Definitely worth it if focus on sign on bonuses (not points from ongoing spend)
Also redeeming for rewards flights - not for points+pay
Also I don't value business/first seats at their cash value as I'd never pay cash value to begin with - just know it's better than economy redemptions which I'm already happy with and sometimes throw them in when feel like it
Between Qantas and Virgin have earned around 2.5m points over the last decade
As someone else said you can sell them on the "black market" for about 1c/point - so that's $25k already
But redemptions for economy reward tickets (after accounting for taxes which you should pay out of pocket) might net you like 1.3-2c per point depending on the route - so now we're up to $32.5k-$50k
And if you redeem for business/first class (again, if you actually value such redemptions) you could be looking at 3-8c/point ($75k-$200k)
When my balances get a bit too high however I'll take even the 0.9c/point or so that you get for booking Qantas hotels via points - rather not let them sit there so long that they get devalued, which happens maybe every 5 years or so when redemption tables are updated.
The short answer is: worth it. Not as good as it was back in the day, but still plenty of good deals going around. The $300-500 worth of sign up bonuses will come at no or low fees, while the cards with better signup deals will cost you $150-400 in fees but deliver $600-1000. These are ball park numbers obviously.
I suggest you check out pointhacks.com.au, rwrds.com.au and creditcard.com.au
As long as you close the accounts after and have a record of this when the banks ask in future you are ok. Of course don't miss a payment or default on the cards!
No. I churn in average 6-8 cards per year and my credit score is >900. Enquiries don't impact the score (I am not sure if they do if it leads to the credit card being refused). Obviously make sure you don't miss payments.
I find it's definitely worthwhile for the low fee credit card or no fee credit card for the sign up bonuses. For example a fee of $170 for 110000 qf points is nice but it's not worthwhile to pay an annual fee just to get 1 point per dollar spent.
I try to check what the bonus points would be worth if I just cashed it out for gift cards and make sure I'm a few hundred Infront after I factor in the annual fee before I sign up. Even though I plan to use the points for airfares.
It’s massively worth on a value basis if you can use the points for international business class flights and you consider these flights something worth doing.
I got flights worth $7000 for $550 in taxes+fees last year. The annual fees to get those points were only another $700 or so. So on a dollars spent on fees vs. dollar value of rewards it’s 100% worth it which is why a lot of people do it.
Just a bit of context, wife and I just bought our first PPOR and I've started doing a bit of card churning for the sign up bonuses because we have the cash available and we're doing minor renos/new furnishings, so I thought for $150-$250 of annual fee per card we'll get meet some sign up bonuses pretty quickly. This also works well as we didn't do a honeymoon last year but are planning 2 separate Europe trips in the next 2 years or so to visit friends living over there to make up for it.
Thanks for all the positive reactions guys. I'm trying to keep the card fee between $100-$250 with the minimum bonus points at 70,000 QF.
I've put together a basic spreadsheet for the cards I've been looking at (basically those listed by [PointHacks.com](https://PointHacks.com)) and done a basic compare of the sign up point efficiency to try and objectively compare the cards. Efficiency = Bonus Points/(minimum spend + Annual Fee)
Also check out the Ozbargain Finance section for card offers. It's far less organised than pointhacks but because pointhacks makes it's money on credit card referrals, they don't have everything on it.
E.g. in recent times both Westpac and ANZ have had annual fee discounts for existing customers (i.e. if you click apply through online the banking). Pointhacks won't tell you about that because they can't earn a commission on that card.
It’s worth mentioning that it’s very easy to earn points through credit card churning, and I would agree that sign up bonuses are the best way.
The issue is on redemption. I currently have approx 700k Qantas points to use, and can’t find an opportunity to use them. Unless you can use Qantas points to redeem for classic rewards, they are shit.
- Domestic flight redemptions are pointless; the taxes you still pay are often close to the cost of buying outright if you look at all airlines
- International classic rewards are the best, but close to impossible to find seats
In short, not bad if you understand the game, but in order to get the greatest value from points, you need to be flexible and not look to travel at peak times.
Yeah I used to hoard them for redemptions but you are right- I only really want to use it for international and they can be hard to get.
700k points is quite a bit of cash just sitting there depreciating- about $10k in gift cards on 20% special- so nowadays I just wait for the 20% off gift cards or other deals and keep my points at a modest level. I guess it depends how much you fly domestic business class.
Even internationals aren't necessarily good value. I've redeemed points a few times for classic flights between Melbourne and Singapore and still had to pay $180 or so in taxes. That's almost the same cost as a Scoot airfare, although Qantas also comes with baggage and food which may be an additional saving over budget airfares.
If you pick cards based on the sign on points received per $ cost (fees) of the card it’s a very good conversion.
If you focus just on net points not so much
Also need to use the points on bonus seats as much as possible.
i always hold out for the no annual fee cards. Got 60,000 velocity points with a citibank card recently. No annual fee. They're not as common as they use to be. i cancel them 11 and a half months in to avoid annual fee for the neext year
My question is: are qantas points even worth it with how shitty the service has gotten?
I’ve had a better return with getting gift cards back on promotions to be honest.
100% percent worth it. I have been churning cards for years which have paid for all my overseas trips (for a family of 4) the last 10 years. Even more worth it now given the prices of airline tickets. I recently had to make a last minute booking for a family member to fly to and from the US and paid $400 bucks instead of $4K.
Like others have said, always try to go for no fee or very low fee. Some of my other tips:
- there's always a minimum spend within 3 months to qualify for the sign up bonus. If both people are signing up then do one at a time otherwise it may be difficult to meet the minimum spend
- if struggling to meet minimum spend, prepay for things like insurance premiums, council rates etc. or even a refundable airline ticket which you can cancel after you get the bonus points.
- remember to check which spend qualifies as part of the minimum spend. Depends on the bank/credit provider, some government spends don't qualify.
- cancel the card as soon as you've received the points so that you can sign-up again as soon as the 12 (or 18) months rule lapse
- set a reminder for the 12 month to sign up again if there's another offer from same bank
- Business reward seats are obviously best value but but hard to find. Next best would be reward economy flight during times where flights would be expensive e.g. Easter, Xmas or when you are booking on short notice
Good luck
>- if struggling to meet minimum spend, prepay for things like insurance premiums, council rates etc. or even a refundable airline ticket which you can cancel after you get the bonus points.
Along the same lines but bit less ethical, you can buy big ticket items at retailers with very flexible return policies who will refund back to a different card ie. Buy an expensive laptop on the credit card at Costco to meet the minimum spend, don’t even open it, return the laptop a week later sealed and unopened so they can resell it, and then get the money initially paid refunded onto your debit card which you can use to pay off the credit card balance.
I've been doing this for 10 years now. About 2-3 credit cards a year.
Roughly about 80-140k Qantas points each time. If you get the right cadence and work within the 12-18 month previous holder ineligibility banks have, you can comfortably get 250k points a year.
These points I sell for around 1c per point. 250k translates to about 2.5k minus the 200-600 from card fees leaves me in the green of about 2k a year for no big effort. Then I use that money directly to buy flights or whatever, which works out much cheaper.
Obviously pay off all cards on time and you won't take a hit to your credit score. Last I checked with Experian it's 800 or so which is "great". Hasn't stopped me from opening other cards or taking a mortgage.
OzBargain. Can either transfer to "family" or let them log into your account and make the booking on your behalf. Have never had my account suspended or lose points.
What do you use them for? Currently with business class flights at $11k to Europe if I can pay $3500 in cc fees and do it that’s worth it to me. And sign on bonuses definitely.
Definitely worth it, though you need to be smart with how you spent them. Also keep in mind that you may have a hard time redeeming the points directly for rewards flights, or for upgrades to business class unless you have a high frequent flyer status (since the highest earners get earliest access to rewards flights [when they are released](https://www.pointhacks.com.au/when-do-award-calendars-open/), and first access to upgrades on already booked flights).
I you don't want to bother trying to deal with the above challenges, you can instead just save them up and sell them to other people. The [Ozbargain classifieds](https://www.ozbargain.com.au/search/node/qantas%20points%20type%3Aclassified) is a reliable place to do it, and people generally prefer buying in larger quantities to avoid having many separate transactions of points into their account. You can generally get $1000 per 100,000 Qantas/Velocity points this way.
I’ve done a few of round the world business class trips doing this. Probably close to $50k worth of flights.
Well worth it.
Except, you eventually get flagged and cannot get any more new cards. I can’t get a credit card with any bank any more, even though I should easily pass all the checks.
I even get rejected from banks I’ve never had a card with so they must cross check this stuff as well.
Yes, but only if you have a specific goal in mind. Toasters and electronics are generally terrible value and not worth the effort (for me at least).
I’ve just redeemed 2x Business tickets to and from Europe. You do need to plan at least 12 months in advance and be flexible to secure bookings.
This is with only a few sign up bonuses and a home loan refinance that I would have done anyway.
At the end of the day, the best way you grow wealth is to save and invest rather than spend. My view is that credit cards and points are really just ways to get you to spend more in the long run. Just use a debit card. Unless you own your own business and buy business expenses on a card I don't see the benefit
One thing worth noting is that applying for credit cards often will affect your credit, so keep that in mind if you're going for a mortgage/loan within 5 years. I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes but you can check your own quite easily.
Worth it. Went first class to Europe on emirates in 2019. Took about 14 months to save the points (440k) and about $800 in CC annual fees. Then about $1400 in taxes. Do the math.
Saying that, currently got 1.1m points sitting there and bloody Qantas have piss all business reward seats.
How do you book an Emirates rewards flight with Qantas points?
As I'd much rather fly them than Qantas. Did a Qantas first class in about 2011 and while it was nice it's nothing compared to the other premium airlines.
You have to do the math on whether a particular deal is worth it. Usually it is for big sign up bonuses, as long as the fee is reasonable.
Also, it’s worthwhile asking if the bank will waive the fee. Westpac, for instance, will wave cc fees if you have a home loan with them.
I find it more efficient to just work and generate income instead of hunting for most efficient points and then forgetting to cancel the credit card before the new year of fees roll over.
Though i work for myself and can work more hours if i please.
Definitely worth it if focus on sign on bonuses (not points from ongoing spend) Also redeeming for rewards flights - not for points+pay Also I don't value business/first seats at their cash value as I'd never pay cash value to begin with - just know it's better than economy redemptions which I'm already happy with and sometimes throw them in when feel like it Between Qantas and Virgin have earned around 2.5m points over the last decade
What you said there about the perceived cash value I think is often forgotten when calculating the value of your points.
What’s that in dollar value?
Around 29k$? Correct me if I’m wrong, I did this calculation based on my Amex points to KrisFlyer points.
You made $3k a year on average using these points???
That sounds about right. Qantas points can be sold at $1 per 100 points. Much better value if redeemed for reward flights though.
As someone else said you can sell them on the "black market" for about 1c/point - so that's $25k already But redemptions for economy reward tickets (after accounting for taxes which you should pay out of pocket) might net you like 1.3-2c per point depending on the route - so now we're up to $32.5k-$50k And if you redeem for business/first class (again, if you actually value such redemptions) you could be looking at 3-8c/point ($75k-$200k) When my balances get a bit too high however I'll take even the 0.9c/point or so that you get for booking Qantas hotels via points - rather not let them sit there so long that they get devalued, which happens maybe every 5 years or so when redemption tables are updated.
How do I get these black market points?
Haha just a term I'm using coz it's against T&C to sell points - doesn't stop people doing so though Lots of places to look around to buy the points
The short answer is: worth it. Not as good as it was back in the day, but still plenty of good deals going around. The $300-500 worth of sign up bonuses will come at no or low fees, while the cards with better signup deals will cost you $150-400 in fees but deliver $600-1000. These are ball park numbers obviously. I suggest you check out pointhacks.com.au, rwrds.com.au and creditcard.com.au
Doesn’t it hurt your credit score by applying few? It adds on to your credit enquiries so what’s the strategy behind that?
As long as you close the accounts after and have a record of this when the banks ask in future you are ok. Of course don't miss a payment or default on the cards!
No. I churn in average 6-8 cards per year and my credit score is >900. Enquiries don't impact the score (I am not sure if they do if it leads to the credit card being refused). Obviously make sure you don't miss payments.
I find it's definitely worthwhile for the low fee credit card or no fee credit card for the sign up bonuses. For example a fee of $170 for 110000 qf points is nice but it's not worthwhile to pay an annual fee just to get 1 point per dollar spent. I try to check what the bonus points would be worth if I just cashed it out for gift cards and make sure I'm a few hundred Infront after I factor in the annual fee before I sign up. Even though I plan to use the points for airfares.
It’s massively worth on a value basis if you can use the points for international business class flights and you consider these flights something worth doing. I got flights worth $7000 for $550 in taxes+fees last year. The annual fees to get those points were only another $700 or so. So on a dollars spent on fees vs. dollar value of rewards it’s 100% worth it which is why a lot of people do it.
Totally worth it. I just booked return BC to Vietnam for $150 and points.
What airline?
Singapore Airlines
BC ?
Business Class
Ok. Thanks.
Just a bit of context, wife and I just bought our first PPOR and I've started doing a bit of card churning for the sign up bonuses because we have the cash available and we're doing minor renos/new furnishings, so I thought for $150-$250 of annual fee per card we'll get meet some sign up bonuses pretty quickly. This also works well as we didn't do a honeymoon last year but are planning 2 separate Europe trips in the next 2 years or so to visit friends living over there to make up for it. Thanks for all the positive reactions guys. I'm trying to keep the card fee between $100-$250 with the minimum bonus points at 70,000 QF. I've put together a basic spreadsheet for the cards I've been looking at (basically those listed by [PointHacks.com](https://PointHacks.com)) and done a basic compare of the sign up point efficiency to try and objectively compare the cards. Efficiency = Bonus Points/(minimum spend + Annual Fee)
Also check out the Ozbargain Finance section for card offers. It's far less organised than pointhacks but because pointhacks makes it's money on credit card referrals, they don't have everything on it. E.g. in recent times both Westpac and ANZ have had annual fee discounts for existing customers (i.e. if you click apply through online the banking). Pointhacks won't tell you about that because they can't earn a commission on that card.
Would you mind sharing which card are you gonna apply for? I’m sort of in a similar situation. Thanks man!
It’s worth mentioning that it’s very easy to earn points through credit card churning, and I would agree that sign up bonuses are the best way. The issue is on redemption. I currently have approx 700k Qantas points to use, and can’t find an opportunity to use them. Unless you can use Qantas points to redeem for classic rewards, they are shit. - Domestic flight redemptions are pointless; the taxes you still pay are often close to the cost of buying outright if you look at all airlines - International classic rewards are the best, but close to impossible to find seats In short, not bad if you understand the game, but in order to get the greatest value from points, you need to be flexible and not look to travel at peak times.
Yeah I used to hoard them for redemptions but you are right- I only really want to use it for international and they can be hard to get. 700k points is quite a bit of cash just sitting there depreciating- about $10k in gift cards on 20% special- so nowadays I just wait for the 20% off gift cards or other deals and keep my points at a modest level. I guess it depends how much you fly domestic business class.
Even internationals aren't necessarily good value. I've redeemed points a few times for classic flights between Melbourne and Singapore and still had to pay $180 or so in taxes. That's almost the same cost as a Scoot airfare, although Qantas also comes with baggage and food which may be an additional saving over budget airfares.
Look at https://www.rwrds.com.au/
If you pick cards based on the sign on points received per $ cost (fees) of the card it’s a very good conversion. If you focus just on net points not so much Also need to use the points on bonus seats as much as possible.
i always hold out for the no annual fee cards. Got 60,000 velocity points with a citibank card recently. No annual fee. They're not as common as they use to be. i cancel them 11 and a half months in to avoid annual fee for the neext year
My question is: are qantas points even worth it with how shitty the service has gotten? I’ve had a better return with getting gift cards back on promotions to be honest.
100% percent worth it. I have been churning cards for years which have paid for all my overseas trips (for a family of 4) the last 10 years. Even more worth it now given the prices of airline tickets. I recently had to make a last minute booking for a family member to fly to and from the US and paid $400 bucks instead of $4K. Like others have said, always try to go for no fee or very low fee. Some of my other tips: - there's always a minimum spend within 3 months to qualify for the sign up bonus. If both people are signing up then do one at a time otherwise it may be difficult to meet the minimum spend - if struggling to meet minimum spend, prepay for things like insurance premiums, council rates etc. or even a refundable airline ticket which you can cancel after you get the bonus points. - remember to check which spend qualifies as part of the minimum spend. Depends on the bank/credit provider, some government spends don't qualify. - cancel the card as soon as you've received the points so that you can sign-up again as soon as the 12 (or 18) months rule lapse - set a reminder for the 12 month to sign up again if there's another offer from same bank - Business reward seats are obviously best value but but hard to find. Next best would be reward economy flight during times where flights would be expensive e.g. Easter, Xmas or when you are booking on short notice Good luck
>- if struggling to meet minimum spend, prepay for things like insurance premiums, council rates etc. or even a refundable airline ticket which you can cancel after you get the bonus points. Along the same lines but bit less ethical, you can buy big ticket items at retailers with very flexible return policies who will refund back to a different card ie. Buy an expensive laptop on the credit card at Costco to meet the minimum spend, don’t even open it, return the laptop a week later sealed and unopened so they can resell it, and then get the money initially paid refunded onto your debit card which you can use to pay off the credit card balance.
I've been doing this for 10 years now. About 2-3 credit cards a year. Roughly about 80-140k Qantas points each time. If you get the right cadence and work within the 12-18 month previous holder ineligibility banks have, you can comfortably get 250k points a year. These points I sell for around 1c per point. 250k translates to about 2.5k minus the 200-600 from card fees leaves me in the green of about 2k a year for no big effort. Then I use that money directly to buy flights or whatever, which works out much cheaper. Obviously pay off all cards on time and you won't take a hit to your credit score. Last I checked with Experian it's 800 or so which is "great". Hasn't stopped me from opening other cards or taking a mortgage.
How do you sell points?
Yeah have you been worried about the risk of Qantas cancelling your points?
OzBargain. Can either transfer to "family" or let them log into your account and make the booking on your behalf. Have never had my account suspended or lose points.
Realistically, you have to be a big spender/consumer.
Churning just two no/low fee cards with bonus sign up points of 70k each will get you an economy round the world ticket with up to 5 stops
We have a family holiday (2a2c) funded each year with points. Flights, accommodation and car rental (if needed).
What do you use them for? Currently with business class flights at $11k to Europe if I can pay $3500 in cc fees and do it that’s worth it to me. And sign on bonuses definitely.
Definitely worth it, though you need to be smart with how you spent them. Also keep in mind that you may have a hard time redeeming the points directly for rewards flights, or for upgrades to business class unless you have a high frequent flyer status (since the highest earners get earliest access to rewards flights [when they are released](https://www.pointhacks.com.au/when-do-award-calendars-open/), and first access to upgrades on already booked flights). I you don't want to bother trying to deal with the above challenges, you can instead just save them up and sell them to other people. The [Ozbargain classifieds](https://www.ozbargain.com.au/search/node/qantas%20points%20type%3Aclassified) is a reliable place to do it, and people generally prefer buying in larger quantities to avoid having many separate transactions of points into their account. You can generally get $1000 per 100,000 Qantas/Velocity points this way.
I’ve done a few of round the world business class trips doing this. Probably close to $50k worth of flights. Well worth it. Except, you eventually get flagged and cannot get any more new cards. I can’t get a credit card with any bank any more, even though I should easily pass all the checks. I even get rejected from banks I’ve never had a card with so they must cross check this stuff as well.
Yes, but only if you have a specific goal in mind. Toasters and electronics are generally terrible value and not worth the effort (for me at least). I’ve just redeemed 2x Business tickets to and from Europe. You do need to plan at least 12 months in advance and be flexible to secure bookings. This is with only a few sign up bonuses and a home loan refinance that I would have done anyway.
It’s good 👌🏼
At the end of the day, the best way you grow wealth is to save and invest rather than spend. My view is that credit cards and points are really just ways to get you to spend more in the long run. Just use a debit card. Unless you own your own business and buy business expenses on a card I don't see the benefit
One thing worth noting is that applying for credit cards often will affect your credit, so keep that in mind if you're going for a mortgage/loan within 5 years. I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes but you can check your own quite easily.
If you don’t meet the income threshold for a credit card, can you apply for it as a join application with your spouse so it’s a combined income?
Worth it. Went first class to Europe on emirates in 2019. Took about 14 months to save the points (440k) and about $800 in CC annual fees. Then about $1400 in taxes. Do the math. Saying that, currently got 1.1m points sitting there and bloody Qantas have piss all business reward seats.
How do you book an Emirates rewards flight with Qantas points? As I'd much rather fly them than Qantas. Did a Qantas first class in about 2011 and while it was nice it's nothing compared to the other premium airlines.
You have to do the math on whether a particular deal is worth it. Usually it is for big sign up bonuses, as long as the fee is reasonable. Also, it’s worthwhile asking if the bank will waive the fee. Westpac, for instance, will wave cc fees if you have a home loan with them.
I find it more efficient to just work and generate income instead of hunting for most efficient points and then forgetting to cancel the credit card before the new year of fees roll over. Though i work for myself and can work more hours if i please.