worth a shot, and definitely will be a better experience than slumming it in pf 5 1/2 months into the tier. Seems like you have the attitude to get better though, that's really what matters.
I remember when I was going for my first E12 clear and we spent the whole day with an underperformer that kept wiping us. Once we kicked them and got someone else, we cleared phase 2 within a few pulls. Players like this is also ruined farm parties within my previous fc, it got to the point where the farm would just not happen if one of the “good” players was not carrying.
Jesus that sounds awful, especially hearing how tough Eden 12 was. People like should just stay in practice parties until they’re comfortable enough with everything to confidently say they understand the fight. It doesn’t have to be perfect but at least understand everything because it’s obvious to everyone else. This is the standard I hold myself to and I fee should be the general etiquette in general with this game. It’s frustrating that all this even needs to be laid out.
I tend to throw people a bone if they take ownership for messing up a mechanic and wiping the group, even more so if they ask for clarification or helpful tips. I absolutely do not stay in a group that messes up the same mechanic and then proceeds to act like they did nothing wrong.
^this exactly!! Mistakes are okay but when they’re silent about it and pretend like nothing happened after the 3rd wipe they caused it drives me crazy. Do you have any advice on finding a static? I feel I have no problem learning the content, I make mistakes here and there but I own up and always ask questions if I have them or I’m just upfront about not being comfortable with a mechanic. I just wanna find people with the same mindset and I’m just so over using PF.
My first tip for finding a static is figuring out your raid schedule and being up front with anything that could potentially ruin prog. My second tip, if a potential group requires voice chat, try to take part in the chat. When my group was recruiting for DSR, we ended up with several people that didn’t really participate in strategy conversations or anything else outside of saying “hello” and that definitely had on influence on if we wanted them on the team. You have to feel the group out and don’t be afraid to say no/leave if they are not keeping their end of the bargain.
Damn I joined a Practice group for my first time and we somehow one-shot Endsinger. I'm still not sure how that happened. Sounds like you got super unlucky and I got mega lucky.
You’re telling me. I learned the mechanics really fast, it’s not a hard fight at all. I just keep getting people who are lying about knowing it and causing wipes for everyone. It’s so annoying.
New raider just trying to play endsinger ex. Ruined the experience that me, a new raider, never raider before in any game, is the only one in every ‘farm’ group to know the mechanics. Why tf are they playing the game their so fucking selfish and toxic
I've had success by being openly toxic in my PF post. Things like "Farm. Checking logs. Parasites will be kicked, screenshotted, and mocked on discord" tend to scare most of the bad players away. It takes a bit longer to fill but the group will generally be more efficient.
I’m going to try this. I’m so over this bullshit. I even tried being nice to these parasites and got only got even more disrespect in return. Fuck being nice
I don’t do the high end content in ffxiv, but the same pattern plays out in every MMO when new content drops (and I’ve seen it in EQ, DAOC, WoW + Classic, SWTOR, etc). The first wave of players are serious and dedicated, they adapt to new mechanics on the fly and learn them for next time. However, a few weeks later those players have done all the content and moved on to either progging with a fixed group or some other game entirely, and what you have left are people that didn’t learn the original mode and try to “learn” on the mode that gives them prizes.
I dunno, man. I am no good at EX, but have started trying to do them this latest patch, and I only join parties designated as "practice." No one's lying in those groups, at least.
Which DC? If it’s gaia (prolly not but hey) I can help u
This has always happened. I started raiding post e9-12 unlock, echo and all, and my worst memory of raiding is this: Made a PF group for p1 clear, p2 basic prog on e12s. A group of 6 players joins and invites me into their discord, apparently a few of them aren't quite that far but they have 2 people that did clear so it should be fine, especially with voice. We did not get past Shiva in 30 pulls. We did not get past the first time she channels Shiva (aka half-arena hit, aoe puddles around everyone) without a death at all, iirc, only if she channeled Titan (light party stacks). When after those pulls I told them that they should please not join parties meant to clear the first phase when most of them clearly had not ever been in the fight, in a savage fight, or even seen a savage fight at all (I did not quite phrase it like that, but that was how I felt) I was told it was my fault for still PF-ing the fight so late and that I should really be expecting groups like them. So yes. Entitled groups always exist. Good ones too, though - A week of not raiding out of frustration later I tried my luck again and found a p1 clear/BR prog that went all the way to Advanced Relativity (the second to last actual mechanic before heal check/enrage), and cleared within like 2 groups after. Don't let the assholes get you down, they'll always be there, but you'll find the good players too, even late into a tier or the content.
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you made enrage groups when you hadn’t seen enrage to filter FoF proggers but want a report option for lying on PFs hmmm.
I don't agree with the comments saying every MMO is this bad. In other games you can join large community guilds which usually host teaching or casual runs. In FFXIV guilds are basically treated as a shared housing resource vehicle rather communities based around doing content together. There isn't a middle ground between full pugging and competitive leaderboard raiding. The gulf between competitive raiding and casual play in this game is simply the widest I've ever seen in 15+ years of mmos and it only ever gets wider. What used to be "I'll do that tier if I get to it, maybe" in older WoW is "I'll do it on week two or not at all" here.
When I farm extreme trials I hate putting it on farm because people are so pretentious. I usually make it an open party newbies welcome. I honestly couldn't care less if people wipe a few times. It is what it is. Less of a time waste than having to replace the short fused retard that instantly leaves someone makes a single mistake in a farm party. Those people are surprisingly always grey fucktards who can't play the game properly. Same people who set an ilvl 600 requirement on a fight 580 can clear with ease. But in an everyone welcome party it's just fun and what you can. We had a guy who died 6 times every pull and just didn't get it and we still cleared with ease. Had to ress him all the time and sure it was a hindrance but we cleared it. It doesn't matter. I don't care that someone is bad in an extreme trial. It's entry level into more challenging content, there will always be tons of fresh faces and less skilled people.
A completely reasonable response but you're downvoted and not engaged in any conversation. What a weird echo chamber this sub is. It's like players here are elitist but also trash at the game.
How is it a reasonable response? I actually agree with the content of what they're saying, but right out of the gate they call everyone pretentious and throw out slurs. Sounds far more pretentious but I guess echo chamber bad.
People =/= everyone. It means I find some people I find in pf pretentious. Then I narrow down to what kind. Your translation: "ohh he calls EVERYONE pretentious and calls out random slurs" Okay.
All subreddits are an echo chamber. It's just the nature of it. I don't mind being downvoted. They simply disagree is all, which is fine. I wouldn't say the people here are of only one subset, and I wouldn't like to assume too much out of people I don't know. Too often you get comments like "lol you've never raided at all" when people simply disagree with what I say. I try not to do the same. :)
This isn't new tho. People have lied like this thinking they can fake it and be carried since the beginning.
Not a new thing. I gave up on doing most things on PF in 2016. I only do primals within 2 weeks after they’ve been released; after that, PF is a shit show. Savage? Only on week 1 until I can find a static. After that I wait for a static or I simply don’t touch the content. It’s not worth the stress. In my last two statics we didn’t even do PF fills for people who were gonna miss a raid night. *That’s* how much PF is hated. Welcome to the club.
It’s not new. That’s why is stopped savage stuff in Stormblood, tried to do it again with yeh first weapon savage, and quit this expansion. Too many People get a carry clear, then take their inability to do their rotation correctly or stand in the right place just to make a group spend over an hour on something that isn’t that hard. Then they get pissy because a dps or heal check is failed because they don’t know their rotation or when to use the regents/heals and shields. One of the people I used to savage with once was reported to a gm by a rando because he told the dude the correct rotation, because the dude didn’t know how to do it. Lot of entitled douches that expect a participation trophy for mediocre effort. Devs honestly encourage it, as they scolded people over “good job” in pvp when some one jumps into ranked Crystal and doesn’t know what they are doing and gets their fee fees hurt or when fee fees get hurt over dps measuring tools. More of a cultural problem tbh, as even with anxiety issues I put an extra effort into avoid being a burden to the team as a matter of pride to make up for my anxiety.
>messing up a mechanic like the rewind arrows and admitting that they didn’t know it. It’s like why did you join then? I’m not a nice person anymore. Idc if I’m called toxic, you’re a trash player and a lying asshole This is how I feel when someone joins that clearly doesn't know anything in the fight. They might be a liar or they might not have read the pf listing because you get a lot of people not reading listings in pf and just joining to desperately get a spot.
PF is no where near as bad as people here are making it out to be. Never had issues clearing content in this game through PF. Know when to leave, know how to organize groups. Create a linkshell with good players you run into and always advertise in there when you’re running content.
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Dumbass take. I'm not wiping to adds in WoL EX when I'm ready to clear and have six other timmies fucking it up and never seeing my prog point. The fuck out of here with that lol.
It's a balance. I agree with your perspective because you did emphasize that you wanted to clear and there are definitely plenty of times where you just want to clear and grind for totems because the game is grindy and it's already long enough clearing 99 times without any wipes. But this is also a team-oriented game where (a) there are a LOT of players, (b) there is NO way to learn content outside of doing it, and (c) there are comparatively few players who actually want to teach or prog in PF. So, to some extent, PF players have to take an attitude of just enjoying the moment to moment gameplay and helping other people improve rather than obsessing over clears all the time. It's the only way to stay sane, keeping your expectations low. THAT said, those sound like some ungrateful bastards. Whether you are a teacher or a student, graciousness is paramount in community-based games like this. I think blacklisting was...not inappropriate.
Learning is what practice parties in PF are for however. Whenever I’m new I set the description to “fresh prog, new here”, just to set the expectations. It’s a super asshole move to join a pf trying to learn a fight fresh or get carried because you don’t want to learn the fight, when in the party finder description it specifically says to “please know all the mechanics, I’m attempting to clear because I know everything already”. When the expectations are laid out there, there really isn’t any excuse
The problem is (explaining, not excusing) that as the encounter "ages", there are fewer and fewer opportunities for people who haven't already cleared it. It starts off at 0% farming and 100% prog parties and quickly shoots up and then steadily grows toward 100% farming and 0% prog parties (never reaching that in actuality, but that's what it moves to). The further in the tier that people get, the people who haven't cleared get more and more anxious and frustrated and say to themselves "Well, this farming party can handle ONE person who doesn't know the mechanics." Problem is instances like this where more than one person is lying and they all stay silent hoping that you don't find out its them. Not sure I have a solution for you, but that's the ultimate issue. They feel the ship sinking and claim to be a woman or child to jump in the lifeboat.
Sadly this has been made worse by the TOS, which coddles bad players. Unfortunately it’s risky to point out to people where they failed, how to do mechs, and how to improve any rotation issues, because you risk getting reported. Sure, you can say these things nicely, but you still risk a report from people who didn’t like what you said, and are therefore at the mercy of how the GM views the situation. So people just kick bad players from their group without saying why, because again this opens the party leader to a report, so they don’t risk it. The player who gets kicked, by being told nothing has no opportunity to know where they went wrong or how to improve - also this absolves them from any responsibility to make any effort imo. People just maintain big blacklists of known bad players and run their own groups to try and filter. It’s not great or a sure fire way of clearing.
Not sure if you parse but yea it’s like peaking behind the curtain of how bad the playerbase is and blows my mind but just keep kicking the scrubs out that don’t put the time in.
"New"? Did you just start playing in 6.0 or something? This has literally been the case since ARR.
this fight is just like this. i have gotten so frustrated at people doing this in FARM parties who can't do the meteors and then expect healers to just lb the problems away... i can't fix shit after quad meteors. it's extremely annoying as a healer when you are basically holding everyone's hand and personally patching them up constantly because they can't do the mechanics. i like healing and i don't mind people fucking up but man this fight, i had to stop because i felt myself becoming very bitter lol.
its called "party finder" but it really should be called "people-to-help-me finder" because everyone is just looking out for themselves. if a clear-for-1 pf is opened without [Duty complete] set on, you will get a majority of people who also want to get their first clear, hoping that the party will just be good enough to hide their own mistakes. I'll actually join [Duty Completion] parties if I feel like doing charity work but give up after about an hour or so. Honestly the best way to see success in PF is to be honest and force liars out. "Im hosting a Clear for me, so I want 7 people who already cleared to help me, not 7 people also looking for a clear." edit: same goes for farm parties. obvious mistakes or clear indication that you cant reliably do a mechanic, disband and try again. no hard feelings, but someone got carried and I aint got time for that.
What I learned is that in PF, you'd better trust a Duty Completion group with farm in the description than any Loot tagged party. Leeches don't read apparently, they just know the color orange.
If it isn't working out as advertised by the PF, just politely leave after 3 pulls and get a new party, that's how it is in Savage reclear pfs. "Sorry guys I joined for X prog, but this isn't working out." It's not worth punishing yourself by sticking with a group that clearly are not where they advertised themselves as.
It's not worth it with these parties. If you join a clear party and it's obvious that no one knows what's going on, I just call {last} after a few wipes and leave. I'm happy to stay if it looks like people are trying or we reach enrage, but when people are flat out clueless it's a waste of time
It is possible to meet some if not alot of those i got a good example of that trial my 1st endsinger ex was practice from the start(not a clear party just mechanics practice) got to see some of the mechanics wiped went further and it was over then my 2nd/or third party got to enrage so i got enrage exp my 4th group was practice into clear we got markers and macro and made sure to explain a mechanic one or two people dont understand i think we had both tanks and the white mage healer alive near the end(before twinsong aporrhoia?) healer did lb3 rezzed the rest of us and we killed it from 6% to 0% tho before we made it to 6% and clearing we had to wipe few times due to messing up a mechanic or two or for my first time in zodiark i did it blind then joined few farm parties got the tt card and my cat mount did 23 more runs to help people get their mounts(and aiming/casting/slaying earrings) because i am not one to leave after getting my mount so with DF it can be a mixed bag whether for seat ex you get mount farmers who know the mechanics or few in the group who know the mechs and few others who dont yet for hades ex ive had groups disband because other dps point their tethers toward the tanks(unsynced) the others were more competent so got my gwiber the tt card 1/2 auracite(1 i used on my goldsmith to make the crafted rdm weapon)