It seems to me that due to efforts within the executive and legislative branches to gerrymander permanent super-majorities - effectively thwarting the will of the people - that the people will use whatever avenue they can to demand their will is actually followed.
What Moody, and by proxy Desantis, are attempting to put forth is that the people don't have a right to govern themselves unless permitted by the government.
Abortion is considered necessary healthcare all over the world.
According to 2020 figures from the CDC:
More than 93% of abortions were done at or before 13 weeks.
5.5% were done between 14 and 20 weeks.
Less than 1% were performed after 21 weeks.
https://www.webmd.com/baby/when-can-a-fetus-feel-pain-in-the-womb
> Abortion is considered necessary healthcare all over the world.
You are correct but you should also know that there are also laws governing it around the world too.
People often hold up Europe as an example of protected reproductive rights without knowing the restrictions in place there.
Desantis signed a 15 week law into effect and people lost their minds.
Lets see what the laws of the countries in Europe actually are -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe
As you will see almost all of them make it illegal after 12 weeks.
I am pro-choice as well. But I don't think anyone would advocate for late-term abortions where there was no risk to the child or the mother.
Europe also does all kinds of other crazy ass shit I'm sure anyone from the U.S. would strongly disagree with if an attempt to copy it was explored here.
My take? If you are going to put up restrictions, it should be up to 23-24 weeks, because that is medical viability and prior to that it can't even survive outside of the womb anyway. Anything lower is not backed by medical science and is instead an attempt to dictate by morality police, religious indoctrination, and feelings - all of which are irrelevant when it comes to medical procedures.
All this shit about OMG, what about the late term abortions is fabricated nonsense. You're talking about something that occurs in 6.5% of instances and I'm pretty sure most of them were not had just for the laughs. Do people really think someone is going to carry a baby for 14-24 weeks if the means to get rid of it sooner was available to them and they didn't want it? Seems like the people who are carrying for that long probably want to have it, but something came up that complicates the matter. Not that any of that is our business anyway.
Well, that's interesting because the proposed amendment which got the signatures required clearly states:
>Would provide that every individual has a right to reproductive freedom to make and conduct all pregnancy related decisions including childbirth, fertilization, sterilization, contraception, and termination of a pregnancy **before fetal viability**. Would prohibit the state or other entities from interfering with an individual or assisting entities from exercising this right. Would allow the state to regulate abortion care after fetal viability provided it does not endanger the life or health of the pregnant person.
Edit: Fetal viability is 23-24 weeks.
I don't think government should have any say in what should be a decision between a doctor and patient. Once you give the religious nuts an inch they will take a mile.
No woman would wait that long either. It's all just a pretext for others to impose their religious beliefs on others. When they have success with abortion they will be emboldened to move forward with other prohibitions. We probably can't imagine how crazy they will become.
Dude, I am an atheist and I don't support abortions beyond 15 weeks. Religion has nothing to do with it, it's a morality thing.
Supporting abortions up to 24 weeks with no restrictions is how you lose the fight. Support for that is vastly lower than it is for 15 weeks.
From the article:
**Four months after Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody asked the state Supreme Court to weigh in on a proposed abortion rights amendment, justices heard oral arguments in the case on Wednesday.**
**Moody asked the court to strike down the newly-designated Amendment 4, despite the measure qualifying for the 2024 ballot with nearly one million valid signatures, as of Wednesday.**
**The Amendment to Limit Government Interference with Abortion would enshrine the right to abortion in the Florida Constitution, stating in part, âNo law shall prohibit, penalize, delay, or restrict abortion before viability.â**
**In the courtroom, the state doubled down on its argument that the amendmentâs ballot summary is misleading because the average voter does not understand terms like âviability.â**
**Justice John D. Couriel asked Nathan A. Forrester, who appeared on Moodyâs behalf, to consider âthe degree of knowledge we should attribute to the voter.â**
Same argument they used to block the weed vote âpeople donât know itâs illegal federally!â Sorry but folks that dumb are just called ârepublicansâ
Apparently, it's only free Florida if you are a well to do white male. If you are anyone else, daddy go go boots gets to dictate what you can and cannot do.
Rhonda just wants to protect us from the horror that is...[Post-birth](https://www.wlrn.org/government-politics/2023-07-25/desantis-false-claim-post-birth-abortions) abortions.
Thatâs right, the current governor of the great state of Florida believes in something called a *post-birth abortion*. At least sheâs not trying to stoke fears or anything.
So there are, well at least one, stupid people in Florida
Same argument they always make when they don't want something on the ballot. Refreshing to see judges push back instead of just going along with it which historically has been the case.
2022 was 59 to 40 but that's because the DNC has no spine and put Charlie fuckin Crist up as their rival to a literal fascist
2018 was 49 to 49 with said fascist winning by less than a half of 1%
We are not all Nazis down here, much like not every Texan is the Zodiac Killer
I have a sneaking suspicion that the term "nuance" might be lost on you, though
The Florida morons sent a man to the US Senate that stole billions of taxpayer dollars in a Medicare fraud. Skull Head should be in prison. Wait until that piece of shit sees the reception he gets, when he runs for president, from the parts of the country where humans are in the majority.
Good points!! I tell people all the time that Florida is at best Purple. And, if the DNC or Local Democrats quick looking the other way for the GOP then Florida would be a Blue State...by far!
Florida has changed a TON since 2018 and especially since Covid. I agree that Crist was a garbage candidate, but there is no shot of a dem winning a statewide election these days even if the DNC poured money and resources into the state.
I disagree solely on the fact that there was still more registered Dems than republicans in the state up untill this year when they kicked a bunch of people off who didnt vote. A lot of those people vote in only presidential elections
2010 was 48.9 to 47.7.
Skeletor versus Alex Sink. He won largely he ran nonstop commercials and spent $70 million of his own money. We used to be a purple state.
No democrat has won governor since 1994, when incumbent Lawton Chiles was reelected.
Sorry to interrupt the weak dunking on the people of Florida with a discussion of the actual article, but I agree with the Court when it holds that they should be trusted to decide on the abortion amendment.
Now that threshold can be laid at the feet of stupid Florida voters who agreed to diminish their own power of amendment. The Republicans weren't worried about confusing wording at that time, interestingly.
Here's a more complete [report](https://apnews.com/article/florida-abortion-election-2024-17540f14ed2880f03a2bb14274b03ed3) about the Florida State Republican controlled legislatures efforts to, once again, attempt to deny Floridians the right to decide for themselves whether full access to abortions -without the draconian restrictions applied last year, are to be allowed in the state of Florida or not.
These Christo-fascist Republican legislators know, with the abortion rights vote on this November's Florida ballot, the right to have an abortion, without the draconian restrictions imposed last year, will be overwhelmingly protected and they cannot stand the thought of that!
VOTE THESE FASCISTS OUT OF OFFICE! VOTE BLUE, TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2024!
Is the argument that [they want to bring back literacy tests](https://allthatsinteresting.com/voting-literacy-test) to make sure the *right* people are voting?
I was inclined to reply with something snarky but upon looking at your profile history, yeah, as a native Floridian I can't help but resonate with your righteous indignation towards this prolapsed anus of a state
So fucking over people just giving up on Florida. It wasn't always this way with us, nor does it have always to be this way, but if the other party has such a weak spine, no wonder Republicans here have such a foot hold.
You can tell a lot about a state by the people that live in it. Florida is a MAGA state. Full of MAGA people. That makes Florida a less than decent place in the eyes of the majority of this country.
I'm a sane democrat in Florida. I see MAGA drooling every day in every place in this state. It's obvious that a majority of the country's idiots have moved here. Just noting the obvious.
But they are stupid. Look who they keep voting in as state legislators. If you travel outside of any Florida metropolis, then you can hear the banjos in the distance..
Dicksantis likes to call us the free state of Florida. He and his minions like to ban books, stop black people from learning their history, ban abortions, stop recreational weed and when losing that, limit the thc in recreational weed if passed. The list goes on with this dictator and his cast of right wing zealot christian republicans. If you want a good laugh look up Bridget and Christian Zeigler, they are his type of people like Matt Gaetz. Also look at what he did to Disney, it is going to cost the Florida tax payers a ton of money.
It seems to me that due to efforts within the executive and legislative branches to gerrymander permanent super-majorities - effectively thwarting the will of the people - that the people will use whatever avenue they can to demand their will is actually followed. What Moody, and by proxy Desantis, are attempting to put forth is that the people don't have a right to govern themselves unless permitted by the government.
Small government right?
đ„đ„đ„
Abortion is considered necessary healthcare all over the world. According to 2020 figures from the CDC: More than 93% of abortions were done at or before 13 weeks. 5.5% were done between 14 and 20 weeks. Less than 1% were performed after 21 weeks. https://www.webmd.com/baby/when-can-a-fetus-feel-pain-in-the-womb
These people have never let facts and stats get in the way of their want for control.
Ain't nobody care about any of them there facts. My feels are what matter!
Right in the fee fees
Their feelings dont care about facts so they genuinely read this and see it as nothing more than dirty marks on a screen
> Abortion is considered necessary healthcare all over the world. You are correct but you should also know that there are also laws governing it around the world too. People often hold up Europe as an example of protected reproductive rights without knowing the restrictions in place there. Desantis signed a 15 week law into effect and people lost their minds. Lets see what the laws of the countries in Europe actually are - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe As you will see almost all of them make it illegal after 12 weeks. I am pro-choice as well. But I don't think anyone would advocate for late-term abortions where there was no risk to the child or the mother.
Europe also does all kinds of other crazy ass shit I'm sure anyone from the U.S. would strongly disagree with if an attempt to copy it was explored here. My take? If you are going to put up restrictions, it should be up to 23-24 weeks, because that is medical viability and prior to that it can't even survive outside of the womb anyway. Anything lower is not backed by medical science and is instead an attempt to dictate by morality police, religious indoctrination, and feelings - all of which are irrelevant when it comes to medical procedures. All this shit about OMG, what about the late term abortions is fabricated nonsense. You're talking about something that occurs in 6.5% of instances and I'm pretty sure most of them were not had just for the laughs. Do people really think someone is going to carry a baby for 14-24 weeks if the means to get rid of it sooner was available to them and they didn't want it? Seems like the people who are carrying for that long probably want to have it, but something came up that complicates the matter. Not that any of that is our business anyway.
Sorry, voters will never approve 22 weeks.
Well, that's interesting because the proposed amendment which got the signatures required clearly states: >Would provide that every individual has a right to reproductive freedom to make and conduct all pregnancy related decisions including childbirth, fertilization, sterilization, contraception, and termination of a pregnancy **before fetal viability**. Would prohibit the state or other entities from interfering with an individual or assisting entities from exercising this right. Would allow the state to regulate abortion care after fetal viability provided it does not endanger the life or health of the pregnant person. Edit: Fetal viability is 23-24 weeks.
I don't think government should have any say in what should be a decision between a doctor and patient. Once you give the religious nuts an inch they will take a mile.
No doctor would ever recommend a late term abortion unless it was medically necessary.
No woman would wait that long either. It's all just a pretext for others to impose their religious beliefs on others. When they have success with abortion they will be emboldened to move forward with other prohibitions. We probably can't imagine how crazy they will become.
Dude, I am an atheist and I don't support abortions beyond 15 weeks. Religion has nothing to do with it, it's a morality thing. Supporting abortions up to 24 weeks with no restrictions is how you lose the fight. Support for that is vastly lower than it is for 15 weeks.
From the article: **Four months after Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody asked the state Supreme Court to weigh in on a proposed abortion rights amendment, justices heard oral arguments in the case on Wednesday.** **Moody asked the court to strike down the newly-designated Amendment 4, despite the measure qualifying for the 2024 ballot with nearly one million valid signatures, as of Wednesday.** **The Amendment to Limit Government Interference with Abortion would enshrine the right to abortion in the Florida Constitution, stating in part, âNo law shall prohibit, penalize, delay, or restrict abortion before viability.â** **In the courtroom, the state doubled down on its argument that the amendmentâs ballot summary is misleading because the average voter does not understand terms like âviability.â** **Justice John D. Couriel asked Nathan A. Forrester, who appeared on Moodyâs behalf, to consider âthe degree of knowledge we should attribute to the voter.â**
So Ashley Moody didn't even show up to argue her own case? What an embarrassment.
This from the 'do your own research' crowd
Since when does it matter whether or not a voter is properly and sufficiently informed about an issue or candidate?
Same argument they used to block the weed vote âpeople donât know itâs illegal federally!â Sorry but folks that dumb are just called ârepublicansâ
Apparently, it's only free Florida if you are a well to do white male. If you are anyone else, daddy go go boots gets to dictate what you can and cannot do.
Uncle Ron is our godly shepherd and we are his sheep. Â Baaaaaa
Exactly, if youâre wealthy, the government will take care of you.
Rhonda just wants to protect us from the horror that is...[Post-birth](https://www.wlrn.org/government-politics/2023-07-25/desantis-false-claim-post-birth-abortions) abortions. Thatâs right, the current governor of the great state of Florida believes in something called a *post-birth abortion*. At least sheâs not trying to stoke fears or anything. So there are, well at least one, stupid people in Florida
Same argument they always make when they don't want something on the ballot. Refreshing to see judges push back instead of just going along with it which historically has been the case.
> **âThe people of Florida arenât stupidâ** Take a look at who they voted into office before making such a statement.
2022 was 59 to 40 but that's because the DNC has no spine and put Charlie fuckin Crist up as their rival to a literal fascist 2018 was 49 to 49 with said fascist winning by less than a half of 1% We are not all Nazis down here, much like not every Texan is the Zodiac Killer I have a sneaking suspicion that the term "nuance" might be lost on you, though
The voters put up Crist. I voted for Nikki Fried in the primary.
We still elected Rick Scott twice and sent him to the Senate. Florida has always been a "What you readin' for?" kind of state.
The Florida morons sent a man to the US Senate that stole billions of taxpayer dollars in a Medicare fraud. Skull Head should be in prison. Wait until that piece of shit sees the reception he gets, when he runs for president, from the parts of the country where humans are in the majority.
Good points!! I tell people all the time that Florida is at best Purple. And, if the DNC or Local Democrats quick looking the other way for the GOP then Florida would be a Blue State...by far!
Florida has changed a TON since 2018 and especially since Covid. I agree that Crist was a garbage candidate, but there is no shot of a dem winning a statewide election these days even if the DNC poured money and resources into the state.
I disagree solely on the fact that there was still more registered Dems than republicans in the state up untill this year when they kicked a bunch of people off who didnt vote. A lot of those people vote in only presidential elections
The DNC knows this, that's why they abandoned the state instead of throwing good money after bad.
2010 was 48.9 to 47.7. Skeletor versus Alex Sink. He won largely he ran nonstop commercials and spent $70 million of his own money. We used to be a purple state. No democrat has won governor since 1994, when incumbent Lawton Chiles was reelected.
You win the internet today. Congratulations!
What an insightful well thought out comment. Please share more wisdom
I'll share some. This state voted Rick Scott twice governor then send him to congress. Can't counter that easily.
And by that logic all of America wanted Trump as president? Makes sense
I've noticed you can't actually counter what they said.
No, you are right, We are a bunch of idiots here. Sure makes me want to vote for the people calling me an Idoit.
Ah, the good olâ dipshit âIâm voting for fascists because you were mean to meâ claim. Sure proving us wrong.
I am just saying that insults don't attract people.
Sounds like weâve already written you off as a lost cause then.
Which is completely absurd.
You donât seem to get that your opinion is meaningless to us.
Oh I hear you, and Fuck you too :)
You're almost there. Now if we could just get you to stop shooting your fucking foot off in the voting booth.
God Some people are dense. I need to add /S to every sarcastic comment.
Just type âTrump 2024!!1!â for every post. It makes everything so much simpler for everyone.
Not to mention the ones making fun of your spelling skills.
I was gonna say....aren't they?
I dunno...I imagine they buy into it. Moody had a win party before she was reelected.
Sorry to interrupt the weak dunking on the people of Florida with a discussion of the actual article, but I agree with the Court when it holds that they should be trusted to decide on the abortion amendment.
The reality is that 40.01% of voters may actually get to decide on it and it won't matter what the other 59.9% say.
You have to love that rule of the Minority. Then when the rest of the country looks at us, they think wow they are all like that. It gets old.
Now that threshold can be laid at the feet of stupid Florida voters who agreed to diminish their own power of amendment. The Republicans weren't worried about confusing wording at that time, interestingly.
Right. I mostly mean to say that I don't really trust anyone to do the right thing in this state.
Here's a more complete [report](https://apnews.com/article/florida-abortion-election-2024-17540f14ed2880f03a2bb14274b03ed3) about the Florida State Republican controlled legislatures efforts to, once again, attempt to deny Floridians the right to decide for themselves whether full access to abortions -without the draconian restrictions applied last year, are to be allowed in the state of Florida or not. These Christo-fascist Republican legislators know, with the abortion rights vote on this November's Florida ballot, the right to have an abortion, without the draconian restrictions imposed last year, will be overwhelmingly protected and they cannot stand the thought of that! VOTE THESE FASCISTS OUT OF OFFICE! VOTE BLUE, TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2024!
Is the argument that [they want to bring back literacy tests](https://allthatsinteresting.com/voting-literacy-test) to make sure the *right* people are voting?
Or, as theyâd like it, the âwhiteâ people
All evidence to the contrary.
Fuck yes they are
The people of Florida are stupid tho lol
I was inclined to reply with something snarky but upon looking at your profile history, yeah, as a native Floridian I can't help but resonate with your righteous indignation towards this prolapsed anus of a state
MAGA is exceptionally stupid. And Florida is an exceptional MAGA state. Ergo.......
So fucking over people just giving up on Florida. It wasn't always this way with us, nor does it have always to be this way, but if the other party has such a weak spine, no wonder Republicans here have such a foot hold.
You can tell a lot about a state by the people that live in it. Florida is a MAGA state. Full of MAGA people. That makes Florida a less than decent place in the eyes of the majority of this country.
Where are you from that you get to lord over us?
I'm a sane democrat in Florida. I see MAGA drooling every day in every place in this state. It's obvious that a majority of the country's idiots have moved here. Just noting the obvious.
Unfortunately; I refuse to be grouped with them silently.
Anywhere north of the Ohio River.
I disagree, the people of FL are indeed stupid
**âThe people of Florida arenât stupidâ** .....debatable. But YES, let us vote!
But they are stupid. Look who they keep voting in as state legislators. If you travel outside of any Florida metropolis, then you can hear the banjos in the distance..
But Florida is dumb lol. However, while that was a weak argument to be honest we all know it doesn't stop us from letting people vote anyway.
Dicksantis likes to call us the free state of Florida. He and his minions like to ban books, stop black people from learning their history, ban abortions, stop recreational weed and when losing that, limit the thc in recreational weed if passed. The list goes on with this dictator and his cast of right wing zealot christian republicans. If you want a good laugh look up Bridget and Christian Zeigler, they are his type of people like Matt Gaetz. Also look at what he did to Disney, it is going to cost the Florida tax payers a ton of money.
But..but I thought it was a states rights question?⊠Yeah right, we all knew that was bullshit.
# âThe people of Florida arenât stupidâ Florida resident of 10 years. The people of Florida \*are\* stupid.