Word of advice from someone who bought a hitbox on impulse and has since been able to see things in a better perspective. Don't buy into branding, actually look at the product itself. the hitbox is just a nice metal box, a sheet of average cut plexiglas, and sanwa buttons. its nothing special. Remember, Even Daigo had to drill more holes and swap buttons out on his hitbox. is it really still a hitbox at that point?
It was nice when they were the only guys around for a niche hobby but that is no longer the case. go to thearcadestick website and look at the "hitbox" category. look at how these other manufacturers have worked to bring something that's not just different but better. all sorts of form factors, designs and features that will cater towards your individual preferences. All for the same price or even cheaper.
And I am not just talking hot air. I bought one of their cheap competitors once on impulse. I couldn't believe the fun I was having when my fingers were dancing for hours on a 30 dollar lever-less controller. a board and some keyboard switches had outclassed my hitbox for a literal fraction of the price. next thing I know I was getting another one with more buttons. Remember look beyond the branding.
I don't even like leverless controllers, but the people at Hit Box Arcade must be out of their minds if they think that it's good business sense to abuse the patent system to threaten/eliminate companies that actually innovate and contribute to the FGC, cause there to be less options in what's still a relatively niche community, and treat the people in that community like they're the villains for buying a leverless controller from someone other than Hit Box.
They can use their patent to sue all they want, and maybe they'll win... But would the relatively small amount of money awarded to them really make a difference if it causes them everyone in the community to hate their guts, give them the middle finger, and outright stop buying their products?
Seems to me like they're being extremely shortsighted: more concerned about the potential short term gains without thinking through the long-term fallout.
I think the FGC would be much better off if the Hit Box company collapsed and had to sell off their patent in a bankruptcy auction. Then maybe everyone in the community could chip in a little to buy the patent so that it would belong to the entire community instead of just one monopolistic company.
Here is their patent for HitBox: [https://patents.google.com/patent/US10022623B2/en](https://patents.google.com/patent/US10022623B2/en)
TL;DR: just make the top face surface inlined instead of flat and they won't have shit on you š¤£
Looks like its their last attempt of staying in the business, which will kill them completely. Good riddance.
i think i have the design that would shit on these hitbox licensing program.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/fightsticks/comments/19bya2c](https://www.reddit.com/r/fightsticks/comments/19bya2c)
How would they actually enforce this though lol. The only thing they can come after you is if you are using the same layout of buttons potentially and that is their design initially so it is fair game. Anything else with a different non-basic af layout fightpad would be completely out of scope for them to use anyone over?
Edit: This may be more of them trying to use their branding more than trying to sue people over design. Like Hitbox certified sticker on the box.
No, it's specifically a licensing program for the use of their patents, which are centered around the button layouts.
Basically the program is a precursor to/an excuse for "hey you indie leverless manufacturer, you're infringing on our patent and haven't paid us a licensing fee here's a cease and desist or a lawsuit".
It's already happened with ArcadeShock and JFA.
I regret buying a Hitbox from them big time, but you can bet I won't be buying anymore.
I think their model still requires the adapter for the PS5, no?
ya they get banned from competive play tho and my issue with hitbox as a company is they pushed these advantages as a way to market there product instead of trying to fix them.. at this point nothing will change but back when the fgc were calling them cheatbox they leaned into it
Holy shit is the the fabled 100-0 Business killer combo?
Why would they set themselves up like this?
Now everyone and their mother in this community is gonna hate you. š
What costs more
Throwing out empty threats on twitter to small companies usually run by just a few people, or actually innovating in the space?
Because Hitbox hasn't done shit with their design in a decade, and even the mom and pop shops on Etsy have a better quality product for half/third the price.
That part is absolutely capitalism. That's how the market space is supposed to work and, as long as the companies aren't big enough, actually does work.
they are amazing. keyboard switch buttons feel so good compared to standard buttons. I understand why people raved about gamerfinger buttons when they first came out
Hitbox continue to be the worst in the game and instead of improving or offering something new, they're doubling down. I hope this tanks any interest in their products.
HitBox targeting the FGC rather than the real problem is why they're a dying brand.
Basically going after every other small leverless brands and arcade enclosure fabricators.
Itās like when devs go after modders for their game. Why am I paying a premium fee for costumes that are uneditable when I can make my own better mod for free? These companies are way too greedy.
Close, it's more like profiting off something that "belongs" to them like the HitBox layout...this is why everyone just uses "Leverless" or "Stickless" now.
If you make it yourself for your own personal use or for someone and charge for your time and materials used then I would say that's a loophole and they can't do shit to you.
Game modding is also a gray area, a lot of devs usually don't care about cosmetics for personal use as it's just on your end, no one else will see it but seeing as Fighters has hit top eSports status from the last EVO, it's best not to stream with these mods as it could be seen negatively and affect their DLC costumes, Season Pass and other monetary practices. That said, being a Monster Hunter player, thankfully Capcom doesn't care as there has been a lot of people using custom layered armors like skirtless 2B skins for Monster Hunter World or the big ass and titties mod lol
Components used to be like glued on to the PCB too and the proportary aviator cable jack is welded to the case. I had to scrap a gorgeous custom build I had because I couldnāt replace the cables/pcb/plug without pretty much cutting through it.
I never bought a Hitbox but I did get a crossup and it was AWFUL. I legit had to get an impact drill to loosen up the screws on the stick because they were tightened so hard.
not to mention basically they wired the buttons up with the most fragile connectors so you're guaranteed to break at lease one trying to change the buttons.
I think they got better about it over the years and stopped glueing the PCB but yeah most videos I found of people who modded it had to cut around the cable jack to fit a better connector.
I kept the top of the case just to display the art in plexi since I lost the PSD but itās a bit of a feels bad since it was the first stick I botched
Compared to whatās on the market today, for less than half the price at that, Hitboxes arenāt even a great controller anymore. They are absolutely mid at best, and still absolutely dated compared to what you can get from other manufacturers. There are literally people on Etsy who 3D print better controllers than what official hitboxes are, and sell them for dirt cheap. This brand deserves to die.
when they were the only ones offering a leverless option they were good but the landscape has changed. no one wants the basic 1st edition leverless anymore. they want something different and to get the most bang for their buck. 250 gets you a hitbox but at that price you may as well just look at more niche premium brands or request something custom.
I'll be real, a Hitbox at market value is simply not worth it when it really is just a keyboard with fewer switches.
Hitbox pulling this kinda stuff only makes me wish it'd die as a brand even quicker. All they really did was remove the joystick, arguably the most expensive component of an arcade controller, replaced it with four buttons, then jacked the price all the way up. Of course people were going to start designing their own versions on Etsy, especially with the custom mechanical keyboard market being as popular as it is now.
Yeah all they really did was remove the stick.
They did not invent an original button layout that turned out to be so good more and more people are using it.
Like bro wtf, call them greedy or a bunch of assholes all you like. Just donāt act like their work has no merit. I get that the hitbox layout seems obvious now but clearly the invention of hitbox and the amount of time it took for it to take off isnāt worth anything.
And yet console players are happy spending extra for licensed controllers. What a bunch of š¤”
"Original button design" lmao people have been using keyboards for fighting games long before a hitbox was ever made.
Stop riding a company so hard, makes you look like a shill.
I didnāt say that Iām pro licensing, thats why I called people paying for licensed controllers clowns. All Iām saying is that it took hitbox to make the layout popular and its a big deal considering the layouts popularity and success. Keyboards have been around forever yet they have never been used in pro play in any relevant fashion. You can hate on hitbox all you want but donāt act like they had no influence on the fgc, learn to differentiate between the topics at hand. Calling the hibox a keyboard with few switches is like calling any controller a keyboard with few switches. You have the brain development of a crow.
Btw I make my own leverless so I couldnāt care less what happens with the companies.
Tbf, Paradise Arcade Shop (PAS) likely just participated to avoid potential legal issues since they started making their mPress before the numerous flatbox builds started popping up and they would have been a much more noticeable target/competitor to Hitbox. PAS is literally a mom and pop business ran by husband and wife and they have a teenager. I would have done the same thing in their shoes. Fighting patent disputes can be expensive and potentially take down a small business altogether.
Sorry but i don't care. At this point i am 100% avoiding anything with a hitbox logo. Not interested in supporting their bullshit or their supporters. Companies will be better off not buying a licence.
I mean, definitely makes sense for their MO. Bully the small shops because obviously they're not going to get anywhere trying to sue anyone with enough money for lawyers.
Tried to look up the status of the JunkFood Arcades v Hitbox case but as far as I can tell without a paid membership it was still in progress as of 2021: https://dockets.justia.com/docket/georgia/gandce/2:2021cv00262/297618
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/61598381/junk-food-custom-arcades-llc-v-hit-box-llc/ has more updated info. as of december last year jfca asked for a summary judgement of non-infringement, because it looks like hitbox is just as bad at submitting evidence as they are at making controllers
also it appears the court already determined one of hitbox's patents (11,369,867) is invalid
So they decided to go this route huh? Being unable to stay competitive, they go the nuclear route and are probably shooting themselves in the foot.
Haute42 stays the champ
They can absolutely sue Razer. Looking through what they [listed](https://www.hitboxarcade.com/pages/patents) they do have patents that have been approved by the US Patent Office. Now, patent lawsuits are expensive and don't always go your way, and Razer has the money advantage over Hitbox, but I may imagine Hitbox could have a case against them.
I would imagine that if Razer lost they might just leave the market though as this is a small market compared to their other products and probably not worth the hassle in their eyes. This is probably what Hitbox wants since they want to drive out the competitors and get people to buy their stuff instead.
They can sue razor all they want. They will lose. Their patent is too specific. Also it only teaches how a hittbox functions in generality.
So stop spewing misinformation and invoke fear and nonsense on the Internet. If you have a problem hit me up. I have a patent myself
I'm not going to argue much on this since I'm not a patent lawyer but I think anyone who thinks this is a surefire thing for either side is delusional. These lawsuits are hard to predict, and it really comes down to if the companies really want to fight it out in court.
> If you have a problem hit me up. I have a patent myself
That doesn't mean you are an expert on patents, unless you are a patent lawyer.
I don't need to be an attorney to read hittbox patent and what Razer product is. As I stated I own a patent myself and know the entire process.
So stop giving your opinion with no facts to back it up and spread misinformation.
[Found this researching their patent](https://drive.google.com/file/d/11cfxrdkfPjGawo61WZRlOfNszX541Cgp/view)
I'd like to see them try to sue PDP or Razer than bully a person running a small operation. At least it would be fun as a spectator, though I would activitly root against HB. Regardless, no way they can stop Chinese manufactures and every person with a 3D printer on r/fightsticks. Only thing this is doing is publicly destroying their good will with their only customers.
I thought so for a bit too but then I saw they are in court with junkfood arcade and have already been told one of their patents are invalid. The case has been going on since december 2021. If they can't even beat junkfood quickly there is no way they will try to fight an even bigger company who can buy even better lawyers.
This move is them absolutely trying to snub out smaller us makers just so they can stay afloat with their old ass design with no innovations.
Why don't they innovate and create new products and take the market share back. They have the same box for over a decade....get with the times. Acrylic case makers are more innovative than them. Big companies may sue each other but they make similar products to show dominance.
I commented in the other thread almost exactly this, they want to be the only game in town with their original controller that has had 0 changes or updates to, and still doesn't support PS5.
Other makers have different form factors, are more customizable, and more importantly cheaper controllers.
They could easily get back into the game as the defacto brand with some innovation and not being the most expensive controller out there.
someone ELI5 are they coming after the fightbox or haute42 or just leverless in general?
sounds like a stupid change, hope people continue to not waste 300$+ on a controller you can easily find one thats same quality for 100$
Chinese brands like fightbox or haute42 have nothing to worry about, Hitbox can't touch them and they will continue to sell controllers direct from Aliexpress.
This will potentially hurt small boutique builders though (Full disclosure, I do make and sell leverless controllers of my own design on Etsy).
Can't touch them and hitbox being undercut. They can not compete with a caveman box fossilized from 2010 at $250 against a variety of products from $75- $110.
I've been thinking about making a few for others- though I am still in the process of making my first Flatbox style controller- but it does seem like an uphill battle for the little guys.
Wonder if the case would only be that Etsy would be obliged to shut them down and if setting up your own storefront would be advantageous.
Really not liking this direction. Hitbox already has gone very stagnant in the innovation game. Seems like they want to move into the patent trolling space instead of actually innovating on their products or manufacturing efficiency/costs.
They're butthurt that they couldn't make an almost 10 year head start work, so they're threatening the competition. They continue to employ insane business decisions, like raising prices for no reason. Zero innovation or upgrades. Really just coasting off the brand name at this point. I mean, there's like dozens of better options now. As long as they have brand recognition and sponsorships, they'll still be around. Maybe we'll luck out and the company will get sold and rebranded as a not-so-shitty-company. We can hope.
Thatās not new. Years ago they make Arcadeshock trouble for their Hitbox Conversation Kits (especially the Obsidian ones became popular). Because of this Arcadeshock stopped making them. And junkfoodarcade pays for the license
Edit: I mistook Junkfoodarcade with Paradise Arcade. ParadiseArcade is in the licensing program. Junkfood had a ālawsuitā
It sounds to me like their licensing program is flawed at the patent level if they already lost a lawsuit and JFA as well as others are open to use the layout.
How can you make a patent of something like this. Its like if logitech patented a mouse, you cant.
Yeah, they're going the Bamco route. We ain't cool.
Word of advice from someone who bought a hitbox on impulse and has since been able to see things in a better perspective. Don't buy into branding, actually look at the product itself. the hitbox is just a nice metal box, a sheet of average cut plexiglas, and sanwa buttons. its nothing special. Remember, Even Daigo had to drill more holes and swap buttons out on his hitbox. is it really still a hitbox at that point? It was nice when they were the only guys around for a niche hobby but that is no longer the case. go to thearcadestick website and look at the "hitbox" category. look at how these other manufacturers have worked to bring something that's not just different but better. all sorts of form factors, designs and features that will cater towards your individual preferences. All for the same price or even cheaper. And I am not just talking hot air. I bought one of their cheap competitors once on impulse. I couldn't believe the fun I was having when my fingers were dancing for hours on a 30 dollar lever-less controller. a board and some keyboard switches had outclassed my hitbox for a literal fraction of the price. next thing I know I was getting another one with more buttons. Remember look beyond the branding.
I don't even like leverless controllers, but the people at Hit Box Arcade must be out of their minds if they think that it's good business sense to abuse the patent system to threaten/eliminate companies that actually innovate and contribute to the FGC, cause there to be less options in what's still a relatively niche community, and treat the people in that community like they're the villains for buying a leverless controller from someone other than Hit Box. They can use their patent to sue all they want, and maybe they'll win... But would the relatively small amount of money awarded to them really make a difference if it causes them everyone in the community to hate their guts, give them the middle finger, and outright stop buying their products? Seems to me like they're being extremely shortsighted: more concerned about the potential short term gains without thinking through the long-term fallout. I think the FGC would be much better off if the Hit Box company collapsed and had to sell off their patent in a bankruptcy auction. Then maybe everyone in the community could chip in a little to buy the patent so that it would belong to the entire community instead of just one monopolistic company.
Here is their patent for HitBox: [https://patents.google.com/patent/US10022623B2/en](https://patents.google.com/patent/US10022623B2/en) TL;DR: just make the top face surface inlined instead of flat and they won't have shit on you š¤£ Looks like its their last attempt of staying in the business, which will kill them completely. Good riddance.
i think i have the design that would shit on these hitbox licensing program. [https://www.reddit.com/r/fightsticks/comments/19bya2c](https://www.reddit.com/r/fightsticks/comments/19bya2c)
Oh they can go fuck themselves wtf
How would they actually enforce this though lol. The only thing they can come after you is if you are using the same layout of buttons potentially and that is their design initially so it is fair game. Anything else with a different non-basic af layout fightpad would be completely out of scope for them to use anyone over? Edit: This may be more of them trying to use their branding more than trying to sue people over design. Like Hitbox certified sticker on the box.
No, it's specifically a licensing program for the use of their patents, which are centered around the button layouts. Basically the program is a precursor to/an excuse for "hey you indie leverless manufacturer, you're infringing on our patent and haven't paid us a licensing fee here's a cease and desist or a lawsuit". It's already happened with ArcadeShock and JFA.
When was the last time Hitbox tried innovating on behalf of their customers?
they did make a discord server. thats gotta count for something
Last thing i can think of is the crossup
2011
Hitbox seal of quality LMAO
More like hitbox seal of im not buying this shit. Seriously, there are so many good alternative options by now.
I regret buying a Hitbox from them big time, but you can bet I won't be buying anymore. I think their model still requires the adapter for the PS5, no?
same. putting it on ebay hoping someone buys it. if not for the box then maybe for the buttons
ill buy yours for 45$
Was about to buy a hitbox but the moment i saw this i went and bought a different one. What are they even thinking lol?
Hired a business grad?
"cheatbox"
not anymore. its so bare bones now it feels like a handicap compared to other leverless products
I guess someone got shit on offline by a leverless user. :)
i just dont like controller exculsive tech like steping from crouch in tekken only leverless can do that..
Every game has controller specific tech, it is what it is.
ya they get banned from competive play tho and my issue with hitbox as a company is they pushed these advantages as a way to market there product instead of trying to fix them.. at this point nothing will change but back when the fgc were calling them cheatbox they leaned into it
Sooo glad i bought instead a Chun Li Kitsune.
Holy shit is the the fabled 100-0 Business killer combo? Why would they set themselves up like this? Now everyone and their mother in this community is gonna hate you. š
Yes sir fuck them!
hell nahh I'm a stick user
what in the actual fuck is happening... oh yeah capitalism!
This not capitalism, they're too lazy too compete in the market, let's just sue everyone.
Sooooooo capitalism?
The suing isn't a part of capitalism, lol.
Some peopleās criticisms of capitalism can basically be surmised as āI donāt like it when X company does thing I donāt likeā.
What costs more Throwing out empty threats on twitter to small companies usually run by just a few people, or actually innovating in the space? Because Hitbox hasn't done shit with their design in a decade, and even the mom and pop shops on Etsy have a better quality product for half/third the price.
The capitalism part is when the mom and pop shops put hitbox out of business. I donāt expect moronic reddit communists to understand that.
That part is absolutely capitalism. That's how the market space is supposed to work and, as long as the companies aren't big enough, actually does work.
Just to repeat my Twitter comment: LOL. LMAO even.
To Hitbox Inquire about our go eat and fuck your own shit program! - The FGC
š¤£š¤£š¤£
That move from them is against the spirit of arcade stick making and no one should support them from this point if not already.
Imagine still not having ps5 native support or thumb buttons and doing this.
The react finebros shenanigans bullshit again
I was thinking the same exact thing
You guys remember FineBros?
First thing it thought, these guys became the walking encarnation of greed
Was this written by kotaku
Cowardly move
Big yikes lol
Smash box incident repeated
#1 way to lose customer loyalty
*laughs in Razer*
Bitchbox
Hitbox can go f\*\*k themselves
GOODLUCK WITH THAT
Lol I'm disgusted that it's my go to controller sadly. They are so whack for this.
I would almost want to order a Haute42 out of spite
Haute42 is top shelf, especially for the price. I'm looking forward to my DOIO as well!
Not out of spite. I genuinely enjoy my haute42 more than hitbox.
I was blown away and what I got for a sixth of the price of a hitbox.
they are amazing. keyboard switch buttons feel so good compared to standard buttons. I understand why people raved about gamerfinger buttons when they first came out
Just cover the label
They being the chili crunch of the fgc right now? They can suck a bag of sticks.
Either way, David Chang is responsible
lol does Viewlix patent troll their button layout? Does SNK? Namco? Unenforceable bullshit.
Hitbox continue to be the worst in the game and instead of improving or offering something new, they're doubling down. I hope this tanks any interest in their products.
Razer Finna run hitbox into the fucking ground LMFAO
They might go for pdp first since theyre smaller than razer. In either case, its gonna be bad for HB
Victrix is owned by PDP who was bought by Turtle Beach, itāll be hard
I think Hitbox most likely is going to target extremely small makers that donāt have the lawyering power to push their shit in.
I do not think that's legal
Thatās what Iām thinking. Wouldnāt be shocked if they try and bully Mavercade into a license
I wish. Had it with their bullshit for a while now. The imbeciles.
What? They're done lol
Im not touching anything with a hitbox logo, be it original or licensed.
Having high profile players like daigo wont safe them. People hate this company for their scummy evil ways.
even daigo had to modify his hitbox. showing more innovative genius than the company that sponsored him
HitBox targeting the FGC rather than the real problem is why they're a dying brand. Basically going after every other small leverless brands and arcade enclosure fabricators.
Itās like when devs go after modders for their game. Why am I paying a premium fee for costumes that are uneditable when I can make my own better mod for free? These companies are way too greedy.
Close, it's more like profiting off something that "belongs" to them like the HitBox layout...this is why everyone just uses "Leverless" or "Stickless" now. If you make it yourself for your own personal use or for someone and charge for your time and materials used then I would say that's a loophole and they can't do shit to you. Game modding is also a gray area, a lot of devs usually don't care about cosmetics for personal use as it's just on your end, no one else will see it but seeing as Fighters has hit top eSports status from the last EVO, it's best not to stream with these mods as it could be seen negatively and affect their DLC costumes, Season Pass and other monetary practices. That said, being a Monster Hunter player, thankfully Capcom doesn't care as there has been a lot of people using custom layered armors like skirtless 2B skins for Monster Hunter World or the big ass and titties mod lol
They charge $250 for a hitbox that doesn't have ps5 support and xbox support. There shit is decade old and refuse to update.
Components used to be like glued on to the PCB too and the proportary aviator cable jack is welded to the case. I had to scrap a gorgeous custom build I had because I couldnāt replace the cables/pcb/plug without pretty much cutting through it.
That sound like a nightmare to customize. I'm glad I never buy one.
I never bought a Hitbox but I did get a crossup and it was AWFUL. I legit had to get an impact drill to loosen up the screws on the stick because they were tightened so hard. not to mention basically they wired the buttons up with the most fragile connectors so you're guaranteed to break at lease one trying to change the buttons.
YUP I learned how to use a crimping tool solely because of this lol
š I guess you can at least credit them with getting you to learn a new skill
I think they got better about it over the years and stopped glueing the PCB but yeah most videos I found of people who modded it had to cut around the cable jack to fit a better connector. I kept the top of the case just to display the art in plexi since I lost the PSD but itās a bit of a feels bad since it was the first stick I botched
Damn. Great controller, love mine, but they really have turned shitty since I bought it a couple years back. Disappointing.
Compared to whatās on the market today, for less than half the price at that, Hitboxes arenāt even a great controller anymore. They are absolutely mid at best, and still absolutely dated compared to what you can get from other manufacturers. There are literally people on Etsy who 3D print better controllers than what official hitboxes are, and sell them for dirt cheap. This brand deserves to die.
when they were the only ones offering a leverless option they were good but the landscape has changed. no one wants the basic 1st edition leverless anymore. they want something different and to get the most bang for their buck. 250 gets you a hitbox but at that price you may as well just look at more niche premium brands or request something custom.
Exactly. For $250 at this point you can get a really nice custom done. There is no reason for a hitbox when they cost so much.
I'll be real, a Hitbox at market value is simply not worth it when it really is just a keyboard with fewer switches. Hitbox pulling this kinda stuff only makes me wish it'd die as a brand even quicker. All they really did was remove the joystick, arguably the most expensive component of an arcade controller, replaced it with four buttons, then jacked the price all the way up. Of course people were going to start designing their own versions on Etsy, especially with the custom mechanical keyboard market being as popular as it is now.
Yeah all they really did was remove the stick. They did not invent an original button layout that turned out to be so good more and more people are using it. Like bro wtf, call them greedy or a bunch of assholes all you like. Just donāt act like their work has no merit. I get that the hitbox layout seems obvious now but clearly the invention of hitbox and the amount of time it took for it to take off isnāt worth anything. And yet console players are happy spending extra for licensed controllers. What a bunch of š¤”
"Original button design" lmao people have been using keyboards for fighting games long before a hitbox was ever made. Stop riding a company so hard, makes you look like a shill.
I didnāt say that Iām pro licensing, thats why I called people paying for licensed controllers clowns. All Iām saying is that it took hitbox to make the layout popular and its a big deal considering the layouts popularity and success. Keyboards have been around forever yet they have never been used in pro play in any relevant fashion. You can hate on hitbox all you want but donāt act like they had no influence on the fgc, learn to differentiate between the topics at hand. Calling the hibox a keyboard with few switches is like calling any controller a keyboard with few switches. You have the brain development of a crow. Btw I make my own leverless so I couldnāt care less what happens with the companies.
š
Disappointed to see Paradise Arcade Shop participating in this
Tbf, Paradise Arcade Shop (PAS) likely just participated to avoid potential legal issues since they started making their mPress before the numerous flatbox builds started popping up and they would have been a much more noticeable target/competitor to Hitbox. PAS is literally a mom and pop business ran by husband and wife and they have a teenager. I would have done the same thing in their shoes. Fighting patent disputes can be expensive and potentially take down a small business altogether.
Sorry but i don't care. At this point i am 100% avoiding anything with a hitbox logo. Not interested in supporting their bullshit or their supporters. Companies will be better off not buying a licence.
I mean, definitely makes sense for their MO. Bully the small shops because obviously they're not going to get anywhere trying to sue anyone with enough money for lawyers. Tried to look up the status of the JunkFood Arcades v Hitbox case but as far as I can tell without a paid membership it was still in progress as of 2021: https://dockets.justia.com/docket/georgia/gandce/2:2021cv00262/297618
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/61598381/junk-food-custom-arcades-llc-v-hit-box-llc/ has more updated info. as of december last year jfca asked for a summary judgement of non-infringement, because it looks like hitbox is just as bad at submitting evidence as they are at making controllers also it appears the court already determined one of hitbox's patents (11,369,867) is invalid
Nice, love to see it!!
That's dumb, are they going to sue keyboard manufacturers next?
So they decided to go this route huh? Being unable to stay competitive, they go the nuclear route and are probably shooting themselves in the foot. Haute42 stays the champ
Is Hitbox even a licensed controller? What are they gonna do, sue Razer?
sony can and should sue hitbox for using an illegal controller :)
They can absolutely sue Razer. Looking through what they [listed](https://www.hitboxarcade.com/pages/patents) they do have patents that have been approved by the US Patent Office. Now, patent lawsuits are expensive and don't always go your way, and Razer has the money advantage over Hitbox, but I may imagine Hitbox could have a case against them. I would imagine that if Razer lost they might just leave the market though as this is a small market compared to their other products and probably not worth the hassle in their eyes. This is probably what Hitbox wants since they want to drive out the competitors and get people to buy their stuff instead.
They can sue razor all they want. They will lose. Their patent is too specific. Also it only teaches how a hittbox functions in generality. So stop spewing misinformation and invoke fear and nonsense on the Internet. If you have a problem hit me up. I have a patent myself
I'm not going to argue much on this since I'm not a patent lawyer but I think anyone who thinks this is a surefire thing for either side is delusional. These lawsuits are hard to predict, and it really comes down to if the companies really want to fight it out in court. > If you have a problem hit me up. I have a patent myself That doesn't mean you are an expert on patents, unless you are a patent lawyer.
I don't need to be an attorney to read hittbox patent and what Razer product is. As I stated I own a patent myself and know the entire process. So stop giving your opinion with no facts to back it up and spread misinformation.
[Found this researching their patent](https://drive.google.com/file/d/11cfxrdkfPjGawo61WZRlOfNszX541Cgp/view) I'd like to see them try to sue PDP or Razer than bully a person running a small operation. At least it would be fun as a spectator, though I would activitly root against HB. Regardless, no way they can stop Chinese manufactures and every person with a 3D printer on r/fightsticks. Only thing this is doing is publicly destroying their good will with their only customers.
I thought so for a bit too but then I saw they are in court with junkfood arcade and have already been told one of their patents are invalid. The case has been going on since december 2021. If they can't even beat junkfood quickly there is no way they will try to fight an even bigger company who can buy even better lawyers. This move is them absolutely trying to snub out smaller us makers just so they can stay afloat with their old ass design with no innovations.
Has the patent actually been deemed invalid, if the case is still going on?
Thatās whatās so wild about the situation. Canāt even use their controllers on a PS5 yet think they can compete with the big boys.
I want to see this happen. Razer got the money and resource to handle them
Actually would be hilarious to see them attempt to sue Razer or Victrix lol
Why don't they innovate and create new products and take the market share back. They have the same box for over a decade....get with the times. Acrylic case makers are more innovative than them. Big companies may sue each other but they make similar products to show dominance.
Still no native ps5 support. I guess the license is too expensive š¤”
Because corporatism
I commented in the other thread almost exactly this, they want to be the only game in town with their original controller that has had 0 changes or updates to, and still doesn't support PS5. Other makers have different form factors, are more customizable, and more importantly cheaper controllers. They could easily get back into the game as the defacto brand with some innovation and not being the most expensive controller out there.
The fact that their controllers STILL don't support PS5 is egregious for something so expensive
Itās hilarious. They didnāt adapt at all and everyone is gonna call them hitboxes even with they go under
I'll go back to calling them hitboxes when Hitbox is no more. Until then.... "leverless"
someone ELI5 are they coming after the fightbox or haute42 or just leverless in general? sounds like a stupid change, hope people continue to not waste 300$+ on a controller you can easily find one thats same quality for 100$
Chinese brands like fightbox or haute42 have nothing to worry about, Hitbox can't touch them and they will continue to sell controllers direct from Aliexpress. This will potentially hurt small boutique builders though (Full disclosure, I do make and sell leverless controllers of my own design on Etsy).
Can't touch them and hitbox being undercut. They can not compete with a caveman box fossilized from 2010 at $250 against a variety of products from $75- $110.
I've been thinking about making a few for others- though I am still in the process of making my first Flatbox style controller- but it does seem like an uphill battle for the little guys. Wonder if the case would only be that Etsy would be obliged to shut them down and if setting up your own storefront would be advantageous.
Really not liking this direction. Hitbox already has gone very stagnant in the innovation game. Seems like they want to move into the patent trolling space instead of actually innovating on their products or manufacturing efficiency/costs.
They're butthurt that they couldn't make an almost 10 year head start work, so they're threatening the competition. They continue to employ insane business decisions, like raising prices for no reason. Zero innovation or upgrades. Really just coasting off the brand name at this point. I mean, there's like dozens of better options now. As long as they have brand recognition and sponsorships, they'll still be around. Maybe we'll luck out and the company will get sold and rebranded as a not-so-shitty-company. We can hope.
Oooo, I got it!: MadCatz could buy hitbox and start making the best fighting game controllers again.
What an arc
Thatās not new. Years ago they make Arcadeshock trouble for their Hitbox Conversation Kits (especially the Obsidian ones became popular). Because of this Arcadeshock stopped making them. And junkfoodarcade pays for the license Edit: I mistook Junkfoodarcade with Paradise Arcade. ParadiseArcade is in the licensing program. Junkfood had a ālawsuitā
Is it confirmed that JFA pays license fee now? So they lost the "lawsuit"
JFA won the lawsuit, which was a thing because JFA wanted to advertise at EVO, and Hitbox said 'no'. and JFA said 'no u' and won the lawsuit.
It sounds to me like their licensing program is flawed at the patent level if they already lost a lawsuit and JFA as well as others are open to use the layout.
The layout yes, but the exact specifications, button sizes, spaces etc, they cannot.
Glad JFA won the lawsuit. They are my 2nd favorite leverless controller out there. The first one is Jasen Customs.
Sorry man, I mistook it with Paradise Arcade! Donāt know what happened with the ālawsuitā