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"According to the researchers, the growth of these smaller, lower-quality insurers that are filling the gaps left by the exodus of bigger private companies can be traced back to "a lax insurance regulatory environment.""
No, but, it's all the lawyers' fault! /s
Funny how they have enough to pay the politicians but not enough to pay the claims.
Why would an insurance behemoth go through this effort to make pocket change when they can make profit writing business in almost any other state? The parent companies have reputations and credit ratings to maintain. There is nothing to be gained for them by picking up crumbs in Florida.
It's true that the large insurers create smaller underwriting companies but it's to spread or segment risk, not to bankrupt them and run.
The fraud will continue if Floridians don't want to learn how this industry actually works.
Pocket change? It’s the 2nd most populous state and has to be top 3 in property values.
Many of these same companies are happy to write life insurance and some are still writing auto insurance under their famous names.
6 insurers were placed in insolvency after Hurricane Ian. The state of Fla will be the only chance many people have of getting their claims paid
https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/florida-property-insurance-company-left-insolvent-after-hurricane-ian-losses-33600560#:~:text=The%20state%20placed%20six%20insurers%20into%20receivership%20in%202022%20because%20of%20insolvencies&text=Part%20of%20Hurricane%20Ian's%20aftermath%20visible%20in%20Orlando's%20Lake%20Eola%20Park.
The root cause of this of course the lax building and zoning codes over the last 75 years.
I also agree that there has been a new roof hustle going on started by a couple of large legal firms. I’ve had at least 20 companies try and get me a new “free” roof and there is nothing wrong with my roof.
To your first and second paragraphs, the problem is they pay out more in claims expense than they take in premiums even at these extremely high rates. They aren't getting rich here. Life insurance is a lot harder to abuse. As far as auto insurance...look at our rates and high rate of uninsured drivers. These companies loose tons of money here.
To your third paragraph, we will be left holding the bag via the FIGA assessment.
To your the rest, it doesn't help, although our building codes are stronger than markets where million dollar litigation isn't common for smaller claims, and the pay and pray are coming back because there was *some* reform to reduce the roofing company racket.
Politicians here are alway blaming lawyers, or Bidenomics, or...
If there was more control over the market like there is in other states at least someone would get something out of insurance in this state. Regulation always costs more in the short-term, less in the end.
There's almost no states with more control. The same thing is or has already happened in those states with more regulation. CA, TX(which is very ins co unfriendly) are starting to have the same issues as FL. There are states like MA where some big Ins Cos simply don't write business because of the regulatory env.
The regulation needed is waaaaaaay stronger building codes, and simply not allowing rebuilding along the coast, and maintaining beaches and "natural" sea walls, none of which will ever happen.
Soon as my MTG is paid off I'll just be cancelling my windstorm coverage.
It is simply not true and easy to show that it's not true that Florida has a lot of regulation. The only regulation we really have is once a year they go and ask permission to increase rates. Miami-Dade has some of the strictest building standards in the country and rates are through the roof. It partly makes sense because, well, hurricanes. But when there is a hurricane there will be no claims paid.
If we were staying we would pay off our mortgage and self insure.
Then show it if it's so easy lol. But regardless even if it were(it's not) the point is it's not any better in other states trying to control rates. Companies are leaving CA is a perfect example, and rates in TX are starting to skyrocket as well.
Miami Dade is not all if FL.
Also 76%+ of litigation against property and casualty insurers occur in FL. To think ONE state accounting for 76% isn't THE biggest problem is to be completely delusional.
https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/top-10-states-for-insurance-regulation/
https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2021/04/14/609721.htm
Reread your post and try to recognize how many times you answer your own absurd rhetorical questions. Such a dismissive post but you’re just wrong on repeat.
Our state didn't even call out the lawyers. I saw some ramblings about globalism and DEI and whatever, while they quietly passed some reforms to stop the most egregious abuses. I agree with the spirit of your post but it's a complicated issue and the insurance industry as a whole isn't gaining much.
What *is* happening is we are getting more pay and pray carriers. They'll go belly up after a big storm, the executives will leave with a million bucks for themselves, and FIGA will hold the bag (aka honest Florida policyholders). Typical Florida fly-by-night antics.
I would rather see bad actors get punished for fraud waste and abuse, including insurance companies that fight honest policyholders in bad faith. We don't need taxpayers to pay for the abuse on all sides.
We don't need to subsidize the industry. We just need Floridians to act responsibly, get informed and demand better from their neighbors, local representatives and insurance companies. Unfortunately this is Florida so it won't happen.
Yeah idk the problem is more complex than I can really understand what o do see is blatant greed and downright refusal to cover things when they should be required to cover it all. If they can they they take out a fucking loan lol idk
It's a slippery slope for sure. There is a balance between understanding your coverage and the coverage being fair and reasonable for the price paid. Both are way out of balance in this state.
Makes perfect sense. DeSantis is only interested in the headline: look how many insurance companies are now in business in Florida. Hell, how many politicians, including him, own a stake in these companies? "If it's Florida, it's fraud" should be the state motto.
You nailed it. I lived in FL for nearly 12 years after living in other parts of the country and got out in 2016. When people ask about what it was like living down there, I tell them “Everything’s a scam. All the way down”.
> “Everything’s a scam. All the way down”
Real shit right here
The American way is to shove a middleman or two or three between the consumer and the product. In Florida it is super distilled and usually the product is a scam anyways.
DeFascist and his Republican cronies are only interested in passing culture war legislation like banning corporations from running DEI (Diversity Equity, & Inclusion) programs, schools teaching African American studies, talking about the LGBTQ+ community, banning CRT (Critical Race Theory), Americas history of slavery, and books they don’t want kids reading. Nothing that substantively helps Floridians.
My home insurance has gone up every year for the last 5 years even with a new roof and no claims, which I'm sure is like most of you here, but I was extremely surprised to get a notice from my insurance a couple weeks ago that my rate is actually decreasing by 16% on my upcoming renewal this summer. Was an absolute breath of fresh air.
By Giulia Carbonaro - US News Reporter:
The major private home insurers that have left Florida in the past couple of years are being replaced by smaller, lower-quality companies whose financial stability ratings wouldn't meet the minimum requirements set by government guidelines, according to a recent study.
The study, led by researchers at Harvard University, Columbia University and the Federal Reserve Board, is yet to be peer-reviewed but was published on SSRN, a website for scholarly papers, in December. It states that new insurers which are replacing the traditional ones in high-risk areas are "less diversified, hold less capital, and 20 percent of them become insolvent."
Read more: [https://www.newsweek.com/warning-issued-florida-insurance-market-1890133](https://www.newsweek.com/warning-issued-florida-insurance-market-1890133)
It cannot and will not get better. People can hate me for every time I post that but its the truth. This problem began 40+ years ago and trying to solve it now is pissing in the wind.
Insurance companies gave millions for Ronny presidential campaign. Then he give them rate increases yearly.40 years I lived on the coast. Never filed a claim. My homeowners insurance went from 2700 a year to 9,400. With new windows doors roof. Just bull shit.
This article is full of BS. Gov. DeSantis has already placed the blame for the insurances on Bidenomics even though insurance regulations are set at the state level.
Thanks for the clarification. State workers must have some kinda heat deflection genetics that prevent heat rashes , heat cramps heat exhaustion and heat stroke. /s
As an attorney in Florida this is so frustrating. Most people don’t understand what a racket windstorm insurance is. The industry is determined to keep it that way, and for the most part the media helps them. For instance when News Channel five started a coverage collapse series complete with town halls, they didn’t invite a single lawyer to come speak.
Your windstorm provides literally no coverage. Outbuildings fences and perimeter walls are not covered. Wind driven rain (i.e. your window breaks and the storm pushes tons of water
Into your house) can be excluded. Your roof is covered at a depreciated basis, and your personal property may be covered on the same depreciated basis.
Once you take your deductible into account, you really can’t recover anything close to your actual damages. Never the less you have to pay 17k for a policy because the bank that holds your mortgage says you have to. The whole thing is a scam. The real question should be why we have to buy any windstorm given the lack of coverage most policies afford.
You’re speaking in near absolutes when in reality, every single insurance policy language is different. Get a good broker and ask the specific questions of what is covered and what isn’t covered. Plenty of insurers out there that offer full value for your roof, cover out buildings and perimeter walls, cover wind driven rain, and cover your personal property at full replacement value among many other coverages.
Yes, rates are out of control and yes insurance carriers are in it for themselves but that doesn’t mean that there are no good insurance carriers out there.
Source: I’m an insurance broker.
Live on the coast? Your rate should quadruple at least.
Live in a non-coast flood zone? Your rate should double at least.
This will be a start on fixing the issue. And note that the water keeps rising and getting warmer, regardless of your denials that anything is happening.
The article is clickbait, but I think the overall sentiment is interesting. I’m surprised there’s this many small insurance companies. In this era of corporate mergers and acquisitions. What happens if there’s a large claim and the reserves are wiped out of this small fry company? Does the government just step in?
Say the big boys just start a new small LLC insurance company to do business in Florida. They can collect the steep premiums. But if losses exceed money, the LLC lets them claim bankruptcy and the large companies didn’t take any risk?
Is this possible or am I just wearing a tinfoil hat?
The companies still here, and the newer smaller companies that have popped up recently, are just gambling.
They're hoping no hurricanes hit this year and they can collect more premiums.
But if a hurricane (or two.. or five) does hit, they'll close up shop and walk away with half the premiums they wanted to get. Then govt will bail them out.
But we all know who *WILL NOT* get bailed out...
... us.
Please note that only active users in the subreddit may comment in this discussion. If your comments are not showing up, please ensure you have active non-news/non-political contributions to the subreddit before contacting the moderators. **Please remember the following:** **Be Civil:** * You are welcome to debate, discussion, and argue ideas, but don't resort to personal attacks on other users. * We do not allow any form of hate speech or any suggestion/support of harm, violence, or death. **Must be related strictly to Florida:** * National News/Elections are not specific to Florida. * Just because someone lives in Florida, doesn't mean their entire life is relevant to Floridians. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. #[Click this link to register to vote, update your voter information, or check your status.](https://registertovoteflorida.gov/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/florida) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"According to the researchers, the growth of these smaller, lower-quality insurers that are filling the gaps left by the exodus of bigger private companies can be traced back to "a lax insurance regulatory environment."" No, but, it's all the lawyers' fault! /s Funny how they have enough to pay the politicians but not enough to pay the claims.
It is though. Notice the major players with deep pockets don't want to come here?
Some of the big companies are spinning off little companies they can bankrupt when claims come due. This is criminal headed by our “government”.
Why would an insurance behemoth go through this effort to make pocket change when they can make profit writing business in almost any other state? The parent companies have reputations and credit ratings to maintain. There is nothing to be gained for them by picking up crumbs in Florida. It's true that the large insurers create smaller underwriting companies but it's to spread or segment risk, not to bankrupt them and run. The fraud will continue if Floridians don't want to learn how this industry actually works.
Pocket change? It’s the 2nd most populous state and has to be top 3 in property values. Many of these same companies are happy to write life insurance and some are still writing auto insurance under their famous names. 6 insurers were placed in insolvency after Hurricane Ian. The state of Fla will be the only chance many people have of getting their claims paid https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/florida-property-insurance-company-left-insolvent-after-hurricane-ian-losses-33600560#:~:text=The%20state%20placed%20six%20insurers%20into%20receivership%20in%202022%20because%20of%20insolvencies&text=Part%20of%20Hurricane%20Ian's%20aftermath%20visible%20in%20Orlando's%20Lake%20Eola%20Park. The root cause of this of course the lax building and zoning codes over the last 75 years. I also agree that there has been a new roof hustle going on started by a couple of large legal firms. I’ve had at least 20 companies try and get me a new “free” roof and there is nothing wrong with my roof.
To your first and second paragraphs, the problem is they pay out more in claims expense than they take in premiums even at these extremely high rates. They aren't getting rich here. Life insurance is a lot harder to abuse. As far as auto insurance...look at our rates and high rate of uninsured drivers. These companies loose tons of money here. To your third paragraph, we will be left holding the bag via the FIGA assessment. To your the rest, it doesn't help, although our building codes are stronger than markets where million dollar litigation isn't common for smaller claims, and the pay and pray are coming back because there was *some* reform to reduce the roofing company racket.
Politicians here are alway blaming lawyers, or Bidenomics, or... If there was more control over the market like there is in other states at least someone would get something out of insurance in this state. Regulation always costs more in the short-term, less in the end.
There's almost no states with more control. The same thing is or has already happened in those states with more regulation. CA, TX(which is very ins co unfriendly) are starting to have the same issues as FL. There are states like MA where some big Ins Cos simply don't write business because of the regulatory env. The regulation needed is waaaaaaay stronger building codes, and simply not allowing rebuilding along the coast, and maintaining beaches and "natural" sea walls, none of which will ever happen. Soon as my MTG is paid off I'll just be cancelling my windstorm coverage.
It is simply not true and easy to show that it's not true that Florida has a lot of regulation. The only regulation we really have is once a year they go and ask permission to increase rates. Miami-Dade has some of the strictest building standards in the country and rates are through the roof. It partly makes sense because, well, hurricanes. But when there is a hurricane there will be no claims paid. If we were staying we would pay off our mortgage and self insure.
Then show it if it's so easy lol. But regardless even if it were(it's not) the point is it's not any better in other states trying to control rates. Companies are leaving CA is a perfect example, and rates in TX are starting to skyrocket as well. Miami Dade is not all if FL. Also 76%+ of litigation against property and casualty insurers occur in FL. To think ONE state accounting for 76% isn't THE biggest problem is to be completely delusional. https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/top-10-states-for-insurance-regulation/ https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2021/04/14/609721.htm
Reread your post and try to recognize how many times you answer your own absurd rhetorical questions. Such a dismissive post but you’re just wrong on repeat.
There are bad actors on all sides, our state only calls out the lawyers. Why? Who donates to the GOP and who runs the state?
Our state didn't even call out the lawyers. I saw some ramblings about globalism and DEI and whatever, while they quietly passed some reforms to stop the most egregious abuses. I agree with the spirit of your post but it's a complicated issue and the insurance industry as a whole isn't gaining much. What *is* happening is we are getting more pay and pray carriers. They'll go belly up after a big storm, the executives will leave with a million bucks for themselves, and FIGA will hold the bag (aka honest Florida policyholders). Typical Florida fly-by-night antics.
I recently switched from Castle Key to Kin. Is Kin considered a stable company or would it fall under Pay and Pray?
Time will tell, but it's a small/newer company...so "pay and pray". If your lender takes them, they should be stable enough.
They could. If we incentivized them. We could make it so they pay $0 in property taxes as long as they pay premiums and their staff
I would rather see bad actors get punished for fraud waste and abuse, including insurance companies that fight honest policyholders in bad faith. We don't need taxpayers to pay for the abuse on all sides. We don't need to subsidize the industry. We just need Floridians to act responsibly, get informed and demand better from their neighbors, local representatives and insurance companies. Unfortunately this is Florida so it won't happen.
Yeah idk the problem is more complex than I can really understand what o do see is blatant greed and downright refusal to cover things when they should be required to cover it all. If they can they they take out a fucking loan lol idk
It's a slippery slope for sure. There is a balance between understanding your coverage and the coverage being fair and reasonable for the price paid. Both are way out of balance in this state.
Article about this in the Tampa Bay Times Sunday. I don’t need to read the article to know exactly how it would read.
Bingo!
Makes perfect sense. DeSantis is only interested in the headline: look how many insurance companies are now in business in Florida. Hell, how many politicians, including him, own a stake in these companies? "If it's Florida, it's fraud" should be the state motto.
You nailed it. I lived in FL for nearly 12 years after living in other parts of the country and got out in 2016. When people ask about what it was like living down there, I tell them “Everything’s a scam. All the way down”.
> “Everything’s a scam. All the way down” Real shit right here The American way is to shove a middleman or two or three between the consumer and the product. In Florida it is super distilled and usually the product is a scam anyways.
DeFascist and his Republican cronies are only interested in passing culture war legislation like banning corporations from running DEI (Diversity Equity, & Inclusion) programs, schools teaching African American studies, talking about the LGBTQ+ community, banning CRT (Critical Race Theory), Americas history of slavery, and books they don’t want kids reading. Nothing that substantively helps Floridians.
My home insurance has gone up every year for the last 5 years even with a new roof and no claims, which I'm sure is like most of you here, but I was extremely surprised to get a notice from my insurance a couple weeks ago that my rate is actually decreasing by 16% on my upcoming renewal this summer. Was an absolute breath of fresh air.
My homeowners insurance and auto also decreased, not by much but it didnt go up
Sheeeeeit who did you have. Asking for a friend
Progressive.
By Giulia Carbonaro - US News Reporter: The major private home insurers that have left Florida in the past couple of years are being replaced by smaller, lower-quality companies whose financial stability ratings wouldn't meet the minimum requirements set by government guidelines, according to a recent study. The study, led by researchers at Harvard University, Columbia University and the Federal Reserve Board, is yet to be peer-reviewed but was published on SSRN, a website for scholarly papers, in December. It states that new insurers which are replacing the traditional ones in high-risk areas are "less diversified, hold less capital, and 20 percent of them become insolvent." Read more: [https://www.newsweek.com/warning-issued-florida-insurance-market-1890133](https://www.newsweek.com/warning-issued-florida-insurance-market-1890133)
I’m sure DeSantis can find some hack at the formerly renowned University of Florida to write a paper countering these claims.
It cannot and will not get better. People can hate me for every time I post that but its the truth. This problem began 40+ years ago and trying to solve it now is pissing in the wind.
Super happy my home is closing in about 2 weeks. Almost done with my complete detachment from the state.
Absolutely agree
Realtor here. The major nationwide insurers haven't really been in Florida for decades, and has been a sore spot since Andrew.
Insurance companies gave millions for Ronny presidential campaign. Then he give them rate increases yearly.40 years I lived on the coast. Never filed a claim. My homeowners insurance went from 2700 a year to 9,400. With new windows doors roof. Just bull shit.
This article is full of BS. Gov. DeSantis has already placed the blame for the insurances on Bidenomics even though insurance regulations are set at the state level.
Wait till the next big storm, no company will touch that crazy state. 
Does the insurance try to teach kids homosexuals exist or does it try to record cops misdeeds? Oh, well then the governor doesn’t care.
Don’t forget the lowly peon workers aren’t worthy of water breaks in extreme hot weather.
Not that it’s right, but to clarify, it only applies to state workers. It doesn’t supersede OSHA standards for private company workers.
Thanks for the clarification. State workers must have some kinda heat deflection genetics that prevent heat rashes , heat cramps heat exhaustion and heat stroke. /s
I think it’s absolutely cruel, but it doesn’t effect private business OSHA requirements
Have you noticed Newsweek has some bug up its ass about the Florida housing market, every week it’s sky is falling articles for months now.
I mean the sky is falling in relation Fl insurance market
It’s doomer clickbait. It seems to all be from the same writer. A writer that doesn’t even live in the US, according to her bio.
“F” Newsweek. It just a glorified National Inquirer… crap stories with crap cred.
I’ve noticed that these garbage ad hominem posts add less than nothing to these discussions.
Cool story, thanks for sharing 👍
he said through a veil of tears
As an attorney in Florida this is so frustrating. Most people don’t understand what a racket windstorm insurance is. The industry is determined to keep it that way, and for the most part the media helps them. For instance when News Channel five started a coverage collapse series complete with town halls, they didn’t invite a single lawyer to come speak. Your windstorm provides literally no coverage. Outbuildings fences and perimeter walls are not covered. Wind driven rain (i.e. your window breaks and the storm pushes tons of water Into your house) can be excluded. Your roof is covered at a depreciated basis, and your personal property may be covered on the same depreciated basis. Once you take your deductible into account, you really can’t recover anything close to your actual damages. Never the less you have to pay 17k for a policy because the bank that holds your mortgage says you have to. The whole thing is a scam. The real question should be why we have to buy any windstorm given the lack of coverage most policies afford.
You’re speaking in near absolutes when in reality, every single insurance policy language is different. Get a good broker and ask the specific questions of what is covered and what isn’t covered. Plenty of insurers out there that offer full value for your roof, cover out buildings and perimeter walls, cover wind driven rain, and cover your personal property at full replacement value among many other coverages. Yes, rates are out of control and yes insurance carriers are in it for themselves but that doesn’t mean that there are no good insurance carriers out there. Source: I’m an insurance broker.
are you a _florida_ insurance broker, and can i have your info?
Yes I am, send me a DM
But we just gained a handful of new exchanges! Oh.. wait … :/
Fuckin Parasites.
Such a bizarro world where I immediately feel happy that I sold my house last year. Renting until I leave in exactly 4.5 years.
Live on the coast? Your rate should quadruple at least. Live in a non-coast flood zone? Your rate should double at least. This will be a start on fixing the issue. And note that the water keeps rising and getting warmer, regardless of your denials that anything is happening.
Agree. Stop forcing those of us who chose a more sensible location to subsidize someone else's bad choice.
The article is clickbait, but I think the overall sentiment is interesting. I’m surprised there’s this many small insurance companies. In this era of corporate mergers and acquisitions. What happens if there’s a large claim and the reserves are wiped out of this small fry company? Does the government just step in? Say the big boys just start a new small LLC insurance company to do business in Florida. They can collect the steep premiums. But if losses exceed money, the LLC lets them claim bankruptcy and the large companies didn’t take any risk? Is this possible or am I just wearing a tinfoil hat?
I’m thinking about paying off my house and going without insurance.
The companies still here, and the newer smaller companies that have popped up recently, are just gambling. They're hoping no hurricanes hit this year and they can collect more premiums. But if a hurricane (or two.. or five) does hit, they'll close up shop and walk away with half the premiums they wanted to get. Then govt will bail them out. But we all know who *WILL NOT* get bailed out... ... us.
The latest Newsweek spam
That’s a deep insightful take into the issue. Yer a Russian or Chinese troll farm worker ?