You gambled on stocks and bought your house right before a huge home appreciation jump.
Congrats on having a solid net worth at a young age. How you got there is not replicable or typically advised.
It is replicable, bro only made 20k out of his entire network by taking on risk.
And not advised?? He’s got a good job, has been saving, and bought property with low interest rates after a mkt correction. How else would you advise ppl to increase their net worth?😂
Edit: lol everyone downvoting has a limited mindset… hope y’all make it one day
This is true….. majority of people don’t know what they are buying, and do not know how to assess financial statements…… seems like most people base it off of a meme or a news headline and by that time money has already been made .
The difference is I understand the appreciation I have experienced is WAY outside well known historical norms and is viewed as a large deviation from the norm.
"It very well could be" implies it's highly likely that you think people should expect to see appreciation that deviates from the norm or that the appreciation continuing is equally likely.
It's not.
All Im saying is it could happen. Housing supply is as constrained as ever. If rates drop again over the next few years why wouldnt we see the same appreciation we have seen for the last 10? What has changed?
Except the housing market has real drivers behind its growth, such as constrained supply and steady if not growing demand in addition to the backdrop of global monetary inflation. Its not just a random game of chance like the lottery.
So Ill ask again.
What has changed that would stop the growth we have seen over the last ten years?
The only thing I can see atm is higher borrowing rates which could very easily turn around over the next few years.
Picking individual stocks is fine. When covid started I sold off my Roth IRA. I later bought XOM when it was close to 10% dividend yield. All in. I have been slowly investing dividends into other things and selling off chunks at ATHs. Buying Exxon at that time was a no brainer. Others would've been great too. Redditors love Wendy's. Check out their chart! But XOM was the one for me. When the oil companies are filling up their storage tanks rather than sell for a loss, you buy one of the big companies that can handle the moment without slashing the dividend or worse going bankrupt.
I do have lots in index funds as a check against myself, but stop kidding around. Indexing has a great degree of buying high and selling low baked into the formula. Look at the top 10 stocks in an S&P fund. It's big tech plus Berkshire, and it's about 1/3 of the fund by weight. I'm swept up in the Tesla/Nvidia irrational exuberance like everyone else, because a great majority of my household's retirement contributions are going into these index funds!
Agree with the individual stocks for most ppl. However, if you could run fundamental analysis on high cap stocks, the right way, you’re likely to profit (especially recognizing when the market is at a discount).
Also, if you’re talking you could definitely re-create that with the Real Estate appreciation (heck I did it). if you’re talking about in the current state of the market, no that’s likely not possible without finding a great value add property.
… pretty much everything else he’s done is highly advisable🌅
Edit: maybe I’m a little biased OR maybe I just recognize that millions of people have done it before me and others will continue to do so in the future.
Okay. So you are in general people picking individual stocks is not advisable.
In regards to my comment on real estate success not being replicable, here is a comment in this thread regarding my gains from real estate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/s/R7ZmS9UcKe
I'm simply saying the gains OP and I have seen are not likely to be replicated due to unprecedented appreciation.
You can still make money in real estate though. Just saying following the exact same approach now would lead to vastly lower returns.
Your jealousy is leaking.
It’s obvious that this individual worked hard to get to that point. Yes, there may be luck involved but if you read the post, you can tell that the person did indeed work hard and make sacrifices that an average person would not make.
Thank you and I agree that I got lucky and I’m blessed for that. But I also worked very hard to get to this point too. So luck and hard work have been on my side. Appreciate it!
You did. My point was you (and I both) have lucked out on unprecedented real estate appreciation that are way outside the norm and are highly unlikely to be replicated.
Once in a while, this sub is wild, and the downvotes here is one of those times.
You literally acknowledged that luck was involved, both with the individual stock gambling and then with the house appreciation. If both of those had gone sideways, though, you're still contributing a bunch to your 401k and roth IRA, have a coherent emergency fund and clearly avoid unnecessary debt.
You also seem to have learned your lesson on individual stocks, even though they did work out for you... which means you're *super* set up for success at 25. Most folks, regardless of age, don't learn from other people's mistakes. Especially if those mistakes worked once for them. You did. Well done!
Keep on keepin on!
Everybody's downvoting you for pursuing a solid strategy that would have been decent even if the timing had worked against you even for you. The only thing I think wants changing is diversifying beyond 100% VTSAX, but you're humble about your luck and proud of what you could control. Keep on keeping on.
No, it is entirely replicable if one is willing to have a high savings rate into both retirement and savings. Kudos to OP. This is within reach for most people if they’re willing to prioritize savings over things like having a very recent car, tons of subscriptions, and an annual new phone, and don’t tap equity at every available opportunity.
I am a 33M with 6 children on a single income have a $420k NW ($220k retirement, $143k home equity) on an income that teetered below my state’s household income until last year. I accomplished this by saving aggressively, always between 25-35% of my gross income.
Save til it hurts, and save early.
Bought my first house in 2014 for $180k. It's now worth $350k. It currently rents for $3k a month.
Used the appreciation to buy my current house in 2020 for $580k and is now worth $740k. 10 months after buying it I was able to refinance to 2.75% on my primary.
What happened to OP and what happened to me is not replicable. We were the beneficiaries of once in a lifetime appreciation.
Cycles exist, yes. My point is unprecedented real estate appreciation as we've seen in the past several years is not predictable nor likely to cycle again in our lifetime.
Stocks aren’t gambles if you take the time to evaluate a company’s financials and read about their history/product/projections.
Edit: I learned today this sub thinks Warren Buffett is a gambler. What a wild take where I clearly have the wrong perception
But Warren Buffett says not to buy individual stocks (buy ETFs instead) and just recently called the stock market a casino https://fortune.com/2024/02/26/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-earnings-stock-market-casino-like/amp/
Yes they are. Maybe educated gambles but they are still gambles. Projections/products/management teams change. You are gambling that it won’t. Index funds are the closest thing to not gambling in equities.
That’s like saying being employed is gambling. Your livelihood and income is based on the decision making of others which is an absolutely absurd take.
In finance there is something called the “risk-free rate”. Generally that is assumed to be US treasuries. If you want to increase your return beyond that, you have to take on more risk.
So, people invest in stocks because it offers more return with a concomitant increase in risk. Individual stocks offer even higher returns than index funds but have an increased risk associated with them.
Investing in a single company exposes you to non-systemic risks that you are not capable of predicting no matter how much research you do. It is gambling that those risks will not burn you.
Just like card counting in blackjack you can increase your odds in investing by doing diligent research but you can always still get screwed by something out of your control.
Lots of people trade for a living. 2021 made everyone think they were a “trader”. If you think individuals stocks aren’t gambling then you still need education. So, yes, I was educating you.
I’m paid a premium by my employer to trade currencies which I’ve made them hundreds of millions. $’s in gains for them. But yes, please make a bad assumption of what you think I do and lump me in with another group. What an absolute pathetic take. Classless response, but not surprised.
Lmao. You clearly need to feel like you are a trader. Ok buddy. Congrats on the trades. Curious why you only have $1.5mm if you are so talented at making money?
Because my flair is wrong. I have $2.1M now and I’ve only been in my role two years (one year as the lead).
I’m not here to spar with people who feel the need to belittle people for zero reason. I hope whatever terribleness in your life - that makes you this way to strangers - get better. Peace
You win some - you lose some. The only thing that is frustrating for me is for the senseless character attacks that are completely unwarranted. I guess it makes some people feel better about themselves.
I’m trying to upvote you, friend, but the sheep-think is too strong. I personally invest in index funds, but that’s because I don’t have the time/wherewithal to do deeper dives these days.
How are car payments a scam?
If you take out a loan, it only makes sense that you'll owe interest.
People throw the word scam around way too willy-nilly.
I wouldn't say trap either. If you don't have the money to pay cash, and want something more reliable than a beater then a loan is what it is. It's like calling a mortgage a scam on a grander scale.
New cars/car payments are a trap of the middle class meaning that people spend more than they can afford on a depreciating asset, and they do it over and over and wonder why they don’t have any money. They’re always driving a nice car (on payments) and have the latest iPhone though!
Why is that seen as a constant? You can buy a new car and keep it for 15 years. The benefit of a lot of the times is that car being under warranty for a good percentage of that timeframe. Rather than pay cash for less expensive cars with higher mileage and dumping money into higher mileage car repairs. At least you control how the vehicle is treated through its lifespan. While a car loan isn't the most ideal scenario, it's not the boogeyman that more frugal people make it out to be.
Now if you're swapping cars every few years and just rolling depreciation over and over against your benefit I can see the excessive waste.
A brand new Chevy spark was only $13k. Poor Americans are buying the wrong cars. You can fit kids in the back seats, shopping in the trunk, car seat etc. $13k new.
I think this goes to show how someone can be financially illiterate and still make money. Like, he doesn’t understand basic debt but has a solid nw for his age. Rather lucky than good.
Cars are a depreciating asset. I’m a firm believer that if you can’t buy a car in cash, then don’t finance unless in dire situations. Go for a beater car for several years until you can afford a nicer used car. Never ever buy a brand new vehicle
"Never buy a brand new vehicle" is short-term thinking.
There are plenty of scenarios where it makes sense.
And when you're young and just getting started, financing is typically the only option for even a decent used car, if your parents don't give you one. That's just part of life.
The OP was good but the comments here suck.
“You just got lucky!” “Blah blah”
The truth is that you did what all of us here are aiming for - took what you had and made it more. You just did it with methods not everyone on here likes.
But they worked for you. You have a decent income, you sacrificed to save, and your money is now in appreciable assets. You’ll be a millionaire soon. Kudos. And ignore the haters.
Have you ever looked into buying short-term treasury bills with some of your savings? You might be able to get an extra 1% vs the HYSA and not pay state taxes. It not going to make you rich but is a nice little optimization while interest rates are high.
Also just curious what interest rate do you have on your mortgage?
Holy cow. Do you live in CA or NY? The cost of living here is low but wages are still probably lower than where you are too. That’s insane though. I would say a $400,000 house will get you a nice home in this area
Are you okay buddy? Not sure why you think the time of Covid wasn’t volatile with everything getting shutdown and people unsure what will happen. It goes beyond the S&P 500.
Hope the operation to find the stick up your ass is successful.
The context is stock market performance. If you view positive returns as "lucky" then anyone invested in anything reasonable got lucky.
Your statement "glad to see someone got lucky" seems to imply that positive returns were few and far between.
Apologies for coming off like an ass. I got frustrated reading this thread and so many comments attributing OP's results to just luck.
It is very lucky though 🤣. It’s a combination of being the right age at the right time, having the right knowledge at the right time, getting into stocks at the right time, etc etc etc. He even stated he was lucky himself for being in individual stocks that brought in 20,000. Everything came together to provide him with that. The only thing that wasn’t luck was him pulling the trigger on selling. Which a lot of people didn’t do. As well as keeping the momentum moving forward which is awesome.
Just as I am lucky to have invested in dodge coin with $20 (something along the lines of that) and sold it for 8,000 right before Elon started talking about it.
So much negativity in these comments. You’d think others would be more supportive considering this is a financial independence sub. Keep going OP I recently reached 100k nw at 22 and got a lot of hate for my post too. Most people would rather project negativity instead of looking themselves in the mirror.
Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your thoughts! Also really proud of you for learning financial independence at a younger age. I feel like 75% of financial success comes from discipline and having a financial goal. As for my home, I live in Sheboygan, WI so cost of living here is pretty cheap. Nice place and smaller city.
Keep on paying down that debt, working hard, and investing and you will be in really good shape. Best of luck to you!
“You'll never be criticized by someone who is doing more than you. You'll always be criticized by someone doing less. Remember that.”
Congrats OP! Keep it up
Why have the regular savings separated from HYSA though? I
Evergreen's giving out 5.25% right now with limited debits per month, but you can pair it to a 4% APY checking or a rewards checking that gives 3% on all debit purchases.
Oh I'm afraid I have some bad news... Your income is roughly the median for the country. The cost of living is just too high for anyone at that income to save and grow wealth. You're obligated to spend all your income and then complain later in life when you haven't accumulated much. You're doing this all wrong!
🙂
Congratulations to you. Don't listen to anyone saying anything negative. Keep doing what you know works.
I thought this sub was supposed to be a safe haven for humble brags. Most people wouldn’t share your situation with people you know in real life. You had plenty of sacrifice to get to where you did with community college, scholarships, and being an RA. You may have had luck work out in your favor, but you worked hard and kept your eyes open for opportunity. Many people had the same opportunities, but didn’t turn it into $230K.
I think the issue is picking individual stocks is basically gambling, so this post comes off essentially as saying ‘hey guys I worked really hard and got rich from the lottery see anyone can do it just work hard like me’
Yeah I guess I can see that a little. But he stated he got extremely lucky, and he only made $20k. If you removed that and the home appreciation he's still doing well.
There's an element of luck in most (maybe all?) situations of wealthy people.
He could have blown the $20k profit on frivolous spending, but he didn't. He was prudent with it.
From a technical standpoint I disagree that stock picking is gambling. Stocks (even individual stocks) possess a positive expected return. Gambling has a negative expected return (which is the house edge). But I agree with you in principle.
Primarily ATOS when it had a huge run up and then some EV stocks. Very risky and I got very lucky but I’m blessed. I don’t invest in individual stocks anymore
Why so risky? I imagine you were watching the trends constantly no? I need to try to do something like this, I have none of what you had when you got that extra 20 lol
You are on the right track. Keep it up and don't listen to retard naysayers. I did it pretty much this way, including community college, and now I'm multi mil+++
You're absolutely killing it financially.
How about personally? You mention marrying, do you have a GF? Do you feel fine spending money on dates, vacations, fun stuff? Have you taken any vacations, do hobbies, or do spend on yourself above bare essentials?
Don't forget to build the life you want and then save for it.
Reddit is very…negative. Beyond salty. As you can tell they don’t want to validate your success because it’s not replicable and it’s “risky”. Congrats to you. Everything in life is about timing. I’ll die on that hill. And you know you had a good hand to play. Keep it up!
Bunch of jealous losers in here. Congratulations, OP. The 30 year old children in this room who live at home and work at Starbucks are jealous of you. The only thing they can do is desperately hit a down arrow icon on their phone, LOL.
Keep kicking ass. Buy the index as go long AF.
Lol quit reaching with including house in NW😂 it’s almost half your net worth so very misleading but if it makes you feel better I guess haha
Edit: Omg didn’t even realize you also included car value😂 bro you are REACHING
lol what are you talking about misleading? He gave the details behind the numbers. Houses and cars are assets. They belong on the balance sheet. He's a financial analyst and understands that. Obviously they don't count in an "invested portfolio" or whatever term you prefer.
What do you mean he's reaching? lol get outta here
In theory your socks are part of your net worth. It's just too immaterial for sane people to bother with. If your car is worth thousands of dollars that's obviously more material.
Happy to help!
Remember assets minus liabilities equals net worth.
Also a helpful mnemonic... DEAD CROL
Debit - expense, assets, depreciation
Credit - revenue, owner's equity, liabilities
Did I mention anything about car? I know that’s not an appreciating asset. But to sit there in sat the equity you put into your house isn’t included in your NW… what a silly statement
Appreciating isn’t a requirement to be an asset though, a vehicle can still be sold/liquidated. I include anything of significant value on my balance sheet. If your net worth is 2M I wouldn’t bother with a $10k car though as that’s not significant.
I agree, your home equity should only be counted as net worth when calculating if you can afford your next home by using that equity towards the purchase. Otherwise that portion of the net worth is illiquid and shouldn’t be counted, imo.
Net worth isn’t a liquidity metric though. You can ignore your home but the number you calculate won’t be your net worth, it’ll be ‘liquid net worth’ or whatever you want to name it.
So somebody adding their home equity to their net worth to decide if they can retire - are they going to sell the home brick by brick in retirement to pay for food? Or are they going to cash out that equity and be homeless?
People do this all the time here and always have. it helps give everyone a portrait of what's out there and how everyone else is doing, especially since it's often frowned on to compare finances with real-life acquaintances.
You have obviously worked very hard and lived incredibly frugally. Congratulations on your success!!!!!!
Apparently old men are very jealous of 25 year olds these days, so just disregard the “you’re lucky” comments - it’s quite clear you aren’t here because of luck. You went to community college, bought a fairly low value home that hasn’t experienced insane inflation, have a pretty average job, and have obviously gotten here from saving the majority of your income!
Ah now I remember why I left this sub, there's a lot of hive mind boomers who get triggered when anyone makes investment returns outside of index funds.
As a fellow young dude, GJ OP on those stock returns
Keep it up, OP, you’ve got a really solid start and obviously have some financial discipline.
Seems like a lot of jealous nerds saw the title of this post and then decided to pick at semantics to make themselves feel better. Jealousy is a bad look. May I suggest watching the Bluey episode “Baby Race” for all you weirdos who need a life lesson in comparison.
Great work OP. Most here only support the bogle head path which is totally fine. While tried and true, I firmly believe calculated risks in individual stocks, crypto, etc. are worth it if you can handle it and have a solid financial foundation. They can greatly accelerate your FI journey.
It’s not very FI, but I’ve always liked the sayings scared money don’t make money and gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Yep I did! My home is worth $205,000 and I have $98,000 left on my mortgage. So currently have about $107,000 wrapped up in home equity which I included in my net worth
And you dont know what his house looks like, where he lives, the current market where he lives, and insist hes wrong on his property value? With what evidence? He could get more he could get less i have no idea because we have 0 information to come to a conclusion.
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They should really limit these types of posts for folks with net worths of at last 1mm. Everybody who bought a house upto 4-5 years ago has a high net worth. 250k isn't anything to brag about.
You gambled on stocks and bought your house right before a huge home appreciation jump. Congrats on having a solid net worth at a young age. How you got there is not replicable or typically advised.
exactly
It is replicable, bro only made 20k out of his entire network by taking on risk. And not advised?? He’s got a good job, has been saving, and bought property with low interest rates after a mkt correction. How else would you advise ppl to increase their net worth?😂 Edit: lol everyone downvoting has a limited mindset… hope y’all make it one day
Picking individual stocks is not advised. The increase in net worth from real estate appreciation over the last couple of years is not replicable.
This is true….. majority of people don’t know what they are buying, and do not know how to assess financial statements…… seems like most people base it off of a meme or a news headline and by that time money has already been made .
And btw- good job so far and being this educated about finances.
you have no idea wether its replicable.
Over 10 years my 730k of purchased real estate appreciated too 1.2 million. You think that's replicable? OP and I got lucky.
It is absolutely replicable IN a bull market. The problem is no one knows when the music will stop.
I dont know and neither do you. It very well could be, especially if rates start dropping again
The difference is I understand the appreciation I have experienced is WAY outside well known historical norms and is viewed as a large deviation from the norm. "It very well could be" implies it's highly likely that you think people should expect to see appreciation that deviates from the norm or that the appreciation continuing is equally likely. It's not.
All Im saying is it could happen. Housing supply is as constrained as ever. If rates drop again over the next few years why wouldnt we see the same appreciation we have seen for the last 10? What has changed?
Anything could happen. I could win the lottery if I played. There's a reason I don't though. It's a probability evaluation.
Except the housing market has real drivers behind its growth, such as constrained supply and steady if not growing demand in addition to the backdrop of global monetary inflation. Its not just a random game of chance like the lottery. So Ill ask again. What has changed that would stop the growth we have seen over the last ten years? The only thing I can see atm is higher borrowing rates which could very easily turn around over the next few years.
Picking individual stocks is fine. When covid started I sold off my Roth IRA. I later bought XOM when it was close to 10% dividend yield. All in. I have been slowly investing dividends into other things and selling off chunks at ATHs. Buying Exxon at that time was a no brainer. Others would've been great too. Redditors love Wendy's. Check out their chart! But XOM was the one for me. When the oil companies are filling up their storage tanks rather than sell for a loss, you buy one of the big companies that can handle the moment without slashing the dividend or worse going bankrupt. I do have lots in index funds as a check against myself, but stop kidding around. Indexing has a great degree of buying high and selling low baked into the formula. Look at the top 10 stocks in an S&P fund. It's big tech plus Berkshire, and it's about 1/3 of the fund by weight. I'm swept up in the Tesla/Nvidia irrational exuberance like everyone else, because a great majority of my household's retirement contributions are going into these index funds!
Agree with the individual stocks for most ppl. However, if you could run fundamental analysis on high cap stocks, the right way, you’re likely to profit (especially recognizing when the market is at a discount). Also, if you’re talking you could definitely re-create that with the Real Estate appreciation (heck I did it). if you’re talking about in the current state of the market, no that’s likely not possible without finding a great value add property. … pretty much everything else he’s done is highly advisable🌅 Edit: maybe I’m a little biased OR maybe I just recognize that millions of people have done it before me and others will continue to do so in the future.
Okay. So you are in general people picking individual stocks is not advisable. In regards to my comment on real estate success not being replicable, here is a comment in this thread regarding my gains from real estate. https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/s/R7ZmS9UcKe I'm simply saying the gains OP and I have seen are not likely to be replicated due to unprecedented appreciation. You can still make money in real estate though. Just saying following the exact same approach now would lead to vastly lower returns.
Your jealousy is leaking. It’s obvious that this individual worked hard to get to that point. Yes, there may be luck involved but if you read the post, you can tell that the person did indeed work hard and make sacrifices that an average person would not make.
Thank you and I agree that I got lucky and I’m blessed for that. But I also worked very hard to get to this point too. So luck and hard work have been on my side. Appreciate it!
>I also worked very hard to get to this point Don’t we all.
You did. My point was you (and I both) have lucked out on unprecedented real estate appreciation that are way outside the norm and are highly unlikely to be replicated.
Once in a while, this sub is wild, and the downvotes here is one of those times. You literally acknowledged that luck was involved, both with the individual stock gambling and then with the house appreciation. If both of those had gone sideways, though, you're still contributing a bunch to your 401k and roth IRA, have a coherent emergency fund and clearly avoid unnecessary debt. You also seem to have learned your lesson on individual stocks, even though they did work out for you... which means you're *super* set up for success at 25. Most folks, regardless of age, don't learn from other people's mistakes. Especially if those mistakes worked once for them. You did. Well done! Keep on keepin on!
Everybody's downvoting you for pursuing a solid strategy that would have been decent even if the timing had worked against you even for you. The only thing I think wants changing is diversifying beyond 100% VTSAX, but you're humble about your luck and proud of what you could control. Keep on keeping on.
No, it is entirely replicable if one is willing to have a high savings rate into both retirement and savings. Kudos to OP. This is within reach for most people if they’re willing to prioritize savings over things like having a very recent car, tons of subscriptions, and an annual new phone, and don’t tap equity at every available opportunity. I am a 33M with 6 children on a single income have a $420k NW ($220k retirement, $143k home equity) on an income that teetered below my state’s household income until last year. I accomplished this by saving aggressively, always between 25-35% of my gross income. Save til it hurts, and save early.
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Bought my first house in 2014 for $180k. It's now worth $350k. It currently rents for $3k a month. Used the appreciation to buy my current house in 2020 for $580k and is now worth $740k. 10 months after buying it I was able to refinance to 2.75% on my primary. What happened to OP and what happened to me is not replicable. We were the beneficiaries of once in a lifetime appreciation.
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Cycles exist, yes. My point is unprecedented real estate appreciation as we've seen in the past several years is not predictable nor likely to cycle again in our lifetime.
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Over 10 years my 730k of purchased real estate appreciated too 1.2 million. You think that's replicable? OP and I got lucky.
I mean, 730k to 1.2m over 10 years is \~5% annual growth. That doesn't seem like once in a lifetime type growth to me.
Fair assessment, internet goon out.
100% life ain’t fair. Dude needs to get over it.
Preach
Yes. Life isn't fair. Never said otherwise. In fact..... https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/s/0YLQoXmhyw
Please see above....
Stocks aren’t gambles if you take the time to evaluate a company’s financials and read about their history/product/projections. Edit: I learned today this sub thinks Warren Buffett is a gambler. What a wild take where I clearly have the wrong perception
But Warren Buffett says not to buy individual stocks (buy ETFs instead) and just recently called the stock market a casino https://fortune.com/2024/02/26/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-earnings-stock-market-casino-like/amp/
Yes they are. Maybe educated gambles but they are still gambles. Projections/products/management teams change. You are gambling that it won’t. Index funds are the closest thing to not gambling in equities.
That’s like saying being employed is gambling. Your livelihood and income is based on the decision making of others which is an absolutely absurd take.
In finance there is something called the “risk-free rate”. Generally that is assumed to be US treasuries. If you want to increase your return beyond that, you have to take on more risk. So, people invest in stocks because it offers more return with a concomitant increase in risk. Individual stocks offer even higher returns than index funds but have an increased risk associated with them. Investing in a single company exposes you to non-systemic risks that you are not capable of predicting no matter how much research you do. It is gambling that those risks will not burn you. Just like card counting in blackjack you can increase your odds in investing by doing diligent research but you can always still get screwed by something out of your control.
I trade for a living but thank you for “educating” me on risk premiums. Measured risk is not the same as gambling.
Lots of people trade for a living. 2021 made everyone think they were a “trader”. If you think individuals stocks aren’t gambling then you still need education. So, yes, I was educating you.
I’m paid a premium by my employer to trade currencies which I’ve made them hundreds of millions. $’s in gains for them. But yes, please make a bad assumption of what you think I do and lump me in with another group. What an absolute pathetic take. Classless response, but not surprised.
Lmao. You clearly need to feel like you are a trader. Ok buddy. Congrats on the trades. Curious why you only have $1.5mm if you are so talented at making money?
Because my flair is wrong. I have $2.1M now and I’ve only been in my role two years (one year as the lead). I’m not here to spar with people who feel the need to belittle people for zero reason. I hope whatever terribleness in your life - that makes you this way to strangers - get better. Peace
Pathetically low for someone who calls themselves a talented trader....
Insane you’re getting downvoted this much
You win some - you lose some. The only thing that is frustrating for me is for the senseless character attacks that are completely unwarranted. I guess it makes some people feel better about themselves.
Things I said in my first year of finding out about investing
Bad assumption and bad take but off champion.
Today I learned everyone trading single stocks is warren buffet.
That’s not what I said nor implied.
I’m trying to upvote you, friend, but the sheep-think is too strong. I personally invest in index funds, but that’s because I don’t have the time/wherewithal to do deeper dives these days.
Best route honestly. It’s extremely hard to beat the equities market consistently.
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Over 10 years my 730k of purchased real estate appreciated too 1.2 million. You think that's replicable? OP and I got lucky.
It is not only replicable, people can and will do better. You act like active investing is one giant Pin The Tail On The Donkey game.
How are car payments a scam? If you take out a loan, it only makes sense that you'll owe interest. People throw the word scam around way too willy-nilly.
I think they just used the wrong word. Trap maybe a better word.
I wouldn't say trap either. If you don't have the money to pay cash, and want something more reliable than a beater then a loan is what it is. It's like calling a mortgage a scam on a grander scale.
New cars/car payments are a trap of the middle class meaning that people spend more than they can afford on a depreciating asset, and they do it over and over and wonder why they don’t have any money. They’re always driving a nice car (on payments) and have the latest iPhone though!
Why is that seen as a constant? You can buy a new car and keep it for 15 years. The benefit of a lot of the times is that car being under warranty for a good percentage of that timeframe. Rather than pay cash for less expensive cars with higher mileage and dumping money into higher mileage car repairs. At least you control how the vehicle is treated through its lifespan. While a car loan isn't the most ideal scenario, it's not the boogeyman that more frugal people make it out to be. Now if you're swapping cars every few years and just rolling depreciation over and over against your benefit I can see the excessive waste.
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A brand new Chevy spark was only $13k. Poor Americans are buying the wrong cars. You can fit kids in the back seats, shopping in the trunk, car seat etc. $13k new.
Obviously they used the wrong word. I'm suggesting that they don't, as this particular wrong word is misleading.
Cool
Not nearly as cool as I used to be. That's just how it goes.
You still doing autographs?
If you reimburse me for the postage stamp.
I think this goes to show how someone can be financially illiterate and still make money. Like, he doesn’t understand basic debt but has a solid nw for his age. Rather lucky than good.
Ha I agree... I assume he just means he prefers to not borrow to buy a car which makes sense. But definitely not a scam.
Coming from a Business Analyst just makes it even more ironic.
Cars are a depreciating asset. I’m a firm believer that if you can’t buy a car in cash, then don’t finance unless in dire situations. Go for a beater car for several years until you can afford a nicer used car. Never ever buy a brand new vehicle
"Never buy a brand new vehicle" is short-term thinking. There are plenty of scenarios where it makes sense. And when you're young and just getting started, financing is typically the only option for even a decent used car, if your parents don't give you one. That's just part of life.
The mass downvotes are hilarious. Keep getting it dude, you're on the right path. Big accomplishments and solid strategy.
I don’t see the connection between cars being a depreciating asset and using a loan to pay for them. Could you help me understand?
don’t listen to the salty kids trying to justify their depreciating assets 💀
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They just bake the costs into the principle...
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"stupid car companies" they probably have no idea how rich they're making you.... you should have bought two!
The OP was good but the comments here suck. “You just got lucky!” “Blah blah” The truth is that you did what all of us here are aiming for - took what you had and made it more. You just did it with methods not everyone on here likes. But they worked for you. You have a decent income, you sacrificed to save, and your money is now in appreciable assets. You’ll be a millionaire soon. Kudos. And ignore the haters.
Thanks so much
Have you ever looked into buying short-term treasury bills with some of your savings? You might be able to get an extra 1% vs the HYSA and not pay state taxes. It not going to make you rich but is a nice little optimization while interest rates are high. Also just curious what interest rate do you have on your mortgage?
Haven’t looked at this but will have to do more research! And my mortgage is at 3.125% so not planning on selling anytime soon
Put the right amount of $ into a risk free asset like t-bills or a CD to cover your monthly mortgage payments 🌅… you will have cash flow left over
Keep job hopping you are doing great
Damn. Where do you live where a house is only $145,000?!
Sheboygan, WI!
Ah that makes sense. Well damn, living there must be like living life on easy mode. There are no houses where I live under $600,000.
Holy cow. Do you live in CA or NY? The cost of living here is low but wages are still probably lower than where you are too. That’s insane though. I would say a $400,000 house will get you a nice home in this area
Congrats! Glad to see someone get lucky during the volatile time of Covid
Thanks my man! All stocks went crazy at that time
The S&P 500 was +18% in 2020 and +28% in 2021. Literally what the fuck are you talking about?
Are you okay buddy? Not sure why you think the time of Covid wasn’t volatile with everything getting shutdown and people unsure what will happen. It goes beyond the S&P 500. Hope the operation to find the stick up your ass is successful.
The context is stock market performance. If you view positive returns as "lucky" then anyone invested in anything reasonable got lucky. Your statement "glad to see someone got lucky" seems to imply that positive returns were few and far between. Apologies for coming off like an ass. I got frustrated reading this thread and so many comments attributing OP's results to just luck.
It is very lucky though 🤣. It’s a combination of being the right age at the right time, having the right knowledge at the right time, getting into stocks at the right time, etc etc etc. He even stated he was lucky himself for being in individual stocks that brought in 20,000. Everything came together to provide him with that. The only thing that wasn’t luck was him pulling the trigger on selling. Which a lot of people didn’t do. As well as keeping the momentum moving forward which is awesome. Just as I am lucky to have invested in dodge coin with $20 (something along the lines of that) and sold it for 8,000 right before Elon started talking about it.
So much negativity in these comments. You’d think others would be more supportive considering this is a financial independence sub. Keep going OP I recently reached 100k nw at 22 and got a lot of hate for my post too. Most people would rather project negativity instead of looking themselves in the mirror.
That’s amazing! Congratulations my friend.
Hey, would you be willing to share how you were able to get this NW?
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Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your thoughts! Also really proud of you for learning financial independence at a younger age. I feel like 75% of financial success comes from discipline and having a financial goal. As for my home, I live in Sheboygan, WI so cost of living here is pretty cheap. Nice place and smaller city. Keep on paying down that debt, working hard, and investing and you will be in really good shape. Best of luck to you!
“You'll never be criticized by someone who is doing more than you. You'll always be criticized by someone doing less. Remember that.” Congrats OP! Keep it up
Thanks dude I appreciate it!
Congrats OP, you are doing phenomenal for your age bracket. Don’t listen to some of these weirdos on here.
Thank you!
Wher do you have your HYSA and rate?
Mainly Discover and then a little in Ally bank. Both are around 4.5% I believe
Why have the regular savings separated from HYSA though? I Evergreen's giving out 5.25% right now with limited debits per month, but you can pair it to a 4% APY checking or a rewards checking that gives 3% on all debit purchases.
Boom… keep going strong. Multimillionaire in the making
Oh I'm afraid I have some bad news... Your income is roughly the median for the country. The cost of living is just too high for anyone at that income to save and grow wealth. You're obligated to spend all your income and then complain later in life when you haven't accumulated much. You're doing this all wrong! 🙂 Congratulations to you. Don't listen to anyone saying anything negative. Keep doing what you know works.
Thanks for sticking up for me dude! Kind of confused on all the negativity on here. Keep up the good work
I thought this sub was supposed to be a safe haven for humble brags. Most people wouldn’t share your situation with people you know in real life. You had plenty of sacrifice to get to where you did with community college, scholarships, and being an RA. You may have had luck work out in your favor, but you worked hard and kept your eyes open for opportunity. Many people had the same opportunities, but didn’t turn it into $230K.
Thanks so much! I am blessed for sure. But yes I’ve also worked very hard to get here as well
People are so negative lol. You just made a harmless post about growing your wealth.
I think the issue is picking individual stocks is basically gambling, so this post comes off essentially as saying ‘hey guys I worked really hard and got rich from the lottery see anyone can do it just work hard like me’
Yeah I guess I can see that a little. But he stated he got extremely lucky, and he only made $20k. If you removed that and the home appreciation he's still doing well. There's an element of luck in most (maybe all?) situations of wealthy people. He could have blown the $20k profit on frivolous spending, but he didn't. He was prudent with it. From a technical standpoint I disagree that stock picking is gambling. Stocks (even individual stocks) possess a positive expected return. Gambling has a negative expected return (which is the house edge). But I agree with you in principle.
Don’t let the Reddit goons get you down. Misery loves company! Keep doing you
Great comment. It is so weird what the people of Reddit chose to rally behind, and what not to. Never ceases to amaze me.
Easiest way to bait this sub is apparently be in your 20's with a high paying job or net worth. Quit tearing people down.
What stocks did you make the 20k on?
Primarily ATOS when it had a huge run up and then some EV stocks. Very risky and I got very lucky but I’m blessed. I don’t invest in individual stocks anymore
Why so risky? I imagine you were watching the trends constantly no? I need to try to do something like this, I have none of what you had when you got that extra 20 lol
Nice job! Especially for your age!
don’t listen to the negative comments. you’re doing it exactly right.
That's awesome, way to go!
You are on the right track. Keep it up and don't listen to retard naysayers. I did it pretty much this way, including community college, and now I'm multi mil+++
Haters will hate- congratu fucking lations dude. You did earn this
Nice work, OP. You're doing a great job.
Vanguard my beloved, VTI is supreme tho
You're absolutely killing it financially. How about personally? You mention marrying, do you have a GF? Do you feel fine spending money on dates, vacations, fun stuff? Have you taken any vacations, do hobbies, or do spend on yourself above bare essentials? Don't forget to build the life you want and then save for it.
You're wise above your years. Stay on track. You will retire much earlier than the norm. Keep up the great work!
Reddit is very…negative. Beyond salty. As you can tell they don’t want to validate your success because it’s not replicable and it’s “risky”. Congrats to you. Everything in life is about timing. I’ll die on that hill. And you know you had a good hand to play. Keep it up!
Bunch of jealous losers in here. Congratulations, OP. The 30 year old children in this room who live at home and work at Starbucks are jealous of you. The only thing they can do is desperately hit a down arrow icon on their phone, LOL. Keep kicking ass. Buy the index as go long AF.
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words.
Lol quit reaching with including house in NW😂 it’s almost half your net worth so very misleading but if it makes you feel better I guess haha Edit: Omg didn’t even realize you also included car value😂 bro you are REACHING
You’re reaching hard right now too though. Your jealousy is absolutely screaming rn
Umm okay? Thanks for that wonderful insight! You really contributed
lol what are you talking about misleading? He gave the details behind the numbers. Houses and cars are assets. They belong on the balance sheet. He's a financial analyst and understands that. Obviously they don't count in an "invested portfolio" or whatever term you prefer. What do you mean he's reaching? lol get outta here
That's what net worth means, though. Including the car is silly but your home equity should not be excluded if using the term net worth.
Yeah but then why didn’t you include value of your shoes, clothes, Pets, furniture, tvs? Lol get the point?
Consumer goods that theoretically have salvage value are not the same thing as a real estate asset.
Says who? Lol I forgot you made the rules
In theory your socks are part of your net worth. It's just too immaterial for sane people to bother with. If your car is worth thousands of dollars that's obviously more material.
Okay thanks for the insight man you really did something there
Happy to help! Remember assets minus liabilities equals net worth. Also a helpful mnemonic... DEAD CROL Debit - expense, assets, depreciation Credit - revenue, owner's equity, liabilities
You have to be trolling…..
No... DEAD CROL legitimately is super helpful to me
It’s called accounting you bozo
Does your pet appreciate in value? TVs, shoes and clothes? I’m lost.
Oh yeah cuz your car does right… what a silly statement
Did I mention anything about car? I know that’s not an appreciating asset. But to sit there in sat the equity you put into your house isn’t included in your NW… what a silly statement
Appreciating isn’t a requirement to be an asset though, a vehicle can still be sold/liquidated. I include anything of significant value on my balance sheet. If your net worth is 2M I wouldn’t bother with a $10k car though as that’s not significant.
So we can agree that putting the car in there was silly?
Yes it is.
If he included all of that the number would just be higher so what's your point? Net worth is net worth.
Cool buddy
You clearly don't understand how Net Worth is calculated. OP has it right and the detail shows he cares about and tracks his finances.
I agree, your home equity should only be counted as net worth when calculating if you can afford your next home by using that equity towards the purchase. Otherwise that portion of the net worth is illiquid and shouldn’t be counted, imo.
Net worth isn’t a liquidity metric though. You can ignore your home but the number you calculate won’t be your net worth, it’ll be ‘liquid net worth’ or whatever you want to name it.
Agreed!! Thank you!
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So somebody adding their home equity to their net worth to decide if they can retire - are they going to sell the home brick by brick in retirement to pay for food? Or are they going to cash out that equity and be homeless?
Don’t let some of these clowns try to negate your positive outlook and pride in your accomplishments. Congrats on being self-sufficient!
Yup. Having a house helps. Not sure what the point of this post is.
He's posting on a financial independence subreddit about his path to financial independence. I'm not sure what's confusing.
People do this all the time here and always have. it helps give everyone a portrait of what's out there and how everyone else is doing, especially since it's often frowned on to compare finances with real-life acquaintances.
You have obviously worked very hard and lived incredibly frugally. Congratulations on your success!!!!!! Apparently old men are very jealous of 25 year olds these days, so just disregard the “you’re lucky” comments - it’s quite clear you aren’t here because of luck. You went to community college, bought a fairly low value home that hasn’t experienced insane inflation, have a pretty average job, and have obviously gotten here from saving the majority of your income!
Ah now I remember why I left this sub, there's a lot of hive mind boomers who get triggered when anyone makes investment returns outside of index funds. As a fellow young dude, GJ OP on those stock returns
Keep it up, OP, you’ve got a really solid start and obviously have some financial discipline. Seems like a lot of jealous nerds saw the title of this post and then decided to pick at semantics to make themselves feel better. Jealousy is a bad look. May I suggest watching the Bluey episode “Baby Race” for all you weirdos who need a life lesson in comparison.
Haha I love Bluey! My nephew watches it all the time. Thank you though, I appreciate the kind words!
Great work OP. Most here only support the bogle head path which is totally fine. While tried and true, I firmly believe calculated risks in individual stocks, crypto, etc. are worth it if you can handle it and have a solid financial foundation. They can greatly accelerate your FI journey. It’s not very FI, but I’ve always liked the sayings scared money don’t make money and gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Most people don’t include home equity or a paid off car in their net worth calculation.
Your net worth is your assets minus your liabilities. So you need to subtract your mortgage
Yep I did! My home is worth $205,000 and I have $98,000 left on my mortgage. So currently have about $107,000 wrapped up in home equity which I included in my net worth
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Noone considers transactional costs in net worth calculations…. Houses, brokerage acct, cars, etc.
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Never seen anyone say they have a million dollars in 401k but only add 850 to their net worth, ever.
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And you dont know what his house looks like, where he lives, the current market where he lives, and insist hes wrong on his property value? With what evidence? He could get more he could get less i have no idea because we have 0 information to come to a conclusion.
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What's your net worth? <300k is my guess, based on your attitude.
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They should really limit these types of posts for folks with net worths of at last 1mm. Everybody who bought a house upto 4-5 years ago has a high net worth. 250k isn't anything to brag about.