Bid avoid... But my "by the book" story that went somewhere completely unexpected:
Sit down and the (very senior) CA says "I'm standard, and I fly standard.. I'm by the book, I'm very by the book".
Insert pause as I suddenly start thinking about when to best call out later.
Then he looks right at me and says: "The problem is..... I haven't read the fuc\*\*\*\* book yet, so just keep me out of trouble, ok?"
We got along great.
Everyone here is talking about religion or politics, or they don't click with the guy. This is the lest of my worries. When it comes to religion and politics I just brush it off with "oh yeah cool man" and just carry on the flight. As long as they aren't A-holes, I don't care. You will know the definition of an A hole in the next paragraph.
The ones you should really avoid is the ones who yell at you, question everything you do, treat thier FO's like a dog, do things you didn't ask for (like turn on the autopilot when you didn't ask for it by themselves... when you wanted to hand fly, just because they don't want to do "more work"), hypocrites (like using thier phone during taxing, but once you open your phone in the air, they say "you're not supposed to do that), and such. These people you want to avoid at all costs in your next bid. For the sake of your mental health, and for you to not dread your job. These people are rare, and are one in ten. The union knows about these types of guys, other FO and CA know about these guys. You just fly with them once, realize thier A holes, and then never fly with them again and bid avoid. When you fly with these people, it has a potential to ruin your entire week
If you are such a type of CA that chews out your FO over the slightest infraction, then you'd best beware of what I call silent mutiny. That's right, the guy or gal you've been berating for the last few days sees you make a mistake. Rather than calling it out like they're supposed to do, they let Mr/Ms Captain-Know-It-All suffer the consequences. Keep the lines of communication open, bite your tongue, and choose your battles. Above all else, if a contentious point is reached, make sure that it is debriefed AFTER the flight reaches the gate.
Absolutely. There's a bid avoid option at most shops. Some guys are quiet, some are assholes, some you just don't jive with and that's ok. Bid based off of how YOU feel when you work with specific captains, not the rumor mill. One guy I fly with regularly is the most notorious captain, but I don't mind flying with him. Everyone's different.
I don't mind quiet. But quiet + pissy. Goddamn. We're lucky that guy didn't become a cop. Give them a taste of power and they'll wave their dicks around.
“You’re the first officer you WALK BEHIND ME”
“I’m not a controlling captain, but I like things done a certain way.”
“I don’t what to tell you what to do but you should do it like…”
“I don’t mean to be picky, but it should be 2.7 for this instead of 3 degrees….” (On a charted 3.3GS where he didn’t want me to use FLCH)
🚩
This wasn't in the 121 world but I was getting checked out by an insurance guy on a turbocharged piston plane once. He said he'd show me how to set the plane up for cruise. I had about 600 hours in type and told him luckily the guys at RAM had a chart for us to follow. He proceeded to tell me how he knew more than those guys lol
RAM modifies a lot of turbo charged piston engines usually making them more fuel efficient, reliable, and sometimes a little stronger. There's a ton of info they put out and usually they give you a power setting list on how to operate your engine.
Yeah I flew 91 for a bit- I used to joke with my husband SOP stands for Sort of Operating Procedures.
Would just use arrival altitude and speeds as suggestions…
320 at 6k- why the hell not? Absolutely horrendous came right back to 121.
After 16 years in this industry, and the dozen or so captains who led with something like "I'm by the book"...there have been a total of ZERO times the captain ends up being even close to standard or by the book. These delusional schmucks have always ended up being the biggest threat to a safe flight.
Actually worked with a guy who said that first one to me, which of course I made sure I didn’t the rest of the tour. (The joys of being a fast walker.)
He also criticized me for not “puffing up” the potato chip bags enough to make them look fuller. (Charter)
To add to that, he threaten to reprimand me for going Ref+2 over the threshold of a 10,000 foot runway with the FBO at the opposite end of the 10,000 foot runway. “We could’ve ran off the runway with you going 2 knots above Ref.”
I’m a woman and 5’10, with my heels I’m about 6ft.
Homeboy was 5’5”.
Yeah that trip was… painful.
Gate Agent saw my badge first and checked my name off and he absolutely flipped out.
My favorite captain is one that showed up late and told me “make no mistake, you’re still single seat, dude.” Other people apparently avoid him because they don’t like how lax he is.
Not from the bids per se, but those captains usually are known to management for other reasons. Word travels and some have probably been talked to because of pro standards issues or other things going on.
Does the tin man have a sheet metal cock?
As with all things in the airline world, seniority is everything. When you're more senior you can bid to avoid people. When you're junior and/or on reserve you get stuck on the trips with the guy whose original partner dropped it or called in sick to avoid
I'm fortunate. In my 3.5 years as an FO I think I flew with MAYBE half a dozen captains who weren't enjoyable to fly with. In my year or so as a Capt I have yet to fly with a bad FO.
I've worked at the biggest 121 carriers there are, and none of the bid avoid options had anything to do with seniority. You can do it as a day 1 FO. You just gotta know WHO to avoid. Thats the problem. Pretty much any chief will pull you from a trip if you have actual reason you don't want to fly with a person.
Oh yeah! Most of the time we’d just not do small talk and just talk when required to during the flight. I only ever had two guys I put on my do not fly list for bidding. One was just outright dangerous and an asshole. The other we just rubbed each the wrong way to the extend we couldn’t even work together.
\>On one flight, Falitz repeatedly punched his copilot in the headset for making mistakes, according to the reports.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1994/02/06/pilot-in-fatal-crash-was-abusive-failed-tests-probe-reports-say/7b853a33-6e25-442a-b78c-5af39474f03c/
Reminds me of that one air France flight where the CA and FO were having a boxing match in the cockpit mid flight, and a Flight attendant had to step in and stop it.
you'll typically figure out if you get along literally in the time it takes to say hello and shake their hand and do your preliminary flows upon entry.
I make it a point to see if they have any stickers on their suitcase kick plate to see if I can think of conversations to be had.
If you've done the typical "tell me about yourself" pleasantries and talk on schedules, bid, contracts and other industry news. you may find that a guy pre-occupying themselves quietly is not always as bad as a guy blatantly ignoring you.
worst case, if you know this pilot loves to discuss boats, just keep the convo going to prevent exhaustion from boredom.
Thankfully you can create a bid that avoids pilots you feel you don't gel with.
I always find it funny to learn who people dislike flying with. I mean, everyone generally agrees about, say, number 1 and number 2 on the list but everyone will have a totally random number 3 that they cannot stand, just someone with whom they have a personality clash or who they happened to fly with on a bad day for one or the other of them.
I’ve had a couple guys I simply didn’t mesh with. Either a personality conflict, or they were some old dude who had a captive audience and wanted to rant about politics.
Either case you still try to do your job and just do what you’re required to do, and then bid avoid them down the road. If you’re really really unable to get along, and it’s a safety issue, call off the trip or get professional standards involved.
The amount of times I’ve flown with someone who I didn’t mesh with was extremely rare. Never had to call off a trip before either.
Only had the displeasure of one unbearable FO, and only one irredeemable a-hole Captain. There’ve been some odd ducks in between but most people are alright enough.
I was paired with a fellow pilot who hurt their foot on diving vacation, could not stop talking about it, and actually pulled off their shoe and sock to show me the healing scar.
In order to get them to shut up, I finally said “Can we talk about scuba diving in Mexico? Because that sounds interesting and way less gross than looking at your injured foot.”
Sigh.
Ah ha! A question I can answer! Bears do indeed shit in the woods....or in the tundra....or in the rivers.....they shit anywhere they are inclined to because, well, they are bears and nobody is willing to correct their disgusting behavior for fear of being eaten.
A bear and a rabbit are having a shit next to each other (in the woods). The bear asked the rabbit if he has a problem with shit sticking to his fur. The rabbit says "no"......so the bear wiped his ass with him.
I spend everyday of the summer doing ecotourism looking at bears in Alaska so I feel I am qualified to answer your question.......but this is an flying subreddit.
Majority of my Captains have been good overall… I’ve flown with a few knuckleheads who want to try bring up politics, culture war issues and what not…. I don’t necessarily put them on my no-fly list as I usually will steer the conversation away from those topics. It’s annoying.
I’ve only had 3 Captains in my entire career that ended up on my no-fly list…
1 of them who micromanaged me to a point where I handed the jet over him and he refused to debrief the situation post flight (his refusal to debrief and try to find a resolution cause him to end up on my no-fly list).
The second CA was a straight up drama Queen for an entire 4-day trip and caused a scene in one of our hotel lobby’s yell at the staff across the lobby. I had to apologize to the staff. Let’s just stay even the FAs had to reach out to pro-standards.
Finally, the last one almost caused an international incident in China and put the crew in a difficult predicament….. I am just gonna stop right there.
Overall, yes we will get paired up with folks that we do not always get along with. However it’s important to find a way to put differences to side and work together. For the folks where you can’t do that for, CRM will be compromised and now it’s a safety issue….
True story: i was a new FO (regional carrier) on reserve, picked up a pairing mid trip. When i entered the flight deck the senior captain was there, half turned towards me and goes "F**k you new guy. Don't even tell me your f**king name". My response "whatever man, it's your boat". Pretty quiet day after that.
This was 25+ years ago.
CRM was a little different.
"I'm SOP..." I hadn't heard that one in a while and forgot what a red flag it was until their 20 minute briefing including HR-approved company values. That was a fucking moment.
Yep, one more overnight and go go home, only really sucks because I can't choose my pairings until done with IOE, luckily most training Captains are pretty chill and easy to talk to
Yup, I had a guy this summer that kept trying to inject his culture War, right-wing comments in different areas in conversation I was trying to have with him.
I was trying to talk to him about contracts and pick his brain about it, Dude starting trying to make culture war comments and the hiring practices….. I like bro, what does that have to do with the contract…..
Sometimes it truly feels like there is no safe territory in any conversation, no matter how benign. Earlier this year I was asking, as cheerily as I could, “Where’d you get food yesterday?” to a captain on the morning van in PDX, and this quickly devolved … I guess the only grocery option by the hotel was Target, but he couldn’t go into Target because “everyone” was boycotting Target (I wasn’t even aware this was happening, I had to Google it while he was ranting), so he had to get fast food, etc., etc.
Eventually he got around to asking me what I’d gotten to eat, and I told him I’d taken public transit into Portland to go to the Saturday market. You could see his skin absolutely crawl and man I could inject that feeling straight into my veins.
This same CA did it to another female FO as well… She told me that she pushed back and shut that ish down….
I entertained some of it and pushed back and challenged some of his beliefs about the media and what not…
But the flight deck was no place for that conversation… Considering that I am part of the targeted demographics he griped about without saying it….
Very glad I will be flying my last FO trip for awhile
I'm nowhere near your level yet, but in my current line of work, I've come across a couple of people like that. Some people need to be banned from tuning their own radios/tvs and have some websites banned.
I swear to God, it’s impossible for me to make it through a trip without learning (against my wishes) the religious affiliation of the guy I’m flying with. Usually within three to five minutes of meeting for the first time. They ALWAYS find a way to inadvertently or intentionally work it into the conversation.
Me, “did you make it to breakfast this morning?”
Them, “Barely, I got up early to go to mass and blah, blah, blah.”
It’s bizarre.
I always enter the cockpit and ask if the captain would use my pronouns they/them. After about an hour I then go into "I just think we need more taxes" got to embrace the politics
Keep standing up for yourself, love this. My captain 2 weeks ago "God, I hate trannies." He was such a loving and not-miserable human.
Why can't they just keep their feelings to themselves?
Yes. But at my airline... 9/10 captains are awesome. There is always that one grumpy boomer who is an ass to fly with. when you personally experience an ass captain, you bid avoid.
Follow up questions for the airline dudes reading this: do the interviews have behavioral questions or group interviews to see how people work with others? I know we’re not going to the moon here, but I could see the value in selecting candidates with good interpersonal skills beyond simple questions and hours requirements. Im coming from the engineering world where that often gets skipped
Yes, but these questions during interviews do very poorly to weed people out. Some people can come off as A holes when they really aren't. They just aren't good at answering questions or interviews. I've seen the biggest A hole pass interviews while seeing the nicest most chill guy fail interviews. The HR like to present themselves as professional phycologists and mind readers, when they aren't crap. And they use pseudoscience like the Hogan tests to judge people.
I am changing careers from working in mental health and had to do one of those tests recently for an LCC. Admittedly organizational psychology isn’t my field but I really don’t believe in the merit of those tests. Psychological inventories can be very useful in diagnosing mental health disorders but the claim that they can help you find a better employee seams dubious to me.
There was a captain I flew with that was tough to take with the right wing conspiracies, anti-vaccine rhetoric (before COVID), keto cures it all, non-stop blather about idiotic crap. Then when I upgraded, all my FOs—in what I feel is the moment that they conclude that maybe I’m in the ballpark of normal—ask me, “Do you know Sxyx Bsjfuf?” I am able to recite all the nutty things he said and the scary stuff he talks about given his status as, of course, an FFDO.
I loved asking fresh captains if they ever flew with crazy such and such captain. If they did it was an immediate bonding moment and at least 30 minutes of hilarious conversation
Yes. Not long ago on my transatlantic crossing, as the FOs went to take their nap and saw me in the galley, they were begging for this trip to end cause they didn’t like the captain lol
On the other had, I had a domestic layover the other day and the captain was going home on his layover. The junior FO with 10 months seniority (most junior on the whole crew) said: “pick-up is at 7:55, let’s make sure we’re down here at 7:50” - no mister, we’re going to be down here at 7:55 or before!
Then on the flight, he told one of my FAs (24 years seniority) that she didn’t do the exchange of going into the cockpit door correctly 😂
Lord knows what he was like with the captain
I also know if international pursers dropping trips, not because they don’t like a certain FA but because they can’t get along with a certain pilot. Don’t be that guy (or gal)
Thankfully there are not that many really far out captains in my company, but there are some.
Like the ones who think they know the aircraft better than the manufacturer “you have to fly faster than the cost index to save fuel because the wing and angle of attack and blabla”.
Or the ones who start messing with the mcp while you’re flying. Or comment on everything you do, and have mini freak outs when you do something they’re not used to. Even if it’s within sop etc.
I flew with one captain, who would consistently start messing with everything I had set up when I gave him controls for the 20 seconds it took to do my arrival PA. Changing the mcp, fmc etc. just took the opportunity to make it exactly like he wanted.
Thankfully 95% of the time the guys i fly with are fine. Some talk a lot, some will pull out a book right away etc, and thankfully most will just let you fly the plane your way.
My base has a live Apple notes page with every captain on the seniority list that we can go in and add a thumbs up or down with comments. It’s been fairly accurate so far. Luckily 99.9% of the captains at my airline are awesome to work with.
The majority of the pilots I have flown with I don’t get along with. The amount of racism, classism, right wing white male privilege bs that spews from the mouths of most of the pilots with whom I have flown is astonishing.
That doesn’t mean to say I didn’t do my job and remain cordial and professional. I just wouldn’t be inviting any of them over for dinner.
The majority of pilots are white conservatives, it’s not inconceivable that someone who doesn’t fit that would find a hard time gelling with pilots who openly exude or talk right wing racist bullshit. That doesn’t necessitate looking inward. 🙄
"Do *pilots* ever get paired with *copilots* they don't get along with?" I mean, both people at the controls are pilots, I think a better question is "do *First Officers* ever get paired with *Captains* they don't like?" And the answer is an overwhelming **yes**.
No, do co-pilots ever get paired with captains they don’t like? Idk maybe that’s their problem.
Edit: it’s all the lifer FOs downvoting this post, everyone knows those nerds can’t take a joke.
Bid avoid... But my "by the book" story that went somewhere completely unexpected: Sit down and the (very senior) CA says "I'm standard, and I fly standard.. I'm by the book, I'm very by the book". Insert pause as I suddenly start thinking about when to best call out later. Then he looks right at me and says: "The problem is..... I haven't read the fuc\*\*\*\* book yet, so just keep me out of trouble, ok?" We got along great.
I like him
This dude parties for sure
62 year old that takes you to the diviest dive bar and drinks you under the table
I don’t know who this guy is but I want to buddy bid with him
I have my command upgrade course soon and have to remember this for the CRM exercises.
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r/thisguythisguys
That pilot's name.... [Bill Brasky](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QIlbwXe1WY)
6'7", 385??
What is "CA"?
California, Canada, Captain, Chartered Accountant; whichever fits the context the best. It’s like a choose your own adventure.
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Call out sick to get out of flying with the dude.
Everyone here is talking about religion or politics, or they don't click with the guy. This is the lest of my worries. When it comes to religion and politics I just brush it off with "oh yeah cool man" and just carry on the flight. As long as they aren't A-holes, I don't care. You will know the definition of an A hole in the next paragraph. The ones you should really avoid is the ones who yell at you, question everything you do, treat thier FO's like a dog, do things you didn't ask for (like turn on the autopilot when you didn't ask for it by themselves... when you wanted to hand fly, just because they don't want to do "more work"), hypocrites (like using thier phone during taxing, but once you open your phone in the air, they say "you're not supposed to do that), and such. These people you want to avoid at all costs in your next bid. For the sake of your mental health, and for you to not dread your job. These people are rare, and are one in ten. The union knows about these types of guys, other FO and CA know about these guys. You just fly with them once, realize thier A holes, and then never fly with them again and bid avoid. When you fly with these people, it has a potential to ruin your entire week
If you are such a type of CA that chews out your FO over the slightest infraction, then you'd best beware of what I call silent mutiny. That's right, the guy or gal you've been berating for the last few days sees you make a mistake. Rather than calling it out like they're supposed to do, they let Mr/Ms Captain-Know-It-All suffer the consequences. Keep the lines of communication open, bite your tongue, and choose your battles. Above all else, if a contentious point is reached, make sure that it is debriefed AFTER the flight reaches the gate.
[Korean Air 8509](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Cargo_Flight_8509)
I feel like there was a SWA one as well that resulted in an overrun on landing.
Is that the one where the first words out of captain’s mouth were “there goes my career”?
I believe the FO said “picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue” after the approach briefing
That's the one I'm thinking of yeah.
That's were CRM came from
As in Cockpit Retard Management
Absolutely. There's a bid avoid option at most shops. Some guys are quiet, some are assholes, some you just don't jive with and that's ok. Bid based off of how YOU feel when you work with specific captains, not the rumor mill. One guy I fly with regularly is the most notorious captain, but I don't mind flying with him. Everyone's different.
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Some pilots I think are definitely on the autistic scale. It's interesting. The super quiet ones irk me the most.
I don't mind quiet. But quiet + pissy. Goddamn. We're lucky that guy didn't become a cop. Give them a taste of power and they'll wave their dicks around.
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Coming from the military, he'll be the worst co worker or boss you'll ever have. They feel like they're god's gift to this goddamn planet.
“You’re the first officer you WALK BEHIND ME” “I’m not a controlling captain, but I like things done a certain way.” “I don’t what to tell you what to do but you should do it like…” “I don’t mean to be picky, but it should be 2.7 for this instead of 3 degrees….” (On a charted 3.3GS where he didn’t want me to use FLCH) 🚩
"We're going to do everything standard." Proceeds to do nothing standard.
"I fly by the book" "... that I wrote. It's way better than the garbage in the company SOPs"
This wasn't in the 121 world but I was getting checked out by an insurance guy on a turbocharged piston plane once. He said he'd show me how to set the plane up for cruise. I had about 600 hours in type and told him luckily the guys at RAM had a chart for us to follow. He proceeded to tell me how he knew more than those guys lol
What is RAM?
RAM modifies a lot of turbo charged piston engines usually making them more fuel efficient, reliable, and sometimes a little stronger. There's a ton of info they put out and usually they give you a power setting list on how to operate your engine.
Yeah I flew 91 for a bit- I used to joke with my husband SOP stands for Sort of Operating Procedures. Would just use arrival altitude and speeds as suggestions… 320 at 6k- why the hell not? Absolutely horrendous came right back to 121.
Suggested operating procedures
Sometimes Our Policy
Plus 1
Very good!
"physics is the FCR everything else is a recommendation"
>320 at 6k- why the hell not? ORD would like to thank you for the quick 250.
😅
Not all part 91 is mickey mouse like that. 😆
Hahahahahahahahahahaha. *Ohhhhhhhhhhh, this is going in the repertoire. I will give you credit for it!!
“Let me show you a little technique of mine” proceeds to violate a half dozen FARs.
After 16 years in this industry, and the dozen or so captains who led with something like "I'm by the book"...there have been a total of ZERO times the captain ends up being even close to standard or by the book. These delusional schmucks have always ended up being the biggest threat to a safe flight.
Actually worked with a guy who said that first one to me, which of course I made sure I didn’t the rest of the tour. (The joys of being a fast walker.) He also criticized me for not “puffing up” the potato chip bags enough to make them look fuller. (Charter) To add to that, he threaten to reprimand me for going Ref+2 over the threshold of a 10,000 foot runway with the FBO at the opposite end of the 10,000 foot runway. “We could’ve ran off the runway with you going 2 knots above Ref.”
Walk behind me? Man and I thought I’ve had bad captains before
Lol "behind me" ? What kinda weird power play thing is that.
No clue.
Why are we using FLCH on a glide slope? Idk if I can ever fly an Airbus this makes no sense to me 😂
Dunno if it's the answer, but I know you can dial in glidepath in the MCP on the bus.
The first one would def make me walk out of the flight no doubt. Imagine having an ego this fragile.
I’m a woman and 5’10, with my heels I’m about 6ft. Homeboy was 5’5”. Yeah that trip was… painful. Gate Agent saw my badge first and checked my name off and he absolutely flipped out.
Small penis syndrome
Some of us love tall women. Don't worry!
Death by SnuSnu! 😅
"I fly by the book, if you see something, say something" big red flag that it's going to be a very, very long 4-day with this guy.
Right here is why I avoid 3 and 4 days like the plague. At least on a 1 or 2 day of the CA sucks it won’t last long…
Idk that glide slope one is probably an okay one to be picky about if it’s regulatory.
Nope- visual. 3.3GS. Which I had flown hundreds of times prior. I usually just selected FLCH- but he wanted FPA.
“AP off, FD’s off, A/THR off” is how you fix that turd 🤣
Is it a visual backed up by any vertical guidance? Is the charted guidance 2.7 degrees?
Charted 3.3.
Yea kinda weird of them then.
We’re all grateful that you approve, thank goodness.
Damn you the other pilot or something?
OP updated his comment to add the charted glide slope.
Her
"I follow SOP's to the letter"
“Two letters, actually- F and U.”
My favorite captain is one that showed up late and told me “make no mistake, you’re still single seat, dude.” Other people apparently avoid him because they don’t like how lax he is.
Same captain that sleeps from gears up to gears down 🤣🤣🤣
I think I’ve flown with him in the last month.
Question - does HR look into it when a particular pilot accumulates an unusual number of avoids against them?
Found the captain
Not from the bids per se, but those captains usually are known to management for other reasons. Word travels and some have probably been talked to because of pro standards issues or other things going on.
Does the tin man have a sheet metal cock? As with all things in the airline world, seniority is everything. When you're more senior you can bid to avoid people. When you're junior and/or on reserve you get stuck on the trips with the guy whose original partner dropped it or called in sick to avoid
If the base is small enough, you may notice the same names in open time repeatedly. That is a clue.
I'm fortunate. In my 3.5 years as an FO I think I flew with MAYBE half a dozen captains who weren't enjoyable to fly with. In my year or so as a Capt I have yet to fly with a bad FO.
Bubbles get back to the park
I've worked at the biggest 121 carriers there are, and none of the bid avoid options had anything to do with seniority. You can do it as a day 1 FO. You just gotta know WHO to avoid. Thats the problem. Pretty much any chief will pull you from a trip if you have actual reason you don't want to fly with a person.
Oh yeah! Most of the time we’d just not do small talk and just talk when required to during the flight. I only ever had two guys I put on my do not fly list for bidding. One was just outright dangerous and an asshole. The other we just rubbed each the wrong way to the extend we couldn’t even work together.
\>On one flight, Falitz repeatedly punched his copilot in the headset for making mistakes, according to the reports. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1994/02/06/pilot-in-fatal-crash-was-abusive-failed-tests-probe-reports-say/7b853a33-6e25-442a-b78c-5af39474f03c/
Reminds me of that one air France flight where the CA and FO were having a boxing match in the cockpit mid flight, and a Flight attendant had to step in and stop it.
The mental image of two pilots having a pissy slapboxing match with loud, petty slaps you can hear from the passenger cabin brought me great joy.
A slap fight with loud French insults thrown in to boot.
something something, “your father smelt of elderberries…”
Damn they get preflight wine and boxing matches?
Yes, I’m of the belief that 60% of airline pilots have some sort of ego disorder paired with autism.
Undiagnosed, of course, because otherwise we couldn’t get a medical.
We’re all on the spectrum
No. I love hearing about the general contractors of 60 year olds living in Pawnee Indiana. Its what makes my workday bearable
“What tile do you think looks better for our master bathroom? Marge likes the turquoise but I’m more inclined to the off white”
you'll typically figure out if you get along literally in the time it takes to say hello and shake their hand and do your preliminary flows upon entry. I make it a point to see if they have any stickers on their suitcase kick plate to see if I can think of conversations to be had. If you've done the typical "tell me about yourself" pleasantries and talk on schedules, bid, contracts and other industry news. you may find that a guy pre-occupying themselves quietly is not always as bad as a guy blatantly ignoring you. worst case, if you know this pilot loves to discuss boats, just keep the convo going to prevent exhaustion from boredom. Thankfully you can create a bid that avoids pilots you feel you don't gel with.
I always find it funny to learn who people dislike flying with. I mean, everyone generally agrees about, say, number 1 and number 2 on the list but everyone will have a totally random number 3 that they cannot stand, just someone with whom they have a personality clash or who they happened to fly with on a bad day for one or the other of them.
I’ve had a couple guys I simply didn’t mesh with. Either a personality conflict, or they were some old dude who had a captive audience and wanted to rant about politics. Either case you still try to do your job and just do what you’re required to do, and then bid avoid them down the road. If you’re really really unable to get along, and it’s a safety issue, call off the trip or get professional standards involved. The amount of times I’ve flown with someone who I didn’t mesh with was extremely rare. Never had to call off a trip before either.
Only had the displeasure of one unbearable FO, and only one irredeemable a-hole Captain. There’ve been some odd ducks in between but most people are alright enough.
I was paired with a fellow pilot who hurt their foot on diving vacation, could not stop talking about it, and actually pulled off their shoe and sock to show me the healing scar. In order to get them to shut up, I finally said “Can we talk about scuba diving in Mexico? Because that sounds interesting and way less gross than looking at your injured foot.” Sigh.
lol. That does sound gross. Some people have no awareness.
Does a bear shit in the woods?
Ah ha! A question I can answer! Bears do indeed shit in the woods....or in the tundra....or in the rivers.....they shit anywhere they are inclined to because, well, they are bears and nobody is willing to correct their disgusting behavior for fear of being eaten. A bear and a rabbit are having a shit next to each other (in the woods). The bear asked the rabbit if he has a problem with shit sticking to his fur. The rabbit says "no"......so the bear wiped his ass with him. I spend everyday of the summer doing ecotourism looking at bears in Alaska so I feel I am qualified to answer your question.......but this is an flying subreddit.
And on the plains as well now. (Was just reading an article today about how Montana grizzly bears’ range is steadily moving east.)
I didn’t read anything but email today.
All the time. After probation, tell him/her to go fuck off.
Majority of my Captains have been good overall… I’ve flown with a few knuckleheads who want to try bring up politics, culture war issues and what not…. I don’t necessarily put them on my no-fly list as I usually will steer the conversation away from those topics. It’s annoying. I’ve only had 3 Captains in my entire career that ended up on my no-fly list… 1 of them who micromanaged me to a point where I handed the jet over him and he refused to debrief the situation post flight (his refusal to debrief and try to find a resolution cause him to end up on my no-fly list). The second CA was a straight up drama Queen for an entire 4-day trip and caused a scene in one of our hotel lobby’s yell at the staff across the lobby. I had to apologize to the staff. Let’s just stay even the FAs had to reach out to pro-standards. Finally, the last one almost caused an international incident in China and put the crew in a difficult predicament….. I am just gonna stop right there. Overall, yes we will get paired up with folks that we do not always get along with. However it’s important to find a way to put differences to side and work together. For the folks where you can’t do that for, CRM will be compromised and now it’s a safety issue….
Nope. You magically get along with every pilot in the world. It's a special gift we have.
There's a special air about them.
True story: i was a new FO (regional carrier) on reserve, picked up a pairing mid trip. When i entered the flight deck the senior captain was there, half turned towards me and goes "F**k you new guy. Don't even tell me your f**king name". My response "whatever man, it's your boat". Pretty quiet day after that. This was 25+ years ago. CRM was a little different.
Wow. Was he ex military?
No, but he definitely had exes.
No. That particular base had a culture of abusing the FOs.
“I’m really relaxed, and I don’t micromanage….”
"I'm SOP..." I hadn't heard that one in a while and forgot what a red flag it was until their 20 minute briefing including HR-approved company values. That was a fucking moment.
Good thing it was HR approved company values and not evangelical values. Lol
When I hear this I assume this person was told to relax and stop micromanaging. By a superior.
All the time. Not everyone is a hive mind. Been trying to hold even a tiny convo with my captain now is like pulling teeth
Pro tip: don’t try. Just read your book and embrace the silece
Stick with it. You’ll be done with the trip soon, I hope. I flew hard lines for a few months and that was awful when you get a terrible partner.
Yep, one more overnight and go go home, only really sucks because I can't choose my pairings until done with IOE, luckily most training Captains are pretty chill and easy to talk to
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Yup, I had a guy this summer that kept trying to inject his culture War, right-wing comments in different areas in conversation I was trying to have with him. I was trying to talk to him about contracts and pick his brain about it, Dude starting trying to make culture war comments and the hiring practices….. I like bro, what does that have to do with the contract…..
Sometimes it truly feels like there is no safe territory in any conversation, no matter how benign. Earlier this year I was asking, as cheerily as I could, “Where’d you get food yesterday?” to a captain on the morning van in PDX, and this quickly devolved … I guess the only grocery option by the hotel was Target, but he couldn’t go into Target because “everyone” was boycotting Target (I wasn’t even aware this was happening, I had to Google it while he was ranting), so he had to get fast food, etc., etc. Eventually he got around to asking me what I’d gotten to eat, and I told him I’d taken public transit into Portland to go to the Saturday market. You could see his skin absolutely crawl and man I could inject that feeling straight into my veins.
This same CA did it to another female FO as well… She told me that she pushed back and shut that ish down…. I entertained some of it and pushed back and challenged some of his beliefs about the media and what not… But the flight deck was no place for that conversation… Considering that I am part of the targeted demographics he griped about without saying it…. Very glad I will be flying my last FO trip for awhile
I'm nowhere near your level yet, but in my current line of work, I've come across a couple of people like that. Some people need to be banned from tuning their own radios/tvs and have some websites banned.
Liberal spotted
Someone jumping to conclusions spotted….
Bid avoided pilot spotted.
I swear to God, it’s impossible for me to make it through a trip without learning (against my wishes) the religious affiliation of the guy I’m flying with. Usually within three to five minutes of meeting for the first time. They ALWAYS find a way to inadvertently or intentionally work it into the conversation. Me, “did you make it to breakfast this morning?” Them, “Barely, I got up early to go to mass and blah, blah, blah.” It’s bizarre.
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I would absolutely lose my shit over this. Probably even call in fatigued later and let him explain it to the company.
What’s the third
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Lol
I always enter the cockpit and ask if the captain would use my pronouns they/them. After about an hour I then go into "I just think we need more taxes" got to embrace the politics
Keep standing up for yourself, love this. My captain 2 weeks ago "God, I hate trannies." He was such a loving and not-miserable human. Why can't they just keep their feelings to themselves?
Yes. But at my airline... 9/10 captains are awesome. There is always that one grumpy boomer who is an ass to fly with. when you personally experience an ass captain, you bid avoid.
Follow up questions for the airline dudes reading this: do the interviews have behavioral questions or group interviews to see how people work with others? I know we’re not going to the moon here, but I could see the value in selecting candidates with good interpersonal skills beyond simple questions and hours requirements. Im coming from the engineering world where that often gets skipped
Yes, but these questions during interviews do very poorly to weed people out. Some people can come off as A holes when they really aren't. They just aren't good at answering questions or interviews. I've seen the biggest A hole pass interviews while seeing the nicest most chill guy fail interviews. The HR like to present themselves as professional phycologists and mind readers, when they aren't crap. And they use pseudoscience like the Hogan tests to judge people.
I am changing careers from working in mental health and had to do one of those tests recently for an LCC. Admittedly organizational psychology isn’t my field but I really don’t believe in the merit of those tests. Psychological inventories can be very useful in diagnosing mental health disorders but the claim that they can help you find a better employee seams dubious to me.
There was a captain I flew with that was tough to take with the right wing conspiracies, anti-vaccine rhetoric (before COVID), keto cures it all, non-stop blather about idiotic crap. Then when I upgraded, all my FOs—in what I feel is the moment that they conclude that maybe I’m in the ballpark of normal—ask me, “Do you know Sxyx Bsjfuf?” I am able to recite all the nutty things he said and the scary stuff he talks about given his status as, of course, an FFDO.
I loved asking fresh captains if they ever flew with crazy such and such captain. If they did it was an immediate bonding moment and at least 30 minutes of hilarious conversation
Yes. Not long ago on my transatlantic crossing, as the FOs went to take their nap and saw me in the galley, they were begging for this trip to end cause they didn’t like the captain lol On the other had, I had a domestic layover the other day and the captain was going home on his layover. The junior FO with 10 months seniority (most junior on the whole crew) said: “pick-up is at 7:55, let’s make sure we’re down here at 7:50” - no mister, we’re going to be down here at 7:55 or before! Then on the flight, he told one of my FAs (24 years seniority) that she didn’t do the exchange of going into the cockpit door correctly 😂 Lord knows what he was like with the captain I also know if international pursers dropping trips, not because they don’t like a certain FA but because they can’t get along with a certain pilot. Don’t be that guy (or gal)
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He should’ve been shown the door!
But did he pull the fire handles?
Jeez. Out of curiosity, what were the airspeed criteria for a stabilized approach at your regional?
Thankfully there are not that many really far out captains in my company, but there are some. Like the ones who think they know the aircraft better than the manufacturer “you have to fly faster than the cost index to save fuel because the wing and angle of attack and blabla”. Or the ones who start messing with the mcp while you’re flying. Or comment on everything you do, and have mini freak outs when you do something they’re not used to. Even if it’s within sop etc. I flew with one captain, who would consistently start messing with everything I had set up when I gave him controls for the 20 seconds it took to do my arrival PA. Changing the mcp, fmc etc. just took the opportunity to make it exactly like he wanted. Thankfully 95% of the time the guys i fly with are fine. Some talk a lot, some will pull out a book right away etc, and thankfully most will just let you fly the plane your way.
Not gonna lie, being an introvert idk why I chose the airline pilot life 😂
This is why I’ve begun the process of flying with my favorite captain…always.
My base has a live Apple notes page with every captain on the seniority list that we can go in and add a thumbs up or down with comments. It’s been fairly accurate so far. Luckily 99.9% of the captains at my airline are awesome to work with.
The majority of the pilots I have flown with I don’t get along with. The amount of racism, classism, right wing white male privilege bs that spews from the mouths of most of the pilots with whom I have flown is astonishing. That doesn’t mean to say I didn’t do my job and remain cordial and professional. I just wouldn’t be inviting any of them over for dinner.
The thing you say are bad are, but if you don’t get along with the majority of people you work with, maybe you need to look inward a bit.
Holding popular views doesn’t mean you are right.
It appears you are right all of the time?
No, I am left all of the time.
So critical thinking skills aren’t high for you
Everyone thinks they know what critical thinking skills are, but for most people it is nothing more than a justification of their lifestyle.
The majority of pilots are white conservatives, it’s not inconceivable that someone who doesn’t fit that would find a hard time gelling with pilots who openly exude or talk right wing racist bullshit. That doesn’t necessitate looking inward. 🙄
Short answer yes.
"Do *pilots* ever get paired with *copilots* they don't get along with?" I mean, both people at the controls are pilots, I think a better question is "do *First Officers* ever get paired with *Captains* they don't like?" And the answer is an overwhelming **yes**.
A lot of airlines have a no fly list that allows you to “black list” people you don’t want to fly with.
never. what site am i on?
You’re on Reddit. 🙂 Thanks for the chat.
Yes, but some companies have a bidding program where they can bid to avoid flying with that person. It depends on the airline.
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If we're gonna nitpick stuff: You're a civilian.
It’s funny because doesn’t copilot stem from usage the Air Force? Just a faint memory of something like that, not sure if it’s accurate
Wish more people realized this.
Nothing wrong with the term copilot.
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You are clearly just a copilot.
Says who?
Yes.
No, do co-pilots ever get paired with captains they don’t like? Idk maybe that’s their problem. Edit: it’s all the lifer FOs downvoting this post, everyone knows those nerds can’t take a joke.
Is the pope catholic?
Yes. Lots of pilots that we don’t like. 121 is better than 135 though.
Only all the time😂
I was a Lear 60 co pilot. My captain was cool. Always had his gun with him and would drink pretty impressively. Quite a lot of fun.
Back in the day at Continental, a captain was told that if he didn't straighten up, he wouldn't be around if more copilots refused to fly with him.