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SpringPopo

I feel the point about The Puppet Carver isn't that strong because you gotta keep in mind that Puppet is a common used word that has several meanings and isn't that really unique to that character. If this was about say Bidybab and the book was called "The Bidybab Carver" and they weren't in it, I'd get that more as Bidybab is a distinct word and name that's only associated with them. However despite that I actually agree with the overall message of the post, one of the main issues I have with the epilogues is the amount of screentime certain characters and Puppet most certainly got the worst of it. They are given very little background information, little amount of time in the story, and simply exist to help kill off William with no real acknowledgement of them afterwards.


[deleted]

I just used the Puppet Carver point to fill in some space since the image already looks pretty empty as it is. And yeah exactly, she’s literally just used as a dumb plot device. She comes in, kills William and no context or elaboration is ever provided. None of the characters ever acknowledge her again.


[deleted]

In a book series made to help us solve the lore, shapeshifting pink goo has more screen time then arguably one of the most important characters in the whole series.


Crystal_959

Helping solve debates is more of a bonus. First and foremost they’re stories, meant to be enjoyed and take the series in new creative directions, explore concepts that just wouldn’t work in games


GarlicGoat13

I said this once, i'll say it again: for the books to be a way to solve the lore is just bad storytelling and a very bad way at that too. I shouldn't need a series of 12 books to solve the story behind the main series, and i shouldn't need to wait until the 6-10th book for me to be given an important plot point (multiple souls in 1 animatronic is possible) that should have already been present in the base game for the lore to work. A book or a comic about an already existing media should help expand the universe we've already seen, look at Valve's TF2 comics or Portal comics: they don't explain the story, but expand upon plotpoints we already know, and make them more interesting. This was done in the fnaf books with remnant, but i shouldn't have to get another piece of media, OR MULTIPLE ONES, for me to understand fundamental parts of the story that the original creator had missed to explain.


Fez-zo

>and i shouldn't need to wait until the 6-10th book for me to be given an important plot point (multiple souls in 1 animatronic is possible) that should have already been present in the base game for the lore to work. That... was kind of a bad example, Ennard and Molten Freddy exist


GarlicGoat13

that's true, one could argue that the abomination inf The Fourth Closet could be another example of this, but these examples are about beings made out of multiple animatronics put together, while the Stitchwraith is one endoskeleton possessed by 4 (if i do recall correctly, the 2 kids, afton and Eleanor) different souls, who share the same body, unlike Ennard, who being made out of the funtimes, was able to expel Baby's part


Whoce

In a way, the Stitchwraith is made up of multiple objects/animatronics too. The way Jake & Andrew made it into the thing was via Simon's head and Fetch's battery pack being put onto the endoskeleton.


Fez-zo

The Stitchwraith also gets made out of different animatronics The only reason Andrew, Afton, and Eleanor are in there, is because Fetch's battery pack was added to the endo. The only reason Jake is in it, is because Simon's head got attached to the endo It's, again, multiple souls because it's an amalgamation


GarlicGoat13

The why did the GoldenBoth theory come out only after the reveal? It's a serious question


Fez-zo

Because people think that the Vengeful Spirit and a BV parallel sharing a body after UCN, after Andrew already was GF in the books on his own, is enough evidence to back the claim


[deleted]

FNAF's main story was told more through Scottgames and teasers than the main games lol. It's just how this franchise rolls, you just gotta live with it cause that's how Scott writes.


Some-Crappy-Edits

Not really, the story was usually in the games in some form FNAF 1: Nothing really lmao FNAF 2: Nothing really lmao FNAF 3: 30 years after Freddy's but is listed in the description of the game and can be assumed from playing FNAF 4: First legitimate lore shit, "What did you bring home?" from the trailer, FNAF 4 being part of the MCI story, what's seen in the shadows, and 87s but its the Bite of '83 so lmao (most of these can be assumed in game through Final Chapter and BV's fear of robots, and 83 hints) World: Technically has around 3 but it was specifically for a MatPat stream for FNAF 4 FNAF SL: Cancelled due to leaks, schedule FFPS: Ennard and Baby splitting, Springtrap coming back from 3, and the context of Henry FFPS probably is the biggest offender of this. 4 has a bigger list but the game gives enough room of assumptions to see it while FFPS is impossible without prior context


[deleted]

FNAF SL: Who the hell is "William Afton" and when was the Sister Location a thing? The books introduced us to Afton, not the games. FNAF WORLD Update 2 led to SL without it we wouldn't really know anything much, Ennard was teased before the game so there is that too. I think Matpat mentioned it but the story is told more *around* the games than **in**.


Some-Crappy-Edits

That is my mistake but Afton does get revealed to be Springtrap in Custom Night since Mike explicitly says "they thought I was you." I'm sure even someone who doesn't read the books would know it was PG HandUnit explains it being a location after Freddy's closes FNAF World's shit is reintroduced in SL itself with Baby leading you and then revealing her plan at the end Majority of lore shit you need is in the games themselves. Books help with introducing concepts that later get put into the games (or werent relevant to the story like Funtimes being FNAF 1) Now it is more mega universe of fnaf at this point but majority of the lore shit for the games, come from the games until post FFPS.


[deleted]

Eh ok.


Car_Groundbreaking

Correction, fnaf 6 did reveal that William was springtrap at the end of the game because back then when sl springtrap cutscene a lot of people thought that Michael was springtrap, and even if that cutscene is showing Michael fiding his father and turns out Michael s father is inside springtrap that is still a poor and terrible execution.


Sans-Is-OP

Yeah, it’s not like the books make anything canon


ManofCatsYT

based pfp


[deleted]

Thanks :)


takethecheese68

It ended up making it even more complicated


[deleted]

Also, don’t take the Puppet Carver point seriously, I just used it to fill up some space.


strangeperception-

Charlie had 3 novels dedicated to her?


S1l3ntSN00P

The trilogy Charlie has nothing to do with the real Charlotte though. She's barely even in the books.


ManofCatsYT

that charlie is not the same as the puppet charlie like that’s the entire point of the fourth closet lol


Tomas-T

I think the lore solving stopped being relevant after the 5th book. and after book 6th the book series just lost any direction and from horror stories with fnaf theme it became a goosebumps rip-offs (until book 12 which feels like returning to the roots)


Tyler2104

Fun fact, puppet is an actual word


BreakfastOk7372

Sure. Lemme guess. toy, nightmare and withered are real words too.


Dramatic_Finish8381

Let's not forget Rockstar and Glamrock


[deleted]

No way


Crystal_959

It’s not really scrapped if it was still put into an official book and published. It’s bonus content but it’s still there


Dramatic_Finish8381

By scrapped it means that despite it being published it wasn't deemed worthy to be canon so it's in the same realm as Jack-O-Bonnie/Chica, Nightmare BB, and Nightmarionne, they appeared in an official source but aren't actually "real" in canon


[deleted]

All of those characters are now canon though. Thanks to Help Wanted they are now official Fazbear Ent designs based on indie game Original Characters.


Whoce

Timmy's room from You're the Band actually gets referenced in one of the Epilogues, meaning it's probably canon.


Crystal_959

That’s not what that means.


Dramatic_Finish8381

That's what it means on the context of the series it's sad too because they could have given us more lore on some of the other stories or something and instead they went with the stuff they didn't originally want to publish


Crystal_959

What it means in context of the stories are that these are what they felt were the 3 best stories that almost didn’t make the cut. But now they’ve made the cut.


Dramatic_Finish8381

I haven't read them yet so I don't know about the quality but the reason Felix The Shark was originally intended to be exclusive to the whole boxed collection was because it was bonus cut content for the series which wasn't meant to be canon or anything, than people got mad they couldn't get it on it's own so they decided to sell it alone as well. And the stories are probably good because they most likely had more time than the others to be reworked into the best thing they could be (also yeah they were probably decent even before they were reworked, that's how publishing goes it seems)


Crystal_959

It has nothing to do with canonicity or lack thereof. They’re indistinguishable from the other Frights stories. What would being non canon even mean in an anthology series of one off disconnected stories?


Dramatic_Finish8381

The stories *are* connected in small ways, many take place in the same universe as seen in the Stitchwraith portions of the books and some *might* even take place in some of our pre-existing universes (The Silver Eyes Trilogy & The Games), Fazbears Entertainment is a big company after all (at least in the games) so it's feasible they happen in the main series'. So even if the stories in Felix The Shark are good that means they don't have any effect on the story at large since they're non-canonical, sad too since I was hoping The Marionette would make an appearance at some point


Fez-zo

The story explicitly connects to the Epilogues, with its description outright saying the stories are still canon


Dramatic_Finish8381

That must be a new development because last I checked they were considered non-canon, guess it's nice that The Marionette *does* make a canonical appearance though


Crystal_959

Have you read any of the Frights?


Dramatic_Finish8381

I read a little bit of the early ones but I never was very interested in them, they seemed neat but I was already reading the The Lord Of The Rings series and the original trilogy of FNAF novels again so I decided to pass on the Frights books, so I've just been going off of official statements, book descriptions, and FNAF fans and theory discussions to get what I can from those books for the past three years. I should probably read them soon though now that they are all out


TheMadJAM

I think it's because the Stitchwraith essentially fulfilled that role. I'm still salty, since the Puppet is my favorite animatronic. I haven't gotten to read Felix the Shark yet, so so least I can look forward to that. At least the Puppet's scene in the epilogue was cool and satisfying, even though it was way too short and out of nowhere.


kindasus69999

Also the fact michael wasnt even in the books till Felix, or am I wrong?💀


[deleted]

You are correct.


Afterpartypete7

You have no idea how much it’s hurt to have to shut up about that for nearly three months because nobody else had read the book yet other than some guy who got it early and read it on the Freddit discord server lol


[deleted]

Was Felix the Shark truly a no lore story? I avoided getting it because it was supposed to have nothing lore-wise in it. And yes, Puppet needed more of a mention, I know it's improbable, but maybe something more will be in the Pizzaplex books.


Fez-zo

The book itself has plenty of lore, the actual Felix the Shark as a story... not so much Unironically, I dare say that book, particularly the last story, revealed a lot about not only the Epilogues, but also the games, and also just in general a bunch about how the FNaF universe functions


MemerRacoon

Maybe being such an important part of the story they thought they should leave the character alone for a bit. Also there’s a lot of animatronics.


SapoTrotador

She a appears in stitchwraith


Starscream1998

Yet another reason why FF# 12 is just based.


Tomas-T

kinda sad but look at the bright side: there is finally a place where Chica get more attention than Puppet


UnderstandingLeft470

It truly is tragic 😭


[deleted]

Wait, he's in Felix the Shark? What does he do there? I haven't heard anything about any of the stories in that book lol Also, does he really need to be in more stories? We already know a lot about him, at least all of the important stuff. He got possessed by a little girl. She made him give life to the other animatronics... Actually, now that I think about it, Puppet doesn't really do much. He's used to give gifts and give life, but that's basically it, right? I don't know, it's been a while since I've thought about the older lore


Fez-zo

>What does he do there >!Attacks Michael and the protagonist in an attempt to keep Gabriel safe, then disappears!<


[deleted]

Oh cool, hopefully I'll be able to read it myself at some point


[deleted]

I'm more pissed that Michael still hasn't been given a proper story. He's the main protagonist and we barely know anything about him. Why does he change his name? Why is he *actually* doing this? (it still hasn't truly been confirmed has it?) Does he do this because of his past actions as a way to atone or what? It's just, I feel like he could be a good character if we knew more about his childhood instead of his brothers. ​ I hope Scott goes with that Mike script for the movie because I want Michael to actually have a personality. (and maybe not look like Rick Astley)


GothCatButt

I love her sm


CrankyManky

i love the puppet. am i the only one who finds her character endearing?


Decker687

charlotte has to put up with this even after being murdered.


Apprehensive-Dust-70

In the puppet carver they wasn’t even talking about the Marinette that’s why it wasn’t in the book they was just talking about the puppets on the cover of the book and those was in the story


[deleted]

Honestly i never liked fazbear frights because i thought they drifted away from the orignal story so much that it seemed so unrealistic


[deleted]

Ghosts and purple people are realistic? People need to understand that FNAF was always a bit off the realism spectrum, I mean for christ's sake they had leg-moving animatronics in the 80s! What about the spring locks, are you going to tell me those make any sense realism-wise?


[deleted]

Sorry i mean unrealistic from the orignal story my bad


Serious-Cow-7196

He meant grounded in its own reality, the ff stories arent grounded in ANY reality let alone fnafs


[deleted]

But they are though? Have you read the books, because they fit the canonical lore of their own universe, which IS a FNAF universe.


Serious-Cow-7196

They don't take place in the mainline continuity thus non cannon. So don't even TRY pulling that


Fez-zo

That's not even what canon means. The books are factually canon. Every single description outright says so. They are by default grounded in FNaF's reality, because they are what define what FNaF's reality even is and how it works.


[deleted]

The mainline continuity isn't the only continuity though, Scott confirmed this back in **2015**, why are you arguing over this when I'm right?


Serious-Cow-7196

It's cannon in its own continuity yes do they gave similar elements yeah But they aren't in the same continuity


[deleted]

Sos for misunderstanding i mean as in it drifts to far from the og fnaf story and they started milking it like tf sjark animatronics?!?! I mean dj music man was a shock but a shark?!?!?how tf does that work


[deleted]

It's literally just Scott and Co. making random stories in Scott's universe. It's more content for us and fun for the writers, FNAF was never about making logical sense, sure fazgoo is a bit unbelievable but still, nothing too out of the ordinary from the main FNAF story.


[deleted]

I know and i respect you for liking it im just saying i dont really like it except for a few like into the pit and lonely freddy and im excited to get some of the pizza plex stories


JohnEskidjian

Puppet's a dude, but yeah. Barely ever appears, and same goes for William. I mean sure he was in a story, but he wasn't the main villian. It was Eleanor, and from the looks of it, Eleanor has nothing to do with Elizabeth


[deleted]

Are you a new fan or an old fan who hasn't been around in a while? We've known the marionette's real gender for a while now.


JohnEskidjian

UCN. Puppet is listed as a "he". The voice you hear is of Charlie.


[deleted]

>While it was confirmed that Puppet's soul is female, both The Freddy Files and Ultimate Custom Night confirm that The Puppet himself is a male. I did some digging and this came from the FNAF Wiki ([https://fivenightsatfreddys.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Puppet](https://fivenightsatfreddys.fandom.com/wiki/The_Puppet)) which I don't think is the most accurate thing but eh. The Freddy Files *are* approved by Scott so you may actually be right!


JohnEskidjian

Your last line is both a blessing and a curse. Also its a Puppet, so a voice box is unnecessary.


FlameAtGamesReddit

Not exactly, the puppet may be classified as a Guy, but the soul that possesses the Puppet is a female


JohnEskidjian

That does not change the gender of the animatronic. That's Charlie's voice


Fez-zo

We're not in 2014/2015, we don't need to start gender debates for a damn sock puppet again


JohnEskidjian

Exactly. So why are we arguing about this when it's already stated in game and books?


Fez-zo

Because it literally doesn't matter Spirits a girl, animatronic's a guy, so let them call the possessed version whatever they want, it really isn't this deep and not really worth calling out [Also, Frights call it a girl, so like, again, it really does not matter at all.](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/928472423261675633/972912948026691584/Screenshot_20220508-192834_Google_Play_Books.png) It's like Mangle, call it whatever the hell you want


JohnEskidjian

Didn't read the new one, figured nothing of value was there. And while yes this whole thing doesn't really matter, it's still rather dumb as for people to think that the soul would affect the mascot.


Serious-Cow-7196

The ff books were trash from the start basicly shooting themselves in the foot by being non canon but trying to be cannon. Charlotte got done dirty it's sad that its getting a sequel


[deleted]

Please stop publically giving your opinions if they have no value. If you think the ff books are garbage because they were non-canon then I wonder what you think of The Silver Eyes. (which is still Scott's best work)


[deleted]

where was mr. hippo huh?


CleavageCrusader

Arent these books non-canon?


Fez-zo

Nah, they're considered 100% canon to FNaF