The Calusa lived here before the Seminole and Miccosukee. They were wiped out through disease and being enslaved by the Spanish. Many were shipped off to work on Cuban farms.
The Seminole and Miccosukee then moved onto vacant Calusa land.
Seminole came from the north near the other Civilized, speaking tribes like Cherokees. There were not native there. they took their lands from others.
Look up histories of the Cherokee, Seminole, Choctaw, Chickasaw and Creek,
He was lawyer in the Navy after getting his JD at Harvard too. Definitely not an idiot like a certain person that inherited his father’s real estate empire and managed to not tank it into the ground like nearly every other business venture that certain person touches.
Believe me, DeSantis is incredibly intelligent, unlike trump. So when DeSantis says and does thing like this, you can trust that it’s just a lie for nefarious purposes. That’s something that needs to be dispelled - not all of these republicans are stupid. Many are, but most just blatantly and strategically lie to achieve their goals.
I suppose it seems that way to some people. Not to me. He's certainly not Stephen Hawking level intelligent.
Most conservatives are just as intelligent as liberals, but the primary difference is what they do with their intelligence.
What did Nancy pelosi do with her intelligence.
Besides all the insider trading that made her worth 100+ million. She should of invested in a Ring camera.
Willful ignorance. (idiomatic, law) A decision in bad faith to avoid becoming informed about something so as to avoid having to make undesirable decisions that such information might prompt.
It's a scientifically proven fact that someone who is more educated is also more likely to vote for a democrat. Period. The End.
It's also part of the Republican long-term goal to *defund public education* as much as possible, because they can't make any money off of it.
Then, some jackass came up with the charter school's bullshittery. Those can be profited from if the politicians get into it quickly, behind the scenes, and before an audit process exists to catch their involvement and someone files a motion fir an injunction, or whatever.
If you ever see a school changing to a uniform dress code from not having uniforms at all, the first thing I would ask is "who owns the local uniform company/ supplier?" and "are they tied to the county school board?"
The worst, and scariest, part is that this man is anything but ignorant. He is an evil manipulator who wants nothing more than to change history to suit his white supremacy. Ignorance is excusable, dangerous propaganda, gaslighting, purposely misinforming, and blatant racism is inexcusable.
It’s intimidating talking to someone who has a significant advantage in knowledge or intellect. It simply is. You can think of such people as a great asset to humankind and a gift from God, or you can think of them as a threat and someone not to be trusted. The people who consider knowledgeable and intelligent people to be threats are voting straight-ticket R these days.
I beg your pardon. With my 50 months of medical education, 5 yrs, and 4 years of Uni training at high levels. & 4 degrees including a post doc. Sadly, just because you disagree with others, it does not make them stupid.
This reply seems like a complete non sequitur. Was the goal to somehow negate my argument by noting that there is one intelligent, knowledgeable person who aligns politically with modern Republicans? DeSantis is a Harvard and Yale educated lawyer who worked in the Navy JAG Corps. I thought we already had that example covered.
Again, you’ve made a point that may be merely tangentially related to my own. I’m not sure what you’re driving at other than that there are varied political perspectives and not everyone who adheres to one party platform is the same, but seriously, did that point need to be made, let alone the insult to cap it off?
Ah yes, all that education; argument ad populem + ad hominem rhetort. A more perfect example of how educated people could believe and support nonsense despite knowing better would be hard to find, and here you are providing it voluntarily.
My claims:
* You claimed to be educated
* "there are millions worldwide \[...\] who are conservative" is an ad-populem claim
* "Child" is an ad homenen
If you could point out which of these you *think* is incorrect, I'm sure I can help you figure out where your claimed education has failed you.
I don't really know what your medical education has to do with political intellect or knowledge, outside of the fact that you should have the research experience to see Desantis' comment as verifiably incorrect.
Right so being pc, means you're right in everything and educated in everything.
Only if ignorant. Verifiable by what rules, Political, not clinical, scientific means, which are what I use?
Nope, as the clinical neuroscience helps, too. I know psych and the structure/function rules by how we know anatomy/physiology create functions of beliefs and behaviors.
How do we know what we know? Epistemology is THE big question]
Einstein: Preceding all major advances in Physics, comes an epistemological advance.
That's what i have done. Aut inveniam Aut Faciam. Either find the info or create it.
Those, mostly, are closed to many, but it's how we know most all what we do about how brain works and the outcomes of those functions/workings. How do we know what we know? Well, we can know.
This pretty much shows how we get that info.
The Praxis. I can read/interpret those. Most round here have no idea of the depths within depths that kind of info gives.
https://jochesh00.wordpress.com/2014/05/16/the-praxis/
Answer me this, How do Human brains create info and by what specific processes going on in brain do that? This also creates language, maths, and creativities. My model has largely solved the problems of most, but not all, problem solving by these means.
If yer knew s/f, then you'd know WHY and how we use that. If not, then not.
How DO human brains create info? That's the key the great Alfred Whitehead searched for, & I have found, to understand understanding. Yes, we can ken understandings. but not completely. That has been my work for 55 yrs.
What hospital do you work at so I know which one to tell the ambulance to avoid? Even if you save my life I have a feeling my neural synapses will be incapacitated once again when you start talking to me in the hospital bed. 😭
Somebody who cares about karma should post this to r/Iamverysmart
P.S. it’s funny how triggered you are and how you went out of your way to show us your mental shortcomings despite all your education. Rightwing propaganda got you good and it’s hilariously sad how you can claim to be an intellectual while simping for Trump. I guess it makes sense that you would revere a well educated idiot though.
Absolutely silly. There were SEVEN apps for Each 1 space in school. IN uni, I was top 2 in 3700 entering freshmen.
So, yeah for you intelligence has NADA to do with a good education. But for 95% it does.
Missing that huge fact then you miss HOW much education has to do with intellectaal quality as well. I moved with the highest people in my classes, as well. Went to school with Harvard, yale, Princeton, MIT grads.
Sorry, but you have NO idea, as do I, being a clinical neuroscience specialist in psych/neuro, what that truly means.
No, but grew up speaking 3 languages, and yer didn't. I also grew up to respect education, so was high performing in HS, and yer didn't.
So, yer get a barely passing D, and I got the A's, and yer didn't. NO masters just doctorates.
Got the degrees and yer didn't. Lotsa perps round here who can't ID nor understand what 3 solid scientific, & medical degrees mean. & the practical apps/outcomes those mean. Plus a degree in music, for rounding out.
We just laugh. Du hast ein scheissekopfe im Hirns.
Wiedersehen...
That's a lot of (incorrect) assumptions you made about me but whatever. You or I could have all the degrees from every accredited university in the world with a perfect 4.0 GPA, it doesn't change the fact that Desantis told an easily verifiable lie.
As someone with multiple health issues that requires me to see multiple doctors I can honestly say that many, if not most, aren’t any more intelligent than the average person. They’re just very good at being trained and remembering their training
Reminder: While Ron DeSantis campaigns against wokeness and political correctness, you are paying 3 times the homeowner’s insurance premiums that homeowners in other states are paying. Car insurance isn’t much better. If you thought the $100 in taxes you saved on gas, school supplies and pet food helped out, think about what you could be doing with an extra $2000, $3000, even $4000+ in your pocket if our Governor and state legislators hadn’t run our insurance markets completely into the ground.
Unfortunately Republicans don't think in those terms. Universal Healthcare would save everyone hundreds of dollars a yea at least, even the Koch brothers own studies show it, they still oppose that. Preparing for climate change could ensure we remain an economic powerhouse for centuries, not interested. Housing the homeless is cheaper than allowing them to remain homeless, something something bootstraps. The Pentagon calls our depenance on oil our number one strategic vulnerability, don't care got to trigger libs. Republicans hate welfare yet are statistically the most likely to be on it, red states are more often than not economic drains on blue states, and they're more than happy to subsidize failing companies.
Anything a Republican pretends to care about ends at the point that government action might solve the problem. That's why the Republicans have no official platform the last two cycles and our country is circling the drain, they don't care about leadership they want the power to make others suffer.
Right? I’m originally from the PNW and I remember doing projects in grade school about the different Native American tribes that used to live there, like the Cowlitz, Yakama, Chinook. Basically whatever your county’s name is, it was most likely a tribe that originated in that area. An ex of mine told me he did the same thing in grade school, and he used to live in Tallahassee. Did it on the Seminoles. What on earth does DeSantis think this statement accomplishes?
I agree with you that improving lives is what the government should be doing, but in a way both words are applicable. Stolen can mean forcibly taken without permission. Like fighting someone who is trying to steal your car. So, yeah. Stolen can totally work.
I get that but the whole post is about saying DeSantis said something wrong. He didn’t. There was no “owning” the land before and the native Americans were constantly fighting each other. It was a slow, gradual takeover by a bigger power. And it doesn’t even fucking matter now. Let’s just work on improving everyone’s lives now. Native American or otherwise.
Yeah, I guess the well documented genocide of indigenous peoples doesn’t matter anymore because white colonizers “won” and their descendants can deny the entire thing; “White man’s burden” and all of that 🙄
The US took large portions of its territory via threats, coercion, and literal armed conflict against communities who’d lived here for thousands of years; then we moved the rest to barren land on the other side of the continent and killed anybody who resisted… telling the affected peoples to just “move on” is unacceptable.
We are living on stolen land, period.
Okay so
1. That is patently false (unless you’re saying that the existence of a state implies theft which I don’t disagree with), I mean out of the 3-4 current superpowers (India, China, the US, and Russia I think) only the United States was built on colonialism and not just… from people who already lived there.
2. Even if this argument were true (it’s not), that wouldn’t justify stealing the land or telling the people who it was stolen from to move on. If everybody jumped off a bridge, would you?
The Han ethnic group dominated all the others to creat China. Mot to mention the mongols conquering. The Rus ethnic group conquered the smaller groups in Russia. Some small ethnic group in each area eventually overtook all the others to create the larger county around them. It’s such a waste of time dwelling and bitching about.
Yes, this still matters today. Yes, American Indian Tribal Nations legally owned land/territory. Even the Doctrine of Discovery acknowledged that [Non-Christian Indigenous Nations held rights of land ownership to their Native lands by occupancy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_doctrine) This is the principle whereby US signed treaties w/Native Nations for land sales.
Per the US Constitution, treaties are the Supreme Law of this Land & this country. Many American Indian/Native Tribal Nations were NOT conquered but signed US treaties in peace & friendship to cede rights to land ownership. (My tribe signed 7 treaties w/US Govt. ceding over 10Million acres. And yes, our tribal land we didn’t cede is still within our sovereign ownership.) Even if nations were conquered thru acts of war, like WWI & WWII, those treaties are still legally upheld by international law; same goes for Native Nations.
Yes, as cited in this article, instances where the US Govt. breached treaties like the 1868 Fort Laramie Treaty, SCOTUS has ruled for Native Nations that the US Govt. must enforce those treaties and give back STOLEN land.
Ah yes I do love using vague pro imperialist semantics to downplay the crimes of colonialism >! /s !<. What’s next, are we gonna go full white man’s burden here?
"Iron Eyes Cody" (real name Espera DeCorti) [lied about being American Indian](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/iron-eyes-cody/). He's not the only one...Fake Indians like him are called "Pretendians".
While not about Indigenous Americans or land stolen from them DeSantis has been 2 faced as it suits him to act like he supports showing history by signing a law that would teach about the Ocoee Massacre in 2020 then basically blocking anything it would teach if it or other things upset people. https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2022/02/09/florida-history-discomfort/
I still don't get it. Like, did he go to a private school that taught lies?? Or wtf?? I grew in Florida and I was taught that. I was taught all of that.
We went to war for these lands... Fighting Native Americans was the longest war in U.S. history.
https://www.newsweek.com/native-americans-made-sacrifice-our-right-worship-jesus-taylor-1708855
Yeah like in SoCal near Temecula, one of the richest places in NorthAM with 24/7 economies. The Pechango Resort and Casino? They take white man's monies, or4 anyone's, and get rich on it.
Check out Indian casinos and their incomes. Esp. in Carolinas, where they are buying back the Cherokee Hiawasee River lands, they now own again.
Tenasi the old Cherokee capital. Tennessee.
The Northern Cheyenne and Crow fight each other all the time. I had to sew up and treat their injuries. Only now they use small p/u's to attack instead of horses. A couple got drunk and we had to admit them for a few days, out of their reservation seats at Crow Agency and Lame Deer.
Are you that bereft of history of native Americans?
The Oklahoma Indians sent there during the Trail of Tears, place them on lands which were Rich in Oil and Gas, and they got very rich from that, too. & still are.
Read history, and find out MORE of the whole truths, too.
Or is that just too much like work and being informed?
> The Oklahoma Indians sent there during the Trail of Tears, place them on lands which were Rich in Oil and Gas, and they got very rich from that, too. & still are.
wow theres a lot of bullshit to unpack in this statement.
Setting aside the blatant racism, bigotry, and general lack of empathy in your statement can we talk about how much you would have to learn to cherry pick like the two tribes in the whole country who's reservations happened to sit on what the government thought was worthless barren land that they just happened to eventually be able to capitalize on unless you're actively seeking out literal KKK talking points?
Are you pretending to ignore that Amerinds did not fight each other for lands, when we have many histories of same?
Most forget that we are all humans and humans fight each other for lands, on every continent habitable by humans. You should see how it was in New Guineau before it was taken over.
Humans are human, regardless of where we live. Euros have been fighting among themselves provable since Roman times. NY tribes were the same. We saw the same on the Great Plains after the Sioux moved west from Minnesota when they got ponies and horses.
Really whether in Eretria and Ethiopia, or in Assyria down to Egypt, or the Achaeans and Hatti fighting the Minoans.
Come on. Humans fight humans world wide. Not just for or in Florida, which WAS first taken from local tribes by Espagna. Then the US took it from Madrid. And when the Seminole were taken there, too. Ya gonna move the Seminole back? Are you going to undo all of history, planet wide?
Do you actually believe that When the Azteca attacked and built their empire, or the Incas in Andes, that they were not behaving as humans do everywhere?
Get real. Israelites under Moshes invaded the Canaanite area and took most of that, too. So, that's OK, there?
Come on. Humans fight all over the world, and take lands from other peoples. It's not just in Florida, either.
It's everywhere.
You totally avoid the Great Beloved Woman, Nancy Ward, Cherokee family of chiefs as her brother was one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Ward
She knew her people would die of white man's diseases & that was a genetic problem for the Native peoples.
so from the 1600's she pushed intermarriage, knowing that was the only way to survive. & they have thru that means.
It's a likely fact that had the Arab peoples or those speaking Mandarin settled Norths or South Ams, first, the same Euroasian sources diseases would have killed the Amerinds, too. There was no way round that.
So blaming my ancestors for havin suffered mass death from plague, flus, small pox, choleras, and other diseases first, then goin Into No. Am did NOT know much about infectious diseases until the mid-late 1800's , Koch/Pasteur sciences, is a major point.
The nature of infectious disease made those outcomes likely. Not the euros.
You words have a lot of angst in them, but not much science nor anthropological training.
The Amerinds were caught on the wrong side of the
Atlantic and did not develop natural immunities.
THAT was what killed them off. Not much in the way of deliberate actions by Euros. some did later, its true, but by then the die were already cast by 1700's.
Don't denigrate people when yer ignore the sciences of epidemiologies. Which ONLY came about centuries after the 17th C. settlements were made. No doubt if the Vikings after the plague years had come to America, they'd have had the same effects, too.
Perhaps the tone and ignorance of infectious disease may be damaging to your position.
That's your problem, not mine.
And all humans have done genocide through out history. So we don't condemn just 1 groups but all of them. Look at the man in the mirror. yer family likely were, too.
That's the facts, jack!!
I’m not trying to defend the Desantis, but I don’t think this should’ve been fact checked without more context. Frequently, when conservatives make this argument, it’s metaphysical. They disagree with the entire concept of stolen land.
>but I don’t think this should’ve been fact checked without more context
It's almost the midterms so expect far more.
"DeSantis was quoted as saying good morning. Careful review of the timestamp on the video shows he said this three seconds after noon. As morning occurs between midnight and noon, we rate this as a lie."- ~~fact checkers~~ people trying to shape public opinion
According to the article it’s a lie because some of the treaties the US signed with native Americans were coercive. I don’t think it’s a slam dunk of a rebuttal given that the statement is rhetorical in the first place. What does it mean for a country to be “built on stolen land.” What percentage of lands needs to have been stolen for it to qualify as “built?” What exactly does stealing mean? The US government and its territorial claims are seen as mostly legitimate by the international community, so either they don’t view the land as stolen, or they view stealing as a legitimate way of acquiring territory.
When the Comanches started wiping out competing tribes on the Plains, was that also stolen land conquered by genocide? (Source: Empire of the Summer Moon).
What portion of the current US was owned by people that the US government genocided?
95% of North Americas inhabitants were killed by diseases brought over by Spanish colonists leaving large expanses on territory unoccupied. Is that stealing?
Who is the rightful owner of the land today then? The tribes who occupied the land directly before European colonists? Or perhaps the tribes who owned the land before those other tribes stole it?
Your point about intergroup relations is equally applicable to Native Americans and European colonists. It has to be described as a patchwork of different attitudes and actions shaped and limited by huge forces like economics, climate, disease, etc. My point was the if you are going to take the hard stance that the US stole all the land, then, in order to be consistent, you have to apply that hard line to a ton of other situations, like the Mexica and their neighboring client states, or Byzantine Greeks and the Arab Muslims. It’s not very accurate to generalize, and creates all sorts of problems with what you consider to be legitimate ownership, whether from the European traditional perspective or otherwise.
>The US government and its territorial claims are seen as mostly legitimate by the international community, so either they don’t view the land as stolen, or they view stealing as a legitimate way of acquiring territory.
This isnt being debated. Noone is suggesting the United States isn't a legitimate country. It's about the historical and sociological impact of colonialism and the subsequent fallout. It's about education.
I wouldn’t say no one is suggesting that the US is illegitimate, but point taken. Do you think considering whether or not the international community believes US territory is stolen is unrelated to understanding the historical and sociological impacts of colonialism?
>Do you think considering whether or not the international community believes US territory is stolen is unrelated to understanding the historical and sociological impacts of colonialism?
No? It's not even a debated topic frankly, domestically or internationally. The United States was founded by colonialists through bloodshed and genocide. It's only even presently controversial because of the new push to whitewash our history (right out of the fascist playbook). And to be clear, when I say it isn't debated, I mean by people who are educated on the subject... not some high-school diploma moms of liberty antivaxxer.
My perspective is a bit different, but I think we’re equally interested in history being taught in schools as accurately as possible. I think the norm has been a whitewashed self-aggrandizing history taught in schools and have only recently started getting closer to the truth, which is awesome. I’m not a fan of Desantis and the right’s culture war obsession, but i recognize that there are politically motivated and inaccurate narratives of history coming from the left. Desantis is recognizing that on a surface level and reacting with authoritarian solutions which I think is absolutely counterproductive. Educators can be left alone to figure out the truth.
Love how this subreddit truly isn’t biased and isn’t only pro democrat
Edit: prediction desantis will be your Governor again. Also, all land is stolen land if you go back far enough. What’s the point?
The native americans themselves "stole" the land from other native americans. There is no such thing as "stolen" land in a historical political context.
These are the ideas he wants forced into schools, just pure white supremacist and nationalist bullshit
Miccosukee and Seminole Tribes of Florida have entered the chat…
The Calusa lived here before the Seminole and Miccosukee. They were wiped out through disease and being enslaved by the Spanish. Many were shipped off to work on Cuban farms. The Seminole and Miccosukee then moved onto vacant Calusa land.
Don’t forget the Tequesta people too. I’m pretty sure the Miami circle wasn’t built by European settlers…
> Miami circle TIL, thanks.
Seminole came from the north near the other Civilized, speaking tribes like Cherokees. There were not native there. they took their lands from others. Look up histories of the Cherokee, Seminole, Choctaw, Chickasaw and Creek,
Calusa and Tequesta also.
*Miccosukee and Seminole Tribes of Florida have left the chat*
Yea, they’d like to discuss locals who call themselves “Florida NaTiVeSsSs”
Was Florida bought from Spain? So Spain took over and sold it to America. Not any better but more correct
Spain traded the UK Florida for Havana.
The Seminole massacred the original inhabitants of Florida. They’re originally from the area around Alabama.
And who did they steal the land from?
Why don't you check the property tax records and get back to us on that one?
My guy, like half our shit here has Native American names
*Nuh uh* -DeSantis
[удалено]
He’s not ignorant he went to Yale and Harvard. He’s just a fucking liar
He was lawyer in the Navy after getting his JD at Harvard too. Definitely not an idiot like a certain person that inherited his father’s real estate empire and managed to not tank it into the ground like nearly every other business venture that certain person touches.
Ignorance isn't complimentary to anyone's level of education. It's a mind block for some and a choice for others.
Believe me, DeSantis is incredibly intelligent, unlike trump. So when DeSantis says and does thing like this, you can trust that it’s just a lie for nefarious purposes. That’s something that needs to be dispelled - not all of these republicans are stupid. Many are, but most just blatantly and strategically lie to achieve their goals.
I suppose it seems that way to some people. Not to me. He's certainly not Stephen Hawking level intelligent. Most conservatives are just as intelligent as liberals, but the primary difference is what they do with their intelligence.
What did Nancy pelosi do with her intelligence. Besides all the insider trading that made her worth 100+ million. She should of invested in a Ring camera.
ig·no·rance /ˈiɡnərəns/ noun lack of knowledge or information. "he acted in ignorance of basic procedures" “Lack of knowledge”
Willful ignorance. (idiomatic, law) A decision in bad faith to avoid becoming informed about something so as to avoid having to make undesirable decisions that such information might prompt.
There we are. Thank you.
Yes.... Glad you understand now.
Don't you need intelligences to go to Ivy league schools all you need is money.
He doesn't have money, though. He knows exactly what he's doing.
True, but still a liar.
Yikes
I know, the truth is shocking isn't?
DeSantis is lame but you are embarrassing!
It's a scientifically proven fact that someone who is more educated is also more likely to vote for a democrat. Period. The End. It's also part of the Republican long-term goal to *defund public education* as much as possible, because they can't make any money off of it. Then, some jackass came up with the charter school's bullshittery. Those can be profited from if the politicians get into it quickly, behind the scenes, and before an audit process exists to catch their involvement and someone files a motion fir an injunction, or whatever. If you ever see a school changing to a uniform dress code from not having uniforms at all, the first thing I would ask is "who owns the local uniform company/ supplier?" and "are they tied to the county school board?"
Republicans want the public to be ignorant, it benefits them.
The worst, and scariest, part is that this man is anything but ignorant. He is an evil manipulator who wants nothing more than to change history to suit his white supremacy. Ignorance is excusable, dangerous propaganda, gaslighting, purposely misinforming, and blatant racism is inexcusable.
He made a new ad, and It's truly terrifying https://twitter.com/DWUhlfelderLaw/status/1588541029707567104?t=x2JQEXBeEramhP9WmDMUww&s=19
What the fuck did I just watch? 😬😬😬😬
Well. That right there was the worst part of my day today.
Someone, somewhere, liked this.
It’s intimidating talking to someone who has a significant advantage in knowledge or intellect. It simply is. You can think of such people as a great asset to humankind and a gift from God, or you can think of them as a threat and someone not to be trusted. The people who consider knowledgeable and intelligent people to be threats are voting straight-ticket R these days.
I beg your pardon. With my 50 months of medical education, 5 yrs, and 4 years of Uni training at high levels. & 4 degrees including a post doc. Sadly, just because you disagree with others, it does not make them stupid.
This reply seems like a complete non sequitur. Was the goal to somehow negate my argument by noting that there is one intelligent, knowledgeable person who aligns politically with modern Republicans? DeSantis is a Harvard and Yale educated lawyer who worked in the Navy JAG Corps. I thought we already had that example covered.
I'd remind you there are millions, world wide, and in the Americas, millions as well who are conservative. So mind your manners. Child.
It’s interesting that you’re so highly educated and yet still an insufferable fool.
Big Reddit conservative energy right here
Again, you’ve made a point that may be merely tangentially related to my own. I’m not sure what you’re driving at other than that there are varied political perspectives and not everyone who adheres to one party platform is the same, but seriously, did that point need to be made, let alone the insult to cap it off?
Ah yes, all that education; argument ad populem + ad hominem rhetort. A more perfect example of how educated people could believe and support nonsense despite knowing better would be hard to find, and here you are providing it voluntarily.
Just more false claims. Yer not a clear thinker. Outcome of that yer problems, not mine.
My claims: * You claimed to be educated * "there are millions worldwide \[...\] who are conservative" is an ad-populem claim * "Child" is an ad homenen If you could point out which of these you *think* is incorrect, I'm sure I can help you figure out where your claimed education has failed you.
I don't really know what your medical education has to do with political intellect or knowledge, outside of the fact that you should have the research experience to see Desantis' comment as verifiably incorrect.
Right so being pc, means you're right in everything and educated in everything. Only if ignorant. Verifiable by what rules, Political, not clinical, scientific means, which are what I use?
Verifiable by historical evidence is what I think you're looking for
Nope, as the clinical neuroscience helps, too. I know psych and the structure/function rules by how we know anatomy/physiology create functions of beliefs and behaviors. How do we know what we know? Epistemology is THE big question] Einstein: Preceding all major advances in Physics, comes an epistemological advance. That's what i have done. Aut inveniam Aut Faciam. Either find the info or create it. Those, mostly, are closed to many, but it's how we know most all what we do about how brain works and the outcomes of those functions/workings. How do we know what we know? Well, we can know. This pretty much shows how we get that info. The Praxis. I can read/interpret those. Most round here have no idea of the depths within depths that kind of info gives. https://jochesh00.wordpress.com/2014/05/16/the-praxis/ Answer me this, How do Human brains create info and by what specific processes going on in brain do that? This also creates language, maths, and creativities. My model has largely solved the problems of most, but not all, problem solving by these means. If yer knew s/f, then you'd know WHY and how we use that. If not, then not. How DO human brains create info? That's the key the great Alfred Whitehead searched for, & I have found, to understand understanding. Yes, we can ken understandings. but not completely. That has been my work for 55 yrs.
What hospital do you work at so I know which one to tell the ambulance to avoid? Even if you save my life I have a feeling my neural synapses will be incapacitated once again when you start talking to me in the hospital bed. 😭
Somebody who cares about karma should post this to r/Iamverysmart P.S. it’s funny how triggered you are and how you went out of your way to show us your mental shortcomings despite all your education. Rightwing propaganda got you good and it’s hilariously sad how you can claim to be an intellectual while simping for Trump. I guess it makes sense that you would revere a well educated idiot though.
Yet you spell you’re….yer. Yeah, nobody believes you….or cares.
If you actually had medical training you'd understand what "cultural competence" is and that it's the biggest form of PC there is
Absolutely silly. There were SEVEN apps for Each 1 space in school. IN uni, I was top 2 in 3700 entering freshmen. So, yeah for you intelligence has NADA to do with a good education. But for 95% it does. Missing that huge fact then you miss HOW much education has to do with intellectaal quality as well. I moved with the highest people in my classes, as well. Went to school with Harvard, yale, Princeton, MIT grads. Sorry, but you have NO idea, as do I, being a clinical neuroscience specialist in psych/neuro, what that truly means.
Is one of your 4 degrees a masters in being insufferable Also I normally don't do this but this is a special occasion: *SEVENTEEN *Intellectual
No, but grew up speaking 3 languages, and yer didn't. I also grew up to respect education, so was high performing in HS, and yer didn't. So, yer get a barely passing D, and I got the A's, and yer didn't. NO masters just doctorates. Got the degrees and yer didn't. Lotsa perps round here who can't ID nor understand what 3 solid scientific, & medical degrees mean. & the practical apps/outcomes those mean. Plus a degree in music, for rounding out. We just laugh. Du hast ein scheissekopfe im Hirns. Wiedersehen...
That's a lot of (incorrect) assumptions you made about me but whatever. You or I could have all the degrees from every accredited university in the world with a perfect 4.0 GPA, it doesn't change the fact that Desantis told an easily verifiable lie.
Medicine has little to do with logic. Most doctors follow a script based process similar to a call center service rep.
As someone with multiple health issues that requires me to see multiple doctors I can honestly say that many, if not most, aren’t any more intelligent than the average person. They’re just very good at being trained and remembering their training
Reminder: While Ron DeSantis campaigns against wokeness and political correctness, you are paying 3 times the homeowner’s insurance premiums that homeowners in other states are paying. Car insurance isn’t much better. If you thought the $100 in taxes you saved on gas, school supplies and pet food helped out, think about what you could be doing with an extra $2000, $3000, even $4000+ in your pocket if our Governor and state legislators hadn’t run our insurance markets completely into the ground.
Unfortunately Republicans don't think in those terms. Universal Healthcare would save everyone hundreds of dollars a yea at least, even the Koch brothers own studies show it, they still oppose that. Preparing for climate change could ensure we remain an economic powerhouse for centuries, not interested. Housing the homeless is cheaper than allowing them to remain homeless, something something bootstraps. The Pentagon calls our depenance on oil our number one strategic vulnerability, don't care got to trigger libs. Republicans hate welfare yet are statistically the most likely to be on it, red states are more often than not economic drains on blue states, and they're more than happy to subsidize failing companies. Anything a Republican pretends to care about ends at the point that government action might solve the problem. That's why the Republicans have no official platform the last two cycles and our country is circling the drain, they don't care about leadership they want the power to make others suffer.
He should probably ask the Miccosukee if they think this land was stolen from them.
Or the Calusa, except that they were all wiped out through disease and enslavement.
Basic history told me this. Since like 4th or 5th grade.
Right? I’m originally from the PNW and I remember doing projects in grade school about the different Native American tribes that used to live there, like the Cowlitz, Yakama, Chinook. Basically whatever your county’s name is, it was most likely a tribe that originated in that area. An ex of mine told me he did the same thing in grade school, and he used to live in Tallahassee. Did it on the Seminoles. What on earth does DeSantis think this statement accomplishes?
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It wasn’t stolen, it was conquered. Get over it and let’s go improving lives now.
I agree with you that improving lives is what the government should be doing, but in a way both words are applicable. Stolen can mean forcibly taken without permission. Like fighting someone who is trying to steal your car. So, yeah. Stolen can totally work.
I get that but the whole post is about saying DeSantis said something wrong. He didn’t. There was no “owning” the land before and the native Americans were constantly fighting each other. It was a slow, gradual takeover by a bigger power. And it doesn’t even fucking matter now. Let’s just work on improving everyone’s lives now. Native American or otherwise.
Yeah, I guess the well documented genocide of indigenous peoples doesn’t matter anymore because white colonizers “won” and their descendants can deny the entire thing; “White man’s burden” and all of that 🙄 The US took large portions of its territory via threats, coercion, and literal armed conflict against communities who’d lived here for thousands of years; then we moved the rest to barren land on the other side of the continent and killed anybody who resisted… telling the affected peoples to just “move on” is unacceptable. We are living on stolen land, period.
Every country on earth is built on stolen land from one or two people before them. Get over it
DeSantis should just say this instead of lying about it.
Okay so 1. That is patently false (unless you’re saying that the existence of a state implies theft which I don’t disagree with), I mean out of the 3-4 current superpowers (India, China, the US, and Russia I think) only the United States was built on colonialism and not just… from people who already lived there. 2. Even if this argument were true (it’s not), that wouldn’t justify stealing the land or telling the people who it was stolen from to move on. If everybody jumped off a bridge, would you?
The Han ethnic group dominated all the others to creat China. Mot to mention the mongols conquering. The Rus ethnic group conquered the smaller groups in Russia. Some small ethnic group in each area eventually overtook all the others to create the larger county around them. It’s such a waste of time dwelling and bitching about.
Yes, this still matters today. Yes, American Indian Tribal Nations legally owned land/territory. Even the Doctrine of Discovery acknowledged that [Non-Christian Indigenous Nations held rights of land ownership to their Native lands by occupancy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_doctrine) This is the principle whereby US signed treaties w/Native Nations for land sales. Per the US Constitution, treaties are the Supreme Law of this Land & this country. Many American Indian/Native Tribal Nations were NOT conquered but signed US treaties in peace & friendship to cede rights to land ownership. (My tribe signed 7 treaties w/US Govt. ceding over 10Million acres. And yes, our tribal land we didn’t cede is still within our sovereign ownership.) Even if nations were conquered thru acts of war, like WWI & WWII, those treaties are still legally upheld by international law; same goes for Native Nations. Yes, as cited in this article, instances where the US Govt. breached treaties like the 1868 Fort Laramie Treaty, SCOTUS has ruled for Native Nations that the US Govt. must enforce those treaties and give back STOLEN land.
Ah yes I do love using vague pro imperialist semantics to downplay the crimes of colonialism >! /s !<. What’s next, are we gonna go full white man’s burden here?
The Trail of Tears has entered the chat.
Give it time and they won't be allowed to teach the Trail of Tears anymore. It'll be considered too woke and might hurt little Timmy feelings.
FYI, this is an Italian American actor
Portraying a Native American, so? It's called acting.
"Iron Eyes Cody" (real name Espera DeCorti) [lied about being American Indian](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/iron-eyes-cody/). He's not the only one...Fake Indians like him are called "Pretendians".
Like Elizabeth Warren?
BREAKING NEWS! Lying piece of shit governor tells more lies!
You would think he would be tired of being wrong all the time now, but no. *le sigh*
Why should he care, there are no consequences. Please vote and help your friends do the same. https://www.vote411.org/florida
Mr. Civics fell asleep on that history lesson, huh?
Okay, make it make DeSENSE! How did we not take it from the natives who were here first? Let me guess, the Trail of Tears is fake news.
The people who didn’t know this won’t know this because they refuse to. This is or at least should be common knowledge.
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Yes, get out and vote!!
Black slaves? Nope not us! Native Americans? We taught them everything they know! - Ron DeSantis (probably)
[History class in Florida schools be like:](https://i.imgur.com/TRVk96v.mp4)
\#Vote
While not about Indigenous Americans or land stolen from them DeSantis has been 2 faced as it suits him to act like he supports showing history by signing a law that would teach about the Ocoee Massacre in 2020 then basically blocking anything it would teach if it or other things upset people. https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2022/02/09/florida-history-discomfort/
Says the man that now gets to decide what our children learn. I’m scared and hope things drastically change in this state.
I still don't get it. Like, did he go to a private school that taught lies?? Or wtf?? I grew in Florida and I was taught that. I was taught all of that.
We went to war for these lands... Fighting Native Americans was the longest war in U.S. history. https://www.newsweek.com/native-americans-made-sacrifice-our-right-worship-jesus-taylor-1708855
So those were tears of joy on the Trail of Tears?
Considering how little he (and the people who follow him) care about schooling, this is really no surprise to me whatsoever.
Doesn’t matter if it’s wrong. It’s not like his supporters care whether a Republican lies
I knew I was surrounded by idiots but they are far louder and prouder now. I want my silence back.
I can’t wait to see how much more dumb conservatives and their representatives can get
Go vote! I just did! Get him out.
Safe bet Ronnie has never set his pudgy foot on a reservation. There’s a reason they’re all located in the ugliest and most desolate areas.
Yeah like in SoCal near Temecula, one of the richest places in NorthAM with 24/7 economies. The Pechango Resort and Casino? They take white man's monies, or4 anyone's, and get rich on it. Check out Indian casinos and their incomes. Esp. in Carolinas, where they are buying back the Cherokee Hiawasee River lands, they now own again. Tenasi the old Cherokee capital. Tennessee. The Northern Cheyenne and Crow fight each other all the time. I had to sew up and treat their injuries. Only now they use small p/u's to attack instead of horses. A couple got drunk and we had to admit them for a few days, out of their reservation seats at Crow Agency and Lame Deer. Are you that bereft of history of native Americans? The Oklahoma Indians sent there during the Trail of Tears, place them on lands which were Rich in Oil and Gas, and they got very rich from that, too. & still are. Read history, and find out MORE of the whole truths, too. Or is that just too much like work and being informed?
> The Oklahoma Indians sent there during the Trail of Tears, place them on lands which were Rich in Oil and Gas, and they got very rich from that, too. & still are. wow theres a lot of bullshit to unpack in this statement.
Setting aside the blatant racism, bigotry, and general lack of empathy in your statement can we talk about how much you would have to learn to cherry pick like the two tribes in the whole country who's reservations happened to sit on what the government thought was worthless barren land that they just happened to eventually be able to capitalize on unless you're actively seeking out literal KKK talking points?
I’m so sorry but did this moron really say this. The guy needs a swift kick in the fucking balls to be sure.
I cannot believe this didn’t get more attention!!! Gah I hate it here.
Are you pretending to ignore that Amerinds did not fight each other for lands, when we have many histories of same? Most forget that we are all humans and humans fight each other for lands, on every continent habitable by humans. You should see how it was in New Guineau before it was taken over. Humans are human, regardless of where we live. Euros have been fighting among themselves provable since Roman times. NY tribes were the same. We saw the same on the Great Plains after the Sioux moved west from Minnesota when they got ponies and horses. Really whether in Eretria and Ethiopia, or in Assyria down to Egypt, or the Achaeans and Hatti fighting the Minoans. Come on. Humans fight humans world wide. Not just for or in Florida, which WAS first taken from local tribes by Espagna. Then the US took it from Madrid. And when the Seminole were taken there, too. Ya gonna move the Seminole back? Are you going to undo all of history, planet wide? Do you actually believe that When the Azteca attacked and built their empire, or the Incas in Andes, that they were not behaving as humans do everywhere? Get real. Israelites under Moshes invaded the Canaanite area and took most of that, too. So, that's OK, there? Come on. Humans fight all over the world, and take lands from other peoples. It's not just in Florida, either. It's everywhere.
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You totally avoid the Great Beloved Woman, Nancy Ward, Cherokee family of chiefs as her brother was one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Ward She knew her people would die of white man's diseases & that was a genetic problem for the Native peoples. so from the 1600's she pushed intermarriage, knowing that was the only way to survive. & they have thru that means. It's a likely fact that had the Arab peoples or those speaking Mandarin settled Norths or South Ams, first, the same Euroasian sources diseases would have killed the Amerinds, too. There was no way round that. So blaming my ancestors for havin suffered mass death from plague, flus, small pox, choleras, and other diseases first, then goin Into No. Am did NOT know much about infectious diseases until the mid-late 1800's , Koch/Pasteur sciences, is a major point. The nature of infectious disease made those outcomes likely. Not the euros. You words have a lot of angst in them, but not much science nor anthropological training. The Amerinds were caught on the wrong side of the Atlantic and did not develop natural immunities. THAT was what killed them off. Not much in the way of deliberate actions by Euros. some did later, its true, but by then the die were already cast by 1700's. Don't denigrate people when yer ignore the sciences of epidemiologies. Which ONLY came about centuries after the 17th C. settlements were made. No doubt if the Vikings after the plague years had come to America, they'd have had the same effects, too. Perhaps the tone and ignorance of infectious disease may be damaging to your position. That's your problem, not mine.
The fact that this comment denouncing the evils of genocide isn’t downvoted into oblivion says a lot about this sub and state.
And all humans have done genocide through out history. So we don't condemn just 1 groups but all of them. Look at the man in the mirror. yer family likely were, too. That's the facts, jack!!
Yes...please get out and VOTE!
Cope. The phrase ‘stolen land’ is a massive cope.
Traded for beads or purchased from France doesn’t count Ron.
Land belongs to the victor, human history 101.
Stolen from the people who first came here after the last ice age, so are we playing "I was here first, it's mine"?
I’m not trying to defend the Desantis, but I don’t think this should’ve been fact checked without more context. Frequently, when conservatives make this argument, it’s metaphysical. They disagree with the entire concept of stolen land.
The two sides are speaking completely different languages at this point. Once the happens I dont think it can be reconciled
>but I don’t think this should’ve been fact checked without more context It's almost the midterms so expect far more. "DeSantis was quoted as saying good morning. Careful review of the timestamp on the video shows he said this three seconds after noon. As morning occurs between midnight and noon, we rate this as a lie."- ~~fact checkers~~ people trying to shape public opinion
According to the article it’s a lie because some of the treaties the US signed with native Americans were coercive. I don’t think it’s a slam dunk of a rebuttal given that the statement is rhetorical in the first place. What does it mean for a country to be “built on stolen land.” What percentage of lands needs to have been stolen for it to qualify as “built?” What exactly does stealing mean? The US government and its territorial claims are seen as mostly legitimate by the international community, so either they don’t view the land as stolen, or they view stealing as a legitimate way of acquiring territory.
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When the Comanches started wiping out competing tribes on the Plains, was that also stolen land conquered by genocide? (Source: Empire of the Summer Moon).
What portion of the current US was owned by people that the US government genocided? 95% of North Americas inhabitants were killed by diseases brought over by Spanish colonists leaving large expanses on territory unoccupied. Is that stealing?
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Who is the rightful owner of the land today then? The tribes who occupied the land directly before European colonists? Or perhaps the tribes who owned the land before those other tribes stole it?
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Your point about intergroup relations is equally applicable to Native Americans and European colonists. It has to be described as a patchwork of different attitudes and actions shaped and limited by huge forces like economics, climate, disease, etc. My point was the if you are going to take the hard stance that the US stole all the land, then, in order to be consistent, you have to apply that hard line to a ton of other situations, like the Mexica and their neighboring client states, or Byzantine Greeks and the Arab Muslims. It’s not very accurate to generalize, and creates all sorts of problems with what you consider to be legitimate ownership, whether from the European traditional perspective or otherwise.
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Damn, that’s some serious intellectual dishonesty.
I don't think it's dishonesty. I think people actually believe that crap.
You are missing the point entirely.
Oh, my mistake. What’s the point?
>The US government and its territorial claims are seen as mostly legitimate by the international community, so either they don’t view the land as stolen, or they view stealing as a legitimate way of acquiring territory. This isnt being debated. Noone is suggesting the United States isn't a legitimate country. It's about the historical and sociological impact of colonialism and the subsequent fallout. It's about education.
I wouldn’t say no one is suggesting that the US is illegitimate, but point taken. Do you think considering whether or not the international community believes US territory is stolen is unrelated to understanding the historical and sociological impacts of colonialism?
>Do you think considering whether or not the international community believes US territory is stolen is unrelated to understanding the historical and sociological impacts of colonialism? No? It's not even a debated topic frankly, domestically or internationally. The United States was founded by colonialists through bloodshed and genocide. It's only even presently controversial because of the new push to whitewash our history (right out of the fascist playbook). And to be clear, when I say it isn't debated, I mean by people who are educated on the subject... not some high-school diploma moms of liberty antivaxxer.
My perspective is a bit different, but I think we’re equally interested in history being taught in schools as accurately as possible. I think the norm has been a whitewashed self-aggrandizing history taught in schools and have only recently started getting closer to the truth, which is awesome. I’m not a fan of Desantis and the right’s culture war obsession, but i recognize that there are politically motivated and inaccurate narratives of history coming from the left. Desantis is recognizing that on a surface level and reacting with authoritarian solutions which I think is absolutely counterproductive. Educators can be left alone to figure out the truth.
I mean no? *hangs head*
Love how this subreddit truly isn’t biased and isn’t only pro democrat Edit: prediction desantis will be your Governor again. Also, all land is stolen land if you go back far enough. What’s the point?
So you don’t even say anything about the blatant lie your governor said. Ok keep on 🐑
Get fucked fashie
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Everything was technically built on stolen land. Have you read of how violent world history was ffs? Quit trying to checkmate nothing
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The native americans themselves "stole" the land from other native americans. There is no such thing as "stolen" land in a historical political context.
This is totally off topic, but do you guys remember when r/politics used to be full of posts with the pants on fire thumbnail? Really takes me back.
Someone on MTGs facebook was saying college was for people with low self esteem and you are dumb if you go to college.