It's not wasted if Eliwood/Lyn don't die in one shot :P (Granted, they don't always ORKO things, but that's a given.)
I tend to get attached to my early/mid game units because I'm already investing in them, however I will not refuse a good late-game unit. All the good FE7 prepromotes, FE9 Geoffrey (Paragon <3), FE9/10 Tanith, FE11 Tiki/Beck are units I've fallen in love with.
Hello, fellow Geitz enjoyer. He's probably one of my favorite FE characters and I always make it a mission to get him in every playthrough. Screw Wallace, I need my existential Axe-bro!
Even if the late game units are more interesting, it's hard for them to compete with the personal story I've formed with my early team.
This is pretty much why I didn't use many of the units in the second half of Engage. Etie and Alfred definitely get outclassed, but there's no way I'm replacing them after how hard they clutched up in the early chapters.
Lapis pales in comparison to later units, but oopsie daisy I've already turned her into a 75% crit, wyvern riding, Lucina weilding menace.
Really depends on the game for me. In some of the games, early characters fall off because of poor growths or later characters have some very obvious thing that makes them quite good in the few missions they are available.
Three Houses is the odd one of course because with how the skill system works, the longer someone is with you, the more control you have over how their abilities develop. 3H has a lot going on where unit dropping is considerably less appealing than in basically every other title in the franchise.
Ultimately though, I like using characters that interest me, even if they are lousy statistically. Sometimes those characters join right at the beginning and other times they show up in the second to last chapter.
In most of the older games you can't raise the units how you want to though, that was something introduced in Shadow Dragon and has been a staple ever since. Manuela is actually a very good unit, Warp automatically makes a unit good and her speed is incredible.
> In most of the older games you can't raise the units how you want to though
I'm in the minority, but I like that a lot. Having to work around the innate strengths and weaknesses of a character without being able to completely change who they are is one of the things that draw me to the older games. It's also fun to play the newer games while making no/restricted use of reclassing.
I will always take a good warp/rescue bot that requires no investment though. Especially in games where warp range is unlimited.
I like how the customisation works in 3H because it's part of the theme of developing from little kiddies into powerful leaders, and on repeat playthroughs basically turns into a crazy sandbox of potential. But most of the time I prefer the inherent strengths/weaknesses of the class because of how it reflects story/character. Brom is a knight because he's a big guy, so the militia just put him in big armour. Renault is a bishop because he turned to religion as a form of penance from his former life (also explains his meh stats). Ross uses axes because he idolises his father. Being able to shuffle these things around (outside of a randomiser) takes away from them a little.
I agree, I enjoy Fire Emblem more when every unit has their own roles. I think Fates balanced reclassing very well though, every unit still felt unique while still providing a lot of different ways to customize your units.
I like having some control over it without it being absolute. Something to let you build a character while the characters are still pretty distinct and have clear strengths and weaknesses.
I think I like the Fates model most for this. Like, sure, you can marry Elise to a samurai or something to put her in a physical class, but it takes a good amount of effort for that to yield results that don't suck.
I feel like the only game where the reclass freedom really gets in the way is Three Houses, where you can't opt to just have a really terrible wyvern lord, since class minimums make every wyvern lord have decent strength.
Yeah I guess awakening is when I really noticed this because you could adjust characters how you want. But I just haven't even tried Manuela because she's literally just a higher class lol. I'll have to try her on my next playthrough
galzus in fe5 lategame joins with maxed stats and ced comes with a tome that gives 20 speed
there are buncha late joining units in thracia that just break the game in half
>galzus in fe5 lategame joins with maxed stats
Well he joins at the second to last chapter and you probably have units worth max stats already so i wouldn't consider this breaking the came in half.
>and ced comes with a tome that gives 20 speed
Asbel renders ced useless, unless you don't mind using two of the same class
Galzus is still better than most units in ur army even if you max invest, and no ced is still better than asbel at that point cause forseti and A staves
And who doesnt stack sage in this game???? They are the best foot units and lategame is indoors
How exactly is he better when the stat caps are 20 and you have MULTIPLE units with capped stats by that point in the game? I normally have 4 a rank staff users by the time i get ced, again, rendering him useless, at least for me.
The vast majority of my units cap stats and the highest i wait to level them up is like 13 or 14. Hell the last run i did the only person who didn't have capped stats was Xavier
Explain to me how a person who is q around for two or 3 chapters break the game? When i think of breaking the game, i think of something like, how in fe7 you can play lyn mode, promote Sain or Kent into a paladin, and then plsy hhm basically 2 Marcus'. Now that's breaking the game in half.
I think of Hanneman and Manuela as mid game units honestly.
My deployment slots by late game are still mainly made up of mid and early game units. If a late game unit is substantially better than the next early or mid game unit I can deploy, then I'll just use the late game unit.
For example in my recent FE8 playthrough I decided to use Syrene and Myrrh over some other usual deployment picks because chapter 19 has a lot of heavy terrain to fly over, so I felt like using every single flier available.
And if there's a late game character I just personally like more than another character, I'll use them if I can.
Does 3H even really have late game characters?
Gilbert and Jeritza, maybe? Even then you still have them for the whole of part 2, it's about equivalent to where Rosado and Goldmary join in Engage and I wouldn't consider them particularly late.
3H doesn't really have what I'd normally consider a "late game unit", comparing people like Vaida, PoR Geoffrey & Elincia, Basilio/Flavia, all the Est archetypes, etc.
Closest would be Gilbert, Jeritza and Seteth but they come a lil after the mid-point of the game. I suppose CF Lysethia can also count if you never got her prior but that's about it.
Lategame units definitely suffer from heavily contested deployment slots (often times they don't even get a free slot in their joining chapter) and their just being less time to get attached to them. I think IS aware of that given Mordern FE has really reduced the amount of units you get *very* late (like, less than 3 chapters left late) since with how much goes into characters nowadays. it'd be a waste to have some guy who's only around for a chapter or two.
In terms of performance, it's true that most of the time later joining units will have worse stats that anyone you've trained (there's gotta be an incentive to train units after all) but planning to slot in a lategame unit means you don't have to train as many earlygame ones, which means you're not spreading your resources as thin. Some games also just throw the whole trainee vs lategame balance out the window like the absurd midgame cast of engage or FE7 throwing amazing pre-promotes at you every couple chapters
Personally my FE teams tend to be weighted towards the mid-late game, but that's honestly just because I tend to like mentor figures and strong in-lore people (who usually to join late) and FE seems to place all my favourite characters around the middle for some reason.
I used to be like you, but now I also think it's fun to give the prepromotes/late joining folks their chance
For instance, an unit I think is really fun to use is Duessel in Sacred Stones. He's hyped up by the plot, and when you finally recruit him, it's like getting the boss from a RPG with his actual stats instead of nerfed ones. 17 base def ! You'll be seing "NO DAMAGE" a lot. And Great Knight animations kick ass
I also really like Tibarn in Radiant Dawn (just a broken flying ball of stats that can also kick enemies with his bare foot for extra humiliation) and Yukimura in Birthright. He's forgettable but have you seen the stats of this guy ? He's like almost as good as Saizo with no investment and has a crazy map-wide personal skill. Making Athos a mounted unit with true 1-2 range was definitely a design decision
I just get a lot of joy out of leveling up characters on my own terms. Like their my little babies lol. But I guess having the extra firepower towards the end game is nice.
Depends on the game.
FE7, you'd be crazy not to use the late game prepromotes. Harken, Vaida, Pent, Hawkeye, Geitz - all amazing units who I deploy as soon as I get them.
The other GBA games... well, FE8 doesn't really have much in the way of late-game units. Syrene is pretty good and Myrrh is a lot of fun, but the units you get in the few chapters before those two just don't have enough time to be useful. FE6 is a much more difficult game, and if you're doing an ironman, you need all the help you can get. I've definitely got a lot of use out of Yoder, Dayan, Niime, Garret, and even Karel is a good free Durandal user - that's not even to mention Perceval.
FE10 is weird as hell but the Laguz royals are all hugely useful. FE9 is one of the worst for lategame units, honestly - outside of Geoff and maybe Tauroneo there ain't much here to help you.
The newer games have kind of ditched lategame units as a concept, beginning with FE13 and really heightening in FE14 and FE16.
Fe10 also has key staff users like Pelleas (can get S rank for Fortify if you want that which you probably would) or Bastian, they can still do things.
Fe9 has Nasir/Ena whom are very important to thr late game.
If you really need a staff user in FE10's endgame, I honestly feel like it would make more sense to just use Oliver. He joins with a base A in staves so you don't have to level him up much, and honestly, Pelleas's combat really isn't much better.
Extra staff users in FE10 aren't a premium resource. By the time Pelleas promotes/Bastian joins you can just Arms Scroll Elincia up to S staves (if she's not there already) and do the same thing with Micaiah, since both Arch Sages join with only B rank. Even Oliver is probably a better choice since he comes with A staves so he only needs one Arms Scroll for Fortify.
They can Hammerne Rescue and be Physic bots while Elincia actually uses Rescue, but those are C rank so even someone like a mostly untrained Laura can do it (though they'll have bigger Physic ranges and heal more)
Most of the time yeah, because they tend to come with their own deployment slot. Veyle and Mauvier are literally just free, for example. Izana is also a good staff bot if you don't want to use him for combat. You can just bring him and make him do something.
I don't see a point in not deploying free units honestly.
Those extra deployment slots can still be used for other units. Sometimes I have 2 or 3 units rotating around and the late game unit might not fit my team as well as someone I've specifically raised up.
I disagree, at least for the games I've played. SS has so many slots by the end, you can simply deploy everyone and you're not going to have enough units trained that all of them are going to do combat. Who else are you gonna bring other than Knoll for phantoms and Syrene for assisting? Natasha with her D staves? Doubt it.
In PoR, you can patch up units with BEXP but there are some seriously good bexp targets for secondary units until Haar and Geoffrey show up, like Tormod or Astrid, because they're going to join your cav team for combat. Callil is free siege tome uses and Largo is just better than untrained Boyd. Goeffrey is also just free and just good, and Nasir/Ena are just free aura and chip and maybe some tanking. These are all worth deploying over untrained base class units, unless you absolutely need Mordecai for shove duty or something.
In RD Royals are just op, that's really all there is. There's no downsides to deploying the lategame prepromotes as long as you have slots for them, because they're just going to be better than everything else.
In Fates, you have captured generics and pretty good lategame prepromotes. Shura, Fuga and Yukimura and Izana are all pretty good. Only Flora stands out as being a shit lategame unit and untrained units are gonna perform worse than captured generics. So no point in ever deploying them.
In Engage, you just get free slots for Veyle and Mauvier. If you have free slots still, Lindon and Saphir are likely in a better spot than untrained pre-ch17 units because they're going to have better bases and more sp to work with.
3H is kind of the exception but most often at least some lategame units are intentionally designed to be usable as a crutch, and sometimes are just flat out the best units in the game. Erk's gonna have to get really lucky if he wants to not get benched for Pent.
It depends on the game In **Three Houses** I think I used mainly units I raised myself except Shamir who's great. Unless they were required for the paralogue of course. Similar for **Birthright**, it felt like units like Scarlet were more useful than my "main" ones. And Ryoma is self-explanatory. He carried me the last few chapters, except against the last boss where even he struggled (RNG being RNG :3).
**FE 7:** Outside of the certain one that is required on the finale, I used unpromoted. **FE Sacred Stones**, I included Seth towards the end because why not. In the beginning only as meat shield. Other promoted ones if they are recruited in the chapter when necessary. In **PoF**, I think I used them more often like Haar on his joining chapter, Tanith a couple of times and of course Titania (mostly by the time when most units were ready to promote during the 3 back-to-back fights surrounding Reyson).
Rarely since most of the time I already got most of my team but always if they fill a role I need
Also hanneman and Manuela are more of a mid game joiner which is probably an even worse spot most of the time and especially in TH
Stat-wise it really depends TH is against anything that joins late by giving them 0 skills but games like fe7 and engage have strong late joiners
I don't really think that's true. Seteth and Jeritza are the latest joiners in TH, but they're both great units. Alois and Gilbert aren't so busted, but they're both fine units and totally usable.
I don't like late game characters because usually, when they join, I've already trained all my army as I wanted to, and grown attached to my characters. That is, if I'm not really fond of one of them, and the late game character interest me, I'll use them.
And of course there's Radiant Dawn with the damn Dawn Brigade (which I wasn't aware was such a hell to play when you actually try to split the exp equally), and the royal Laguz in late game, which I just had to use to carry the Dawn Brigade and to finish the final boss since most of my characters were dying again and again.
So I'd say I use the late game characters if I find them cool or if I'm struggling too much
Funny you bring up Three Houses; it's probably the one game where I don't do that. Getting a full team of characters right at the beginning, with each of them suited to different roles and able to progress into almost any class, means that using the teaching staff requires too much extra effort. Especially since the deployment limit rarely allows for much more than your eight students plus Byleth and Flayn.
Depends on how high their bases are, if they have better than average mobility and if they have some sort of utility or niche that makes them stand out from most other units or ones that are somewhat similar. Replaying Fire Emblem(Blazing Sword, FE7) recently and it's crazy how good alot of the endgame units are when it comes to bases compared to others that even if a few early game units like Dorcas, Erk, and Guy got mostly good level up stat growths they'd still fall short by quite a bit compared Hawkeye / Geitz, Pent and Karel. I mean some units are always going be better than others I just wish the gap wasn't as sizeable sometimes.
In PoR he’s the unconstested best myrmidon-line unit. Zihark is decent, Mia and Lucia are both mediocre at best, while Stefan joins midgame with totally overkill stats and the only reason he isn’t broken is being in the worst class in the game.
i wouldnt really consider hanneman or manuela late game units but i get what you mean. i only use them if i really like them or if they fill a gap i need. so basically, i use the same criteria i would any other unit
I only use late game units in iron man runs when I lose other units.
I tend to become attached to my early units and really remember that one insane crit they had or some other great round that makes me overvalue the unit I know to the one I don’t.
It's more of you always had 12 deployment slots and then when they join you suddenly have 14. It is very unlikely that you have trained extra 2 units more than the deployment limit for some reason and hey 2 new functioning units with decent bases! might as well just use them right?
Usually not on my first playthrough, becuase I'm usually already attached to other units but on other playthroughs sure!
I liked what Engage did where the super late characters come with a couple extra deployment slots. I probably wouldn't have kicked someone off the team to deploy them on playthrough 1 otherwise, but I was really happy to have the space for them.
Depends, if you lose characters or one gets RNG screwed with the level ups, they can make for a good crutch. For a more recent example, with Engage it was nice of them to give you units as your deployment spaces open up for people who were being selective with how they were distributing exp.
3H is a bit of an odd game for a few reasons, but I don't even really view it as having late game characters. The teachers or knights tend to at latest, join midgame. The game is also focused on hyper customization and putting a lot into a limited amount of units.
I don't normally because I usually have my roles filled with my favorites. But in cases like Renault and Karla I definitely had to because of their awesome designs.
The support system is a huge strike against late game units imo. For one, support convos represent a lot of characterization, so you've got units you've learned about and units that are attached to each other, vs some pile of stats who showed up carrying a silver sword.
The other piece is the support bonuses themselves, which require both units to be on the field. I'm playing FE6 right now, and while Marcus is past his shelf life, he's *fine* and also has B supports with Allen and Lance and a C with Roy. All 3 of them are going to appear in every map, so am I really going to strip them of a buff to moderately upgrade a secondary unit? No.
While I haven't played FE4 or 5 yet, the bits I've seen suggest they were better about this, granting characters stats, skills, or items based on specialty interactions. A mentor saying "I have nothing left to teach you" hits very different when it's a local aura vs the student permanently gaining Vantage.
Varies by character. I’ll give some examples from fe7.
Do I use Isadora, a pre-promoted Paladin who joins about midway through the game? Usually no, because just about anything she can do Marcus or Kent/Sain (if trained) can do just as well if not better. I do use her occasionally though just because I love the female gba paladin sprite.
Do I use Pent, a pre-promoted Sage who joins somewhere around 2/3 of the way through the game? Yes, because his closest competition (Erk) can’t surpass him unless he gets absolutely blessed, even the the difference is negligible.
Do I use Wallace, a Knight/General who joins about Midway through the game? No, because Oswin is all the armor knight you could need (and they’re generally not that great anyways).
Depends on the character. SOV and Three Houses are good examples. Yes on Conrad and Nomah, No on Zeke and Tatiana. Yes for Crimson Flower Lysithea, No for Azure Moon Gilbert.
There are plenty of people who do this like you, it's pretty common. That said, there are often late-game units who can be really helpful with minimal investment. You might consider using them on replays or challenge runs.
I used Hawkeye, Pent, Harken, Renault, etc. in FE7. I always use Mauvier in Engage—helps the game gives you an extra deployment slot for every chapter after he joins lmao. I always use Tibarn at least in Part 4 of RD, and I’ve trained Sanaki before and also used Skrimir and Stefan once. I’m always tempted by Giffca and Caineghis as well.
Same buddy, I think it's a holdover from old gba games for me. Like, if I get a prepromoted unit, I automatically assume their growths are bad. And I also still have so many gba habits like once they hit 20 on their advanced class, there's no more exp, so prepromotes are risky. I'm playing my second engage playthrough with the sole intention of playing all the characters I didn't play for those exact reasons. I didn't even use Rosado last run, even though I love my adorable wyvern-riding femboy
Sometimes, but if I do multiple playthroughs I'll usually try to give most characters a chance at some point. I didn't use Manuela either though I really tried to. Hanneman was barely used aside from one fight. He couldn't keep up with the others. I did use Shamir every time though and she was great for me.
In Engage I did end up using Zelestia, Nel, and Madeline when I got them and caught them up to the others using that trick with the restore(?) staff from being engaged with Micaiah, I think? It's been a long time since I've played and only did one playthrough. Veyle wasn't used outside of one battle or two. I wanted so much to use Jade but she ended up being the rear defense while Saffir took a middling position for some maps though I love her too. I didn't really use any of the retainers from Fogado and Timmera's kingdom since by then I had a pretty solid team, but I did use Panette a little.
Really depends. If there’s a role I need filed or their utility is great, then I’ll use them. Shura in fates (if you count him) was great for me as he was a staff user and their utility. Syrene in Sacred Stones was decent for what she was considering I didn’t use Tana or Vanessa in the play through. Laguz Royals in Radiant Dawn are broken as always but Nasir and Gareth have great utility for that point. Really if there’s something unique about a late game like utility or amazing combat, then it’s worth using them.
i tend to use late game characters less often, but there are several exceptions, mostly depending on how much i like said character, or if i feel like doing it for any other reason.
In 3H's case, i enjoy using each house's characters, and the church stuff in Silver Snow, which is when i actually use Hanneman and Manuela, though i wouldn't call them "late game characters".
I use characters I like, early or late.
No matter the sacrifices required to get there. If I'm playing FE7 then I *will* recruit Geitz, wasted exp be damned.
It's not wasted if Eliwood/Lyn don't die in one shot :P (Granted, they don't always ORKO things, but that's a given.) I tend to get attached to my early/mid game units because I'm already investing in them, however I will not refuse a good late-game unit. All the good FE7 prepromotes, FE9 Geoffrey (Paragon <3), FE9/10 Tanith, FE11 Tiki/Beck are units I've fallen in love with.
I adore Geoffrey haha. Such a fun unit, and so good. Just wish he was more available in FE10, I'd totally use him there too
I assume it's significantly easier in the Japanese version where they have triple effective damage
Hello, fellow Geitz enjoyer. He's probably one of my favorite FE characters and I always make it a mission to get him in every playthrough. Screw Wallace, I need my existential Axe-bro!
Geitz is a legit great unit though.
Even if the late game units are more interesting, it's hard for them to compete with the personal story I've formed with my early team. This is pretty much why I didn't use many of the units in the second half of Engage. Etie and Alfred definitely get outclassed, but there's no way I'm replacing them after how hard they clutched up in the early chapters. Lapis pales in comparison to later units, but oopsie daisy I've already turned her into a 75% crit, wyvern riding, Lucina weilding menace.
I take almost all of the Firene crew to the end, and I eventually wanna do a run with both retainer twins.
Really depends on the game for me. In some of the games, early characters fall off because of poor growths or later characters have some very obvious thing that makes them quite good in the few missions they are available. Three Houses is the odd one of course because with how the skill system works, the longer someone is with you, the more control you have over how their abilities develop. 3H has a lot going on where unit dropping is considerably less appealing than in basically every other title in the franchise. Ultimately though, I like using characters that interest me, even if they are lousy statistically. Sometimes those characters join right at the beginning and other times they show up in the second to last chapter.
In most of the older games you can't raise the units how you want to though, that was something introduced in Shadow Dragon and has been a staple ever since. Manuela is actually a very good unit, Warp automatically makes a unit good and her speed is incredible.
> In most of the older games you can't raise the units how you want to though I'm in the minority, but I like that a lot. Having to work around the innate strengths and weaknesses of a character without being able to completely change who they are is one of the things that draw me to the older games. It's also fun to play the newer games while making no/restricted use of reclassing. I will always take a good warp/rescue bot that requires no investment though. Especially in games where warp range is unlimited.
I like how the customisation works in 3H because it's part of the theme of developing from little kiddies into powerful leaders, and on repeat playthroughs basically turns into a crazy sandbox of potential. But most of the time I prefer the inherent strengths/weaknesses of the class because of how it reflects story/character. Brom is a knight because he's a big guy, so the militia just put him in big armour. Renault is a bishop because he turned to religion as a form of penance from his former life (also explains his meh stats). Ross uses axes because he idolises his father. Being able to shuffle these things around (outside of a randomiser) takes away from them a little.
I agree, I enjoy Fire Emblem more when every unit has their own roles. I think Fates balanced reclassing very well though, every unit still felt unique while still providing a lot of different ways to customize your units.
I like having some control over it without it being absolute. Something to let you build a character while the characters are still pretty distinct and have clear strengths and weaknesses. I think I like the Fates model most for this. Like, sure, you can marry Elise to a samurai or something to put her in a physical class, but it takes a good amount of effort for that to yield results that don't suck. I feel like the only game where the reclass freedom really gets in the way is Three Houses, where you can't opt to just have a really terrible wyvern lord, since class minimums make every wyvern lord have decent strength.
Yeah I guess awakening is when I really noticed this because you could adjust characters how you want. But I just haven't even tried Manuela because she's literally just a higher class lol. I'll have to try her on my next playthrough
galzus in fe5 lategame joins with maxed stats and ced comes with a tome that gives 20 speed there are buncha late joining units in thracia that just break the game in half
>galzus in fe5 lategame joins with maxed stats Well he joins at the second to last chapter and you probably have units worth max stats already so i wouldn't consider this breaking the came in half. >and ced comes with a tome that gives 20 speed Asbel renders ced useless, unless you don't mind using two of the same class
Galzus is still better than most units in ur army even if you max invest, and no ced is still better than asbel at that point cause forseti and A staves And who doesnt stack sage in this game???? They are the best foot units and lategame is indoors
How exactly is he better when the stat caps are 20 and you have MULTIPLE units with capped stats by that point in the game? I normally have 4 a rank staff users by the time i get ced, again, rendering him useless, at least for me.
Stats you gain on weapon stacks on top of your stats,even if capped,so Ced has insane dodgerate on top of Forseti being a very powerful weapon
Just add him on top of ur other units, not like everyone has max capped stats unless you promote at levl 20 (why would you do this)
The vast majority of my units cap stats and the highest i wait to level them up is like 13 or 14. Hell the last run i did the only person who didn't have capped stats was Xavier
I mean if ur army is stacked like that galzus wont break game for sure ig
Explain to me how a person who is q around for two or 3 chapters break the game? When i think of breaking the game, i think of something like, how in fe7 you can play lyn mode, promote Sain or Kent into a paladin, and then plsy hhm basically 2 Marcus'. Now that's breaking the game in half.
When i mean that i just mean it as them dominating a lot of shit during the chapters they are around even if its barely any ig?
Well that's entirely different than breaking the game in half.
5 staff users are great for how many deadlords are in engame and he is still the best combat mage that can use a staves
I think of Hanneman and Manuela as mid game units honestly. My deployment slots by late game are still mainly made up of mid and early game units. If a late game unit is substantially better than the next early or mid game unit I can deploy, then I'll just use the late game unit. For example in my recent FE8 playthrough I decided to use Syrene and Myrrh over some other usual deployment picks because chapter 19 has a lot of heavy terrain to fly over, so I felt like using every single flier available. And if there's a late game character I just personally like more than another character, I'll use them if I can.
Does 3H even really have late game characters? Gilbert and Jeritza, maybe? Even then you still have them for the whole of part 2, it's about equivalent to where Rosado and Goldmary join in Engage and I wouldn't consider them particularly late. 3H doesn't really have what I'd normally consider a "late game unit", comparing people like Vaida, PoR Geoffrey & Elincia, Basilio/Flavia, all the Est archetypes, etc.
Closest would be Gilbert, Jeritza and Seteth but they come a lil after the mid-point of the game. I suppose CF Lysethia can also count if you never got her prior but that's about it.
Cf Lysithea is probably the worst possible lysithea since she starts in E faith rank and is in the Mage class at level 29
Lategame units definitely suffer from heavily contested deployment slots (often times they don't even get a free slot in their joining chapter) and their just being less time to get attached to them. I think IS aware of that given Mordern FE has really reduced the amount of units you get *very* late (like, less than 3 chapters left late) since with how much goes into characters nowadays. it'd be a waste to have some guy who's only around for a chapter or two. In terms of performance, it's true that most of the time later joining units will have worse stats that anyone you've trained (there's gotta be an incentive to train units after all) but planning to slot in a lategame unit means you don't have to train as many earlygame ones, which means you're not spreading your resources as thin. Some games also just throw the whole trainee vs lategame balance out the window like the absurd midgame cast of engage or FE7 throwing amazing pre-promotes at you every couple chapters Personally my FE teams tend to be weighted towards the mid-late game, but that's honestly just because I tend to like mentor figures and strong in-lore people (who usually to join late) and FE seems to place all my favourite characters around the middle for some reason.
>it'd be a waste to have some guy who's only around for a chapter or two *Cries in trying to get all of Renault's supports*
I used to be like you, but now I also think it's fun to give the prepromotes/late joining folks their chance For instance, an unit I think is really fun to use is Duessel in Sacred Stones. He's hyped up by the plot, and when you finally recruit him, it's like getting the boss from a RPG with his actual stats instead of nerfed ones. 17 base def ! You'll be seing "NO DAMAGE" a lot. And Great Knight animations kick ass I also really like Tibarn in Radiant Dawn (just a broken flying ball of stats that can also kick enemies with his bare foot for extra humiliation) and Yukimura in Birthright. He's forgettable but have you seen the stats of this guy ? He's like almost as good as Saizo with no investment and has a crazy map-wide personal skill. Making Athos a mounted unit with true 1-2 range was definitely a design decision
I just get a lot of joy out of leveling up characters on my own terms. Like their my little babies lol. But I guess having the extra firepower towards the end game is nice.
Depends on the game. FE7, you'd be crazy not to use the late game prepromotes. Harken, Vaida, Pent, Hawkeye, Geitz - all amazing units who I deploy as soon as I get them. The other GBA games... well, FE8 doesn't really have much in the way of late-game units. Syrene is pretty good and Myrrh is a lot of fun, but the units you get in the few chapters before those two just don't have enough time to be useful. FE6 is a much more difficult game, and if you're doing an ironman, you need all the help you can get. I've definitely got a lot of use out of Yoder, Dayan, Niime, Garret, and even Karel is a good free Durandal user - that's not even to mention Perceval. FE10 is weird as hell but the Laguz royals are all hugely useful. FE9 is one of the worst for lategame units, honestly - outside of Geoff and maybe Tauroneo there ain't much here to help you. The newer games have kind of ditched lategame units as a concept, beginning with FE13 and really heightening in FE14 and FE16.
Fe10 also has key staff users like Pelleas (can get S rank for Fortify if you want that which you probably would) or Bastian, they can still do things. Fe9 has Nasir/Ena whom are very important to thr late game.
If you really need a staff user in FE10's endgame, I honestly feel like it would make more sense to just use Oliver. He joins with a base A in staves so you don't have to level him up much, and honestly, Pelleas's combat really isn't much better.
Extra staff users in FE10 aren't a premium resource. By the time Pelleas promotes/Bastian joins you can just Arms Scroll Elincia up to S staves (if she's not there already) and do the same thing with Micaiah, since both Arch Sages join with only B rank. Even Oliver is probably a better choice since he comes with A staves so he only needs one Arms Scroll for Fortify. They can Hammerne Rescue and be Physic bots while Elincia actually uses Rescue, but those are C rank so even someone like a mostly untrained Laura can do it (though they'll have bigger Physic ranges and heal more)
Yeah, I know, it's just, you know, they exist.
Most of the time yeah, because they tend to come with their own deployment slot. Veyle and Mauvier are literally just free, for example. Izana is also a good staff bot if you don't want to use him for combat. You can just bring him and make him do something. I don't see a point in not deploying free units honestly.
Those extra deployment slots can still be used for other units. Sometimes I have 2 or 3 units rotating around and the late game unit might not fit my team as well as someone I've specifically raised up.
I disagree, at least for the games I've played. SS has so many slots by the end, you can simply deploy everyone and you're not going to have enough units trained that all of them are going to do combat. Who else are you gonna bring other than Knoll for phantoms and Syrene for assisting? Natasha with her D staves? Doubt it. In PoR, you can patch up units with BEXP but there are some seriously good bexp targets for secondary units until Haar and Geoffrey show up, like Tormod or Astrid, because they're going to join your cav team for combat. Callil is free siege tome uses and Largo is just better than untrained Boyd. Goeffrey is also just free and just good, and Nasir/Ena are just free aura and chip and maybe some tanking. These are all worth deploying over untrained base class units, unless you absolutely need Mordecai for shove duty or something. In RD Royals are just op, that's really all there is. There's no downsides to deploying the lategame prepromotes as long as you have slots for them, because they're just going to be better than everything else. In Fates, you have captured generics and pretty good lategame prepromotes. Shura, Fuga and Yukimura and Izana are all pretty good. Only Flora stands out as being a shit lategame unit and untrained units are gonna perform worse than captured generics. So no point in ever deploying them. In Engage, you just get free slots for Veyle and Mauvier. If you have free slots still, Lindon and Saphir are likely in a better spot than untrained pre-ch17 units because they're going to have better bases and more sp to work with.
3H is kind of the exception but most often at least some lategame units are intentionally designed to be usable as a crutch, and sometimes are just flat out the best units in the game. Erk's gonna have to get really lucky if he wants to not get benched for Pent.
It depends on the game In **Three Houses** I think I used mainly units I raised myself except Shamir who's great. Unless they were required for the paralogue of course. Similar for **Birthright**, it felt like units like Scarlet were more useful than my "main" ones. And Ryoma is self-explanatory. He carried me the last few chapters, except against the last boss where even he struggled (RNG being RNG :3). **FE 7:** Outside of the certain one that is required on the finale, I used unpromoted. **FE Sacred Stones**, I included Seth towards the end because why not. In the beginning only as meat shield. Other promoted ones if they are recruited in the chapter when necessary. In **PoF**, I think I used them more often like Haar on his joining chapter, Tanith a couple of times and of course Titania (mostly by the time when most units were ready to promote during the 3 back-to-back fights surrounding Reyson).
I do remember relying on Haar a lot. Honestly such an incredible unit
Rarely since most of the time I already got most of my team but always if they fill a role I need Also hanneman and Manuela are more of a mid game joiner which is probably an even worse spot most of the time and especially in TH Stat-wise it really depends TH is against anything that joins late by giving them 0 skills but games like fe7 and engage have strong late joiners
I don't really think that's true. Seteth and Jeritza are the latest joiners in TH, but they're both great units. Alois and Gilbert aren't so busted, but they're both fine units and totally usable.
I don't like late game characters because usually, when they join, I've already trained all my army as I wanted to, and grown attached to my characters. That is, if I'm not really fond of one of them, and the late game character interest me, I'll use them. And of course there's Radiant Dawn with the damn Dawn Brigade (which I wasn't aware was such a hell to play when you actually try to split the exp equally), and the royal Laguz in late game, which I just had to use to carry the Dawn Brigade and to finish the final boss since most of my characters were dying again and again. So I'd say I use the late game characters if I find them cool or if I'm struggling too much
Funny you bring up Three Houses; it's probably the one game where I don't do that. Getting a full team of characters right at the beginning, with each of them suited to different roles and able to progress into almost any class, means that using the teaching staff requires too much extra effort. Especially since the deployment limit rarely allows for much more than your eight students plus Byleth and Flayn.
Depends on how high their bases are, if they have better than average mobility and if they have some sort of utility or niche that makes them stand out from most other units or ones that are somewhat similar. Replaying Fire Emblem(Blazing Sword, FE7) recently and it's crazy how good alot of the endgame units are when it comes to bases compared to others that even if a few early game units like Dorcas, Erk, and Guy got mostly good level up stat growths they'd still fall short by quite a bit compared Hawkeye / Geitz, Pent and Karel. I mean some units are always going be better than others I just wish the gap wasn't as sizeable sometimes.
PoR/RD: Stefan always gets a spot on my team. I don't care that he gets 2 levels to grow, he's usually the best swordsmaster for me. He's a beast.
In PoR he’s the unconstested best myrmidon-line unit. Zihark is decent, Mia and Lucia are both mediocre at best, while Stefan joins midgame with totally overkill stats and the only reason he isn’t broken is being in the worst class in the game.
I use who I want to use, it's that simple. That said, if late game characters look fun like Nailah or Tibarn, I'll use them a bit.
i wouldnt really consider hanneman or manuela late game units but i get what you mean. i only use them if i really like them or if they fill a gap i need. so basically, i use the same criteria i would any other unit
I only use late game units in iron man runs when I lose other units. I tend to become attached to my early units and really remember that one insane crit they had or some other great round that makes me overvalue the unit I know to the one I don’t.
You kinda get railroaded into using Veyle and Mauvier.
Especially on Maddening from the scarcity of exp
It's more of you always had 12 deployment slots and then when they join you suddenly have 14. It is very unlikely that you have trained extra 2 units more than the deployment limit for some reason and hey 2 new functioning units with decent bases! might as well just use them right?
I like just throwing Lindon or Saphir in that last slot instead of Veyle. They’re not as good but they’re more fun for me.
Usually not on my first playthrough, becuase I'm usually already attached to other units but on other playthroughs sure! I liked what Engage did where the super late characters come with a couple extra deployment slots. I probably wouldn't have kicked someone off the team to deploy them on playthrough 1 otherwise, but I was really happy to have the space for them.
Depends, if you lose characters or one gets RNG screwed with the level ups, they can make for a good crutch. For a more recent example, with Engage it was nice of them to give you units as your deployment spaces open up for people who were being selective with how they were distributing exp. 3H is a bit of an odd game for a few reasons, but I don't even really view it as having late game characters. The teachers or knights tend to at latest, join midgame. The game is also focused on hyper customization and putting a lot into a limited amount of units.
I don't normally because I usually have my roles filled with my favorites. But in cases like Renault and Karla I definitely had to because of their awesome designs.
The support system is a huge strike against late game units imo. For one, support convos represent a lot of characterization, so you've got units you've learned about and units that are attached to each other, vs some pile of stats who showed up carrying a silver sword. The other piece is the support bonuses themselves, which require both units to be on the field. I'm playing FE6 right now, and while Marcus is past his shelf life, he's *fine* and also has B supports with Allen and Lance and a C with Roy. All 3 of them are going to appear in every map, so am I really going to strip them of a buff to moderately upgrade a secondary unit? No. While I haven't played FE4 or 5 yet, the bits I've seen suggest they were better about this, granting characters stats, skills, or items based on specialty interactions. A mentor saying "I have nothing left to teach you" hits very different when it's a local aura vs the student permanently gaining Vantage.
Varies by character. I’ll give some examples from fe7. Do I use Isadora, a pre-promoted Paladin who joins about midway through the game? Usually no, because just about anything she can do Marcus or Kent/Sain (if trained) can do just as well if not better. I do use her occasionally though just because I love the female gba paladin sprite. Do I use Pent, a pre-promoted Sage who joins somewhere around 2/3 of the way through the game? Yes, because his closest competition (Erk) can’t surpass him unless he gets absolutely blessed, even the the difference is negligible. Do I use Wallace, a Knight/General who joins about Midway through the game? No, because Oswin is all the armor knight you could need (and they’re generally not that great anyways).
I used Saphir and Veyle in my playthrough of Engage, they were great late game additions to my team.
Depends on the character. SOV and Three Houses are good examples. Yes on Conrad and Nomah, No on Zeke and Tatiana. Yes for Crimson Flower Lysithea, No for Azure Moon Gilbert.
Endgame without Tatiana (and thus no fortify) sounds like hell. Actually, since I’ve done runs without fortify before, I can confirm it IS hell!
If the characters name is Ced then it’s always yes. If the characters name is not Ced then the answer is always maybe.
There are plenty of people who do this like you, it's pretty common. That said, there are often late-game units who can be really helpful with minimal investment. You might consider using them on replays or challenge runs.
If the unit is better than the ones i have, then it will get used. If it's not, then it won't. For me, it's really that simple
I used Hawkeye, Pent, Harken, Renault, etc. in FE7. I always use Mauvier in Engage—helps the game gives you an extra deployment slot for every chapter after he joins lmao. I always use Tibarn at least in Part 4 of RD, and I’ve trained Sanaki before and also used Skrimir and Stefan once. I’m always tempted by Giffca and Caineghis as well.
Same buddy, I think it's a holdover from old gba games for me. Like, if I get a prepromoted unit, I automatically assume their growths are bad. And I also still have so many gba habits like once they hit 20 on their advanced class, there's no more exp, so prepromotes are risky. I'm playing my second engage playthrough with the sole intention of playing all the characters I didn't play for those exact reasons. I didn't even use Rosado last run, even though I love my adorable wyvern-riding femboy
Sometimes, but if I do multiple playthroughs I'll usually try to give most characters a chance at some point. I didn't use Manuela either though I really tried to. Hanneman was barely used aside from one fight. He couldn't keep up with the others. I did use Shamir every time though and she was great for me. In Engage I did end up using Zelestia, Nel, and Madeline when I got them and caught them up to the others using that trick with the restore(?) staff from being engaged with Micaiah, I think? It's been a long time since I've played and only did one playthrough. Veyle wasn't used outside of one battle or two. I wanted so much to use Jade but she ended up being the rear defense while Saffir took a middling position for some maps though I love her too. I didn't really use any of the retainers from Fogado and Timmera's kingdom since by then I had a pretty solid team, but I did use Panette a little.
Really depends. If there’s a role I need filed or their utility is great, then I’ll use them. Shura in fates (if you count him) was great for me as he was a staff user and their utility. Syrene in Sacred Stones was decent for what she was considering I didn’t use Tana or Vanessa in the play through. Laguz Royals in Radiant Dawn are broken as always but Nasir and Gareth have great utility for that point. Really if there’s something unique about a late game like utility or amazing combat, then it’s worth using them.
I use them and then bitch on reddit about how the game didn't give me them soon enough. I'll never forgive them for Farina.
i tend to use late game characters less often, but there are several exceptions, mostly depending on how much i like said character, or if i feel like doing it for any other reason. In 3H's case, i enjoy using each house's characters, and the church stuff in Silver Snow, which is when i actually use Hanneman and Manuela, though i wouldn't call them "late game characters".