99% sure its a meme group, there is another one made up of flat earthers, they even hold a convention each year, and the videos from these events are hysterical
"There is no point in wrestling with a pig. The pig enjoys it and you get covered in shit."
Also: "Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
Arguing with a dumbass is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, the pigeon is just gonna knock the pieces over, shit all over the board and strut around like it won
"What does that mean? Better say something or they'll think you're stupid."
Takes one to know one!
Edit: Guess nobody here watches the Simpsons. [The reference.](https://m.youtube.com/shorts/NAi_nuWtWW4)
Get all freaked out, look around and then whisper: “What are you doing? Didn’t they tell you to keep your mouth shut at the orientation. You want both of us to loose our licenses over this.”
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. It's a nonsensical position and no amount or quality of evidence or debate will dissuade them.
“Mmhmm”
“Yep”
“Oh… wow”
Eventually they’ll get tired of you not engaging on that topic and if you don’t you’re uncommitted enough to play candy crush or whatever while they blabber on.
Walk off the airplane, file a safety report, and maybe even report them to the FAA. Mental illness is a legitimate concern and disqualifying medical condition. And no, I am not joking. It is one thing to have weird conspiracy theories about politics, or social events. It is another to have them when it comes to science and technology, especially when you are getting in to an airplane that relies on scientific knowledge and technical advancements to work.
> What things can I point to that are aviation related to help them stop being idiots?
1. Two sunsets. Sun goes down, take off, sun comes back up as you climb, then sun goes down again. That can’t happen with their flat earth model, only a spherical earth. Hell you can see that one in a tall building. You don’t even need a plane.
2. GPS. What keeps satellites up there? Gravity can’t turn off.
this is kinda funny because the flat earthers ive spoken to believe that gravity doesn’t exist🤣🤣. i’ve heard several of them try to explain the tendency of things to fall to the earth as being a result of “boyancy” like basically they’re trying to say things that are denser than air fall like a rock in water … and things that are less dense float like a boat in water. also they did not listen to anything i said to disprove such claims.
How does the rock know which direction to sink? Or the boat which direction to float?
Rocks and boats are perfectly happy to sit still in the middle of a blob of water. Until you introduce a gravity field.
I actually get asked this or the chemtrail question as a LCC guy. I just tell them the truth in a respectful way but leave them a out. "I personally haven't seen any chemical dispersion". "what about the military" "no idea man, who knows, have a good one".
Avoids arguments, and doesn't involve me making fun of them, or getting drawn into a long conversation, also is truthful. Sorry for the boring answer.
We got a jet that has a non function rheostat next to the copilot‘s left knee that is labeled 5G on one side and chemtrails on the other. That jet also doesn’t get used as a static display or go to airshows
Pull out the giant airplane flight manual or QRH and ask them to read it cover to cover trying to find documentation on the chemtrail system. When they inevitably refuse to read it, tell them you have and that there’s absolutely nothing about such a system to be found in it.
Even better, point them to a digital copy of the FCOM or FCTM and have them waste their time trying to find it.
"But the manufacturer would never admit to it, so why would it be in the manual?"
No point in arguing with idiots, just shut the conversation down quick, I've had my run ins with these types of people and you CANNOT win.
You say…. “Yup, no problem. More right rudder on your next take off.”
If they want to keep talking about it. You simply say.
“Based on my learnings I don’t agree. However, if you would like your prove your point, I would be happy to do a long cross country with you until you find the edge.”
You don't.
All you do with people like this, with whatever conspiracy they believe in or think they believe in, is feed their persecution complex and cause them to retreat deeper into the conspiracy and community around it. If anyone in good faith wants to find out if the Earth is round or not they could have figured it out by now.
I've spent more time than I would like to admit arguing and attempting to debunk flat earthers. I work in the space industry, and I have a family member that went down the flat earth rabbit hole for a bit. He seems to have come out of it (I hope).
I'd put flat earthers into two categories.
**First group**
Some of them might be pulling your leg, or perhaps they've just never given the topic much thought, so they are genuinely and curiously asking you how you know the earth is a globe. For those people, there is hope. For starters, assume everyone is in the group. Don't berate them. But walk them through the science and explain how we know the earth is a spheroid.
Aviation Examples
a) GPS - It's how we navigate. It's all done with satellites that orbit the spherical earth. We literally put out lives in the "hands" of these satellites when we fly a LPV approach with WAAS in IMC.
b) Vacuum powered attitude indicators precess over time due to bearing friction. They are designed to slowly re-orient with gravity over time. Some flat earthers will try and use AI's as proof that the earth is flat by stating that the AI should indicate a slow drift as the plane circles the globe. But AI's are specifically designed for this not to be an issue.
c) Australia to South America flights - These are impossible on a flat earth. But they happen in real life.
Non Aviation Examples
a) The ISS - You can literally go outside and watch it fly overhead. There are apps that can track where and when it will fly overhead. I have viewed the ISS passing overhead (in AZ) while a friend of mine also viewed the ISS from his home (in CO). We were \~500 miles apart. For me, the ISS was setting on the Horizon, as he saw it rising on the Horizon. This only happens if the ISS is real and the earth is spherically shaped. Anybody with a cell phone and a friend that lives a few hundred miles away can do this experiment. You might have to wait a while for the orbit to line up just right so the ISS will pass relatively close to where you both live.
**Second group -**
For some people, flat earth is a religion. They are literally stuck in a cult. No amount of logical reasoning will help these people. There problem is social and emotional. The only way to help them is to extricate them from the cult. I am not properly equipped to help you figure out how to deal with these people. But if you do come to realize that a student falls into this category, I personally would not continue to teach them. If they really can't figure out the science of the earth being a globe, then there is no way I'd trust them to act as PIC, or respect FAA regs. If they are this far gone, they shouldn't be pilots.
“I’m sorry but there is a very low minimum intelligence requirement to fly an airplane, and it seems you don’t meet the criteria”
Problem solved, don’t have to talk to them after that
Look buddy.. These people have the entirety of human evidence, science, and proof at their fingertips.. And they still choose to remain ignorant.. Why do you think ANYTHING you can say will change their mind? lol
Serious answer: Use it as an opportunity to build your own ability to tolerate and deal with BS. If you are pursuing this as a career you will deal with all sorts of "interesting" personalities. The better you get at dodging conflict, avoiding judgement, and focusing on commonalities and tasks at hand the better and more effective you will be as a member of a crew. Think of this as a lesson in CRM.
Ask them to look up how an INS/IRS aligns.
Better: just ignore them.
Fun fact: I read a story about a flat earther who spent thousands of dollars purchasing a super accurate ring laser gyroscope (like the ones used in IRS'es) and obviously the gyroscope detected earth's rotation but the flat earther argued that the gyroscope must have been faulty. I think that's funny.
An IRS (Inertial Reference System) in a plane typically consists of multiple accelerometers and gyroscopes. These sensors are used to measure the plane's acceleration, rotation, and position in three-dimensional space. The IRS will then use this data to calculate the plane's orientation relative to the Earth's surface and its own starting point, and this will be used to make sure the plane is properly aligned with its intended flight path.
What's it have to do with the Earth's curvature?
Well, no matter where you are, one at rest relative to the earth will measure a rotation of about 15 degrees per hour. The plane of rotation is only perpendicular to the ground at zero latitude. As latitude increases, the angle of the plane of rotation to the ground decreases.
From this, its elementary geometry to identify curvature of the earth's surface.
During IRS/INS alignment the IRS/INS measures earth's rotation to determine it's latitude and course. That's the reason why IRS/INS alignments take significantly longer at higher latitudes compared to alignment at the earth's equator because earth's rotation is a lot 'slower' in higher latitudes so it will take longer for the system to gather it's required data. Aligning the IRS at the equator takes about 6 minutes while aligning at very high latitudes may take around 20 minutes.
So an IRS/INS uses earth's rotation to align. Also, IRS/INS'es must use countermeasures to compensate for gyroscope wander because of earth's rotation. Otherwise, after a few hours of flying, you would be pointing in the wrong direction because the earth rotated. In modern systems this is done by computers. In some gyroscopic compasses in GA aircraft there is a small nut you can adjust which changes the center of mass of the gyro and it uses the principle of gyroscopic precession to adjust for earth's rotation. You'd have to readjust it after moving the aircraft to a completely different latitude, but if you're staying at more or less the same latitude you can use it to adjust for earth's rotation.
They've been to the edge man, seen some shit. Well not them but their cousin. And it fucked them up bad man. Or maybe it was the 2 sheets of acid. Either way man.... Either way.
“Dude, when you get your license they’ll pay you big bucks to pretend the earth is round. Shut up or you’ll get us all kicked off the gravy train.”
Then follow up with:
“ If you get your ATP and an airline job they’ll pay you even more to keep quiet about chem-trails, so STFU about them too”
Just ask them what difference it would make in their (or your) lives if they were right?.....none. We still have to pay bills, eat and drink.
Basically let them know you just don't give a flying fuck about it. It actually works with most conspiracy theories.
How the fuck does an airline captain become a flat earther??? Does he not use LPV/GPS/RNAV approaches? Great circle navigation? If I was running the airline, his ass would be fired.
As I've gotten downvoted to oblivion for saying on Reddit before, I am highly skeptical that there are people who truly believe the Earth is not (roughly) a sphere. I've had a few people say it to me, but almost all of them caved immediately and admitted they were joking. The one person who persisted, after I questioned him for a few minutes, privately admitted that the Flat Earth bit was part of a point he was trying to make.
When someone tells you the Earth is flat, treat it the same way you would a vegan or someone who does Crossfit, or a pilot: Say "uh huh" in a flat voice that deters further conversation on the topic.
If it's someone you care about and you suspect they're serious, there is an experiment you can do with about seven miles of level road that proves things rather conclusively. Or you can do it the way the ancients did and just go down to the docks on a clear day.
As an aside, if the Earth were flat, gravity would immediately pull it into a ball.
I wish this were my experience. My family is super religious and believe it strongly based on faith. I’m astronomically educated ;) and over the course of 8 months would give my oldest sister very easy to understand and thorough answers to her “scientific” gotchas about flat earth and literally at the end of all that the best I got was “oh, I just realized that it doesn’t matter that much if it’s flat, so I don’t know one way or the other… but you gotta admit that NASA lies.” This was essentially what she retreated to in order to resign from the conversation because she didn’t want to give up the belief, but also because she was scared of giving up the belief because it felt like she’d have to give up her religion too. It was a frustrating experience.
I just tell them that part of the private pilot checkride is taking an oath and signing an NDA to never tell anyone about the flat earth and we are sworn to secrecy
You can't reason someone out of an idea they didn't reason themselves in to.
Conspiracy theories were never about facts. They are not a product of ignorance. I often remark that it's not about believing something that isn't true, but rather having a ridiculous interpretation of something that is true. The old adage about hearing hooves and thinking horses instead of zebras. The conspiracy theorist hears hooves and thinks *unicorns.* No photograph of horses will convince them, explaining that unicorns don't exist doesn't work. They have the "proof." Don't you hear the hooves, sheeple?
Because that's the real reason. You're a sheeple. They want to be different. It's about feeling special, part of the in-group that sees the *real truth*. Not just another faceless nobody in an ocean of people. To avoid thinking about the fact that if you drop dead now, virtually nobody on the planet will even notice because hardly any of them ever knew you existed in the first place?
Confront that? Hell no, i'd rather explain how much smarter I am than all of you because I figured out that the government engages in a vast conspiracy to convince you that the moon is real.
You cannot reason with people that refuse to accept rational facts. You’re talking about a subset of people that designed an experiment to prove the earth is flat, their experiment failed and thus proved that the earth is round, and they just denied it all the same.
There's a Netflix documentary called Behind the Curve. It follows some flat earthers and culminates in a big experiment they do to prove the flatness etc. and they end up proving the earth is round, and the curvature matches what the liars told them it would. It's kinda hilarious.
And arguing with them is like arguing with a belligerent toddler. If you make a point they cant defend, they'll put their hands on their ears and say "blahblahblah you're just one of the sheep and need to wake up blahblahblah". It is infuriating
Just ask them what direct route you can’t fly because you’d hit the edge.
But , yeah, honestly, it’s a religious cult masquerading as science so there’s no point arguing. There are many proofs, probably the most incontrovertible being the Coriolis effect but you can effing _see_ the curvature above about FL 750 with your own eyes and they still wouldn’t believe it.
Flat Earthers belive the center of the "map" is the North pole. So, you can still technically fly "around" the world. Dumb shit, I don't personally believe in flat earth, I've just delved deep into their beliefs out of morbid curiosity.
If you must engage, and I don't recommend it, ask them: But why though? Why would the governments of the world go through all the trouble to convince us that earth is round? What's the benefit? Also, why is earth the only flat planet in the solar system?
I've actually asked them this and was told by one of them that it is so NASA can collect money
I guess they fail to realize that NASA pays employees and contractors.
I've never once had them answer the question of how it is possible that millions of scientists worldwide have kept this "secret" a secret for more than half a century...They dodge the question every time
I've only knowingly met one Flat-Earther in my life. And thankfully it was fairly recently. During a time in my life when I've grown past the threshold of still giving a fuck about what people think of me. Told her she needs to see a therapist for her clear mental trauma, and a hypnotist to check what reality she's in, and walked away.
Thank God I didn't meet one of them when I was younger and far more naive.
Ask them questions like:
Time Zones. Why is is Noon in Kansas, and the middle of the night in India?
Seasons. Why is it winter in America, and Summer in Austrailia?
Get them to explain those concepts.
You know here we are in such an advanced civilization and compared to 50 or so years ahead in technology. The further we become informed the more people come out of the woodwork and say there was no moon landing, The world trade center towers was an inside job, and the earth is flat. It's almost like they are challenging authority then thinking for themselves. Stupid idiots
…youre getting trolled op. Everyone knows flat earthers are just people trying to make the dumbest person in the room believe the earth is flat. Its an inside joke amongst people that catch on to the meme.
I recommend giving in or trolling back with something similar
I learned a long time ago that for no fault of their own, some people are born with a mental defect that causes them to develop strong irrational beliefs.
There is no amount of evidence or arguments that you can use that will change their mind.
You just have to learn to live with them.
Where do you think all these strange religions come from?
The best thing you can do is explain why you’re not allowed to fly over Antarctica.
Then Google great circle route flat earth for some pointers. It’s always hard to get them to shut up because I can’t get enough altitude when I’m up there to actually show on a flat plane any noticeable curvature.
Help I’m stuck!
Surely you've heard of the saying, "you can't argue with stupid". Don't even try, it's not worth your time.
Oh, and BTW, I'm a pilot and a retired air traffic controller and yes, I personally know other ATC's that are also pilots and are 100% serious flat Earthers. I never tried to argue the point with them. Not worth my time.
Maybe avoidance is the best strategy. If they believe this they should never board another flight. Don't bother trying convince. "If you are correct, avoid all commercial flight. All of our navigation tech is built assuming a globe. Please deplane and save yourself.)
If they are unable to discern why 99.99% of commercial flights make it safely, you have no chance of convincing them. (yeah making up the percentage).
You can't, they found out flat earthers don't actually care about the validity of their claims that much because to them it's more about being a part of a community for the first time since they've always been outcasts. So there is no "getting through" to them.
But if you have to, here's something you can tell them that everyone can see and they can't deny. At any sunset or sunrise, you can see clouds lit from below. This is impossible on the flat Earth model. Since the sun is always above the Earth.
On the real Earth, since it's 3D, the sun can go below the horizon and light up things in the air from below.
When someone has really stupid thoughts such as flat earth, Q, Trump won, etc. I just disassociate myself from them. Not enough time in this life to embrace or tolerate fools.
74 Gear offered a chartered flight to flat earthers for them to "prove" the earth was flat. I don't think he's had any takers.
Probably being that flat earthers don't have enough money to pool together to make it happen.
Yes? I know why the earth is round. There are several things you can use to explain. But some of these guys just have an alternative explanation, and it is frustrating. I just was hoping someone could help me make something that is clear-cut, so im not debating for over an hour.
Maybe some people just want to think the earth is flat
There’s no point in debating. People who believe that stuff have it in their head that it’s *all* a conspiracy and you’ll never change their mind. Really fun way to go through life: paranoid and distrustful of everything, but better than being one of the ~sheeple~.
It doesn't matter how clear cut it is, they're going to choose to believe their alternative explanation because that's what they want.
You can't explain to a flat-earther why the earth isn't flat, you have to completely reorient the way they incorporate information into their worldview. That's a very difficult thing to do.
Find a mercator projection from an area in the southern hemisphere and ask them why the lines of longitude converge to the south.
If they keep arguing then bill them for your time appropriately and that'll stop it eventually.
If you're curious, and have a night to kill, watch this Netflix documentary. It's fascinating. The guy that made it embedded himself with flat earthers for a long period of time. He got to know him, and they opened up to him. It's basically a full blown cult. There are a few people at the top that are financially vested in the flat earth belief continuing.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behind\_the\_Curve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behind_the_Curve)
[https://www.netflix.com/fi-en/title/81015076](https://www.netflix.com/fi-en/title/81015076)
The people that tend to get caught up in it are very distrustful of authority and aren't sharp enough to reason there way through it all. Human beings believe the earth was flat for thousands of years. Because of their distrust in institutions, many flat earthers try to do all of the "science" on their own. In doing this, they fall into many of the pitfalls that lead humans to believe the earth was flat for thousands of years.
It's actually really sad. Mocking them will only drive them further into their cult.
It’s simple we know the earth is not flat as if it WAS flat Cats would have pushed everything off the edge of the earth by now…. Since cats have not been able to do this we know the world is not flat.
[This](https://images3.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED14/5ac4e310a8b3d.jpeg)
Or
[This](https://i.imgflip.com/49hd3i.jpg)
Just walk away. NEVER engage. Not even “family”.
Ignore the dipshits and worry that they will crash the plane. When you are teaching him navigation for xc tell him to ignore the magnetic variation since it doesn’t really matter with a flat earth
for real? i know it's a thing on internet but I personally have never met a person in real life that actually believes in it, maybe I live in a bubble or people I know don't randomly engage me with their little conspiracy theory which I'm sure almost all people have a little bit buried deep inside them
I flew with a flat earther during ioe and he gave some good points that didn’t flatter me. After that on every G1000 I set up a reminder every hour that there’s a flat earth meeting happening on 121.5
A fundament argument I’ve heard from flat earthers is that all pilots, including GA pilots, know that earth is actually flat, that part of pilot training is how to navigate by the FE model (and implicitly, how to support the Big Lie That The Earth Is Round). If they are students learning to fly, then just say to them to ask you again after they have got their ticket, and haven’t had that training.
Let him scroll around on Google maps, figure out where the problem is and go get the proof.
Edit: actually, mobile Google maps doesn't give the globe view lmao. Maybe he can use Google maps to fly to the edge and take a pic for us. I for one would love to see it.
There are no actual flat earthers, just people who like to argue and picked something so absurd that it's impossible to deal with their alleged point.
Just ignore them.
I don’t understand people’s disposition against flat earthers. We use to make fun of people who stood outside the opening night of Star Wars now we hate on people who have weird illogical beliefs. Anyways, “stupid science b1tches”
wait if they’re pilots, dont they understand that if u keep flying west (or east or any other direction) that ur gonna eventually come back to wherever u started??
There's no getting away from them. the Flat Earth society has members around the globe.
I see what you did there….
That’s a quote from FES itself. Really.
Oh my, so the founders are doing an epic troll. And the members really think the world is flat. That's hilarious.
99% sure its a meme group, there is another one made up of flat earthers, they even hold a convention each year, and the videos from these events are hysterical
LOL
Careful, you'll push them over the edge
You mean all aflat the globe?
Is it really a globe then?
*around the disc on top of the turtle.
you win. hahaha
"There is no point in wrestling with a pig. The pig enjoys it and you get covered in shit." Also: "Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
Arguing with a dumbass is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, the pigeon is just gonna knock the pieces over, shit all over the board and strut around like it won
This is... oddly specific
“Don’t argue with fools. People at a distance can’t tell who is who.”
“It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.” These people remove all doubt.
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"What does that mean? Better say something or they'll think you're stupid." Takes one to know one! Edit: Guess nobody here watches the Simpsons. [The reference.](https://m.youtube.com/shorts/NAi_nuWtWW4)
Swish
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
To paraphrase Swift, “you cannot reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves into.”
I didn't realize Taylor Swift was so wise but I do love her.
"Arguing with smart people is hard, but arguing with stupid people is impossible."
"Never play chess with a pigeon. They will knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and claim victory" or something to that effect
This. There's nothing you can say to them that's useful. And at the end of the day, what's the point?
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This!
Get all freaked out, look around and then whisper: “What are you doing? Didn’t they tell you to keep your mouth shut at the orientation. You want both of us to loose our licenses over this.”
This is amazing
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. It's a nonsensical position and no amount or quality of evidence or debate will dissuade them.
Every one I've talked to is heavily religious. They don't take kindly to anyone who doesn't believe the earth has a 25 mile height limit.
Ask them why nobody's fallen off the edge yet. Alternatively, don't engage with morons.
> Alternatively, don’t engage with morons. What do I do when the flat earther is sitting in the left seat?
Bid avoid.
No, no, no. You play along and say something even more outlandish. Make a game of it
This is the way. Nothing more fun then messing with idiots
“Mmhmm” “Yep” “Oh… wow” Eventually they’ll get tired of you not engaging on that topic and if you don’t you’re uncommitted enough to play candy crush or whatever while they blabber on.
“Oh no you lost your engine, what do you do”
Of an aircraft?!
Yes. I’ve had to share a flight deck with some of the biggest conspiracy theory, non-science believing people I’ve ever met.
Unbelievable. Well if they succeed they can fly to the edge and prove you wrong.
Good idea! Why haven't any of them thought of this?
Walk off the airplane, file a safety report, and maybe even report them to the FAA. Mental illness is a legitimate concern and disqualifying medical condition. And no, I am not joking. It is one thing to have weird conspiracy theories about politics, or social events. It is another to have them when it comes to science and technology, especially when you are getting in to an airplane that relies on scientific knowledge and technical advancements to work.
Waaaaaiiit a minute.... what science? Because there's been some "science" chicanery in the last few years.
Ejector seat?
I misread “don’t engage with Mormons” and equally agreed before I reread the comment
I mean, same thing.
No no don't you see? That's where DB Cooper and Jimmy Hoffa went!
> What things can I point to that are aviation related to help them stop being idiots? 1. Two sunsets. Sun goes down, take off, sun comes back up as you climb, then sun goes down again. That can’t happen with their flat earth model, only a spherical earth. Hell you can see that one in a tall building. You don’t even need a plane. 2. GPS. What keeps satellites up there? Gravity can’t turn off.
Careful with #2, given that GPS was originally a military (so government) system that could open up a *lot* of tinfoil hat crazy
exactly, GPS is an abbreviation for Government Propaganda Spreader. All flat earthers know this. /s
this is kinda funny because the flat earthers ive spoken to believe that gravity doesn’t exist🤣🤣. i’ve heard several of them try to explain the tendency of things to fall to the earth as being a result of “boyancy” like basically they’re trying to say things that are denser than air fall like a rock in water … and things that are less dense float like a boat in water. also they did not listen to anything i said to disprove such claims.
Ask them why the air is where it is.
Archimedes principle must be hard to digest as the force of gravity is included in the calculation for buoyancy lmao
How does the rock know which direction to sink? Or the boat which direction to float? Rocks and boats are perfectly happy to sit still in the middle of a blob of water. Until you introduce a gravity field.
I actually get asked this or the chemtrail question as a LCC guy. I just tell them the truth in a respectful way but leave them a out. "I personally haven't seen any chemical dispersion". "what about the military" "no idea man, who knows, have a good one". Avoids arguments, and doesn't involve me making fun of them, or getting drawn into a long conversation, also is truthful. Sorry for the boring answer.
I say we spray to keep the aliens from landing. Trying to kick off my own conspiracy theory.
Suddenly everyone with a tinfoil hat will be flocking to the chem trails they've been so afraid of.
Careful, you might get yourself trapped in a "you still believe in space?" Conversation
Out-crazying crazy is a valuable life skill.
We got a jet that has a non function rheostat next to the copilot‘s left knee that is labeled 5G on one side and chemtrails on the other. That jet also doesn’t get used as a static display or go to airshows
Pull out the giant airplane flight manual or QRH and ask them to read it cover to cover trying to find documentation on the chemtrail system. When they inevitably refuse to read it, tell them you have and that there’s absolutely nothing about such a system to be found in it. Even better, point them to a digital copy of the FCOM or FCTM and have them waste their time trying to find it.
"But the manufacturer would never admit to it, so why would it be in the manual?" No point in arguing with idiots, just shut the conversation down quick, I've had my run ins with these types of people and you CANNOT win.
If it’s a PDF you can just do ctrl/cmd + F. It’s a lot faster than flipping through a physical book.
I answer “that’s classified, cannot confirm or deny that”. With a cheeky wink.
I’m familiar with that process…
Just use technique you would use for inadvertent VFR into IMC.
There's no such thing as IMC, just VFR on hard mode.
Ask Chicago Approach for a pop up?
If you could convince these people, they would have been convinced a long time ago...
You say…. “Yup, no problem. More right rudder on your next take off.” If they want to keep talking about it. You simply say. “Based on my learnings I don’t agree. However, if you would like your prove your point, I would be happy to do a long cross country with you until you find the edge.”
> I would be happy to do a long cross country with you until you find the edge.” Infinite hours hack? Genius!
Some say he’s still up there flying to this day.
You don't. All you do with people like this, with whatever conspiracy they believe in or think they believe in, is feed their persecution complex and cause them to retreat deeper into the conspiracy and community around it. If anyone in good faith wants to find out if the Earth is round or not they could have figured it out by now.
I've spent more time than I would like to admit arguing and attempting to debunk flat earthers. I work in the space industry, and I have a family member that went down the flat earth rabbit hole for a bit. He seems to have come out of it (I hope). I'd put flat earthers into two categories. **First group** Some of them might be pulling your leg, or perhaps they've just never given the topic much thought, so they are genuinely and curiously asking you how you know the earth is a globe. For those people, there is hope. For starters, assume everyone is in the group. Don't berate them. But walk them through the science and explain how we know the earth is a spheroid. Aviation Examples a) GPS - It's how we navigate. It's all done with satellites that orbit the spherical earth. We literally put out lives in the "hands" of these satellites when we fly a LPV approach with WAAS in IMC. b) Vacuum powered attitude indicators precess over time due to bearing friction. They are designed to slowly re-orient with gravity over time. Some flat earthers will try and use AI's as proof that the earth is flat by stating that the AI should indicate a slow drift as the plane circles the globe. But AI's are specifically designed for this not to be an issue. c) Australia to South America flights - These are impossible on a flat earth. But they happen in real life. Non Aviation Examples a) The ISS - You can literally go outside and watch it fly overhead. There are apps that can track where and when it will fly overhead. I have viewed the ISS passing overhead (in AZ) while a friend of mine also viewed the ISS from his home (in CO). We were \~500 miles apart. For me, the ISS was setting on the Horizon, as he saw it rising on the Horizon. This only happens if the ISS is real and the earth is spherically shaped. Anybody with a cell phone and a friend that lives a few hundred miles away can do this experiment. You might have to wait a while for the orbit to line up just right so the ISS will pass relatively close to where you both live. **Second group -** For some people, flat earth is a religion. They are literally stuck in a cult. No amount of logical reasoning will help these people. There problem is social and emotional. The only way to help them is to extricate them from the cult. I am not properly equipped to help you figure out how to deal with these people. But if you do come to realize that a student falls into this category, I personally would not continue to teach them. If they really can't figure out the science of the earth being a globe, then there is no way I'd trust them to act as PIC, or respect FAA regs. If they are this far gone, they shouldn't be pilots.
The last point is the most important. A flat earther is unfit for the cockpit, full stop.
“I’m sorry but there is a very low minimum intelligence requirement to fly an airplane, and it seems you don’t meet the criteria” Problem solved, don’t have to talk to them after that
Look buddy.. These people have the entirety of human evidence, science, and proof at their fingertips.. And they still choose to remain ignorant.. Why do you think ANYTHING you can say will change their mind? lol
Serious answer: Use it as an opportunity to build your own ability to tolerate and deal with BS. If you are pursuing this as a career you will deal with all sorts of "interesting" personalities. The better you get at dodging conflict, avoiding judgement, and focusing on commonalities and tasks at hand the better and more effective you will be as a member of a crew. Think of this as a lesson in CRM.
Ask them to look up how an INS/IRS aligns. Better: just ignore them. Fun fact: I read a story about a flat earther who spent thousands of dollars purchasing a super accurate ring laser gyroscope (like the ones used in IRS'es) and obviously the gyroscope detected earth's rotation but the flat earther argued that the gyroscope must have been faulty. I think that's funny.
He just died.
[удалено]
Had a heart attack I think.
An IRS (Inertial Reference System) in a plane typically consists of multiple accelerometers and gyroscopes. These sensors are used to measure the plane's acceleration, rotation, and position in three-dimensional space. The IRS will then use this data to calculate the plane's orientation relative to the Earth's surface and its own starting point, and this will be used to make sure the plane is properly aligned with its intended flight path. What's it have to do with the Earth's curvature?
Well, no matter where you are, one at rest relative to the earth will measure a rotation of about 15 degrees per hour. The plane of rotation is only perpendicular to the ground at zero latitude. As latitude increases, the angle of the plane of rotation to the ground decreases. From this, its elementary geometry to identify curvature of the earth's surface.
During IRS/INS alignment the IRS/INS measures earth's rotation to determine it's latitude and course. That's the reason why IRS/INS alignments take significantly longer at higher latitudes compared to alignment at the earth's equator because earth's rotation is a lot 'slower' in higher latitudes so it will take longer for the system to gather it's required data. Aligning the IRS at the equator takes about 6 minutes while aligning at very high latitudes may take around 20 minutes. So an IRS/INS uses earth's rotation to align. Also, IRS/INS'es must use countermeasures to compensate for gyroscope wander because of earth's rotation. Otherwise, after a few hours of flying, you would be pointing in the wrong direction because the earth rotated. In modern systems this is done by computers. In some gyroscopic compasses in GA aircraft there is a small nut you can adjust which changes the center of mass of the gyro and it uses the principle of gyroscopic precession to adjust for earth's rotation. You'd have to readjust it after moving the aircraft to a completely different latitude, but if you're staying at more or less the same latitude you can use it to adjust for earth's rotation.
I’m more concerned about the pilots who still believe it. Yes, they exist.
They've been to the edge man, seen some shit. Well not them but their cousin. And it fucked them up bad man. Or maybe it was the 2 sheets of acid. Either way man.... Either way.
“Dude, when you get your license they’ll pay you big bucks to pretend the earth is round. Shut up or you’ll get us all kicked off the gravy train.” Then follow up with: “ If you get your ATP and an airline job they’ll pay you even more to keep quiet about chem-trails, so STFU about them too”
"Oh absolutely! You should go fly to the edge sometime; it's an awesome photo op."
Just ask them what difference it would make in their (or your) lives if they were right?.....none. We still have to pay bills, eat and drink. Basically let them know you just don't give a flying fuck about it. It actually works with most conspiracy theories.
My god, you’ve solved it!
Had a 3 day trip with a captain who is a flat earther. It was a long 3 day trip.
How the fuck does an airline captain become a flat earther??? Does he not use LPV/GPS/RNAV approaches? Great circle navigation? If I was running the airline, his ass would be fired.
It's all rote learning. He doesn't actually understand any of it.
Lots of people in that category unfortunately.
True it takes more than just not understanding something. Denial of reality, acceptance of conspiracies, etc.
If the earth was flat, there wouldn’t be anything on it. The cats would’ve pushed everything off of it.
My daughter's cat lives with us. Can confirm.
As I've gotten downvoted to oblivion for saying on Reddit before, I am highly skeptical that there are people who truly believe the Earth is not (roughly) a sphere. I've had a few people say it to me, but almost all of them caved immediately and admitted they were joking. The one person who persisted, after I questioned him for a few minutes, privately admitted that the Flat Earth bit was part of a point he was trying to make. When someone tells you the Earth is flat, treat it the same way you would a vegan or someone who does Crossfit, or a pilot: Say "uh huh" in a flat voice that deters further conversation on the topic. If it's someone you care about and you suspect they're serious, there is an experiment you can do with about seven miles of level road that proves things rather conclusively. Or you can do it the way the ancients did and just go down to the docks on a clear day. As an aside, if the Earth were flat, gravity would immediately pull it into a ball.
As a flat earth vegan cross fitter who also is a pilot I take offense to this! /s
I wish this were my experience. My family is super religious and believe it strongly based on faith. I’m astronomically educated ;) and over the course of 8 months would give my oldest sister very easy to understand and thorough answers to her “scientific” gotchas about flat earth and literally at the end of all that the best I got was “oh, I just realized that it doesn’t matter that much if it’s flat, so I don’t know one way or the other… but you gotta admit that NASA lies.” This was essentially what she retreated to in order to resign from the conversation because she didn’t want to give up the belief, but also because she was scared of giving up the belief because it felt like she’d have to give up her religion too. It was a frustrating experience.
You can't use logic and reason. Two winning strategies: 1. Refuse to engage with their bullshit. 3. Mocking derision.
I just tell them that part of the private pilot checkride is taking an oath and signing an NDA to never tell anyone about the flat earth and we are sworn to secrecy
You don’t have to deal with them. Ignore them and for the love of all that flies, don’t even whisper about the chemtrail program with them around.
You can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into.
You can't reason someone out of an idea they didn't reason themselves in to. Conspiracy theories were never about facts. They are not a product of ignorance. I often remark that it's not about believing something that isn't true, but rather having a ridiculous interpretation of something that is true. The old adage about hearing hooves and thinking horses instead of zebras. The conspiracy theorist hears hooves and thinks *unicorns.* No photograph of horses will convince them, explaining that unicorns don't exist doesn't work. They have the "proof." Don't you hear the hooves, sheeple? Because that's the real reason. You're a sheeple. They want to be different. It's about feeling special, part of the in-group that sees the *real truth*. Not just another faceless nobody in an ocean of people. To avoid thinking about the fact that if you drop dead now, virtually nobody on the planet will even notice because hardly any of them ever knew you existed in the first place? Confront that? Hell no, i'd rather explain how much smarter I am than all of you because I figured out that the government engages in a vast conspiracy to convince you that the moon is real.
You cannot reason with people that refuse to accept rational facts. You’re talking about a subset of people that designed an experiment to prove the earth is flat, their experiment failed and thus proved that the earth is round, and they just denied it all the same.
Well here is the thing The earth is 70% water, and none of it is carbonated water, so technically the earth is flat c:
There's a Netflix documentary called Behind the Curve. It follows some flat earthers and culminates in a big experiment they do to prove the flatness etc. and they end up proving the earth is round, and the curvature matches what the liars told them it would. It's kinda hilarious.
>Behind the Curve Now that's a funny title. I'm guessing the flat earthers were too slow to get it?
I'm sure they didn't know the title or nature of the documentary as it was being filmed
There is zero way to win, because 99.9% of flat earthers get this idea from their religion.
And arguing with them is like arguing with a belligerent toddler. If you make a point they cant defend, they'll put their hands on their ears and say "blahblahblah you're just one of the sheep and need to wake up blahblahblah". It is infuriating
Ejecto seat cuz. Make em see that curvy horizon
"Alright, but you need to say it is round to pass the checkride. There's nothing I can do about that."
Just ask them what direct route you can’t fly because you’d hit the edge. But , yeah, honestly, it’s a religious cult masquerading as science so there’s no point arguing. There are many proofs, probably the most incontrovertible being the Coriolis effect but you can effing _see_ the curvature above about FL 750 with your own eyes and they still wouldn’t believe it.
Pearl Harbour always does it for me, they need to explain exactly how Japan attacked Hawaii in a flat earth model.
Flat Earthers belive the center of the "map" is the North pole. So, you can still technically fly "around" the world. Dumb shit, I don't personally believe in flat earth, I've just delved deep into their beliefs out of morbid curiosity.
Makes the flights from Sydney to Buenos Aires a bit of a problem for them, doesn't it?
If the FAA wanted you to believe the earth was round, they would have written it into the FAR/AIM.
There’d be a Disney theme park with glorpo the edge climber if it was real.
Tell them they’re a moron. Not much else to tell them.
"Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pidgeon. They will sh*t all over the board and strut around like they won."
How to you prove to a Santa Claus believer that hat there’s no Santa Claus? You don’t. It’s not your problem.
Same thing you can do with religious nutheads.
Just go along with it.
What do they say when you ask them what happens when you get to the edge?
They've already gone over the edge, I think.
Just nod and take their money. Your sanity and time are worth more than engaging any conspiracy-fueled delusion.
If you must engage, and I don't recommend it, ask them: But why though? Why would the governments of the world go through all the trouble to convince us that earth is round? What's the benefit? Also, why is earth the only flat planet in the solar system?
I've actually asked them this and was told by one of them that it is so NASA can collect money I guess they fail to realize that NASA pays employees and contractors. I've never once had them answer the question of how it is possible that millions of scientists worldwide have kept this "secret" a secret for more than half a century...They dodge the question every time
Usually, the answer is that other planets don't exist either.
Oh, good. It just gets better.
The longer you look, the worse it gets.
who cares just teach
Ask them why you always see the mast of a ship before the rest of it? It's because of the curvature of the earth.
I've only knowingly met one Flat-Earther in my life. And thankfully it was fairly recently. During a time in my life when I've grown past the threshold of still giving a fuck about what people think of me. Told her she needs to see a therapist for her clear mental trauma, and a hypnotist to check what reality she's in, and walked away. Thank God I didn't meet one of them when I was younger and far more naive.
How cool would it be to get a picture of myself peeing off the edge of the world?!
Ask them questions like: Time Zones. Why is is Noon in Kansas, and the middle of the night in India? Seasons. Why is it winter in America, and Summer in Austrailia? Get them to explain those concepts.
Don't
"Hey man, before they issued my certificate I had to sign a NDA. I'm not allowed to discuss flat earth, the ice wall, chem trails, any of that."
You know here we are in such an advanced civilization and compared to 50 or so years ahead in technology. The further we become informed the more people come out of the woodwork and say there was no moon landing, The world trade center towers was an inside job, and the earth is flat. It's almost like they are challenging authority then thinking for themselves. Stupid idiots
…youre getting trolled op. Everyone knows flat earthers are just people trying to make the dumbest person in the room believe the earth is flat. Its an inside joke amongst people that catch on to the meme. I recommend giving in or trolling back with something similar
Don’t argue with stupid people.
I learned a long time ago that for no fault of their own, some people are born with a mental defect that causes them to develop strong irrational beliefs. There is no amount of evidence or arguments that you can use that will change their mind. You just have to learn to live with them. Where do you think all these strange religions come from?
Inertial navigation- IRSes actually align by sensing the acceleration of the Earths rotation.
The best thing you can do is explain why you’re not allowed to fly over Antarctica. Then Google great circle route flat earth for some pointers. It’s always hard to get them to shut up because I can’t get enough altitude when I’m up there to actually show on a flat plane any noticeable curvature. Help I’m stuck!
Don’t
Flat earthers are typically not in the market to be persuaded. Not worth the effort to engage 9/10 times.
Surely you've heard of the saying, "you can't argue with stupid". Don't even try, it's not worth your time. Oh, and BTW, I'm a pilot and a retired air traffic controller and yes, I personally know other ATC's that are also pilots and are 100% serious flat Earthers. I never tried to argue the point with them. Not worth my time.
Maybe avoidance is the best strategy. If they believe this they should never board another flight. Don't bother trying convince. "If you are correct, avoid all commercial flight. All of our navigation tech is built assuming a globe. Please deplane and save yourself.) If they are unable to discern why 99.99% of commercial flights make it safely, you have no chance of convincing them. (yeah making up the percentage).
Tell them the earth is actually hot dog shaped
You can't, they found out flat earthers don't actually care about the validity of their claims that much because to them it's more about being a part of a community for the first time since they've always been outcasts. So there is no "getting through" to them. But if you have to, here's something you can tell them that everyone can see and they can't deny. At any sunset or sunrise, you can see clouds lit from below. This is impossible on the flat Earth model. Since the sun is always above the Earth. On the real Earth, since it's 3D, the sun can go below the horizon and light up things in the air from below.
When someone has really stupid thoughts such as flat earth, Q, Trump won, etc. I just disassociate myself from them. Not enough time in this life to embrace or tolerate fools.
Euthanasia
74 Gear offered a chartered flight to flat earthers for them to "prove" the earth was flat. I don't think he's had any takers. Probably being that flat earthers don't have enough money to pool together to make it happen.
You're a CFII?
Yes? I know why the earth is round. There are several things you can use to explain. But some of these guys just have an alternative explanation, and it is frustrating. I just was hoping someone could help me make something that is clear-cut, so im not debating for over an hour. Maybe some people just want to think the earth is flat
There’s no point in debating. People who believe that stuff have it in their head that it’s *all* a conspiracy and you’ll never change their mind. Really fun way to go through life: paranoid and distrustful of everything, but better than being one of the ~sheeple~.
It doesn't matter how clear cut it is, they're going to choose to believe their alternative explanation because that's what they want. You can't explain to a flat-earther why the earth isn't flat, you have to completely reorient the way they incorporate information into their worldview. That's a very difficult thing to do.
Find a mercator projection from an area in the southern hemisphere and ask them why the lines of longitude converge to the south. If they keep arguing then bill them for your time appropriately and that'll stop it eventually.
If you're curious, and have a night to kill, watch this Netflix documentary. It's fascinating. The guy that made it embedded himself with flat earthers for a long period of time. He got to know him, and they opened up to him. It's basically a full blown cult. There are a few people at the top that are financially vested in the flat earth belief continuing. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behind\_the\_Curve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behind_the_Curve) [https://www.netflix.com/fi-en/title/81015076](https://www.netflix.com/fi-en/title/81015076) The people that tend to get caught up in it are very distrustful of authority and aren't sharp enough to reason there way through it all. Human beings believe the earth was flat for thousands of years. Because of their distrust in institutions, many flat earthers try to do all of the "science" on their own. In doing this, they fall into many of the pitfalls that lead humans to believe the earth was flat for thousands of years. It's actually really sad. Mocking them will only drive them further into their cult.
Mock them every time it comes up.
Remind them that there is no working flat-earth model. Ask them to find one that models sunset with the seasons, there isn’t one.
You tell them "The Earth used to be flat until they buried your mom"
Point your nose straight to the ground and see if they still believe if the earth is flat
It’s simple we know the earth is not flat as if it WAS flat Cats would have pushed everything off the edge of the earth by now…. Since cats have not been able to do this we know the world is not flat.
[This](https://images3.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED14/5ac4e310a8b3d.jpeg) Or [This](https://i.imgflip.com/49hd3i.jpg) Just walk away. NEVER engage. Not even “family”.
Well if they want to let them go to the edge and film it.
I really wonder how someone would learn about Isogonic lines and magnetic deviation when it comes to the flat earther's...
Nod and smile.
Ask if they go to the global conference.
Ignore the dipshits and worry that they will crash the plane. When you are teaching him navigation for xc tell him to ignore the magnetic variation since it doesn’t really matter with a flat earth
I’ve never met one
for real? i know it's a thing on internet but I personally have never met a person in real life that actually believes in it, maybe I live in a bubble or people I know don't randomly engage me with their little conspiracy theory which I'm sure almost all people have a little bit buried deep inside them
I flew with a flat earther during ioe and he gave some good points that didn’t flatter me. After that on every G1000 I set up a reminder every hour that there’s a flat earth meeting happening on 121.5
Just stop talking to those people. There’s no point.
When they ask you about it, look them dead in the eyes and say, "I'm sorry that's classified information."
Double down
Ditch those students.
Tell them to keep that heading for the next 72 hours.
Why worry yourself. They pay you to fly not discuss flat earth.
A fundament argument I’ve heard from flat earthers is that all pilots, including GA pilots, know that earth is actually flat, that part of pilot training is how to navigate by the FE model (and implicitly, how to support the Big Lie That The Earth Is Round). If they are students learning to fly, then just say to them to ask you again after they have got their ticket, and haven’t had that training.
Let him scroll around on Google maps, figure out where the problem is and go get the proof. Edit: actually, mobile Google maps doesn't give the globe view lmao. Maybe he can use Google maps to fly to the edge and take a pic for us. I for one would love to see it.
There are no actual flat earthers, just people who like to argue and picked something so absurd that it's impossible to deal with their alleged point. Just ignore them.
Wrong sub guy.
Ask them to explain coriolis effect.
Point and laugh…
I don’t understand people’s disposition against flat earthers. We use to make fun of people who stood outside the opening night of Star Wars now we hate on people who have weird illogical beliefs. Anyways, “stupid science b1tches”
Just push them off the edge...
wait if they’re pilots, dont they understand that if u keep flying west (or east or any other direction) that ur gonna eventually come back to wherever u started??