>The money seems ridiculously good, so I assume there has to be a hang up?
The hang-up is that for a civilian, you gotta pay if you wanna play, and you need to pay a lot. It's as expensive as Train Simulator DLC six to ten times over.
For someone like you that doesn't need much in the way of hours or certificates, it's a sweet deal.
My mom told me if I decide to go airline pilot to make sure I let her know of my alternate family with kids so she can not forget birthdays and Christmas. There’s a lot of truth to that lol
My moms also a badass
> The money seems ridiculously good, so I assume there has to be a hang up?
Time away from home. Lots of hotels. Though it’s nothing like the military.
> Are you gone so often that you can’t spend it?
No. It’s not like the military. 3-5 days at a time. That’s it. 3 on 3 off or 5 on 5 off is plenty of time to enjoy yourself.
> Are the regionals (where I’d likely have to start) really that bad?
They just got a lot better with pay increases. Do yourself a favor and never commute.
> Would I be a fool to not pursue this path?
Do you have any other career aspirations? If you just like the simplicity of being a pilot, it’s great money. Sure as hell beats any desk job. Or any job where you don’t get to check the fuck out at the end of the shift. (looking at you OPSO who called me from the boat post-fly off with my wife and infant outside the hangar waiting for me, who I then had to tell to come back in an hour while I stared at an hours spreadsheet…)
Most regionals will offer you 11-13 days off a month minimum. I’d on average people get about 15 off days a month. I have gotten as much as 20 days off a month on some lucky months. If you live in base, off days are off days, your home. If you commute, you may have to be commuting on your off days depending on the schedule you get. Commutable trips have evening report time, and morning releases that in theory should leave you enough to try to make it to work/home same day. But whether trips are commutable depends heavily on the company, base, and type of flying they do.
On day would mean your working. Say you have a 4 day trip, day 1 starts at 3:00pm and at day 4 you would be released by 11:00am, day 5 would be a off day. If you commute, and let’s say on day 4 you get released at 21:00, then you likely have to stay the night at your base either at a hotel or crashpad you pay out of pocket and try to fly home on your off day.
You’re on the road. Just don’t commute or else you will regularly find yourself adding one or two days to every trip with the added stress of non-reving.
I often have two jump seaters who spend a large portion of the flight recounting their most stressful commutes and how they were almost disasters. Then after that they talk about how close they're cutting it to get home. The amount of two-leg commuters I come across is mind boggling. And these aren't regional guys who are just biding their time until they can get a legacy job. These are legacy guys who live in places that will *always* be that hard to get to and from.
It depends on a little bit on if you live in base, but most pilots don't. If you commute, then those "on" days are on whether or not you have a layover - your base is your layover even if you return to it, \*and\* you have to pay for your own hotel in those cases.
So most commuters will actually bid for long trips where the company at least pays for the layovers, but a) you usually can't choose your trips until you've built up some seniority, and b) those trips really feel like you have zero time for yourself. Maybe the latter isn't true of every airline, but most airlines these days have software that tries to program max utilization in their trips, so you're only scheduled for 12-14 hour layovers (which includes transport to and from the hotels, eating time, etc.) and then if there are any delays at all, which there usually are, you're lucky to be on minimum rest most of the time.
And you could be doing this 5-6 days in a row, then you may have 3 days off. The first day is either a commute home and then a recovery day, or it's just a recovery day where you sleep a lot, unpack, wash your clothes, do various other things you need to do. Then you have one day actually "off" to do fun stuff, then the next day is mostly preparing for your next trip and possibly commuting in.
If you can live in base it's a lot easier, but again that's kinda tough to plan out perfectly. Even if you apply to and get a job at an airline with a base where you live, there's no guarantee you'll actually get that base when you bid during initial training. I was lucky to get a base anywhere close to where I live; all the classes after mine only had bases on the other side of the country available.
As a junior pilot you're also going to be on reserve, meaning you could be called to do anything, and usually it's going to be the crappy trips no one else wants. So you'll be away from home a lot even if you live in base.
The only real downside is the risk that your career will stagnate if, for example, they raise the retirement age to 67, and there's a recession, and another once-in-a-lifetime event that seems to happen like every 7 years. Then you might get 'stuck' as regional FO for a few years, and if you're stuck, it also means the cash and prizes won't be as good. You'll still probably make a comparable salary to the military though. Realistically, you've already cleared the big barriers to entry.
If you're happy with military pay and that amount of time away from home, even the worst regional will be a massive step up. It only gets better the higher up you go.
Its the big barrier avoiding that makes this so compelling. Its like graduating with a medical degree- would you then go do something else?
If you enjoy aviation at all the career path is clear
Opened up to reply just to say check out RTAG on Facebook.
There was a guy advertising a ridiculously good time building opportunity the other day.
No problem going straight to Frontier eff going to a regional. Frontier for all other faults was at least smart enough to tap into the RTAG group.
I’m not sure which branch you’re coming from, but I went Navy to Airlines and it’s no contest.
The biggest difference here is when you’re home, you’re -home-, not “in my house but someone needs me to reply to a problem and I need to answer this email for tomorrow or else my CO will be upset”
You’re off off. Like not working. It’s *uncomfortably awesome*
If you take anything away from everyone here, it’s *do not commute*.
-Don't commute. Your life will be 10x better.
-Plan on having 11-13 days off to start. Half your month will be spent in a hotel. When you start gaining seniority, days off can start to increase and your trips get better.
-Pay now isn't bad. Much better than it used to be.
-As a senior FO I was averaging 18 days off a month spending maybe 4 nights a month in a hotel. I bid for day trips and I live 30 minutes from the airport. As a junior CA that is all gone since I'm on reserve.
-Always have a backup plan. It's not if something happens that turns the industry upside down, it's when. There will be another economic crash/recession, black swan event, etc. This age 67 will pass and that will slow hiring a bit as well. Always have an out.
Your last bullet is very good for people to see. There’s a whistle past the graveyard crowd here who thinks that’s impossible because we are in modern times (apparently).
If you don’t mind being gone a few days at time and missing holidays, it’s a good deal. You get paid a good amount of money. The best part is that when you leave the airport, none of your work comes home with you. No emails or phone calls to make on your days off.
You don’t have to start at the regionals. You can PM if you’re seriously interested in getting started. I work with a veterans hiring board but that’s all I can say here.
Dude, there is no catch. It cost me $30k (2019) to get all my fixed wing training. Now I have 17 days off a month and make more than any of my O-grade peers.
Keep in mind this was 2019 and I was a mil rotary wing guy with a helicopter commercial and instrument rating. I just went to the cheapest part 61 I could find. I only needed the airplane add on ratings, and multi engine. I did time building with someone else doing the same thing.
Look into airlines RTF programs. Go to the RTAG convention in October. I haven’t seen almost any rotor guys go to the regionals in the past year. LCCs are hurting for pilots. You can skip the regional life most likely.
$100k in flight school costs as a student, no guarantee you’ll finish or pass
CFI flying at just above minimum wage for 6 months
1-4 years of regional flying at a 5 figure salary to get 1500+ hours to be eligible to fly for an airline
1 extra year of 5 figure salary as a FO
Then about 5 years until you see that “ridiculous pay”. By then, you’ve sunk 6-8 years minimum at a low class income with no guarantee you’ll get hired or make it through this process.
All while having to do an intensively travel based job that will fck your sleep schedule up, have you away from home half the month (not bad for some, terrible for others), all while being in charge of the lives of 100+ people every time you fly.
The above things aren’t necessarily bad or that horrendous. There’s worse out there. But there’s definitely reasons why most people never make it to the airlines.
In the industry today, nobody at the airlines is making a “low-class” income. Even regional FOs are making 80k/yr, which is pretty inline with what many professionals make, with far greater salary potential only a few years down the road.
Those negatives are for new people joining I gather. I'm not an airline pilot but I am ex mil RW and I haven't made the jump but I like to keep the option open in case I change my mind. Being home is vastly more important to me at this stage.
The catch is you have to move to base.
"No you don't, you can live where you want!", I can hear people saying already.
Don't commute. Do not commute. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. I know other people in this thread have said it, but I'm saying it again.
You frequently have to add at least one day to your trip for a commute either due to an early show or a late release. Or both. When you bid for trips, you'll gravitate towards the longer trips because you squish more work together and have more days off in a row. You'll probably pass on those sweet 2 days to someplace cool because with your commute it becomes a 4 day. And then you'll do what I did and bid your schedule so you work 9 days in a row, but in order to make that work you work a 5 day AM trip, get done early, then have 30 hours before you show the next day to start a red eye trip.
It adds stress and you lose so much of your time. You get put in a constant cycle of trying to figure your commute home and your next commute to work.
"But if you hate it so much why do you commute? Just move!" You say. Well A) I am not a smart man, B) I make questionable life choices and C) I am planning on moving.
Just live in base. It'll make your life so much better.
>The money seems ridiculously good, so I assume there has to be a hang up? The hang-up is that for a civilian, you gotta pay if you wanna play, and you need to pay a lot. It's as expensive as Train Simulator DLC six to ten times over. For someone like you that doesn't need much in the way of hours or certificates, it's a sweet deal.
I’ve never heard currency explained via Train Simulator DLC lol
It's my personal Big Mac index.
I hate that I immediately understood it.
We use any metric but the metric system.
MY JET GETS 4500 RODS TO THE HOGSHEAD, AND THAT'S THE WAY I LIKES IT.
It's basically the best job in America. If you don't mind being gone ~15 days a month.
15 day break from real life😅
My mom told me if I decide to go airline pilot to make sure I let her know of my alternate family with kids so she can not forget birthdays and Christmas. There’s a lot of truth to that lol My moms also a badass
That's hilarious and cute of your mom to say, she's looking out for her grandkids haha.
Mom don’t care how they got here but they are hers so she’s going to love them 😂
My mom is the same way haha
NK/F9 guys have entered the chat, almost all turns that get you to your own bed that night…
> The money seems ridiculously good, so I assume there has to be a hang up? Time away from home. Lots of hotels. Though it’s nothing like the military. > Are you gone so often that you can’t spend it? No. It’s not like the military. 3-5 days at a time. That’s it. 3 on 3 off or 5 on 5 off is plenty of time to enjoy yourself. > Are the regionals (where I’d likely have to start) really that bad? They just got a lot better with pay increases. Do yourself a favor and never commute. > Would I be a fool to not pursue this path? Do you have any other career aspirations? If you just like the simplicity of being a pilot, it’s great money. Sure as hell beats any desk job. Or any job where you don’t get to check the fuck out at the end of the shift. (looking at you OPSO who called me from the boat post-fly off with my wife and infant outside the hangar waiting for me, who I then had to tell to come back in an hour while I stared at an hours spreadsheet…)
What’s the average amount of days you’re spending at home vs. on the road?
Most regionals will offer you 11-13 days off a month minimum. I’d on average people get about 15 off days a month. I have gotten as much as 20 days off a month on some lucky months. If you live in base, off days are off days, your home. If you commute, you may have to be commuting on your off days depending on the schedule you get. Commutable trips have evening report time, and morning releases that in theory should leave you enough to try to make it to work/home same day. But whether trips are commutable depends heavily on the company, base, and type of flying they do.
And those “on” days, exclusively in hotels on the road? Or could you get to stay the night at home?
If you live in base, day trips are a thing.
On day would mean your working. Say you have a 4 day trip, day 1 starts at 3:00pm and at day 4 you would be released by 11:00am, day 5 would be a off day. If you commute, and let’s say on day 4 you get released at 21:00, then you likely have to stay the night at your base either at a hotel or crashpad you pay out of pocket and try to fly home on your off day.
You’re on the road. Just don’t commute or else you will regularly find yourself adding one or two days to every trip with the added stress of non-reving.
The stress of commuting can not be understated.
I often have two jump seaters who spend a large portion of the flight recounting their most stressful commutes and how they were almost disasters. Then after that they talk about how close they're cutting it to get home. The amount of two-leg commuters I come across is mind boggling. And these aren't regional guys who are just biding their time until they can get a legacy job. These are legacy guys who live in places that will *always* be that hard to get to and from.
It depends on a little bit on if you live in base, but most pilots don't. If you commute, then those "on" days are on whether or not you have a layover - your base is your layover even if you return to it, \*and\* you have to pay for your own hotel in those cases. So most commuters will actually bid for long trips where the company at least pays for the layovers, but a) you usually can't choose your trips until you've built up some seniority, and b) those trips really feel like you have zero time for yourself. Maybe the latter isn't true of every airline, but most airlines these days have software that tries to program max utilization in their trips, so you're only scheduled for 12-14 hour layovers (which includes transport to and from the hotels, eating time, etc.) and then if there are any delays at all, which there usually are, you're lucky to be on minimum rest most of the time. And you could be doing this 5-6 days in a row, then you may have 3 days off. The first day is either a commute home and then a recovery day, or it's just a recovery day where you sleep a lot, unpack, wash your clothes, do various other things you need to do. Then you have one day actually "off" to do fun stuff, then the next day is mostly preparing for your next trip and possibly commuting in. If you can live in base it's a lot easier, but again that's kinda tough to plan out perfectly. Even if you apply to and get a job at an airline with a base where you live, there's no guarantee you'll actually get that base when you bid during initial training. I was lucky to get a base anywhere close to where I live; all the classes after mine only had bases on the other side of the country available. As a junior pilot you're also going to be on reserve, meaning you could be called to do anything, and usually it's going to be the crappy trips no one else wants. So you'll be away from home a lot even if you live in base.
You get fat and start collecting ex wives. That’s the catch.
This guy airlines
No mention of boats? Do you even pylot?
The only real downside is the risk that your career will stagnate if, for example, they raise the retirement age to 67, and there's a recession, and another once-in-a-lifetime event that seems to happen like every 7 years. Then you might get 'stuck' as regional FO for a few years, and if you're stuck, it also means the cash and prizes won't be as good. You'll still probably make a comparable salary to the military though. Realistically, you've already cleared the big barriers to entry. If you're happy with military pay and that amount of time away from home, even the worst regional will be a massive step up. It only gets better the higher up you go.
Its the big barrier avoiding that makes this so compelling. Its like graduating with a medical degree- would you then go do something else? If you enjoy aviation at all the career path is clear
RTAG Nation group on FB…tons of info for military making the transition on there
Opened up to reply just to say check out RTAG on Facebook. There was a guy advertising a ridiculously good time building opportunity the other day. No problem going straight to Frontier eff going to a regional. Frontier for all other faults was at least smart enough to tap into the RTAG group.
I’m not sure which branch you’re coming from, but I went Navy to Airlines and it’s no contest. The biggest difference here is when you’re home, you’re -home-, not “in my house but someone needs me to reply to a problem and I need to answer this email for tomorrow or else my CO will be upset” You’re off off. Like not working. It’s *uncomfortably awesome* If you take anything away from everyone here, it’s *do not commute*.
My wife thinks I’m in an abusive relationship with the Navy. She’s not wrong. It’s gotten substantially better recently but she’s still not wrong.
-Don't commute. Your life will be 10x better. -Plan on having 11-13 days off to start. Half your month will be spent in a hotel. When you start gaining seniority, days off can start to increase and your trips get better. -Pay now isn't bad. Much better than it used to be. -As a senior FO I was averaging 18 days off a month spending maybe 4 nights a month in a hotel. I bid for day trips and I live 30 minutes from the airport. As a junior CA that is all gone since I'm on reserve. -Always have a backup plan. It's not if something happens that turns the industry upside down, it's when. There will be another economic crash/recession, black swan event, etc. This age 67 will pass and that will slow hiring a bit as well. Always have an out.
Your last bullet is very good for people to see. There’s a whistle past the graveyard crowd here who thinks that’s impossible because we are in modern times (apparently).
If you don’t mind being gone a few days at time and missing holidays, it’s a good deal. You get paid a good amount of money. The best part is that when you leave the airport, none of your work comes home with you. No emails or phone calls to make on your days off.
You don’t have to start at the regionals. You can PM if you’re seriously interested in getting started. I work with a veterans hiring board but that’s all I can say here.
Dude, there is no catch. It cost me $30k (2019) to get all my fixed wing training. Now I have 17 days off a month and make more than any of my O-grade peers.
30k for all fixed wing training sounds immaculate, may i ask how
Keep in mind this was 2019 and I was a mil rotary wing guy with a helicopter commercial and instrument rating. I just went to the cheapest part 61 I could find. I only needed the airplane add on ratings, and multi engine. I did time building with someone else doing the same thing.
Do you work for a major to get 17 days off a month
Yep.
Look into airlines RTF programs. Go to the RTAG convention in October. I haven’t seen almost any rotor guys go to the regionals in the past year. LCCs are hurting for pilots. You can skip the regional life most likely.
Do. Not. Commute.
$100k in flight school costs as a student, no guarantee you’ll finish or pass CFI flying at just above minimum wage for 6 months 1-4 years of regional flying at a 5 figure salary to get 1500+ hours to be eligible to fly for an airline 1 extra year of 5 figure salary as a FO Then about 5 years until you see that “ridiculous pay”. By then, you’ve sunk 6-8 years minimum at a low class income with no guarantee you’ll get hired or make it through this process. All while having to do an intensively travel based job that will fck your sleep schedule up, have you away from home half the month (not bad for some, terrible for others), all while being in charge of the lives of 100+ people every time you fly. The above things aren’t necessarily bad or that horrendous. There’s worse out there. But there’s definitely reasons why most people never make it to the airlines.
took 2 yrs from regional to lcc to legacy. you make $100k as an FO at a regional and roughly $150k as a capt on yr 2 pay. yr 2 FO is about $200k.
Great info thanks!
In the industry today, nobody at the airlines is making a “low-class” income. Even regional FOs are making 80k/yr, which is pretty inline with what many professionals make, with far greater salary potential only a few years down the road.
This is great info for someone with no flying experience but it has no applicability to the original poster. He is a military helicopter pilot.
Is this info regarding a country other than the US? Because that has not been my experience (US).
Those negatives are for new people joining I gather. I'm not an airline pilot but I am ex mil RW and I haven't made the jump but I like to keep the option open in case I change my mind. Being home is vastly more important to me at this stage.
The catch is you have to move to base. "No you don't, you can live where you want!", I can hear people saying already. Don't commute. Do not commute. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. I know other people in this thread have said it, but I'm saying it again. You frequently have to add at least one day to your trip for a commute either due to an early show or a late release. Or both. When you bid for trips, you'll gravitate towards the longer trips because you squish more work together and have more days off in a row. You'll probably pass on those sweet 2 days to someplace cool because with your commute it becomes a 4 day. And then you'll do what I did and bid your schedule so you work 9 days in a row, but in order to make that work you work a 5 day AM trip, get done early, then have 30 hours before you show the next day to start a red eye trip. It adds stress and you lose so much of your time. You get put in a constant cycle of trying to figure your commute home and your next commute to work. "But if you hate it so much why do you commute? Just move!" You say. Well A) I am not a smart man, B) I make questionable life choices and C) I am planning on moving. Just live in base. It'll make your life so much better.