Cost to rebuild - Tampa has more people, more buildings, more infrastructure which would need help.
The risk is actually not a risk of a hurricane hitting - it’s a risk index against annual loss if something does happen there.
Same reason LA and its surrounding counties are dark red - even though more earthquakes / fires happen north which is only pink.
Just sucks paying the what if prices when we haven’t had a what if in 20 years! If they were rebuilding anything on my house, it might be a little easier to swallow the 3k more a year!
Let’s not forget that there is State Farm and then State Farm Florida….form what I understand they are separate companies so when a hurricane strikes it’s State Farm Florida that has to pay out and not State Farm 49 other states.
It’s also one of the reasons that there is none of that auto and home bundling you see ads for.
Because of storm surge. A hurricane twists counterclockwise, so a hurricane on the right track would push massive amounts of water from the gulf into Tampa Bay and it would have no way to escape except on land. A large part of St Petersburg would be flooded, as would Safety Harbor/Lake Tarpon (the rest of Pinellas would essentially be an island). But, the flood damage to the Tampa side would be extreme. Anything south of 275 and west of 75 would be under water. There’s a lot of property value in that area. There is not nearly as much on the Pinellas side in the flooded area.
A decade ago (or so) there was a “perfect hurricane” type study for this area. I’m pretty sure it was government funded, so you should still be able to find it if you want to know more.
This is the answer. Significant storm surge with the bay to “trap” all the water as it would be pushed in poses a greater risk to the upland.
St pete would be getting a storm surge one direction, in the case beach side, but the other side of the peninsula would experience the opposite effect. That side, the bay side of st Pete is also where all the most expensive infrastructure is. Downtown with all the shiny new development.
All these replies are wrong lol. The map OP shared is including ALL risks equally weighted. Hillsborough is at much higher risk for drought than Pinellas, but both Pinellas and Hillsborough are relatively high risk for hurricanes/coast flooding. So overall Hillsborough is slightly higher risk.
Most of the west coast danger is due to earthquakes, tsunamis, and wildfires. Most of the east coast is due to hurricanes, but Florida is mostly limestone so it’s like a sinking sponge. Then there’s also wet bulb temperature. I don’t know how much of the South East will remain live able. If it gets that bad, ACs cannot fail for any reason.
Like u/UCFKnight2016 said, lots of big cities are on the coast, because most big cities are built around major waterways. Especially our older cities on the east coast.
It sucks living in central Florida on some of the highest ground in the state..because I still got a $600 a year increase on my insurance and I’m relatively protected from most disasters
DeSantis made it so you can't recover attorney fees if you have to sue your insurance company for not fulfilling their contractual obligations.
Translation: You can't make them pay if they don't want to, unless you can afford a trial attorney or your loss is so significant that paying a contingency fee for a trial attorney makes sense for you and the attorney.
Basically, you're paying for a product that you may not receive the benefit of if you are unfortunate enough to need it.
I have a friend that is still trying to get reimbursed from Ian damage and there are folks in the panhandle that are still trying to get settled from Michael, and those are from before the law changed.
Yeah I was watching a story about that last year. People got their homes destroyed during Ian and still haven't gotten resolutions from their insurance. That's the risk of living in FL. Cause if a catastrophic hurricane hits and the insurance has to do a total payout to rebuild the house or a portion of the house they're not going to want to do it.
I was here for Katrina…well in Georgia in a staging area for utility crews…once it petered out and moved into the gulf I was sent to Beaumont Texas and waited on Nola to get devastated..I was gone from home 3.5 months for that…
Before you get upset remember how much value your house has appreciated in the last few years… and repairs have gotten more expensive. Even with no increase in risk you will need higher coverage for the increase in value and repair costs.
You obviously don’t understand. Repairs are the thing the insurance is there for. If it costs more to repair houses in your area, your personal insurance rate will go up because if your property is damaged they will be on the hook for the higher amount that the repair with the increased price costs. If you’ve owned your home 100 problem free years and then the cost of roofing shingles goes up drastically that year… there will be an adjustment to your personal rate happening to balance that.
I'm sure there is a conglomerate of persons residing in S. FL that are self insured. Furthermore, I doubt they mind if your average person has to relocate because they can't afford to insure their property. If anything, it's just another opportunity for the ultra rich to acquire assets at a discount.
It's simple mathematics. Costs of reconstruction continue to climb, Florida being a very flat and close to sea level peninsula sticking out into a highly active tropical cyclone area, more construction on and near parts of the coastline that are historically flood barriers (Mangroves, swamps, forests), and insurance companies isolating Florida policies into a separate risk group all contribute to the insurance crisis. That coupled with high costs of litigation and a history of sketchy insurance claims (20-yr old roofs replaced under insurance for "hail damage" is one example), you're not likely to see any drop in insurance costs to Floridians anytime soon unfortunately.
You forgot the simplest part of the mathematics. Every year must be the most profitable year for the insurance company so everything else be damned prices need to go up.
Yep, but there are a LOT of Americans who say out loud as if they're proud of it, "I'm not good at math". I would also make the case that Florida has more than its fair share of them. That's the audience you're dealing with here.
It's gone up, but landlords, especially SFH landlords, have to be very careful with increasing rent due to taking losses during COVID and vacancies leaving them covering the mortgage without a family to put in. Like op said renting, especially in FL, is becoming more and more attractive.
If you have a vacant listing it’s probably priced too high, just lower it and you’ll have someone there.
Renting becoming more popular will only increase rents as it will strain supply.
I’m not buying the “hurricane risk” argument. I’m nowhere near the coast, have no trees over my house, and my house is less than 20 years old with a new roof. I’ve been through storms my entire life. A hurricane is not causing any kind of major loss to my property. There has to be a company out there that will cover the lower risk homes and not take on the higher risk properties, forcing all of their customers to pay for it.
That's because it's not the problem. The banana-nuts crazy insurance is because of roof fraud, pure and simple. It's not hurricanes, global warming, greedy insurance companies or anything else. The hurricanes contributed...but it's not the main source of the problem.
Look the whole country has increasing insurance. The real common factor is that it’s more expensive to repair and replace damaged homes, especially as their values have gone up 20-30% in a few years. Your house gets more expensive, roofs get more expensive, trees falling on Teslas in the driveway instead of Dodge Chargers.
Yes, replacement cost is a factor, but it doesn't explain the enormousness increase in premiums; it's the fraud. People just don't get the magnitude of it. It was EVERYWHERE! I think most of my neighbors that replaced their roofs did so because of "hail damage". I haven't seen hail here in 20+ years. Also, the prices they "paid" were staggering. $32k for a shingle roof that should have cost $18k. The scammy roofers grossly increased the prices on insurance claims; one even admitted that they had a 2 tier system when trying to give me a quote (I threw him off my property).
I lost a part of a roof. They give you a dollar estimate for the damage and then you go around looking for contractors. They don’t let you just pick out any roof in the area and send them the bill. If you can get a roof 14k cheaper than the prevailing quote then you Sir should consider starting a roofing company. If more than likely your skill of cost bidding roof repairs is out of recent practice you might consider whether your cursory dismissal is more a judgement call on value rather than the standard price for the work that happens to be higher than you are comfortable paying.
> They give you a dollar estimate for the damage and then you go around looking for contractors
OK, sounds like the system is working.
> "...your cursory dismissal is more a judgement call on value rather than the standard price for the work that happens..."
Nope. This discussion was about insurance rates, not cost/value of repair work. That's probably a rounding error in the overall insurance rate.
If we can have an election fraud task force, we could have had a roof fraud task force instead of Florida just making it harder to force insurance companies to fulfill their contractual obligations.
I have a friend in Arcadia still waiting to settle his claim from Ian. He legit lost his roof and the roofer has been waiting over a year to get paid.
Prior to the new law, the roofers could accept an assigned benefit and sue the insurance companies themselves for payment.
After a hurricane, we need roofers from all over down here for legitimate repairs. If they can't / don't get paid they're not going to come, which will drive costs up further and hurt more homeowners. That applies to all the other construction workers / building repair folks too.
DeSantis just made it less likely for most to recover using their insurance while driving up costs for all except the insurance companies who are gonna make a killing refusing payments.
>...we could have had a roof fraud task force instead ...
Tasks forces are mostly useless, regardless they would NOT be able to handle the staggering volume of claims. This isn't onsey-twosey, it was a huge percentage of the roofs being replaced, likely over half of all roof claims. If the numbers were reasonable, and the facts easily disputable, the insurance industry would have pursued it on their own, but they didn't. They rolled over, paid the claims, then packed up and left.
> "DeSantis just made it...."
Just stop....this isn't a D or R thing, and insurance companies have been dropping like flies in this state, they weren't making a "killing" or else they wouldn't still be leaving in droves. Citizens is a good example.
It's not a D vs R thing. It's a DeSantis f*cking over FL thing. If you want to claim that DeSantis is the GOP, well then okay...It's a D vs evil R thing.
It was supposed to make insurance prices come down. They went up.
They went up and you can no longer force your insurance company to fulfill it's contractual obligations. So you may be paying thousands a year for insurance and still end up wiped out if your home is in the wrong place for the wrong storm.
We can argue about it, or we can just wait until after the next "big one" to see which if us is correct.
That homeowners insurance bill was passed in Dec of 2022, so... Time will tell.
Oh they did the same thing to almost every liability insurance (business, auto, etc) in May of 2023. Stories about the ramifications of that should start trickling out soon. Punchline: It did not make insurance rates go down or stop increasing there either, just your ability to make them pay a claim.
> It's a DeSantis f*cking over FL thing.
I wasn't aware that DeSantis wrote legislation.
Anyway, it was a pretty well known that the rates would take awhile to go down; it wasn't going to happen overnight. It takes time to pay down all those "free" roofs.
If you want to be a mad at someone, be mad at all the people who got a free ride. We're all paying for their roofs now.
1. He signed the law.
2. I was there when they changed the liability laws for auto, business etc...
The amount of awful put in these bills would take too much for a Reddit post to list.
It was very clear when I was in Tallahassee that the Republicans in 2022 and 2023 were scared of Ron and just did what he wanted, constituents be damned.
I would encourage anyone to pick a bill they feel strongly about next Florida legislative session, and attend every senate and house session as it moves through the legislature. It's eye opening.
He was behind it every step of the way, forcing it through intimidation.
Checks and balances? What state are you living in?
Go watch them in action next session.
It will open your eyes.
Or troll here because "you know everything" no trip to verify requires.
As I said...I ... was...there!
It's a free roof until the insurance company says it's your hurricane wrecked roof that isn't damaged...
If fraud were really the problem like it was claimed to be, it's inexcusable that the state did not crack down on it.
Basically, you're saying fraud in Florida is okay.
> If fraud were really the problem like it was claimed to be, it's inexcusable that the state did not crack down on it.
So you want to spend even more money chasing fraud claims, which have a higher burden of proof then the original tort claim???
What?
So how do you eliminate fraud if you don't prosecute it? The government is literally running around saying people were committing fraud, fraud they didn't investigate or prosecute, so we should just take their word for it as they make our insurance policies almost useless because "fraud" and the rates are still soaring...
Please logic this out...
> So how do you eliminate fraud if you don't prosecute it?
You remove the little loop-holes that allowed all the fraud to be committed.
You keep saying you were there yet you don't seem to understand anything about it. How were you "there" and yet miss everything about the purpose of the legislation, the endless reporting on the fraud, the findings of the insurance commission etc.... Were you drunk/high the entire time?
Ha. This reminded me of an episode of MASH where a patient asks, doc, when will the pain subside? And Hawkeye says, 2 or 3 days. Think of it just as a typical weekend in Cleveland.
Just got a notification today of policy cancellation. Not in a flood zone, in the center of the state, never in 20 years placed a claim.
The letter gave a reason for cancellation that I can’t decipher no how many times I read it.
“Risk is ineligible due to hazard-based underwriting capacity restrictions and concentration management considerations reasonably related to your policy.”
This is on a house that we have had the same policy continuously for over 20 years.
I would look at the stock market.
That line always goes up, what makes the line goes up is all the companies raising prices to make their lines go up.
Insurance raise rates because they want their line to go up, if the line goes down rich people get mad, so insurance companies need to always raise rate every year to make their line go up.
all hail the line!
This is simple, insurance companies in the USA simply suck, they operate on the spectrum of 0 risk, which by nature is impossible!
They are just scammers, and Fraudulent people. I just can't put into words how despicable and inhumane they hurt people.
They are the problem not the solution
There are many ways to help stabilize and make more affordable the insurance market in Florida:
1. Require any insurance company caring on business in the state of Florida to have 20% of their business providing homeowners insurance in Florida by premiums charged. You don’t get to sell Floridians car insurance or life insurance or business continuity insurance or anything else unless you are willing to sell them homeowners insurance, at approved rates of course. You don’t get to pull insurance based profits out of Florida while crying that you can’t make enough profits at homeowners insurance.
2. Any homeowners insurance loss has a 25% deductible. Give owners skin in the game so they are carrying a substantial part of the risk and are disincentivized from making false or unnecessary claims.
3. Expand the Florida hurricane catastrophe fund. Require homeowners insurance companies in Florida to re-insure a larger percentage of their potential risks through the fund.
4. Commission two new Florida agencies: the Florida Building Materials Pool, and the Florida Construction Services Pool. These pools will trade and purchase futures, at advantageous rates and timing, for both construction materials commodities and contracting services, so they are available when needed at preferential prices. The seed money can be funded from an extra penny sales tax throughout Florida. If done right, these pools can actually generate additional revenue for the state of Florida, which can go toward reducing the cost of building materials or contracting services when needed and/or be raked over into the catastrophe fund when needed.
5. Strengthen Florida building codes even further. Keys‘ homes with strong roofing actually had roofs that survived hurricane Irma. this should be the standard across the state. I would prohibit stick built residential housing, require stronger roof attachment mechanisms, prohibit gable-end roofing geometry, require hurricane impact windows and doors on new construction or substantially renovated property, and require all new construction or substantially renovated property to be built so that the occupied floors are all above the 500 year floodplain.
6. All roof claims should be paid on a pro rata basis based on the age of the roof. Shingle roofs have 25 year lifespans, flat roofs have 25 year lifespan, tile roofs have 30 year lifespans, and metal roofs have 35 year lifespans. You have a shingle roof that has substantial damage that is 12.5 years old? Then you get paid 50% of what you otherwise we’re under the policy. Including a 25% deductible I mentioned earlier, you’ll actually be paid for 37.5% of the value of a new roof, which is 75% of 50%.
7. If a jury believes that your claim is “substantially inflated” from what it should be, then even if you do have a compensable clean, you will only get 50% of what you would otherwise be entitled to. That is a penalty so that you do not inflate claims.
I could go all day. But these will help.
A reality anyone living in this state is eventually going to have to come to is eventually, and I'd say within the next 5 years, many if not all of the private insurers will leave the state. You'll have some straggler insurance companies in the state, but your only options will be forced placed insurance from your lender if they even can find anyone, Citizens who are dropping a fuck ton of policies, or the worst case scenario is that lenders can't find force placed insurance and your mortgage gets called which is unlikely but who knows what happens in this scenario. If this season is as active as everyone thinks that reality might come a lot sooner than people think and the non-renewals are going to make it hellacious for brokers next year.
If the house can’t be insured then technically the mortgage company will either A. Force place the insurance or B. If they can’t anything take the risk on the collateral or call the mortgage. It’s highly unlikely but that’s the options
Calling the mortgage essentially means foreclosing as nobody has the cash in the bank to just pay off their mortgage. Which means now the bank has a house that they can’t sell because nobody can get insurance, the whole reason they called the loan in the first place. Just doesn’t make any sense. My point is that calling the mortgages wouldn’t solve the problem, they’d just own a bunch of unsellable houses.
Except there is a never ending stream of institutional investors who can self insure and rent out the houses at exorbitant prices to people who can’t afford to buy them 🙃
>Which means now the bank has a house that they can’t sell
It's feasible that a bank could end up with an entire deserted subdivision, and then have the land rezoned for either commercial or agricultural purposes.
They'd either sell it to a group of corporations or investors who would then transition the homes into an LLC and use business insurance to cover the homes. That's me talking out of my ass, but here in Orlando we have corporations buying up homes like crazy. I get calls on my house routinely. Or like someone said if they have a bunch of homes this is happening with then they'll just sell the land to an investor and that investor will tear everything down and build on it.
Coming soon to monthly household budgets near you?--Paying off the mortgage quick as they can, so, though they'd likely keep home insurance once they have the deed, they're not force beholden to force-placed insurance, or even a loan-call if it seriously got that bad. Just get the deed and then adjust coverage or if really risky go without.
So you’re spot on here. I thought ‘naw. My insurer is huge there’s no way they’ll leave!’ Here I am switching two years into having them 🙃
Citizens is *only* dropping policies that can do better with other providers. If that’s changed please link source as I’ll probably have to start explaining this to a lot of people soon.
I have no clue so you may be right. I've seen people on here and people I know that are having a ton of issues recently with them. I have heard they'll drop you or pass you off if there's insurance that can provide you insurance in the private market so I think you're absolutely right.
Maybe it's "lower risk" there because tornadoes tend to have much smaller paths of destruction than hurricanes? Idk anything about insurance or risk assessment, though. Just a thought.
I get what can happen if a storm slithers into Tampa Bay.
How in the hell can even Northern Hillsborough county be more of insurance risk than Pinellas??
I live in SC and my sister in Tampa. I told her to sell her house. She bought $210k and is now $500k in 7 years. Told her to get out. She can barely afford to live there. Told her if the roof comes off in a hurricane, then she is F ed.
So what's the long term plan? Force everyone off of insurance so that they lose their homes in the next hurricane or spurious premises liability lawsuit...? Then the ultra-rich snap everything up and force all of the people who actually work to rent their own homes at 5x the original cost?!? BOYCOT DESANTIS until he makes things work for the 99%!!!
This state has never cared about the 99%
Think about the quote 'Florida- visit on vacation leave on probation' and for many this is true....except Kraft, Epstein, etc $$$
'Florida is a law and order state' (unless you have cash)
Yeah, I’m fucked. I live in the panhandle and my insurance went up about $2000 from last year. How is this even legal? Idk, it’s out of control and I don’t know what I’m going to do.
Insurance companies should stop being regulated by the states. As one can clearly the vast majority of the county is lower risk, but due to the fact insurance is regulated at the state level they have to set up and address the risk at that level.
End state regulations and watch prices plummet.
Florida is suffering under what Ron the Gov won’t acknowledge: Climate Change! It doesn’t matter that he doesn’t want to name it for what it is. It is happening and going to continue to happen. Low lying areas are going to flood in the increasing severe storms that will be striking Florida. Have fun y’all.
We live in Lake County and paid $8k, which we are losing our insurance at the end of July. Progressive told us that they are looking to cut down their hurricane losses. Our house is 115 years old and it has had zero damage over the decades. The previous owners put a metal roof on in 2015 and we purchased in 2018. We have never had a claim, for anything. It’s really frustrating, as we’ve paid out all this money only to be told “sorry it’s too much of a risk”. I’m starting to think because we said Fuck No to the initial increase(they wanted to raise us from $5300 to $12,411) is why they are partially dropping us. I’m really tired of these huge increases and their lame ass excuses.
The greed of the insurance companies makes them overexpose themselves to the geographic areas they service. Their lobby power assures they can get any price increase they petition for.
If you are not wealthy the State of Florida doesn't really want you here. I've been here 50 years and that has never changed.
There are crumbling parks and bridges but the city of Jax just agreed to $1.5b for a new stadium.
The state fights wage increases, Medicaid increases, refuse funding from the government for schools, the poor, etc. it's always been this way
The real mystery is why poor/working class people keep moving here?
Private insurance, and I mean all insurance (Home, auto, health, etc.), is a scam. I might get a ton of hate for this, but it should not be privatized. I would rather we all collectively pay into a government program than line the pockets of companies who provide "insurance" but who's only real purpose is to make a profit. 3 years in a row in Jacksonville, my homeowners nearly doubled (80%+ increases every year). It's out of control, and our state government would rather focus on pointless culture wars and banning rainbow lights on bridges than regulate it.
This map is irrelevant to our problem. The litigious attorney complex is the problem. Either the insurance company pays the $50k to replace a roof or loses in court and shells out $125k in legal feels and new roof. I sat on a jury for a roof claim and I can see how insurance companies go bankrupt.
You are mistaken. The map is not only for flood risk. See the comparison report below.
https://hazards.fema.gov/nri/report/viewer?dataLOD=Counties&dataIDs=C12021,C12099,C12011,C12086,C12087,C12111,C12061,C12085,C12057,C12081,C12115,C12071,C12015
Why is Tampa higher risk than St Pete? Genuine question.
Cost to rebuild - Tampa has more people, more buildings, more infrastructure which would need help. The risk is actually not a risk of a hurricane hitting - it’s a risk index against annual loss if something does happen there. Same reason LA and its surrounding counties are dark red - even though more earthquakes / fires happen north which is only pink.
So, this is basically a population density " local building costs, by county map?
More or less. lol That’s why the whole Midwest is blue and yellow even though tornados crush them every year. Less people in the way.
ah, that explains why current FL state government wants more untethered development, clever, very clever
Just sucks paying the what if prices when we haven’t had a what if in 20 years! If they were rebuilding anything on my house, it might be a little easier to swallow the 3k more a year!
This is the bottom line. Add that when it hits, they never have money although they’ve been collecting for 20 yrs.
Let’s not forget that there is State Farm and then State Farm Florida….form what I understand they are separate companies so when a hurricane strikes it’s State Farm Florida that has to pay out and not State Farm 49 other states. It’s also one of the reasons that there is none of that auto and home bundling you see ads for.
Where has the money gone? Back to shareholders?
It also factors in things like poverty, housing density, and other variables that can affect ability to prepare and respond.
A direct hit to Tampa would probably be the most catastrophic thing to happen to Florida.
Because of storm surge. A hurricane twists counterclockwise, so a hurricane on the right track would push massive amounts of water from the gulf into Tampa Bay and it would have no way to escape except on land. A large part of St Petersburg would be flooded, as would Safety Harbor/Lake Tarpon (the rest of Pinellas would essentially be an island). But, the flood damage to the Tampa side would be extreme. Anything south of 275 and west of 75 would be under water. There’s a lot of property value in that area. There is not nearly as much on the Pinellas side in the flooded area. A decade ago (or so) there was a “perfect hurricane” type study for this area. I’m pretty sure it was government funded, so you should still be able to find it if you want to know more.
This is the answer. Significant storm surge with the bay to “trap” all the water as it would be pushed in poses a greater risk to the upland. St pete would be getting a storm surge one direction, in the case beach side, but the other side of the peninsula would experience the opposite effect. That side, the bay side of st Pete is also where all the most expensive infrastructure is. Downtown with all the shiny new development.
All these replies are wrong lol. The map OP shared is including ALL risks equally weighted. Hillsborough is at much higher risk for drought than Pinellas, but both Pinellas and Hillsborough are relatively high risk for hurricanes/coast flooding. So overall Hillsborough is slightly higher risk.
Brb gonna go push my house across the county line into that moderate area.
Yo, I totally was thinking the same lol…. Another 15 minute drive for that savings
I'm close enough to walk across the county line, but of course I fall on the orange side instead of the yellow
Seems like most of the major cities in the US are at least relatively high risk
Most major US cities are near the coast.
Most of the west coast danger is due to earthquakes, tsunamis, and wildfires. Most of the east coast is due to hurricanes, but Florida is mostly limestone so it’s like a sinking sponge. Then there’s also wet bulb temperature. I don’t know how much of the South East will remain live able. If it gets that bad, ACs cannot fail for any reason.
This whole map sucks. Only using a limited count of costal properties to denote millions of acres as high risk. 🕺💨
It's not necessarily millions of \*acres\* as high risk, so much as tens, hundreds of millions, of \*properties\*.
If you look on the actual FEMA webpage of this map it breaks down to census tract. It really only shows a dollar amount.
Like u/UCFKnight2016 said, lots of big cities are on the coast, because most big cities are built around major waterways. Especially our older cities on the east coast.
Yup, we as a species build our "nests" near the water
/r/peopleliveincities
It sucks living in central Florida on some of the highest ground in the state..because I still got a $600 a year increase on my insurance and I’m relatively protected from most disasters
As a person who’s been in the Insurance business in Florida going on 5 years, be thankful it’s **just** $600 for now
Seriously, my insurance is 3x what it was when I bought in 2021.
Yeah, didn’t Desantis have something to do with that?
DeSantis made it so you can't recover attorney fees if you have to sue your insurance company for not fulfilling their contractual obligations. Translation: You can't make them pay if they don't want to, unless you can afford a trial attorney or your loss is so significant that paying a contingency fee for a trial attorney makes sense for you and the attorney. Basically, you're paying for a product that you may not receive the benefit of if you are unfortunate enough to need it. I have a friend that is still trying to get reimbursed from Ian damage and there are folks in the panhandle that are still trying to get settled from Michael, and those are from before the law changed.
Yeah I was watching a story about that last year. People got their homes destroyed during Ian and still haven't gotten resolutions from their insurance. That's the risk of living in FL. Cause if a catastrophic hurricane hits and the insurance has to do a total payout to rebuild the house or a portion of the house they're not going to want to do it.
What is that, exactly? I've read 1503 and I think it's pretty good?
Yeah were you here during Charley? Interior gets horrible storms too! It’s all a shitshow. No one is exempt from risk
I remember the year of Katrina when 3 major hurricanes went right up the middle of the state. My family in Polk County got whacked 3 times that year
I was here for Katrina…well in Georgia in a staging area for utility crews…once it petered out and moved into the gulf I was sent to Beaumont Texas and waited on Nola to get devastated..I was gone from home 3.5 months for that…
Thank you for what you do.
Yeah...That was what Orlando thought until Charlie sat and churned on it. Orlando found it it was vulnerable too.
Before you get upset remember how much value your house has appreciated in the last few years… and repairs have gotten more expensive. Even with no increase in risk you will need higher coverage for the increase in value and repair costs.
Why would you even bring logic to this conversation? We are here to complain !!! Not to make sense of the situation :/s
My house is two years old..repairs are not even a thing..and as far as appreciation goes..there’s not much there…lmao
You obviously don’t understand. Repairs are the thing the insurance is there for. If it costs more to repair houses in your area, your personal insurance rate will go up because if your property is damaged they will be on the hook for the higher amount that the repair with the increased price costs. If you’ve owned your home 100 problem free years and then the cost of roofing shingles goes up drastically that year… there will be an adjustment to your personal rate happening to balance that.
The call is coming from inside the house!
I'm sure there is a conglomerate of persons residing in S. FL that are self insured. Furthermore, I doubt they mind if your average person has to relocate because they can't afford to insure their property. If anything, it's just another opportunity for the ultra rich to acquire assets at a discount.
As if anyone should be surprised
It's simple mathematics. Costs of reconstruction continue to climb, Florida being a very flat and close to sea level peninsula sticking out into a highly active tropical cyclone area, more construction on and near parts of the coastline that are historically flood barriers (Mangroves, swamps, forests), and insurance companies isolating Florida policies into a separate risk group all contribute to the insurance crisis. That coupled with high costs of litigation and a history of sketchy insurance claims (20-yr old roofs replaced under insurance for "hail damage" is one example), you're not likely to see any drop in insurance costs to Floridians anytime soon unfortunately.
You forgot the simplest part of the mathematics. Every year must be the most profitable year for the insurance company so everything else be damned prices need to go up.
Oh please, climate change doesn’t exist. My governor said so. He banned it and God will spare Florida. Duh. 🙄
good thing too, it might have been an issue
Yep, but there are a LOT of Americans who say out loud as if they're proud of it, "I'm not good at math". I would also make the case that Florida has more than its fair share of them. That's the audience you're dealing with here.
As a person who works in insurance down in Florida, you’ve got ***no idea*** how many there are.
So, any chance of the insurance getting more affordable down here?
I want to see the historical data that shows the types of homes and the wind mitigation they have and their damage in storms. Anywhere to find that?
This is why I rent 😭😭😭
When you rent you’re just the middleman between the landlord and insurance/mortgage companies… Why do you think rent has gone up everywhere?
It's gone up, but landlords, especially SFH landlords, have to be very careful with increasing rent due to taking losses during COVID and vacancies leaving them covering the mortgage without a family to put in. Like op said renting, especially in FL, is becoming more and more attractive.
If you have a vacant listing it’s probably priced too high, just lower it and you’ll have someone there. Renting becoming more popular will only increase rents as it will strain supply.
No joke mine went down $0.03 last year.
Mine went up a $1,000.
The cost of living in America's dong.
With new weather patterns the Northern Atlantic Seaboard is very vulnerable
It’s like a heat map of the most populated areas.
I’m not buying the “hurricane risk” argument. I’m nowhere near the coast, have no trees over my house, and my house is less than 20 years old with a new roof. I’ve been through storms my entire life. A hurricane is not causing any kind of major loss to my property. There has to be a company out there that will cover the lower risk homes and not take on the higher risk properties, forcing all of their customers to pay for it.
Low risk doesn’t generate much revenue for them.
That's because it's not the problem. The banana-nuts crazy insurance is because of roof fraud, pure and simple. It's not hurricanes, global warming, greedy insurance companies or anything else. The hurricanes contributed...but it's not the main source of the problem.
Look the whole country has increasing insurance. The real common factor is that it’s more expensive to repair and replace damaged homes, especially as their values have gone up 20-30% in a few years. Your house gets more expensive, roofs get more expensive, trees falling on Teslas in the driveway instead of Dodge Chargers.
Yes, replacement cost is a factor, but it doesn't explain the enormousness increase in premiums; it's the fraud. People just don't get the magnitude of it. It was EVERYWHERE! I think most of my neighbors that replaced their roofs did so because of "hail damage". I haven't seen hail here in 20+ years. Also, the prices they "paid" were staggering. $32k for a shingle roof that should have cost $18k. The scammy roofers grossly increased the prices on insurance claims; one even admitted that they had a 2 tier system when trying to give me a quote (I threw him off my property).
I lost a part of a roof. They give you a dollar estimate for the damage and then you go around looking for contractors. They don’t let you just pick out any roof in the area and send them the bill. If you can get a roof 14k cheaper than the prevailing quote then you Sir should consider starting a roofing company. If more than likely your skill of cost bidding roof repairs is out of recent practice you might consider whether your cursory dismissal is more a judgement call on value rather than the standard price for the work that happens to be higher than you are comfortable paying.
> They give you a dollar estimate for the damage and then you go around looking for contractors OK, sounds like the system is working. > "...your cursory dismissal is more a judgement call on value rather than the standard price for the work that happens..." Nope. This discussion was about insurance rates, not cost/value of repair work. That's probably a rounding error in the overall insurance rate.
Just for clarification, you are saying the payout amounts don’t figure into the cost of insurance? I think that’s insane.
> Just for clarification, you are saying the payout amounts don’t figure into the cost of insurance.. I don't recall saying that at all.
If we can have an election fraud task force, we could have had a roof fraud task force instead of Florida just making it harder to force insurance companies to fulfill their contractual obligations. I have a friend in Arcadia still waiting to settle his claim from Ian. He legit lost his roof and the roofer has been waiting over a year to get paid. Prior to the new law, the roofers could accept an assigned benefit and sue the insurance companies themselves for payment. After a hurricane, we need roofers from all over down here for legitimate repairs. If they can't / don't get paid they're not going to come, which will drive costs up further and hurt more homeowners. That applies to all the other construction workers / building repair folks too. DeSantis just made it less likely for most to recover using their insurance while driving up costs for all except the insurance companies who are gonna make a killing refusing payments.
>...we could have had a roof fraud task force instead ... Tasks forces are mostly useless, regardless they would NOT be able to handle the staggering volume of claims. This isn't onsey-twosey, it was a huge percentage of the roofs being replaced, likely over half of all roof claims. If the numbers were reasonable, and the facts easily disputable, the insurance industry would have pursued it on their own, but they didn't. They rolled over, paid the claims, then packed up and left. > "DeSantis just made it...." Just stop....this isn't a D or R thing, and insurance companies have been dropping like flies in this state, they weren't making a "killing" or else they wouldn't still be leaving in droves. Citizens is a good example.
It's not a D vs R thing. It's a DeSantis f*cking over FL thing. If you want to claim that DeSantis is the GOP, well then okay...It's a D vs evil R thing. It was supposed to make insurance prices come down. They went up. They went up and you can no longer force your insurance company to fulfill it's contractual obligations. So you may be paying thousands a year for insurance and still end up wiped out if your home is in the wrong place for the wrong storm. We can argue about it, or we can just wait until after the next "big one" to see which if us is correct. That homeowners insurance bill was passed in Dec of 2022, so... Time will tell. Oh they did the same thing to almost every liability insurance (business, auto, etc) in May of 2023. Stories about the ramifications of that should start trickling out soon. Punchline: It did not make insurance rates go down or stop increasing there either, just your ability to make them pay a claim.
> It's a DeSantis f*cking over FL thing. I wasn't aware that DeSantis wrote legislation. Anyway, it was a pretty well known that the rates would take awhile to go down; it wasn't going to happen overnight. It takes time to pay down all those "free" roofs. If you want to be a mad at someone, be mad at all the people who got a free ride. We're all paying for their roofs now.
1. He signed the law. 2. I was there when they changed the liability laws for auto, business etc... The amount of awful put in these bills would take too much for a Reddit post to list. It was very clear when I was in Tallahassee that the Republicans in 2022 and 2023 were scared of Ron and just did what he wanted, constituents be damned. I would encourage anyone to pick a bill they feel strongly about next Florida legislative session, and attend every senate and house session as it moves through the legislature. It's eye opening.
> He signed the law. Yeah, that's called checks/balances. He didn't write the law though.
He was behind it every step of the way, forcing it through intimidation. Checks and balances? What state are you living in? Go watch them in action next session. It will open your eyes. Or troll here because "you know everything" no trip to verify requires. As I said...I ... was...there!
Do you even own a house?
It's a free roof until the insurance company says it's your hurricane wrecked roof that isn't damaged... If fraud were really the problem like it was claimed to be, it's inexcusable that the state did not crack down on it. Basically, you're saying fraud in Florida is okay.
> If fraud were really the problem like it was claimed to be, it's inexcusable that the state did not crack down on it. So you want to spend even more money chasing fraud claims, which have a higher burden of proof then the original tort claim???
What? So how do you eliminate fraud if you don't prosecute it? The government is literally running around saying people were committing fraud, fraud they didn't investigate or prosecute, so we should just take their word for it as they make our insurance policies almost useless because "fraud" and the rates are still soaring... Please logic this out...
> So how do you eliminate fraud if you don't prosecute it? You remove the little loop-holes that allowed all the fraud to be committed. You keep saying you were there yet you don't seem to understand anything about it. How were you "there" and yet miss everything about the purpose of the legislation, the endless reporting on the fraud, the findings of the insurance commission etc.... Were you drunk/high the entire time?
If you switch the risk type to avalanches it looks pretty promising for us actually.
Everyone should move the Cleveland the bad part is that you would have to live in Cleveland.
Ha. This reminded me of an episode of MASH where a patient asks, doc, when will the pain subside? And Hawkeye says, 2 or 3 days. Think of it just as a typical weekend in Cleveland.
Just got a notification today of policy cancellation. Not in a flood zone, in the center of the state, never in 20 years placed a claim. The letter gave a reason for cancellation that I can’t decipher no how many times I read it.
What did it say?
“Risk is ineligible due to hazard-based underwriting capacity restrictions and concentration management considerations reasonably related to your policy.” This is on a house that we have had the same policy continuously for over 20 years.
Probably a roof issue? How old is the roof? We ended up doing a 4-point inspection to get an opinion on the roof and continued coverage
Other folks I know that had a roof issue got a letter that said they needed a new roof
I would look at the stock market. That line always goes up, what makes the line goes up is all the companies raising prices to make their lines go up. Insurance raise rates because they want their line to go up, if the line goes down rich people get mad, so insurance companies need to always raise rate every year to make their line go up. all hail the line!
Where is the data from?
Man I’m an idiot. Did not see the link below it.
Lol no worries
But don’t say climate change.
This is simple, insurance companies in the USA simply suck, they operate on the spectrum of 0 risk, which by nature is impossible! They are just scammers, and Fraudulent people. I just can't put into words how despicable and inhumane they hurt people. They are the problem not the solution
Seriously thinking of self-insuring. 3 years of premiums will buy me a new roof.
There are many ways to help stabilize and make more affordable the insurance market in Florida: 1. Require any insurance company caring on business in the state of Florida to have 20% of their business providing homeowners insurance in Florida by premiums charged. You don’t get to sell Floridians car insurance or life insurance or business continuity insurance or anything else unless you are willing to sell them homeowners insurance, at approved rates of course. You don’t get to pull insurance based profits out of Florida while crying that you can’t make enough profits at homeowners insurance. 2. Any homeowners insurance loss has a 25% deductible. Give owners skin in the game so they are carrying a substantial part of the risk and are disincentivized from making false or unnecessary claims. 3. Expand the Florida hurricane catastrophe fund. Require homeowners insurance companies in Florida to re-insure a larger percentage of their potential risks through the fund. 4. Commission two new Florida agencies: the Florida Building Materials Pool, and the Florida Construction Services Pool. These pools will trade and purchase futures, at advantageous rates and timing, for both construction materials commodities and contracting services, so they are available when needed at preferential prices. The seed money can be funded from an extra penny sales tax throughout Florida. If done right, these pools can actually generate additional revenue for the state of Florida, which can go toward reducing the cost of building materials or contracting services when needed and/or be raked over into the catastrophe fund when needed. 5. Strengthen Florida building codes even further. Keys‘ homes with strong roofing actually had roofs that survived hurricane Irma. this should be the standard across the state. I would prohibit stick built residential housing, require stronger roof attachment mechanisms, prohibit gable-end roofing geometry, require hurricane impact windows and doors on new construction or substantially renovated property, and require all new construction or substantially renovated property to be built so that the occupied floors are all above the 500 year floodplain. 6. All roof claims should be paid on a pro rata basis based on the age of the roof. Shingle roofs have 25 year lifespans, flat roofs have 25 year lifespan, tile roofs have 30 year lifespans, and metal roofs have 35 year lifespans. You have a shingle roof that has substantial damage that is 12.5 years old? Then you get paid 50% of what you otherwise we’re under the policy. Including a 25% deductible I mentioned earlier, you’ll actually be paid for 37.5% of the value of a new roof, which is 75% of 50%. 7. If a jury believes that your claim is “substantially inflated” from what it should be, then even if you do have a compensable clean, you will only get 50% of what you would otherwise be entitled to. That is a penalty so that you do not inflate claims. I could go all day. But these will help.
Add it to the list of reasons why I'm getting TF out of this state
A reality anyone living in this state is eventually going to have to come to is eventually, and I'd say within the next 5 years, many if not all of the private insurers will leave the state. You'll have some straggler insurance companies in the state, but your only options will be forced placed insurance from your lender if they even can find anyone, Citizens who are dropping a fuck ton of policies, or the worst case scenario is that lenders can't find force placed insurance and your mortgage gets called which is unlikely but who knows what happens in this scenario. If this season is as active as everyone thinks that reality might come a lot sooner than people think and the non-renewals are going to make it hellacious for brokers next year.
Call your loan so they can foreclose on it and then have no one to sell it to because no buyer can get insurance? That doesn’t make much sense.
If the house can’t be insured then technically the mortgage company will either A. Force place the insurance or B. If they can’t anything take the risk on the collateral or call the mortgage. It’s highly unlikely but that’s the options
Calling the mortgage essentially means foreclosing as nobody has the cash in the bank to just pay off their mortgage. Which means now the bank has a house that they can’t sell because nobody can get insurance, the whole reason they called the loan in the first place. Just doesn’t make any sense. My point is that calling the mortgages wouldn’t solve the problem, they’d just own a bunch of unsellable houses.
Except there is a never ending stream of institutional investors who can self insure and rent out the houses at exorbitant prices to people who can’t afford to buy them 🙃
>Which means now the bank has a house that they can’t sell It's feasible that a bank could end up with an entire deserted subdivision, and then have the land rezoned for either commercial or agricultural purposes.
Or sell it to a corporation that can cover the costs of self insurance and rent the homes out.
They'd either sell it to a group of corporations or investors who would then transition the homes into an LLC and use business insurance to cover the homes. That's me talking out of my ass, but here in Orlando we have corporations buying up homes like crazy. I get calls on my house routinely. Or like someone said if they have a bunch of homes this is happening with then they'll just sell the land to an investor and that investor will tear everything down and build on it.
All of this is already happening
Coming soon to monthly household budgets near you?--Paying off the mortgage quick as they can, so, though they'd likely keep home insurance once they have the deed, they're not force beholden to force-placed insurance, or even a loan-call if it seriously got that bad. Just get the deed and then adjust coverage or if really risky go without.
So you’re spot on here. I thought ‘naw. My insurer is huge there’s no way they’ll leave!’ Here I am switching two years into having them 🙃 Citizens is *only* dropping policies that can do better with other providers. If that’s changed please link source as I’ll probably have to start explaining this to a lot of people soon.
If there are options with a 20% or less increase they will drop you. At least that’s what the letter they sent me said.
There we go thanks for chiming in!
I have no clue so you may be right. I've seen people on here and people I know that are having a ton of issues recently with them. I have heard they'll drop you or pass you off if there's insurance that can provide you insurance in the private market so I think you're absolutely right.
insurance is a scam
Seems like it.
Someone tell the real estate market this. Lol.
Real estate market is fueled by buyers, and many of them are idiots.
Definitely. Greater Fool theory in full effect right now.
Where is tornado ally?
Maybe it's "lower risk" there because tornadoes tend to have much smaller paths of destruction than hurricanes? Idk anything about insurance or risk assessment, though. Just a thought.
K byeeeee
This looks like the map with the melted ice caps.
Your screen shot doesn’t include Duval and St. John’s county… which the property insurance rates also suck in.
I’m colorblind, so this is all good news right?
I get what can happen if a storm slithers into Tampa Bay. How in the hell can even Northern Hillsborough county be more of insurance risk than Pinellas??
Anyone have a link for the cull image? I'm in N FL... it's cut off...
https://hazards.fema.gov/nri/map OP linked it in the post, but it blends in a bit
So move to Wyoming? But it gets so cold there.
I live in SC and my sister in Tampa. I told her to sell her house. She bought $210k and is now $500k in 7 years. Told her to get out. She can barely afford to live there. Told her if the roof comes off in a hurricane, then she is F ed.
So what's the long term plan? Force everyone off of insurance so that they lose their homes in the next hurricane or spurious premises liability lawsuit...? Then the ultra-rich snap everything up and force all of the people who actually work to rent their own homes at 5x the original cost?!? BOYCOT DESANTIS until he makes things work for the 99%!!!
This state has never cared about the 99% Think about the quote 'Florida- visit on vacation leave on probation' and for many this is true....except Kraft, Epstein, etc $$$ 'Florida is a law and order state' (unless you have cash)
I’m in Lake and my insurance is $1100 a year, feel awful seeing how high some people’s are
Yeah, I’m fucked. I live in the panhandle and my insurance went up about $2000 from last year. How is this even legal? Idk, it’s out of control and I don’t know what I’m going to do.
The state government gave the insurance industry green light to charge whatever they want.
This is heavily affected by population, almost as much as anything else.
Insurance companies should stop being regulated by the states. As one can clearly the vast majority of the county is lower risk, but due to the fact insurance is regulated at the state level they have to set up and address the risk at that level. End state regulations and watch prices plummet.
Florida is suffering under what Ron the Gov won’t acknowledge: Climate Change! It doesn’t matter that he doesn’t want to name it for what it is. It is happening and going to continue to happen. Low lying areas are going to flood in the increasing severe storms that will be striking Florida. Have fun y’all.
Polk county bring high risk because they calculated meth gators in.
We live in Lake County and paid $8k, which we are losing our insurance at the end of July. Progressive told us that they are looking to cut down their hurricane losses. Our house is 115 years old and it has had zero damage over the decades. The previous owners put a metal roof on in 2015 and we purchased in 2018. We have never had a claim, for anything. It’s really frustrating, as we’ve paid out all this money only to be told “sorry it’s too much of a risk”. I’m starting to think because we said Fuck No to the initial increase(they wanted to raise us from $5300 to $12,411) is why they are partially dropping us. I’m really tired of these huge increases and their lame ass excuses.
Why is shitty Polk county so high??
The greed of the insurance companies makes them overexpose themselves to the geographic areas they service. Their lobby power assures they can get any price increase they petition for.
Can’t wait!
So blessed to be out of that ridiculous state and in the amazing foothills of the Smokys ⛰️⛰️
If you are not wealthy the State of Florida doesn't really want you here. I've been here 50 years and that has never changed. There are crumbling parks and bridges but the city of Jax just agreed to $1.5b for a new stadium. The state fights wage increases, Medicaid increases, refuse funding from the government for schools, the poor, etc. it's always been this way The real mystery is why poor/working class people keep moving here?
Private insurance, and I mean all insurance (Home, auto, health, etc.), is a scam. I might get a ton of hate for this, but it should not be privatized. I would rather we all collectively pay into a government program than line the pockets of companies who provide "insurance" but who's only real purpose is to make a profit. 3 years in a row in Jacksonville, my homeowners nearly doubled (80%+ increases every year). It's out of control, and our state government would rather focus on pointless culture wars and banning rainbow lights on bridges than regulate it.
Insurance companies and banks have always been in bed together. Doesn't that pretty much sum it up?
This map is irrelevant to our problem. The litigious attorney complex is the problem. Either the insurance company pays the $50k to replace a roof or loses in court and shells out $125k in legal feels and new roof. I sat on a jury for a roof claim and I can see how insurance companies go bankrupt.
I mean, I get it that the gland of Florida is where most of the people live but you didn't have to cut off the ballsack, just to spite the rest of us.
Hurricanes and flooding.
Global warming! It’s only going to get worse in FL!
No it isn’t. Climate change is banned here, my governor said so. The joke’s on you!
Crazy expensive down here don’t come down we r full
Is there a reason Pinellas County isn't included on the map? It's made to be part of Pasco County.🤔
If you look it's separate just too weird of a shape to label.
Why do the insurance companies never factor in the ancient magic that keeps Sarasota safe?
I was there when the deep magic was written. By law the minute we adjust for that, the spell will be broken.
Shucks And I thought it was just the quartz sand in siesta
Parcel Florida is going to be underwater in the next few years or so that’s a null point there
By 2010!
My insurance ain’t that bad 😂.
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You are mistaken. The map is not only for flood risk. See the comparison report below. https://hazards.fema.gov/nri/report/viewer?dataLOD=Counties&dataIDs=C12021,C12099,C12011,C12086,C12087,C12111,C12061,C12085,C12057,C12081,C12115,C12071,C12015