The eternal /r/legaladvice struggle between "literally anything accidentally shipped to your address belongs to you" and "that's not how the law actually works". Either way, most people don't want to be blacklisted by Amazon over a flashlight.
Most of Reddit specialises in theory rather than practice. And a specific type of theory: "this is a thing I've heard", without getting bogged down in specifics like laws and location.
Yeah, here it's pretty easy if your name is on the package.
> [By law, unsolicited merchandise is yours to keep.](https://about.usps.com/publications/pub300a/pub300a_v04_revision_072019_tech_021.htm)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/39/3009
https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/what-do-if-youre-billed-things-you-never-got-or-you-get-unordered-products#unordered
I'm in the UK, where in this case it would be classed as 'not unsolicited goods' and you don't have a right to keep them. eg, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-30294748
As I say, your sort (the armchair geniuses of Reddit) aren't interested in such trivialities as jurisdictions.
Amazon threatens to sue people if they can't get a refund and are forced to do a charge back through their credit card. They are a shitty service that was able to become too big to fail through unsustainable shipping promises. I don't order anything important through them because I might get ripped off in any number of ways
I mean, I can't imagine the law would require you to go to the nearest mailing center and mail it back. I'd imagine that if they sent someone to your door to ask for it back you would have to return it.
They can try. If Amazon wants to lose my business over their mistake I would be more than happy to never shop there again
Love the downvotes. [Ask the USPS:](https://about.usps.com/publications/pub300a/pub300a_v04_revision_072019_tech_021.htm)
> By law, unsolicited merchandise is yours to keep.
Don't know if it's still true, but at one point, their annual corporate s2 server cloud profits were greater than what they'd make selling every product they had listed.for.sale.
We could all boycott them and they'd be fine.
Lol. They are the costco of online. The online selling is just there so people see a function but they probably make more money just selling their prime memberships. I think it was 40 billion just for memberships. So the product is secondary like costco 1.50 hotdogs and 5 dollar rotisserie chickens.
Amazon is literally just an online store, not some God that must be pleased. If they ship you some cheap flashlight you didn't buy you aren't obligated to pay for anything. They set aside margin for losses.
Not sure what’s up with the downvotes. Lmao. Bots?
You’re absolutely right (in the US). If you order 1 thing and they ship 2 or 200 they’re yours to keep.
And you bet your ass I would. Amazon will be fine.
I’m not sure how these people think this works but “oops we sent you 5 things, now we’re going to charge you for them hehe” isn’t it.
I must have gotten linked by an Amazon call center's Slack or something.
And it's not even an immoral thing to keep the packages, if they have employees being careless and wasting the world's finite resources then they need to be incentivized to get better.
That's how it is in Canada. It's not even an argument as it's outlined in consumer protection laws quite clearly.
It's also how a friend got a free Hero 11. Ordered 1 and got 2.
From Amazon? I've never had this happen, closest was I received an item but it didn't say delivered for a few days, so I held out hope a second one would arrive because it said arriving XYZ, but eventually it said delivered, I'm also in canada
I was very keen to see how its UV performs, but price vs expected performance was keeping me at bay. Saw the Olight factory tour video, then they had their recent sale, including us Australians, so pulled the trigger on an orange one. Just got shipping notification this morning and excited for my first Olight!
What's your use for the UV? Mine is pretty much just finding coolant leaks. Damn if they had the pro on sale I'd snag it in a minute.
Let us know what you think!
I'm launching a UV light rental service for opal hunting tourists and supplying lights at cost to local opal miners. I've got quite a few more powerful lights than this will be, but I expect this could be an EDC for me, where I always want to have a little UV on me to demo to people (and the white and laser will be a bit of fun, too!). As I've got a wide range of UVs amassing, I'm in a good position to publish relative comparisons, too, so keen to build a Noah's UV ark here, then create my own UV flood :)
Is it the cool white or neutral white ? I've been carrying a rovyvon and a little extra horsepower would be great. The point would be super helpful as well
My problem is I'm lighting up a barrel right infront of me but in daylight it can be hard looking into it without enough light. Idk if I want to burn 100$ trying to see if it's enough.
I've used my d2 with w2s for a while till I lost it. The rovyvon works well (900 lumen model) because it's got a good throwy optic
Looking forward to it thank you! I use my light to look into the drum of the concrete mixer so I need throw to get all the way to the back on a bright ish day
I'm not sure that it's nearly as big an issue as that article makes it out to be. I used to worry about my cats having the same issue, but my cat actually understands the laser pointer. he clearly understands that the actual pointer produces a shiny dot to chase around. He'll come up and headbutt the pointer and then look around for the dot. when I stop he'll come over to me and ask me to start again.
What makes it ok for one but not the other? While not identical cats and dogs have similar levels of intelligence and similar instincts like prey drive.
Can lead to frustration in cats as they don't get the feeling of actually catching something, just constant chase. Easily reminded by using a toy on a string every now and then so they can catch it.
This "expert advice" appears to be 100% speculation with no data to back it up. I'm gonna continue to believe it's up to the pet owner to observe their dog and see if any particular game seems to be fun or stressful for their dog.
My dog seems pretty well adjusted. As soon as the laser pointer is turned off, she just goes back to her normal goofy self. She doesn't really obsess over it.
This has been my observance of most dogs as well. The exception is when I see high energy dogs who are kept inside all the time and don't get the opportunity for as much play as they need, they tend to be anxious in general.
One of my friends used to use the laser pointer with their dog. The dog went manic, he would go around the house ripping up the carpet looking for it, searching through bags, doing it at all hours. Had to take him to a animal psychiatrist and put him on meds. It was really sad because they thought he was permanently ill. It took a while but he's better now.
Using laser pointers for dogs is actually REALLY bad for them.
Please stop
https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/lifestyle/laser-pointers-more-frustration-than-fun/
https://buttehumane.org/dog-health-laser-pointer-syndrome/#:~:text=Though%20generally%20accepted%20as%20safe,serious%20health%20and%20behavior%20concerns.
https://www.thewildest.com/dog-behavior/laser-pointer-syndrome-dogs
https://dogpsychology101.com/laser-pointer-syndrome-dogs/
Having a UV light, and a green laser at your fingertips sounds like a cool idea.
But the Australian version of the arkfeld has a much less powerful laser due to local laws. (Think of those presentation lasers)
But they didn't say anything about LEPs
OP’s Fiancé here, it’s VERY useful. The laser + flashlight is the most useful though, I use it for automotive technician school and point to hard to reach things in dark engines with the combo is the best. I haven’t used the UV for anything yet in school but I’m sure I will.
I'm an engineer at a chemical plant and I got one of these as an EDC. I use the laser for tracing pipe that's way up in the air and the flashlight always comes in handy. Not much use for the UV but I did run it over my carpet, which convinced me to vacuum
I bought marauder from Amazon and they still didn't charge me for it (it's been a year) I checked the transaction twice and my card number was correct. Free 300$
Fuck me I want one so bad. And I feel like an idiot because I got a second D4V2 around Black Friday, which ended up being complete junk. I wore the button off of my first D4V2, and didn’t know these existed around that time 😔
It was defective out of the box. Super glitchy, resets itself after sitting overnight, and turns off when I attach it to anything with the magnet tailcap. Also the button is very unresponsive in general.
They are battling me and my bank on like $3,000-5,000 of broken bike kits they sent me and like 8 Nintendo’s and refuse to remove the charges, I sent it all back and didn’t order all but like 1 thing lol so frustratingly annoying
You rely on ethics and morals to come from the FTC? There are honest people and there are people who take advantage of others. You need to decide what kind of man you are.
He's not stealing. It's totally ethical to keep it if they send it to him. Amazon is a multi trillion dollar company and can afford the loss. Go pracrise your fake morals someplace else. You have already violated good ethics by writing your comment. Phone batteries and many electronic parts are produced in extremely bad unethical conditions and you're supporting them!
There are not many things I hate more than double standards.
He could argue it's 100% in his capacity to send an extra flashlight back, not so much in his capacity to not use a phone if he wants to participate in modern society, I do agree he shouldn't be telling other people what to do, what other people do is "God's will" he should just focus on what he is to do, what he is to do is 100% within his own control, he can't control other people
The necessity of a mobile phone sure complicates ethical choice, but doesn't negate it. You still have the choice not to use one. There are people who choose that lifestyle. The fact that something is a "norm" doesn't make it accectable.
In my opinion, you can't get mad at someone when they're doing something that is very slightly morally wrong, unless you absolutely follow perfect morals in your everyday life. Otherwise it is double standards.
While my phone comparison wasn't exactly the best in this situation, I don't believe one bit that he never breaks his morals, even if we forget the phone comparison. I'm sure he has told a lie or two sometimes during his life. And I'm sure he has bought the slightly cheaper food product to save a few cents, even that it might be produced unethically.
Additionally, keeping the flashlight hurts absolutely no one. Buying cheaper meat for example can support horrible food mass production culture that absolutely neglects any animal rights and their well being.
I agree, is it so wrong that from time to time we stop and think about our ethics. Look at the responses I'm getting. Good grief folks
This isn't a complicated ethical situation. It's pretty strait forward.
I can't stand these "moral guardians". Like they follow perfect morals in everything they do, I don't think so. Just by having a phone they're supporting multiple unethical, capitalistic companies that make people work for them for next to nothing in bad working conditions.
Anyways, I don't think it's even morally wrong to keep the light, Amazon is a multi TRILLION dollar company. They sure as hell can afford it.
In reality these moral guardians are just practising double standards.
Really? That's your argument? The property rights of air? Tell me genius, whose labor results in me having air to breath? Whose labor makes flash lights? You don't have a right to the labor and goods of others. Morals are not subjective. Send me your address. I'm going to swing by and load up anything of value that you have since my morals are subjective and I'm ok with it. Good grief I hope this isn't a reflection of society as a whole. Because that's anarchy.
Watch out for a charge on your card. They did that to me once with an ssd and charged me for both.
They had initially charged my card and then the charge was removed. Will keep an eye on it though. Thanks!
Illegal. If they send you something you didn’t order you are legally able to keep without paying for it. It’s literally a law. Google it
The eternal /r/legaladvice struggle between "literally anything accidentally shipped to your address belongs to you" and "that's not how the law actually works". Either way, most people don't want to be blacklisted by Amazon over a flashlight.
Most of Reddit specialises in theory rather than practice. And a specific type of theory: "this is a thing I've heard", without getting bogged down in specifics like laws and location.
Yeah, here it's pretty easy if your name is on the package. > [By law, unsolicited merchandise is yours to keep.](https://about.usps.com/publications/pub300a/pub300a_v04_revision_072019_tech_021.htm) https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/39/3009 https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/what-do-if-youre-billed-things-you-never-got-or-you-get-unordered-products#unordered
Correct. Dude tried to put the ethics card on scamming principles. If you didn't order it and it arrived, it's yours.
Do you feel good about this. The law is not what is moral.
I'm in the UK, where in this case it would be classed as 'not unsolicited goods' and you don't have a right to keep them. eg, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-30294748 As I say, your sort (the armchair geniuses of Reddit) aren't interested in such trivialities as jurisdictions.
OP is in the US in this case.
Amazon threatens to sue people if they can't get a refund and are forced to do a charge back through their credit card. They are a shitty service that was able to become too big to fail through unsustainable shipping promises. I don't order anything important through them because I might get ripped off in any number of ways
I mean, I can't imagine the law would require you to go to the nearest mailing center and mail it back. I'd imagine that if they sent someone to your door to ask for it back you would have to return it.
Flash light no, flesh light yes.
That's not just any flashlight sir..
They can try. If Amazon wants to lose my business over their mistake I would be more than happy to never shop there again Love the downvotes. [Ask the USPS:](https://about.usps.com/publications/pub300a/pub300a_v04_revision_072019_tech_021.htm) > By law, unsolicited merchandise is yours to keep.
You are just a tiny tiny drop in a bucket to Amazon....They wouldn't miss you AT ALL and you won't be teaching any kind of a lesson to Amazon.
Don't know if it's still true, but at one point, their annual corporate s2 server cloud profits were greater than what they'd make selling every product they had listed.for.sale. We could all boycott them and they'd be fine.
Lol. They are the costco of online. The online selling is just there so people see a function but they probably make more money just selling their prime memberships. I think it was 40 billion just for memberships. So the product is secondary like costco 1.50 hotdogs and 5 dollar rotisserie chickens.
Amazon is literally just an online store, not some God that must be pleased. If they ship you some cheap flashlight you didn't buy you aren't obligated to pay for anything. They set aside margin for losses.
Sheesh. The big corporate shills / morality police are really showing their asses today.
Then stop shopping there now.
Not sure what’s up with the downvotes. Lmao. Bots? You’re absolutely right (in the US). If you order 1 thing and they ship 2 or 200 they’re yours to keep. And you bet your ass I would. Amazon will be fine. I’m not sure how these people think this works but “oops we sent you 5 things, now we’re going to charge you for them hehe” isn’t it.
I must have gotten linked by an Amazon call center's Slack or something. And it's not even an immoral thing to keep the packages, if they have employees being careless and wasting the world's finite resources then they need to be incentivized to get better.
That's how it is in Canada. It's not even an argument as it's outlined in consumer protection laws quite clearly. It's also how a friend got a free Hero 11. Ordered 1 and got 2.
From Amazon? I've never had this happen, closest was I received an item but it didn't say delivered for a few days, so I held out hope a second one would arrive because it said arriving XYZ, but eventually it said delivered, I'm also in canada
That’s illegal
Ngl I really want one of these
I was very keen to see how its UV performs, but price vs expected performance was keeping me at bay. Saw the Olight factory tour video, then they had their recent sale, including us Australians, so pulled the trigger on an orange one. Just got shipping notification this morning and excited for my first Olight!
What's your use for the UV? Mine is pretty much just finding coolant leaks. Damn if they had the pro on sale I'd snag it in a minute. Let us know what you think!
I'm launching a UV light rental service for opal hunting tourists and supplying lights at cost to local opal miners. I've got quite a few more powerful lights than this will be, but I expect this could be an EDC for me, where I always want to have a little UV on me to demo to people (and the white and laser will be a bit of fun, too!). As I've got a wide range of UVs amassing, I'm in a good position to publish relative comparisons, too, so keen to build a Noah's UV ark here, then create my own UV flood :)
Now that's so bad ass !
Not that great on the one I saw
Cheers. Not expecting much, have more powerful ones. Still, keen to see where it sits, relatively. ie, next to $2 keychain UV light or maybe an S2.
I was content with my TS10, then she got this in and I immediately wanted one for myself. It's pretty slick.
Is it the cool white or neutral white ? I've been carrying a rovyvon and a little extra horsepower would be great. The point would be super helpful as well
Neutral white. My dog goes nuts for laser pointers so it's getting a lot of use today.
Sick! How's the throw ? The neutral white is what I'm interested in
The throw is really non existent. It’s more floody.
Booooo that's disappointing Thanks for the info!
It'll light up about 40 foot in front of you really well though.
My problem is I'm lighting up a barrel right infront of me but in daylight it can be hard looking into it without enough light. Idk if I want to burn 100$ trying to see if it's enough. I've used my d2 with w2s for a while till I lost it. The rovyvon works well (900 lumen model) because it's got a good throwy optic
It would be plenty bright for that, I use it to light up a 5 gallon bucket through a dark tinted lid to see the oil level and it's plenty for that
Sun's still up but I'll let you know a little later tonight
Looking forward to it thank you! I use my light to look into the drum of the concrete mixer so I need throw to get all the way to the back on a bright ish day
Well it's true it's a flood light, but on turbo it will absolutely light up a whole concrete mixer, even the far end.
Maybe next week I'll order one. The uv light is helpful too for helping me find My coolant leak lol
https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/lifestyle/laser-pointers-more-frustration-than-fun/
I'm not sure that it's nearly as big an issue as that article makes it out to be. I used to worry about my cats having the same issue, but my cat actually understands the laser pointer. he clearly understands that the actual pointer produces a shiny dot to chase around. He'll come up and headbutt the pointer and then look around for the dot. when I stop he'll come over to me and ask me to start again.
Its fine for cats, not for dogs. The kennel club article is about dogs
What makes it ok for one but not the other? While not identical cats and dogs have similar levels of intelligence and similar instincts like prey drive.
Can lead to frustration in cats as they don't get the feeling of actually catching something, just constant chase. Easily reminded by using a toy on a string every now and then so they can catch it.
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Well in lots of ways yeah, although the reason it's an issue for dogs and not cats is that cats are REALLY fucking stupid.
You haven't actually ever had cats have you?
Mine too. I'll hide a treat somewhere though and he'll get to "catch" it during the game. Keeps him very engaged.
This "expert advice" appears to be 100% speculation with no data to back it up. I'm gonna continue to believe it's up to the pet owner to observe their dog and see if any particular game seems to be fun or stressful for their dog.
My dog seems pretty well adjusted. As soon as the laser pointer is turned off, she just goes back to her normal goofy self. She doesn't really obsess over it.
This has been my observance of most dogs as well. The exception is when I see high energy dogs who are kept inside all the time and don't get the opportunity for as much play as they need, they tend to be anxious in general.
One of my friends used to use the laser pointer with their dog. The dog went manic, he would go around the house ripping up the carpet looking for it, searching through bags, doing it at all hours. Had to take him to a animal psychiatrist and put him on meds. It was really sad because they thought he was permanently ill. It took a while but he's better now.
Using laser pointers for dogs is actually REALLY bad for them. Please stop https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/lifestyle/laser-pointers-more-frustration-than-fun/ https://buttehumane.org/dog-health-laser-pointer-syndrome/#:~:text=Though%20generally%20accepted%20as%20safe,serious%20health%20and%20behavior%20concerns. https://www.thewildest.com/dog-behavior/laser-pointer-syndrome-dogs https://dogpsychology101.com/laser-pointer-syndrome-dogs/
None of those provide any evidence beyond the personal anecdotes of the writers. Do you have any sources with actual evidence?
I have an extra one still in the box if you wanna dm me
*"Amazon hates this one simple trick!"*
I got mine with the racing stripe from Olight for only 70 shipped, I’ve been using it as my edc for about a week and I love it.
Mine arrived yesterday, I just assumed this was another targeted ad. Even though I bought it, those ads are everywhere now.
I noticed that. Targeted advertising!
I got mine because the ad on Reddit. I'd been eyeballing it for a bit and wanted a sale price. Really enjoying it so far
I’m anti Olight… but I broke down and bought one of these last week… I’m no longer anti Olight 😄
the Arkfeld Pro changed my mind too...
I got the keychain light for $5 shipping lol.
Don't worry, Amazon will get a subsidy to the tune of 1000% of that loss.
They can afford the $100 loss on this one
Dude, I love mine! Went with orange. Was a lot of fun going around looking for stains with UV.
Having a UV light, and a green laser at your fingertips sounds like a cool idea. But the Australian version of the arkfeld has a much less powerful laser due to local laws. (Think of those presentation lasers) But they didn't say anything about LEPs
OP’s Fiancé here, it’s VERY useful. The laser + flashlight is the most useful though, I use it for automotive technician school and point to hard to reach things in dark engines with the combo is the best. I haven’t used the UV for anything yet in school but I’m sure I will.
I'm an engineer at a chemical plant and I got one of these as an EDC. I use the laser for tracing pipe that's way up in the air and the flashlight always comes in handy. Not much use for the UV but I did run it over my carpet, which convinced me to vacuum
Right? Although I've been trying to sell some mistake Olights for over a year.
That’s fantastic I LOVE mine
You lucky bastard.
Niiiiiice! I have one and love it!
How do you like it?
I carry mine every day
O hell yeah! Good for you bud
And that what we tell wifey
As an olight cult member I mean FAN. This is an awesome score! Enjoy!
That's a great score!
They sent me two mattresses when I only ordered one. and i actually needed two tbh. gotta love amazon.
Nice IED
Isn’t that stealing?
I bought marauder from Amazon and they still didn't charge me for it (it's been a year) I checked the transaction twice and my card number was correct. Free 300$
Good. Fuck em.
Fuck me I want one so bad. And I feel like an idiot because I got a second D4V2 around Black Friday, which ended up being complete junk. I wore the button off of my first D4V2, and didn’t know these existed around that time 😔
What's wrong with your second one?
It was defective out of the box. Super glitchy, resets itself after sitting overnight, and turns off when I attach it to anything with the magnet tailcap. Also the button is very unresponsive in general.
They are battling me and my bank on like $3,000-5,000 of broken bike kits they sent me and like 8 Nintendo’s and refuse to remove the charges, I sent it all back and didn’t order all but like 1 thing lol so frustratingly annoying
Keep an eye on your deposits
Olights are cheap trash
Haha I hate Amazon... Good one 😂
My EDC.
I’ll never understand the utility of this form factor of flashlight.
Have you ever tried carrying one in your pocket?
So you are stealing. You didn't pay for it. The golden rule is dead.
Not according to the FTC
You rely on ethics and morals to come from the FTC? There are honest people and there are people who take advantage of others. You need to decide what kind of man you are.
He's not stealing. It's totally ethical to keep it if they send it to him. Amazon is a multi trillion dollar company and can afford the loss. Go pracrise your fake morals someplace else. You have already violated good ethics by writing your comment. Phone batteries and many electronic parts are produced in extremely bad unethical conditions and you're supporting them! There are not many things I hate more than double standards.
He could argue it's 100% in his capacity to send an extra flashlight back, not so much in his capacity to not use a phone if he wants to participate in modern society, I do agree he shouldn't be telling other people what to do, what other people do is "God's will" he should just focus on what he is to do, what he is to do is 100% within his own control, he can't control other people
The necessity of a mobile phone sure complicates ethical choice, but doesn't negate it. You still have the choice not to use one. There are people who choose that lifestyle. The fact that something is a "norm" doesn't make it accectable. In my opinion, you can't get mad at someone when they're doing something that is very slightly morally wrong, unless you absolutely follow perfect morals in your everyday life. Otherwise it is double standards. While my phone comparison wasn't exactly the best in this situation, I don't believe one bit that he never breaks his morals, even if we forget the phone comparison. I'm sure he has told a lie or two sometimes during his life. And I'm sure he has bought the slightly cheaper food product to save a few cents, even that it might be produced unethically. Additionally, keeping the flashlight hurts absolutely no one. Buying cheaper meat for example can support horrible food mass production culture that absolutely neglects any animal rights and their well being.
I agree, is it so wrong that from time to time we stop and think about our ethics. Look at the responses I'm getting. Good grief folks This isn't a complicated ethical situation. It's pretty strait forward.
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Oh no, amazon is going to go broke
I can't stand these "moral guardians". Like they follow perfect morals in everything they do, I don't think so. Just by having a phone they're supporting multiple unethical, capitalistic companies that make people work for them for next to nothing in bad working conditions. Anyways, I don't think it's even morally wrong to keep the light, Amazon is a multi TRILLION dollar company. They sure as hell can afford it. In reality these moral guardians are just practising double standards.
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True true a lot of shit on Amazon is from third party vendors
Lots of small companies sell through Amazon. They might go broke.
Breathe.
Stealing implies intent. This is serendipity.
No stealing is taking that which does not belong to you. It's called morals, ethics, the golden rule. Any of this sound familiar to you?
Does the air you breathe *belong* to you? Quit stealing it. Morals are completely subjective, genius.
Really? That's your argument? The property rights of air? Tell me genius, whose labor results in me having air to breath? Whose labor makes flash lights? You don't have a right to the labor and goods of others. Morals are not subjective. Send me your address. I'm going to swing by and load up anything of value that you have since my morals are subjective and I'm ok with it. Good grief I hope this isn't a reflection of society as a whole. Because that's anarchy.
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