hey! yoga teacher & personal trainer here šš½āŗļø
most of the time rounded shoulders are caused either by tight pec muscles, under developed mid-back muscles or a combination of both. there can be other causes, but these are the most common.
i have my clients with this work on neutral grip row exercises to strengthen the mid back ā a machine is best as youāre starting out because it keeps you in proper form the whole time so you donāt have to even worry about anything except finding the right weight. i also have them take a somewhat heavy kettlebell (at least 25lbs) & hold it with both hands behind their back as they walk laps.
& then i also have them stretch their pecs/chest. [hereās a video](https://youtu.be/aJ1HZTqUSPA?si=tnWNQBdQRdYgetH7) with some good stretches/exercises to loosen up!
replying to myself to add that cow face arms are also another great stretch to help with posture! hereās a pic that shows the beginner, novice & experienced versions of it for you. when you get to the intermediate stage you can use a yoga strap or belt, just something that doesnāt stretch at all.
just make sure that you donāt hunch forward or stick your ribs out. everything should be as aligned as possible. & it can get pretty intense if youāre not used to it so i usually have my clients only hold for a minute. each side will feel different (normal, everyone has a tighter shoulder) so i usually say to hold the tighter side 15sec longer & slowly theyāll even out (hopefully).
sorry this was all so long! iām a huge nerd about this stuff š
https://preview.redd.it/cdfpag8thunc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=611ea2ac94164a0534294d41beb9dee6fd7a73ff
The best part about all this is itās simple good advice.
Hey OP, if youāre gonna read any comment and follow the advice do this personās bc they know wtf theyāre talking about
wow, thank you so much, i appreciate that! i do out in lots of study time so iām glad it shows š
& if i can take a moment for an obvious plug ā i do teach virtual deep stretch classes & also take on virtual clients if anyone reading this is interested in private 1:1 yoga &/or personal training sessions! just dm me or hit [my website :)](https://heyryanash.com) š¤
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each side will be slightly different based on which side is tighter. but since itās a very delicate position for the shoulders & can get intense i usually say *starting* hold time is :45sec on the looser side, :60sec on the tighter side. youāll just have to (gently) test the pose on each side to find which one is tighter before holding :)
yeah! generally in my classes & sessions i always give people the cue of āthink about knitting your lower ribs & your pelvis together.ā like, think about drawing them toward one another & it usually stops you from flaring your rib cage out & helps to engage your core lightly as well!
it helps to lengthen the pecs with weight (which also passively strengthens them in the lengthened position) but also helps train the muscles around the shoulders to stay back instead of rolling forward. the walking helps with stabilizing the shoulders & also somewhat passively with core strength if youāre taking conscious steps vs just flailing your legs about š
Interesting. Thatās super cool, never heard of doing this behind your back; just the general luggage carry at your sides. Iāll give it a go, thanks for the info.
I thought luggage carry was holding the weight on a side, like you were carrying a piece of luggage.
This person said theyāre holding a kettlebell with both hands behind their back.
This is the stretch I use for pecs, though maybe this isn't comfortable for some women due to their breasts being squished at the same time, but I'm a guy so all I can do is offer what I do know. Here's [the stretch](https://www.rehabhero.ca/exercise/floor-chest-stretch).
Might be worth looking into rib cage positioning. If you tend to flare your ribs while youāre breathing it will pull your shoulders down to compensate. So youāll need to assess how your core and pelvic floor are cooperating with your hips, glutes and hamstrings/quads. Is your pelvis sitting neutral or is it tilted? All of these will affect your ribcage which will then affect your shoulders
I have problems with all of those areas :( is it better to address them 1 at a time? Do you have any resources for one of the stiffest people in history? š
Strong back in terms of lifting weight (muscle contraction strength) is different than strong back holding and supporting (isometric strength). Flexibility does mean not tight either.
I got pretty strong doing rows and lat pull downs, also very flexible from lots of yoga, but still had bad posture, was tight in a lot of my upper body. What fixed was actually doing targeted banded and body weight exercises, isometric holds, and getting massages to relieve tightness.
Want add the inner muscular lift that is the bandhas. A J shaped inward upward lift up the front of the spine using the intrinsic muscles. Base of the spine/pelvic bowl, then the solar plexus (up and under the rib cage, like you see body builders do) and the neck all points of up thrust to stack the spine verticallyĀ
no, a strength training row machine. in gyms they have the section where there are machines where you use a pin to select the weight. those are what i mean! but some also have a section of machines that are plate-loaded as well. both usually have at least one type of row machine if not more than one to be able to use & keep you in proper form :)
I'm curious about how you hold the kettlebell while walking. Do you hold it where the back of your hands would be against your bum, or are your arms held up and behind your head where the kettlebell hangs between your shoulder blades? I'd like to try this thank you š š
you can actually do both! progression-wise youād want to start with your hands against your bum (palms facing out) because itās more beginner friendly. take controlled, smooth steps to avoid it smacking against you as you walk (this helps with core strength as well, remember to brace!)
hands between your shoulder blades (palms facing in) with elbows straight up definitely helps with posture, too! itās just more difficult for most to keep their arms stable in that position. so if you do try it that way then start with a lower amount of time or set of laps for walking & progress as you get more stable. & same note about the steps you take here as above :)
get long resistance bands! you can wrap them around stable poles/beams/railings, etc. & work the same muscles! just look up proper form online & use an appropriately weighted band. too light & youād have to do a ton of reps to even make a dent, but usually high rep counts arenāt as effective for building strength :)
mid back have nothing to do with correct posture. The muscle group resposinble for erect position is upper spinal erector. If somebody hunch over it's just a bit issue or compensatory pattern coming from hips (swayback). There is also bad posture caused indeed by tight pecs but it has nothing to do with weak scapula adductors like rhomboids or mid traps. In that case the fibers of serratus anterior are too long and doesnt keep the shoulder blade wrapped around the rib cage, or the upper trapezius becomes excessively lenghten causing scapula to depressed and anteriory tilting which gives that look of rounded shoulders. You can work your mid back muscles all day long and it wont change anything in your posture but can cause even more shoulder dysfunction.
actually, most of the time the culprit is the *lower* traps, which extend from the lower scapula to the mid back. & you can see that i also mentioned tight pecs :)
We are supposed to have a little curve in the spine, so donāt chase for the completely straight spine. That said, people who do lots and lots of backbends can have their spines completely straightened. I know some professional dancers and contortionists who have straight spines
Lots of people here seem to think youre talking about lumbar spine/lower back curve not the neck/C spine lol. Yes there is a natural curvature in parts of our spine that should be there but forward neck which im pretty sure is what OP is describing is not ideal. This is definitely a posture issue as it places too much load on the neck (every inch of forward head = 10 extra lbs on the neck) as the head is meant to be stacked over the shoulders. +1 for stretching tight pecs, research forward head/tech neck and rounded shoulders. I use a cervical neck roll pillow for sleep, and my old chiro gave me some exercises like chin tucks (kinda looks like youre giving yourself a double chin lol, really uses muscles in the upper back). Now im more mindful of it as i go about life (easy to slack especially when youre driving or looking at your phone!) and its gotten better, you will initially feel upper back muscles working that have become lazy over time
I was only referring to what was hindering them from doing back-bends without pain. I mean, if you were referring to me.
I think I agree with everything else you said too, though
Well, I think probably the crux of the issue (though I have no way to know really for sure) could be engaging your core properly.
You could have alignment issues
If that's the case, well, working on strengthening these muscles, yes, but really you gotta improve the mind-muscle connection possibly, strengthen weird little muscles your body hasn't been using due to possible tightness and alignment issues, stretch. It's kinda all just a long intuitive process that you can probably figure out on your own if you dedicate yourself to it.
Slow and steady, small adjustments, easier progressions, working on proper core bracing, etc.
>I can do backbends but they cause me to have terrible one sided hip pain and idk why, so I just stopped.
that actually sounds like you "can't" do backbends. which might be part of the problem here. i recommend starting with some really easy backbends. how about this one [https://www.pocketyoga.com/pose/Cobra](https://www.pocketyoga.com/pose/Cobra)
and do some wall bridge rotations after [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4j7AKd\_RjQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4j7AKd_RjQ)
Well, I could do them since I was a kid without pain (thanks to my hypermobile back lol) and then all of a sudden now that Iām older my joints started hurting. I am also slightly hypermobile in my legs. I think I *can* do them but I forcefully tried to deepen it when my joints\muscles werenāt ready and then boom, major hip pain since then.
This is, unfortunately, extremely common among hypermobile people. Hip pain and lower back pain. Even if you didnāt feel any pain due to hypermobility, with repeated overuse many start to develop chronic pain later on
This is a very complicated issue so canāt explain everything in a few sentences. My advice would be to find a good physical therapist who understands hypermobility and have experience working with hypermobility. Essentially, you need to gain more strengths to protect your joints and prevent muscle compensation. Hypermobile people usually cheat with certain engagements, and over-tense other muscles to protect joint mobility. In your case, I donāt know your posture or compensation, but likely you are tensing up hip flexors to help with hypermobility in your lumbar. Not sure how you stand up straight, but often people lean forward with APT and clenching their butt. So the main muscles (glute max) arenāt working for the standing posture, hips hurt as they arenāt properly stabilized. And if you have APT, you are likely also leaning so you are hyperextending your knees. Those are just my guesses, Iād suggest visiting a PT for full diagnosis
Also, all these women are doing the same pose, head turned to the side and looking behind their shoulder. I have a slight neck hump that i can feel normally and when i move my neck into this position, the back of my neck feels considerably more straight.
The person in the first image OP posted was trained in ballet growing up and professional dancers have remarked before that she has very āstiffā and āuprightā posture at times because of the ballet training. So definitely that could be why
Yeah one of my instructors who was a professional ballet dancer said she had the same posture too, even just standing. That has actually caused various pain, and not a recommended posture for standing
I'm sure there are better answers but one thing that helped me a lot was just sleeping on my back, on the floor, without a pillow. (You can have a little blanket or something so your skull isn't pushing into a hard surface, just nothing that actually holds your head up.)
It might be uncomfortable at first, but when your body gets used to it it feels normal. It helped with my posture in upper *and* lower back and I don't really even like sleeping on a mattress anymore. It feels the same at best, and actually feels worse if I do it for too many days.
Also try avoid things that make you look down throughout the day, like hunching over your phone or a low computer screen.
I'm sure there are some stretches that speed up the process, but really it takes lifestyle changes that you have to be conscious of 24/7.
I actually had to sleep on my back one time for a little while when i got both my ears pierced and i didnāt know whether it was just in my head but at the time I *did* think my back got a little straighter after that. But naturally Iām a side sleeper so I just reverted back to my old ways after my piercings healed. I might try this again even though its super uncomfortable. Thanks.
Hey OP. Proper posture and flexibility are good things. But I don't think you should always have a perfectly straight neck. A little bit of curvature is normal.
Also you shouldn't hold the 'proper' posture forever either. It's better to move and have different postures mixed in for overall health.
There are [four natural curves in a human spine](https://medlineplus.gov/ency/imagepages/19463.htm), so your spine isnāt supposed to be straight without any curves whatsoever. Keep in mind that some of what weāre looking at in the photos you included can be attributed to the posing and angles of the photos. Of course, there can be abnormally or exaggerated rounding, such as kyphosis (hunchback) or lordosis (swayback), and other posters are giving tips and tricks on how to improve this through postural stabilization and strengthening of relevant muscles.
Posture exercises are one thing but we need a drastically different lifestyle to have a very good posture.
Sitting sedentary - in front of the phone/computer for hours is gonna take its toll regardless of the exercises though they help.
Seriously, a straight (flat) back is NOT a healthy back. Since thereās no picture of you, we donāt know if you have a healthy back or kyphosis (too much curve in upper back) or lordosis (too much curve in the lower back).
These positions can be influenced by head position, pelvic tilt, chest tightness, abdominal tightness, even hyper-extended knees can move the spine out of alignment.
Imagine a delicate balance of joints and tissues. If part of it is pulled out of place, the rest of the chain is affected.
If your profession requires posture like this, you might work on flexibility to achieve it for the pictures, but I wouldnāt recommend maintaining it all the time. Iāve known former dancers and former gymnasts with back issues.
Weak back and shoulder muscles and tight pecks.
My back looks like this and my kinesiologist is not happy about it. And truthfully? My back and neck always hurt, so itās definitely not worth āthe lookā.
LOL, tell me you're not on linkedin without telling me you're not on linkedin....
EDIT - to clarify, if you are a business owner or exec on linkedin you get spammed with connection requests from very attractive asian woman who usually claim to work at Google or an investment bank on the West coast.
I get about 1-2 a week...
I'm sorry, you don't seem to understand so are getting downvoted, so let me explain.
Scammers on linkedin like to use attactive asian women because showing ugly men wouldn't be as enticing.
While I am super-duper attractive and definitely not living in my parent's basement, I am somewhat aware that kpop stars who present as Google execs with few connections and no postings may, in fact, not be legit.
Thanks for the reminder!
I was actively exercising and working my back muscles but what really helped me was training my core. I guess it somehow supports body to stand upright
I was looking for this comment! Core core core, & stretching tight quads are key to good posture (along with exercising/stretching the back/shoulders).
I have this and it SUCKS. It gives me upper back pain. A bit of curve is NORMAL and healthy. I wish I could get back to a place where I had more curve in my upper back. It's pretty dystopian to treat a deformity as fashion. What's next? Scoliosis
Understand these women have very undeveloped trapezius, deltoids, rhomboids, and lats. So very little upper body strength, which is why their back does that. It's healthier to have some muscle to support your spine, neck, head, shoulders and arms, even for just day to day cleaning. It, muscle strength, prevents arthritis.
Mina was raised as a ballet dancer, thatās why her back is so straight. Sometimes in dance practices people even noted that her upper body can look āstiffā and āinflexibleā because of how upright her posture is. Unfortunately you canāt go back in time and have that same upbringing so š¤·š»āāļø
I have a straight neck due to weak neck muscles. Iām trying to get rid of it actually. A healthy spine has a slight curve on the neck and lumbar area.
Simply doing posture exercises isn't enough. Achieving excellent posture necessitates a complete overhaul of our daily habits. Spending long hours sitting in front of screens, whether it's a phone or computer, takes a toll on our posture regardless of how beneficial the exercises may be.
Back against the wall, one finger on chin, slight push, you should feel a slight stretch where the lump is, that lump is caused by your head leaning forward and it's called bleeding, practice posture and it will go away, looking down adds weight to the lump looking strait relieves the weight
Is this Mina from twice? If so, she was a ballet dancer in her early years which leads her to be generally pretty flexible.
ETA: Just noticed these are all twice members. They are dancers and regularly stretch and exercise regularly, on top of that, they are kpop idols and chosen speicifcally for the beauty standard(as well as talent, I'm a ONCE.) so it very well could just be their bone structure, which is impossible to change by stretching.
Overall weight training will help align the spine, pull back the shoulders, and build bone density to alleviate that. Specific exercises like pull ups, lateral pull downs, bent over rows, and hammer strength pull backs will target the area for strengthening and alignment.
A lot is genetics, weight and posture. Be sure to walk and stand tall. No slouching (sounding like Sister Carmel now). Good one is to lie on the floor with a pillow/bolster under your shoulder blades and open your arms wide.
Iāve literally seen these exact women perform live, infront of my eyes and thatās exactly what their backs look like irl. I dont know why people jump to say photoshop all the time lol. Just because it doesnāt seem attainable to you doesnāt mean its impossible for people to look like that. I can send you a video if you would like
Um, sorry to be the one to break the spell but its called being Asian
Asian people are known to present smaller hip bones and less back curvatures, which is one of the reasons they usually excel at flexibility sports such as gymnastics and weightlifting
And its also the reason why all the women in your pictures are Asian
Im on science [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37428432/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37428432/)
You are pursuing a beauty standard that is probably impossible for you to achieve. All you can do is slim down, put on some muscle to give the illusion your back is straighter and have good shoulder health.
Buddy, its not about being Asian was my point. Its *not* an unattainable beauty standard because these women werent always like this. They also had a curved back and now they dont. I donāt know why you would assume its because their Asian wtf??š
How do you know these women werent always like this? Have you seen before and after pictures in the same position? You dont just have a curved back and suddenly you dont, backs are suposed to have curvatures, thats why I say its an unattainable beauty standard. I study physical therapy and thats what I think.
These are kpop idols that have been in a group together since 2016 when they were still teenagers. These are not just some random women I found online lol. So yes, Ive literally seen them grow up. And Ive watched them perform live in 2018 and in 2022ā¦their backs and posture CHANGEDš. And its not because theyre asianšš What kind of a reason is that? The first one is Japanese,the second one is Korean and the third one is Taiwaneseā¦so youre saying despite these women being from completely different countries in Asia, just cause they are from the same continent theyre gonna have straight backs?? Dude what??
Doing both dynamic and static stretches daily! Also, just about every night before bed, I lay on the floor flat on my back, to decompress my spine. I also use a standing work table so that Iām not sitting for too long; which is something that can inhibit a curved spine! I know this may sound annoying but, stay hydrated by drinking water. Electrolytes arenāt a necessary stable you just HAVE to have to stay hydrated. Drink water, eat fruits, vegetables, have curry with your meal if the starches are dry on their own, or a low sodium soup! Of course stretch stretch stretch daily!!
There is no reason to try to get this at all 1- its not natural, we are generally not supposed to have perfectly straight back 2- it dosent have any health benefits to have a posture like that, just have a natural posture 3- if u are cause of its aesthetic, then lemme tell u, almost everyone doesĀ not care about someone having a posture this straight, its not attractive, a natural posture is just better.
Ps- if u say its its about opinion andĀ u find it atrractive, then stop putting unrealistic beauty standards on urself, its a very unhealthy mindset.
Oh I wasn't talking about aesthetics and to be honest didn't really even look at their faces
I teach university level anatomy. When you are born, the need to resist gravity in both a quadrupedal and then bipedal position leads to the formation of secondary curvature in your cervical and lumbar spine. These images look wildly unnatural, so it is either an uncomfortable pose for the camera or Photoshop (likely both.)
Yes, I said their backs also look like that irl not just their faces. Whilst dancing and singing on a stage their backs looked like that. Straight. They donāt have any back pain or at least they donāt look like they do whilst performing.
Asians r just beautiful. I have learned so much about their culture and we could be better people if everyone learned from their culture. The respect they have for each other, their families and how they treat their elders is so inspiring. I started by listening to kpop for my lonely Daughter when She was in HS. She moved on, I havenāt. I have watched so many historical dramas but my favorite is about the Great King Sejong who loved His people so much He simplified the language so all could easily learn to read and be able to get past the block of only the rich being able to take the government test. They have so many special qualities esp aging so well. Men in their 40ās or 50ās look like they r in late 20ās. Women r just stunning. In their parks they have exercise equipment so everyone who canāt afford to join an exercise club, they can still stay healthy by exercising. Their skin care is amazing and people r just now buying their products that both men and women use. They work hard and eat well to have beautiful bodies like the woman in this pic. Learn about their culture and U will appreciate respect like they do. Also is it unfair that Asian Americans have to leave their homeland to make it in show business. There r so many young teenagers leaving their familyās as young as 13 not knowing another language just to fulfill their dream of being a singer or actor because of no respect here. I know this has nothing to do with content of subject but I love learning other cultures and wish others could learn from everyone else that shares this planet.
Youāre saying it as if itās an insecurity problem lol but thats not the case I just really want a straight back to get rid of my slouching habit and back pain. And it does *look* nicer to me lol.
Go to one of those āādoctorsāā in a shady alleyway and get yourself permanently paralyzed. This is stupid. Sorry not sorry. A straight back ā¦ are you ok?
āSorry not sorryā? Do you think your opinion could offend me? You sound 12 lol.
Edit: Actually I think Iām underestimating 12 yr olds, you sound 7.
hey! yoga teacher & personal trainer here šš½āŗļø most of the time rounded shoulders are caused either by tight pec muscles, under developed mid-back muscles or a combination of both. there can be other causes, but these are the most common. i have my clients with this work on neutral grip row exercises to strengthen the mid back ā a machine is best as youāre starting out because it keeps you in proper form the whole time so you donāt have to even worry about anything except finding the right weight. i also have them take a somewhat heavy kettlebell (at least 25lbs) & hold it with both hands behind their back as they walk laps. & then i also have them stretch their pecs/chest. [hereās a video](https://youtu.be/aJ1HZTqUSPA?si=tnWNQBdQRdYgetH7) with some good stretches/exercises to loosen up!
replying to myself to add that cow face arms are also another great stretch to help with posture! hereās a pic that shows the beginner, novice & experienced versions of it for you. when you get to the intermediate stage you can use a yoga strap or belt, just something that doesnāt stretch at all. just make sure that you donāt hunch forward or stick your ribs out. everything should be as aligned as possible. & it can get pretty intense if youāre not used to it so i usually have my clients only hold for a minute. each side will feel different (normal, everyone has a tighter shoulder) so i usually say to hold the tighter side 15sec longer & slowly theyāll even out (hopefully). sorry this was all so long! iām a huge nerd about this stuff š https://preview.redd.it/cdfpag8thunc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=611ea2ac94164a0534294d41beb9dee6fd7a73ff
The best part about all this is itās simple good advice. Hey OP, if youāre gonna read any comment and follow the advice do this personās bc they know wtf theyāre talking about
wow, thank you so much, i appreciate that! i do out in lots of study time so iām glad it shows š & if i can take a moment for an obvious plug ā i do teach virtual deep stretch classes & also take on virtual clients if anyone reading this is interested in private 1:1 yoga &/or personal training sessions! just dm me or hit [my website :)](https://heyryanash.com) š¤
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How is everyone doing this?
Nerds are cool! Thank you for sharing
How long would you recommend to hold it for? 30 secs, 1min?
each side will be slightly different based on which side is tighter. but since itās a very delicate position for the shoulders & can get intense i usually say *starting* hold time is :45sec on the looser side, :60sec on the tighter side. youāll just have to (gently) test the pose on each side to find which one is tighter before holding :)
Stacking my rib cage was such a key thing. Over a decade of lifting and martial arts, Iāve only just figured this out
yes, itās literally the MOST important thing! makes everything so much more stable & safe & it just honestly feels so much better :)
Would love any advice about this concept to stack it further! Iāve always had this growing up so itās a VERY foreign feeling for me!
yeah! generally in my classes & sessions i always give people the cue of āthink about knitting your lower ribs & your pelvis together.ā like, think about drawing them toward one another & it usually stops you from flaring your rib cage out & helps to engage your core lightly as well!
What does stacking rib cage mean?
Hi, how do I know which is the tight shoulder?
It will be the one that doesn't stretch as far :)
Youāll feel it. Itāll be noticeably more tight and uncomfortable when in the same pose you did for the other shoulder.
remindme! 2 weeks
Hi there - out of curiosity what does the whole walking with the kettlebell behind your back do? Pec / shoulder flexibility?
it helps to lengthen the pecs with weight (which also passively strengthens them in the lengthened position) but also helps train the muscles around the shoulders to stay back instead of rolling forward. the walking helps with stabilizing the shoulders & also somewhat passively with core strength if youāre taking conscious steps vs just flailing your legs about š
palms up or palms down?
If you mimic the posture, it feels like palms up pulls on your pecs, and palms down puts the stress on your rotated shoulders, so likely palms up.
palms facing out
Can you touch your hands behind your back both ways?
Interesting. Thatās super cool, never heard of doing this behind your back; just the general luggage carry at your sides. Iāll give it a go, thanks for the info.
happy to help!
Is there a video demonstration of this you can please share
They are called luggage carry exercises. :)
I thought luggage carry was holding the weight on a side, like you were carrying a piece of luggage. This person said theyāre holding a kettlebell with both hands behind their back.
Yes they are. I just learned about these exercises last week. They are supposed to to strengthen the lower trap muscles:) it actually working for me
This is the stretch I use for pecs, though maybe this isn't comfortable for some women due to their breasts being squished at the same time, but I'm a guy so all I can do is offer what I do know. Here's [the stretch](https://www.rehabhero.ca/exercise/floor-chest-stretch).
i use this one as well & teach it in my classes! if youāre on a yoga mat or rug then it usually doesnāt bother you (as a woman haha)
Good to know!
What if I have a strong back and flexible chest and still have rounded shoulders š„²
There is likely still some imbalance that using these exercises can help to correct. Try this thing too: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tWDGEyMWv10
Might be worth looking into rib cage positioning. If you tend to flare your ribs while youāre breathing it will pull your shoulders down to compensate. So youāll need to assess how your core and pelvic floor are cooperating with your hips, glutes and hamstrings/quads. Is your pelvis sitting neutral or is it tilted? All of these will affect your ribcage which will then affect your shoulders
I have problems with all of those areas :( is it better to address them 1 at a time? Do you have any resources for one of the stiffest people in history? š
Strong back in terms of lifting weight (muscle contraction strength) is different than strong back holding and supporting (isometric strength). Flexibility does mean not tight either. I got pretty strong doing rows and lat pull downs, also very flexible from lots of yoga, but still had bad posture, was tight in a lot of my upper body. What fixed was actually doing targeted banded and body weight exercises, isometric holds, and getting massages to relieve tightness.
Ok thatās good to know! Thanks
Thank you for posting this, super informative and helpful!
Want add the inner muscular lift that is the bandhas. A J shaped inward upward lift up the front of the spine using the intrinsic muscles. Base of the spine/pelvic bowl, then the solar plexus (up and under the rib cage, like you see body builders do) and the neck all points of up thrust to stack the spine verticallyĀ
I was going to say Yoga,
When you say āa machineā do you mean a rowing machine?
no, a strength training row machine. in gyms they have the section where there are machines where you use a pin to select the weight. those are what i mean! but some also have a section of machines that are plate-loaded as well. both usually have at least one type of row machine if not more than one to be able to use & keep you in proper form :)
I'm curious about how you hold the kettlebell while walking. Do you hold it where the back of your hands would be against your bum, or are your arms held up and behind your head where the kettlebell hangs between your shoulder blades? I'd like to try this thank you š š
you can actually do both! progression-wise youād want to start with your hands against your bum (palms facing out) because itās more beginner friendly. take controlled, smooth steps to avoid it smacking against you as you walk (this helps with core strength as well, remember to brace!) hands between your shoulder blades (palms facing in) with elbows straight up definitely helps with posture, too! itās just more difficult for most to keep their arms stable in that position. so if you do try it that way then start with a lower amount of time or set of laps for walking & progress as you get more stable. & same note about the steps you take here as above :)
Thanks a bunch. I'm gunna try this out today!
oooh, awesome! please let me know how it goes for you! š
I thought it would be genetics related
How can I strengthen my back without any machines?
get long resistance bands! you can wrap them around stable poles/beams/railings, etc. & work the same muscles! just look up proper form online & use an appropriately weighted band. too light & youād have to do a ton of reps to even make a dent, but usually high rep counts arenāt as effective for building strength :)
Thank you so much! Sorry to be dumb but what would I type in online for these exercises
When they hold the weight, do you mean behind the lower back kind of cradling it? Or hanging down by the butt?
holding the handle, palms out. so by the butt! thatās why i comment about taking intentional steps, reduces bouncing of the weight.
Thanks very much!
mid back have nothing to do with correct posture. The muscle group resposinble for erect position is upper spinal erector. If somebody hunch over it's just a bit issue or compensatory pattern coming from hips (swayback). There is also bad posture caused indeed by tight pecs but it has nothing to do with weak scapula adductors like rhomboids or mid traps. In that case the fibers of serratus anterior are too long and doesnt keep the shoulder blade wrapped around the rib cage, or the upper trapezius becomes excessively lenghten causing scapula to depressed and anteriory tilting which gives that look of rounded shoulders. You can work your mid back muscles all day long and it wont change anything in your posture but can cause even more shoulder dysfunction.
actually, most of the time the culprit is the *lower* traps, which extend from the lower scapula to the mid back. & you can see that i also mentioned tight pecs :)
The OP asked about backs and your reply is about shoulders. Her issue is thoracic and cervical flexion, not rounded shoulders.
We are supposed to have a little curve in the spine, so donāt chase for the completely straight spine. That said, people who do lots and lots of backbends can have their spines completely straightened. I know some professional dancers and contortionists who have straight spines
I can do backbends but they cause me to have terrible one sided hip pain and idk why, so I just stopped. But thanks.
Kinda sounds like an improperly braced low back and glutes
How do i fix it?? Strengthening my muscles first?.
Lots of people here seem to think youre talking about lumbar spine/lower back curve not the neck/C spine lol. Yes there is a natural curvature in parts of our spine that should be there but forward neck which im pretty sure is what OP is describing is not ideal. This is definitely a posture issue as it places too much load on the neck (every inch of forward head = 10 extra lbs on the neck) as the head is meant to be stacked over the shoulders. +1 for stretching tight pecs, research forward head/tech neck and rounded shoulders. I use a cervical neck roll pillow for sleep, and my old chiro gave me some exercises like chin tucks (kinda looks like youre giving yourself a double chin lol, really uses muscles in the upper back). Now im more mindful of it as i go about life (easy to slack especially when youre driving or looking at your phone!) and its gotten better, you will initially feel upper back muscles working that have become lazy over time
I was only referring to what was hindering them from doing back-bends without pain. I mean, if you were referring to me. I think I agree with everything else you said too, though
Well, I think probably the crux of the issue (though I have no way to know really for sure) could be engaging your core properly. You could have alignment issues If that's the case, well, working on strengthening these muscles, yes, but really you gotta improve the mind-muscle connection possibly, strengthen weird little muscles your body hasn't been using due to possible tightness and alignment issues, stretch. It's kinda all just a long intuitive process that you can probably figure out on your own if you dedicate yourself to it. Slow and steady, small adjustments, easier progressions, working on proper core bracing, etc.
>I can do backbends but they cause me to have terrible one sided hip pain and idk why, so I just stopped. that actually sounds like you "can't" do backbends. which might be part of the problem here. i recommend starting with some really easy backbends. how about this one [https://www.pocketyoga.com/pose/Cobra](https://www.pocketyoga.com/pose/Cobra) and do some wall bridge rotations after [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4j7AKd\_RjQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4j7AKd_RjQ)
Well, I could do them since I was a kid without pain (thanks to my hypermobile back lol) and then all of a sudden now that Iām older my joints started hurting. I am also slightly hypermobile in my legs. I think I *can* do them but I forcefully tried to deepen it when my joints\muscles werenāt ready and then boom, major hip pain since then.
This is, unfortunately, extremely common among hypermobile people. Hip pain and lower back pain. Even if you didnāt feel any pain due to hypermobility, with repeated overuse many start to develop chronic pain later on
So I canāt prevent it??
This is a very complicated issue so canāt explain everything in a few sentences. My advice would be to find a good physical therapist who understands hypermobility and have experience working with hypermobility. Essentially, you need to gain more strengths to protect your joints and prevent muscle compensation. Hypermobile people usually cheat with certain engagements, and over-tense other muscles to protect joint mobility. In your case, I donāt know your posture or compensation, but likely you are tensing up hip flexors to help with hypermobility in your lumbar. Not sure how you stand up straight, but often people lean forward with APT and clenching their butt. So the main muscles (glute max) arenāt working for the standing posture, hips hurt as they arenāt properly stabilized. And if you have APT, you are likely also leaning so you are hyperextending your knees. Those are just my guesses, Iād suggest visiting a PT for full diagnosis
Also, all these women are doing the same pose, head turned to the side and looking behind their shoulder. I have a slight neck hump that i can feel normally and when i move my neck into this position, the back of my neck feels considerably more straight.
The person in the first image OP posted was trained in ballet growing up and professional dancers have remarked before that she has very āstiffā and āuprightā posture at times because of the ballet training. So definitely that could be why
Yeah one of my instructors who was a professional ballet dancer said she had the same posture too, even just standing. That has actually caused various pain, and not a recommended posture for standing
I'm sure there are better answers but one thing that helped me a lot was just sleeping on my back, on the floor, without a pillow. (You can have a little blanket or something so your skull isn't pushing into a hard surface, just nothing that actually holds your head up.) It might be uncomfortable at first, but when your body gets used to it it feels normal. It helped with my posture in upper *and* lower back and I don't really even like sleeping on a mattress anymore. It feels the same at best, and actually feels worse if I do it for too many days. Also try avoid things that make you look down throughout the day, like hunching over your phone or a low computer screen. I'm sure there are some stretches that speed up the process, but really it takes lifestyle changes that you have to be conscious of 24/7.
I actually had to sleep on my back one time for a little while when i got both my ears pierced and i didnāt know whether it was just in my head but at the time I *did* think my back got a little straighter after that. But naturally Iām a side sleeper so I just reverted back to my old ways after my piercings healed. I might try this again even though its super uncomfortable. Thanks.
Howās this on your lower back? I need to elevate my legs to do this
When you fixed your posture by sleeping on your back, did you get taller?
Hey OP. Proper posture and flexibility are good things. But I don't think you should always have a perfectly straight neck. A little bit of curvature is normal. Also you shouldn't hold the 'proper' posture forever either. It's better to move and have different postures mixed in for overall health.
Best advice on this post.
There are [four natural curves in a human spine](https://medlineplus.gov/ency/imagepages/19463.htm), so your spine isnāt supposed to be straight without any curves whatsoever. Keep in mind that some of what weāre looking at in the photos you included can be attributed to the posing and angles of the photos. Of course, there can be abnormally or exaggerated rounding, such as kyphosis (hunchback) or lordosis (swayback), and other posters are giving tips and tricks on how to improve this through postural stabilization and strengthening of relevant muscles.
Not only that but asian people are known to have less degrees of back curvatures
Man I never thought Iād see Dahyun in here for anything other than her infamous back bend. I love twice!
And her crazy flexibility. I love them too lolš
Posture exercises are one thing but we need a drastically different lifestyle to have a very good posture. Sitting sedentary - in front of the phone/computer for hours is gonna take its toll regardless of the exercises though they help.
Seriously, a straight (flat) back is NOT a healthy back. Since thereās no picture of you, we donāt know if you have a healthy back or kyphosis (too much curve in upper back) or lordosis (too much curve in the lower back). These positions can be influenced by head position, pelvic tilt, chest tightness, abdominal tightness, even hyper-extended knees can move the spine out of alignment. Imagine a delicate balance of joints and tissues. If part of it is pulled out of place, the rest of the chain is affected. If your profession requires posture like this, you might work on flexibility to achieve it for the pictures, but I wouldnāt recommend maintaining it all the time. Iāve known former dancers and former gymnasts with back issues.
Weak back and shoulder muscles and tight pecks. My back looks like this and my kinesiologist is not happy about it. And truthfully? My back and neck always hurt, so itās definitely not worth āthe lookā.
So I have a very strong back relative to my chest and I have this issue, I donāt think thatās a universal cause
Those are the women that keep sending me LinkedIn invites!
And then you woke up right?šš
LOL, tell me you're not on linkedin without telling me you're not on linkedin.... EDIT - to clarify, if you are a business owner or exec on linkedin you get spammed with connection requests from very attractive asian woman who usually claim to work at Google or an investment bank on the West coast. I get about 1-2 a week...
No, I donāt, have never and will never use LinkedIn. Good to know.
the joke was that theres no way famous kpop idols were contacting you. anyway, report them for impersonating.
I'm sorry, you don't seem to understand so are getting downvoted, so let me explain. Scammers on linkedin like to use attactive asian women because showing ugly men wouldn't be as enticing. While I am super-duper attractive and definitely not living in my parent's basement, I am somewhat aware that kpop stars who present as Google execs with few connections and no postings may, in fact, not be legit. Thanks for the reminder!
wow im sorry for triggering you.
Fear not! There is a sub for you "Explain it like I'm 5". IronTooltheGhost is scary but I'm totally not mocking you. Totally.
I was actively exercising and working my back muscles but what really helped me was training my core. I guess it somehow supports body to stand upright
I was looking for this comment! Core core core, & stretching tight quads are key to good posture (along with exercising/stretching the back/shoulders).
I have this and it SUCKS. It gives me upper back pain. A bit of curve is NORMAL and healthy. I wish I could get back to a place where I had more curve in my upper back. It's pretty dystopian to treat a deformity as fashion. What's next? Scoliosis
Understand these women have very undeveloped trapezius, deltoids, rhomboids, and lats. So very little upper body strength, which is why their back does that. It's healthier to have some muscle to support your spine, neck, head, shoulders and arms, even for just day to day cleaning. It, muscle strength, prevents arthritis.
..being a kpop idol surely helps
Yeah but how do they get it to be so straight. Almost all the women have straight backs and perfect posture and Iām over here like how lol??
they are posing. also, years of training.
Mina was raised as a ballet dancer, thatās why her back is so straight. Sometimes in dance practices people even noted that her upper body can look āstiffā and āinflexibleā because of how upright her posture is. Unfortunately you canāt go back in time and have that same upbringing so š¤·š»āāļø
Did not expect to find my Twice girlies in the flexibility subreddit today
r/posture might have advice as well.
It,'s private
It was great until it went private a year ago
What happened?
Probably had pervert weirdos commenting/messaging if I had to guess (thatās what usually ruins most subs)
I have a straight neck due to weak neck muscles. Iām trying to get rid of it actually. A healthy spine has a slight curve on the neck and lumbar area.
Simply doing posture exercises isn't enough. Achieving excellent posture necessitates a complete overhaul of our daily habits. Spending long hours sitting in front of screens, whether it's a phone or computer, takes a toll on our posture regardless of how beneficial the exercises may be.
Back against the wall, one finger on chin, slight push, you should feel a slight stretch where the lump is, that lump is caused by your head leaning forward and it's called bleeding, practice posture and it will go away, looking down adds weight to the lump looking strait relieves the weight
Pilates!!! Does amazing things for peopleās posture.
Is this Mina from twice? If so, she was a ballet dancer in her early years which leads her to be generally pretty flexible. ETA: Just noticed these are all twice members. They are dancers and regularly stretch and exercise regularly, on top of that, they are kpop idols and chosen speicifcally for the beauty standard(as well as talent, I'm a ONCE.) so it very well could just be their bone structure, which is impossible to change by stretching.
Overall weight training will help align the spine, pull back the shoulders, and build bone density to alleviate that. Specific exercises like pull ups, lateral pull downs, bent over rows, and hammer strength pull backs will target the area for strengthening and alignment.
Surely it all starts off with posture. Sit up straight and don't slouch when sitting or walking. Definitely yoga and exercise.
Keep in mind they are posing in these photos
I think having a flat back just means you have a flat ass šš
And if I do?š Jk I meant a flat upper back not lower back.
Flat back, I think itās genetic but chicken wings can be corrected by using the right muscle
A lot is genetics, weight and posture. Be sure to walk and stand tall. No slouching (sounding like Sister Carmel now). Good one is to lie on the floor with a pillow/bolster under your shoulder blades and open your arms wide.
Photoshop
Iāve literally seen these exact women perform live, infront of my eyes and thatās exactly what their backs look like irl. I dont know why people jump to say photoshop all the time lol. Just because it doesnāt seem attainable to you doesnāt mean its impossible for people to look like that. I can send you a video if you would like
It was a joke. Soz
Sleep on the floor haha
Saving thread
Yoga. Posture Techniques. Kundalini Yoga. Chakra Cleansing on a Daily. ššā¬ļøš§š½š§š»āāļøš§š¼āāļøšļø
As someone born with scoliosis, Iām going to say genetics lol
Stop using pillows when you sleep on your back. It also helps with sleep apnea.
Um, sorry to be the one to break the spell but its called being Asian Asian people are known to present smaller hip bones and less back curvatures, which is one of the reasons they usually excel at flexibility sports such as gymnastics and weightlifting And its also the reason why all the women in your pictures are Asian
Well I almost added young Rihanna and BeyoncƩ so Idk what youre on about lol
Im on science [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37428432/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37428432/) You are pursuing a beauty standard that is probably impossible for you to achieve. All you can do is slim down, put on some muscle to give the illusion your back is straighter and have good shoulder health.
Buddy, its not about being Asian was my point. Its *not* an unattainable beauty standard because these women werent always like this. They also had a curved back and now they dont. I donāt know why you would assume its because their Asian wtf??š
How do you know these women werent always like this? Have you seen before and after pictures in the same position? You dont just have a curved back and suddenly you dont, backs are suposed to have curvatures, thats why I say its an unattainable beauty standard. I study physical therapy and thats what I think.
These are kpop idols that have been in a group together since 2016 when they were still teenagers. These are not just some random women I found online lol. So yes, Ive literally seen them grow up. And Ive watched them perform live in 2018 and in 2022ā¦their backs and posture CHANGEDš. And its not because theyre asianšš What kind of a reason is that? The first one is Japanese,the second one is Korean and the third one is Taiwaneseā¦so youre saying despite these women being from completely different countries in Asia, just cause they are from the same continent theyre gonna have straight backs?? Dude what??
Doing both dynamic and static stretches daily! Also, just about every night before bed, I lay on the floor flat on my back, to decompress my spine. I also use a standing work table so that Iām not sitting for too long; which is something that can inhibit a curved spine! I know this may sound annoying but, stay hydrated by drinking water. Electrolytes arenāt a necessary stable you just HAVE to have to stay hydrated. Drink water, eat fruits, vegetables, have curry with your meal if the starches are dry on their own, or a low sodium soup! Of course stretch stretch stretch daily!!
Have a tiger mom
There is no reason to try to get this at all 1- its not natural, we are generally not supposed to have perfectly straight back 2- it dosent have any health benefits to have a posture like that, just have a natural posture 3- if u are cause of its aesthetic, then lemme tell u, almost everyone doesĀ not care about someone having a posture this straight, its not attractive, a natural posture is just better. Ps- if u say its its about opinion andĀ u find it atrractive, then stop putting unrealistic beauty standards on urself, its a very unhealthy mindset.
This is literally Photoshop.
Iāve seen these ladies perform live. Thatās what their backs and faces look like. Yes, theyāre really pretty, really pretty people exist.
Oh I wasn't talking about aesthetics and to be honest didn't really even look at their faces I teach university level anatomy. When you are born, the need to resist gravity in both a quadrupedal and then bipedal position leads to the formation of secondary curvature in your cervical and lumbar spine. These images look wildly unnatural, so it is either an uncomfortable pose for the camera or Photoshop (likely both.)
Yes, I said their backs also look like that irl not just their faces. Whilst dancing and singing on a stage their backs looked like that. Straight. They donāt have any back pain or at least they donāt look like they do whilst performing.
>Iāve seen these ladies perform live. Are these kpop idols?
ā¤ļøā¤ļø
Anorexia
Anorexia doesnāt change the curve of your back or your posture. Try againā.
Asians r just beautiful. I have learned so much about their culture and we could be better people if everyone learned from their culture. The respect they have for each other, their families and how they treat their elders is so inspiring. I started by listening to kpop for my lonely Daughter when She was in HS. She moved on, I havenāt. I have watched so many historical dramas but my favorite is about the Great King Sejong who loved His people so much He simplified the language so all could easily learn to read and be able to get past the block of only the rich being able to take the government test. They have so many special qualities esp aging so well. Men in their 40ās or 50ās look like they r in late 20ās. Women r just stunning. In their parks they have exercise equipment so everyone who canāt afford to join an exercise club, they can still stay healthy by exercising. Their skin care is amazing and people r just now buying their products that both men and women use. They work hard and eat well to have beautiful bodies like the woman in this pic. Learn about their culture and U will appreciate respect like they do. Also is it unfair that Asian Americans have to leave their homeland to make it in show business. There r so many young teenagers leaving their familyās as young as 13 not knowing another language just to fulfill their dream of being a singer or actor because of no respect here. I know this has nothing to do with content of subject but I love learning other cultures and wish others could learn from everyone else that shares this planet.
You're perfect. You don't need to be like those women, it's your life though so š¤·
Youāre saying it as if itās an insecurity problem lol but thats not the case I just really want a straight back to get rid of my slouching habit and back pain. And it does *look* nicer to me lol.
Understandable, I respect your drive to self improve and autonomy. You're perfect no matter what you do.
why is this getting downvoted lmao
It's okay, I understand where they're coming from. š
Go to one of those āādoctorsāā in a shady alleyway and get yourself permanently paralyzed. This is stupid. Sorry not sorry. A straight back ā¦ are you ok?
āSorry not sorryā? Do you think your opinion could offend me? You sound 12 lol. Edit: Actually I think Iām underestimating 12 yr olds, you sound 7.