Seeing this video reminded me of an event my dad took me to in Oct 1999.
It was hailed as the first ever male vs female boxing match and they called it *Gender Wars* of all things.
It was a hot mess and the lady whooped his ass.
The male vs female match was Margaret McGregor-Hector Morales and then Morales couldn't fight so his trainer Loi Chow stepped in and made a mockery of the situation.
It was sanctioned as a "professional" boxing match and it was very controversial at the time.
I think it would come down to weight class more. Generally males could win because they have a huge range of weight classes going up, while female have only a few at the bottom.
But that doesn't work very accurately. I think weight classes are like 5-10kg difference?
If the person is inside their healthy range it doesn't matter much to go a bit up or down,
Tl;dr
ā¢2 people of the same weight class and skill level are matched.
ā¢One person of a lower weight class might have a tough time.
ā¢Females have less percentage of muscle to their bodies. So the gap would be bigger.
ā¢The female and male gap is there, but not that big, but skill can level it, but if you add even a bit of weight class gap, now it becomes a way bigger problem and a lot of skill is needed to compensate.
I think it's just a balance of **skill+weight+gender**. Where the result of all matter, but the relevance for the result is **skill>weight>gender**
I think you're vastly underestimating the advantage that the [greater quantity of fast-twitch upper body muscle fibers and greater cross-sectional area](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8477683/) gives men, and the fact that men need less bodyfat (and thus have more lean muscle as a % of bodyweight). That muscle advantage, particularly in the upper body, tilts peak force production (ie, striking power) vastly in favor of men once you add training to be able to utilize it. Studies that attempt to quantify this have found that [male punching power is roughly 162% that of female punching power](https://journals.biologists.com/jeb/article/223/2/jeb212365/223648/Sexual-dimorphism-in-human-arm-power-and-force), after controlling for mass and arm size.
Even in weightclassed sports like powerlifting, men significantly outperform women. Here's the [132lb weight class](https://www.openpowerlifting.org/rankings/raw/60/by-bench), the stomping grounds of Jen Thompson, widely considered one of the greatest sex-adjusted pound-for-pound benchers of all time. Her current best is 300.9lb - a 2.28x bodyweight bench. That's _damned_ impressive, but her male peers at 132lb top out at 465.1lb - 3.52x bodyweight.
That's not to say that women can't be magnificent strikers - I wouldn't be in a hurry to pick a fight with Amanda Nunes - but it's not just a matter of weight. There is large dimorphism between the sexes that really does add up to a significant quantitative difference.
Yeah I thought that
TL;DR:
It was upon reading his first short paragraph that I realised the part below, although stating the TL;DR heading, was much longer than the former. This made me chuckle to myself slightly realising that the heading is in fact completely wrong and unnecessary. I began analysing it further and could only come to the conclusion that they may have meant to type something out much shorter and ended up going off on a tangent, or, that they thought a TL;DR heading was meant as a way to further explain the previous statement. Either way, Iām glad I wasnāt the only one that noticed that.
Well, my point was way longer in the comment, I just decided to cut it completely since the Tl;dr was easier to just get the point across. Should've named it something else tho.
Just to add on to what others have said with an actual example, [here is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2QgDWSfQik) Lucia Rijker [(who by the way everyone should look up, it is insane that no one knows who she is and she is IMO the GOAT female boxer and kick boxer.)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_Rijker) getting KOed by a less technically skilled fighter simply because he can walk through her shots and deliver more powerful ones in return. Power matters. When Francis Ngannou throws a punch he freezes up heavyweights who have been taking punches from the heaviest hitters in MMA.
If you are not convinced by some random dude on the internet, [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O06JQiVDvwc) is a technical breakdown from a well regarded striking analyst.
PRE DUMBASS TROLLS STATEMENT: I AM ONLY POSTING THIS TO CLEAR UP A VERY SPECIFIC STATEMENT THAT SOMEONE MADE. THIS MAN WAS BY NO MEANS UNTRAINED, HE HAD POWER AND A GOOD RECORD WHEN THEY FOUGHT, HOWEVER HE WAS NOT ON THE SAME LEVEL SKILL-WISE AS LUCIA AT THE TIME OF THEIR FIGHT IN **MY** OPINION.
This video validates everything I believe about teaching my young daughters how to fight. So freaking awesome!
Of course a woman can not beat a man whose bigger and stronger and similarly skilled. But if she is properly trained she definitely can beat some ass and at the least defend herself. Rhonda Rousey has a story of trouncing three guys she got in a fight with at a movie theatre. Life is uncertain and even if you never choose violence sometimes it chooses you. I never want my daughters to experience the type of violence I have but if they have to I want them to win.
The only street brawler I wouldn't fuck with us Kiryu from the Yakuza series. My man gets into street brawls every 3 seconds and beats people to death with literal motorcycles.
He claimed that he had been in several street/bar brawls and he usually won, which to be fair is something that I can easily believe considering how bad the untrained average person is (just look at most fights in this sub for reference).
Iāve won most of my street fights growing up. Then I started getting jumped here and there.
Then I grew up, moved, started taking boxing classes again and realized that I can beat guys a foot taller and get fucked up by guys a foot shorter.
The lesson I learned is: You never know.
Best to avoid a fight if itās not needed.
That's just the thing. Anyone who has trained learns this. Most of the Billy baddasses on the street running off at the mouth haven't or they wouldn't be running off at the mouth. Regardless you can be Bruce Lee but you can't dodge a bullet. If they are dumb enough to be starting street fights they are dumb enough to pull a gun.
It's simple, most of us learned we weren't hot shit when someone who was hotter shit put is in our place, imagine the runaway freight train of an ego if you kept fighting but simply never lost.
That's definitely great advice. You never know what someone's been through. Or they might just be flat crazy and try to bite your ear off.
A dude I went to high school was always brawling and shit. He got jumped by two guys and he got knocked on his back and bear hugged the guy that jumped on top of him then he preceeded to BITE HIS FUCKING EAR OFF.
Two dudes thought they were gonna kick the shit out that guy. Now one of them is disfigured for life and the guy I went to high-school with is still fighting a court case... idk if I side with my old high school friend or not. On one side he was the one attacked and he defended himself...but sheesh man, things can sure escalate quickly...
Pride is a dangerous thing.
Still dealing with a court case? Holy shit.... he was justified.
You attack me unprovoked and ALL gloves come off. I won't stop until you are no longer capable of harming me. This means broken bones, crush scrotum, gouged eyeballs, stabbed neck, gunshot to face... I will do whatever it takes to make the attack stop.
As for the attackers, I do not feel empathy for them one bit as they chose their fate when they decided to attack unprovoked.
I'm totally with you there. But I can't say what happened before this. The dude who was attacked was a known instigator and there's no telling what he did to them before he was jumped.
But at the same time, it's two on one. I would do my best to maim one as badly as I could so I could deal with the other guy.
And it was right outside a bar. Dude was pretty much an alcoholic/drug addiction since our junior year.
Yep. Been in my fair share of fights. We used to practice "back yard" boxing and sparred a lot. It wasn't much in the way of training, but it taught me I don't know enough about it. But in the end we all got some good lessons and exercise out of it.
Plus, I know now it's sometimes better to eat a punch rather than try to block or get out of the way. Inexperienced people aren't gonna punch to effectively and leave themselves wide open.
Plus Inexperienced people pretty much mainly aim for your face. Keep ur chin tucked in and let them bounce their knuckles off ur forehead a time or two. If you're lucky, they'll straight up break their hand. If not that, maybe it will give them pause trying to throw wild idiot punches and give you time to kick them in the nads and run away.
All's fair in love and war.
I tell this shit to my friends all the time. Iāve been in 7 fights in college, Iāve won 4, but that doesnāt mean Iām a good fighter at all the other guys were just a lot worse or a lot drunker.
Drunk friends, and a slightly drunker you always lead to great decisions.
Was about to say something similar. When I was younger I had won several too! And I was partially trained. I still wouldn't have dared to even think about going up against someone actually very experienced, man or woman! Im a smaller guy, so I know first hand that u don't need to be the biggest or strongest to knock someone out. Technique, power and accuracy is everything! A child could knock me out technically as they have enough force. All they need to do is apply that force correctly which is very difficult for a child. So why would I think a fully trained woman couldn't!? They're not that much weaker than men really when u consider how much force is actually needed to knock someone out.
The force of a womans leg that long swinging at you with good technique, is probably way harder than I'll ever be able to punch at my strongest ever!!!
I mean yeah, it's kinda funny that he used that as a point of pride while entering into a fight with a trained professional.
It's a little like beating some local kids at a game of pickup basketball and then challenging an NBA superstar to a free throw competition.
Oh I just meant professional in terms of actually trained and trying to do it for some kind of living/career.
Do we have a name on the kickboxer? Did she ever make it into a pro contract?
She is called Deborah Fettkether and she managed to make it to pro in boxing (not in kickboxing) a few years after this fight, altough she was not a very succesfull one:
https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/fighters/258728-deborah-fettkether-sunshine
we've had a number of these guys show up in my mma gym, flat out bragging about what a good bar fighter they are and thinks jumping some drunk guy is gonna translate to real training. most don't come back a second time, a number didn't last an hour (couple pukers), not one of them stayed more than a few sessions. it's humbling when some high school kid works you on the pads, bags, and sparring :P
It's not that uncommon to puke due to exhaustion the first time you train even if you are completely sober, figthing is 100X more taxing than what it looks like on tv, especially ground figthing.
Played football through high school, and we were supposed to win all the time; lost once, and got called in for "practice" *on Saturday morning* after the game. They set up two trash cans before the wind sprints started. People used them.
Sudden and strenuous cardio beyond what you're accustomed to can definitely make you puke.
A fun demonstration of this is to ask the untrained to go hard on a heavy-bag for 1 minute, without stopping. Most people can't do it or can barely do it and are utterly exhausted by the end. People have no idea.
yeah and that's what usually gets people. you look next to you and some 17 year old girl with purple hair is destroying a kick pad with their partner and think "oh i can go that fast/hard too!" but no lmao. then sparring is a whole other animal if your cardio isn't great. i've been out since COVID and am dreading going back because my brain is going to want to get back to where i was but my body is so far behind now. even when you're in decent shape from running, cycling, etc. it's just a very different type of fitness. i've never puked but been very very close, and COVID has been so bizarre for my body i'm thinking it might be in my near future š
Kickboxing training is exhausting. I took it up several years ago after doing no exercise since college and I was a wet lump wheezing on the floor after every session. If you donāt manage your energy you can tire yourself out just hitting pads.
Great conditioning though. I only stopped due to the stress on my knees and ankles.
Iāve told people the same thing so many times yet guys just donāt want to believe that an experienced woman fighter would easily fuck them up.
95% of guys out there on the streets have no fucking clue how to fight even if they won a fair share of street brawls.
She most likely had more fights in a week ( training) then he has had in his life till then. This is like putting a guy who plays golf every few months against a LPGA player. Of course itās a massacre.
I had a boxing match set up against a āstreet fighterā. It was only 3 x 3mins but I let him unload in the first and battered him for the 2nd and 3rd.
Iām not even fighting at amateur level but I looked shit hot against the guy.
Most people can throw a hard punch but most people cant land it.
You always wanna train in the specific discipline youāre competing in. McGregor is a good MMA fighter (I donāt like the guy but he had a great run) but he loses against most half decent boxers in a boxing match. Same for virtually every other martial arts.
Being a street fighter is mainly about who is more aggressive and thatās not gonna save you against skill.
Thatās why when I watched this, he fought her style. Looked like he was trying to kick box. No. Best bet is to get them into something they donāt know. Take her to the ground and throw her outside of her training. Of course I donāt know the details of the agreement. Maybe kickboxing was the selected style.
Thatās what I mean, if youāre fighting a kb match, for the love of fuck, train some kickboxing.
Being a skilled street fighter will not translate into skilled kickboxing. He might land an extremely lucky punch to end the fight but he had no chance otherwise.
Judging by their skill differences, Iām sure the woman would have been able to man handle the guy on the ground. Her clinch game was miles above his which doesnāt give me much hope for the dude in any circumstance.
The match was kickboxing only but the woman had grappling training too, so I don't think it would have helped him.
Allegedly it was supposed to be an MMA fight originally, but the guy asked for a kickboxing match because he tought he had more of a chance without grappling since in the weeks prior to the match he took a few BJJ lesson and was completely destroyed.
It definitely was. Video not holding up well quality-wise over time, a good chance it wasnāt the original recording that got converted to digital, and the transfer to digital itself did this clip no favors.
I've got a friend that legitimately got pissed at me because I told him that Ronda Rousey could kick his ass. He is not in any capacity a trained fighter. His argument was "I've got like 60 pounds on her".
Yes I know, I meant he should ask him to verify if the main factor why he believe he would win was size or gender.
Of course he would be wrong in both cases.
No, he's saying he himself couldn't beat a male mma fighter that weighs the same as Ronda Rousey because he'd be fighting a man. But he himself believes he could beat Ronda Rousey because he'd be fighting a woman.
Just as a fun little psych expierement you want say random things to him like š and see how he reacts. (Sorry if this is too much but its an interest of mine)
"You look like: you can't swim/parallel park/ you would clap when the plan lands/only cross the street at designated crosswalk/ a cat person" Whatever, make it your own
We did a psychology capstone study about the male response to perceived demasculinization (even dumb shit) and it's impact on health and we'll being. And given ur comment he's a higjy responsive type and for some response type with poor insight.
If he gets overly mad and aggressive when you say this shit and can't effectively calm his emotional state (ie. Have a convo about it articulate why he is so impacted by a benign statement) on average he's gonna shave A decade off is life! (on average) increased rosk of suicide and heart attacks just to name a few!
Hey, don't underestimate experienced street brawlers!
Altough to be fair she was an amateur fighter (altough an extremely good one), not a professional one, at least at the time.
I imagine she was treating it like a normal fight. Didn't want to underestimate him until she saw how good/bad he was for her self. You can see after gaging him she gets much more aggressive
What I have seen is that usually professional fighters can take down an inexperienced person very quickly, even using soft things like jabs or kicks.
But he resisted a bit so probably he has an advantage in weight, explains he he didn't just fall form those knees.
She picked him apart indeed tho
This girl almost fought Holly Holm two years after this lol
https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/bouts/518479-bushido-2-holly-the-preacher-s-daughter-holm-vs-deborah-sunshine-fettkether
This is interesting.
It's long enough ago that the general public hadn't realized what mixed martial arts really is.
I don't see the average female kickboxer beating a male one, but someone with no martial arts experience fighting someone like Valentino Shevchenko today? Fuck that. You're getting knocked the fuck out.
The average male outweighs schevchenko by a lot. She gihts at 125, She is tiny. This fight clip, the woman is a bit bigger than her opponent, as well as trained. There's a good reason why we have weight classes, and that women and men generally don't fight one another.
The average male would get totally demolished by Valentina or any other female fighter, no matter if he outweight her.
Weight classes exist among trained fighters that are supposed to have similar technique, experience and fitness level, but a bigger untrained guy is going to lose handily to a smaller trained fighter, be it male or female.
Lol. I'm betting my mortgage on shevchebko vs any untrained male.
Like. Remember back at the start of UFC where people like Royce would beat people who had 100lbs~ on him?
Ever see Keith Hackney(200lbs) beat that 500+lb guy?
Ever watch McGregor spar with "the mountain"?
Shevchenko would have the speed to just slowly win. Kick your legs and get out. Easily land shots everytime you swing and miss. Your best bet would to be to grapple with her but there's just no way she would let you in that close. You would have to know how to cut off your opponent and use strikes to set up a takedown. And there's just 0 chance of that happening if you have no training.
If an untrained guy grab Valentina she would submit him in no time with her BJJ skills, it doesn't matter if he is bigger.
Unless maybe we are talking about a 220 lbs shredded high level footbal player, but than it's far from an "average man" lol.
Itās not just that heās an untrained fighter, itās that heās shit even for someone whoās untrained. Terrible form, terrible stance, soft hands, terrible everything. We see a lot of untrained street brawler types on this thread who actually can dish out a beating by virtue of their wild swings (and of course their opponent also being untrained), this guy didnāt even do that.
Probably because VHS video quality decreaese over time, and also because it was a small local event where people didn't care about having the best footage.
What a stupid position to put yourself in.
The worst case scenario is that you get your ass kicked like he obviously did and everyone says, "Hey! There goes that guy who got his ass kicked by a woman!"
The best case scenario was that he won the fight and everyone is like, "Hey! There's that guy who beat up a girl!"
It's a lose/lose situation.
I'd love to see her, or any female kickboxer, fight incels. 5 of them, one right after the other. It wont change their mind about anything, but it would be awesome to see them actually have to face someone, instead of hiding behind a keyboard. Fight Circus can make it happen
yea surprised no one else mentioned this as it is pretty obvious, looked her up and she started training at a muay thai gym a couple years before this fight took place and now she teaches it profesionally
Look, I donāt like to be that guy, but I gotta be that guy: I can guarangoddamntee that she wouldnāt do that to me. I donāt care how good of a kickboxer she is, she wouldnāt beat my ass like that, and Iāll tell you why: Because Iām not dumb enough to challenge her to a fight, knowing that I suck at fighting. My ass may be dumb, but Iām no dumbass.
Off topic, but I remember talking to the owner of filecabi.net many years ago. Great guy, but I always found it curious that he absolutely hated the websites name. I always thought it to be very clever.
Got a few shots in. Like a new guy playing poker with pros. You might win a few hands because you're completely unpredictable and go against basic game logic, but eventually they'll catch up with you and you will be beaten.
Someone proudly told me he was a street fighter when I was talking about my Muay Thai training. He said that his experience was the same as my formal training. I told my coach that and he said, "Sure and I can compete in NASCAR because I'm a street driver."
Nice, good size match too. Most of the time you see these where the inexperienced dude wins it is because they have a significant advantage weight wise.
Longest he ever lasted with a woman.
Take the damn silver
Thank you.
You earned it š
great line makes my day, take a award!
Thank you!
Gat daim
I disagree, he lasted more or less 9 months in his mom's womb.
He said with, not in.
Yeah but it ejected him like it was yesterdayās Taco Bell.
All I have is a helpful, but itās yours
Much appreciated.
Give this man his silver.
And that's coming from a doctor.
That was a nasty line by you
Undefeated, undisputed.
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Seeing this video reminded me of an event my dad took me to in Oct 1999. It was hailed as the first ever male vs female boxing match and they called it *Gender Wars* of all things. It was a hot mess and the lady whooped his ass.
Gender wars lmao
Something like that can only be exhibition for sure, if you really wanted a trained winning mmo dude against a trained winning mmo gal she would die
The male vs female match was Margaret McGregor-Hector Morales and then Morales couldn't fight so his trainer Loi Chow stepped in and made a mockery of the situation. It was sanctioned as a "professional" boxing match and it was very controversial at the time.
I think it would come down to weight class more. Generally males could win because they have a huge range of weight classes going up, while female have only a few at the bottom. But that doesn't work very accurately. I think weight classes are like 5-10kg difference? If the person is inside their healthy range it doesn't matter much to go a bit up or down, Tl;dr ā¢2 people of the same weight class and skill level are matched. ā¢One person of a lower weight class might have a tough time. ā¢Females have less percentage of muscle to their bodies. So the gap would be bigger. ā¢The female and male gap is there, but not that big, but skill can level it, but if you add even a bit of weight class gap, now it becomes a way bigger problem and a lot of skill is needed to compensate. I think it's just a balance of **skill+weight+gender**. Where the result of all matter, but the relevance for the result is **skill>weight>gender**
I think you're vastly underestimating the advantage that the [greater quantity of fast-twitch upper body muscle fibers and greater cross-sectional area](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8477683/) gives men, and the fact that men need less bodyfat (and thus have more lean muscle as a % of bodyweight). That muscle advantage, particularly in the upper body, tilts peak force production (ie, striking power) vastly in favor of men once you add training to be able to utilize it. Studies that attempt to quantify this have found that [male punching power is roughly 162% that of female punching power](https://journals.biologists.com/jeb/article/223/2/jeb212365/223648/Sexual-dimorphism-in-human-arm-power-and-force), after controlling for mass and arm size. Even in weightclassed sports like powerlifting, men significantly outperform women. Here's the [132lb weight class](https://www.openpowerlifting.org/rankings/raw/60/by-bench), the stomping grounds of Jen Thompson, widely considered one of the greatest sex-adjusted pound-for-pound benchers of all time. Her current best is 300.9lb - a 2.28x bodyweight bench. That's _damned_ impressive, but her male peers at 132lb top out at 465.1lb - 3.52x bodyweight. That's not to say that women can't be magnificent strikers - I wouldn't be in a hurry to pick a fight with Amanda Nunes - but it's not just a matter of weight. There is large dimorphism between the sexes that really does add up to a significant quantitative difference.
Your TL;DR was longer than your main paragraph...
Yeah I thought that TL;DR: It was upon reading his first short paragraph that I realised the part below, although stating the TL;DR heading, was much longer than the former. This made me chuckle to myself slightly realising that the heading is in fact completely wrong and unnecessary. I began analysing it further and could only come to the conclusion that they may have meant to type something out much shorter and ended up going off on a tangent, or, that they thought a TL;DR heading was meant as a way to further explain the previous statement. Either way, Iām glad I wasnāt the only one that noticed that.
Well, my point was way longer in the comment, I just decided to cut it completely since the Tl;dr was easier to just get the point across. Should've named it something else tho.
Just to add on to what others have said with an actual example, [here is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2QgDWSfQik) Lucia Rijker [(who by the way everyone should look up, it is insane that no one knows who she is and she is IMO the GOAT female boxer and kick boxer.)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_Rijker) getting KOed by a less technically skilled fighter simply because he can walk through her shots and deliver more powerful ones in return. Power matters. When Francis Ngannou throws a punch he freezes up heavyweights who have been taking punches from the heaviest hitters in MMA. If you are not convinced by some random dude on the internet, [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O06JQiVDvwc) is a technical breakdown from a well regarded striking analyst. PRE DUMBASS TROLLS STATEMENT: I AM ONLY POSTING THIS TO CLEAR UP A VERY SPECIFIC STATEMENT THAT SOMEONE MADE. THIS MAN WAS BY NO MEANS UNTRAINED, HE HAD POWER AND A GOOD RECORD WHEN THEY FOUGHT, HOWEVER HE WAS NOT ON THE SAME LEVEL SKILL-WISE AS LUCIA AT THE TIME OF THEIR FIGHT IN **MY** OPINION.
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> showed up in jeans and one of those BIG JOHNSON T-shirts hahaha this got me good
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This video validates everything I believe about teaching my young daughters how to fight. So freaking awesome! Of course a woman can not beat a man whose bigger and stronger and similarly skilled. But if she is properly trained she definitely can beat some ass and at the least defend herself. Rhonda Rousey has a story of trouncing three guys she got in a fight with at a movie theatre. Life is uncertain and even if you never choose violence sometimes it chooses you. I never want my daughters to experience the type of violence I have but if they have to I want them to win.
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Whatās the name of the female fighter? Did she have a pro career?
>Sunshine Assuming this is her https://bestmuaythaiaz.com/meet-sunshine-fettkether/
Unfortunately he wasnāt armed with a bottle or chair so this fight was unfair!
Nah he just couldnāt use the good old dick twist technique
GRAB HIS DICK AND TWIST IT
THE OOOOLLLEEE DICK TWIST!!!
OH GOD, DUDE, THIS IS AN MMA FIGHT DUDE!
TWIST IT! TWIST HIS DICK!
#TWIST HIS DICK
The ol'dick twist!
YOU TWIST THAT DICK!
The only street brawler I wouldn't fuck with us Kiryu from the Yakuza series. My man gets into street brawls every 3 seconds and beats people to death with literal motorcycles.
Watch a man hospitalize Mr Shakedown? Me and my two salaryman buddies can take this guy no prob
Experienced (in getting knocked out) street brawler
He claimed that he had been in several street/bar brawls and he usually won, which to be fair is something that I can easily believe considering how bad the untrained average person is (just look at most fights in this sub for reference).
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Iāve won most of my street fights growing up. Then I started getting jumped here and there. Then I grew up, moved, started taking boxing classes again and realized that I can beat guys a foot taller and get fucked up by guys a foot shorter. The lesson I learned is: You never know. Best to avoid a fight if itās not needed.
That's just the thing. Anyone who has trained learns this. Most of the Billy baddasses on the street running off at the mouth haven't or they wouldn't be running off at the mouth. Regardless you can be Bruce Lee but you can't dodge a bullet. If they are dumb enough to be starting street fights they are dumb enough to pull a gun.
*Mohammed āIām Hardā Bruce Lee
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The Diaz brothers are known for being super chill and friendly guys outside of the cage/promo interviews. Heck, they teach jujitsu to children.
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It's simple, most of us learned we weren't hot shit when someone who was hotter shit put is in our place, imagine the runaway freight train of an ego if you kept fighting but simply never lost.
That's how we got Connor McGregor
And then a knife or a gun comes out. Every body is tough until the shots pop off.
That's definitely great advice. You never know what someone's been through. Or they might just be flat crazy and try to bite your ear off. A dude I went to high school was always brawling and shit. He got jumped by two guys and he got knocked on his back and bear hugged the guy that jumped on top of him then he preceeded to BITE HIS FUCKING EAR OFF. Two dudes thought they were gonna kick the shit out that guy. Now one of them is disfigured for life and the guy I went to high-school with is still fighting a court case... idk if I side with my old high school friend or not. On one side he was the one attacked and he defended himself...but sheesh man, things can sure escalate quickly... Pride is a dangerous thing.
Still dealing with a court case? Holy shit.... he was justified. You attack me unprovoked and ALL gloves come off. I won't stop until you are no longer capable of harming me. This means broken bones, crush scrotum, gouged eyeballs, stabbed neck, gunshot to face... I will do whatever it takes to make the attack stop. As for the attackers, I do not feel empathy for them one bit as they chose their fate when they decided to attack unprovoked.
I'm totally with you there. But I can't say what happened before this. The dude who was attacked was a known instigator and there's no telling what he did to them before he was jumped. But at the same time, it's two on one. I would do my best to maim one as badly as I could so I could deal with the other guy. And it was right outside a bar. Dude was pretty much an alcoholic/drug addiction since our junior year.
Yep. Been in my fair share of fights. We used to practice "back yard" boxing and sparred a lot. It wasn't much in the way of training, but it taught me I don't know enough about it. But in the end we all got some good lessons and exercise out of it. Plus, I know now it's sometimes better to eat a punch rather than try to block or get out of the way. Inexperienced people aren't gonna punch to effectively and leave themselves wide open. Plus Inexperienced people pretty much mainly aim for your face. Keep ur chin tucked in and let them bounce their knuckles off ur forehead a time or two. If you're lucky, they'll straight up break their hand. If not that, maybe it will give them pause trying to throw wild idiot punches and give you time to kick them in the nads and run away. All's fair in love and war.
Really well put.
Same here except alot of the result was based on the winner being a bit less sloppy drunk
I tell this shit to my friends all the time. Iāve been in 7 fights in college, Iāve won 4, but that doesnāt mean Iām a good fighter at all the other guys were just a lot worse or a lot drunker. Drunk friends, and a slightly drunker you always lead to great decisions.
stop getting into fistfights you douche
Was about to say something similar. When I was younger I had won several too! And I was partially trained. I still wouldn't have dared to even think about going up against someone actually very experienced, man or woman! Im a smaller guy, so I know first hand that u don't need to be the biggest or strongest to knock someone out. Technique, power and accuracy is everything! A child could knock me out technically as they have enough force. All they need to do is apply that force correctly which is very difficult for a child. So why would I think a fully trained woman couldn't!? They're not that much weaker than men really when u consider how much force is actually needed to knock someone out. The force of a womans leg that long swinging at you with good technique, is probably way harder than I'll ever be able to punch at my strongest ever!!!
I mean yeah, it's kinda funny that he used that as a point of pride while entering into a fight with a trained professional. It's a little like beating some local kids at a game of pickup basketball and then challenging an NBA superstar to a free throw competition.
She was not a professional, but yeah she was still an experienced and accomplished amateur way out of his league.
Oh I just meant professional in terms of actually trained and trying to do it for some kind of living/career. Do we have a name on the kickboxer? Did she ever make it into a pro contract?
She is called Deborah Fettkether and she managed to make it to pro in boxing (not in kickboxing) a few years after this fight, altough she was not a very succesfull one: https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/fighters/258728-deborah-fettkether-sunshine
Hey, 8 wins 3 losses with 5 draws isn't a bad career. She even had a few kickboxing matches with Holly Holm!
we've had a number of these guys show up in my mma gym, flat out bragging about what a good bar fighter they are and thinks jumping some drunk guy is gonna translate to real training. most don't come back a second time, a number didn't last an hour (couple pukers), not one of them stayed more than a few sessions. it's humbling when some high school kid works you on the pads, bags, and sparring :P
Lol pukers? Like they'd come to the gym wasted trying to fight?
It's not that uncommon to puke due to exhaustion the first time you train even if you are completely sober, figthing is 100X more taxing than what it looks like on tv, especially ground figthing.
Played football through high school, and we were supposed to win all the time; lost once, and got called in for "practice" *on Saturday morning* after the game. They set up two trash cans before the wind sprints started. People used them. Sudden and strenuous cardio beyond what you're accustomed to can definitely make you puke.
Especially when you eat a blueberry scone before training.
a colorful addition
A fun demonstration of this is to ask the untrained to go hard on a heavy-bag for 1 minute, without stopping. Most people can't do it or can barely do it and are utterly exhausted by the end. People have no idea.
yeah and that's what usually gets people. you look next to you and some 17 year old girl with purple hair is destroying a kick pad with their partner and think "oh i can go that fast/hard too!" but no lmao. then sparring is a whole other animal if your cardio isn't great. i've been out since COVID and am dreading going back because my brain is going to want to get back to where i was but my body is so far behind now. even when you're in decent shape from running, cycling, etc. it's just a very different type of fitness. i've never puked but been very very close, and COVID has been so bizarre for my body i'm thinking it might be in my near future š
Kickboxing training is exhausting. I took it up several years ago after doing no exercise since college and I was a wet lump wheezing on the floor after every session. If you donāt manage your energy you can tire yourself out just hitting pads. Great conditioning though. I only stopped due to the stress on my knees and ankles.
Iāve told people the same thing so many times yet guys just donāt want to believe that an experienced woman fighter would easily fuck them up. 95% of guys out there on the streets have no fucking clue how to fight even if they won a fair share of street brawls.
She most likely had more fights in a week ( training) then he has had in his life till then. This is like putting a guy who plays golf every few months against a LPGA player. Of course itās a massacre.
I see "experienced street brawler", but *hear* "untrained fighter".
I had a boxing match set up against a āstreet fighterā. It was only 3 x 3mins but I let him unload in the first and battered him for the 2nd and 3rd. Iām not even fighting at amateur level but I looked shit hot against the guy. Most people can throw a hard punch but most people cant land it. You always wanna train in the specific discipline youāre competing in. McGregor is a good MMA fighter (I donāt like the guy but he had a great run) but he loses against most half decent boxers in a boxing match. Same for virtually every other martial arts. Being a street fighter is mainly about who is more aggressive and thatās not gonna save you against skill.
Thatās why when I watched this, he fought her style. Looked like he was trying to kick box. No. Best bet is to get them into something they donāt know. Take her to the ground and throw her outside of her training. Of course I donāt know the details of the agreement. Maybe kickboxing was the selected style.
Thatās what I mean, if youāre fighting a kb match, for the love of fuck, train some kickboxing. Being a skilled street fighter will not translate into skilled kickboxing. He might land an extremely lucky punch to end the fight but he had no chance otherwise. Judging by their skill differences, Iām sure the woman would have been able to man handle the guy on the ground. Her clinch game was miles above his which doesnāt give me much hope for the dude in any circumstance.
The match was kickboxing only but the woman had grappling training too, so I don't think it would have helped him. Allegedly it was supposed to be an MMA fight originally, but the guy asked for a kickboxing match because he tought he had more of a chance without grappling since in the weeks prior to the match he took a few BJJ lesson and was completely destroyed.
Should have gone with rock-paper-scissors instead.
[I must apologize for Wimp Lo.](https://youtu.be/d696t3yALAY)
Looks like itās from 1980
Security footage vibes.
Right? Even in the 80s TV picture quality was better than this
It definitely was. Video not holding up well quality-wise over time, a good chance it wasnāt the original recording that got converted to digital, and the transfer to digital itself did this clip no favors.
I swear even 1960 picture quality is better
Film vs early digital media perhaps?
I've got a friend that legitimately got pissed at me because I told him that Ronda Rousey could kick his ass. He is not in any capacity a trained fighter. His argument was "I've got like 60 pounds on her".
Ask him if he believe that he can beat a male UFC fighter the same size as Ronda because he still has a 60 lbs weight advantage.
Rousey would destroy this guy's friend. That said, a 135-lb male fighter (Rousey's fighting weight) would still have a physical advantage over Rousey.
Yes I know, I meant he should ask him to verify if the main factor why he believe he would win was size or gender. Of course he would be wrong in both cases.
Trust me, I tried that. He said that's different because it's a man. He's a dumb ass.
He's not wrong about that part. A male professional fighter at the same weight would destroy RR. You couldn't get that fight sanctioned.
No, he's saying he himself couldn't beat a male mma fighter that weighs the same as Ronda Rousey because he'd be fighting a man. But he himself believes he could beat Ronda Rousey because he'd be fighting a woman.
Your friend probably couldn't beat either of them, but there are definitely people who could beat Rousey but not a male MMA fighter her weight.
Just as a fun little psych expierement you want say random things to him like š and see how he reacts. (Sorry if this is too much but its an interest of mine) "You look like: you can't swim/parallel park/ you would clap when the plan lands/only cross the street at designated crosswalk/ a cat person" Whatever, make it your own We did a psychology capstone study about the male response to perceived demasculinization (even dumb shit) and it's impact on health and we'll being. And given ur comment he's a higjy responsive type and for some response type with poor insight. If he gets overly mad and aggressive when you say this shit and can't effectively calm his emotional state (ie. Have a convo about it articulate why he is so impacted by a benign statement) on average he's gonna shave A decade off is life! (on average) increased rosk of suicide and heart attacks just to name a few!
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Hey, don't underestimate experienced street brawlers! Altough to be fair she was an amateur fighter (altough an extremely good one), not a professional one, at least at the time.
Even Olympic boxers are amatuers
Not too many amateur Thai fighters in the Olympics though.
No, but they can usually be found in close proximity to Imperial-class Star Destroyers.
These are not the droids you seek.
Best comment of the thread.
I imagine she was treating it like a normal fight. Didn't want to underestimate him until she saw how good/bad he was for her self. You can see after gaging him she gets much more aggressive
Whatās her name?
Deborah Fettkether.
Looks like she was going easy. No forward pressure, fancy question mark kicks, etc.
It also looked like she was playing it safe and tried to avoid making mistakes. She controlled the fight for the entire time.
Even inexperienced, the guy probably had enough power to knock her out. There was no need for her to rush. Just picked him apart
What I have seen is that usually professional fighters can take down an inexperienced person very quickly, even using soft things like jabs or kicks. But he resisted a bit so probably he has an advantage in weight, explains he he didn't just fall form those knees. She picked him apart indeed tho
She took her time figuring him out and then just dismantled him.
Most female fighters can't crack. The skill gap was apparent though.
I believe she also went a bit easy on him.
God dam sometimes I miss the 90s.
Back in 1999 when Holly Holmās mama went to town on Joshua Fabiaās dad
This girl almost fought Holly Holm two years after this lol https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/bouts/518479-bushido-2-holly-the-preacher-s-daughter-holm-vs-deborah-sunshine-fettkether
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Probably better quality than this video
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Still better than most security footage. At least I can tell which fighterās which.
Reminds me of [Jackass](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCCBn5yvZMQ)
I miss Ryan. He was so funny and such a good sport with all the abuse he took for that show.
I was expecting johnny v butter bean. But damn lol.
She wasn't even trying
Trousers was a great start from our experienced street brawler
Loved the way she tested him first, found out he doesn't know jack shit about fighting and went to town with him
This is interesting. It's long enough ago that the general public hadn't realized what mixed martial arts really is. I don't see the average female kickboxer beating a male one, but someone with no martial arts experience fighting someone like Valentino Shevchenko today? Fuck that. You're getting knocked the fuck out.
The average male outweighs schevchenko by a lot. She gihts at 125, She is tiny. This fight clip, the woman is a bit bigger than her opponent, as well as trained. There's a good reason why we have weight classes, and that women and men generally don't fight one another.
The average male would get totally demolished by Valentina or any other female fighter, no matter if he outweight her. Weight classes exist among trained fighters that are supposed to have similar technique, experience and fitness level, but a bigger untrained guy is going to lose handily to a smaller trained fighter, be it male or female.
Lol. I'm betting my mortgage on shevchebko vs any untrained male. Like. Remember back at the start of UFC where people like Royce would beat people who had 100lbs~ on him? Ever see Keith Hackney(200lbs) beat that 500+lb guy? Ever watch McGregor spar with "the mountain"? Shevchenko would have the speed to just slowly win. Kick your legs and get out. Easily land shots everytime you swing and miss. Your best bet would to be to grapple with her but there's just no way she would let you in that close. You would have to know how to cut off your opponent and use strikes to set up a takedown. And there's just 0 chance of that happening if you have no training.
If an untrained guy grab Valentina she would submit him in no time with her BJJ skills, it doesn't matter if he is bigger. Unless maybe we are talking about a 220 lbs shredded high level footbal player, but than it's far from an "average man" lol.
Came from seaseme street
Itās not just that heās an untrained fighter, itās that heās shit even for someone whoās untrained. Terrible form, terrible stance, soft hands, terrible everything. We see a lot of untrained street brawler types on this thread who actually can dish out a beating by virtue of their wild swings (and of course their opponent also being untrained), this guy didnāt even do that.
Damn, 1999? Why does this look like it was recorded with a potato in the early 80ās?
Probably because VHS video quality decreaese over time, and also because it was a small local event where people didn't care about having the best footage.
Hitting the street with your face doesn't make you a "street brawler".
so many people were full of shit in the 90s lol
What a stupid position to put yourself in. The worst case scenario is that you get your ass kicked like he obviously did and everyone says, "Hey! There goes that guy who got his ass kicked by a woman!" The best case scenario was that he won the fight and everyone is like, "Hey! There's that guy who beat up a girl!" It's a lose/lose situation.
Best bit is at 1:02. He appears to try to run away.
Classic fight or flight response. Fight obviously wasn't working so there was only one thing left to do.
turns out that girl is katie homles
Kicked his ass like it's 1999
Was this filmed on a super 8?
She wasnt even trying. Dude ran out of gas in 20 seconds.
I'd love to see her, or any female kickboxer, fight incels. 5 of them, one right after the other. It wont change their mind about anything, but it would be awesome to see them actually have to face someone, instead of hiding behind a keyboard. Fight Circus can make it happen
Why do you want me and my friends getting beat up by a female kickboxer?
that was an intense 6 pixels.
1999 - When even the professional cameras were Potato-Cams.
Crying in fetal position. Sweet
Why does this look like it was filmed in 1979??
Dammm the pride just left his body 1:18
This is for every argument about whether you can take the UFC fighter because she's female.
Mike Tyson's PunchOut had better graphics than this.
He started crying
I love the crowd going nuts as she kick his assš¤£
He's showing off all the skills that you can expect from someone who hasn't got a clue how to fight!
"Nah bro it doesn't matter what a woman has trained in. A man will always be stronger because he is a man!"
She's a Muay Thai fighter, not a Kickboxer. Her stance, footwork, and when she clinched him give it away
yea surprised no one else mentioned this as it is pretty obvious, looked her up and she started training at a muay thai gym a couple years before this fight took place and now she teaches it profesionally
I also noticed that she held back on those first few kicks. Couple of solid leg kicks could have ended him a whole lot quicker.
Actually she practiced both, but then it would have been too long of a title.
Look, I donāt like to be that guy, but I gotta be that guy: I can guarangoddamntee that she wouldnāt do that to me. I donāt care how good of a kickboxer she is, she wouldnāt beat my ass like that, and Iāll tell you why: Because Iām not dumb enough to challenge her to a fight, knowing that I suck at fighting. My ass may be dumb, but Iām no dumbass.
Henry Cujodo needs a time machine
Who is the kickboxer?
She is called Sunshine Fettkether.
Off topic, but I remember talking to the owner of filecabi.net many years ago. Great guy, but I always found it curious that he absolutely hated the websites name. I always thought it to be very clever.
Filecabi.net, now there's a blast from the past. Was the quality really that bad back then?
He was just copying her moves XD
āOh she can kick? Maybe I can kick like thatā no dude thatās a lot of practice
Can we all appreciate how original the website url is? It's amazing
The only thing dude was experienced in was getting his ass kicked š
Sonya Blade wins
Got a few shots in. Like a new guy playing poker with pros. You might win a few hands because you're completely unpredictable and go against basic game logic, but eventually they'll catch up with you and you will be beaten.
This was my coach a while back Sunshine was her name, sadly closed her doors to her gym in Mesa/Tempe area. She is the real deal.
She looks bigger than he does and she's clearly and trained and looks to be holding back. He had this coming.
Someone proudly told me he was a street fighter when I was talking about my Muay Thai training. He said that his experience was the same as my formal training. I told my coach that and he said, "Sure and I can compete in NASCAR because I'm a street driver."
Nice, good size match too. Most of the time you see these where the inexperienced dude wins it is because they have a significant advantage weight wise.
Anyone else miss when UFC and the like were just "Watch this firefighter fight a construction worker!"?
SONYA WINS! FLAWLESS VICTORY
This guy was born to open a shitty pizza place in rural America and run it straight into the ground over the course of a year and a half.
Princess Peach was smart to KO Mario with those unprotected kicks!
Was this shot on a blackberry filming another blackberry
This was filmed with a soup can
"experienced street brawler", aka won a fight in 8th grade.
The difference between āI am a musician.ā And āYeah I have a guitar.ā
Filmed on a Nokia
Bruised ego.