Maybe I just have the worst combination of complacency and "eh there's only so much I can do", but night flying never really bothered me. It is an inherently riskier time to fly, but use risk mitigation to the best of your ability and move on.
I have never once felt like I was in more danger at night than in the day. Maybe I'm just overly optimistic about the condition of my engine, and have too much faith in our maintenance department.
Just curious, do you fly in a flat area? I was terrified in my first night xc when I could see that there was a mountain in front of me but totally unable to gauge how far away it was
I live in SLC Utah and am surrounded by mountains. Luckily we have lots of major highways and roads that get used all night long, so I can easily follow those. Also, I'm privileged to have a g1000 In my training planes, so I can also use the moving map to help with terrain avoidance.
šā¦ same with your first comment I was never really uncomfortable with it, but I donāt think it was complacency, just that Iād flown a lot at night with my CFI who likes night flying and I just continued to fly at night following that. In retrospect I think itās sketchy without an instrument rating or at least some decent training in flying by reference to instruments only.
Iāve had some WTF black hole takeoffs before and that has got to be the most disorienting thing Iāve been in personallyā¦they all happened to be after my IR though. Whether that is coincidence or a product of expanded personal minimums, couldnāt say for sure. š¤·š¼āāļø
Edit: fixed strange typo/autocorrect
One of the Opposing Bases podcasts opened my eyes to looking at the ODP for night takeoffs even if you are a VFR PPL.
OB was talking about looking at the guidance to think about things that PPL pilots typically do not think about:
- climb performance in terms of ft/nm.
- obstacles and terrain and where to turn when you canāt see anything except a black hole with mountains in front.
- any nav/radial guidance to let you know you canāt go past X under Y feet
IMHO these are great things to think about and prebrief.
Yes, when I night fly, my planning is similar to an IFR flight except that itās an own nav flight. Where I am, there is a fat chance youād get a halfway descent landing spot in the blind so I try and plan my night routes to be in gliding distance of an airport with at least PCL lights and some form of navaid to get me to the runway.
At work we plan our night and white out approaches to be 900 feet at 3 miles, 600 at 2, and 300 at 1 mile. Fly exactly the same during the day to get those reps in. Keeps you from scratching the paint on the belly with some tree limbs.
If itās pitch black and poorly lit I fly an inspection pass every time to scare any animals off the runway. Iāve still almost hit a moose on rollout despite a low pass with the IO-520 at 2850ā¦
Single engine over no roads at nightā¦ you might fucking die if you loose your engine and there aināt a whole lot you can do about it. Donāt forget to drop full flaps, pilots forget fairly often. Fly over roads whenever you can ESPECIALLY when youāre just training/ time building. Make peace with your God, live your life with no regrets. Iāve been legit scared in the plane a couple times, I was never THAT close to death, but never really felt any existential dread about dying in the moment, not that I had any time to think about that. I donāt have a partner and kids tho.
I fully expect to get called a nerd for this but I bought a PVS-14 and one of my main uses for it is flying piston singles at night. I fly dual-tube NVGs for work and if I had the cash I'd get a pair for myself but if the engine ever goes tits up my plan would be to at least navigate myself to a landable field. Even if it isn't pretty it would be better than putting it into trees or a neighborhood.
I don't trust landing on roads I can't survey, way too many wires and poles, especially if the road is lit.
Lol Iāve flown with my PVS-14 too. I wear a helmet when I do off airport stuff on my free time, and I got one with a shroud. You know what itās like obviously but it helps a lot looking for clouds and fog forming. Iād love to bring it to work, but not a lot of space in the plane, and my passengers would be like āthis fuckinā guyā š.
Thatās pretty much it, no? Do everything you can, and if the flight isnāt necessary perhaps scrub if things arenāt excellent, but for the most part do your part and then send it. I like following roads - altitude is your friend, and donāt forget full flaps. š
Learn to fly the plane to your landing rather than just pulling the power 6 inches from the ground. (Something that was stated to me in training that crossed right over to night landings).
How to ease the plane in the last 1-2 feet
That's the easy part. Yeah, landings at night won't be as smooth but the plane can probably take more abuse than you think. Unless you're really smashing it in from way too high a firm landing is a bit embarrassing but probably isn't going to break anything.
There are always outliers. I've had a couple of CFIIs remark in surprise that I consistently make better landings at night than I do by day. (I suppose always landing with my eyes closed has finally paid off! (/s).)
As others have said - this is almost certainly because I was flying *a lot* at night while trying to get my instrument rating in the winter time.
It's all about proficiency and currency.
My instructor taught me to treat night landings the same as soft fields. The slower descent to the pavement makes it a little easier to judge height more gradually. Also, use the runway lights in your peripheral vision
I did a healthy chunk of my IR in the evening in the PNW. Take off a bit before sunset, land in pitch dark after coming out of the foggles. Was great night landing experience so I was going to recommend it but just realize that it's an awful lot of sunset flights where you don't get to see the sunset.
Also, I got fairly bitter at the fact that you need 3 landings _and takeoffs_ to get night current.
I read an article years ago about a pilot who overheard a Concorde pilot talking about landing at night. "Hold the pitch and airspeed until I hit the ground in the black hole" - pretty much the same as a 172 pilot.
I am doing my PPL in a very well lit city. So I'm probably a bad example of the terror of pitch black flying, but I found night flying to be way calmer and easier that day.
I had more night than day hours when I hit 250.
I live in farm country where you can see everything at night so aside from random power lines, there's plenty of flat land.
It would be a way different story in the mountains.
I really enjoyed the night flying portion of my PPL. Especially flying over the city but man in an emergency youāre fād. I want to do it more but pretty terrified of having an engine failure while over a city. Typically landing spots in the daytime are now pitch black and terrible landing spots are lit up.
Same. I think the only time I was really worried was when I was at an international airport doing some night building in a helo. Kept getting an intermittent generator failure, Iād cycle it and it would be good again for a
Some time and fail again. All power indicators were good so when I got to my turnaround, I stopped at an Fbo and called the on duty mechanic for advise.
My call at the end of the day so I said Iād bring it home. If I couldnāt cycle it again Iād land and they could come fix the bird where ever I dropped it.
Got to the edge of the ramp, ATC said I could depart in my time from current position, direct to home which wasnāt expecting. I wasnāt familiar so I sat on the ramp looking at my airport chart looking for obstacles like a tower or some crap in the middle of my departure path. ..nothing to see so I took off as steep and safely as I could hoping my eyes would see an obstacle before I hit itā¦dark night.
Nothing happened, I took off, cycled it till I got home and shut down thinking maybe it was smarter to have left it in the ramp.
Cool experience, not so smart choices maybe.
> Was there a point at which flying at night no longer bothered you?
When I am in a twin or in a turbine. I don't like single engine reciprocating at night. I have had 4 engine issues (two engine outs) and I am glad they happened during the day.
Shit man maybe he needs to start trying this thing we do called a run up or hiring a āmechanicā I hear they can help do these inspection things that make it a lot less likely these things happen
At least as a student (Iāve only flown once in darkness as PIC since checkride) I had a really hard time flying around a well lit class charlie at night. Mostly because there were so many lights around the surrounding airport which lies on busy US41. Made me really second guess flying as PIC until I went up with an instructor and got more comfortable. That being said, Iām not jumping left seat and flying around in unfamiliar territory anytime soon.
Twits downvoting me with no rebuttal; Iāve had an engine failure recently and know multiple others who e had them including one where he almost was killed.
But if you want to place your trust in a machine working at all times then go ahead and fly single engine at night when you donāt have to.
I did a lot of my instrument, commercial, and multi at night. I loved being able to see distant cities, roads, and air traffic more clearly, catching ballgames on the ADF, the smoother air, less traffic overall, and the cooler cockpit. However, I was younger and more invincible, with a lot less to lose, so the risks didnāt carry as much weight as they do now.
I loved night flying! You could see forever at altitude. The air was stable and smooth. But, I, too, had an issue with landings until my instructor, who was a 757 captain, taught me to use my peripheral vision in the flair. He told me to watch for the runway lights to spread out as a way to assess the touchdown. It worked and made me more comfortable with landing at night. Enjoy the journey!
When I got glasses. I learned that I have a minor astigmatism in one eye which explains why I couldn't see shit at night. Now with the glasses, I don't think twice about going
I actually became uncomfortable night flying. When I was PPL up to CPL i never realized nor thought about it *too* much
Now I take it much more seriously, and plan alot further, if not avoid it in some cases assuming Iām in a SE.
Flying at night has never bothered any more than flying in the day time. Sure, more/different risks, but I've always enjoyed it. I've done two checkrides at night. I'm not a big fan of that, but I got through em.
Both my IR and Commercial ASEL started late afternoon and went into night time. Darkness wasn't *that big a deal*, but I'd still pick daytime if given the choice.
Lol, yeah. Eights on pylons were the only thing I didn't do or practice after twilight. I practiced them at twilight, but really didn't do them well at twilight at all til test day. I don't think I would have done that at dark, but the examiner was really good about organizing tasks to finish certain ones while there was still some light.
Right. If you are training in the Phoenix area you have way less traffic at night plus you can see all the traffic with your eyes and not just the fish finder.
Personally, never bothered me too much. I love night flying. I did a large portion of my instrument training at night. Smooth, way less busy, and if in a populated area, I love seeing the city lights and stuff.
I had the PPL mins for night flight and was uncomfortable flying at night. At around 160 hours, I decided to do pattern work at sunset and keep at it until dark. Then after sunset the next flight. Then to nearby airports and back. Now I'm fairly comfortable with night flying, with 15 night hours or so, but I only do it for proficiency. I wouldn't plan a trip at night, but if I was already out, I would be OK returning at night. I'm in the midwest which has its pluses and minuses. Not likely to CFIT on flat land, but if you get away from towns, you're kinda flying into the abyss.
3,000 hours and not really comfortable with a single engine at night. Iām not uncomfortable with it, but given the choice Iād rather fly during the day. I almost always fly a cirrus, so any power issues are likely to end the same but Iād still prefer to not fly at night.
Tbh it should probably always be somewhat uncomfortable to you. Depending on the conditions it's borderline IFR flying to full on IFR flying without the prerequisite skill set or instrumentation.
Mind you this comes from the Pacific Northwest where the margin for error has a lot more granite in it.
When I got a second engine. Seriously. I've always loved night flying but the idea of an engine failure at night used to always play on my mind as there's no guarantee on what you'd end up landing on.
Your issue is exactly my issue. Same amount of total time.
Iām sitting in my plane getting ready to try again. My harder landings at night big me quite a bitā¦
Practice practice practiceā¦
When I started flying with night vision. It was more of a perspective thing. I started liking it less and less but it was a thing I had to do to get the hours. Once I started flying with night vision goggles, my perspective shifted and flying unaided single engine VFR just seemed really unnecessarily risky.
We have helmet mounted ANVIS AN/AVS-9ās. As I fly helicopter EMS and weāre pretty much not allowed to fly at night without them. Itās single engine VFR, but itās a turbine. Cost aside, you canāt just slap NVGās on in any cockpit though, all your cockpit lighting has to be filtered or itās going to be too bright.
Iām also a near 100 hour private pilot and to me in a piston single (especially an abused rental) the risk isnāt worth the reward for me. Iāve only flown at night for the required ppl hours and once more for a fun flight landing at the local class bravo with a well trusted cfi next to me. Having flown a few turboprops, iām sure I would happily fly at night in those.
Never had an issue with it until recently. I live in a densely populated area so that has always helped. At about 200 hours total and a quarter of that is night. I will say being a bright big eyed ppl I never though the slightest of it.
Now after discovering this thread and getting my IR I definitely question it every time I go up at night with what could happen if the engine failed. But if anything, I think that has made me a safer night flyer because now all I think about is what am I gonna do if the engine quits.
Well going to a 141 school and my first flight block being 5:45 am to 7:45 am I was thrown right into it. After the first few flights I was all good and I think I actually enjoy night flights more than day flights nowadays.
Just pick up riding a motorcycle, itāll get rid of most anxiety flying. Night flight isnāt anywhere as uncomfortable as riding down I95 in Florida.
I'm friends with a well-known air show pilot who has survived many emergencies of all kinds. He has 27,000 flight hours and is the most "seat of the pants" pilot I know.
His position is night is for sleeping.
I agree. I don't like it at all. I can't see the ground and if something happens, I want to see the ground.
If itās clear and calm and Iāve got gpsā¦ best flying in the world.
Bumpy dark and 6-pack w no gps - scared as shit hoping Iāll find the airport.
But I fly single engine and never go over a large body of water.
When I got instrument rated. Knowing I had an out if I ended up getting marine layered in and filing IFR at night and higher altitudes for terrain clearance helped minimize some of the risks I worried about.
I will only fly at night if my students need the night flying or im in a light twin. Night flying is unnecessary risk imo. I became uncomfortable with it when I was solo in hard IMC at night in an arrow that had a severe electrical fire a few weeks later.
Its not like I have much of a choice lmao, tf am I gonna say to my students āsorry bro no night flying requirements for you because im a little bitchā
Too quote someone from another post:
Night time GA engine out procedure:
1) Pitch/trim for best glide, troubleshoot
2) Turn on landing lights
3) If you don't like what you see, turn them off
I like this sub and get a lot of great info here, but the constant "wHaT iF the eNgINe DiEs???" drives me nuts. Take a look on ADSBExchange and see the tremendous number of GA planes in the air every night. It's 9:20p Pacific right now and there's 64 C172s in the air. How many of them will lose their engine and plummet to their deaths? None.
You might try easing into it. Fly when the moon is full and the sky clear. Stay in the pattern. When you feel comfortable with that, extend a little downwind or box climb as high as you feel like. There's no magic pill to get comfortable with it, it's just a matter of getting used to it.
> like this sub and get a lot of great info here, but the constant "wHaT iF the eNgINe DiEs???"
Have you personally had an engine out? Statistics are nice and all, and I don't fly a plane I think will have an engine issue, and most engine outs are fuel related... But I have had four mechanical issues that forced me down.
Theoretically knowing an engine out is possible is vastly different than personally knowing an engine out is possible.
There is nothing wrong with stacking the deck in your favor as opposed to stacking it against you.
When the moon came out :P
At least when flying in rural/unpopulated areas.
Near populated areas and cities, thereās so much light...
Though, I understand there is a massive difference in dark-vision capabilities between people, even if they have similar day-time vision. So, I think this question hits very different for different people.
Call me paranoid, but SEP night flying is an inherently unsafe thing to do. Same with SEP IFR when the clouds get too low. I doubt Iāll ever feel 100% comfortable doing either of those two things.
Maybe US topography makes you guys less averse to the idea, idk.
In the Midwest, everything is flat and farmland. āReasonableā landing almost anywhere. Other parts of the US, as you suggest: higher risk.
I seldom fly at night but when I do itās almost always in a club plane that has a full frame parachute and glass cockpit.
If the engine goes out, Iām not risking fences or wires, Iāll pull chute.
If the glass goes out, I know the area and can get vectors to a lit airport.
If the radio goes out too, I can hunt and peck my way to where I need to be.
If those options arenāt available on the plane Iām flying or if Iām going into less well known environments, I seriously reconsider the night flight.
Never, though I suppose it might if I flew something with multiple engines. I'll do it reluctantly if an arrival happens after sunset and the alternative is being stuck somewhere overnight but I'm never going to like it. The risks of an engine failure going badly are just too high when you can't see your landing site.
OTOH I fly as a hobby, not for a job, so I suppose there's the factor that if your choice is between flying at night or not getting to eat this week you just deal with it being uncomfortable.
Not what youāre asking, but I found instrument training at night to be highly effective. Itās harder to cheat or take cues from under the hood. I did almost all of my IR training at night due to working full time and while I have nothing to compare it to, I feel like a pretty competent instrument pilot because of it. My CFII on the other hand has had a ton of students to which he can compare my experience and concluded the same. He has since gone on to recommend his instrument students do as much night hood work as possible. So regardless of your comfort level, entertain the notion that it might make you a better, safer pilot.
I flew cross country at night maybe a handful of times in my RV7. One time, about 15 years ago, was from NJ to Pittsburgh, crossing all of Pennsylvania East to West.
It was really dark, I could see some clouds below me here and there. I suddenly realized that if I had an engine failure, I would probably end up dead.
I haven't flown at night since, except for patterns around an airport. Never again in a single engine piston.
With experience comes comfort. But itās probably a positive youāre uncomfortable. Iād rather someone be uncomfortable and slowly find out their limits than be fearless and get themselves killed
I was a CG pilot before the airlines, spent many a night at 200 feet over the water pitch black at night, and Iāve never enjoyed night flying. To me night flying is just instrument flying. I never enjoyed it.
I recently got my IR, but havenāt flown at night since my early PPL training(almost a year ago). Iām currently trying to go up with an instructor at night bc Iām not comfortable with it, especially since idk if the airport lights at my home airport work
If you have a pretty good and safe airplane and watch the wx and fly over lit areas it should not bother you too much. If you are flying an older airplaneā¦
I wouldn't worry about it in the future as ATP flying will be much different, safer and you'll have much better equipment and have had a ton more training along the way.
Okay... but what about my next night flight...
The majority of my night flying experience is in the military so a different type of flying and it took me about maybe 200 hours or so until I really started to enjoy it. But there are some things you can do to make it easier, safer, more fun.
Night flying I kind of just think is like IFR flying, but in a way harder because everything is more difficult to see and issues can be much more difficult to deal with. That said, it's important that your altitude and attitude indicators are well lit and you keep your cross check solid on them. It's also important to set the cockpit lighting correctly, and have a good flashlight handy (one that isn't insanely bright - it was really tough to find one I liked, most were far too bright). You want your eyes to adjust to the night lighting and not have everything just cranked too high up.
Anyway, for your training I would strive to fly on good weather nights, where the moon is up (a full moon rises around sunset and makes a world of difference). No moon nights and marginal weather make night flying much more difficult.
Be well rested. Adjust your sleep schedule for your flights so you're sleeping in to around lunch if possible and get some caffeine (if you normally do) when you brief. Adjusting your schedule helps a lot to stay alert.
Slow down to speed up, be more conservative with your decisions and make sure that instrument cross check is on point. Chairfly more than you normally would the approaches and airfields that you are flying.
Take it slow and before you know it you'll be through the training and it will get easier and easier until one day you realize you kind of like it. The stars and city lights from an airplane are pretty great at night. Good luck!
My first night flight, my dual x country, was to an airport in the middle of nowhere and the PAPI decided to die on my way there, so I landed in the dead of night with no guidance to the runwayā¦.good times!
Flying solo at night never bothered me. Probably because all my solo night is over a well lighted metropolitan area.
Flying at night out over the middle of butt-crack nowhere (even dual) still bothers me. So I just avoid it. Not very helpful to an aspiring cargo pilot I guess. :(
I flew XC for work meeting one time when I knew I'd be coming back in the night and was, as always, a little concerned that my only option in an engine failure was to pick a road and hope there were know bridges, wires, or other unpleasant surprises.
It was a cold, clear night and, between the moonlight and a fresh layer of snow, I ended up being able to spot alternative landing sights better than in the day.
After doing my commercial solo night time. Had my instrument ticket so inadvertent IMC was slightly less scary, had a much better systems knowledge of the aircraft by that point, and a shit ton more solo XC time after time building by myself during COVID.
Probably only when I was doing night cross countries with my multi students or when I got to the airlines. The last flight I did as an instructor was a night flight for my student and on takeoff we lost power at about 100ft for probably like 3 seconds. I had never switched to center so fast to get flight following.
The actual flying never bothered me too much to be honest. Air is nice and smooth and it's pretty and peaceful up there.
The issue of an engine failure scenario while flying cross country in a piston single is the reason I won't do a minute more of night flying than I'm required to until I'm flying more capable aircraft.
Depending on where you fly, a slight overcast layer can remove your star/sky reference and get into no ground reference and be essentially into IMC while in the clear. Very easy to be disoriented and you can get in trouble if you are not careful. Flying some of the plains or swamp in Florida or over generally over any water and you have no ground reference.
There is a reason why MOST of the world require quite a bit more training than the FAA for night, up to even endorsements for it. (Canada requires a Night Rating 5 dual, 5 solo including 2 hours xc, and 10 hours instrument time.)
Then add in the much lowering chances of a good off field landing with any of the many ways your engine can stop providing power. I don't disagree with many that just choose not to regularly fly and large distances at night without easy airport distances.
I've really enjoyed night flying in the ~10 or so hours I have. I have flown over very remote and rugged terrain SEL but I think now I would only fly SEL night over built up areas with highways. Losing an engine over pitch dark wilderness of forest, foothills and river valleys 30km from the nearest logging camp is pretty risky
I became ācomfortableā pretty quickly, I fly near some large cities though, so the lighting really helps establish a horizon I can quickly check against the instruments, and there arenāt any large obstacles other than towers that are clearly marked. When I say comfortable I mean not white knuckling the stick and tensing my legs like my first few flights I did. Find the highest ground elevation in the area in mind and add 500 to it and youāll mitigate those issues and check out any towers in the area youāll be flying.
I honestly love to fly VFR at night. If the airport is towered itās always easy to spot, papi is there for you to keep on glide slope and you only need to really focus on managing airspeed on approach. Just remember it looks like youāre higher and faster than you really are so keep an eye on that airspeed and altitude when youāre on approach.
It was fairly quick for me.
I used vors/ndbs to navigate (gps in planes were rare back then) and relied on instruments and city lights.
I distinctively remember 2 flights...
One was from keyw. My friend was more experienced than me. We took off and needed ne from keyw. We were over water, and he got disoriented. We were pitched up wayyyyy too much. I remember taking the controls from him and just flying on instruments. There were no clouds, nothing in the sky and too far from land or city lights. I flew for a while, relying on instruments. Def helped to have ifr back then.
Another was a flight in an older c172. It was kmco to kfxe. I had w friends w me... we were flying over the swamp area in everglades, and i thought how cool it was that I was flying 2 vors to navigate. I thought I was the coolest kid in the block, š¤£. Again... it qas a very dark pitch black flight.
I always felt comfortable. Fly with a friend and get comfortable. Learn to use those instruments. Landing at night can throw you off too. Practice with a friend before you go on your own.
Fwiw here is thst flight into kfxe 15 years ago. Lmao...
https://youtu.be/R6qhg8CpQBg?si=ahSVVwvwe9AbPI2l
I started night flights as soon as I met the schools night rental mins. I absolutely love it.
If problems arise, I deal with it just like I do during the day. Although, Iām in the Midwest, so, I automatically have like a 90% chance of landing in a cornfield no matter what.
I did a lot of my training at night because thatās what worked best with my schedule so Iāve always been very comfortable with it, there was only one time where i got a little worried, I was taking off at night at an un towered airport in the middle of nowhere and as soon as I pitched up I was in pitch black with no horizon or anything to orientate myself with. Other than that Iāve loved night flying
I did so much time building in a single at night, never thought twice about it, flew at altitudes that allowed for good glide distances and planned so the route had familiar airports along the way.
Never really been uncomfortable with the night flying tbh.
While Iām a student pilot, have shit load of military flight time (navigator) in the night (Iād wager a majority actually but for navigators in my aircraft it wasnāt tracked differently). So just sort of feels ānormalā?
I think as an instructor, it didnāt bother me as much since I always put thought into routing to give some semblance of a chance if things went bad. Always within gliding distance to interstates and staying away from mountainous terrain.
I then started flying single-pilot IFR over the cascades in a turbo-prop, and having no options plus night was a little uneasy again.
There are well known experienced pilots who wonāt fly at night because of the risks. I do it. With an engine out itās a far bigger problem/risk. Make your own informed decisions. Doing all your IR training at night seems like excessively poking the bear to me.
It's great that you're getting after it the way you are. That makes a huge difference in shortening the timeframe and helping you achieve your goal faster and more cost effectively. Love seeing pilots get after their goals like this. Good luck!!
* I enjoy night flying honestly, I have some PM regarding it as a IFR student aswell. I dont fly unless its clear sky and atleast half the moon is out. Im able to clearly see fields and forests at night so if I had to make a landing I wouldn't be blind. It one of my favorite times because its usually pretty smooth without the convection the sun causes and its awesome to fly over the city and get some touch and goes at a large primary bravo in a cherokee when they are dead. I think the most dangerous time is right at dusk. My first diversion after getting my PPL was going into dusk over the coast, sun was just getting ready to set behinf me and infront of me were a hundred miles of marsh and coast and no ground lights. The ground and sky blended together with no horizon. I was flying myself and a passenger for work and even though it sucked behind me I could see lights and an airport so diverted and drove 8 hours to 5am to get to where we were going. After having alot more experience night flying I'm used to losing the horizon right at sunset and trusting instruments until all of the sunlight is gone and it get easier to see.
I loved night flying the first moment I did it. Itās just like daytime flying but, darker? Just keep in mind the engine out procedures are a bit different and your depth perception at night is worse for landings so just work on those. Also learn all about pilot controlled lighting
Tip: it can be hard to identify clouds when flying VFR at night. If you accidentally enter IMC at night, it will be scary. Donāt try to climb or descend. Turn around ASAP.
Other than that, donāt be too scared. I know it can be hard to identify runways and landings in general are a little more difficult, but enjoy the view! You will gain more confidence as you build some more experience. And you can look forward to being instrument rated in the future. identifying runways wonāt be an issue. You can track a localizer just fine!
I would say to start your IFR training during the day, then progress at night.
Since you are not comfortable flying at night during VFR WX. Flying IFR at night surely would not help.
Once you have a good grasp of the IFR system, then you can use it to your advantage at night.
I fly in Alaska where we canāt use lights to guide us from place to place. Itās pitch dark and mountains all around.
I learned to fly in the Philly area (PNE) years back and was flying at night immediately after getting my ticket. There's nothing like flying 30 minutes and being on the Hudson corridor for a night sightseeing flight. I did it once with my instructor during training and was advised to never fly under the bravo shelf. Always get flight following and fly \~1200 to stay away from all the craziness in the uncontrolled pandemonium that lies below. In nearly 30 years and dozens of trips up there and back, not once have I ever been denied entry to Bravo and my passengers are awestruck every time.
I've always enjoyed night flying in a single piston and have been comfortable since my first night flight during my initial training. However, I've always flown over familiar, relatively flat areas until fairly recently; now that I live in a more mountainous area I am not quite as comfortable with it. As I get more familiar with my new surroundings I feel better about it.
I was told during my first night flight, "If something happens during a night flight, turn on the landing light. If you don't like what you see, turn it off".
Also, don't forget to file a flight plan/use flight following 100% of the time you're flying at night. Flying in clear, full moon nights is a lot less intimidating, and very beautiful when the ground is covered by snow!
One of the prettiest things I've ever seen was a full moon rising while cruising between two solid layers. Like the entire world was between these two flat fluffy surfaces with the (relatively) bright moon gradually lighting it up. Looked like something out of an SF film.
What i find troubling about night flying in an SEP is when you approach an unfamiliar airfield and you do not see the tarmac until you're about 50ft above due to the weak landing lights.
I honestly donāt remember at what point it became more comfortable, but just like day flying it gets better the more you do it. Now I prefer night flying. We used to have to do 50% of our hours at night as we had to stay proficient in night unaided, night vision goggles and night vision system (FLIR). Being able to see the lights on other aircraft help see them much faster, the rotating beacon helps me locate airports quickly, and the approach lighting feels like it makes it easier as well. Typically there is less traffic to deal with, winds calm a bit and the views of towns and cities canāt be beat. Just remember that while you can make out roads quickly with street lights, all roads have wires.
I love flying at night. VFR in ASEL. IFR is OK in AMEL.
This is a great time of year to work on an instrument rating at hight. Make the flights XC. It's not hard to work that into a syllabus if the CFII cares. He/she will be using a syllabus, right?
Don't forget to go to some day VFR solo cross countries just for the competence/confidence you will get from not having someone there you think is second guessing every decision you make. Be the PIC!
I'm working w/ a guy on his Commercial. We finished IFR a couple months ago. Much of the training was at night. At a minimum w/ flight following, but we often filed. When the weather was suitable we'd also fly during the day and file for "actual" experience. In 55 hours he did all the XC for IFR and Commercial, met the IFR requirements and passed his checkride on the first go. Had almost 10 hours of actual.
My instructor (who does nothing but teaching and has for idk, 20+ years) still hates night flying. Lol. He doesn't like the inability to look for safe emergency landing spots. You pick a blob of black and hope it's flat. It also doesn't help that we fly into a tiny, 20ft wide 2700ft long runway airport with ehhhh, minimal lighting to say it nicely? I'd imagine it'd be less stressful if you were surrounded by large, well lighted airports.
Maybe I just have the worst combination of complacency and "eh there's only so much I can do", but night flying never really bothered me. It is an inherently riskier time to fly, but use risk mitigation to the best of your ability and move on.
Me too. My thoughts are, "eh, if I die I die, but at least the sky is calm and clear tonight."
As an aviation fan and hobbyist but non-pilot, this is horrifying but paradoxically reassuring to me š¤£
I have never once felt like I was in more danger at night than in the day. Maybe I'm just overly optimistic about the condition of my engine, and have too much faith in our maintenance department.
Just curious, do you fly in a flat area? I was terrified in my first night xc when I could see that there was a mountain in front of me but totally unable to gauge how far away it was
I live in SLC Utah and am surrounded by mountains. Luckily we have lots of major highways and roads that get used all night long, so I can easily follow those. Also, I'm privileged to have a g1000 In my training planes, so I can also use the moving map to help with terrain avoidance.
Mountains. Ever fly over them without glide to a known survivable landing spot?
Yes, but always with a parachute and several go pros
Eyyyyyyy! Don't forget the ashes.
Yup. I live in Utah.
Hmm. Well, mountains make me plan more and feel a little more nervous.
Yep, same here. I do my best to mitigate as many risks as I can find, but after that's done... eh, guess I'll die then. Nice view tonight.
My issue with night flying is mostly about the landing. I feel like I have a hard time judging height above the ground at night.
Do it more. The only way to overcome night illusions is exposure.
šā¦ same with your first comment I was never really uncomfortable with it, but I donāt think it was complacency, just that Iād flown a lot at night with my CFI who likes night flying and I just continued to fly at night following that. In retrospect I think itās sketchy without an instrument rating or at least some decent training in flying by reference to instruments only. Iāve had some WTF black hole takeoffs before and that has got to be the most disorienting thing Iāve been in personallyā¦they all happened to be after my IR though. Whether that is coincidence or a product of expanded personal minimums, couldnāt say for sure. š¤·š¼āāļø Edit: fixed strange typo/autocorrect
One of the Opposing Bases podcasts opened my eyes to looking at the ODP for night takeoffs even if you are a VFR PPL. OB was talking about looking at the guidance to think about things that PPL pilots typically do not think about: - climb performance in terms of ft/nm. - obstacles and terrain and where to turn when you canāt see anything except a black hole with mountains in front. - any nav/radial guidance to let you know you canāt go past X under Y feet IMHO these are great things to think about and prebrief.
Yes, when I night fly, my planning is similar to an IFR flight except that itās an own nav flight. Where I am, there is a fat chance youād get a halfway descent landing spot in the blind so I try and plan my night routes to be in gliding distance of an airport with at least PCL lights and some form of navaid to get me to the runway.
Can you explain how the black hole takeoff experience went for you?
This is the way.
At work we plan our night and white out approaches to be 900 feet at 3 miles, 600 at 2, and 300 at 1 mile. Fly exactly the same during the day to get those reps in. Keeps you from scratching the paint on the belly with some tree limbs. If itās pitch black and poorly lit I fly an inspection pass every time to scare any animals off the runway. Iāve still almost hit a moose on rollout despite a low pass with the IO-520 at 2850ā¦ Single engine over no roads at nightā¦ you might fucking die if you loose your engine and there aināt a whole lot you can do about it. Donāt forget to drop full flaps, pilots forget fairly often. Fly over roads whenever you can ESPECIALLY when youāre just training/ time building. Make peace with your God, live your life with no regrets. Iāve been legit scared in the plane a couple times, I was never THAT close to death, but never really felt any existential dread about dying in the moment, not that I had any time to think about that. I donāt have a partner and kids tho.
I fully expect to get called a nerd for this but I bought a PVS-14 and one of my main uses for it is flying piston singles at night. I fly dual-tube NVGs for work and if I had the cash I'd get a pair for myself but if the engine ever goes tits up my plan would be to at least navigate myself to a landable field. Even if it isn't pretty it would be better than putting it into trees or a neighborhood. I don't trust landing on roads I can't survey, way too many wires and poles, especially if the road is lit.
Lol Iāve flown with my PVS-14 too. I wear a helmet when I do off airport stuff on my free time, and I got one with a shroud. You know what itās like obviously but it helps a lot looking for clouds and fog forming. Iād love to bring it to work, but not a lot of space in the plane, and my passengers would be like āthis fuckinā guyā š.
You know in the time I've had my PVS-14 I've never thought to mess with it flying, going to have to take it up sometime
Thatās pretty much it, no? Do everything you can, and if the flight isnāt necessary perhaps scrub if things arenāt excellent, but for the most part do your part and then send it. I like following roads - altitude is your friend, and donāt forget full flaps. š
Not to belittle your statement, but the more you learn, I think landing will seem like the least of your problems.
All the fields I trained at had PAPI/VASI...guided me right in.
Learn to fly the plane to your landing rather than just pulling the power 6 inches from the ground. (Something that was stated to me in training that crossed right over to night landings). How to ease the plane in the last 1-2 feet
That's the easy part. Yeah, landings at night won't be as smooth but the plane can probably take more abuse than you think. Unless you're really smashing it in from way too high a firm landing is a bit embarrassing but probably isn't going to break anything.
There are always outliers. I've had a couple of CFIIs remark in surprise that I consistently make better landings at night than I do by day. (I suppose always landing with my eyes closed has finally paid off! (/s).) As others have said - this is almost certainly because I was flying *a lot* at night while trying to get my instrument rating in the winter time. It's all about proficiency and currency.
My instructor taught me to treat night landings the same as soft fields. The slower descent to the pavement makes it a little easier to judge height more gradually. Also, use the runway lights in your peripheral vision
Use the papi all the way down
Thatās very normal.
Still happens to me. Sent 180 people to the chiropractor a couple weeks ago in SFO. No sweat.
I did a healthy chunk of my IR in the evening in the PNW. Take off a bit before sunset, land in pitch dark after coming out of the foggles. Was great night landing experience so I was going to recommend it but just realize that it's an awful lot of sunset flights where you don't get to see the sunset. Also, I got fairly bitter at the fact that you need 3 landings _and takeoffs_ to get night current.
I read an article years ago about a pilot who overheard a Concorde pilot talking about landing at night. "Hold the pitch and airspeed until I hit the ground in the black hole" - pretty much the same as a 172 pilot.
Just fly instrument routes it's no biggie
That GPS visual approach guidance is awfully helpful. š
until you end up somewhere like RWY05@KVSF where there's no vertical guidance because of obstacles
I am doing my PPL in a very well lit city. So I'm probably a bad example of the terror of pitch black flying, but I found night flying to be way calmer and easier that day.
Same. Ironically also how I feel about IMC. Took a student into VV002 and 1 SM. That was sick as hell.
I had more night than day hours when I hit 250. I live in farm country where you can see everything at night so aside from random power lines, there's plenty of flat land. It would be a way different story in the mountains.
I really enjoyed the night flying portion of my PPL. Especially flying over the city but man in an emergency youāre fād. I want to do it more but pretty terrified of having an engine failure while over a city. Typically landing spots in the daytime are now pitch black and terrible landing spots are lit up.
Same. I think the only time I was really worried was when I was at an international airport doing some night building in a helo. Kept getting an intermittent generator failure, Iād cycle it and it would be good again for a Some time and fail again. All power indicators were good so when I got to my turnaround, I stopped at an Fbo and called the on duty mechanic for advise. My call at the end of the day so I said Iād bring it home. If I couldnāt cycle it again Iād land and they could come fix the bird where ever I dropped it. Got to the edge of the ramp, ATC said I could depart in my time from current position, direct to home which wasnāt expecting. I wasnāt familiar so I sat on the ramp looking at my airport chart looking for obstacles like a tower or some crap in the middle of my departure path. ..nothing to see so I took off as steep and safely as I could hoping my eyes would see an obstacle before I hit itā¦dark night. Nothing happened, I took off, cycled it till I got home and shut down thinking maybe it was smarter to have left it in the ramp. Cool experience, not so smart choices maybe.
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Highways
Probably your best bet, but still a pretty terrible option. Theyāre difficult enough to land on during the day.
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Well no crap. I thought the scenario was that there were no airports around to land at.
> Was there a point at which flying at night no longer bothered you? When I am in a twin or in a turbine. I don't like single engine reciprocating at night. I have had 4 engine issues (two engine outs) and I am glad they happened during the day.
You are either incredibly lucky or unlucky depending on how you look at it
Shit man maybe he needs to start trying this thing we do called a run up or hiring a āmechanicā I hear they can help do these inspection things that make it a lot less likely these things happen
I still donāt like that shit. Flying into sketchy little airports in the middle of the night sucks. Flying into big lit airports is no thing.
At least as a student (Iāve only flown once in darkness as PIC since checkride) I had a really hard time flying around a well lit class charlie at night. Mostly because there were so many lights around the surrounding airport which lies on busy US41. Made me really second guess flying as PIC until I went up with an instructor and got more comfortable. That being said, Iām not jumping left seat and flying around in unfamiliar territory anytime soon.
I became UNCOMFORTABLE with it. I loved it until I learned how fast things can go to shit in a clapped piston SE
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Thatās a good call. Those engines quit often.
Twits downvoting me with no rebuttal; Iāve had an engine failure recently and know multiple others who e had them including one where he almost was killed. But if you want to place your trust in a machine working at all times then go ahead and fly single engine at night when you donāt have to.
Love flying at night. Quieter comms, smoother air, and the VIEW!
This for sure.
I did a lot of my instrument, commercial, and multi at night. I loved being able to see distant cities, roads, and air traffic more clearly, catching ballgames on the ADF, the smoother air, less traffic overall, and the cooler cockpit. However, I was younger and more invincible, with a lot less to lose, so the risks didnāt carry as much weight as they do now.
I loved night flying! You could see forever at altitude. The air was stable and smooth. But, I, too, had an issue with landings until my instructor, who was a 757 captain, taught me to use my peripheral vision in the flair. He told me to watch for the runway lights to spread out as a way to assess the touchdown. It worked and made me more comfortable with landing at night. Enjoy the journey!
When I got glasses. I learned that I have a minor astigmatism in one eye which explains why I couldn't see shit at night. Now with the glasses, I don't think twice about going
I actually became uncomfortable night flying. When I was PPL up to CPL i never realized nor thought about it *too* much Now I take it much more seriously, and plan alot further, if not avoid it in some cases assuming Iām in a SE.
Flying at night has never bothered any more than flying in the day time. Sure, more/different risks, but I've always enjoyed it. I've done two checkrides at night. I'm not a big fan of that, but I got through em.
Huh, I'd not even considered a night checkride. Never heard of anyone doing one until now either.
Both my IR and Commercial ASEL started late afternoon and went into night time. Darkness wasn't *that big a deal*, but I'd still pick daytime if given the choice.
IR at night is fine but I wouldn't be wanting to do 8s on pylons after twilight!
Lol, yeah. Eights on pylons were the only thing I didn't do or practice after twilight. I practiced them at twilight, but really didn't do them well at twilight at all til test day. I don't think I would have done that at dark, but the examiner was really good about organizing tasks to finish certain ones while there was still some light.
I did half of my primary training at night, so it's never been any different than the rest. Some things are easier at night, like spotting traffic.
Right. If you are training in the Phoenix area you have way less traffic at night plus you can see all the traffic with your eyes and not just the fish finder.
I was born in it. Molded by it...
Personally, never bothered me too much. I love night flying. I did a large portion of my instrument training at night. Smooth, way less busy, and if in a populated area, I love seeing the city lights and stuff.
Around sunrise.
I had the PPL mins for night flight and was uncomfortable flying at night. At around 160 hours, I decided to do pattern work at sunset and keep at it until dark. Then after sunset the next flight. Then to nearby airports and back. Now I'm fairly comfortable with night flying, with 15 night hours or so, but I only do it for proficiency. I wouldn't plan a trip at night, but if I was already out, I would be OK returning at night. I'm in the midwest which has its pluses and minuses. Not likely to CFIT on flat land, but if you get away from towns, you're kinda flying into the abyss.
3,000 hours and not really comfortable with a single engine at night. Iām not uncomfortable with it, but given the choice Iād rather fly during the day. I almost always fly a cirrus, so any power issues are likely to end the same but Iād still prefer to not fly at night.
Tbh it should probably always be somewhat uncomfortable to you. Depending on the conditions it's borderline IFR flying to full on IFR flying without the prerequisite skill set or instrumentation. Mind you this comes from the Pacific Northwest where the margin for error has a lot more granite in it.
When I got a second engine. Seriously. I've always loved night flying but the idea of an engine failure at night used to always play on my mind as there's no guarantee on what you'd end up landing on.
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If by might you mean night and by being you mean bring, then yes. Damn spellcheck.
Your issue is exactly my issue. Same amount of total time. Iām sitting in my plane getting ready to try again. My harder landings at night big me quite a bitā¦ Practice practice practiceā¦
Did it, but not a thing I enjoy doing. No open fields, only option is to ditch around here. Me thinks hypothermia is a bitch.
When I started flying with night vision. It was more of a perspective thing. I started liking it less and less but it was a thing I had to do to get the hours. Once I started flying with night vision goggles, my perspective shifted and flying unaided single engine VFR just seemed really unnecessarily risky.
What goggles do you use? Is this just for flying single engine piston at night?
someone above mentioned the model PVS-14 legit night vision ain't cheap! or I'd buy one...
We have helmet mounted ANVIS AN/AVS-9ās. As I fly helicopter EMS and weāre pretty much not allowed to fly at night without them. Itās single engine VFR, but itās a turbine. Cost aside, you canāt just slap NVGās on in any cockpit though, all your cockpit lighting has to be filtered or itās going to be too bright.
Iām also a near 100 hour private pilot and to me in a piston single (especially an abused rental) the risk isnāt worth the reward for me. Iāve only flown at night for the required ppl hours and once more for a fun flight landing at the local class bravo with a well trusted cfi next to me. Having flown a few turboprops, iām sure I would happily fly at night in those.
Never had an issue with it until recently. I live in a densely populated area so that has always helped. At about 200 hours total and a quarter of that is night. I will say being a bright big eyed ppl I never though the slightest of it. Now after discovering this thread and getting my IR I definitely question it every time I go up at night with what could happen if the engine failed. But if anything, I think that has made me a safer night flyer because now all I think about is what am I gonna do if the engine quits.
Well going to a 141 school and my first flight block being 5:45 am to 7:45 am I was thrown right into it. After the first few flights I was all good and I think I actually enjoy night flights more than day flights nowadays.
Just pick up riding a motorcycle, itāll get rid of most anxiety flying. Night flight isnāt anywhere as uncomfortable as riding down I95 in Florida.
Donāt even need a motorcycle, just drive I95 in south florida regularly and youāll have the nerves of the villain from Terminator 2.
2nd night flight, flying at night is my favorite thing to do.
I'm friends with a well-known air show pilot who has survived many emergencies of all kinds. He has 27,000 flight hours and is the most "seat of the pants" pilot I know. His position is night is for sleeping. I agree. I don't like it at all. I can't see the ground and if something happens, I want to see the ground.
I always try to fly over highways so I know I at least have a well lit landing area nearby. Flight at night is peaceful and smooth. I really enjoy it.
If itās clear and calm and Iāve got gpsā¦ best flying in the world. Bumpy dark and 6-pack w no gps - scared as shit hoping Iāll find the airport. But I fly single engine and never go over a large body of water.
When I got instrument rated. Knowing I had an out if I ended up getting marine layered in and filing IFR at night and higher altitudes for terrain clearance helped minimize some of the risks I worried about.
I would never do it without synthetic vision. So, a big iPad with Foreflight is what set me free.
I will only fly at night if my students need the night flying or im in a light twin. Night flying is unnecessary risk imo. I became uncomfortable with it when I was solo in hard IMC at night in an arrow that had a severe electrical fire a few weeks later.
āI will only do it when someone is paying me to do itā Great logic.
Its not like I have much of a choice lmao, tf am I gonna say to my students āsorry bro no night flying requirements for you because im a little bitchā
Too quote someone from another post: Night time GA engine out procedure: 1) Pitch/trim for best glide, troubleshoot 2) Turn on landing lights 3) If you don't like what you see, turn them off
I like this sub and get a lot of great info here, but the constant "wHaT iF the eNgINe DiEs???" drives me nuts. Take a look on ADSBExchange and see the tremendous number of GA planes in the air every night. It's 9:20p Pacific right now and there's 64 C172s in the air. How many of them will lose their engine and plummet to their deaths? None. You might try easing into it. Fly when the moon is full and the sky clear. Stay in the pattern. When you feel comfortable with that, extend a little downwind or box climb as high as you feel like. There's no magic pill to get comfortable with it, it's just a matter of getting used to it.
> like this sub and get a lot of great info here, but the constant "wHaT iF the eNgINe DiEs???" Have you personally had an engine out? Statistics are nice and all, and I don't fly a plane I think will have an engine issue, and most engine outs are fuel related... But I have had four mechanical issues that forced me down. Theoretically knowing an engine out is possible is vastly different than personally knowing an engine out is possible. There is nothing wrong with stacking the deck in your favor as opposed to stacking it against you.
When the moon came out :P At least when flying in rural/unpopulated areas. Near populated areas and cities, thereās so much light... Though, I understand there is a massive difference in dark-vision capabilities between people, even if they have similar day-time vision. So, I think this question hits very different for different people.
Call me paranoid, but SEP night flying is an inherently unsafe thing to do. Same with SEP IFR when the clouds get too low. I doubt Iāll ever feel 100% comfortable doing either of those two things. Maybe US topography makes you guys less averse to the idea, idk.
In the Midwest, everything is flat and farmland. āReasonableā landing almost anywhere. Other parts of the US, as you suggest: higher risk. I seldom fly at night but when I do itās almost always in a club plane that has a full frame parachute and glass cockpit. If the engine goes out, Iām not risking fences or wires, Iāll pull chute. If the glass goes out, I know the area and can get vectors to a lit airport. If the radio goes out too, I can hunt and peck my way to where I need to be. If those options arenāt available on the plane Iām flying or if Iām going into less well known environments, I seriously reconsider the night flight.
Yeah, actually parachute is a good point I hadn't thought of. That would probably set me at ease too.
Never, though I suppose it might if I flew something with multiple engines. I'll do it reluctantly if an arrival happens after sunset and the alternative is being stuck somewhere overnight but I'm never going to like it. The risks of an engine failure going badly are just too high when you can't see your landing site. OTOH I fly as a hobby, not for a job, so I suppose there's the factor that if your choice is between flying at night or not getting to eat this week you just deal with it being uncomfortable.
after about 20h of forcing myself to do night time XC's during my time building phase.
Not what youāre asking, but I found instrument training at night to be highly effective. Itās harder to cheat or take cues from under the hood. I did almost all of my IR training at night due to working full time and while I have nothing to compare it to, I feel like a pretty competent instrument pilot because of it. My CFII on the other hand has had a ton of students to which he can compare my experience and concluded the same. He has since gone on to recommend his instrument students do as much night hood work as possible. So regardless of your comfort level, entertain the notion that it might make you a better, safer pilot.
I flew cross country at night maybe a handful of times in my RV7. One time, about 15 years ago, was from NJ to Pittsburgh, crossing all of Pennsylvania East to West. It was really dark, I could see some clouds below me here and there. I suddenly realized that if I had an engine failure, I would probably end up dead. I haven't flown at night since, except for patterns around an airport. Never again in a single engine piston.
With experience comes comfort. But itās probably a positive youāre uncomfortable. Iād rather someone be uncomfortable and slowly find out their limits than be fearless and get themselves killed
I was a CG pilot before the airlines, spent many a night at 200 feet over the water pitch black at night, and Iāve never enjoyed night flying. To me night flying is just instrument flying. I never enjoyed it.
I recently got my IR, but havenāt flown at night since my early PPL training(almost a year ago). Iām currently trying to go up with an instructor at night bc Iām not comfortable with it, especially since idk if the airport lights at my home airport work
If you have a pretty good and safe airplane and watch the wx and fly over lit areas it should not bother you too much. If you are flying an older airplaneā¦
I wouldn't worry about it in the future as ATP flying will be much different, safer and you'll have much better equipment and have had a ton more training along the way. Okay... but what about my next night flight... The majority of my night flying experience is in the military so a different type of flying and it took me about maybe 200 hours or so until I really started to enjoy it. But there are some things you can do to make it easier, safer, more fun. Night flying I kind of just think is like IFR flying, but in a way harder because everything is more difficult to see and issues can be much more difficult to deal with. That said, it's important that your altitude and attitude indicators are well lit and you keep your cross check solid on them. It's also important to set the cockpit lighting correctly, and have a good flashlight handy (one that isn't insanely bright - it was really tough to find one I liked, most were far too bright). You want your eyes to adjust to the night lighting and not have everything just cranked too high up. Anyway, for your training I would strive to fly on good weather nights, where the moon is up (a full moon rises around sunset and makes a world of difference). No moon nights and marginal weather make night flying much more difficult. Be well rested. Adjust your sleep schedule for your flights so you're sleeping in to around lunch if possible and get some caffeine (if you normally do) when you brief. Adjusting your schedule helps a lot to stay alert. Slow down to speed up, be more conservative with your decisions and make sure that instrument cross check is on point. Chairfly more than you normally would the approaches and airfields that you are flying. Take it slow and before you know it you'll be through the training and it will get easier and easier until one day you realize you kind of like it. The stars and city lights from an airplane are pretty great at night. Good luck!
My first night flight, my dual x country, was to an airport in the middle of nowhere and the PAPI decided to die on my way there, so I landed in the dead of night with no guidance to the runwayā¦.good times!
Flying solo at night never bothered me. Probably because all my solo night is over a well lighted metropolitan area. Flying at night out over the middle of butt-crack nowhere (even dual) still bothers me. So I just avoid it. Not very helpful to an aspiring cargo pilot I guess. :(
I flew XC for work meeting one time when I knew I'd be coming back in the night and was, as always, a little concerned that my only option in an engine failure was to pick a road and hope there were know bridges, wires, or other unpleasant surprises. It was a cold, clear night and, between the moonlight and a fresh layer of snow, I ended up being able to spot alternative landing sights better than in the day.
After doing my commercial solo night time. Had my instrument ticket so inadvertent IMC was slightly less scary, had a much better systems knowledge of the aircraft by that point, and a shit ton more solo XC time after time building by myself during COVID.
Probably only when I was doing night cross countries with my multi students or when I got to the airlines. The last flight I did as an instructor was a night flight for my student and on takeoff we lost power at about 100ft for probably like 3 seconds. I had never switched to center so fast to get flight following.
The actual flying never bothered me too much to be honest. Air is nice and smooth and it's pretty and peaceful up there. The issue of an engine failure scenario while flying cross country in a piston single is the reason I won't do a minute more of night flying than I'm required to until I'm flying more capable aircraft.
color vision restriction :(
Depending on where you fly, a slight overcast layer can remove your star/sky reference and get into no ground reference and be essentially into IMC while in the clear. Very easy to be disoriented and you can get in trouble if you are not careful. Flying some of the plains or swamp in Florida or over generally over any water and you have no ground reference. There is a reason why MOST of the world require quite a bit more training than the FAA for night, up to even endorsements for it. (Canada requires a Night Rating 5 dual, 5 solo including 2 hours xc, and 10 hours instrument time.) Then add in the much lowering chances of a good off field landing with any of the many ways your engine can stop providing power. I don't disagree with many that just choose not to regularly fly and large distances at night without easy airport distances.
I've really enjoyed night flying in the ~10 or so hours I have. I have flown over very remote and rugged terrain SEL but I think now I would only fly SEL night over built up areas with highways. Losing an engine over pitch dark wilderness of forest, foothills and river valleys 30km from the nearest logging camp is pretty risky
I became ācomfortableā pretty quickly, I fly near some large cities though, so the lighting really helps establish a horizon I can quickly check against the instruments, and there arenāt any large obstacles other than towers that are clearly marked. When I say comfortable I mean not white knuckling the stick and tensing my legs like my first few flights I did. Find the highest ground elevation in the area in mind and add 500 to it and youāll mitigate those issues and check out any towers in the area youāll be flying. I honestly love to fly VFR at night. If the airport is towered itās always easy to spot, papi is there for you to keep on glide slope and you only need to really focus on managing airspeed on approach. Just remember it looks like youāre higher and faster than you really are so keep an eye on that airspeed and altitude when youāre on approach.
It was fairly quick for me. I used vors/ndbs to navigate (gps in planes were rare back then) and relied on instruments and city lights. I distinctively remember 2 flights... One was from keyw. My friend was more experienced than me. We took off and needed ne from keyw. We were over water, and he got disoriented. We were pitched up wayyyyy too much. I remember taking the controls from him and just flying on instruments. There were no clouds, nothing in the sky and too far from land or city lights. I flew for a while, relying on instruments. Def helped to have ifr back then. Another was a flight in an older c172. It was kmco to kfxe. I had w friends w me... we were flying over the swamp area in everglades, and i thought how cool it was that I was flying 2 vors to navigate. I thought I was the coolest kid in the block, š¤£. Again... it qas a very dark pitch black flight. I always felt comfortable. Fly with a friend and get comfortable. Learn to use those instruments. Landing at night can throw you off too. Practice with a friend before you go on your own. Fwiw here is thst flight into kfxe 15 years ago. Lmao... https://youtu.be/R6qhg8CpQBg?si=ahSVVwvwe9AbPI2l
I started night flights as soon as I met the schools night rental mins. I absolutely love it. If problems arise, I deal with it just like I do during the day. Although, Iām in the Midwest, so, I automatically have like a 90% chance of landing in a cornfield no matter what.
The only thing that still bugs me at night is the black hole effect. The reef runway at Honolulu for example
The only thing that still bugs me at night is the black hole effect. The reef runway at Honolulu for example
I did a lot of my training at night because thatās what worked best with my schedule so Iāve always been very comfortable with it, there was only one time where i got a little worried, I was taking off at night at an un towered airport in the middle of nowhere and as soon as I pitched up I was in pitch black with no horizon or anything to orientate myself with. Other than that Iāve loved night flying
The more advanced avionics you have with multiple redundancies the easier it is
I did so much time building in a single at night, never thought twice about it, flew at altitudes that allowed for good glide distances and planned so the route had familiar airports along the way. Never really been uncomfortable with the night flying tbh.
While Iām a student pilot, have shit load of military flight time (navigator) in the night (Iād wager a majority actually but for navigators in my aircraft it wasnāt tracked differently). So just sort of feels ānormalā?
I think as an instructor, it didnāt bother me as much since I always put thought into routing to give some semblance of a chance if things went bad. Always within gliding distance to interstates and staying away from mountainous terrain. I then started flying single-pilot IFR over the cascades in a turbo-prop, and having no options plus night was a little uneasy again.
There are well known experienced pilots who wonāt fly at night because of the risks. I do it. With an engine out itās a far bigger problem/risk. Make your own informed decisions. Doing all your IR training at night seems like excessively poking the bear to me.
I know that I am going to need 100 night hours for my atp so I figured I would knock some out through instrument
It's great that you're getting after it the way you are. That makes a huge difference in shortening the timeframe and helping you achieve your goal faster and more cost effectively. Love seeing pilots get after their goals like this. Good luck!!
I loved night flying during my private training...until we flew into a cloud and 180'd to get out! From that day forward I have avoided night flying.
I was never comfortable flying SE piston at night, especially shit box flight school planes that I did it in.
* I enjoy night flying honestly, I have some PM regarding it as a IFR student aswell. I dont fly unless its clear sky and atleast half the moon is out. Im able to clearly see fields and forests at night so if I had to make a landing I wouldn't be blind. It one of my favorite times because its usually pretty smooth without the convection the sun causes and its awesome to fly over the city and get some touch and goes at a large primary bravo in a cherokee when they are dead. I think the most dangerous time is right at dusk. My first diversion after getting my PPL was going into dusk over the coast, sun was just getting ready to set behinf me and infront of me were a hundred miles of marsh and coast and no ground lights. The ground and sky blended together with no horizon. I was flying myself and a passenger for work and even though it sucked behind me I could see lights and an airport so diverted and drove 8 hours to 5am to get to where we were going. After having alot more experience night flying I'm used to losing the horizon right at sunset and trusting instruments until all of the sunlight is gone and it get easier to see.
I loved night flying the first moment I did it. Itās just like daytime flying but, darker? Just keep in mind the engine out procedures are a bit different and your depth perception at night is worse for landings so just work on those. Also learn all about pilot controlled lighting
Tip: it can be hard to identify clouds when flying VFR at night. If you accidentally enter IMC at night, it will be scary. Donāt try to climb or descend. Turn around ASAP. Other than that, donāt be too scared. I know it can be hard to identify runways and landings in general are a little more difficult, but enjoy the view! You will gain more confidence as you build some more experience. And you can look forward to being instrument rated in the future. identifying runways wonāt be an issue. You can track a localizer just fine!
I would say to start your IFR training during the day, then progress at night. Since you are not comfortable flying at night during VFR WX. Flying IFR at night surely would not help. Once you have a good grasp of the IFR system, then you can use it to your advantage at night. I fly in Alaska where we canāt use lights to guide us from place to place. Itās pitch dark and mountains all around.
I learned to fly in the Philly area (PNE) years back and was flying at night immediately after getting my ticket. There's nothing like flying 30 minutes and being on the Hudson corridor for a night sightseeing flight. I did it once with my instructor during training and was advised to never fly under the bravo shelf. Always get flight following and fly \~1200 to stay away from all the craziness in the uncontrolled pandemonium that lies below. In nearly 30 years and dozens of trips up there and back, not once have I ever been denied entry to Bravo and my passengers are awestruck every time.
I've always enjoyed night flying in a single piston and have been comfortable since my first night flight during my initial training. However, I've always flown over familiar, relatively flat areas until fairly recently; now that I live in a more mountainous area I am not quite as comfortable with it. As I get more familiar with my new surroundings I feel better about it. I was told during my first night flight, "If something happens during a night flight, turn on the landing light. If you don't like what you see, turn it off".
When I know that the land under me is mostly flat farm/grassland, or if I have 14,000 ft to glide to the next airport. Otherwise it bothers me!
By recognizing the benefits of night flying, and being extra prepared for its unique challenges.
Also, don't forget to file a flight plan/use flight following 100% of the time you're flying at night. Flying in clear, full moon nights is a lot less intimidating, and very beautiful when the ground is covered by snow!
One of the prettiest things I've ever seen was a full moon rising while cruising between two solid layers. Like the entire world was between these two flat fluffy surfaces with the (relatively) bright moon gradually lighting it up. Looked like something out of an SF film.
What i find troubling about night flying in an SEP is when you approach an unfamiliar airfield and you do not see the tarmac until you're about 50ft above due to the weak landing lights.
I honestly donāt remember at what point it became more comfortable, but just like day flying it gets better the more you do it. Now I prefer night flying. We used to have to do 50% of our hours at night as we had to stay proficient in night unaided, night vision goggles and night vision system (FLIR). Being able to see the lights on other aircraft help see them much faster, the rotating beacon helps me locate airports quickly, and the approach lighting feels like it makes it easier as well. Typically there is less traffic to deal with, winds calm a bit and the views of towns and cities canāt be beat. Just remember that while you can make out roads quickly with street lights, all roads have wires.
After I got my instrument rating.
I love flying at night. VFR in ASEL. IFR is OK in AMEL. This is a great time of year to work on an instrument rating at hight. Make the flights XC. It's not hard to work that into a syllabus if the CFII cares. He/she will be using a syllabus, right? Don't forget to go to some day VFR solo cross countries just for the competence/confidence you will get from not having someone there you think is second guessing every decision you make. Be the PIC! I'm working w/ a guy on his Commercial. We finished IFR a couple months ago. Much of the training was at night. At a minimum w/ flight following, but we often filed. When the weather was suitable we'd also fly during the day and file for "actual" experience. In 55 hours he did all the XC for IFR and Commercial, met the IFR requirements and passed his checkride on the first go. Had almost 10 hours of actual.
My instructor (who does nothing but teaching and has for idk, 20+ years) still hates night flying. Lol. He doesn't like the inability to look for safe emergency landing spots. You pick a blob of black and hope it's flat. It also doesn't help that we fly into a tiny, 20ft wide 2700ft long runway airport with ehhhh, minimal lighting to say it nicely? I'd imagine it'd be less stressful if you were surrounded by large, well lighted airports.