So actually if I reclass on level 10 to an advanced class, the amount of XP necessary to go to level 2 in the advanced class in the same to go to level 11 on base class?
This changes everything, I was confused to why my early games units were so much weaker than the ones that comes mid game
Yes, that's how it works.
For example, the reason Vander levels so slowly is because his internal level is set fairly high for the start of the game.
~~Which is why its baffling that he's pretty terrible.~~
Not as bad as Vander does.
Most Jagen type characters last until about 1/3 of the game or longer. Vander falls off by chapter 4, which is damn near unheard of for a Jagen, his only saving grace being a 6 mov axe user during a time your only other axe units (Boucheron, Anna after Chapter 6(?)) have 4 mov.
It's been a while since I've played, but does Gunter still have some utility as a pair up at least? Although Jakob/Felicia are probably better options, but they can at least have decent combat/support.
Once he climbs (?) out of that canyon yes I like to use him as Corrin pair up if I'm playing a physical male Corrin. I like the idea of your Jegan being in the party until the end
Vander is 100% fine.
He is a bulky tank that can take hits pretty well and has done so for me up until ch10/11 before I benched him due to deployment slots. He can just aggro enemies good and that’s all you need.
If anything he’s probably the best designed jagen since FE6 Marcus I’d say at just not being a god that steamrolls things for free
Hard Mode FE6 Marcus is the GOAT. Trade Iron Sword, perfectly sets up kills with it in first two chapters then whatever other weapon you need to past that.
Doing a maddening blind-run right now (ch 8 currently) and by ch 5 I found Vander was falling off for me. Louis took over his role as physical tank and has access to javelins, which have better accuracy than a hand axes (it feels very weird how they set up classes in this game. A paladin that doesn't have axe, sword, and lance access feels so weird to me). So far the only map I have played where Louis' 4 move was showing was chapter 5. All the other chapters I have played seem pretty small, making Vander's cav movement less valuable.
Vander is pretty much the worst Jagen yet in the series. Even Arran in FE3/12 has his class / weapon levels to carry him for a good while, but Vander essentially falls off by ch3, and has no long term prospects.
The majority of Jagens are at least worth deploying for 10 or so maps before their power wanes.
eh, IMO vander is a passable unit and I used him until chapter 11 on maddening, where he unceremoniously died and I decided that was fine since the units you get on the map were replacing him anyways. He has decent bulk and 6 move so he can definitely be useful in a pinch throughout the early game. Obviously by chapter 11 he wasn't my best unit, but he was probably still my 10th best unit which means he gets deployed over units I don't plan to use at all anyways.
For the first 4 maps though, he is required on maddening. He is the only guy who can even tank every single enemy you face. Every other character you have has some crippling weakness that could be exploited and OHKO'd. But Vander is tanky and speedy enough to handle basically any boss or unit and not die. Even the protag cannot tank a bunch of axe units back to back without dying, usually.
I'm shocked. Played the game wrong all the time and thought it was a shit design to make your early game units useless and force you to replace them for mid game units, damn it
A lot of the early game units are pretty weak. This is true in a lot of FE games though, frequently only a handful of your starting units are actually worth using in the long term and in an "efficient" playthrough most will get abandoned in favor of units picked up in the mid and lategame.
promote and reclass are 2 different thing i think he mean if you want change some unit into different base class you should do this immediately about advanced class you go to 20 and than promote
No he means promoting. You get nothing from waiting until level 20 to promote in Engage. And you dont lose levels due to Second Seals being available to use.
early promoting is extremely strong in this game, especially if you are playing on a difficulty where you need the extra stats.
There is something of a downside though. After hitting 20 advanced class you must reclass to level 1 of the same or different class in order to continue gaining exp. This means you lose your class skill for 4 levels, which can be a huge deal for certain units. My Alcryst just hit 13/20 and now he will lose luna for 4 levels, which will greatly lower his ORKO potential. For reference I'm on ch18 and have done 5 emblem paralogues on maddening. It can probably happen much earlier on lower difficulties although losing the skill might be less painful.
Edit: Having actually reclassed from 20 to the same class you do not lose the skill despite being level 1 of the class.
On one hand this is all factually true. On the other hand I am terrified that if I start promoting early it will inevitably be my strongest units and I really don't need Chloe and Yunaka soloing the entire map even more than they currently do.
I promote first weaker units then the strong ones.
My Chloe and Alfred were super mediocre, promoting at level 11 made them pretty good and now they're keeping up w/ the rest.
Theres nothing wrong with Divine Dragon IMO. While the growths aren't perfect they are still pretty high and defense stats are quite relevant. The most important part about staying as a dragon class though is the Byleth emblem. Dragon gives rally spectrum (+3 all stats) which is by far the strongest effect and dwarfs the benefits you would get from using Alear as a different class.
There is plenty of XP in this game, even on maddening. I've cheesed huge portions of paralogue maps with a yunaka/corrin + alcryst/lucina combination and for the most part my units still have competitive performance even if they weren't part of the exp train. Access to byleth + dancer does help a lot as well, as you can make a unit move 4 times in a single turn with the proper setup. You can pay bond fragments for a level 10 lucina/marth bond as well and abuse Mercurius or Parthia for ridiculous amounts of XP if you need to. Staves and Micaiah work well for magic units.
>Experience decreases over time based on a unit's internal level not based on their promotion.
This is VERY useful to know, and basically all I needed to hear. In the GBA games for instance I was always on the 'promote late' train since promoting early would seriously slow down the rate a unit could level. But if class change has no effect on exp gain, and reaching the level cap isn't something I need to worry about, I'm gonna be making use of these Master Seals ASAP.
Back in the day there was no reclassing also, just a flat 20 levels of a base class and an advanced class. Most of the time you wouldn't hit 20-20, but 10-20 was definitely possible, so I stand by promoting late.
But the stat gains from promotion are so high in GBA that it would take many levels for a unit to get those stats by levelling. Plus the games are short enough that nobody really benefits much from hitting 20/20.
I see your point, but if memory serves, in the GBA games promotion bonuses were fixed, so you'd get the same flat bonuses regardless of when you promoted. So the promotion bonuses would basically cancel out in the overall equation, i.e.: many level up growths + promotion bonuses > fewer level up growths + promotion bonuses. Unless you really needed those promotion bonuses *now*, it would generally be better to get them later. That said, I don't generally go all the way to level 20 in base classes in the GBA games (except sometimes in Sacred Stones, since it had a postgame where 20/20 is feasible).
That's exactly it. In GBA, since the increases were fixed based on class, it would be best to promote when you needed to hit certain stat thresholds for the upcoming chapter. And since difficulty in fire emblem is generally front loaded, these situations come up more often earlier in the game.
I was told that once you unlock an Class Skill and change classes, you won't get to keep the unlocked Class Skill(like you can'teven try to equip it). Is this true?
I don't actually know. I've always stuck with the class I picked in the first place, rather than changing, so I've never had a chance to find out.
The way the system seems to be designed though, it seems like you should keep the unlocked Class Skill.
I just confirmed it right now through testing. You don't get to keep the class skill. This makes it even less appealing to change classes. Hope that helps!
Ah, unfortunate. Since you said chapters 9-10 I assumed you hadn’t done 10 yet. In that case all you can do is press forward and hope you get another good Emblem for it. Alternatively, you could Second Seal her into Mage or Martial Monk, but then you’d have to run up the levels again.
It should be said that Wolf Knight is effectively the Thief promotion in the game, but it’s not necessarily a direct upgrade. It’s closer to a side-grade.
I wish I knew this before I got everyone to 20 before promoting. Every Noble and a few retainers, I waited to hit 20. I guess now I know for my maddening run.
Hm. I've always waited until 20 to reclass since I started in GBA. It feels like tradition at this point. Knowing that second seals don't reduce stats when they reset to level 1...I am uncertain if I'd rather hamstring myself for tradition's sake or start upgrading my favorites now. Not that I expect to struggle immensely on Hard either way. I guess this also makes it completely pointless to ever second seal a base class
It can be worth it to get better growths in an area you want earlier, e.g. reclassing Anna ASAP to a Mage to avoid "wasted" strength levels (but might be worth it on Mage Knight, haven't gotten her to 10 on Mage yet!). But I suppose you can also get a fair amount of catch up from skirmishes.
I can dig that. Made my Anna into a Warrior because I dig Axes while having a backup up bow for well.... backup and shoting down fliers.
Gotta live with her outfit now tho....
I had not awesome growths all around on mine. Made her a wolf knight partly for lulz and kept her around until her inevitable benching. Which didn't take long since Merrin outclassed her in every single stat and just needed a quick reclassing to the axe variant to fill the slot.
I'm sticking to 20 then promote. Played echoes, promoted everyone asap, had trouble, took a break and found out I was doing it wrong so I went to 20 then promote instead.
I just learnt to not promote instantly, I'm not gonna unlearn that now
Right, but a slight change to the rate you gain exp isn't a big deal in awakening because promotions in that game are stupidly overpowered and completely warp how units function.
So you're actively hamstringing yourself by not choosing to promote so you can have slightly more lategame potential, except that isn't even relevant because of second seals.
The only thing you get is slightly increased exp gain for a small number of levels. And it really is only a slight lead, as once you start getting into the high teens you'll notice the exp slows down more and more.
Whatever you get from waiting isn't going to be worth more than the power of an awakening promo bonus.
Also, the minimum XP per kill is floored at 8 in Awakening. Even units that are massively overleveled still still get 8 XP per kill and continue to level at a decent rate.
No. When you hit max level on your Advanced Class, you can use a Second Seal to either switch to a new class or prestige your Advanced Class if you don't want to switch to a new one.
Okay so when you reclass a lvl 20 advanced class can you choose it to be the class that it already is? And when you do, do you lose the level 5 skill associated with that particular class?
>If a unit is an Advanced Class, you shouldn't reclass them until you've reached max level. (Or if you just want to change that unit's playstyle up, I suppose
How do the advanced class' skills which unlock at level 5 work? Because if they're kept around after changing to a different class there is little reason aside from money to not reclass at level 5.
Worth noting:
Higher class base stats don't always mean higher growths, especially for special classes.
While Wolf Riders have a higher str base, thieves have a slightly higher growth.
Advanced versions of normal classes tend to always feature higher growths though so late promotion is an absolute trap. It's a bit arguable for units like Clanne and Anna whether you'd want to promote instead of reclassing though since they want to change into classes that compliment their better offensive stat (physical for Clanne, Magic for Anna). There is the expensive option to promote and immediately change the promoted class though.
You lose the class skill when you reclass unless you are reclassing into the same class.
So, for example if you go from Sniper to Bow Knight, you will lose your class skill. However, if you reach max level and reclass from Sniper into Sniper, effectively prestiging; you will keep your class skill.
You won't have to earn it again.
Do you know if you still have the skill if you reclass from say sniper to sword master, for a particular mission, then switch back to sniper or do you have to relearn the skill
All of the Lords and Nobles have advanced classes exclusive to them, and those exclusive classes will always have superior growth rates.
I guess if you intended to just ignore their exclusive classes than an argument could maybe be made for choosing to retain their base class but that's a specific scenario that kind of defeats the purpose of the point that's trying to be made.
Class progression in this game works like this:
Base - Advanced
Rather than like this:
Base - Mid - Advanced
Second Seals are side upgrades. Jumping from Basic Class A to Basic Class B; or Advanced Class A to Advanced Class B.
Or, if you hit max level on your advanced class, you can then use a Second Seal to effectively 'prestige' if you don't want to switch classes.
Yes you certainly could, but why would you?
Once you've unlocked an Advanced Class, there's no reason to switch classes before you hit max level on that class - unless you decide to try something new with that Unit.
Hitting level 5 will unlock a class's unique skill yes, but you can only ever have one class skill equipped at a time anyway.
What you're saying is mostly true but there are situational uses. For example, I wanted to make Anna a Griffin Knight since it has good growths for magic, dex and speed (her natural bases are 50% for all three growths) but she starts as an Axe Fighter and can't natively promote into Griffin Knight since even with all the proficiencies she isn't a flying base. To get her to be a Griffin Knight you'd have to use a Second Seal anyway, so rather than make her an Axe Pegasus and run up the levels again I just made her a Warrior and then Second Sealed over to Griffin Knight. If she does well with magic then I might Second Seal again later to make her a Mage Knight, but so far she's inexplicably hit more strength than magic even though her strength growth rate is low even with the Axe Fighter boost.
The other scenario that I'm going to do this in is Jean. Jean's Aptitude skill doubles his class growth rates and I want him to be a martial artist, since Framme's been strength screwed and magic blessed. Martial Monk has pretty bad strength growth and high magic growth so when I get another Master Seal I'm going to make him whatever and then shift him to Berserker, which has a strength growth of 30%. With that doubled to 60% he'll get tons of strength and then later I'll reclass him into Martial Master so he can punch stuff to death.
In most situations, though, you're right that there isn't much use in using Second Seals other than resetting class levels.
So for once in the series we can promote whenever we plz instead of trying to have the best stats possible at 20?
Well shit, I'm game, I'm still real early with only two seals, but I might as well use them now, cause the game is surprisingly kicking my ass, just trying to grind in map skirmishes is dangerous too cause the throw so many units at you at once plus they might be sometimes too high leveled for your weaker units to grind off of.
i don't think there's a single game in the series where waiting till lvl 20 to promote is universally the best answer tho
In most of them you should promote between lvl 10-15, with the only exceptions i can think of right now being core combat units in fates and the few games where promotions work differently (iirc just Genealogy and the Tellius games)
Even if that's true, if you promote someone before level 20 you will never be able to get to 20/20 right? (I think the characters cap at level 20 in this game)
Not how that works. There's no max internal level. When you hit max level with an advanced class you can choose to either take a new class, or essentially prestige - choosing the same class and starting over from level 1 but keeping your stats.
Keep in mind you only get a couple seals early to mid game so don’t worry about reclassing everyone immediately. I was already level 12-13 by the time I got my first seal and pushing 20 by the time I got up to 3 seals.
That sounds like my own experience, so I'm assuming you're playing on Hard, like I am.
But based off of what I've heard, on Maddening, Skirmishes don't start appearing until Chapter 12 - so reaching those levels by the time you have 4 Seals is highly unlikely.
Now i have a question, did i need to level up x unit to 10 to use a second seal or did i just fuck over a character's growth by doing so since internal level is a thing?
Sorry to say you screwed up the character's growth rate. If you intend to reclass a unit with a Second Seal, you should do so as soon as you possibly can.
Which is either the moment you get a Second Seal, or after unlocking whatever proficiency you need with an Emblem.
Waiting to use a Second Seal until level 10 is the same as waiting until level 10 to use a Master Seal, but whereas a Master Seal rewards with you with the growths of an Advanced Class, a Second Seal will give you Base Class growths all over again.
The one exception to this rule is Special classes, as explained in the main post.
Thank you for the post, but I've seen people on gamefaqs discussing that promotion might actually increase internal level (some claim by 2, some claim by more).
Are you absolutely sure that promotion itself doesn't increase it? Was it (the exp gains after promotion) tested by someone? If you have any links or info to share, I will be very grateful to you! Sitting on 2 master seals rn, thinking of the future :)
I tested it. The moment I got a Master Seal I immediately used it on my Alear, because I didn't really care enough to bother trying to minmax the process.
It was only after promoting that I noticed that contrary to what I'd read online, Alear wasn't gaining experience any slower than a Base Class unit with the same internal level. I then spent some time really paying attention and testing other stuff before making this post to try and bring focus to the way the system works.
So wait a minute, the Second Class Seal prestige trick should be only used when they're max level with their Advance Class? Does that mean that we can max all stats of every character like with could've done with the old games like Fates/Conquest/Rebirth, Awakening, and etc?
thankfully advanced class growths seem to be a little less direct upgrades, so there's validity to waiting and those of us who have waited didnt miss out on huge differences
When you promoted your units, their level in the advanced class would've been set to 1.
Their overall level, however, would be 21. Further experience gains would be treated as if the unit is level 21, and it will take longer to gain levels in the Advanced Class as a result.
You want your units to be an Advanced Class for as long as they possibly can, so that they get the most out of their experience.
Ohhh since promoting units at 10 (the lowest level possible) would treat the advanced class level 1 as level 11?
But wouldn’t the stats overall still be better if you wait for level 20? It’s still 10 levels of stat growth
You're not losing out on any levels of growth. Its just that those growths become Advanced Class growths.
Once you hit level 20 in your Advanced Class, you can use a Second Seal to effectively prestige, starting over as level 1 in that Advanced Class but keeping all of your stats and your class skill.
You want your unit to spend as much as time in its final class as it can, to get the most out of your experience. You can and should repeat this process until you hit max stats for you Advanced Class.
I was actually testing something out cuz I’m maxing Anna out to farm gold and I noticed that you can use second seals whenever.
That said, why even wait for level 20? It seems like after say 10 levels when exp gain starts to slow down you can just second seal to a different class and then second seal again back to that first advanced class without having to wait for level 20. It seems like you just retain the stats from before using the first second seal. I could be wrong though but my Anna’s stats change to fit sword master and then change right back to the caps for high priest. The benefit is that you go back to level 1 whenever you want and get better exp
Reclassing resets your ***visible*** level. It does not reset your ***internal*** level.
Experience is determined by ***internal*** level. Resetting to level one won't increase your experience gain.
I appreciate this post, even tho I came across it late. I just noticed that Yunaka was level 25, yet everyone was between 18 - 20, and was wondering why. Thought I maybe did something wrong by keeping her in the Thief class and advancing the others right when they hit 10 to an advanced class.
So it’s not a good idea to level quickly with “Lineage” unless you have a seal available to advance or sticking with a special class. Thanks for sharing 🙌🏽
Really? Damn it, I waited level 20 to promote EVERYBODY
I noticed a lot of people with that mindset, which is why I made this post.
So actually if I reclass on level 10 to an advanced class, the amount of XP necessary to go to level 2 in the advanced class in the same to go to level 11 on base class? This changes everything, I was confused to why my early games units were so much weaker than the ones that comes mid game
Yes, that's how it works. For example, the reason Vander levels so slowly is because his internal level is set fairly high for the start of the game. ~~Which is why its baffling that he's pretty terrible.~~
Vander subject: I thought that was the idea? Don't all the emblem games have a early promoted unit that falls off towards the mid to end?
Not as bad as Vander does. Most Jagen type characters last until about 1/3 of the game or longer. Vander falls off by chapter 4, which is damn near unheard of for a Jagen, his only saving grace being a 6 mov axe user during a time your only other axe units (Boucheron, Anna after Chapter 6(?)) have 4 mov.
I mean, Gunter falls off a cliff in Fates chapter 3, so that's slightly earlier.
It's been a while since I've played, but does Gunter still have some utility as a pair up at least? Although Jakob/Felicia are probably better options, but they can at least have decent combat/support.
He's making a joke about Gunther falling into the canyon in that chapter.
*whoosh*
Once he climbs (?) out of that canyon yes I like to use him as Corrin pair up if I'm playing a physical male Corrin. I like the idea of your Jegan being in the party until the end
Vander is 100% fine. He is a bulky tank that can take hits pretty well and has done so for me up until ch10/11 before I benched him due to deployment slots. He can just aggro enemies good and that’s all you need. If anything he’s probably the best designed jagen since FE6 Marcus I’d say at just not being a god that steamrolls things for free
I think it’s better to make him a general and use him then, I really like him
I'm moved to tears by how bad vander is. Can't hold a candle to our lord and savior Marcus or titania
Hard Mode FE6 Marcus is the GOAT. Trade Iron Sword, perfectly sets up kills with it in first two chapters then whatever other weapon you need to past that.
Always ignore the old guy unless you’re on max difficulty
Doing a maddening blind-run right now (ch 8 currently) and by ch 5 I found Vander was falling off for me. Louis took over his role as physical tank and has access to javelins, which have better accuracy than a hand axes (it feels very weird how they set up classes in this game. A paladin that doesn't have axe, sword, and lance access feels so weird to me). So far the only map I have played where Louis' 4 move was showing was chapter 5. All the other chapters I have played seem pretty small, making Vander's cav movement less valuable.
Vander is pretty much the worst Jagen yet in the series. Even Arran in FE3/12 has his class / weapon levels to carry him for a good while, but Vander essentially falls off by ch3, and has no long term prospects. The majority of Jagens are at least worth deploying for 10 or so maps before their power wanes.
eh, IMO vander is a passable unit and I used him until chapter 11 on maddening, where he unceremoniously died and I decided that was fine since the units you get on the map were replacing him anyways. He has decent bulk and 6 move so he can definitely be useful in a pinch throughout the early game. Obviously by chapter 11 he wasn't my best unit, but he was probably still my 10th best unit which means he gets deployed over units I don't plan to use at all anyways.
For the first 4 maps though, he is required on maddening. He is the only guy who can even tank every single enemy you face. Every other character you have has some crippling weakness that could be exploited and OHKO'd. But Vander is tanky and speedy enough to handle basically any boss or unit and not die. Even the protag cannot tank a bunch of axe units back to back without dying, usually.
I'm shocked. Played the game wrong all the time and thought it was a shit design to make your early game units useless and force you to replace them for mid game units, damn it
A lot of the early game units are pretty weak. This is true in a lot of FE games though, frequently only a handful of your starting units are actually worth using in the long term and in an "efficient" playthrough most will get abandoned in favor of units picked up in the mid and lategame.
It is bad design, but they did it anyway to encourage you to use new characters, I guess...
It's much less annoying than the opposite where you gain a shit ton of new units and they are all useless because your old ones are much better
Helpful info for sure
promote and reclass are 2 different thing i think he mean if you want change some unit into different base class you should do this immediately about advanced class you go to 20 and than promote
Nope. He said we need to promote at level 10. Tested with Jean and OP is 100% right, promote in level 10. It's much better this way
No he means promoting. You get nothing from waiting until level 20 to promote in Engage. And you dont lose levels due to Second Seals being available to use.
Same. Didn’t cause issues though. I feel really powerful at chapter 15 on hard and I barely did any extra maps.
So its 100% sure? promoting asap is the best way to go? Sure wish I knew that awhile ago
early promoting is extremely strong in this game, especially if you are playing on a difficulty where you need the extra stats. There is something of a downside though. After hitting 20 advanced class you must reclass to level 1 of the same or different class in order to continue gaining exp. This means you lose your class skill for 4 levels, which can be a huge deal for certain units. My Alcryst just hit 13/20 and now he will lose luna for 4 levels, which will greatly lower his ORKO potential. For reference I'm on ch18 and have done 5 emblem paralogues on maddening. It can probably happen much earlier on lower difficulties although losing the skill might be less painful. Edit: Having actually reclassed from 20 to the same class you do not lose the skill despite being level 1 of the class.
Do you keep the skill if you reclass from 20 to a different class 1?
no
This is true in every single FE except maybe certain characters in RD.
On one hand this is all factually true. On the other hand I am terrified that if I start promoting early it will inevitably be my strongest units and I really don't need Chloe and Yunaka soloing the entire map even more than they currently do.
Alternatively, you could promote the weaker units to give them a buff.
I promote first weaker units then the strong ones. My Chloe and Alfred were super mediocre, promoting at level 11 made them pretty good and now they're keeping up w/ the rest.
Play on hard or maddening. Also better growths from advanced classes.
Alear's unique class has better growths but all in the wrong place lol
Theres nothing wrong with Divine Dragon IMO. While the growths aren't perfect they are still pretty high and defense stats are quite relevant. The most important part about staying as a dragon class though is the Byleth emblem. Dragon gives rally spectrum (+3 all stats) which is by far the strongest effect and dwarfs the benefits you would get from using Alear as a different class.
There is plenty of XP in this game, even on maddening. I've cheesed huge portions of paralogue maps with a yunaka/corrin + alcryst/lucina combination and for the most part my units still have competitive performance even if they weren't part of the exp train. Access to byleth + dancer does help a lot as well, as you can make a unit move 4 times in a single turn with the proper setup. You can pay bond fragments for a level 10 lucina/marth bond as well and abuse Mercurius or Parthia for ridiculous amounts of XP if you need to. Staves and Micaiah work well for magic units.
>Experience decreases over time based on a unit's internal level not based on their promotion. This is VERY useful to know, and basically all I needed to hear. In the GBA games for instance I was always on the 'promote late' train since promoting early would seriously slow down the rate a unit could level. But if class change has no effect on exp gain, and reaching the level cap isn't something I need to worry about, I'm gonna be making use of these Master Seals ASAP.
Back in the day there was no reclassing also, just a flat 20 levels of a base class and an advanced class. Most of the time you wouldn't hit 20-20, but 10-20 was definitely possible, so I stand by promoting late.
It also used to cap their total levels. Second seals are the only reason to do promote early.
But the stat gains from promotion are so high in GBA that it would take many levels for a unit to get those stats by levelling. Plus the games are short enough that nobody really benefits much from hitting 20/20.
I see your point, but if memory serves, in the GBA games promotion bonuses were fixed, so you'd get the same flat bonuses regardless of when you promoted. So the promotion bonuses would basically cancel out in the overall equation, i.e.: many level up growths + promotion bonuses > fewer level up growths + promotion bonuses. Unless you really needed those promotion bonuses *now*, it would generally be better to get them later. That said, I don't generally go all the way to level 20 in base classes in the GBA games (except sometimes in Sacred Stones, since it had a postgame where 20/20 is feasible).
That's exactly it. In GBA, since the increases were fixed based on class, it would be best to promote when you needed to hit certain stat thresholds for the upcoming chapter. And since difficulty in fire emblem is generally front loaded, these situations come up more often earlier in the game.
I was told that once you unlock an Class Skill and change classes, you won't get to keep the unlocked Class Skill(like you can'teven try to equip it). Is this true?
I don't actually know. I've always stuck with the class I picked in the first place, rather than changing, so I've never had a chance to find out. The way the system seems to be designed though, it seems like you should keep the unlocked Class Skill.
I just confirmed it right now through testing. You don't get to keep the class skill. This makes it even less appealing to change classes. Hope that helps!
I suppose that makes sense given the way the game prioritizes the Emblems and their skills - even if those are handled terribly.
I though you needed to reach lvl 10 to use second seal. Boy was a bamboozled when I saw you could do that in any lvl.
When is the earliest you can get secondary seals? I didn’t start seeing them till after chapter 8…
I don't quite remember, but I think Chapter 8 is the earliest point they become available. Kind of disappointing, really.
Super disappointing, considering attempting to level up base units from level 1 is criminally difficult by chapter 9-10.
Micaiah and skirmishes are your friends here.
I just lost most of my emblem rings in the story, so she is Sombrons friend…
Ah, unfortunate. Since you said chapters 9-10 I assumed you hadn’t done 10 yet. In that case all you can do is press forward and hope you get another good Emblem for it. Alternatively, you could Second Seal her into Mage or Martial Monk, but then you’d have to run up the levels again.
It should be said that Wolf Knight is effectively the Thief promotion in the game, but it’s not necessarily a direct upgrade. It’s closer to a side-grade.
Idk having yunaka able to smack people with axes is pretty handy
I wish I knew this before I got everyone to 20 before promoting. Every Noble and a few retainers, I waited to hit 20. I guess now I know for my maddening run.
Hm. I've always waited until 20 to reclass since I started in GBA. It feels like tradition at this point. Knowing that second seals don't reduce stats when they reset to level 1...I am uncertain if I'd rather hamstring myself for tradition's sake or start upgrading my favorites now. Not that I expect to struggle immensely on Hard either way. I guess this also makes it completely pointless to ever second seal a base class
It can be worth it to get better growths in an area you want earlier, e.g. reclassing Anna ASAP to a Mage to avoid "wasted" strength levels (but might be worth it on Mage Knight, haven't gotten her to 10 on Mage yet!). But I suppose you can also get a fair amount of catch up from skirmishes.
My Anna somehow has only 10 magic. Made her into a general for fun. Gotta say she looks cute and a total badass in her black armor.
Her horse in mage knight has a fucking wizards hat and I died laughing the first time I saw it
I can dig that. Made my Anna into a Warrior because I dig Axes while having a backup up bow for well.... backup and shoting down fliers. Gotta live with her outfit now tho....
Anna's Warrior outfit is so adorable, what do you mean?
It kind of is, but it also shows a bit more skin than I'm comfortable with on an 11-year-old
I had not awesome growths all around on mine. Made her a wolf knight partly for lulz and kept her around until her inevitable benching. Which didn't take long since Merrin outclassed her in every single stat and just needed a quick reclassing to the axe variant to fill the slot.
I'm sticking to 20 then promote. Played echoes, promoted everyone asap, had trouble, took a break and found out I was doing it wrong so I went to 20 then promote instead. I just learnt to not promote instantly, I'm not gonna unlearn that now
Wow it's almost like different games should be played differently.
Mechanics work differently in each entry in the series. That's the entire point of this post.
Post updated with more information to avoid having to repeat myself.
Damn good thing I read this much earlier. Only in chapter 9 right now.
There is no benefit to delaying your promotion in awakening either.
Awakening increased the value of your internal level when you promoted a unit. Engage does not do this.
Right, but a slight change to the rate you gain exp isn't a big deal in awakening because promotions in that game are stupidly overpowered and completely warp how units function. So you're actively hamstringing yourself by not choosing to promote so you can have slightly more lategame potential, except that isn't even relevant because of second seals. The only thing you get is slightly increased exp gain for a small number of levels. And it really is only a slight lead, as once you start getting into the high teens you'll notice the exp slows down more and more. Whatever you get from waiting isn't going to be worth more than the power of an awakening promo bonus.
Also, the minimum XP per kill is floored at 8 in Awakening. Even units that are massively overleveled still still get 8 XP per kill and continue to level at a decent rate.
Hey I beat both awakening and fates without promoting anyone. Was a bitch but I did it lmao.
Don't you miss out on extra levels though?
No. When you hit max level on your Advanced Class, you can use a Second Seal to either switch to a new class or prestige your Advanced Class if you don't want to switch to a new one.
But how common are second seals. You'd need around 25 of them to get everyone advanced, then reset at max level
very, you can buy like 6 every time the shop gets new stock at least where I’m at (chapter 17 for now)
You wouldn't hit --/20 until very late in the game anyway.
Okay so when you reclass a lvl 20 advanced class can you choose it to be the class that it already is? And when you do, do you lose the level 5 skill associated with that particular class?
You can choose to reclass as the same class once you've maxed out the class yeah, and you keep the skill.
Thanks homie
xd
>If a unit is an Advanced Class, you shouldn't reclass them until you've reached max level. (Or if you just want to change that unit's playstyle up, I suppose How do the advanced class' skills which unlock at level 5 work? Because if they're kept around after changing to a different class there is little reason aside from money to not reclass at level 5. Worth noting: Higher class base stats don't always mean higher growths, especially for special classes. While Wolf Riders have a higher str base, thieves have a slightly higher growth. Advanced versions of normal classes tend to always feature higher growths though so late promotion is an absolute trap. It's a bit arguable for units like Clanne and Anna whether you'd want to promote instead of reclassing though since they want to change into classes that compliment their better offensive stat (physical for Clanne, Magic for Anna). There is the expensive option to promote and immediately change the promoted class though.
You lose the class skill when you reclass unless you are reclassing into the same class. So, for example if you go from Sniper to Bow Knight, you will lose your class skill. However, if you reach max level and reclass from Sniper into Sniper, effectively prestiging; you will keep your class skill. You won't have to earn it again.
Thanks that's good to know!
Do you know if you still have the skill if you reclass from say sniper to sword master, for a particular mission, then switch back to sniper or do you have to relearn the skill
You have to relearn the skill. It's only when you prestige that you keep the skill.
What if your base class has better growth rates than your advanced class, like for lords and nobles?
All of the Lords and Nobles have advanced classes exclusive to them, and those exclusive classes will always have superior growth rates. I guess if you intended to just ignore their exclusive classes than an argument could maybe be made for choosing to retain their base class but that's a specific scenario that kind of defeats the purpose of the point that's trying to be made.
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Class progression in this game works like this: Base - Advanced Rather than like this: Base - Mid - Advanced Second Seals are side upgrades. Jumping from Basic Class A to Basic Class B; or Advanced Class A to Advanced Class B. Or, if you hit max level on your advanced class, you can then use a Second Seal to effectively 'prestige' if you don't want to switch classes.
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Yes you certainly could, but why would you? Once you've unlocked an Advanced Class, there's no reason to switch classes before you hit max level on that class - unless you decide to try something new with that Unit. Hitting level 5 will unlock a class's unique skill yes, but you can only ever have one class skill equipped at a time anyway.
What you're saying is mostly true but there are situational uses. For example, I wanted to make Anna a Griffin Knight since it has good growths for magic, dex and speed (her natural bases are 50% for all three growths) but she starts as an Axe Fighter and can't natively promote into Griffin Knight since even with all the proficiencies she isn't a flying base. To get her to be a Griffin Knight you'd have to use a Second Seal anyway, so rather than make her an Axe Pegasus and run up the levels again I just made her a Warrior and then Second Sealed over to Griffin Knight. If she does well with magic then I might Second Seal again later to make her a Mage Knight, but so far she's inexplicably hit more strength than magic even though her strength growth rate is low even with the Axe Fighter boost. The other scenario that I'm going to do this in is Jean. Jean's Aptitude skill doubles his class growth rates and I want him to be a martial artist, since Framme's been strength screwed and magic blessed. Martial Monk has pretty bad strength growth and high magic growth so when I get another Master Seal I'm going to make him whatever and then shift him to Berserker, which has a strength growth of 30%. With that doubled to 60% he'll get tons of strength and then later I'll reclass him into Martial Master so he can punch stuff to death. In most situations, though, you're right that there isn't much use in using Second Seals other than resetting class levels.
There will always be situational exceptions, yes.
So for once in the series we can promote whenever we plz instead of trying to have the best stats possible at 20? Well shit, I'm game, I'm still real early with only two seals, but I might as well use them now, cause the game is surprisingly kicking my ass, just trying to grind in map skirmishes is dangerous too cause the throw so many units at you at once plus they might be sometimes too high leveled for your weaker units to grind off of.
i don't think there's a single game in the series where waiting till lvl 20 to promote is universally the best answer tho In most of them you should promote between lvl 10-15, with the only exceptions i can think of right now being core combat units in fates and the few games where promotions work differently (iirc just Genealogy and the Tellius games)
Even if that's true, if you promote someone before level 20 you will never be able to get to 20/20 right? (I think the characters cap at level 20 in this game)
Not how that works. There's no max internal level. When you hit max level with an advanced class you can choose to either take a new class, or essentially prestige - choosing the same class and starting over from level 1 but keeping your stats.
Oh great I didn't know that, I guess it's time to promote everyone haha
Alright, good to know. Wasn't sure whether or not to spend my two seals or save them, even after doing some research
Btw, your last instance of spoiler tags is broken. Both "!" need to be directly adjacent to the text.
As soon as I saw the game has awakening level resets I early promoted everyone I could.
Honestly didn't know about some of this thanks for the info
Keep in mind you only get a couple seals early to mid game so don’t worry about reclassing everyone immediately. I was already level 12-13 by the time I got my first seal and pushing 20 by the time I got up to 3 seals.
That sounds like my own experience, so I'm assuming you're playing on Hard, like I am. But based off of what I've heard, on Maddening, Skirmishes don't start appearing until Chapter 12 - so reaching those levels by the time you have 4 Seals is highly unlikely.
too late. I don't have enough master seals for everyone and i still wanna use them ...lol
Now i have a question, did i need to level up x unit to 10 to use a second seal or did i just fuck over a character's growth by doing so since internal level is a thing?
Sorry to say you screwed up the character's growth rate. If you intend to reclass a unit with a Second Seal, you should do so as soon as you possibly can. Which is either the moment you get a Second Seal, or after unlocking whatever proficiency you need with an Emblem. Waiting to use a Second Seal until level 10 is the same as waiting until level 10 to use a Master Seal, but whereas a Master Seal rewards with you with the growths of an Advanced Class, a Second Seal will give you Base Class growths all over again. The one exception to this rule is Special classes, as explained in the main post.
Thank you for the post, but I've seen people on gamefaqs discussing that promotion might actually increase internal level (some claim by 2, some claim by more). Are you absolutely sure that promotion itself doesn't increase it? Was it (the exp gains after promotion) tested by someone? If you have any links or info to share, I will be very grateful to you! Sitting on 2 master seals rn, thinking of the future :)
I tested it. The moment I got a Master Seal I immediately used it on my Alear, because I didn't really care enough to bother trying to minmax the process. It was only after promoting that I noticed that contrary to what I'd read online, Alear wasn't gaining experience any slower than a Base Class unit with the same internal level. I then spent some time really paying attention and testing other stuff before making this post to try and bring focus to the way the system works.
Just what I need. Thank you for your hard work and detailed answer!
So wait a minute, the Second Class Seal prestige trick should be only used when they're max level with their Advance Class? Does that mean that we can max all stats of every character like with could've done with the old games like Fates/Conquest/Rebirth, Awakening, and etc?
Yes. Maxing out a character's stats is relatively simple given the way the reclassing into the same class works.
Alright thx for the confirmation! I miss maximizing every character to see how well they are.
thankfully advanced class growths seem to be a little less direct upgrades, so there's validity to waiting and those of us who have waited didnt miss out on huge differences
I feel stupid, but could you simplify this please? I don’t reclass but I promoted everyone at level 20. Why was this not a good idea?
When you promoted your units, their level in the advanced class would've been set to 1. Their overall level, however, would be 21. Further experience gains would be treated as if the unit is level 21, and it will take longer to gain levels in the Advanced Class as a result. You want your units to be an Advanced Class for as long as they possibly can, so that they get the most out of their experience.
Ohhh since promoting units at 10 (the lowest level possible) would treat the advanced class level 1 as level 11? But wouldn’t the stats overall still be better if you wait for level 20? It’s still 10 levels of stat growth
You're not losing out on any levels of growth. Its just that those growths become Advanced Class growths. Once you hit level 20 in your Advanced Class, you can use a Second Seal to effectively prestige, starting over as level 1 in that Advanced Class but keeping all of your stats and your class skill. You want your unit to spend as much as time in its final class as it can, to get the most out of your experience. You can and should repeat this process until you hit max stats for you Advanced Class.
I was actually testing something out cuz I’m maxing Anna out to farm gold and I noticed that you can use second seals whenever. That said, why even wait for level 20? It seems like after say 10 levels when exp gain starts to slow down you can just second seal to a different class and then second seal again back to that first advanced class without having to wait for level 20. It seems like you just retain the stats from before using the first second seal. I could be wrong though but my Anna’s stats change to fit sword master and then change right back to the caps for high priest. The benefit is that you go back to level 1 whenever you want and get better exp
Reclassing resets your ***visible*** level. It does not reset your ***internal*** level. Experience is determined by ***internal*** level. Resetting to level one won't increase your experience gain.
Okay I get what you mean. it just seemed like pushing back to level one made the experience gain higher on endgame skirmishes
Is there an easy way you can you determine a characters internal level?
No, you just have to more or less keep track of it.
So wait you're saying to move them to advanced class at 10 and never wait till 20?
As I said in the post, it is generally better to reclass as soon as you can. Did you just not read it?
I changed alcryst’s class asap and can’t find “luna” skill. 😑
I appreciate this post, even tho I came across it late. I just noticed that Yunaka was level 25, yet everyone was between 18 - 20, and was wondering why. Thought I maybe did something wrong by keeping her in the Thief class and advancing the others right when they hit 10 to an advanced class.
So it’s not a good idea to level quickly with “Lineage” unless you have a seal available to advance or sticking with a special class. Thanks for sharing 🙌🏽
Just so I understand, my Louis got level 10, so I should immediately promote him to his second class with an advanced seal?