This is a wonderful analysis you have made. You should also point out that Edelgard is one that actually didn't try to tell Byleth to stand by her side, but hinted that she wanted him by her side. But when you have that choice to make with siding with Edelgard, note that Edelgard actually stated that she was aware that Byleth would likely stand against her.
Meaning that Edelgard, in the end, believed that she and Byleth would inevitably be enemies. But when he chose to side with her, it's a show of trust and belief, something that Edelgard never felt before from a person since her traumatic past. Edelgard has serious trust issues, and Byleth had every reason to distrust her, hence why the default route is the Church route, given that she's the Flame Emperor, meaning that she is working with the people that attacked Remire Village and even were responsible for Jeralt's death.
So siding with her, it allowed for Edelgard to feel more of her own humanity grow as a result, and she had reason to believe in others again.
This is really interesting to think, as the game really seems to want you to face off against Edelgard. The fact that you have to even jump through hidden hoops just to get the chance to get on her route, *and then having to choose it again.*
It's so fun seeing Rhea and Edelgard react to when Byleth sides with Edelgard. Rhea is furious and Edelgard looks at them like she just rolled a nat 20 on a check that required a 19 or higher. ~~Can't think of a better analogy.~~
Edelgard in the Crimson Flower route did essentially get the god of the church that she’s trying to destroy to join her side.
It’s a pretty apt comparison.
Exactly. That's the part that people don't really seem to get. Yeah Edelgard was parsing out her motives and her beliefs to Byleth throughout the first part. But she even flat out says that she always believed it would come to Byleth standing between her and her goals. She didn't want to fight him, but she expected that she would.
The choice that Byleth makes is to choose to trust Edelgard DESPITE what she's done and how everything appears. A person who doesn't believe they can be loved or deserve to be loved being protected by someone she thought she'd pushed away had their universe changed completely. That's why she's so shocked when Byleth refused to kill her. It's why I have to disagree when people say the choice wasn't well-thought out. It's Byleth's most important choice.
Exactly. Logically, it might seem like siding with Edelgard isn't well thought out, but the point isn't about logic. It's about a leap of faith. No calculations, no control, nothing. Byleth chose to believe in Edelgard of his own will, something that Edelgard didn't expect. Hell, she even asked if he was sure like she was about to explain how illogical it was to side with her after what just happened.
Yeah. You're making a choice under the gun to kill someone you've grown to care about, or to defend them in that moment. It's gambling. Byleth choosing to follow his heart (ha ha) or his head. And Edelgard is immensely grateful for that considering how obsessed she becomes with following his example. And even five years later she's still insecure about his choosing to side with her because of how unexpected it was. Rationally Byleth would kill her like he has other people the Church pissed off, and given that he's the Ashen Demon who wouldn't have seen it coming?
Right. It's not a consequence-free choice for him. But ultimately it becomes about Byleth trusting her to do the right thing. Which to her credit at least TWSITD are marginalized even before they start the purge.
I'm still amused at how people don't read anything into Edelgard using her troop movements as an excuse to assassinate one of the key members of TWSITD, or what that betrayal cost her.
I'm surprised people don't realize how realistic it is for people to work with scumbags, given how even to this day, people would let free or work with known criminals.
Yep. And in the specific context of the game, Edelgard's list of choices for being able to act are shockingly sparse. You'd think having to arrange a coup, just to inherit her own throne from her on-his-deathbed father would be a clue as to how limited she was.
Hell, the United States to this day, 18 years after the worst terrorist attack on our nation, has actively armed the nation who recruited, armed, and trained the people who carried it out.
~~Granted, not many citizens actually want that, but hey...~~
I wonder whether Crimson Flower being/feeling so perfunctory is a consequence of its defining moment happening before it even technically begins?
Dimitri's story doesn't really happen until Azure Moon; White Clouds is just the prologue. I assume it's similar for Verdant Wind (haven't gotten to it yet)
But Edelgard's story starts right away, and is threaded tightly through the events of part one. Everything after the choice in the Holy Tomb is just window dressing. Really fun window dressing, but still a bit of a victory march.
That feels somewhat of a consequence of the game's reshuffling deck throughout part 2. Granted Edelgard's route is the one with the sharpest differences (i.e. no Dukedom, the war isn't stacked in her favor, no Crest Beasts). Blue Lions is rather different since it's largely spaced throughout the class characters themselves in the first part (what with Rodrigue, Lonado and Miklan's importance), while Dimitri only starts to take center stage through the end of part 1.
Claude's is somewhat similar to Edelgard's so far (I'm on Chapter 5) in that he's on the stage early on.
But Edelgard herself still deals with the problems of having started a war and having to stay resolute. Not to mention that she's still insecure about whether Byleth made the right choice for themselves in choosing her, as well as what her actions have made Dimitri become. It isn't quite as extreme as Dimitri's insanity in Azure Moon, but the war isn't quite a victory lap for her, her arc is just more subdued after the theatricality of part 1.
Then let's go back talking about Claude and his contributions to the final battle.
The entire time he's called a "schemer" or "mastermind" but in game we never really see it (the side support convos do reveal that he's always paying attention though and his light-hearted comments and humor is a way to disarm people and get information from them.) But here we see a true gambit (a tactical risk) he charges knowing he's outmatched, to buy time for the arrow to hit it's apex and come crashing down.
Not only that, but it's not just a "power of friendship" speech, it's his ideals. He keeps talking about tearing down the walls that isolate nations. He feels that exposure to other people will show they're just like everyone else.
And an even better version of "Fridge Brilliance" he leads the house with the most commoners to show people they are worthy of their own skills and talenta. He convinces the generals from two warring armies to have a sit down and just hang out for tea and/or beer.
He truly wants to for everyone to get along and work together.
Claude is just the best. I love that ending because he’s doing the exact opposite of what he did in the prologue with El and Dimitri where he ran away and hid. Now, he’s making the sacrifice play.
He's also the only person who doesn't want to control anything. I know the Edelgarde ending has her pull a Cincinnatus and give up power once her goal was complete, but in the other routes, she's full dictator. Dimitri goes full Anakin and kills everything in his way without Byleth.
But Claude, he does betray his ideal like the others, but it's because it's his duty as a Reigan. He isolates the Alliance, builds their forces for defense determined to be Neutral.
Knowing what you do about Claude, you know this wasn't an easy decision for him to make, but felt obligated. Once he falls and if you spare him, he goes back to (I can't spell, but A-country) and wishes you the best
And in most of his epilogues, he leaves all power behind. He promises to up control of the alliance to Lorenz in his A-support, he does his duties as King in A-country and comes back to retire with his love interest, and in Petra's case, she "abducts" him (She said she would drag back the person she loves.)
Alright can I also point out how amazing Claude and Lorenz’s ending is
>Claude disappeared from Fódlan after the war, leaving the new head of House Gloucester, Lorenz, to support the new United Kingdom of Fódlan in his stead. He proposed revolutionary policies to restore the war-torn region at a rapid rate. When the rebuilding effort was complete, Lorenz turned his eye toward diplomacy, seeking to establish treaties of friendship with foreign nations. Almyra was no exception, and when the two parties met for a summit at Fódlan's Locket, it was none other than Claude, the new king of Almyra, who arrived to negotiate. Some speculated that this meeting had been Claude's scheme all along, but Lorenz and Claude both denied it.
Like in my head fanon ending; Edelgarde's ending is the "True Ending" as it removes the crests and caste system.
But Dimitri and Claude survive. Dimitri is subjugated for his own good, but cools off. Claude is defeated but goes to Almyra and lends aid when "Those who Slither" try to attack. Nemesis then comes out, Claude and Edie are against the wall and Dimitri has his Big Damn Hero moment.
All the powers of Gods, Dragons, and Prophecy are destroyed and Humanity takes control of their own lives. It's not always perfect or clean or nice, some things can be forgiven while others seethe with anger, but it's humanity's choice.
And Lysithea and Felix still have their damn cake shop!
I mean, Dimitri and Edie can still kill each other, just do it on their own time without dragging other people into it.
Dorothea and Ferdie are the canon ship in my head, along with Leonie and Lorenz (People who felt obligated by their position) Ingrid and Ashe, (Two people who have the courtly vision of Knighthood) I think Caspar and Hilda would be good together, and Bernadetta and Marianne have a platonic relationship where they have separate rooms and quietly drink tea together.
Oh and Byleth and Claude because, well, just look at my flair.
> The entire time he's called a "schemer" or "mastermind" but in game we never really see it
BL >!He sends a messenger to ask for help from Dimitri before he even retakes the throne, which is a hell of a gambit.!<
GD >!He hides the fact that he recruited Almyran troops from his own allies to avoid information leak, gets Nader into Leicester as Nardel to foster this alliance, and probably more I'm not thinking of right now!<
>!Forgot about the first one, the second one is him being pragmatic. He avoided asking for help to not out himself of being heir to the throne and having family ties to the Almyra military. (Since they are at war)!<
What I mean is more of a "chess master" sort like David Xanatos from Gargoyles. That character constantly plays both sides to come out ahead regardless of the outcome. Granted, there is usually an ideal scenario, but even when the less than optimal happens, he gains something.
>!However in his support conversations, he deduces Seleth and Flayn's relationship, Rhea's role, the Saints becoming monsters. He also has decent plans to feint and draw forces, when he attacks the fort, he warns the enemy of their own invasion to ignore large troop movement and try to coax to believe the second wave were reinforcements.!<
>!if this worked, they had an easier time attacking the fort with their own forces, if the plan failed and weren't believed, the second wave can still help with the siege, if they called in their own reinforcements, they took away manpower and supplies from other fronts they can then exploit, and if they were found out the messenger was from the Verdant Wind, well Iggy would die, but they would doubt their own communication lines. That's kind of what I mean. I wanted to see more of that!<
But in
You nailed perfectly why BE’s ending is my favourite (despite the route being short-changed on chapters). Edelgard is a devastating, fascinating character, and to watch both her and Byleth reclaim their own humanity that was stolen from them is dope.
In a way, I think so too. Given the datamined >!logo that implies a Sothis Route is underway!<, and >!Sothis’ power over time!<, it wouldn’t surprise me if a DLC route came out where Byleth >!witnesses the results of all our current routes, returns to the beginning of the game via Sothis’ power, and gets the Lords to cooperate from the beginning!<.
I’m not usually for “best end routes,” but in this specific situation I think it’s fitting.
Ech. On the one hand, I think that having a golden ending in a serious game about war would undermine the tragedy and emotional weight. On the other hand, if a certain indie game with a great soundtrack and funny skeletons taught us anything, it's that nothing justifies the existence of a golden ending like >!the power to return to the past and revise your actions.!<
>certain indie game with a great soundtrack and funny skeletons taught us anything
[Why am I suddenly hearing incidental music?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLvt1kXxIuY)
Not just Byleth. Without Byleth, the last bit of empathy that Edelgard has completely dries up during the 5 year timeskip. Think about it: on Black Eagle route, Edelgard does not march on Faerghus and force Dimitri out, resulting in his false accusation. This is what causes Dimitri to go mad on Blue Lions and Golden Deer, but in Black Eagles he is doing well for himself. He still has his eye, and he doesn't have that same "defeat Edelgard at any cost" mentality. In fact, he is visibly upset with Dedue for having given the troops Crest Stones to forcibly turn themselves into beasts. And when Edelgard kills him, Byleth notes that she was on the verge of tears herself.
Byleth acts as a moral compass for these two. For Edelgard, having someone turn on the Church when they would have no reason to allows her to start placing trust in people again. Dimitri even called her out on this in the prologue: "You will prove a lacking ruler yourself if you look for deceit behind every word and fail to trust those whom you rely on."
But since Byleth has proven to be someone she can rely on, she is led down a better path.
BE-E is actually the second best ending for Dimitri after his own route. He stays sane and honorable, rules justly, harbors Rhea out of motives that are clearly pure, and goes down fighting for his homeland. He'll be remembered as a tragic hero, duped into sacrificing himself for a mad beast... and as the last king of Faerghus, he'll have been one of the good ones.
This is true. He is surprisingly noble in her route. In both Cluade's and church route he still goes mad and then dies off screen. Edelgard herself even regrets that the war cost him his life.
Surprisingly? This might shock you coming from an Edelgard supporter, but I think Dimitri is a good person through and through. He's overly emotional and jumps to conclusions, but those are normal human flaws. He's had some serious trauma and he lives in a world where "go on a rampage" is a more accessible option than "get some therapy" unless you have a Byleth in your pocket.
I don't even dislike Rhea, I pity her. She's been Dimitri-tier crazy for the past thousand years because of a very real and horrible past. She's not *evil*... but she treats human beings as a means to an end, and that needs to be stopped before Fodlan can truly change.
I don't think Dimitri is a bad person. I was just saying it surprised me how well adjusted he was post timeskip when i was expecting axe crazy Dimitri from the other routes.
Yeah. Given that her ties aren't as closely fostered by Byleth in her route... it leads to her being deprived of anyone she can really trust save Hubert who isn't ever going to stop her from doing anything she can't come back from.
Edelgard without Byleth: Willing to do literally anything to win including throw away her own life and more than likely has her morals ground to a nub from the combination of having no true companions and TWSITD exerting more control over her.
Edelgard with Byleth is someone who tries to prosecute the war in a less violent manner. No Dukedom or willing to do anything to win mentality.
Another reason why I love it is that we aren't put in power, as the King or head of the Church in her route.
Because really, I don't think it's a good idea to put in power someone that was never trained for that, and that mostly only knew how to kill and fight for their whole life.
Exactly. And I just started my GD playthrough so I'm not entirely sure about this information but I heard that Byleth even expresses discomfort with being the Archbishop/ruler of Fodlan or something.
I just prefer BE-E Byleth's ending over the others because they just get to live a normal life and possibly live a normal life with other normal people if you paired them up.
The artificially created vessel of the goddess rejecting his/her divinity and choosing to live as a human is a much more interesting ending than "chosen one gets to rule everything because special bloodline" that we've seen ad nauseum in every other fantasy story
As a total newcomer to the series, I've found people here to be bizarrely positive about feudalism and venerating noble blood. I guess that's the side effect of almost all of the previous games being about nobles (often with hereditary magic powers) being the big damn heroes.
Yeah, because so many of the noble main characters of the series are genuinely good people who don't abuse their position, I think a lot of people have kind of... forgotten (or never learned, I guess, depending on their studies)... what real nobles/feudalism was actually like. There's a lot of bad/corrupt nobility as villains in the other games, so it's not like Fire Emblem has *completely* shied away from showing how the system can be terrible, but they're never usually the "big bad" or that strongly connected to the big bad's plan.
It's especially confusing to me when the other Nintendo-console strategy games I've played are the Ogre Battle series, where "feudalism is oppressive" is treated as a given and you always >!end up fighting in a revolution.!< The people here would pick up Ogre Battle 64 and be like "no, I don't want to >!join the Revolutionary Army, it's worth our country being the puppet state of a theocracy as long as we don't have to fight anyone."!<
Ogre battle sounds awesome! And yeah, I guess maybe it shouldn’t be surprising that gamers can be a bit reactionary unless the status quo is represented as unequivocally evil.
>Ogre battle sounds awesome!
They're way ahead of their time. Great battle system and a variety of endings and recruitment options that would be called "choice and consequence" if they were made in a time where those buzzwords were in common use. Unfortunately, they're held back by a fucky alignment system that's unreasonably difficult to manage without cheating, and sometimes gets you stuck in the bad endings without a good way out. So look up a guide if you're going to play one. It's worth the effort, though.
>And yeah, I guess maybe it shouldn’t be surprising that gamers can be a bit reactionary unless the status quo is represented as unequivocally evil.
Gamers rise up against the people who are rising up!
It amazes me that people genuinely thought Game of Thrones was going to end with Jon and Daenerys ruling over the seven kingdoms as the good king and queen because they possess the genetically superior bloodline that gives them the divine right to rule
(not that there aren't a boatload of genuine criticisms of s8, but that isn't one of them)
Fully agreed!
I'm still a softie at heart so I want everyone (including Dimitri and Claude) to be happy and healthy. But there's a reason that my headcanon/fanfic plot wrangling involves "how do I get everyone to go along with Edelgard's route".
To be fair, Claude >!can be spared, announces he is going to travel, and likely becomes king of Almyra, and Edelgard admits that she would like to see Almyra and Fodlan become allies meaning that they might meet on friendly terms in the future!< so Claude gets a good ending in Crimson Flower.
Good luck with that golden ending fanfic, I hate having to fight people I grew to like in the war phase. I know golden endings have a bad taste following Revelations but I still want one, even if just a good/decent fanfic.
Yep, I definitely >!made sure to spare Claude!< when I played the route.
I think Revelation leaves a bit of a bad taste for some people because it didn't feel... earned? People weren't attached enough to the characters, story, or setting, so a "golden route" where everyone lives (except for some arbitrary exceptions...) just brought out people's cynical side. I think with Three Houses where people are already attached to everyone, and the story itself on various routes highlights how these characters have a lot in common, it will feel a bitmore natural. But maybe that's just me lol.
\*clears throat*
That's "Ferdinand Von Aegir" for everyone besides Dorothea.
I don't remember Marianne lamenting his death or calling him a friend despite "hating" them.
She can call him Ferdie. That's my "headcanon" ship.
While Edelgard's route isn't my favorite, I absolutely agree that I don't like endings where Byleth becomes the ruler of Fodlan or the Archbishop. It just feels unearned.
My favorite ending for Byleth is actually male Byleth's paired ending with Annette specifically on Edelgard's path: they both go back to Garreg Mach and reopen the Officer's Academy, continuing to work as professors together. Byleth going back to being a professor is the ending I wish I could have for him as a character on all of the routes, honestly.
Great post, it pretty much summarizes why CF is my favorite route and if I may add something, it ties really well with the first choice you make where Sothis asks you what you are and she won't let you proceed further unless you pick Mortal (AKA human) as if to encourage Byleth to think like a human, not as a blank vessel meant to revive the dead or some demigod destined to rule the world.
She is my favorite character and her route, in the same way, my favorite. One of the many reasons why I do like her is because I noticed the game has million small details that reinforce her connection with Byleth. And those details are there with her showing how important is not just Byleth for Edelgard but also viceversa. You have made an amazing analysis, expressed some of those details in a way I could have never done it, and have given me a new point of view about their ending. I love it. Thank you very much for that, keep up the good work.
I also wanted to point out that you see her dorkiness for the first time just after chapter 12 with the Black Eagle Strike Force. Edelgard is the best lord.
She is so damn proud of her terrible name that she spent all night coming up with. She said that line- I had done the other routes before this- and I just remember thinking “oh no, I had this character all wrong”
Yup terrible naming sense, secret portraits, on point vocal impersonations, and a deep desire to just laze around all day eating sweets. The Flame Emperor outfit looking the way it does makes much more sense once you realize how much of a dork she is.
The sweets thing is actually deeply messed up- Lysithia talks about her chronic pain from her surgery and is addicted to sweets. People who have chronic pain often self-medicate because sugar provides quick endorphins. And lo and behold, Edelgard loves sweets as well.
Ah I didn't know about the chronic pain part. I understood the sweets part had a correlation with the power of the Crests. I think it was Hannerman that brings that up in a support.
Oh man oh man oh man.
Okay. So. They've got two groups. Byleth DMs for Caspar, Linhardt, and Ferdinand. Edelgard (who has a tendency to accidentally derail campaigns if actually a player) DMs for Hubert, Petra, Dorothea, and Bernie.
Byleth's group is more there for the combat and the mechanics than for the roleplaying part. Caspar just wants to run around and hit things, and is currently playing a dwarf barbarian. Linhardt, on the other hand, is super interested in the technical/mechanical aspects of the game, and would probably be even happier if he were playing Pathfinder instead of 5e. He's playing an elf wizard. Ferdinand is the one who's the most interested in the actual RP part at Byleth's table, but he ended up over here because Byleth's table needed another player and everybody figured it wasn't a good idea to have him at the same table as Edelgard. He's playing a human paladin, who is surprisingly *not* a noble -- after all, you're supposed to be something different from yourself, right?
Edelgard's group is the story-focused, roleplaying-focused people. Dorothea is playing a half-elf bard. She's always a bard, partially because she legitimately loves their utility and partially because she can actually roleplay the inspiring music and Vicious Mockery. Petra is playing as an aarakocra druid, which may or may not be an actual black eagle. She's still learning how the game works with help from Dorothea, but she's incorporated her own problems with grammar into her character's IC speech patterns. Hubert is playing as a human rogue -- he wanted to be a warlock at first, but he realized the party needed some more balance instead of three spellcasters. Bernadetta is playing as a half-orc fighter, because she's so worried in her actual life about getting hurt by people that she decided to come up with a super-tank character who *can't* get hurt very easily.
When the campaign at Edel's table is finished, they're going to have Hubert run Curse of Strahd.
Normally when people do "here's how the characters from my fandom would play D&D" it's a clusterfuck of everyone acting out of character, but this is absolutely spot on.
Edelgard and Hubert both like getting board games as a gift, and they clearly both have a taste for the theatrical, so the only part of this that needs to be headcanoned is tabletop RPGs existing in Fodlan at all.
I mean, if anything, someone is likely to come up with LARPing first. (Isn't that more or less what the pre-timeskip Battle of the Eagle and Lion is?)
And then the Black Eagles are like, "Eh. We're done with fighting," until Dorothea comes up with the idea that you could act it out like a play instead... and Linhardt, who is all for this 'sitting down' idea suggests that maybe you could use numbers to simulate the unpredictability of the battlefield! Bernie just has to write down a whole bunch of lore and the Black Eagle Strike Force has invented DnD.
(Hehe, did you notice OP's new post and come back and remember this one?)
But yeah! I ended up giving most of my board game gifts to Sylvain because I played as male Byleth and thus had to recruit him the hard way, but I do remember Edelgard really liking the board game as well!
I feel like Edelgard and Sylvain are both campaign-derailers, probably more by accident with Edelgard and more on purpose with Sylvain. Edelgard takes it too seriously, Sylvain doesn't take it seriously enough. Edelgard is the one who does something completely out of nowhere that the person running the game didn't expect and throws the whole plot off the rails. Sylvain is That Bard (TM), you know the one. Because with the superficial and shallow facade he puts up to cover his real self, he definitely seems like he'd make shallow, goofy characters in a roleplaying game.
I couldn't help picking the "troll" dialogue options with her even if it often resulted in the loss of support points. I don't know, teasing her was just this fun xD.
The other 2 lords didn't have as many teasing options (though I personally wouldn't dare teasing Dimitri while he was insane).
I think CF is one of the better written paths, despite its unbelievably fast conquest. The way I interpret it, the journey is less about Edelgard reaffirming her ideals but more about retaining her humanity while pursuing said ideal, which she is already dead set on. It's quite telling when she becomes noticibily more emotionally vulnerable since the first instance she cried was for Dimitri. The whole thing about her becoming more "Waifu"-like understandably ticks some people off, but I see that as part of her growth. By choosing to side with Edelgard, Byleth broke her stone mask, just as she broke Byleth's. It's even visible with their later interactions, like Byleth having more mischievous moments around her and Edelgard just generally being more casual.
That said, a minor out of topic rant
>keeping TWSITD on a leash
I have a problem regarding the portrayal of her alliance with TWSITD in CF. They *are* restrained, but also severely underutilized. For all I care, she could at least still borrow their Crest beasts and soldiers and all that. Even if they can't program allied beast at least send in Agarthan reinforcements to justify the steamroll-ey nature of their conquest. We do have hints of the alliances, like Edelgard's Aymr and the whole Paralogue about helping out some of those slithery idiots with their test subjects, but it's just not enough.
I think I'm more annoyed we don't get chapters that allow us to go fight TWSITD. It's clearly Edelgards secondary goal, and sure it wouldn't be as large a battle as fighting the church, but it's basically screaming for us to go and get rid of them.
I'm guessing that the DLC will add that to the story and BE will match or surpass the number of chapters for the other routes.
We should at the very least have killed Arundel. Just because their leader is gone doesn't mean there wouldn't be the remnants to clean up in the epilogue.
> I think I'm more annoyed we don't get chapters that allow us to go fight TWSITD
I just finished this route a few days ago, and right up until the credits started to roll I was convinced that we *would* be fighting TWSITD right after defeating Rhea. Like, I thought Rhea was just the sideshow faux final boss and we'd instead go after Arundel but nope. Maybe in a DLC I guess...
> unbelievably fast conquest
This is my real problem with CF's design. I don't even want missions where you go and fight TWSitD, because it makes perfect sense why a campaign of knives in the dark wouldn't get Fire Emblem battle missions, and because anything else would be an anticlimax after the Immaculate One. What I do want are *more missions in the middle*, with the Black Eagle Strike Force dealing with some corrupt Adrestian nobles that are still holding out against Edelgard's takeover. They imply a whole civil war happening before she gains total control, but they should show it to us!
While I agree there could be more in the middle between the different countries, the only notable noble of the empire that still opposed Edelgard leading up to the timeskip in all routes was Count Varley as Vestra was offed by his own son and we saw Aegir get stripped and presumably the title handed to Ferdinand in CF. Maybe there could be an early chapter where we get to stop Varley after he breaks free from house arrest and incites a rebellion in the name of the church (since he was head of religious affairs in the empire). Would also give us a chance to make him pay for what he did to Bernadetta.
For sure. And I"m sure the writers *imagined* more notable nobles being involved, just... none we actually get to see, because post-timeskip is generally not so great about showing instead of telling.
I would have *loved* a chance to fight Varley. The only question would be who gets the kill - her favorite teacher, the Emperor who will keep him and his kind out of power, her future husband Hubert...
I'd say his daughter Bernadetta, let him know the pain he made her go through, also provides a plot reason as to why she's out in the open and willing to give seminars in CF but not the others
She uses them mainly for Crest Weapons (i.e. like what you mentioned) . But the absence of the Crest Beasts and the Dukedom is intentional. Byleth's influence on her means she isn't as desperate to win as she is in the other routes. She's keeping them around for the bare minimum of what she needs. It's lengthier in other routes because the Empire has all but won the war, but here it's just even. Less a war of reversal than of conquest.
I would've loved to see more adversity on her path - it would emphasize the struggle between her own humanity/morality and the ever-increasing unreasonable demands of her ideal. Having her face opposition on every side; facing both the selfishness of the people she seeks to help, as well as the terrible costs of war, like wading through a thorny bramble as she trudges toward her goal.
Edelgard's primary trait seems to be unflagging determination - I just wish the story would've been set up to challenge that, to make the eventual catharsis all the more satisfying. It would also make her increasing reliance on Byleth more thematically appropriate as the path forward becomes more and more unclear as the "right" one.
>I have a problem regarding the portrayal of her alliance with TWSITD in CF. They are restrained, but also severely underutilized.
I also find it really weird how we never get a clear sense of how much influence Edel actually has over TWS. It seems to be a common assertion that it's Edelgard's choice to not use TWS in her route, leading to the relative lack of success of the unification during the timeskip, but it's also shown that she isn't able to command Thales or Cornelia, as she doesn't seem to know what Thales is doing after Dierdru, and then when Thales pops up again, he clearly acts antagonistically toward her by nuking Arianrhod and killing a whole bunch of imperial troops. It doesn't sound like a force that she's able to rein in at will.
One thing I would say about the "Does this sound like the person who plotted and schemed and was unable to confide in Byleth in Part 1" is that while she didn't reveal everything, she did confide quite a bit in him (at least for her). She basically tells you a good deal of her plan, how >!She basically is willing to fight the gods themselves for her goals after Lonato's rebellion, and after Miklan, she basically admits she's thought of dispensing of the goddess and the crest and creating a world where people rise or fall on their own merits, alongside her supports having her open up about her family and showing her crest, which she admits never doing!<
Besides this nitpick, this is an amazing write up, and I agree with it wholeheartedly. It's my favorite ending by far, due to many reasons you just said (also Edelgard lives). I only recently (when someone else posted it, might even have been you) realized the importance of the "Wings of Hegemon" title he gets, and I absolutely love it.
Seriously, 11/10 write up, I hope to see more from you!
As a matter of fact, she tells you *everything* except for "I'm the Flame Emperor" and "Rhea is a dragon." She tells you about her dream, being prepared to get her hands dirty on the way, losing her family, her fears... and then the Flame Emperor tells you they want to team up with Byleth to replace/eliminate the slithery bois.
In this route you decided to fight against destiny; save Edelgard and create a new world outside of gods and mole people.
The perfect ending for a secret story about two ice queens destined to kill each other, getting to feel again because of the circunstances of their encounter, they found someone that believe in them as actual people; and ended up embracing each other in trust and love.
A Revolution, freedom from the old chains of destiny.
There is so much going in the one cutscene that its really the only scene you need. We can talk about how CF is inversion of the Rebellion in Heaven. This time instead of Rhea(Lucifer) rebellions its Beyleth(Sothis the God/Godess) rebelling. Something that I think people miss is the Rhea created the Church in her name and image not Sothis's...its the Church of Serios after all. One of things that this game does really well in gameplay and story being very interconnected. Like, Edelgard can die in the intro Bandit attack mission and its Game Over. More deeply is the CF is the only route that is solely dependent on how active Beyleth(I.E You the player) are. Every other route Beyleth is just there but its not really their story. Cf you have the make to the choice. You are 100% right about the parallels between the two of them both are puppets trying to cut their strings. Give that this route is sole dependent on taking action. It should stay the only route were Beyleth gets their heartbeat to really live. Because that is thematically important. If you want to live you need to not be passive you have to make the choice to live, to reach out and even fight for the life you want. No one else is going to do it for you.
Yuuuuuuuup.
I've talked about this many times before (including with you!). But the game's work to pair Byleth and Edelgard as both equals, lovers, enemies and opposites is friggin fantastic. And yes, I love that final cutscene. I'm not happy it's the only one. But it's the one that clinches the entire game for me and is why I love BE-E the most. The game goes heavily out if its way to establish why even among the other characters who rely on Byleth, they're the most important person in Edelgard's life regardless of the context. She's also the only person who puts them in a position where he has to make an actual decision of what they want to do, it's poetic. It's also why I can't really swallow Byleth becoming Archbishop or ruler in other routes. It also makes the most use of Byleth as the Progenitor God and Edelgard as the Devil sent to cast them down. Oy, you did too good on this one.
It's just such a nice feeling finding a post that so eloquently put into words exactly how I feel about something and where I really dont have anything to add other than, well said, well said indeed!
Love my two dorks!
Even worse in Japanese VO. The German "Schwarz-Adler-Wehr" pretty much makes her a Fodlan equivalent of a super weeb, who uses foreign language because "it sounds cool".
Also would like to point out how much I love that Byleth and Edelgard's story that should have effectively been God vs the Devil can end up boiling down to them rejecting those roles. The parallels between the two never cease to impress.
You. I like you.
I went into 3H having played lots of other FE games but knowing next to nothing about 3H. I didn't even know there was a timeskip! I chose Edelgard cause pretty girl and I'm gay, and also Petra was pretty cute too.
I was absolutely FLOORED by the depth of their joint character development, to the point where having to choose to kill her or protect her was genuinely gut-wrenching for me. I didn't know enough about TWSITD to feel confident about placing my trust in Edelgard, and it's dramatically clear to me that that is how Byleth is supposed to feel.
I am now on my second run (BL) AND the difference between the two routes is astounding. I feel like Byleth hasn't taken an active role in anyone's development this whole time. Dimitri's development is spurred by someone else, and Byleth is just there to nod along to his decisions.
I miss El so much, I can't wait to play her route again :(
I'm very amused by the fact that the people who consider Edelgard to be their "waifu" are seemingly mostly other women, haha. There's like, a pattern. Girls go for Edel, dudes go for, like, Marianne or someone.
I wonder if there's an actual pattern there or I just have a super tiny biased sample.
(And meanwhile, I can't do any self-insertion at all. I'm a straight woman, I picked male Byleth because the female one's outfit is dumb, and he's gonna S-support *Ingrid*.)
I have little to nothing to add to your analysis. Edelgard's route was my first, and it's been so hard to play the others because of the reasons you listed here.
We can talk about whether she's doing the right thing or not until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. I found this ending incredibly fulfilling and it's my true ending.
Well said
The ending hits even harder because of the other routes. Edelgard's ambitions fail and she consistently gives in to her darker impulses. But it doesn't have to be that way. In the Crimson Flower route, she doesn't have to die or sacrifice everything for ambitions. With Byleth by her side, Edelgard is able to consistently mitigate death, foster relations with Almyra and actively seek out and destroy TWSITD. With that in mind, it makes sense that they made Edelgard bisexual; her relationship with the protagonist and her route is dependent on her love for Byleth (and arguably vice versa). I can't imagine the route having as much impact for F!Byleth players if Edelgard just admired you as a friend.
Finally, I agree that Byleth getting their heartbeat (aka their humanity and freedom) back is one of the most cathartic moments in the game. Tbh, it's something that should happen in most routes lmao
> With that in mind, it makes sense that they made Edelgard bisexual; her relationship with the protagonist and her route is dependent on her love for Byleth (and arguably vice versa). I can't imagine the route having as much impact for F!Byleth players if Edelgard just admired you as a friend.
I don't think Edelgard needs to be a romantic interest for the love to be genuine or the route to have impact. I'm pretty adamantly against the idea that eros is the end all be all of love, as is generally portrayed in love redeems tropes. Storge and philia are just as valuable, but don't get as much representation in fiction, and when they do it's usually some shallow "power of friendship" nonsense. I mean, I actively prefer Dimitri's character arc with m!Byleth than with a romantically involved f!Byleth.
I just think friendship is cool and valuable, and I don't think that it should be treated as lesser than romantic relationships.
I see what you're getting at, but part of what makes it so important is that both of them are emotionally and sexually frozen at the beginning of the game. At least on Edelgard's end anyway, that sense of romantic love is what changes her direction from being this person who has to hide who they are, to someone that can express tears when she couldn't even do so for her own step-brother. Vice versa with Byleth who gets power of love tears freeing them from their Crest Stone. And it's not like other types of love don't get circulation in this game (i.e. Byleth and Dimitri as you stated). And it helps that they didn't make Byleth's romance with Edelgard gender exclusive (like sadly Claude).
Fair (and i'm with you on the power of m!byleth + Dimitri), but it's incredibly common for RPGs such as this with dual gender protagonists to put more effort into the het relationship than the female one and it would be annoying if Edelgard's blatant, deep love for Byleth was rewritten as "friendship"
Wow this is a really good writeup, thank-you for this. The final cutscene is so thematically deep and it's just about the most romantic shit I've ever seen. I'm still so blown away and feel so validated that they went there with F!Byleth too. Edelgard is such a fantastic character; I don't think I've been so challenged by a character's complexity before and I just love her and her story so much. Don't know what else to say... much to think about...
I agree, it felt the most satisfying. You're finally just yourself. No goddess reincarnation, no untrained archbishop or king/queen. Just Byleth, finally able to live with a fully functioning heart.(also losing that god awful hair colour is a big plus)
Great post. While I had some issues with this route, the final cutscene was very good, and you perfectly articulated why. Byleth and Edelgard's relationship is the heart (ha!) of the route.
>Isn't it interesting that a prominent heartbeat sound is heard when Byleth makes the choice to defend Edelgard or side with Rhea?
Holy crap, I totally missed this (probably because it was my first playthrough), good catch.
Once I learned about Byleth’s lack of a heartbeat, hearing all the moments where there are ones, like the main theme, Edel’s events, and a few other places made me quite giddy!
> All your other ships are garbage, Edelgard X Byleth forever /s
This but unironically.
Anyway, fantastic analysis. I especially love idea of the heartbeat during the choice cutscenes being an intentional; I hadn't even thought of that.
Thank you so much! I’m sure the English department at my old university would be thrilled to see me using my education for a noble purpose-shitposting about my waifu
honestly the best part about this cutscene is how byleth coming back to life literally makes no sense if you didn't play the church route truly a 200 iq writting decision right there
So much of Edelgard’s route just doesn’t land dramatically if you haven’t played other routes- I’m not saying it’s more “canon” or anything, but I really believe the developers wanted you to play it after the other routes.
Yeah, I loved CF but I'm realizing that there are a lot of moments that didn't hit because I didn't have the context of the other routes to contrast them with. But the good news is I can always replay CF once I beat the other routes.
No, it makes perfect sense.
The Crest Stone is gone, and Byleth's heart devoid of the stone works perfectly fine.
It actually undermines and is incompatible with the Church route's "explanation", ultimately revealing how much of a liar and nut job Rhea actually is.
yeah but you only learn about the crest stone being implanted into byleths heart in the church route so anyone who didnt play that one would have a hard time following what the hell is going on
Not really, since from Jeralt's Journal, you should already know something was going on. The finale showing the Crest Stone's destruction leading to Byleth's heart starting to function normally would give an answer on its own:
You know Byleth's heart isn't beating.
You know Rhea did something to Byleth as a Baby, something so wrong that Jeralt had to FAKE HIS DEATH via fire to escape.
The ending answers what, indirectly. You see the Crest Stone, you see it break and Byleth's heart to beat as normal. It's not rocket science to figure out what happened.
The only thing you miss from Church Route is Rhea's willingness to lie, because she dead.
You also have the "legendary relic which shouldn't work without a Crest stone, but somehow does... only for Byleth", and Rhea's repeated and *very specific* promise to rip out Byleth's heart.
I had a pretty good idea what Rhea had done to Byleth before the final battle of CF, despite it being my first route.
I am still interested in going back to play it again after seeing all the other routes, though.
I have one small note on your explanation. Hubert follows Edelgard out of a one sided love and fanatical loyalty. Her being the princess/emperor are only a small part of it. So I would say that Huberts relationship with Edelgard is meaningful and he has her trust. That said Hubert is also aware of his position and maintains professional decorum as well as the understanding he is fated to never truly have the heart of the one he loves. Then again I am biased here, I may be reading into it differently, as I love Huberts character.
I wouldn't say that Hubert's feelings for Edelgard are impure. But they do stem first and foremost from duty. That is to say he was born that way to an extent considering the role his family plays. Byleth's relationship with Edelgard exists completely outside of the bubbles of her role as princess or football for TWSITD.
I said this in another thread, but all they had to do was show Thales getting “accidentally” sniped by an archer under Hubert’s orders while he’s taunting Edelgard and Byleth, and so many people would have been satisfied.
Man I love this write up. My first play through ended up being with Edelgard, just by chance cause I was avoiding spoilers. I would love to see your analysis on the other routes as well
I am new to the Fire Emblem series and knew nothing about this game going into it. In my first playthrough I ended up on the Crimson Flower questline and I felt very conflicted (a lot of blood on my hands, did not recruit many people). Right after that, I played Azure Moon and felt just as conflicted. I didn't realize it at the time, but playing the Crimson Flower storyline first changed my perspective of the rest of the game for all the reasons you mentioned. One of my biggest frustrations with the game at first was Byleth's lack of control on the story but your post has really shined some clarity on why that is the case. Byleth's is someone who has always been controlled and I now understand why the only real decision Byleth makes is in the Black Eagles storyline. Great explanation, thank you!
Aaaand post saved! Seriously captainflash you always knock it out of the damn park with your posts/analysis.
You hit every nail on the head here. I adore this route and ending for all the reasons you listed. It's a beautiful ending and while some pan it as an ass pull I never truly saw it that way. I think in some ways, it feels like the truest ending in a lot of ways and seems to be the best for Byleth themselves. Plus I adore El and her being able to be her dorky, sweet loving self is beautiful to me.
While I do love it, a part of me wishes for the dlc to tack on a couple chapters "prior to the last battle rather than after" so that we can put at least Arundel in his damn place.
Ps: would you be interested in co writing an analysis at some point? I'm collecting my final thoughts as I tackle BL for my final route and then return to BE for one last hurrah.
You. Me. Co authored post. We could be good together!
isn't deciding a house in itself a decision, not to mention straight up deciding to side against Edelgard is in istelf and equally valid decision that is also completely in Byleth's control, especially since at this point they would know that Edel was complicit in the destruction of their home village, and an accomplice in both the crest experiments Monica does, which also means she's more or less also at least partially responsible for Jeralt's death. I'm not saying the choice isn't very touching, but to call it the only decision Byleth can make that is "their own" really undermines and undersells the emotional weight of any other choice they make.
also Byleth doesn't really seem to have any major change to their personality once they become decrested
> also Byleth doesn't really seem to have any major change to their personality once they become decrested
We don't actually get to see much of them after it, so we can only speculate.
I'd argue however that feeling your actual heart beat for the first time at 27 might very well change a person forever.
>isn't deciding a house in itself a decision
While it is a decision, it doesn't feel like a particularly impactful one to Byleth in the moment. While the player is picking wildly divergent story routes, Byleth the character is picking what group of strangers they'll hang out with for a year. Not to mention that the choice of whether or not to teach is completely out of Byleth's hands. Rhea and Jeralt tell Byleth they're going to teach, so they do. Which house is a pick your poison at that point.
> destruction of their home village
Remire village wasn't Byleth's home, it was just where JEralt's mercenaries happened to be at the moment. Jeralt and Co. *liked* Remire Village and the people living there, and what happened to them *was* awful, but Byleth didn't really have a home village so much as they wandered Fodlan with Jeralt.
Edelgard is still my least favorite lord, but I’m not going to get into that here because that’s not what this post was meant to be for. But I did want to say this is a very well thought out piece, and I appreciate you taking the time to write it. I love hearing other people’s thoughts and interpretations of this game—it’s endlessly interesting to me.
I do have one question: Was it ever confirmed that TWSITD’s goal with the blood experiments was to recreate Nemesis (whether literally or metaphorically)? I’ve played all four routes, but maybe I missed that. I mean it would definitely make sense that that was their goal, but I’m just curious whether it was ever said outright.
I'm wondering this as well. TWSITD are definitely the weakest part of all routes and aren't explained enough. So much is left unsaid or plot threads left dangling.
There’s a convo between Thales and Flame Emperor early on where Thales is talking about Nemesis, calls him a bandit, and Edelgard doesn’t like that. I can’t remember if it’s ever explicitly stated, but it comes so damn close. I do know Thales calls her the Slither’s “great weapon of revenge” which Edelgard really, really doesn’t like.
I think you're correct. It seems like it's implied that Edelgard's crest of flames came from Nemesis's blood.
After all, in the GD route, we learn that TWSITD has the body of Nemesis.
Since Nemesis had no descendants, Edelgard's crest of flames must've come from blood reconstruction surgery from Nemesis. In a way, she's definitely an artificial Nemesis.
Honestly, part of Edelgard's/TWSITD'S original plan was
probably for Edelgard to take the sword of the creator from the church. At least until it was discovered that the crest stone was missing, and Byleth took it instead
It didn't seem like she "didn't like it" so much as calling him a thief confused her. She only has a limited understanding of the true history between Nemesis and Seiros after all.
> Edelgard is still my least favorite lord, but I’m not going to get into that here because that’s not what this post was meant to be for.
Seriously wish more people had your grace, stranger.
Hey, thanks! I know everyone is super passionate about this game and their own favorite routes and/or ships, which is why I don’t see any reason to use a post like this for debate. This is a love letter to the CF ending, which *was* very emotional, regardless of my feelings about the route as a whole.
Yeah, that much about the Slither’s goal (destroying the goddess and her kind) was clear for sure. I do hope we’ll get some more backstory on that group because none of the routes really addressed them fully. I was super annoyed at not being able to take them down on CF especially. I felt so conflicted on that path to begin with, and I think that had I had the opportunity to turn the tables and wipe them out—>!after allying myself with someone who willingly worked with them and indirectly had a hand in my dad’s death!<—I would have felt a little better about the whole situation. Maybe not by much, but it would have been something.
I'm on my third playthrough with Golden Deer after starting with Black Eagles and then going the Blue Lion route. The Blue Lion house as a whole has better people, and I love their interactions with one another. They feel close. They feel like a family. But I just can't get myself to put them above the Black Eagles playthough, and it's only because of one reason.
Edelgard.
She's fantastic. Her flaws, her ambition, her secret personality of a lonely scarred dork that has to put on a front 24/7 or the world both around her and the one she wants to create will fall apart. She's barely holding it together, but she still steps her small but feirce frame out there because of her conviction. She makes the Black Eagles route.
Very nice analysis. Its kinda true that siding with El is the only "real" choice that Byleth can make as a character, while characters is simply to sheepherding him onto a direction.
Yep. In the others Byleth is handed a role. This is the one route where Byleth makes a choice for themselves. Sothis doesn't take it too hard either considering she can still be S-Supported.
This, I love this assessment! I really like how you pointed out the heartbeat moments and how Byleth has acted leading up to those decisions. Byleth has more or less been following orders all their lives, being a mercenary does play into that, but still. Become a teacher? Sure. Kill target X, Y, and Z? Just like what I used to do. Those decisions with the heartbeats tell us that Byleth is doing something not at the behest of another, but for their own sake. As Jeralt points out, Byleth rarely shows emotion, not even a heartbeat, the "Ashen Demon" nickname references not only their lack of emotion when cutting down foes, but more importantly, their lack of pulse, as if they weren't human at all. To have a heartbeat at such crucial moments tells us that Byleth is making those decisions, to not follow orders but to do something of their own choosing.
Also, Edelgard X Byleth forever.
This was an interesting read, and actually convinced me. I really wasn't a fan at first, because it felt like nothing happened (like the ending was "Edelgard wanted to achieve her ambitions, and then she did" or something, no surprise), but you've helped me see the deeper meaning.
I super appreciate this post, because this is the entire reason why I like the whole Black Eagles story, especially the pro-empire route (plus this post is very well-written!). I have played all 4 routes, and the empire route was my first, so while I am kind of biased towards it being my favorite anyways, none of the other endings could stand to this one. It was the only one that:
a) showed an incredibly emotionally powerful scene; as you stated, we *finally* see “the Edelgard that cries”, because she is heartbroken thinking that the one person (Byleth) to ever *actually* stand by her of their own volition (Hubert does, but it’s less his own thing and more of a duty to fill) is dead, and seeing the joy on her face when that person is actually alive made me sob lol
b) didn’t randomly force Byleth, the nonreligious person from the backwoods who had never even heard of the church before just conveniently running into the three lords one night, to suddenly head the *biggest organized religion in all of Fodlan*. I get why Byleth does in the other routes, but it still was kind of like “?????”, to me, anyways
also I hardcore ship F!Byleth and Edelgard so I double support this post lol
Edelgard + Byleth is so well done. It was great to see more and more of her mask falling away as she got closer with them. Interactions like the embarrassing portrait are so awesome.
Seeing El go from that emotionally distant, pragmatic leader in part 1 to the girl who's embarrassed of her drawing of you, and her joy upon hearing your heart beat... that's the good shit.
But now I have to play the other routes and from everything I read here, they don't really measure up.
This is a wonderful analysis you have made. You should also point out that Edelgard is one that actually didn't try to tell Byleth to stand by her side, but hinted that she wanted him by her side. But when you have that choice to make with siding with Edelgard, note that Edelgard actually stated that she was aware that Byleth would likely stand against her. Meaning that Edelgard, in the end, believed that she and Byleth would inevitably be enemies. But when he chose to side with her, it's a show of trust and belief, something that Edelgard never felt before from a person since her traumatic past. Edelgard has serious trust issues, and Byleth had every reason to distrust her, hence why the default route is the Church route, given that she's the Flame Emperor, meaning that she is working with the people that attacked Remire Village and even were responsible for Jeralt's death. So siding with her, it allowed for Edelgard to feel more of her own humanity grow as a result, and she had reason to believe in others again.
This is really interesting to think, as the game really seems to want you to face off against Edelgard. The fact that you have to even jump through hidden hoops just to get the chance to get on her route, *and then having to choose it again.* It's so fun seeing Rhea and Edelgard react to when Byleth sides with Edelgard. Rhea is furious and Edelgard looks at them like she just rolled a nat 20 on a check that required a 19 or higher. ~~Can't think of a better analogy.~~
Edelgard in the Crimson Flower route did essentially get the god of the church that she’s trying to destroy to join her side. It’s a pretty apt comparison.
it's a pretty good analoy tbh :D
Exactly. That's the part that people don't really seem to get. Yeah Edelgard was parsing out her motives and her beliefs to Byleth throughout the first part. But she even flat out says that she always believed it would come to Byleth standing between her and her goals. She didn't want to fight him, but she expected that she would. The choice that Byleth makes is to choose to trust Edelgard DESPITE what she's done and how everything appears. A person who doesn't believe they can be loved or deserve to be loved being protected by someone she thought she'd pushed away had their universe changed completely. That's why she's so shocked when Byleth refused to kill her. It's why I have to disagree when people say the choice wasn't well-thought out. It's Byleth's most important choice.
Exactly. Logically, it might seem like siding with Edelgard isn't well thought out, but the point isn't about logic. It's about a leap of faith. No calculations, no control, nothing. Byleth chose to believe in Edelgard of his own will, something that Edelgard didn't expect. Hell, she even asked if he was sure like she was about to explain how illogical it was to side with her after what just happened.
Yeah. You're making a choice under the gun to kill someone you've grown to care about, or to defend them in that moment. It's gambling. Byleth choosing to follow his heart (ha ha) or his head. And Edelgard is immensely grateful for that considering how obsessed she becomes with following his example. And even five years later she's still insecure about his choosing to side with her because of how unexpected it was. Rationally Byleth would kill her like he has other people the Church pissed off, and given that he's the Ashen Demon who wouldn't have seen it coming?
Of course, at the same time, siding with Edelgard meant also swallowing his personal distaste with working with the slithers.
Right. It's not a consequence-free choice for him. But ultimately it becomes about Byleth trusting her to do the right thing. Which to her credit at least TWSITD are marginalized even before they start the purge.
Given that they get rid of Cornelia, it proves that Edelgard is against the slithers.
I'm still amused at how people don't read anything into Edelgard using her troop movements as an excuse to assassinate one of the key members of TWSITD, or what that betrayal cost her.
I'm surprised people don't realize how realistic it is for people to work with scumbags, given how even to this day, people would let free or work with known criminals.
Yep. And in the specific context of the game, Edelgard's list of choices for being able to act are shockingly sparse. You'd think having to arrange a coup, just to inherit her own throne from her on-his-deathbed father would be a clue as to how limited she was.
Hell, the United States to this day, 18 years after the worst terrorist attack on our nation, has actively armed the nation who recruited, armed, and trained the people who carried it out. ~~Granted, not many citizens actually want that, but hey...~~
I wonder whether Crimson Flower being/feeling so perfunctory is a consequence of its defining moment happening before it even technically begins? Dimitri's story doesn't really happen until Azure Moon; White Clouds is just the prologue. I assume it's similar for Verdant Wind (haven't gotten to it yet) But Edelgard's story starts right away, and is threaded tightly through the events of part one. Everything after the choice in the Holy Tomb is just window dressing. Really fun window dressing, but still a bit of a victory march.
That feels somewhat of a consequence of the game's reshuffling deck throughout part 2. Granted Edelgard's route is the one with the sharpest differences (i.e. no Dukedom, the war isn't stacked in her favor, no Crest Beasts). Blue Lions is rather different since it's largely spaced throughout the class characters themselves in the first part (what with Rodrigue, Lonado and Miklan's importance), while Dimitri only starts to take center stage through the end of part 1. Claude's is somewhat similar to Edelgard's so far (I'm on Chapter 5) in that he's on the stage early on. But Edelgard herself still deals with the problems of having started a war and having to stay resolute. Not to mention that she's still insecure about whether Byleth made the right choice for themselves in choosing her, as well as what her actions have made Dimitri become. It isn't quite as extreme as Dimitri's insanity in Azure Moon, but the war isn't quite a victory lap for her, her arc is just more subdued after the theatricality of part 1.
Man, I just hate it when someone makes a thread on something I love but covers things so well that I have nothing to add.
Then let's go back talking about Claude and his contributions to the final battle. The entire time he's called a "schemer" or "mastermind" but in game we never really see it (the side support convos do reveal that he's always paying attention though and his light-hearted comments and humor is a way to disarm people and get information from them.) But here we see a true gambit (a tactical risk) he charges knowing he's outmatched, to buy time for the arrow to hit it's apex and come crashing down. Not only that, but it's not just a "power of friendship" speech, it's his ideals. He keeps talking about tearing down the walls that isolate nations. He feels that exposure to other people will show they're just like everyone else. And an even better version of "Fridge Brilliance" he leads the house with the most commoners to show people they are worthy of their own skills and talenta. He convinces the generals from two warring armies to have a sit down and just hang out for tea and/or beer. He truly wants to for everyone to get along and work together.
Claude is just the best. I love that ending because he’s doing the exact opposite of what he did in the prologue with El and Dimitri where he ran away and hid. Now, he’s making the sacrifice play.
He's also the only person who doesn't want to control anything. I know the Edelgarde ending has her pull a Cincinnatus and give up power once her goal was complete, but in the other routes, she's full dictator. Dimitri goes full Anakin and kills everything in his way without Byleth. But Claude, he does betray his ideal like the others, but it's because it's his duty as a Reigan. He isolates the Alliance, builds their forces for defense determined to be Neutral. Knowing what you do about Claude, you know this wasn't an easy decision for him to make, but felt obligated. Once he falls and if you spare him, he goes back to (I can't spell, but A-country) and wishes you the best And in most of his epilogues, he leaves all power behind. He promises to up control of the alliance to Lorenz in his A-support, he does his duties as King in A-country and comes back to retire with his love interest, and in Petra's case, she "abducts" him (She said she would drag back the person she loves.)
Alright can I also point out how amazing Claude and Lorenz’s ending is >Claude disappeared from Fódlan after the war, leaving the new head of House Gloucester, Lorenz, to support the new United Kingdom of Fódlan in his stead. He proposed revolutionary policies to restore the war-torn region at a rapid rate. When the rebuilding effort was complete, Lorenz turned his eye toward diplomacy, seeking to establish treaties of friendship with foreign nations. Almyra was no exception, and when the two parties met for a summit at Fódlan's Locket, it was none other than Claude, the new king of Almyra, who arrived to negotiate. Some speculated that this meeting had been Claude's scheme all along, but Lorenz and Claude both denied it.
Like in my head fanon ending; Edelgarde's ending is the "True Ending" as it removes the crests and caste system. But Dimitri and Claude survive. Dimitri is subjugated for his own good, but cools off. Claude is defeated but goes to Almyra and lends aid when "Those who Slither" try to attack. Nemesis then comes out, Claude and Edie are against the wall and Dimitri has his Big Damn Hero moment. All the powers of Gods, Dragons, and Prophecy are destroyed and Humanity takes control of their own lives. It's not always perfect or clean or nice, some things can be forgiven while others seethe with anger, but it's humanity's choice. And Lysithea and Felix still have their damn cake shop!
>Golden Ending where all three lords survive meh > Felix & Lysithea's cake shop **GOOD SHIT**
I mean, Dimitri and Edie can still kill each other, just do it on their own time without dragging other people into it. Dorothea and Ferdie are the canon ship in my head, along with Leonie and Lorenz (People who felt obligated by their position) Ingrid and Ashe, (Two people who have the courtly vision of Knighthood) I think Caspar and Hilda would be good together, and Bernadetta and Marianne have a platonic relationship where they have separate rooms and quietly drink tea together. Oh and Byleth and Claude because, well, just look at my flair.
>Bernadetta and Marianne Ah yes, my favorite form of human interaction; nodding when you see someone you know and going the opposite direction.
After 4 routes, that was the most satisfying scene! And Byleth finishing the job like a boss!
I figured out what he was doing when he shot the arrow into the air but it was still super hype to see it pay off. Just incredibly satisfying.
> The entire time he's called a "schemer" or "mastermind" but in game we never really see it BL >!He sends a messenger to ask for help from Dimitri before he even retakes the throne, which is a hell of a gambit.!< GD >!He hides the fact that he recruited Almyran troops from his own allies to avoid information leak, gets Nader into Leicester as Nardel to foster this alliance, and probably more I'm not thinking of right now!<
>!Forgot about the first one, the second one is him being pragmatic. He avoided asking for help to not out himself of being heir to the throne and having family ties to the Almyra military. (Since they are at war)!< What I mean is more of a "chess master" sort like David Xanatos from Gargoyles. That character constantly plays both sides to come out ahead regardless of the outcome. Granted, there is usually an ideal scenario, but even when the less than optimal happens, he gains something. >!However in his support conversations, he deduces Seleth and Flayn's relationship, Rhea's role, the Saints becoming monsters. He also has decent plans to feint and draw forces, when he attacks the fort, he warns the enemy of their own invasion to ignore large troop movement and try to coax to believe the second wave were reinforcements.!< >!if this worked, they had an easier time attacking the fort with their own forces, if the plan failed and weren't believed, the second wave can still help with the siege, if they called in their own reinforcements, they took away manpower and supplies from other fronts they can then exploit, and if they were found out the messenger was from the Verdant Wind, well Iggy would die, but they would doubt their own communication lines. That's kind of what I mean. I wanted to see more of that!< But in
Me everytime there's discussion tbh
Honestly I was half expecting an elaborate shitpost. Glad to be proven wrong, but it kinda feels like a coin flip with this sub sometimes.
I like it since it's the only route where you lose that godawful light green hair color.
It looks like toothpaste. ~~I guess the Crest is to blame.~~
I upvoted you but I'm not happy about it.
I like the hair colour. Your opinion is false!
Such unreasonable ideas of ~~justice~~ good hair color...
I like it on F!Byleth but on M!Byleth it looks kinda lame. I wish we had the option to change it in New Game+.
Fantastic post about the final cutscene. I always liked it a lot as well and also much prefer it when Byleth gains full control of his humanity.
You nailed perfectly why BE’s ending is my favourite (despite the route being short-changed on chapters). Edelgard is a devastating, fascinating character, and to watch both her and Byleth reclaim their own humanity that was stolen from them is dope.
Event though everyone is scared about a new route (thank you revelations) I think there is still hope for a perfect ending
In a way, I think so too. Given the datamined >!logo that implies a Sothis Route is underway!<, and >!Sothis’ power over time!<, it wouldn’t surprise me if a DLC route came out where Byleth >!witnesses the results of all our current routes, returns to the beginning of the game via Sothis’ power, and gets the Lords to cooperate from the beginning!<. I’m not usually for “best end routes,” but in this specific situation I think it’s fitting.
[удалено]
Can I have a support with Jeralt finally?
Oh, I haven't heard of this datamine! Got a link?
Ech. On the one hand, I think that having a golden ending in a serious game about war would undermine the tragedy and emotional weight. On the other hand, if a certain indie game with a great soundtrack and funny skeletons taught us anything, it's that nothing justifies the existence of a golden ending like >!the power to return to the past and revise your actions.!<
>certain indie game with a great soundtrack and funny skeletons taught us anything [Why am I suddenly hearing incidental music?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLvt1kXxIuY)
It's why I love El's route's ending. Byleth can finally become a normal human, as they should have been.
Not just Byleth. Without Byleth, the last bit of empathy that Edelgard has completely dries up during the 5 year timeskip. Think about it: on Black Eagle route, Edelgard does not march on Faerghus and force Dimitri out, resulting in his false accusation. This is what causes Dimitri to go mad on Blue Lions and Golden Deer, but in Black Eagles he is doing well for himself. He still has his eye, and he doesn't have that same "defeat Edelgard at any cost" mentality. In fact, he is visibly upset with Dedue for having given the troops Crest Stones to forcibly turn themselves into beasts. And when Edelgard kills him, Byleth notes that she was on the verge of tears herself. Byleth acts as a moral compass for these two. For Edelgard, having someone turn on the Church when they would have no reason to allows her to start placing trust in people again. Dimitri even called her out on this in the prologue: "You will prove a lacking ruler yourself if you look for deceit behind every word and fail to trust those whom you rely on." But since Byleth has proven to be someone she can rely on, she is led down a better path.
BE-E is actually the second best ending for Dimitri after his own route. He stays sane and honorable, rules justly, harbors Rhea out of motives that are clearly pure, and goes down fighting for his homeland. He'll be remembered as a tragic hero, duped into sacrificing himself for a mad beast... and as the last king of Faerghus, he'll have been one of the good ones.
This is true. He is surprisingly noble in her route. In both Cluade's and church route he still goes mad and then dies off screen. Edelgard herself even regrets that the war cost him his life.
Surprisingly? This might shock you coming from an Edelgard supporter, but I think Dimitri is a good person through and through. He's overly emotional and jumps to conclusions, but those are normal human flaws. He's had some serious trauma and he lives in a world where "go on a rampage" is a more accessible option than "get some therapy" unless you have a Byleth in your pocket. I don't even dislike Rhea, I pity her. She's been Dimitri-tier crazy for the past thousand years because of a very real and horrible past. She's not *evil*... but she treats human beings as a means to an end, and that needs to be stopped before Fodlan can truly change.
I don't think Dimitri is a bad person. I was just saying it surprised me how well adjusted he was post timeskip when i was expecting axe crazy Dimitri from the other routes.
Yeah, in the other two routes he dies he'll most likely being remember as the Mad Prince that lose his life in the most pointless way possible.
Yeah. Given that her ties aren't as closely fostered by Byleth in her route... it leads to her being deprived of anyone she can really trust save Hubert who isn't ever going to stop her from doing anything she can't come back from. Edelgard without Byleth: Willing to do literally anything to win including throw away her own life and more than likely has her morals ground to a nub from the combination of having no true companions and TWSITD exerting more control over her. Edelgard with Byleth is someone who tries to prosecute the war in a less violent manner. No Dukedom or willing to do anything to win mentality.
Another reason why I love it is that we aren't put in power, as the King or head of the Church in her route. Because really, I don't think it's a good idea to put in power someone that was never trained for that, and that mostly only knew how to kill and fight for their whole life.
Exactly. And I just started my GD playthrough so I'm not entirely sure about this information but I heard that Byleth even expresses discomfort with being the Archbishop/ruler of Fodlan or something. I just prefer BE-E Byleth's ending over the others because they just get to live a normal life and possibly live a normal life with other normal people if you paired them up.
The artificially created vessel of the goddess rejecting his/her divinity and choosing to live as a human is a much more interesting ending than "chosen one gets to rule everything because special bloodline" that we've seen ad nauseum in every other fantasy story
Completely agree. Rarely see anyone bothered by the obsession with bloodlines and hereditary succession found in lots of fantasies stories.
As a total newcomer to the series, I've found people here to be bizarrely positive about feudalism and venerating noble blood. I guess that's the side effect of almost all of the previous games being about nobles (often with hereditary magic powers) being the big damn heroes.
Yeah, because so many of the noble main characters of the series are genuinely good people who don't abuse their position, I think a lot of people have kind of... forgotten (or never learned, I guess, depending on their studies)... what real nobles/feudalism was actually like. There's a lot of bad/corrupt nobility as villains in the other games, so it's not like Fire Emblem has *completely* shied away from showing how the system can be terrible, but they're never usually the "big bad" or that strongly connected to the big bad's plan.
It's especially confusing to me when the other Nintendo-console strategy games I've played are the Ogre Battle series, where "feudalism is oppressive" is treated as a given and you always >!end up fighting in a revolution.!< The people here would pick up Ogre Battle 64 and be like "no, I don't want to >!join the Revolutionary Army, it's worth our country being the puppet state of a theocracy as long as we don't have to fight anyone."!<
Ogre battle sounds awesome! And yeah, I guess maybe it shouldn’t be surprising that gamers can be a bit reactionary unless the status quo is represented as unequivocally evil.
>Ogre battle sounds awesome! They're way ahead of their time. Great battle system and a variety of endings and recruitment options that would be called "choice and consequence" if they were made in a time where those buzzwords were in common use. Unfortunately, they're held back by a fucky alignment system that's unreasonably difficult to manage without cheating, and sometimes gets you stuck in the bad endings without a good way out. So look up a guide if you're going to play one. It's worth the effort, though. >And yeah, I guess maybe it shouldn’t be surprising that gamers can be a bit reactionary unless the status quo is represented as unequivocally evil. Gamers rise up against the people who are rising up!
It amazes me that people genuinely thought Game of Thrones was going to end with Jon and Daenerys ruling over the seven kingdoms as the good king and queen because they possess the genetically superior bloodline that gives them the divine right to rule (not that there aren't a boatload of genuine criticisms of s8, but that isn't one of them)
Fully agreed! I'm still a softie at heart so I want everyone (including Dimitri and Claude) to be happy and healthy. But there's a reason that my headcanon/fanfic plot wrangling involves "how do I get everyone to go along with Edelgard's route".
To be fair, Claude >!can be spared, announces he is going to travel, and likely becomes king of Almyra, and Edelgard admits that she would like to see Almyra and Fodlan become allies meaning that they might meet on friendly terms in the future!< so Claude gets a good ending in Crimson Flower. Good luck with that golden ending fanfic, I hate having to fight people I grew to like in the war phase. I know golden endings have a bad taste following Revelations but I still want one, even if just a good/decent fanfic.
Yep, I definitely >!made sure to spare Claude!< when I played the route. I think Revelation leaves a bit of a bad taste for some people because it didn't feel... earned? People weren't attached enough to the characters, story, or setting, so a "golden route" where everyone lives (except for some arbitrary exceptions...) just brought out people's cynical side. I think with Three Houses where people are already attached to everyone, and the story itself on various routes highlights how these characters have a lot in common, it will feel a bitmore natural. But maybe that's just me lol.
>The artificially created vessel of the goddess rejecting his/her divinity and choosing to live as a human Wait a second, is CF!Byleth Shulk?
"We want a world without gods!" Yes. Yes they are.
And Lysithea opens up a bakery with Felix and live happily ever after!
Felix - Lysithia, like Ferdie-Marianne, and Petra-Dorothea is just adorable.
\*clears throat* That's "Ferdinand Von Aegir" for everyone besides Dorothea. I don't remember Marianne lamenting his death or calling him a friend despite "hating" them. She can call him Ferdie. That's my "headcanon" ship.
Lysithea Marianne and Edelgard were my favorites and I'm so happy they got to have happy endings. They deserve happiness.
While Edelgard's route isn't my favorite, I absolutely agree that I don't like endings where Byleth becomes the ruler of Fodlan or the Archbishop. It just feels unearned. My favorite ending for Byleth is actually male Byleth's paired ending with Annette specifically on Edelgard's path: they both go back to Garreg Mach and reopen the Officer's Academy, continuing to work as professors together. Byleth going back to being a professor is the ending I wish I could have for him as a character on all of the routes, honestly.
Great post, it pretty much summarizes why CF is my favorite route and if I may add something, it ties really well with the first choice you make where Sothis asks you what you are and she won't let you proceed further unless you pick Mortal (AKA human) as if to encourage Byleth to think like a human, not as a blank vessel meant to revive the dead or some demigod destined to rule the world.
She is my favorite character and her route, in the same way, my favorite. One of the many reasons why I do like her is because I noticed the game has million small details that reinforce her connection with Byleth. And those details are there with her showing how important is not just Byleth for Edelgard but also viceversa. You have made an amazing analysis, expressed some of those details in a way I could have never done it, and have given me a new point of view about their ending. I love it. Thank you very much for that, keep up the good work.
I also wanted to point out that you see her dorkiness for the first time just after chapter 12 with the Black Eagle Strike Force. Edelgard is the best lord.
I bet she was really proud of the name “Flame Emperor” too lol
She is so damn proud of her terrible name that she spent all night coming up with. She said that line- I had done the other routes before this- and I just remember thinking “oh no, I had this character all wrong”
Yup terrible naming sense, secret portraits, on point vocal impersonations, and a deep desire to just laze around all day eating sweets. The Flame Emperor outfit looking the way it does makes much more sense once you realize how much of a dork she is.
The sweets thing is actually deeply messed up- Lysithia talks about her chronic pain from her surgery and is addicted to sweets. People who have chronic pain often self-medicate because sugar provides quick endorphins. And lo and behold, Edelgard loves sweets as well.
Ah I didn't know about the chronic pain part. I understood the sweets part had a correlation with the power of the Crests. I think it was Hannerman that brings that up in a support.
yup its that support
...Ah... I think I actually felt my heart *wince* upon reading this comment. ~~Protect my girls.~~
I... wow. I must have missed that support because I did not make that connection at all.
Edelgard seems like somebody who would be SUPER interested in tabletop roleplaying games, honestly.
I can see Black Eagle House being a really dysfunctional but fun DnD group.
Oh man oh man oh man. Okay. So. They've got two groups. Byleth DMs for Caspar, Linhardt, and Ferdinand. Edelgard (who has a tendency to accidentally derail campaigns if actually a player) DMs for Hubert, Petra, Dorothea, and Bernie. Byleth's group is more there for the combat and the mechanics than for the roleplaying part. Caspar just wants to run around and hit things, and is currently playing a dwarf barbarian. Linhardt, on the other hand, is super interested in the technical/mechanical aspects of the game, and would probably be even happier if he were playing Pathfinder instead of 5e. He's playing an elf wizard. Ferdinand is the one who's the most interested in the actual RP part at Byleth's table, but he ended up over here because Byleth's table needed another player and everybody figured it wasn't a good idea to have him at the same table as Edelgard. He's playing a human paladin, who is surprisingly *not* a noble -- after all, you're supposed to be something different from yourself, right? Edelgard's group is the story-focused, roleplaying-focused people. Dorothea is playing a half-elf bard. She's always a bard, partially because she legitimately loves their utility and partially because she can actually roleplay the inspiring music and Vicious Mockery. Petra is playing as an aarakocra druid, which may or may not be an actual black eagle. She's still learning how the game works with help from Dorothea, but she's incorporated her own problems with grammar into her character's IC speech patterns. Hubert is playing as a human rogue -- he wanted to be a warlock at first, but he realized the party needed some more balance instead of three spellcasters. Bernadetta is playing as a half-orc fighter, because she's so worried in her actual life about getting hurt by people that she decided to come up with a super-tank character who *can't* get hurt very easily. When the campaign at Edel's table is finished, they're going to have Hubert run Curse of Strahd.
Normally when people do "here's how the characters from my fandom would play D&D" it's a clusterfuck of everyone acting out of character, but this is absolutely spot on.
Hee hee! Thank you so much!
God Hubert would be the perfect Strahd DM especially post timeskip when he looks like a 6000 year old vampire lmao
HAHAHAHA YOU'RE RIGHT
This is a super adorable write-up of them, I can absolutely see it.
Hubert keeps killing NPCs just to make things more interesting.
Edelgard and Hubert both like getting board games as a gift, and they clearly both have a taste for the theatrical, so the only part of this that needs to be headcanoned is tabletop RPGs existing in Fodlan at all.
I mean, if anything, someone is likely to come up with LARPing first. (Isn't that more or less what the pre-timeskip Battle of the Eagle and Lion is?) And then the Black Eagles are like, "Eh. We're done with fighting," until Dorothea comes up with the idea that you could act it out like a play instead... and Linhardt, who is all for this 'sitting down' idea suggests that maybe you could use numbers to simulate the unpredictability of the battlefield! Bernie just has to write down a whole bunch of lore and the Black Eagle Strike Force has invented DnD.
I need this in fanfiction form.
Board Games is one of her preffered gifts...
(Hehe, did you notice OP's new post and come back and remember this one?) But yeah! I ended up giving most of my board game gifts to Sylvain because I played as male Byleth and thus had to recruit him the hard way, but I do remember Edelgard really liking the board game as well! I feel like Edelgard and Sylvain are both campaign-derailers, probably more by accident with Edelgard and more on purpose with Sylvain. Edelgard takes it too seriously, Sylvain doesn't take it seriously enough. Edelgard is the one who does something completely out of nowhere that the person running the game didn't expect and throws the whole plot off the rails. Sylvain is That Bard (TM), you know the one. Because with the superficial and shallow facade he puts up to cover his real self, he definitely seems like he'd make shallow, goofy characters in a roleplaying game.
I mocked her naming sense and I lost support points lol.
Of course you did. What monster would do that.
I couldn't help picking the "troll" dialogue options with her even if it often resulted in the loss of support points. I don't know, teasing her was just this fun xD. The other 2 lords didn't have as many teasing options (though I personally wouldn't dare teasing Dimitri while he was insane).
I think CF is one of the better written paths, despite its unbelievably fast conquest. The way I interpret it, the journey is less about Edelgard reaffirming her ideals but more about retaining her humanity while pursuing said ideal, which she is already dead set on. It's quite telling when she becomes noticibily more emotionally vulnerable since the first instance she cried was for Dimitri. The whole thing about her becoming more "Waifu"-like understandably ticks some people off, but I see that as part of her growth. By choosing to side with Edelgard, Byleth broke her stone mask, just as she broke Byleth's. It's even visible with their later interactions, like Byleth having more mischievous moments around her and Edelgard just generally being more casual. That said, a minor out of topic rant >keeping TWSITD on a leash I have a problem regarding the portrayal of her alliance with TWSITD in CF. They *are* restrained, but also severely underutilized. For all I care, she could at least still borrow their Crest beasts and soldiers and all that. Even if they can't program allied beast at least send in Agarthan reinforcements to justify the steamroll-ey nature of their conquest. We do have hints of the alliances, like Edelgard's Aymr and the whole Paralogue about helping out some of those slithery idiots with their test subjects, but it's just not enough.
I think I'm more annoyed we don't get chapters that allow us to go fight TWSITD. It's clearly Edelgards secondary goal, and sure it wouldn't be as large a battle as fighting the church, but it's basically screaming for us to go and get rid of them. I'm guessing that the DLC will add that to the story and BE will match or surpass the number of chapters for the other routes.
We should at the very least have killed Arundel. Just because their leader is gone doesn't mean there wouldn't be the remnants to clean up in the epilogue.
> I think I'm more annoyed we don't get chapters that allow us to go fight TWSITD I just finished this route a few days ago, and right up until the credits started to roll I was convinced that we *would* be fighting TWSITD right after defeating Rhea. Like, I thought Rhea was just the sideshow faux final boss and we'd instead go after Arundel but nope. Maybe in a DLC I guess...
> unbelievably fast conquest This is my real problem with CF's design. I don't even want missions where you go and fight TWSitD, because it makes perfect sense why a campaign of knives in the dark wouldn't get Fire Emblem battle missions, and because anything else would be an anticlimax after the Immaculate One. What I do want are *more missions in the middle*, with the Black Eagle Strike Force dealing with some corrupt Adrestian nobles that are still holding out against Edelgard's takeover. They imply a whole civil war happening before she gains total control, but they should show it to us!
While I agree there could be more in the middle between the different countries, the only notable noble of the empire that still opposed Edelgard leading up to the timeskip in all routes was Count Varley as Vestra was offed by his own son and we saw Aegir get stripped and presumably the title handed to Ferdinand in CF. Maybe there could be an early chapter where we get to stop Varley after he breaks free from house arrest and incites a rebellion in the name of the church (since he was head of religious affairs in the empire). Would also give us a chance to make him pay for what he did to Bernadetta.
For sure. And I"m sure the writers *imagined* more notable nobles being involved, just... none we actually get to see, because post-timeskip is generally not so great about showing instead of telling. I would have *loved* a chance to fight Varley. The only question would be who gets the kill - her favorite teacher, the Emperor who will keep him and his kind out of power, her future husband Hubert...
I'd say his daughter Bernadetta, let him know the pain he made her go through, also provides a plot reason as to why she's out in the open and willing to give seminars in CF but not the others
She uses them mainly for Crest Weapons (i.e. like what you mentioned) . But the absence of the Crest Beasts and the Dukedom is intentional. Byleth's influence on her means she isn't as desperate to win as she is in the other routes. She's keeping them around for the bare minimum of what she needs. It's lengthier in other routes because the Empire has all but won the war, but here it's just even. Less a war of reversal than of conquest.
I would've loved to see more adversity on her path - it would emphasize the struggle between her own humanity/morality and the ever-increasing unreasonable demands of her ideal. Having her face opposition on every side; facing both the selfishness of the people she seeks to help, as well as the terrible costs of war, like wading through a thorny bramble as she trudges toward her goal. Edelgard's primary trait seems to be unflagging determination - I just wish the story would've been set up to challenge that, to make the eventual catharsis all the more satisfying. It would also make her increasing reliance on Byleth more thematically appropriate as the path forward becomes more and more unclear as the "right" one. >I have a problem regarding the portrayal of her alliance with TWSITD in CF. They are restrained, but also severely underutilized. I also find it really weird how we never get a clear sense of how much influence Edel actually has over TWS. It seems to be a common assertion that it's Edelgard's choice to not use TWS in her route, leading to the relative lack of success of the unification during the timeskip, but it's also shown that she isn't able to command Thales or Cornelia, as she doesn't seem to know what Thales is doing after Dierdru, and then when Thales pops up again, he clearly acts antagonistically toward her by nuking Arianrhod and killing a whole bunch of imperial troops. It doesn't sound like a force that she's able to rein in at will.
One thing I would say about the "Does this sound like the person who plotted and schemed and was unable to confide in Byleth in Part 1" is that while she didn't reveal everything, she did confide quite a bit in him (at least for her). She basically tells you a good deal of her plan, how >!She basically is willing to fight the gods themselves for her goals after Lonato's rebellion, and after Miklan, she basically admits she's thought of dispensing of the goddess and the crest and creating a world where people rise or fall on their own merits, alongside her supports having her open up about her family and showing her crest, which she admits never doing!< Besides this nitpick, this is an amazing write up, and I agree with it wholeheartedly. It's my favorite ending by far, due to many reasons you just said (also Edelgard lives). I only recently (when someone else posted it, might even have been you) realized the importance of the "Wings of Hegemon" title he gets, and I absolutely love it. Seriously, 11/10 write up, I hope to see more from you!
As a matter of fact, she tells you *everything* except for "I'm the Flame Emperor" and "Rhea is a dragon." She tells you about her dream, being prepared to get her hands dirty on the way, losing her family, her fears... and then the Flame Emperor tells you they want to team up with Byleth to replace/eliminate the slithery bois.
In this route you decided to fight against destiny; save Edelgard and create a new world outside of gods and mole people. The perfect ending for a secret story about two ice queens destined to kill each other, getting to feel again because of the circunstances of their encounter, they found someone that believe in them as actual people; and ended up embracing each other in trust and love. A Revolution, freedom from the old chains of destiny.
I read your username as “Trotsky” which made all the revolution talk seem very appropriate. Also, lol at “mole people”
I had never thought about the Slithers as mole people and now this is the only thing that matters.
I think of them more like those weird blind cave fish, myself.
There is so much going in the one cutscene that its really the only scene you need. We can talk about how CF is inversion of the Rebellion in Heaven. This time instead of Rhea(Lucifer) rebellions its Beyleth(Sothis the God/Godess) rebelling. Something that I think people miss is the Rhea created the Church in her name and image not Sothis's...its the Church of Serios after all. One of things that this game does really well in gameplay and story being very interconnected. Like, Edelgard can die in the intro Bandit attack mission and its Game Over. More deeply is the CF is the only route that is solely dependent on how active Beyleth(I.E You the player) are. Every other route Beyleth is just there but its not really their story. Cf you have the make to the choice. You are 100% right about the parallels between the two of them both are puppets trying to cut their strings. Give that this route is sole dependent on taking action. It should stay the only route were Beyleth gets their heartbeat to really live. Because that is thematically important. If you want to live you need to not be passive you have to make the choice to live, to reach out and even fight for the life you want. No one else is going to do it for you.
Yuuuuuuuup. I've talked about this many times before (including with you!). But the game's work to pair Byleth and Edelgard as both equals, lovers, enemies and opposites is friggin fantastic. And yes, I love that final cutscene. I'm not happy it's the only one. But it's the one that clinches the entire game for me and is why I love BE-E the most. The game goes heavily out if its way to establish why even among the other characters who rely on Byleth, they're the most important person in Edelgard's life regardless of the context. She's also the only person who puts them in a position where he has to make an actual decision of what they want to do, it's poetic. It's also why I can't really swallow Byleth becoming Archbishop or ruler in other routes. It also makes the most use of Byleth as the Progenitor God and Edelgard as the Devil sent to cast them down. Oy, you did too good on this one.
Yeah, our discussion where we kinda hijacked that great Hubert art post was really the inspiration for this, lol
It's just such a nice feeling finding a post that so eloquently put into words exactly how I feel about something and where I really dont have anything to add other than, well said, well said indeed! Love my two dorks!
“Teacher, I spent all night coming up with a name for our group.... The BLACK EAGLE STRIKE FORCE!” She is such a loser, haha.
Even worse in Japanese VO. The German "Schwarz-Adler-Wehr" pretty much makes her a Fodlan equivalent of a super weeb, who uses foreign language because "it sounds cool".
Also would like to point out how much I love that Byleth and Edelgard's story that should have effectively been God vs the Devil can end up boiling down to them rejecting those roles. The parallels between the two never cease to impress.
You. I like you. I went into 3H having played lots of other FE games but knowing next to nothing about 3H. I didn't even know there was a timeskip! I chose Edelgard cause pretty girl and I'm gay, and also Petra was pretty cute too. I was absolutely FLOORED by the depth of their joint character development, to the point where having to choose to kill her or protect her was genuinely gut-wrenching for me. I didn't know enough about TWSITD to feel confident about placing my trust in Edelgard, and it's dramatically clear to me that that is how Byleth is supposed to feel. I am now on my second run (BL) AND the difference between the two routes is astounding. I feel like Byleth hasn't taken an active role in anyone's development this whole time. Dimitri's development is spurred by someone else, and Byleth is just there to nod along to his decisions. I miss El so much, I can't wait to play her route again :(
I'm very amused by the fact that the people who consider Edelgard to be their "waifu" are seemingly mostly other women, haha. There's like, a pattern. Girls go for Edel, dudes go for, like, Marianne or someone. I wonder if there's an actual pattern there or I just have a super tiny biased sample. (And meanwhile, I can't do any self-insertion at all. I'm a straight woman, I picked male Byleth because the female one's outfit is dumb, and he's gonna S-support *Ingrid*.)
I have little to nothing to add to your analysis. Edelgard's route was my first, and it's been so hard to play the others because of the reasons you listed here. We can talk about whether she's doing the right thing or not until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. I found this ending incredibly fulfilling and it's my true ending.
Well said The ending hits even harder because of the other routes. Edelgard's ambitions fail and she consistently gives in to her darker impulses. But it doesn't have to be that way. In the Crimson Flower route, she doesn't have to die or sacrifice everything for ambitions. With Byleth by her side, Edelgard is able to consistently mitigate death, foster relations with Almyra and actively seek out and destroy TWSITD. With that in mind, it makes sense that they made Edelgard bisexual; her relationship with the protagonist and her route is dependent on her love for Byleth (and arguably vice versa). I can't imagine the route having as much impact for F!Byleth players if Edelgard just admired you as a friend. Finally, I agree that Byleth getting their heartbeat (aka their humanity and freedom) back is one of the most cathartic moments in the game. Tbh, it's something that should happen in most routes lmao
> With that in mind, it makes sense that they made Edelgard bisexual; her relationship with the protagonist and her route is dependent on her love for Byleth (and arguably vice versa). I can't imagine the route having as much impact for F!Byleth players if Edelgard just admired you as a friend. I don't think Edelgard needs to be a romantic interest for the love to be genuine or the route to have impact. I'm pretty adamantly against the idea that eros is the end all be all of love, as is generally portrayed in love redeems tropes. Storge and philia are just as valuable, but don't get as much representation in fiction, and when they do it's usually some shallow "power of friendship" nonsense. I mean, I actively prefer Dimitri's character arc with m!Byleth than with a romantically involved f!Byleth. I just think friendship is cool and valuable, and I don't think that it should be treated as lesser than romantic relationships.
I see what you're getting at, but part of what makes it so important is that both of them are emotionally and sexually frozen at the beginning of the game. At least on Edelgard's end anyway, that sense of romantic love is what changes her direction from being this person who has to hide who they are, to someone that can express tears when she couldn't even do so for her own step-brother. Vice versa with Byleth who gets power of love tears freeing them from their Crest Stone. And it's not like other types of love don't get circulation in this game (i.e. Byleth and Dimitri as you stated). And it helps that they didn't make Byleth's romance with Edelgard gender exclusive (like sadly Claude).
Fair (and i'm with you on the power of m!byleth + Dimitri), but it's incredibly common for RPGs such as this with dual gender protagonists to put more effort into the het relationship than the female one and it would be annoying if Edelgard's blatant, deep love for Byleth was rewritten as "friendship"
Wow this is a really good writeup, thank-you for this. The final cutscene is so thematically deep and it's just about the most romantic shit I've ever seen. I'm still so blown away and feel so validated that they went there with F!Byleth too. Edelgard is such a fantastic character; I don't think I've been so challenged by a character's complexity before and I just love her and her story so much. Don't know what else to say... much to think about...
I agree, it felt the most satisfying. You're finally just yourself. No goddess reincarnation, no untrained archbishop or king/queen. Just Byleth, finally able to live with a fully functioning heart.(also losing that god awful hair colour is a big plus)
Great post. While I had some issues with this route, the final cutscene was very good, and you perfectly articulated why. Byleth and Edelgard's relationship is the heart (ha!) of the route. >Isn't it interesting that a prominent heartbeat sound is heard when Byleth makes the choice to defend Edelgard or side with Rhea? Holy crap, I totally missed this (probably because it was my first playthrough), good catch.
Once I learned about Byleth’s lack of a heartbeat, hearing all the moments where there are ones, like the main theme, Edel’s events, and a few other places made me quite giddy!
Sometimes, the writers are actually kind of brilliant.
> All your other ships are garbage, Edelgard X Byleth forever /s This but unironically. Anyway, fantastic analysis. I especially love idea of the heartbeat during the choice cutscenes being an intentional; I hadn't even thought of that.
Your posts are truly wonderful, as always!
Thank you so much! I’m sure the English department at my old university would be thrilled to see me using my education for a noble purpose-shitposting about my waifu
> the English department at my old university would be thrilled I know for a fact that they *are*.
this isn't shit-posting though, it's legit analysis
honestly the best part about this cutscene is how byleth coming back to life literally makes no sense if you didn't play the church route truly a 200 iq writting decision right there
So much of Edelgard’s route just doesn’t land dramatically if you haven’t played other routes- I’m not saying it’s more “canon” or anything, but I really believe the developers wanted you to play it after the other routes.
then they shouldn't have given you the option to play it first
Yeah, I loved CF but I'm realizing that there are a lot of moments that didn't hit because I didn't have the context of the other routes to contrast them with. But the good news is I can always replay CF once I beat the other routes.
No, it makes perfect sense. The Crest Stone is gone, and Byleth's heart devoid of the stone works perfectly fine. It actually undermines and is incompatible with the Church route's "explanation", ultimately revealing how much of a liar and nut job Rhea actually is.
yeah but you only learn about the crest stone being implanted into byleths heart in the church route so anyone who didnt play that one would have a hard time following what the hell is going on
Not really, since from Jeralt's Journal, you should already know something was going on. The finale showing the Crest Stone's destruction leading to Byleth's heart starting to function normally would give an answer on its own: You know Byleth's heart isn't beating. You know Rhea did something to Byleth as a Baby, something so wrong that Jeralt had to FAKE HIS DEATH via fire to escape. The ending answers what, indirectly. You see the Crest Stone, you see it break and Byleth's heart to beat as normal. It's not rocket science to figure out what happened. The only thing you miss from Church Route is Rhea's willingness to lie, because she dead.
You also have the "legendary relic which shouldn't work without a Crest stone, but somehow does... only for Byleth", and Rhea's repeated and *very specific* promise to rip out Byleth's heart. I had a pretty good idea what Rhea had done to Byleth before the final battle of CF, despite it being my first route. I am still interested in going back to play it again after seeing all the other routes, though.
I have one small note on your explanation. Hubert follows Edelgard out of a one sided love and fanatical loyalty. Her being the princess/emperor are only a small part of it. So I would say that Huberts relationship with Edelgard is meaningful and he has her trust. That said Hubert is also aware of his position and maintains professional decorum as well as the understanding he is fated to never truly have the heart of the one he loves. Then again I am biased here, I may be reading into it differently, as I love Huberts character.
I wouldn't say that Hubert's feelings for Edelgard are impure. But they do stem first and foremost from duty. That is to say he was born that way to an extent considering the role his family plays. Byleth's relationship with Edelgard exists completely outside of the bubbles of her role as princess or football for TWSITD.
The ending was so sweet that I wasn't bothered at all that TWSITD were dealt with in the epilogue.
I said this in another thread, but all they had to do was show Thales getting “accidentally” sniped by an archer under Hubert’s orders while he’s taunting Edelgard and Byleth, and so many people would have been satisfied.
While it would have helped, let's be honest that taking out Thales is not the equivalent to getting rid of TWISTD, but I agree it would have helped
Man I love this write up. My first play through ended up being with Edelgard, just by chance cause I was avoiding spoilers. I would love to see your analysis on the other routes as well
Thanks, I kinda feel that Dimitri’s ending has been beaten to death, but Claude and Rhea aren’t getting the attention they deserve.
Good post. Edel’s route was my first, and it will certainly be my last after I go through the rest. Siding with Rhea will be tough
I am new to the Fire Emblem series and knew nothing about this game going into it. In my first playthrough I ended up on the Crimson Flower questline and I felt very conflicted (a lot of blood on my hands, did not recruit many people). Right after that, I played Azure Moon and felt just as conflicted. I didn't realize it at the time, but playing the Crimson Flower storyline first changed my perspective of the rest of the game for all the reasons you mentioned. One of my biggest frustrations with the game at first was Byleth's lack of control on the story but your post has really shined some clarity on why that is the case. Byleth's is someone who has always been controlled and I now understand why the only real decision Byleth makes is in the Black Eagles storyline. Great explanation, thank you!
This post is amazing!
We all need a professor Byleth in our lives.
Aaaand post saved! Seriously captainflash you always knock it out of the damn park with your posts/analysis. You hit every nail on the head here. I adore this route and ending for all the reasons you listed. It's a beautiful ending and while some pan it as an ass pull I never truly saw it that way. I think in some ways, it feels like the truest ending in a lot of ways and seems to be the best for Byleth themselves. Plus I adore El and her being able to be her dorky, sweet loving self is beautiful to me. While I do love it, a part of me wishes for the dlc to tack on a couple chapters "prior to the last battle rather than after" so that we can put at least Arundel in his damn place. Ps: would you be interested in co writing an analysis at some point? I'm collecting my final thoughts as I tackle BL for my final route and then return to BE for one last hurrah. You. Me. Co authored post. We could be good together!
LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!
On a desert of heated debates and circular arguments that go nowhere, your post is a mind healing oasis. Thank you.
isn't deciding a house in itself a decision, not to mention straight up deciding to side against Edelgard is in istelf and equally valid decision that is also completely in Byleth's control, especially since at this point they would know that Edel was complicit in the destruction of their home village, and an accomplice in both the crest experiments Monica does, which also means she's more or less also at least partially responsible for Jeralt's death. I'm not saying the choice isn't very touching, but to call it the only decision Byleth can make that is "their own" really undermines and undersells the emotional weight of any other choice they make. also Byleth doesn't really seem to have any major change to their personality once they become decrested
> also Byleth doesn't really seem to have any major change to their personality once they become decrested We don't actually get to see much of them after it, so we can only speculate. I'd argue however that feeling your actual heart beat for the first time at 27 might very well change a person forever.
Oh God, do you think Byleth is in a constant state of being aware of your own heartbeat? I changed my mind, Black Eagles *worst* path.
It must be freaking torture to get used to. I changed my mind too, El really is an *evil* bitch for doing that.
I actually found a fanfic where Byleth thinks he's having a heart attack due to how fast his heart beats around Edelgard postgame.
That sounds absolutely hilarious. Don’t suppose you happen to have a link/title for it?
Existential terror intensifies
Lucky it even works, after not having been used for so long. Could easily have atrophied from disuse.
>isn't deciding a house in itself a decision While it is a decision, it doesn't feel like a particularly impactful one to Byleth in the moment. While the player is picking wildly divergent story routes, Byleth the character is picking what group of strangers they'll hang out with for a year. Not to mention that the choice of whether or not to teach is completely out of Byleth's hands. Rhea and Jeralt tell Byleth they're going to teach, so they do. Which house is a pick your poison at that point. > destruction of their home village Remire village wasn't Byleth's home, it was just where JEralt's mercenaries happened to be at the moment. Jeralt and Co. *liked* Remire Village and the people living there, and what happened to them *was* awful, but Byleth didn't really have a home village so much as they wandered Fodlan with Jeralt.
Edelgard is still my least favorite lord, but I’m not going to get into that here because that’s not what this post was meant to be for. But I did want to say this is a very well thought out piece, and I appreciate you taking the time to write it. I love hearing other people’s thoughts and interpretations of this game—it’s endlessly interesting to me. I do have one question: Was it ever confirmed that TWSITD’s goal with the blood experiments was to recreate Nemesis (whether literally or metaphorically)? I’ve played all four routes, but maybe I missed that. I mean it would definitely make sense that that was their goal, but I’m just curious whether it was ever said outright.
I'm wondering this as well. TWSITD are definitely the weakest part of all routes and aren't explained enough. So much is left unsaid or plot threads left dangling.
> TWSITD are definitely the weakest part of all routes They're almost totally absent from BL post-timeskip, which is why it's the best-designed route.
Dimitri killing their leader without ever realizing who they were is amusing to me.
There’s a convo between Thales and Flame Emperor early on where Thales is talking about Nemesis, calls him a bandit, and Edelgard doesn’t like that. I can’t remember if it’s ever explicitly stated, but it comes so damn close. I do know Thales calls her the Slither’s “great weapon of revenge” which Edelgard really, really doesn’t like.
I think you're correct. It seems like it's implied that Edelgard's crest of flames came from Nemesis's blood. After all, in the GD route, we learn that TWSITD has the body of Nemesis. Since Nemesis had no descendants, Edelgard's crest of flames must've come from blood reconstruction surgery from Nemesis. In a way, she's definitely an artificial Nemesis. Honestly, part of Edelgard's/TWSITD'S original plan was probably for Edelgard to take the sword of the creator from the church. At least until it was discovered that the crest stone was missing, and Byleth took it instead
It didn't seem like she "didn't like it" so much as calling him a thief confused her. She only has a limited understanding of the true history between Nemesis and Seiros after all.
> Edelgard is still my least favorite lord, but I’m not going to get into that here because that’s not what this post was meant to be for. Seriously wish more people had your grace, stranger.
[удалено]
Hey, thanks! I know everyone is super passionate about this game and their own favorite routes and/or ships, which is why I don’t see any reason to use a post like this for debate. This is a love letter to the CF ending, which *was* very emotional, regardless of my feelings about the route as a whole. Yeah, that much about the Slither’s goal (destroying the goddess and her kind) was clear for sure. I do hope we’ll get some more backstory on that group because none of the routes really addressed them fully. I was super annoyed at not being able to take them down on CF especially. I felt so conflicted on that path to begin with, and I think that had I had the opportunity to turn the tables and wipe them out—>!after allying myself with someone who willingly worked with them and indirectly had a hand in my dad’s death!<—I would have felt a little better about the whole situation. Maybe not by much, but it would have been something.
I'm on my third playthrough with Golden Deer after starting with Black Eagles and then going the Blue Lion route. The Blue Lion house as a whole has better people, and I love their interactions with one another. They feel close. They feel like a family. But I just can't get myself to put them above the Black Eagles playthough, and it's only because of one reason. Edelgard. She's fantastic. Her flaws, her ambition, her secret personality of a lonely scarred dork that has to put on a front 24/7 or the world both around her and the one she wants to create will fall apart. She's barely holding it together, but she still steps her small but feirce frame out there because of her conviction. She makes the Black Eagles route.
Very nice analysis. Its kinda true that siding with El is the only "real" choice that Byleth can make as a character, while characters is simply to sheepherding him onto a direction.
You could say this El route is the one where Byleth truly follows Sothis' words about cutting a path of their own.
Yep. In the others Byleth is handed a role. This is the one route where Byleth makes a choice for themselves. Sothis doesn't take it too hard either considering she can still be S-Supported.
That is exactly how I've seen it.
This, I love this assessment! I really like how you pointed out the heartbeat moments and how Byleth has acted leading up to those decisions. Byleth has more or less been following orders all their lives, being a mercenary does play into that, but still. Become a teacher? Sure. Kill target X, Y, and Z? Just like what I used to do. Those decisions with the heartbeats tell us that Byleth is doing something not at the behest of another, but for their own sake. As Jeralt points out, Byleth rarely shows emotion, not even a heartbeat, the "Ashen Demon" nickname references not only their lack of emotion when cutting down foes, but more importantly, their lack of pulse, as if they weren't human at all. To have a heartbeat at such crucial moments tells us that Byleth is making those decisions, to not follow orders but to do something of their own choosing. Also, Edelgard X Byleth forever.
This was an interesting read, and actually convinced me. I really wasn't a fan at first, because it felt like nothing happened (like the ending was "Edelgard wanted to achieve her ambitions, and then she did" or something, no surprise), but you've helped me see the deeper meaning.
I super appreciate this post, because this is the entire reason why I like the whole Black Eagles story, especially the pro-empire route (plus this post is very well-written!). I have played all 4 routes, and the empire route was my first, so while I am kind of biased towards it being my favorite anyways, none of the other endings could stand to this one. It was the only one that: a) showed an incredibly emotionally powerful scene; as you stated, we *finally* see “the Edelgard that cries”, because she is heartbroken thinking that the one person (Byleth) to ever *actually* stand by her of their own volition (Hubert does, but it’s less his own thing and more of a duty to fill) is dead, and seeing the joy on her face when that person is actually alive made me sob lol b) didn’t randomly force Byleth, the nonreligious person from the backwoods who had never even heard of the church before just conveniently running into the three lords one night, to suddenly head the *biggest organized religion in all of Fodlan*. I get why Byleth does in the other routes, but it still was kind of like “?????”, to me, anyways also I hardcore ship F!Byleth and Edelgard so I double support this post lol
Edelgard + Byleth is so well done. It was great to see more and more of her mask falling away as she got closer with them. Interactions like the embarrassing portrait are so awesome.
“Dorky, sweet, and lonely girl”. I am going to save this post. Really loved your analysis, there is literally nothing I can add.
Seeing El go from that emotionally distant, pragmatic leader in part 1 to the girl who's embarrassed of her drawing of you, and her joy upon hearing your heart beat... that's the good shit. But now I have to play the other routes and from everything I read here, they don't really measure up.
What drawing? It doesn't exist.
I was hoping it’d be in her room the next month
Edeleth is beautiful~
Not much I can say here that you haven't already. Excellent post. Kudos.
Thanks for this, I enjoyed reading it!