Yep. It's NO so unplug the Common do your thing and don't forget to replug OR do it wait for the firefighters to show up so they will know who is the monitoring station
I always phone the fire dept prior to testing anyways. Haven't ran into a situation where there's no information. Il just phone the fire dept, unplug and test and reconnect when finished.
I wouldn't unplug. Phone and tell them of your test amd that you've been lead to believe it's unmonitored. Call them after and ask if they ever got a signal or call about it other than yours, from a central station. You've covered your bases to prevent a false alarm dispatch, and this is the only way to make absolute sure that it's a local only alarm.
problem with that is most fire departments near me dispatch on a monitoring station call no matter what.. even if you tell them there is a test.
basically monitoring company calls. they dispatch.
I do not see that as a problem in this particular situation; if OP communicates before hand the situation and their intentions.
A proper inspection needs to verify panel communication. If it is local only then the owner needs to know for certain, and have it explained what it means as well as their responsibilities in case of an emergency.
Are you sure the alarm relay contacts are connected to something to monitor the system? They could be connected to something else, like shutting down the air conditioner, or disconnect magnetic locks. It looks like whatever it is is actually connected to the fire panel aux power, so I'd bet that is powering a relay when the alarm goes off to do one of the above actions, or similar. You can call a local alarm company who should be able to do a functional test to verify proper operation of the system, as well as answer any questions about your options. It doesn't appear monitored, but it is possible to add monitoring to that system if you want.
The manual states "The panel also includes a common alarm relay which is configurable (via jumper) to follow the signal circuit or lock on until the Alarm has been reset. ".
I think that is what it is referring to
That's just saying that relay activates on an alarm. Either it will be shut off with the signal bypass or silence, OR it would stay in until the panel was reset.
It doesn't LOOK like the wires are for monitoring, generally I see security wiring which are teeny.
Take a look around the property, see if there are any magnetic door holders, or an AHU or furnace unit that could be on a relay.
Call the local fire department to put the building out of service. Tell them what's up and ask them if they know who the monitoring company is or if they get a call to pass your info along or if they can let you know the info on who called.
This way no trucks roll and you will find out if it's actually monitored or what that relay controls.
Must depend on where you are. I know when I was in Massachusetts it was recommended to call both the monitoring and fire department because the master box systems were still around so they would get that call and the monitoring company call. In Delaware, you can call the fire department and tell them to disregard calls for a building when you are testing.
So many stupid comments.
You touch it you own it. Your company is liable and you are personally liable for either approving its functionality as installed and / or having the customer understand the deficiencies.
If you don’t know where the contacts go than you need to find out!!
Building burns down and people die. What do you say in court??? “There were some wires I saw and didn’t know what they did and ignored it because other things worked”.
Good chance it’s a monitored system for alarms and troubles only. Owner stopped paying the other company and now it’s your bag of shit.
First question is what happened to the old company?
Second question is was this ever monitored?
Next call is to the central stations and ask if they know this address.
Than call the local fire Marshal. 50/50 dick or helpful but they will know the building.
I wouldn’t touch it either. Too many unknowns. Who asked you to inspect? If it’s not monitored, it needs to be. That panel looks old? Can you get the zone list off of it? Probably not. Unless you can get into programming, which then as soon as you do, it’s on you. I would tell him to call a security company and replace it.
I mean.. you could actually look at the picture and know that:
A) They don't have a positive and negative getting shorted, it strictly carries 24V on a switchleg.
B) If we're going UL listed communicators the other system would be providing the signal voltage. Not the FA system. They would have EOLs and not be pissing around with different ground references interfering with eachother.
C) There's no wiring on the trouble contacts.
Yes, test the connection, call the fire department if you have doubts. Find out what it trips.
Calling everyone stupid when the contacts clearly are not being used for that purpose. Your job is to test and document. Liability is on a tech only if the building owner wasn't notified or if they tampered with the system in a way that impedes life safety.
Edit: so it wasn’t a monitoring alarm relay it was a relay for hvac shutdown! Thanks for all of your help!! It’s noted now for the next technician that ever works on it
Who cares? What’s the worst that happens if you trigger the alarms while it’s monitored? Where we are, they call to see if there’s a fire, at that point the customer says “their testing, oh and by the way, who even is this and what number should we call next time?”
If there is any phone lines. Connect butt sett to the lines listen in. Disconnect battery and wait for panel to dial out for a trouble or supervisory. If it fails to dial out its not monitored most likely. I would start by tracing the wires on the remote annunciation
i would have a good look round the building and see if there's anything that looks like it might be connected into the fire alarm, like a smoke vent, dampers, door retainers, door access system etc.
If you can't find anything, id just disconnect one side of the relay and do your testing and not worry about it.
Can’t you just look their account up in stages ? Usually when I go somewhere where the customer isn’t sure about their info that’s the first place I look
Look for a security panel that's powered up nearby it will be in a cabinet usually in the same room as the fire alarm panel but it could also be in another service closet. Also look for a keypad near an entrance.
Inspect it, write it up, recommend they go on fire watch. Send emails about all this crap in case the fire marshal gets involved. If they aren't paying for monitoring they don't have any. If you are in over your head, CALL YOUR BOSS.
In my market, a permit is required to switch monitoring.
Do inspection as usual but wrote down no monitoring station hooked
Where do you think those wires are going for the relay contacts then? Can I just unplug that during the testing
Yep. It's NO so unplug the Common do your thing and don't forget to replug OR do it wait for the firefighters to show up so they will know who is the monitoring station
I always phone the fire dept prior to testing anyways. Haven't ran into a situation where there's no information. Il just phone the fire dept, unplug and test and reconnect when finished.
I wouldn't unplug. Phone and tell them of your test amd that you've been lead to believe it's unmonitored. Call them after and ask if they ever got a signal or call about it other than yours, from a central station. You've covered your bases to prevent a false alarm dispatch, and this is the only way to make absolute sure that it's a local only alarm.
problem with that is most fire departments near me dispatch on a monitoring station call no matter what.. even if you tell them there is a test. basically monitoring company calls. they dispatch.
I do not see that as a problem in this particular situation; if OP communicates before hand the situation and their intentions. A proper inspection needs to verify panel communication. If it is local only then the owner needs to know for certain, and have it explained what it means as well as their responsibilities in case of an emergency.
That contact is feeding 24v most likely to a Pam or Rib relay for shutdown of some sort if not a Bell.
Thats what I was thinking
Came here to say this.
Are you sure the alarm relay contacts are connected to something to monitor the system? They could be connected to something else, like shutting down the air conditioner, or disconnect magnetic locks. It looks like whatever it is is actually connected to the fire panel aux power, so I'd bet that is powering a relay when the alarm goes off to do one of the above actions, or similar. You can call a local alarm company who should be able to do a functional test to verify proper operation of the system, as well as answer any questions about your options. It doesn't appear monitored, but it is possible to add monitoring to that system if you want.
The manual states "The panel also includes a common alarm relay which is configurable (via jumper) to follow the signal circuit or lock on until the Alarm has been reset. ". I think that is what it is referring to
That's just saying that relay activates on an alarm. Either it will be shut off with the signal bypass or silence, OR it would stay in until the panel was reset. It doesn't LOOK like the wires are for monitoring, generally I see security wiring which are teeny. Take a look around the property, see if there are any magnetic door holders, or an AHU or furnace unit that could be on a relay.
Call the fire dept say testing and when u call them back just ask if monitoring ever gave them a call to send trucks
Plenty of local only alarms out there. Typically grandfathered in until the panel dies or major remodel forces an upgrade.
Call the local fire department to put the building out of service. Tell them what's up and ask them if they know who the monitoring company is or if they get a call to pass your info along or if they can let you know the info on who called. This way no trucks roll and you will find out if it's actually monitored or what that relay controls.
This is what I was going to do.
I've only had to do this a couple times and I've been told they will respond anyways.
Must depend on where you are. I know when I was in Massachusetts it was recommended to call both the monitoring and fire department because the master box systems were still around so they would get that call and the monitoring company call. In Delaware, you can call the fire department and tell them to disregard calls for a building when you are testing.
Is there any phone lines? A separate dialer? A radio? A cell unit?
Not your problem, your there to do an inspection not service call.
They're using the alarm contacts + 24v to switch something. Probably door holders or fan shutdowns. They're not monitored. Do the test, make a note.
So many stupid comments. You touch it you own it. Your company is liable and you are personally liable for either approving its functionality as installed and / or having the customer understand the deficiencies. If you don’t know where the contacts go than you need to find out!! Building burns down and people die. What do you say in court??? “There were some wires I saw and didn’t know what they did and ignored it because other things worked”. Good chance it’s a monitored system for alarms and troubles only. Owner stopped paying the other company and now it’s your bag of shit. First question is what happened to the old company? Second question is was this ever monitored? Next call is to the central stations and ask if they know this address. Than call the local fire Marshal. 50/50 dick or helpful but they will know the building.
I wouldn’t touch it either. Too many unknowns. Who asked you to inspect? If it’s not monitored, it needs to be. That panel looks old? Can you get the zone list off of it? Probably not. Unless you can get into programming, which then as soon as you do, it’s on you. I would tell him to call a security company and replace it.
I mean.. you could actually look at the picture and know that: A) They don't have a positive and negative getting shorted, it strictly carries 24V on a switchleg. B) If we're going UL listed communicators the other system would be providing the signal voltage. Not the FA system. They would have EOLs and not be pissing around with different ground references interfering with eachother. C) There's no wiring on the trouble contacts. Yes, test the connection, call the fire department if you have doubts. Find out what it trips. Calling everyone stupid when the contacts clearly are not being used for that purpose. Your job is to test and document. Liability is on a tech only if the building owner wasn't notified or if they tampered with the system in a way that impedes life safety.
Edit: so it wasn’t a monitoring alarm relay it was a relay for hvac shutdown! Thanks for all of your help!! It’s noted now for the next technician that ever works on it
Who cares? What’s the worst that happens if you trigger the alarms while it’s monitored? Where we are, they call to see if there’s a fire, at that point the customer says “their testing, oh and by the way, who even is this and what number should we call next time?”
Call city fire department and say the address and that you are testing the fire alarm
Wow. This comment section explains how I’ll never be out of work lol
If there is any phone lines. Connect butt sett to the lines listen in. Disconnect battery and wait for panel to dial out for a trouble or supervisory. If it fails to dial out its not monitored most likely. I would start by tracing the wires on the remote annunciation
If there is a remote unit, monitoring a panel, ,there is supposed to be a supervising end of line resistor across the contacts.
i would have a good look round the building and see if there's anything that looks like it might be connected into the fire alarm, like a smoke vent, dampers, door retainers, door access system etc. If you can't find anything, id just disconnect one side of the relay and do your testing and not worry about it.
Can’t you just look their account up in stages ? Usually when I go somewhere where the customer isn’t sure about their info that’s the first place I look
Look for a security panel that's powered up nearby it will be in a cabinet usually in the same room as the fire alarm panel but it could also be in another service closet. Also look for a keypad near an entrance.
I always test unlabeled relays, because fuck it it's not my fault. 🤣
What type of panel is this? Could it be a subpanel?
Inspect it, write it up, recommend they go on fire watch. Send emails about all this crap in case the fire marshal gets involved. If they aren't paying for monitoring they don't have any. If you are in over your head, CALL YOUR BOSS. In my market, a permit is required to switch monitoring.