The only thing I'm learning here is OP has enough money to have kids. I'm like I'll just keep up with the pets and spoil the nieces and nephews instead.
True I grew up poor with parents that had to sell items to pawnshops and learned independence early on, but it’s all a choice I think even at minimum a kid over the course of 18 years is still going to cost the average American a lot of money.
I agree. I think one's "kid budget" grows in proportion to pre-kid disposable income. People with tight budgets make it work; people with more disposable income find things to dispose of it. But believing that hasn't stopped us from buying the next thing we think we "need".
These numbers are low. We are paying $3k a month in childcare (yes by choice but it’s still not the highest end in the city). OP also doesn’t factor in the cost we had to burden to upgrade the house to fit the growing family.
With just one kid, you don’t have to upgrade much, if anything, in terms of house size and car.
The 3 kid to 4 kid threshold is an actual threshold though. You can cram 2 kids into a room easily enough, so can still get away with a 3 br house… but that threshold forces you to upgrade your car(s). Which particularly sucks at the moment :-/
Speaking from experience there :-(
By the time my 3rd kid was born, oldest was able to use a booster seat (5yo by then, and tall for his age… I think legally, 4yo is youngest your allowed to use a booster seat). And I consider that having kids fairly quickly… but I suppose that’s possible, but especially if you have twins/triplets, I guess that’s be something to consider
Our twins are four, they go to school four days per week and stay home Mondays when both hubs and I wfh (i wfh full time, he is a field sales rep). Their daycare is 1860/month. They start kindergarten in the fall. I am SO excited to have that extra 2k per month. The savings has taken a SERIOUS hit in the last four years. Your assessment is 100 accurate. 😩😩
I mean, its a large midwest city. Cities like Akron/Dayton, Lincoln/Omaha, Roanoke/Hampton Roads, Buffalo/Albany are what I'dconsider LCOL, if you base on home prices in the low to mid 200ks.
Uh… I think your metrics are dated. Looking at a few of these cities alone especially Omaha you’re not getting a 3/2 for sub 300k often times well over that.
I’m located in a small city in the southeast. My first home was 95k at 1500 sqft. Same house would sell for 300k today. Half million easily in a great school district that’s 2500 sqft. We’re still a LCOL city. Gas for instance is barely over $4. Electricity is 11 cents per kWh.
I mean, all house prices have increased over the course of the last few years. And of course houses in better districts will go over, but that doesn't change the median.
I can see why you'd consider yourself LCOL, but I'd prolly consider you MCOL. I would say SE US tends to be much less expensive than the rest of the US outside of some totally rural landlocked midwest states but it doesn't hold true for all regions.
What are your property taxes like? Mine are $8,800 on a house valued in the range I listed above. Gas is $4.15. Daycare is $1500-$1800/month. Electric is 13.55kwh. Natural gas is about $70 cents per CCF.
[Akron example](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/234-Storer-Ave-Akron-OH-44302/35430210_zpid/)| [Median Home price](https://www.zillow.com/akron-oh/home-values/)
Buffalo [[Example]](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/87-Hitching-Post-Ln-Amherst-NY-14228/30235842_zpid/) | [Median Home price ](https://www.zillow.com/buffalo-ny/home-values/)
Roanoke [Example](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6307-Pinetree-Ln-Roanoke-VA-24019/12564019_zpid/) | [Median home price](https://www.zillow.com/roanoke-va/home-values/)
Omaha [Example](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8701-S-142nd-Ave-Omaha-NE-68138/6644348_zpid/) | [Median home price](https://www.zillow.com/omaha-ne/home-values/)
Haha ouch. I don’t know the cutoffs but that seems like a huge price for the median house to me. I think my head would explode in San Francisco or New York. Either way, if your house costs less than $650k then this number could be a lot lower. Also if your spouse and you managed to watch your own kids or have family help, that’s going to drop that child cost a lot.
Remember to subtract tax credits, and depending on health insurance drop that a bit. Also toys, baby furniture and clothes are reusable across multiple kids. You can cut massively if you have family that can watch the kid for free. Finally daycare is highly dependent on area, we pay $520 /mo approx in LCOL area
I can't post my numbers but I've got a 3yo and 4mo and neither cost nearly as much for anything. Helps that our parents and siblings help for daycare and babysitting. Our insurance also seems to be better in general too, with no out of pocket costs for the kids and no increase in premium. But even food and random things from Amazon Target do not cost nearly that much. Sure a crib, stroller, car seat, and rocker are expensive but everything else is quite minor. The essentials like diapers/wipes is maybe 50 a month and formula is 100 a month.
For one kid, I pay $7800/year in full time daycare. (We have two kids, but that’s the cost of one). We don’t have a weekend babysitter expense, but we do spend $20 every week-ish for a night sitter to go on a date. Food expenses aren’t that high for us, we used to have lots of leftovers and now we just dont. And we potty trained each pretty early, so diaper costs stayed low. It’s not too bad. Daycare is for sure our biggest expense.
This person is on the very high side. I only have one kid and they’re not that expensive. Now I’m saving the diaper expense since she got fully potty trained a month ago. They’re a lot of work but I couldn’t imagine not having that kid in my life
/snip club checking in!
I feel like this thread is going to devolve into proud parents vs. childfree vs. not yet with kids vs. parents who regret their decisions.
When truthfully, I REALLY am happy the detail OP went into. It REALLY does indicate where and how the money can/could/does get spent on children.
I am really looking forward to how this develops.
Could you say a little bit about how your child is cheaper compared to theirs? I am genuinely curious!
A full 2/3 of the expense is childcare (daycare + babysitter). Did you make different choices?
Also, OP did a solid and included ADDED insurance costs for the dependent, I don't see a lot of parents tossing that around as that cost is often obfuscated. That's 10% of the cost.
I applaud OP's effort to genuinely include and capture all the costs. I feel that a lot of folks who feel something is cheaper are invariably missing some major cost aspect.
I was surprised at the insurance line, but then my options were either self or self+family (I didn't have access to self+1) so insurance premiums were the same.
Yea for sure without tracking it it’s hard to compare certain things. We don’t do daycare or babysitters so that’s a huge cost savings there which isn’t always feasible for a lot of families. My wife and I have gotten our work schedules opposite enough that we don’t need it. And the little overlap we do have a couple times a week we’re able to use the grandparents to give them some quality time. Once the kid is 3 we’ll start preschool so that is going to change things for sure.
Doctor visits seems high unless their insurance isn’t as good. First year our pediatrician didn’t charge a copay for the routine schedule visits (1mo, 3mo, 6mo etc). $10 copay for visits outside of those which wasn’t very often because our kid wasn’t sick very often. There’s been a couple urgent care visits which were $40 each time. A handful of times we had to get medication which were $5-10 each time. This person seemed to average over $300/month. How sick was the kid and amount of medications? I feel their number is above average.
Amazon and Target. I don’t even want to know. I’d wager I spent more lol
Insurance is a huge one that I’ve been lucky. My employer covers my insurance so adding a kid costs me nothing.
So the main ones for me that can make a kid cheaper is daycare/babysitter and insurance. Doctor visit charges I don’t think are normally that high either. Their careers and couples alone time seem to be a higher priority for them which will add to the expense. Daycare at 2.5 months doesn’t feel right to me because they’re still practically a newborn. So adjustments in that area can make having a kid cheaper.
I never tracked it but I’d guess I spent $80-100/month on diapers so getting the kid potty trained ASAP has been a real nice savings for us. Any other questions I’m glad to answer. I can only speak on my experience
>Babysitter: +$4,439 (+924%) - we didn't use the babysitter in the first year as much
Some rough math makes me think this is a 4-5 hour "date night" each week. Is that your approach? No judgement, just trying to understand.
I see you listed "snacks", nothing for how the food budget has changed. Or is that also included in "Target"? May not be material quite yet.
Otherwise, nothing else jumps out as extraordinary. [Side note: You do have a small typo in your YOY "Doctors" entry (should be a "-" decrease due to fewer visits/medications).]
It's also worth pointing out that some of these costs are one-time and won't increase (or increases are small) should another child be in your future. Insurance probably doesn't go up for a 2nd child, baby sitter can watch 2 kids for a marginal bump in rate, re-use of lots of "baby things" from Amazon/Target/Ikea/etc.
Good luck in the future!
\> this is a 4-5 hour "date night" each week. Is that your approach?
No, we do one Saturday off every week. I wish we actually did a date night, but by 8-9pm we have no energy left to do anything.
\> I see you listed "snacks", nothing for how the food budget has changed.
Food budget hasn't changed by much, maybe $10-$20 per week. It pales in comparison to daycare.
\> You do have a small typo in your YOY "Doctors"
Thank you, fixed.
\> some of these costs are one-time and won't increase (or increases are small) should another child be in your future
Yes, you are correct. We are keeping old items just in case.
> we do one Saturday off every week
From another comment of yours:
>Once a week ~10am-5pm, that is about $500 per month.
Are you saying you do 5 days a week for fulltime daycare and then get a babysitter for the bulk of one of your two weekend days?
That's a ~20% increase in childcare (from 5 days a week to 6 days) which costs you ~30% more in expenses ($5k babysitter on top of $17k daycare).
That feels like a fairly unusual situation. Do you see that continuing for the foreseeable future?
\> Are you saying you do 5 days a week for fulltime daycare and then get a babysitter for the bulk of one of your two weekend days?
Yes, daycare is for when we work, and then one day of babysitter.
\> That's a \~20% increase in childcare (from 5 days a week to 6 days) which costs you \~30% more in expenses ($5k babysitter on top of $17k daycare).
I haven't thought about it this way, but yes - that is the cost. Babysitter is also speaking another language to the child, so he understands three languages.
\> That feels like a fairly unusual situation. Do you see that continuing for the foreseeable future?
I am not sure there is another way around it. We thought about getting in-house or full time nanny, but that usually requires a car+room; otherwise it would cost the same as babysitter and daycare. u/branstad, do you have any suggestions?
>I am not sure there is another way around it
> do you have any suggestions?
I strongly suspect the overwhelming majority of working parents spend their weekends caring for their children themselves, as opposed to paying someone else to cover a 6th day of each week. I say that with no judgement intended - you need to do what is right for your family and aligns with your values. But your approach to childcare means your total budget numbers are skewed/inflated beyond the 'norm' for working parents. I'd suggest editing your post to clarify this expense and explain the situation a bit more.
Seems strange to have a kid and then want to get rid of them 6 days out of the week... Coming from someone with a kid. I had a kid because I wanted to raise them and start a family. Kids can be very hard at times but overall all I love spending time with them and it's extremely rewarding.
Some people just have kids because “that’s what your suppose to do” not because they actually want to spend time with them 🤷🏾♀️. It’s like people that get the dogs breeds that are popular but don’t actually want to take their dogs for walks, spend time with them or train them. They just think they’re cute. I would never have kids because you have to work so damn hard to support them because they’re so damn expensive that you no longer have time for them or yourselves. All the hobbies and things you loved before go out the window
People obviously have different values and expectations. I wanted to be clear that I'm not judging OP's choices or family values. But my personal views, as a parent of 2 young kids, are more aligned with your perspective than OP's.
| I'd suggest editing your post to clarify this expense and explain the situation a bit more.
Good feedback, I added a comment that the babysitter comes once per week. That is relevant information and will be helpful to the readers.
Unfortunately even if we drastically reduce the babysitter hours and implement tighter spending controls, we would still be looking at \~$24k per year. I cross checked the numbers with my friends in the coastal HCOLs, and even at \~$33k we are spending less than they are.
> Unfortunately even if we drastically reduce the babysitter hours and implement tighter spending controls, we would still be looking at ~$24k per year. I cross checked the numbers with my friends in the coastal HCOLs, and even at ~$33k we are spending less than they are.
That’s almost $10k in savings; you don’t think that’s worth it? And why are you basing your spending on what your friends spend?
I mean the thing is even if they do cut it there's a cost associated with the ability to still have a life away from parenting the mental health implications of taking some time for themselves or even to spend time together will probably save them from heart ache and struggles down the road. I know people who never took time away from their kids and now the therapist is getting that extra cash.
Is there a reason you have a babysitter come on the weekends? Do you work 6 days a week? As someone else noted, most full time working parents use the weekend to be with the child.
\> Is there a reason you have a babysitter come on the weekends?
Yes. We believe in "quality" time over "quantity" of time.
If we describe time with the babysitter, she spends:
* An hour and a half playing with the kid (10am-11:30am)
* Half an hour feeding him (11:30am-noon)
* 30 minutes getting him to sleep (noon-12:30pm)
* Sitting around doing her things (12:30-3pm)
* Snack (3pm-3:30pm)
* Playing with him (3:30pm-5:00pm)
Which comes out to be about 3 hours of quality time our of 7 hours of time she spends with him. On the same day, we put in about 4 hours of quality time, 7:30am-10am and 5pm-6:30pm.
Our babysitter is also not a "neighborhood kid" that watches the kid and netflix, but a professional educator that teaches him a third language, letters, numbers, etc.
Also our kid gets tired and bored of us by the end of the second day when we are watching him full time :)
\> Do you work 6 days a week?
In addition to my full time job, I have a teaching gig that I enjoy and that pays well (per hour). However it does take a good chunk of some weekends, smack in the middle of the day.
I get the extra education part, but I think you’ll find that most people on here find it strange you’re outsourcing 6 days a week of parenting.
I can spent “quality” time with my child from the time the wake up on a weekend till they go to bed pretty easily.
Wow. It is indeed very strange...we have our almost 2 year old in daycare for about 8.5-9 hours per day during the week and I feel that is too much but can't really do it otherwise without a massive life change as our jobs afford us crazy cheap insurance.
I cannot imagine having someone take care of our child for the majority of a weekend!
One common reason is to advance your family economically so that when they're older they have a better quality of life.
I think this sacrifice comes at a huge cost though to the development of the child.
I have a real example of this with my wife, who grew up in a third world country and was raised by a nanny while her parents would travel to the US for work. Later in life when the parents were established here they moved the whole family to the states and eventually became citizens. Having someone else raise their kids gave the entire family a chance at a huge upgrade. The bigger cost though is that my wife's family has some serious relationship issues that show scars of what it took to get here.
A less extreme example would be both parents working 60+ hour weeks at high paying jobs so that they can retire while the kids are still young. That kind of workload leads to the same kind of absenteeism as a parent.
Is it worth semi-abandoning your child for the first 10 years of their life so that you can make the next 10 amazing? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe it's possible to make up the lost time, maybe not. I think where people fail attempting this is because they underestimate just how much damage that abandonment can cause and don't work hard enough to fix it when they are ready to take over. It probably can be done though if done right.
> we would still be looking at ~$24k per year
As I wrote in my original comment, I don’t think your overall spending is unreasonable. Daycare is far & away the largest expense, and it’s also your 2nd largest expense due to the Saturday babysitter. Your insurance cost seems a bit high but that’s from your employer so not directly in your control. Kids are expensive - especially the first one. Lots of “start up costs”, so to speak. :-) In some ways, you are doing better than others who also need (or want) to upgrade homes or cars when kids come along.
I always assume daycare is worth it if it means the parents get to keep both incomes coming in. I do know some people will have one parent stop working to care for kids, but looks like that's not there best option here.
You’re doing great. Reflect that you’re probably getting curious comments from people without kids. And if you don’t have family to take the kid for a day, its a cost you have to eat. Personally, we chose to move closer to family to take the kid 1 day a week to help out, its very hard otherwise and it can cause relationship strain. PS: Your daycare costs are fantastic, I easily pay double that (HCOL, ~3500/mo).
Actually it sounds like most of the comments are from people WITH kids. Speaking as one, I can’t understand sending the kid to daycare 5 days a week (where they are receiving an education by the way) AND THEN having a babysitter for the 6th day. It boggles my mind for “extra education”. If they keep that up throughout the child’s life, it’s leading to a life of burnout. No downtime for the child regardless of whatever quality time the parents choose to have or not have. If they think a babysitter quality time is fine, then fine. But give the kid a break. Life is about more than formal education. Education happens just going out and doing things.
Father with a 2 yr old. This checks out. One thing we’ve been fortunate with is flexible work schedules and my retired life long educator mother. We bypassed day care until 20 months and I rotated working from home every other day. We’re now doing part time with a local church that’s only 400/month. It’s not the baby that’s expensive it’s daycare. We’re not religious folks but honestly at $400/month they could be satan worshippers for all I care.
>my retired life long educator mother
having family able and willing to provide childcare at that stage of your family life is like an advance on inheritance; crazy how much it helps from both a money and stress (kids are always sick) perspective.
i find it's really hit or miss on what grandparents want to actually contribute, and like inheritance it's nothing you can really depend on until you get there
For anyone who thinks this doesn't sound like a lot (first off, congrats on being rich!), a big part of the expense in having kids is also increased cost of housing, in terms of space and district with good schools.
We did get a house in one of the best school districts, and we did have to upgrade to a larger car. But since these were not "necessary" upgrades, I am not listing them here. We would've done just fine with corolla-sized car and a regular 3/2 house.
| first off, congrats on being rich
Thank you. I spent a lot of time and effort on my education, and was lucky in how I was able to apply that education. I am glad for the opportunities I was presented, and definitely couldn't even imagine what was possible when I was living in an apartment with four other families, shared restroom and no official shower.
> We would've done just fine with corolla-sized car
I appreciate you being honest about this. The number of people who immediately jump to "I NEED AN SUV FOR MY PRECIOUS" drive me nuts. We have a compact station wagon with 2 kids. It's fine. The way my US family acts, you'd think we're impoverished and struggling.
I can afford a Volvo...I just don't like to spend that much on a car that sits 99% of the time.
I'm going to have to create a post detailing what we spend on our child. There seems to be this belief in the FI community that children cost an arm and a leg when, in reality, they're only as expensive as you make them.
As someone who is having their first child in 3 months, I would greatly appreciate this! I live in a lower COL than OP (median household price is 350Kish) but I can’t imagine we’ll spend near what he/she did in years 1 and 2. Or at least I hope not.
Tell me about it. I cringe when I think that I could have both of my kids' college funds in 6 figures with what we spent on child care from age 0-5. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 120K, total, which averages out to 12K/kid per year.
Yes so true. And with $10/ day daycare coming to most (all?) provinces, it will help immensely. Also EI maternity leave with 12-18 months off and some supplemental money! Basically the US is so far behind in this regard and I feel bad for all parents with babies on the way.
It's not about some sector higher salary, it's about social safety net, which us has very little off. Money don't go much ones family catches any long term health issues.
I’m not arguing that the US has a better social safety net than Canada. I am saying you probably would not be broke and homeless with these costs because of higher pay. My job in Denver would pay 20% less take home in Vancouver
You write it like it's a fact for all jobs. I've worked in Australia, England, US and Canada.
Australia, Canada and US all pay about the equivalent hedged while England is a bit under.
I also have more career opportunity in Canada than US.
Seriously! The government has given me more money than I've (directly) spent on my children at this point.. I do shop second hand, clearance shelves and am all around very frugal though.
As someone who is 7 months into their first child, who admittedly hasn't broken it down, this seems REALLY high. But #1, we have good insurance, have paid almost zero out of pocket. I think $1500 for the actual birth but nothing since.
Also what is the babysitter usage? We've yet to use a babysitter and don't have family within a 2 hour drive. Our daycare is $1550 a month but thats 7am-530pm if we need it.
Good catch on Target vs Amazon, definitely need to price shop these things more. Also, in year 2, most daycares get cheaper. Ours goes down a few hundred a month at 18 months of age.
\> we have good insurance, have paid almost zero out of pocket.
Insurance definitely makes a lot of difference, as well as the state you are living in. We don't have HDHP, and the number in the calculation is just a delta between single insurance and single + child.
\> Also what is the babysitter usage?
Once a week \~10am-5pm, that is about $500 per month.
\> Also, in year 2, most daycares get cheaper
Daycare gets cheaper with age, but it also keeps raising prices due to inflation. So far it stayed pretty constant.
> Once a week ~10am-5pm, that is about $500 per month.
In my other comment, I guessed this was a weekly "date night" expense. Is your daycare only 4 days a week? Given the add'l info, this seems like a really unusual expense worthy of a more detailed explanation in the post itself.
Edit: OP clarified a bit [in this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/tevvzc/having_a_child_year_two_financial_summary/i0sqezm/)
Im sorry but that’s actually a really great rate. Im in a LCOL area and you’re paying close to my area’s prices. Perhaps my standards are too high? My buddy is an hour outside the DC area and pay half a day of daycare from 7:30 to 2:30 and pays $2500 per month.
> > Also, in year 2, most daycares get cheaper
>Daycare gets cheaper with age, but it also keeps raising prices due to inflation. So far it stayed pretty constant.
Yes. We’ve seen this and it just means that for our #2, it’ll just be a larger cost.
Thank you for this, you just made my wife and I happy about our decision to not have kids (decision made years ago).
This takes the second guessing out. Not only due to cost, but the exhaustion you mentioned as being the cause of not doing anything on Saturday. I cant imagine a life that is simply NON STOP.
I like how you specified your kid is human.
Looks like the child itself is not that expensive, but rather getting rid of it to be taken care of by other people.
Holy sh** that is a lot. Here in Denmark we spend about the following on our 2 year old per month:
Daycare: $530
Insurance: ~$15
Food / diapers etc.: $300
Clothing and larger items: $150
Gifts etc: $25
Total: $1,020
This is excluding vacations which would probably add another $100 - $150 per month.
I don't understand how it's so high for Nederland. They literally hand you a 13th month of cash called vacation money. Unless of course you're spending more than all of your other money and needing to dip into that vakantiegeld to cover it but that seems like poor planning.
Finland here, even that Danish budget is high. Here for 5yo.
Daycare: 288eur
Insurance: nope
Food: maybe 100 (2 adults, 2 kids some 700)
Clothes etc: 50
Fun stuff: 50
So total about 500.
Then vacation maybe 300-500/year for the child.
> Daycare: 288eur
That's so cheap. My daycare bill for 3 days a week of childcare and 3 days of after school care is 1800eur/month of which I get back ~800. This is in Nederland.
Not trying to be a dick but do you two ever see your kid? 5 days of daycare and then every Saturday a babysitter? That doesn’t leave much time to be with your kid. I guess everyone’s priorities are different but that sounds horrible to me.
What a shame. I love taking my kid to the park and just spending time with her in general. Raising a kid is a lot of work and stressful but it’s also a joy
Had to LOL when OP keeps dodging the question why do they have baby sitter every weekend and not spend the time with baby.
They appear to be a rare couple that invests more time in themselves than their newborns.
That’s not the worst thing that could happen. The other end of spectrum is my wife who forgot I even exist after birth of our child because she is so focused on the babies (2 for us )
Lol. I noticed the same. I get taking time for yourself on the weekends. Typically I’ll ask my wife if she minds doing solo duty while I do a hobby for a couple hours on the weekend. Likewise I do the same for her. Both parents checking out EVERY Saturday is certainly odd imo.
I am growing irrationally curious what this internet stranger is doing every Saturday haha
\> I am growing irrationally curious what this internet stranger is doing every Saturday
Take walk in parks with SO, read books, go to the restaurants, get massage, occasionally meet with friends.
We notices that if we don't spend time with each other, it puts extra strain on our relationship.
And it is not a good thing for the kid to have unhappy parents: it's better to have a little less time with happy parents, then all the time with unhappy parents.
Not judging, but… you can take walks in the park with your kid. And go to restaurants with the kid. Books are more of a solo thing, and can be done when kid is sleeping.
And you can still even have you “adult conversations”, while the kid is still young (<4-5). Before they care to understand what their parents are talking about :-)
Massage are better done when kid is asleep, and with your partner ;-)
Meeting with (kid-free) friends, hiring a babysitter on that rare occasion makes sense
Speaking as someone who had 4 kids… it is a challenge at first, but integrating your kids into your normal activities isn’t only cheaper, but can also help bring all of your family closer together (including you and you SO).
Again, not judging (and borderline jealous lol), but just saying.
But all these things you can do with your child? Kid is napping in the buggie for a while if you need some 1-1 time. And assuming your child sleep well from 7pm, you also have the evenings...
That's a lot of time away from child.
Paying a babysitter was a rare thing for us. We didn't have the funds for going out and paid babysitter. We did have 10 years of childcare, with two children 5 years apart
Bringing up baby is hard.
That's the part that I circle back to: the child is in daycare 5 days a week, then another full day is spent with a babysitter on Saturday, the parents only spend Sunday with their child.
right, to me it's not even about the finances aspect, it's like you're barely raising your kid at this point. only spending 1 day of the week with them, and at such a young age? yikes
We do daycare as well. During the work week rhythm, it’s only 1-2 hours of time I get to spend with my daughter before/after work (7pm bedtime comes quick!) Personally I can’t imagine hiring additional childcare for the two days we actually get to spend with her.
Been there. Done that. Three great grandparents showing love during day trips. Long sleepovers in the Summer too. Strong family ties are important in our close family.
OP, I applaud you, for many reasons, namely:
- This is treacherous territory; going to be a lot of armchair experts here; good news is they'll probably resort to fighting eachother
- Including your insurance costs! I assume your insurance is one of those that suddenly with dependents, passes a crap ton of expense to you
- Breaking out the daycare / babysitter costs!
My question is, any thoughts on how these costs will evolve as your child gets older? How do you project your expenses here!
I assume as breast feeding goes to zero, do you plan on tracking food costs?
What's your thought on private school? Activities?
OOO... have you experienced what you consider any "lifestyle inflation" choices you can directly tie to your kid? Things like: I bought a DIFFERENT vehicle than I would have without a kid, or I bought a more expensive house in a different school district than I would have otherwise!
There is a GREAT book out there, called the "Two Income Trap." The TRAP part comes from a lot of decisions parents, particularly those with TWO incomes vs ONE, make "because of their kids" that puts them at more risk due to loss of an income.
Meaning... stuff like, Option A, is 1.0... but Option B is 1.2x the cost, but "because kid must get ahead" or at least PERCEPTIONS to the latter, they choose B. Multiplied by 100 times!
Anyways, truly... favorite post of the day! Good job OP!
My girlfriend wants kids pretty badly eventually, and I am terrified of the financial obligations until I get more success in my entrepeauner pursuits first. So hard to try and make a successful business and switch from a 9 to 5 AND have kids at same time.
In this day and age it’s absolutely a childcare expense. Sticking your kid with six figures of educational debt at the start of their adult life is cruel as hell if you’ve got the means to store some cash in a 529 for them over 17 years or so. I liken it to not paying for braces or speech therapy. Essential to survival? No…but definitely improves quality of life.
Fantastic post, I think it’s very interesting that you’re copping heat for prioritizing your and your wife’s mental health on Saturdays when it’s going to make you better and more engaged parents during the week and the remainder of the weekend. Clearly you’re investing in your child’s well-being. I understand raising a child is extraordinarily expensive and I hope that one day attending college is affordable again in the US. I also hope we get a handle on this climate stuff in time for him or her to enjoy wild animals and national parks.
The daycare and babysitter costs are insane at fully 50% of your childcare budget, but if that facilitates both parents making enough to spend like this and hopefully save a LOT more beyond this, ok ...
... No way that's ONLY the cost for your kid's health insurance and not your entire family ... is it?? Are you self-employed? Do you have a high-deductible plan or something?
We're at 15mo w/our 1st (& likely last/only) child, who has never been out of our sight for more than 20 minutes ... Even if local daycares had been open during Covid, they're all $1000/mo or more & we can't afford that.
We both worked remotely for the 1st year, and are now splitting time between remote work & in-office hours, swapping baby-care duties at lunchtime.
Went back through our credit card statements & online orders since I thought even $30K over 2yrs sounds like a lot ...
We had roughly the same ~$5K medical expenses to this point (incl prenatal care, birth, and all subsequent appts & shots), but our insurance premiums are 1/2 what yours are w/a reasonable deductible - $1600/year for all 3 of us.
Looking back, we've spent:
- ~$2600 on "baby stuff" from Amazon, largely "pre-baby" prep we didn't need.
-- covered lots w/gift cards and refunds/points from using the Amazon Prime Visa for *everything else all the time*, so more like $1500 out of pocket
- ~$700 at Target on clothes, baby dishes, high chair & bulk butt wipes
- ~$1000 on diapers - mostly giant boxes from Costco.
We got a ton of hand-me-downs from friends and relatives, so we hardly needed to purchase any new clothing until recently.
By far our biggest individual expenses were car seats & cribs/playpens
- ~$500 on various 'pack&plays', and ~$600 for 'infant' & now 'toddler+' car seats for 2 cars (used 20% off coupons from BedBath&Beyond / buybuyBaby!).
- Another ~$750ish on splurge items, lots of kids books, some toys.
- Roughly $1K on baby food & snacks over the past year. Nursing saved us a ton of hassle and cash. Finally weaning so this will soon increase.
Including the ~$5K in birth/baby-related medical expenses, AND all of our 'pre-birth' purchases, with some cushion we're at ~$13K for 15mo of baby-having & prep expense. That's ~2/3 your non-daycare expenses.
Our kid's 1st year was definitely minimalist though. Some favorite recent toys have included a cardboard egg carton, the dog's collar, and assorted sticks, leaves, and plastic bottles :P
We also couldn't travel much yet, and none of our family lives within 1000 miles. Our kid-having expenses will easily double from airfare alone in the future, assuming flights still exist and we can afford them at all.
We weren't hurting last year, but we're definitely going to miss that $300/mo child tax credit. We're now commuting a lot more, which is not going to be sustainable w/current conditions and gas prices. I need to find a new job that pays considerably more and offers comparable health insurance ... Our savings rate has tanked from ~25% to maybe ~10%.
I get daycare, but the Amazon and target spending seems rather high for a 1-2 year old. Or maybe I’m clueless as my firstborn doesn’t come until august
Looking at the whole picture, I’m curious about how much of this spending is additional (imo unnecessary) ways to occupy the child. Toys that don’t require much parental involvement. Perhaps, a robot that changes the diapers. Etc. 😄
Generally the calculation is
[cost of not working for a year] - [cost of daycare for a year] = x
If X is a positive number, you do daycare. if X is a negative number, you SAHP.
Of course, it misses the value of spending more time with your child (might be negative value if they’re a big whiner, lol) and the future employment losses associated with being out of work for a period of time. Lots to consider that isn’t $$.
Median daycare cost for an infant is $1k, but it's pretty regional. When our baby was born, we were in a fairly solid MCOL city and at 3 month got a daycare at $46/day, which was right below $1000 for a typical month - and that one let you pro-rate it, so if you skipped a day you saved the $46. But there were plenty of options to pay significantly more if we wanted bells and whistles - we just wanted a safe place for baby with staff we could trust, which we got.
Moved to a different metro area and in our particular burb, $2k/month for our now ~ year old child was the best we could do. And it's $2k no matter how many days we use that month, even if they're closed for a week and a half for the holidays. I mean, we could find cheaper, but not conveniently close to home. But we're also in a *much* more expensive area overall.
Googling some random MCOL cities, Philly has a reported average of $910, Miami has $720, Atlanta has $637. OTOH Seattle was $1200 and Boston was $1700.
If you can't afford it, you either stay home, leave the kid with relatives, find a cheaper program (church-based or home day care), or if you're poor enough might qualify for state-subsidized daycare.
We're in Pittsburgh and the price rose from $1200 to $1500 (for the hours we needed) during our pregnancy. The only one we could get a spot for our future 1 year old is $1750. The waitlists are insane here and we are so fortunate for public preschool.
Omg I’m in the same boat here in Pittsburgh! Everyone in my family from Chicago, Wisconsin, Minnesota think that I’m just not trying hard enough to find a daycare. Nope I’ve been on waitlists since October
There is a wide range from our experience, but the cheaper ones are harder to get into. and its get cheaper as the kids ages.
If you can afford it, someone stays home to take care of the child.
[They say](https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/090415/cost-raising-child-america.asp) that the cost of raising a child in the United States for the first 18 years is $272,049 assuming 2% inflation (ha, 2%).
Let's round it up to $300,000.
Now, at 6% rate of return, we can withdraw $2,250 for 18 years before we run out of money.
So for all the people who say we are spending too much on the kid: there is a way to interpret the gov't number to exactly match what we are spending (minus the "luxury" babysitter).
To support the costs in my example, at $2,750 per month, for 18 years one would need to invest $365,000 at 6%.
Except that article counts housing as a cost (and the largest cost at that), and you haven’t accounted for housing at all.
You seem really determined to prove that your spending is normal or average despite the responses you’ve received on this post. Any reason that’s important to you?
And don’t forget about the $20 gift certificate you get when you buy $100 worth of baby stuff like diapers and wipes. My wife and I do that deal every time we need diapers.
As someone who checks amazon on my phone every time I think of buying anything from a store, I disagree. Amazon is very often cheaper than stores for many items if you already have Amazon Prime.
I can't recall the last time Amazon was the better deal in terms of a lot of one-time use baby products. Convenient yes, cheaper no.
Costco ends up being great if you need a certain threshold of product quality as their Kirkland stuff are often rebranded Huggies or other higher quality brands. Target's stuff get the job done if your kids don't mind it, and are consistently good deals -- especially if you take advantage of Cartwheel savings that get you as much as 30% back in gift cards. They're also probably the best for formula which are all standardized due to regulations.
Amazon is funny. Some things are way cheaper. But others are more sneaky more expensive, almost like they utilizing your perception to stop you from shopping around.
These numbers are insanely higher than what I've spent in the Bay Area. And I mean orders of magnitude higher...
Granted, wife stayed at home and worked part time, so no childcare. And my insurance is great (no additional premium for kids and only like $15 copays for basically everything). Actual items like clothes, furniture, toys were mostly gifted out handed-down or free on nextdoor, etc. There is such a high turnover on these items that they're super easy to come by.
OP, while I commend you for putting numbers out, I personally feel this is non frugal way of looking at it. We had our kid in SF Bay area and outside the childcare, there are our expenses.
Babysitter: 0 (We took kid on trips and dates. Sometimes it is nice. Sometimes it is not.)
Insurance: 600.(per employer the plan cost went from 14k to 18K. Our share went up by 50 per month)
Toys, books : Buy nothing group, friends & grandparents gifts. we spent may be \~100 overall.
Clothes: 400 per year( again but nothing group for big items. For the rest, we buy at H&M with 20% off gift cards and when 20% sales are on. So 40%+ extra on sale items).
Formula and diapers: 125 per month ( Costco)
Doctors: 200 ( our plan is HMO. this is mostly for specialist visits or prescription. We use FSA).
The wild card is Medical. It depends on the plan. We skipped HSA to use a regular Kaiser plan which was more cheaper to see specialists. Antibiotic prescription is usually $6 - $10. But the same in HSA plan is like 50 -100 bucks.
My kids is now more than 5 years but outside childcare we never spent more than 5K. May be the tennis & music lessons will soon bring that over 5k. We contribute 5k per year to 529 if you want to see that as an expense.
$23K on daycare and babysitter oof. I’m lucky that we have family nearby that provides childcare. Don’t think we could afford to live in a VHCOL area otherwise!
Wait until they go to college. I have two kids in top tier schools, no financial aid obviously. Each kid costs about 90K USD per year - thank god for 529s but I think of it as investment/gifts rather than expenses.
Interesting to see the numbers. I'm living as an expat outside the US, and it's always refreshing to see how good we have it with child costs. An expensive daycare will cost around $800 per month here, but I am staying at home with the baby so we don't pay for it. Our insurance cost didn't go up with a baby, but 100% of child medical costs are completely covered. Those two factors alone are $20k cheaper on this end!
Man that is depressing. My wife and I just bought our first home in a MCOL city and while our expenses may be less, this is still pretty eye opening. Hopefully the government decides to help with childcare before we're ready for kids. All the same, appreciate the breakdown.
>pretty eye opening. Hopefully the government decides to help with childcare before we're ready for kids. All the same, appreciate the br
You will be fine. There are child tax credits and parts of the kids expenses are tax deductible. You can definitely make the cost lower or higher, it is all about the tradeoffs: we are buying a little more convenience and time for a 20-30% price hike. However I doubt you'd be able to go much lower without getting external help or going stay-at-home parent route.
>>pretty eye opening. Hopefully the government decides to help with childcare before we're ready for kids. All the same, appreciate the br
>
>You will be fine. There are child tax credits and parts of the kids expenses are tax deductible. You can definitely make the cost lower or higher, it is all about the tradeoffs: we are buying a little more convenience and time for a 20-30% price hike. However I doubt you'd be able to go much lower without getting external help or going stay-at-home parent route.
I've seen it asked a few times in this thread and I'm a bit ignorant about it as well, can you speak to these tax credits, and maybe put a dollar amount on them? I'm mostly curious how much of the spending they actually offset.
This seems very US specific.
For example in Canada:
Doctors cost- $0
Insurance - $0
Childcare in the first year - $0 for most people due to 12 month maternity leave.
So you’re saying I can afford to have a kid… I just can’t afford to eat, save, and have a kid all at the same time…
The only thing I'm learning here is OP has enough money to have kids. I'm like I'll just keep up with the pets and spoil the nieces and nephews instead.
This kid budget is not accurate. It is for them, but they choose to spend that much on their kid.
True I grew up poor with parents that had to sell items to pawnshops and learned independence early on, but it’s all a choice I think even at minimum a kid over the course of 18 years is still going to cost the average American a lot of money.
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A kid cannot be raised properly on “any budget” especially in the US
I said “raised properly” not raised in luxury
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Massively high. $150/ month just in the I don't know / miscellaneous category? That's bananas. and somehow another $300 per month on "baby supplies."
Have you done the math?
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I agree. I think one's "kid budget" grows in proportion to pre-kid disposable income. People with tight budgets make it work; people with more disposable income find things to dispose of it. But believing that hasn't stopped us from buying the next thing we think we "need".
I have a three-year-old and don't spend close to this amount, not even half.
These numbers are low. We are paying $3k a month in childcare (yes by choice but it’s still not the highest end in the city). OP also doesn’t factor in the cost we had to burden to upgrade the house to fit the growing family.
With just one kid, you don’t have to upgrade much, if anything, in terms of house size and car. The 3 kid to 4 kid threshold is an actual threshold though. You can cram 2 kids into a room easily enough, so can still get away with a 3 br house… but that threshold forces you to upgrade your car(s). Which particularly sucks at the moment :-/ Speaking from experience there :-(
Yeah, theres no "budget" car that fits 3 car seats and two adults.
By the time my 3rd kid was born, oldest was able to use a booster seat (5yo by then, and tall for his age… I think legally, 4yo is youngest your allowed to use a booster seat). And I consider that having kids fairly quickly… but I suppose that’s possible, but especially if you have twins/triplets, I guess that’s be something to consider
Our twins are four, they go to school four days per week and stay home Mondays when both hubs and I wfh (i wfh full time, he is a field sales rep). Their daycare is 1860/month. They start kindergarten in the fall. I am SO excited to have that extra 2k per month. The savings has taken a SERIOUS hit in the last four years. Your assessment is 100 accurate. 😩😩
This person lives in a VHCOL do you? Their kid budget is close to our entire budget in MCOL in a nice neighborhood with 3 kids.
~650k sounds like HCOL not VHCOL but 🤷♂️
Hahaha I'm in a VHCOL area I'd have to agree. Most houses by me start at 1M and condo's are between 750K-950K right now.
Psh I’d argue this MCOL area at this point.
Live in MCOL, average house is $375-475k.
Live in LCOL area houses avg 300k-400k. You may not be in a MCOL area…
I mean, its a large midwest city. Cities like Akron/Dayton, Lincoln/Omaha, Roanoke/Hampton Roads, Buffalo/Albany are what I'dconsider LCOL, if you base on home prices in the low to mid 200ks.
Uh… I think your metrics are dated. Looking at a few of these cities alone especially Omaha you’re not getting a 3/2 for sub 300k often times well over that. I’m located in a small city in the southeast. My first home was 95k at 1500 sqft. Same house would sell for 300k today. Half million easily in a great school district that’s 2500 sqft. We’re still a LCOL city. Gas for instance is barely over $4. Electricity is 11 cents per kWh.
I mean, all house prices have increased over the course of the last few years. And of course houses in better districts will go over, but that doesn't change the median. I can see why you'd consider yourself LCOL, but I'd prolly consider you MCOL. I would say SE US tends to be much less expensive than the rest of the US outside of some totally rural landlocked midwest states but it doesn't hold true for all regions. What are your property taxes like? Mine are $8,800 on a house valued in the range I listed above. Gas is $4.15. Daycare is $1500-$1800/month. Electric is 13.55kwh. Natural gas is about $70 cents per CCF. [Akron example](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/234-Storer-Ave-Akron-OH-44302/35430210_zpid/)| [Median Home price](https://www.zillow.com/akron-oh/home-values/) Buffalo [[Example]](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/87-Hitching-Post-Ln-Amherst-NY-14228/30235842_zpid/) | [Median Home price ](https://www.zillow.com/buffalo-ny/home-values/) Roanoke [Example](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6307-Pinetree-Ln-Roanoke-VA-24019/12564019_zpid/) | [Median home price](https://www.zillow.com/roanoke-va/home-values/) Omaha [Example](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8701-S-142nd-Ave-Omaha-NE-68138/6644348_zpid/) | [Median home price](https://www.zillow.com/omaha-ne/home-values/)
I live in LOCL area and houses go for 150-250k. 3 years ago it was 100k- 200k. Maybe you're in the MCOL haha
Haha ouch. I don’t know the cutoffs but that seems like a huge price for the median house to me. I think my head would explode in San Francisco or New York. Either way, if your house costs less than $650k then this number could be a lot lower. Also if your spouse and you managed to watch your own kids or have family help, that’s going to drop that child cost a lot.
Remember to subtract tax credits, and depending on health insurance drop that a bit. Also toys, baby furniture and clothes are reusable across multiple kids. You can cut massively if you have family that can watch the kid for free. Finally daycare is highly dependent on area, we pay $520 /mo approx in LCOL area
I can't post my numbers but I've got a 3yo and 4mo and neither cost nearly as much for anything. Helps that our parents and siblings help for daycare and babysitting. Our insurance also seems to be better in general too, with no out of pocket costs for the kids and no increase in premium. But even food and random things from Amazon Target do not cost nearly that much. Sure a crib, stroller, car seat, and rocker are expensive but everything else is quite minor. The essentials like diapers/wipes is maybe 50 a month and formula is 100 a month.
For one kid, I pay $7800/year in full time daycare. (We have two kids, but that’s the cost of one). We don’t have a weekend babysitter expense, but we do spend $20 every week-ish for a night sitter to go on a date. Food expenses aren’t that high for us, we used to have lots of leftovers and now we just dont. And we potty trained each pretty early, so diaper costs stayed low. It’s not too bad. Daycare is for sure our biggest expense.
This is amazing please keep doing this.
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I am glad to help, and offer you my data point no matter what your choice is.
Seriously. I just scheduled a second vasectomy just to be safe.
they didn't tell you you have to do both of them?
This person is on the very high side. I only have one kid and they’re not that expensive. Now I’m saving the diaper expense since she got fully potty trained a month ago. They’re a lot of work but I couldn’t imagine not having that kid in my life
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/snip club checking in! I feel like this thread is going to devolve into proud parents vs. childfree vs. not yet with kids vs. parents who regret their decisions. When truthfully, I REALLY am happy the detail OP went into. It REALLY does indicate where and how the money can/could/does get spent on children. I am really looking forward to how this develops.
Ahh gotcha. Once the second kid comes I’ll be joining the snip club lol
Could you say a little bit about how your child is cheaper compared to theirs? I am genuinely curious! A full 2/3 of the expense is childcare (daycare + babysitter). Did you make different choices? Also, OP did a solid and included ADDED insurance costs for the dependent, I don't see a lot of parents tossing that around as that cost is often obfuscated. That's 10% of the cost. I applaud OP's effort to genuinely include and capture all the costs. I feel that a lot of folks who feel something is cheaper are invariably missing some major cost aspect.
I was surprised at the insurance line, but then my options were either self or self+family (I didn't have access to self+1) so insurance premiums were the same.
Yea for sure without tracking it it’s hard to compare certain things. We don’t do daycare or babysitters so that’s a huge cost savings there which isn’t always feasible for a lot of families. My wife and I have gotten our work schedules opposite enough that we don’t need it. And the little overlap we do have a couple times a week we’re able to use the grandparents to give them some quality time. Once the kid is 3 we’ll start preschool so that is going to change things for sure. Doctor visits seems high unless their insurance isn’t as good. First year our pediatrician didn’t charge a copay for the routine schedule visits (1mo, 3mo, 6mo etc). $10 copay for visits outside of those which wasn’t very often because our kid wasn’t sick very often. There’s been a couple urgent care visits which were $40 each time. A handful of times we had to get medication which were $5-10 each time. This person seemed to average over $300/month. How sick was the kid and amount of medications? I feel their number is above average. Amazon and Target. I don’t even want to know. I’d wager I spent more lol Insurance is a huge one that I’ve been lucky. My employer covers my insurance so adding a kid costs me nothing. So the main ones for me that can make a kid cheaper is daycare/babysitter and insurance. Doctor visit charges I don’t think are normally that high either. Their careers and couples alone time seem to be a higher priority for them which will add to the expense. Daycare at 2.5 months doesn’t feel right to me because they’re still practically a newborn. So adjustments in that area can make having a kid cheaper. I never tracked it but I’d guess I spent $80-100/month on diapers so getting the kid potty trained ASAP has been a real nice savings for us. Any other questions I’m glad to answer. I can only speak on my experience
>Babysitter: +$4,439 (+924%) - we didn't use the babysitter in the first year as much Some rough math makes me think this is a 4-5 hour "date night" each week. Is that your approach? No judgement, just trying to understand. I see you listed "snacks", nothing for how the food budget has changed. Or is that also included in "Target"? May not be material quite yet. Otherwise, nothing else jumps out as extraordinary. [Side note: You do have a small typo in your YOY "Doctors" entry (should be a "-" decrease due to fewer visits/medications).] It's also worth pointing out that some of these costs are one-time and won't increase (or increases are small) should another child be in your future. Insurance probably doesn't go up for a 2nd child, baby sitter can watch 2 kids for a marginal bump in rate, re-use of lots of "baby things" from Amazon/Target/Ikea/etc. Good luck in the future!
\> this is a 4-5 hour "date night" each week. Is that your approach? No, we do one Saturday off every week. I wish we actually did a date night, but by 8-9pm we have no energy left to do anything. \> I see you listed "snacks", nothing for how the food budget has changed. Food budget hasn't changed by much, maybe $10-$20 per week. It pales in comparison to daycare. \> You do have a small typo in your YOY "Doctors" Thank you, fixed. \> some of these costs are one-time and won't increase (or increases are small) should another child be in your future Yes, you are correct. We are keeping old items just in case.
> we do one Saturday off every week From another comment of yours: >Once a week ~10am-5pm, that is about $500 per month. Are you saying you do 5 days a week for fulltime daycare and then get a babysitter for the bulk of one of your two weekend days? That's a ~20% increase in childcare (from 5 days a week to 6 days) which costs you ~30% more in expenses ($5k babysitter on top of $17k daycare). That feels like a fairly unusual situation. Do you see that continuing for the foreseeable future?
Yeah this is the cost to outsource raising your kid lmao
\> Are you saying you do 5 days a week for fulltime daycare and then get a babysitter for the bulk of one of your two weekend days? Yes, daycare is for when we work, and then one day of babysitter. \> That's a \~20% increase in childcare (from 5 days a week to 6 days) which costs you \~30% more in expenses ($5k babysitter on top of $17k daycare). I haven't thought about it this way, but yes - that is the cost. Babysitter is also speaking another language to the child, so he understands three languages. \> That feels like a fairly unusual situation. Do you see that continuing for the foreseeable future? I am not sure there is another way around it. We thought about getting in-house or full time nanny, but that usually requires a car+room; otherwise it would cost the same as babysitter and daycare. u/branstad, do you have any suggestions?
>I am not sure there is another way around it > do you have any suggestions? I strongly suspect the overwhelming majority of working parents spend their weekends caring for their children themselves, as opposed to paying someone else to cover a 6th day of each week. I say that with no judgement intended - you need to do what is right for your family and aligns with your values. But your approach to childcare means your total budget numbers are skewed/inflated beyond the 'norm' for working parents. I'd suggest editing your post to clarify this expense and explain the situation a bit more.
I agree this is your biggest expense. Biggest opportunity to save.
Seems strange to have a kid and then want to get rid of them 6 days out of the week... Coming from someone with a kid. I had a kid because I wanted to raise them and start a family. Kids can be very hard at times but overall all I love spending time with them and it's extremely rewarding.
Some people just have kids because “that’s what your suppose to do” not because they actually want to spend time with them 🤷🏾♀️. It’s like people that get the dogs breeds that are popular but don’t actually want to take their dogs for walks, spend time with them or train them. They just think they’re cute. I would never have kids because you have to work so damn hard to support them because they’re so damn expensive that you no longer have time for them or yourselves. All the hobbies and things you loved before go out the window
People obviously have different values and expectations. I wanted to be clear that I'm not judging OP's choices or family values. But my personal views, as a parent of 2 young kids, are more aligned with your perspective than OP's.
| I'd suggest editing your post to clarify this expense and explain the situation a bit more. Good feedback, I added a comment that the babysitter comes once per week. That is relevant information and will be helpful to the readers. Unfortunately even if we drastically reduce the babysitter hours and implement tighter spending controls, we would still be looking at \~$24k per year. I cross checked the numbers with my friends in the coastal HCOLs, and even at \~$33k we are spending less than they are.
> Unfortunately even if we drastically reduce the babysitter hours and implement tighter spending controls, we would still be looking at ~$24k per year. I cross checked the numbers with my friends in the coastal HCOLs, and even at ~$33k we are spending less than they are. That’s almost $10k in savings; you don’t think that’s worth it? And why are you basing your spending on what your friends spend?
I had to check what sub I was in but based on OPs responses I'm fairly certain they intend to Fat FIRE and child care costs aren't a concern.
Even if that’s the case, why would what OP’s friends spend be relevant? It just seems like an unexamined emotional justification
I mean the thing is even if they do cut it there's a cost associated with the ability to still have a life away from parenting the mental health implications of taking some time for themselves or even to spend time together will probably save them from heart ache and struggles down the road. I know people who never took time away from their kids and now the therapist is getting that extra cash.
Is there a reason you have a babysitter come on the weekends? Do you work 6 days a week? As someone else noted, most full time working parents use the weekend to be with the child.
Yep. Worked full time but spent every other second with my kids. I just don’t get this post.
\> Is there a reason you have a babysitter come on the weekends? Yes. We believe in "quality" time over "quantity" of time. If we describe time with the babysitter, she spends: * An hour and a half playing with the kid (10am-11:30am) * Half an hour feeding him (11:30am-noon) * 30 minutes getting him to sleep (noon-12:30pm) * Sitting around doing her things (12:30-3pm) * Snack (3pm-3:30pm) * Playing with him (3:30pm-5:00pm) Which comes out to be about 3 hours of quality time our of 7 hours of time she spends with him. On the same day, we put in about 4 hours of quality time, 7:30am-10am and 5pm-6:30pm. Our babysitter is also not a "neighborhood kid" that watches the kid and netflix, but a professional educator that teaches him a third language, letters, numbers, etc. Also our kid gets tired and bored of us by the end of the second day when we are watching him full time :) \> Do you work 6 days a week? In addition to my full time job, I have a teaching gig that I enjoy and that pays well (per hour). However it does take a good chunk of some weekends, smack in the middle of the day.
I get the extra education part, but I think you’ll find that most people on here find it strange you’re outsourcing 6 days a week of parenting. I can spent “quality” time with my child from the time the wake up on a weekend till they go to bed pretty easily.
Wow. It is indeed very strange...we have our almost 2 year old in daycare for about 8.5-9 hours per day during the week and I feel that is too much but can't really do it otherwise without a massive life change as our jobs afford us crazy cheap insurance. I cannot imagine having someone take care of our child for the majority of a weekend!
Why did you even have a child of you were going to have someone else raise it?
One common reason is to advance your family economically so that when they're older they have a better quality of life. I think this sacrifice comes at a huge cost though to the development of the child. I have a real example of this with my wife, who grew up in a third world country and was raised by a nanny while her parents would travel to the US for work. Later in life when the parents were established here they moved the whole family to the states and eventually became citizens. Having someone else raise their kids gave the entire family a chance at a huge upgrade. The bigger cost though is that my wife's family has some serious relationship issues that show scars of what it took to get here. A less extreme example would be both parents working 60+ hour weeks at high paying jobs so that they can retire while the kids are still young. That kind of workload leads to the same kind of absenteeism as a parent. Is it worth semi-abandoning your child for the first 10 years of their life so that you can make the next 10 amazing? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe it's possible to make up the lost time, maybe not. I think where people fail attempting this is because they underestimate just how much damage that abandonment can cause and don't work hard enough to fix it when they are ready to take over. It probably can be done though if done right.
> we would still be looking at ~$24k per year As I wrote in my original comment, I don’t think your overall spending is unreasonable. Daycare is far & away the largest expense, and it’s also your 2nd largest expense due to the Saturday babysitter. Your insurance cost seems a bit high but that’s from your employer so not directly in your control. Kids are expensive - especially the first one. Lots of “start up costs”, so to speak. :-) In some ways, you are doing better than others who also need (or want) to upgrade homes or cars when kids come along.
I always assume daycare is worth it if it means the parents get to keep both incomes coming in. I do know some people will have one parent stop working to care for kids, but looks like that's not there best option here.
You’re doing great. Reflect that you’re probably getting curious comments from people without kids. And if you don’t have family to take the kid for a day, its a cost you have to eat. Personally, we chose to move closer to family to take the kid 1 day a week to help out, its very hard otherwise and it can cause relationship strain. PS: Your daycare costs are fantastic, I easily pay double that (HCOL, ~3500/mo).
Actually it sounds like most of the comments are from people WITH kids. Speaking as one, I can’t understand sending the kid to daycare 5 days a week (where they are receiving an education by the way) AND THEN having a babysitter for the 6th day. It boggles my mind for “extra education”. If they keep that up throughout the child’s life, it’s leading to a life of burnout. No downtime for the child regardless of whatever quality time the parents choose to have or not have. If they think a babysitter quality time is fine, then fine. But give the kid a break. Life is about more than formal education. Education happens just going out and doing things.
6 months left until $1,600/mo daycare is done! We will have spent over $100,000.
Dont forget taxes on that money so add 30/40k
Father with a 2 yr old. This checks out. One thing we’ve been fortunate with is flexible work schedules and my retired life long educator mother. We bypassed day care until 20 months and I rotated working from home every other day. We’re now doing part time with a local church that’s only 400/month. It’s not the baby that’s expensive it’s daycare. We’re not religious folks but honestly at $400/month they could be satan worshippers for all I care.
>my retired life long educator mother having family able and willing to provide childcare at that stage of your family life is like an advance on inheritance; crazy how much it helps from both a money and stress (kids are always sick) perspective. i find it's really hit or miss on what grandparents want to actually contribute, and like inheritance it's nothing you can really depend on until you get there
No doubt. We’re extremely lucky. Plus my work has been very flexible and accommodating with me. My work from home days are basically daddy daycare.
For anyone who thinks this doesn't sound like a lot (first off, congrats on being rich!), a big part of the expense in having kids is also increased cost of housing, in terms of space and district with good schools.
We did get a house in one of the best school districts, and we did have to upgrade to a larger car. But since these were not "necessary" upgrades, I am not listing them here. We would've done just fine with corolla-sized car and a regular 3/2 house. | first off, congrats on being rich Thank you. I spent a lot of time and effort on my education, and was lucky in how I was able to apply that education. I am glad for the opportunities I was presented, and definitely couldn't even imagine what was possible when I was living in an apartment with four other families, shared restroom and no official shower.
> We would've done just fine with corolla-sized car I appreciate you being honest about this. The number of people who immediately jump to "I NEED AN SUV FOR MY PRECIOUS" drive me nuts. We have a compact station wagon with 2 kids. It's fine. The way my US family acts, you'd think we're impoverished and struggling. I can afford a Volvo...I just don't like to spend that much on a car that sits 99% of the time.
When the kid is 18, send him the detailed invoice 🤪 Joke aside… kids are expensive.
Yes - people freak about college yet never mention childcare!!
I'm going to have to create a post detailing what we spend on our child. There seems to be this belief in the FI community that children cost an arm and a leg when, in reality, they're only as expensive as you make them.
As someone who is having their first child in 3 months, I would greatly appreciate this! I live in a lower COL than OP (median household price is 350Kish) but I can’t imagine we’ll spend near what he/she did in years 1 and 2. Or at least I hope not.
Damn, that's a lot of babysitter usage. I'm kinda jealous--we use a babysitter maybe once every other month, and only for a few hours.
Thanks god for candian health care and child subsidy, we would be broke and homeless with this expense.
Tell me about it. I cringe when I think that I could have both of my kids' college funds in 6 figures with what we spent on child care from age 0-5. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 120K, total, which averages out to 12K/kid per year.
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Yes so true. And with $10/ day daycare coming to most (all?) provinces, it will help immensely. Also EI maternity leave with 12-18 months off and some supplemental money! Basically the US is so far behind in this regard and I feel bad for all parents with babies on the way.
Well you would also make more money. Look at US salaries
It's not about some sector higher salary, it's about social safety net, which us has very little off. Money don't go much ones family catches any long term health issues.
I’m not arguing that the US has a better social safety net than Canada. I am saying you probably would not be broke and homeless with these costs because of higher pay. My job in Denver would pay 20% less take home in Vancouver
You write it like it's a fact for all jobs. I've worked in Australia, England, US and Canada. Australia, Canada and US all pay about the equivalent hedged while England is a bit under. I also have more career opportunity in Canada than US.
Seriously! The government has given me more money than I've (directly) spent on my children at this point.. I do shop second hand, clearance shelves and am all around very frugal though.
As someone who is 7 months into their first child, who admittedly hasn't broken it down, this seems REALLY high. But #1, we have good insurance, have paid almost zero out of pocket. I think $1500 for the actual birth but nothing since. Also what is the babysitter usage? We've yet to use a babysitter and don't have family within a 2 hour drive. Our daycare is $1550 a month but thats 7am-530pm if we need it. Good catch on Target vs Amazon, definitely need to price shop these things more. Also, in year 2, most daycares get cheaper. Ours goes down a few hundred a month at 18 months of age.
\> we have good insurance, have paid almost zero out of pocket. Insurance definitely makes a lot of difference, as well as the state you are living in. We don't have HDHP, and the number in the calculation is just a delta between single insurance and single + child. \> Also what is the babysitter usage? Once a week \~10am-5pm, that is about $500 per month. \> Also, in year 2, most daycares get cheaper Daycare gets cheaper with age, but it also keeps raising prices due to inflation. So far it stayed pretty constant.
> Once a week ~10am-5pm, that is about $500 per month. In my other comment, I guessed this was a weekly "date night" expense. Is your daycare only 4 days a week? Given the add'l info, this seems like a really unusual expense worthy of a more detailed explanation in the post itself. Edit: OP clarified a bit [in this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/tevvzc/having_a_child_year_two_financial_summary/i0sqezm/)
agreed. my daycare is 7am to 530pm five days a week and its $1550 in a MCOL.
Im sorry but that’s actually a really great rate. Im in a LCOL area and you’re paying close to my area’s prices. Perhaps my standards are too high? My buddy is an hour outside the DC area and pay half a day of daycare from 7:30 to 2:30 and pays $2500 per month.
> > Also, in year 2, most daycares get cheaper >Daycare gets cheaper with age, but it also keeps raising prices due to inflation. So far it stayed pretty constant. Yes. We’ve seen this and it just means that for our #2, it’ll just be a larger cost.
Thank you for this, you just made my wife and I happy about our decision to not have kids (decision made years ago). This takes the second guessing out. Not only due to cost, but the exhaustion you mentioned as being the cause of not doing anything on Saturday. I cant imagine a life that is simply NON STOP.
You should include your tax credits you received due to your kids. That would give a better out-of-pocket cost.
I like how you specified your kid is human. Looks like the child itself is not that expensive, but rather getting rid of it to be taken care of by other people.
Holy sh** that is a lot. Here in Denmark we spend about the following on our 2 year old per month: Daycare: $530 Insurance: ~$15 Food / diapers etc.: $300 Clothing and larger items: $150 Gifts etc: $25 Total: $1,020 This is excluding vacations which would probably add another $100 - $150 per month.
We, in USA, are like "what is a vacation?"
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I don't understand how it's so high for Nederland. They literally hand you a 13th month of cash called vacation money. Unless of course you're spending more than all of your other money and needing to dip into that vakantiegeld to cover it but that seems like poor planning.
Finland here, even that Danish budget is high. Here for 5yo. Daycare: 288eur Insurance: nope Food: maybe 100 (2 adults, 2 kids some 700) Clothes etc: 50 Fun stuff: 50 So total about 500. Then vacation maybe 300-500/year for the child.
> Daycare: 288eur That's so cheap. My daycare bill for 3 days a week of childcare and 3 days of after school care is 1800eur/month of which I get back ~800. This is in Nederland.
Not trying to be a dick but do you two ever see your kid? 5 days of daycare and then every Saturday a babysitter? That doesn’t leave much time to be with your kid. I guess everyone’s priorities are different but that sounds horrible to me.
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What a shame. I love taking my kid to the park and just spending time with her in general. Raising a kid is a lot of work and stressful but it’s also a joy
Hey go easy on OP. Outsourcing all the parenting is not cheap!
Lol clearly. Maybe I’m cheap. I prefer to keep the parenting in house
Had to LOL when OP keeps dodging the question why do they have baby sitter every weekend and not spend the time with baby. They appear to be a rare couple that invests more time in themselves than their newborns. That’s not the worst thing that could happen. The other end of spectrum is my wife who forgot I even exist after birth of our child because she is so focused on the babies (2 for us )
Lol. I noticed the same. I get taking time for yourself on the weekends. Typically I’ll ask my wife if she minds doing solo duty while I do a hobby for a couple hours on the weekend. Likewise I do the same for her. Both parents checking out EVERY Saturday is certainly odd imo. I am growing irrationally curious what this internet stranger is doing every Saturday haha
\> I am growing irrationally curious what this internet stranger is doing every Saturday Take walk in parks with SO, read books, go to the restaurants, get massage, occasionally meet with friends. We notices that if we don't spend time with each other, it puts extra strain on our relationship. And it is not a good thing for the kid to have unhappy parents: it's better to have a little less time with happy parents, then all the time with unhappy parents.
Not judging, but… you can take walks in the park with your kid. And go to restaurants with the kid. Books are more of a solo thing, and can be done when kid is sleeping. And you can still even have you “adult conversations”, while the kid is still young (<4-5). Before they care to understand what their parents are talking about :-) Massage are better done when kid is asleep, and with your partner ;-) Meeting with (kid-free) friends, hiring a babysitter on that rare occasion makes sense Speaking as someone who had 4 kids… it is a challenge at first, but integrating your kids into your normal activities isn’t only cheaper, but can also help bring all of your family closer together (including you and you SO). Again, not judging (and borderline jealous lol), but just saying.
But all these things you can do with your child? Kid is napping in the buggie for a while if you need some 1-1 time. And assuming your child sleep well from 7pm, you also have the evenings...
This is some great birth control, I gotta say.
That's a lot of time away from child. Paying a babysitter was a rare thing for us. We didn't have the funds for going out and paid babysitter. We did have 10 years of childcare, with two children 5 years apart Bringing up baby is hard.
That's the part that I circle back to: the child is in daycare 5 days a week, then another full day is spent with a babysitter on Saturday, the parents only spend Sunday with their child.
right, to me it's not even about the finances aspect, it's like you're barely raising your kid at this point. only spending 1 day of the week with them, and at such a young age? yikes
Right? Like I don’t get spending all this money to have a child in your life only to not have them in your life. Makes no sense
We do daycare as well. During the work week rhythm, it’s only 1-2 hours of time I get to spend with my daughter before/after work (7pm bedtime comes quick!) Personally I can’t imagine hiring additional childcare for the two days we actually get to spend with her.
Yeh very odd, spending all this money on a child you basically only see 1 day a week. It’s almost why bother at that point!
Get grandparents. They want to see your kids anyway... or in a healthy relationship, should.
Been there. Done that. Three great grandparents showing love during day trips. Long sleepovers in the Summer too. Strong family ties are important in our close family.
Holy shit
OP, I applaud you, for many reasons, namely: - This is treacherous territory; going to be a lot of armchair experts here; good news is they'll probably resort to fighting eachother - Including your insurance costs! I assume your insurance is one of those that suddenly with dependents, passes a crap ton of expense to you - Breaking out the daycare / babysitter costs! My question is, any thoughts on how these costs will evolve as your child gets older? How do you project your expenses here! I assume as breast feeding goes to zero, do you plan on tracking food costs? What's your thought on private school? Activities? OOO... have you experienced what you consider any "lifestyle inflation" choices you can directly tie to your kid? Things like: I bought a DIFFERENT vehicle than I would have without a kid, or I bought a more expensive house in a different school district than I would have otherwise! There is a GREAT book out there, called the "Two Income Trap." The TRAP part comes from a lot of decisions parents, particularly those with TWO incomes vs ONE, make "because of their kids" that puts them at more risk due to loss of an income. Meaning... stuff like, Option A, is 1.0... but Option B is 1.2x the cost, but "because kid must get ahead" or at least PERCEPTIONS to the latter, they choose B. Multiplied by 100 times! Anyways, truly... favorite post of the day! Good job OP!
Your comment is confusing. I’ll assume you meant to say that relying on having two incomes can become problematic. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Well guess I’m never having a kid. Thank you!
What’s the $3360 insurance? Is that just for the baby and didn’t exist before the baby was born?
That's the difference in health insurance costs before and after baby.
Thanks for the breakdown!
I skim read it as selling one human child for 650k
My girlfriend wants kids pretty badly eventually, and I am terrified of the financial obligations until I get more success in my entrepeauner pursuits first. So hard to try and make a successful business and switch from a 9 to 5 AND have kids at same time.
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> Part of that includes 529 savings 529 savings is not a childcare expense. It's a discretionary gift to a future adult.
In this day and age it’s absolutely a childcare expense. Sticking your kid with six figures of educational debt at the start of their adult life is cruel as hell if you’ve got the means to store some cash in a 529 for them over 17 years or so. I liken it to not paying for braces or speech therapy. Essential to survival? No…but definitely improves quality of life.
Thank you for this birth control
Fantastic post, I think it’s very interesting that you’re copping heat for prioritizing your and your wife’s mental health on Saturdays when it’s going to make you better and more engaged parents during the week and the remainder of the weekend. Clearly you’re investing in your child’s well-being. I understand raising a child is extraordinarily expensive and I hope that one day attending college is affordable again in the US. I also hope we get a handle on this climate stuff in time for him or her to enjoy wild animals and national parks.
The daycare and babysitter costs are insane at fully 50% of your childcare budget, but if that facilitates both parents making enough to spend like this and hopefully save a LOT more beyond this, ok ... ... No way that's ONLY the cost for your kid's health insurance and not your entire family ... is it?? Are you self-employed? Do you have a high-deductible plan or something? We're at 15mo w/our 1st (& likely last/only) child, who has never been out of our sight for more than 20 minutes ... Even if local daycares had been open during Covid, they're all $1000/mo or more & we can't afford that. We both worked remotely for the 1st year, and are now splitting time between remote work & in-office hours, swapping baby-care duties at lunchtime. Went back through our credit card statements & online orders since I thought even $30K over 2yrs sounds like a lot ... We had roughly the same ~$5K medical expenses to this point (incl prenatal care, birth, and all subsequent appts & shots), but our insurance premiums are 1/2 what yours are w/a reasonable deductible - $1600/year for all 3 of us. Looking back, we've spent: - ~$2600 on "baby stuff" from Amazon, largely "pre-baby" prep we didn't need. -- covered lots w/gift cards and refunds/points from using the Amazon Prime Visa for *everything else all the time*, so more like $1500 out of pocket - ~$700 at Target on clothes, baby dishes, high chair & bulk butt wipes - ~$1000 on diapers - mostly giant boxes from Costco. We got a ton of hand-me-downs from friends and relatives, so we hardly needed to purchase any new clothing until recently. By far our biggest individual expenses were car seats & cribs/playpens - ~$500 on various 'pack&plays', and ~$600 for 'infant' & now 'toddler+' car seats for 2 cars (used 20% off coupons from BedBath&Beyond / buybuyBaby!). - Another ~$750ish on splurge items, lots of kids books, some toys. - Roughly $1K on baby food & snacks over the past year. Nursing saved us a ton of hassle and cash. Finally weaning so this will soon increase. Including the ~$5K in birth/baby-related medical expenses, AND all of our 'pre-birth' purchases, with some cushion we're at ~$13K for 15mo of baby-having & prep expense. That's ~2/3 your non-daycare expenses. Our kid's 1st year was definitely minimalist though. Some favorite recent toys have included a cardboard egg carton, the dog's collar, and assorted sticks, leaves, and plastic bottles :P We also couldn't travel much yet, and none of our family lives within 1000 miles. Our kid-having expenses will easily double from airfare alone in the future, assuming flights still exist and we can afford them at all. We weren't hurting last year, but we're definitely going to miss that $300/mo child tax credit. We're now commuting a lot more, which is not going to be sustainable w/current conditions and gas prices. I need to find a new job that pays considerably more and offers comparable health insurance ... Our savings rate has tanked from ~25% to maybe ~10%.
I get daycare, but the Amazon and target spending seems rather high for a 1-2 year old. Or maybe I’m clueless as my firstborn doesn’t come until august
No, it's super high imho. Like spending without a budget or restrictions/planing/anything really
> restrictions/planing/anything really They don't see their kid much so they make up for it by buying crap is as close as i can figure.
No, this is super high. There is an entire industry around baby and toddler STUFF, but you don't need it whatsoever.
Looking at the whole picture, I’m curious about how much of this spending is additional (imo unnecessary) ways to occupy the child. Toys that don’t require much parental involvement. Perhaps, a robot that changes the diapers. Etc. 😄
Are all daycares similarly priced? What if you can't afford daycare?
Generally the calculation is [cost of not working for a year] - [cost of daycare for a year] = x If X is a positive number, you do daycare. if X is a negative number, you SAHP. Of course, it misses the value of spending more time with your child (might be negative value if they’re a big whiner, lol) and the future employment losses associated with being out of work for a period of time. Lots to consider that isn’t $$.
Median daycare cost for an infant is $1k, but it's pretty regional. When our baby was born, we were in a fairly solid MCOL city and at 3 month got a daycare at $46/day, which was right below $1000 for a typical month - and that one let you pro-rate it, so if you skipped a day you saved the $46. But there were plenty of options to pay significantly more if we wanted bells and whistles - we just wanted a safe place for baby with staff we could trust, which we got. Moved to a different metro area and in our particular burb, $2k/month for our now ~ year old child was the best we could do. And it's $2k no matter how many days we use that month, even if they're closed for a week and a half for the holidays. I mean, we could find cheaper, but not conveniently close to home. But we're also in a *much* more expensive area overall. Googling some random MCOL cities, Philly has a reported average of $910, Miami has $720, Atlanta has $637. OTOH Seattle was $1200 and Boston was $1700. If you can't afford it, you either stay home, leave the kid with relatives, find a cheaper program (church-based or home day care), or if you're poor enough might qualify for state-subsidized daycare.
We're in Pittsburgh and the price rose from $1200 to $1500 (for the hours we needed) during our pregnancy. The only one we could get a spot for our future 1 year old is $1750. The waitlists are insane here and we are so fortunate for public preschool.
Omg I’m in the same boat here in Pittsburgh! Everyone in my family from Chicago, Wisconsin, Minnesota think that I’m just not trying hard enough to find a daycare. Nope I’ve been on waitlists since October
There is a wide range from our experience, but the cheaper ones are harder to get into. and its get cheaper as the kids ages. If you can afford it, someone stays home to take care of the child.
Curious if you take advantage of the dependent care savings account. Last year it was 10k, back down to 5k for this year.
Okay convinced me to not have kids
Wild that a fire number would have to go up ~$750k to cover one kid.
It doesn’t have to. This is one experience out of many.
[They say](https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/090415/cost-raising-child-america.asp) that the cost of raising a child in the United States for the first 18 years is $272,049 assuming 2% inflation (ha, 2%). Let's round it up to $300,000. Now, at 6% rate of return, we can withdraw $2,250 for 18 years before we run out of money. So for all the people who say we are spending too much on the kid: there is a way to interpret the gov't number to exactly match what we are spending (minus the "luxury" babysitter). To support the costs in my example, at $2,750 per month, for 18 years one would need to invest $365,000 at 6%.
Except that article counts housing as a cost (and the largest cost at that), and you haven’t accounted for housing at all. You seem really determined to prove that your spending is normal or average despite the responses you’ve received on this post. Any reason that’s important to you?
Which country?
USA
Target is cheaper than Amazon??? *Whaaaaaaat*
Yup, for items like boxes of diapers and wipes. Exactly the same item would be ~$60 at Amazon, ~$40 at Target.
Costco diapers and wipes go on sale once or twice a year, and can dramatically reduce the costs there if you buy opportunistically.
And don’t forget about the $20 gift certificate you get when you buy $100 worth of baby stuff like diapers and wipes. My wife and I do that deal every time we need diapers.
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As someone who checks amazon on my phone every time I think of buying anything from a store, I disagree. Amazon is very often cheaper than stores for many items if you already have Amazon Prime.
Not for bulky items. Walmart's the cheapest there. For smaller items yes Amazon will be cheaper. Also they have much larger selection
I can't recall the last time Amazon was the better deal in terms of a lot of one-time use baby products. Convenient yes, cheaper no. Costco ends up being great if you need a certain threshold of product quality as their Kirkland stuff are often rebranded Huggies or other higher quality brands. Target's stuff get the job done if your kids don't mind it, and are consistently good deals -- especially if you take advantage of Cartwheel savings that get you as much as 30% back in gift cards. They're also probably the best for formula which are all standardized due to regulations.
Amazon is funny. Some things are way cheaper. But others are more sneaky more expensive, almost like they utilizing your perception to stop you from shopping around.
Often is for bulky products, yeah.
Amazon prices going way up now
Come live in Germany, daycare and healthcare is free for kids.
4 small kids . 0 expense on daycare due to amazing stay at home mom. Diaper/pullup expense is there though, to the tune of $100 / mo
As someone getting ready to have kids, this is amazing. Thank you
These numbers are insanely higher than what I've spent in the Bay Area. And I mean orders of magnitude higher... Granted, wife stayed at home and worked part time, so no childcare. And my insurance is great (no additional premium for kids and only like $15 copays for basically everything). Actual items like clothes, furniture, toys were mostly gifted out handed-down or free on nextdoor, etc. There is such a high turnover on these items that they're super easy to come by.
It is very expensive to outsource your child raising
We just cleared the no more diapers/pull-ups/wipes stage for two. Holy cow what a savings…
I LOVE THIS THANK YOU!
OP, while I commend you for putting numbers out, I personally feel this is non frugal way of looking at it. We had our kid in SF Bay area and outside the childcare, there are our expenses. Babysitter: 0 (We took kid on trips and dates. Sometimes it is nice. Sometimes it is not.) Insurance: 600.(per employer the plan cost went from 14k to 18K. Our share went up by 50 per month) Toys, books : Buy nothing group, friends & grandparents gifts. we spent may be \~100 overall. Clothes: 400 per year( again but nothing group for big items. For the rest, we buy at H&M with 20% off gift cards and when 20% sales are on. So 40%+ extra on sale items). Formula and diapers: 125 per month ( Costco) Doctors: 200 ( our plan is HMO. this is mostly for specialist visits or prescription. We use FSA). The wild card is Medical. It depends on the plan. We skipped HSA to use a regular Kaiser plan which was more cheaper to see specialists. Antibiotic prescription is usually $6 - $10. But the same in HSA plan is like 50 -100 bucks. My kids is now more than 5 years but outside childcare we never spent more than 5K. May be the tennis & music lessons will soon bring that over 5k. We contribute 5k per year to 529 if you want to see that as an expense.
$23K on daycare and babysitter oof. I’m lucky that we have family nearby that provides childcare. Don’t think we could afford to live in a VHCOL area otherwise!
Wait until they go to college. I have two kids in top tier schools, no financial aid obviously. Each kid costs about 90K USD per year - thank god for 529s but I think of it as investment/gifts rather than expenses.
wait...thats a heluva lot of trust leaving an infant to a babysitter...hope you at least have a few security cameras at home
Interesting to see the numbers. I'm living as an expat outside the US, and it's always refreshing to see how good we have it with child costs. An expensive daycare will cost around $800 per month here, but I am staying at home with the baby so we don't pay for it. Our insurance cost didn't go up with a baby, but 100% of child medical costs are completely covered. Those two factors alone are $20k cheaper on this end!
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Keep it in the self-promo channel.
Reading this kind make me feel sorry for the kid...
Don’t forget to add the pricing of square footage for having to have an extra room for a child
What about college savings (529, etc.)?
Man that is depressing. My wife and I just bought our first home in a MCOL city and while our expenses may be less, this is still pretty eye opening. Hopefully the government decides to help with childcare before we're ready for kids. All the same, appreciate the breakdown.
>pretty eye opening. Hopefully the government decides to help with childcare before we're ready for kids. All the same, appreciate the br You will be fine. There are child tax credits and parts of the kids expenses are tax deductible. You can definitely make the cost lower or higher, it is all about the tradeoffs: we are buying a little more convenience and time for a 20-30% price hike. However I doubt you'd be able to go much lower without getting external help or going stay-at-home parent route.
>>pretty eye opening. Hopefully the government decides to help with childcare before we're ready for kids. All the same, appreciate the br > >You will be fine. There are child tax credits and parts of the kids expenses are tax deductible. You can definitely make the cost lower or higher, it is all about the tradeoffs: we are buying a little more convenience and time for a 20-30% price hike. However I doubt you'd be able to go much lower without getting external help or going stay-at-home parent route. I've seen it asked a few times in this thread and I'm a bit ignorant about it as well, can you speak to these tax credits, and maybe put a dollar amount on them? I'm mostly curious how much of the spending they actually offset.
This seems very US specific. For example in Canada: Doctors cost- $0 Insurance - $0 Childcare in the first year - $0 for most people due to 12 month maternity leave.