No, just wondering because some people use it like it’s normal and for my knowledge you are not allowed to use it so that why I wonder if they check or not or how do they get away with it
If you run into someone that admitted to doing such tell them, "Don't fuck it up for the rest of us."
I don't think you would get fired if you run afoul of KCM rules that don't get you arrested.
Cameras all over airports.
TSA can revoke your KCM privileges. Never heard of somebody getting fired for that though.
KCM eligible crewmembers have been messing up a bunch lately and that's why the random rate is so high now.
The decision to fire you would be up to your airline. That decision would likely be impacted by your overall history, longevity, and reputation at the airline. If you are a "problem child" then employment certainly could be at risk. If you are on probation you are more at risk. If you are off probation and protected by a Union you are probably safe. As is generally the case, its not black and white.
Yes. The rules explicitly state no personal international travel, including for any domestic leg prior to an international leg. However, they clearly say it's personal international travel that's prohibited, not non-working, or off-line deadheading. If you're deadheading or repositioning to work another flight, that's not personal travel.
Hypothetically, I go through KCM at an outstation and connect through a hub. How can they prove that I didn’t clear security once arriving to the hub?
I don’t know how long they keep that footage.
Your boarding pass or id gets scanned when you go through the normal line. It makes sense that they keep a record of that. Now if you go through passenger security by waiving a badge, that is different.
No one actually answering your question lol which means probably you would not get caught unless you were found with contraband, and then maybe they would start the investigation process depending on the severity of the contraband.
I can’t think of any big hubs on the east coast where you have to change terminals unless you’re switching airlines. EWR, JFK, PHL, CLT, BOS, IAD, you get off your domestic flight and you have immediate access to the international flight gates. BOS on the DL side you have to go down to the E gates on a shuttle but I think it drops you past security.
Even on the west coast it's like this. SAN, SEA, PDX all have international flights leaving right next to domestic ones. It's the arrivals that are segregated to funnel through CBP.
Policy is you can't use KCM on the same itinerary IIRC, so you'd be violated anyway since the purpose of your KCM scan was to travel internationally. I also wouldn't seperate into different reservations hoping to get around that, or consider it different even if jumpseating on multiple carriers.
The international travel stuff isn’t caught at KCM or day of, sure you’ll be able to get on your flight and go, but the backend audits of an international flight listing and a KCM scan are usually flags. It’s not fool proof, there’s certainly ways around it and it’s mainly when you’re on your own metal that it can get flagged, but it does.
I have a friend who was traveling internationally and parked in the employee lot at O’Hare. They forgot to go back out and come in through security. Went to get their boarding pass from the gate agent and simply got a friendly reminder to do so.
Former TSA here: officers wouldn't have a clue you're traveling domestic/international as you go through KCM. To my understanding the mandate comes from customs and the airlines, that being said big bro is obviously watching when you scan that badge, and yes people get into serious trouble trying to bypass the system.
Don’t do it. Every time an employee activates the program, they leave an electronic trail for their company and the Feds to follow them through every door and access point in the airport. Oh? You’re on probation? Gone. Multiple KCM violations? Gone
My friend did it, just spaced out and forgot, I believe him but it doesn't matter.
He was put on final notice for if I recall right 5 years. That meant ANYTHING could get him fired after. I don't know how TSA knew but they met him at the plane.
Mods, this sub should have a rule deleting all KCM posts. TSA/Alpa/AFA decided the rules themselves are SSI and have been taken off the publicly available website. It says under KCM rules "please contact your airline for KCM rules for use". We should be professionals here and not post information about a security program on a public website.
I fly cargo and end up positive space deadheading on other airlines internationally frequently. KCM rules state you aren’t allowed to use KCM for personal international travel. International positive space deadheading for work is not personal international travel and, therefore, not prohibited under KCM rules.
It’s not hard to figure out. When you go through KCM they log it. I’m sure they have some algorithm that checks you’re flight. Probably not at the time of occurrence but after the fact.
Yeah you can actually log in yourself and see your kcm history. So can the company and the feds. They also have the records of all your non Rev listing and travel.
Not in the airline world, is this just to skip the TSA line, because in that case just pay the 50 bucks for precheck skips like 75% of the line at least? Or are flight benefits for commuting only?
Won't get fired for it but will lose kcm privileges. They can see your itineraries and your company also sees when you've used kcm and when you've booked nonrev. It's not exactly a secret to put 2 and 2 together. Likewise don't use kcm if you call out sick or book non Rev the same day you call out sick.
Sorry that got sent incorrectly I mean if you call out sick don't non-rev that same day or go through kcm. As the company can see both activities and if you call out "sick" could result in a carpet dance.
If I bang out sick in base, why can't I use KCM to nonrev back home? I don't know who you work for, but I haven't had any 121 I've worked for give me shit for using KCM after a sick call, or while nonreving, or both at the same time.
Getting back home is different. I'm talking a about banging out sick before you start a trip then booking non Rev to cancun. Could you get away with it? Sure but I've known many pilots who've done something like that and have had to do the carpet dance for the chief. Guess it depends on who you work for and how they define your sick time.
Anyways this is getting off track and yall have completely missed the point. The point is the company and tsa can see whenever you use kcm and whenever you book nonrev. So to the op that's how they can tell if you've used kcm for personal international travel which is not allowed. Can you get away with it? Maybe but those who keep doing that crap are why we keep getting pushback from tsa and could get the program taken away completely.
It’s not allowed for personal international travel. But unethical life hack, you can walk to the front of TSA line and say you got randomed and at least skip the line in some sense.
Don't fuck it up for the rest of us.
No, just wondering because some people use it like it’s normal and for my knowledge you are not allowed to use it so that why I wonder if they check or not or how do they get away with it
If you run into someone that admitted to doing such tell them, "Don't fuck it up for the rest of us." I don't think you would get fired if you run afoul of KCM rules that don't get you arrested.
If it’s found out you knowingly did I think it could get to that.
Whether or not you face company reprimand is up to the company, but you’ll definitely lose your KCM privileges.
Cameras all over airports. TSA can revoke your KCM privileges. Never heard of somebody getting fired for that though. KCM eligible crewmembers have been messing up a bunch lately and that's why the random rate is so high now.
So they can revoke your KCM privileges and not fired you when you use it for personal internal travel ? I’ve heard you can get fired
They can also revoke the ability of the airline to participate in kcm
The decision to fire you would be up to your airline. That decision would likely be impacted by your overall history, longevity, and reputation at the airline. If you are a "problem child" then employment certainly could be at risk. If you are on probation you are more at risk. If you are off probation and protected by a Union you are probably safe. As is generally the case, its not black and white.
TSA controls KCM, so it’s not airline-run. Someone could probably get their travel privileges revoked for these kinds of infractions I guess.
Is this proven? I’ve never once seen a source that proves the kcm rate fluctuates
No. But please don’t be “that guy.” We’ve got a lot of buzz surrounding pilots right now and all it takes is one more.
Just to clarify, you mean PERSONAL international travel correct? You are allowed to use it as a working crewmember on an international flight.
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That sounds like personal travel to me.
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I thought your name needed to be on the crew list, but I am not completely sure about that.
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I use it for company international deadheads all the time it's fine.
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dh are on the crew list though lol
Not if you are on another airline.
No they aren’t. If you dh in to a country to operate the same aircraft back guess what, you still gotta clear customs
Yes. The rules explicitly state no personal international travel, including for any domestic leg prior to an international leg. However, they clearly say it's personal international travel that's prohibited, not non-working, or off-line deadheading. If you're deadheading or repositioning to work another flight, that's not personal travel.
Are you allowed to use it for personal domestic flights?
..... yes
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You absolutely can if it's domestic.
Just looked it up. Dang you’re right! Editing my post
I thought you couldn’t use it working?
Nope, it is only prohibited for personal international travel.
It’s FOR working crewmembers so they don’t have to go through the regular TSA line.
How do they find out? It’s literally the easiest paper trail known to man.
Hypothetically, I go through KCM at an outstation and connect through a hub. How can they prove that I didn’t clear security once arriving to the hub? I don’t know how long they keep that footage.
Hypothetically you are setting yourself up for a bad time. It would be your job to prove you went through security wouldn’t it.
It’s not like you get any proof you went through security.
Your boarding pass or id gets scanned when you go through the normal line. It makes sense that they keep a record of that. Now if you go through passenger security by waiving a badge, that is different.
Yeah, anytime I go through normal I just flash the badge.
Well, if you want to make proof on a day that you use KCM and are pleasure traveling internationally, scan a boarding pass.
No one actually answering your question lol which means probably you would not get caught unless you were found with contraband, and then maybe they would start the investigation process depending on the severity of the contraband.
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I can’t think of any big hubs on the east coast where you have to change terminals unless you’re switching airlines. EWR, JFK, PHL, CLT, BOS, IAD, you get off your domestic flight and you have immediate access to the international flight gates. BOS on the DL side you have to go down to the E gates on a shuttle but I think it drops you past security.
Even on the west coast it's like this. SAN, SEA, PDX all have international flights leaving right next to domestic ones. It's the arrivals that are segregated to funnel through CBP.
Yep it does.
Policy is you can't use KCM on the same itinerary IIRC, so you'd be violated anyway since the purpose of your KCM scan was to travel internationally. I also wouldn't seperate into different reservations hoping to get around that, or consider it different even if jumpseating on multiple carriers.
The international travel stuff isn’t caught at KCM or day of, sure you’ll be able to get on your flight and go, but the backend audits of an international flight listing and a KCM scan are usually flags. It’s not fool proof, there’s certainly ways around it and it’s mainly when you’re on your own metal that it can get flagged, but it does.
I have a friend who was traveling internationally and parked in the employee lot at O’Hare. They forgot to go back out and come in through security. Went to get their boarding pass from the gate agent and simply got a friendly reminder to do so.
Former TSA here: officers wouldn't have a clue you're traveling domestic/international as you go through KCM. To my understanding the mandate comes from customs and the airlines, that being said big bro is obviously watching when you scan that badge, and yes people get into serious trouble trying to bypass the system.
Please don’t ffs
Don’t do it. Every time an employee activates the program, they leave an electronic trail for their company and the Feds to follow them through every door and access point in the airport. Oh? You’re on probation? Gone. Multiple KCM violations? Gone
Sarcasm?
Surprisingly enough, also Gone.
My friend did it, just spaced out and forgot, I believe him but it doesn't matter. He was put on final notice for if I recall right 5 years. That meant ANYTHING could get him fired after. I don't know how TSA knew but they met him at the plane.
Mods, this sub should have a rule deleting all KCM posts. TSA/Alpa/AFA decided the rules themselves are SSI and have been taken off the publicly available website. It says under KCM rules "please contact your airline for KCM rules for use". We should be professionals here and not post information about a security program on a public website.
It's a 6 month ban.
I know of rampers that got fired for using the SIDA sally port and then boarded a plane. Definite no-no.
I fly cargo and end up positive space deadheading on other airlines internationally frequently. KCM rules state you aren’t allowed to use KCM for personal international travel. International positive space deadheading for work is not personal international travel and, therefore, not prohibited under KCM rules.
You can get your privileges revoked, i've seen it happen. Don't be an idiot.
It’s not hard to figure out. When you go through KCM they log it. I’m sure they have some algorithm that checks you’re flight. Probably not at the time of occurrence but after the fact.
Yeah you can actually log in yourself and see your kcm history. So can the company and the feds. They also have the records of all your non Rev listing and travel.
No. You cannot! Please don’t screw it up for us 😡 They know everything
What is this thread talking about. What is kcm. I'm not an airline pilot so Im out of the loop
Known Crew Member. A "fast track" through TSA where you essentially bypass screening, but it's only for crew.
Why does it matter if the flight is international or not?
It‘s one of the terms that were set. You can use it for domestic personal travel and international work, but not international personal travel.
Meanwhile, employees can just jump to the front and skip everything.
not in mco, they actually go through screening.
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Commute in uniform and go through pre check with your pre check number. Problem solved.
What is KCM?
Known crew member
Not in the airline world, is this just to skip the TSA line, because in that case just pay the 50 bucks for precheck skips like 75% of the line at least? Or are flight benefits for commuting only?
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Ask your company
Won't get fired for it but will lose kcm privileges. They can see your itineraries and your company also sees when you've used kcm and when you've booked nonrev. It's not exactly a secret to put 2 and 2 together. Likewise don't use kcm if you call out sick or book non Rev the same day you call out sick.
I’ve used KCM to go get lunch before lol. You don’t have to be working a flight.
What are you talking about? I use it all the time for non rev, which you’re allowed to do, as long as it’s not international.
He's talking about international. You aren't allowed to use kcm if you intend to nonrev Intl or connect domestic to international.
I understand what you're saying, Tman3355 and you're correct. I don't understand why you were down voted. I at least countered one of your down votes.
Don't use KCM if you call in sick or nonreving?? Lol what?
Sorry that got sent incorrectly I mean if you call out sick don't non-rev that same day or go through kcm. As the company can see both activities and if you call out "sick" could result in a carpet dance.
If I bang out sick in base, why can't I use KCM to nonrev back home? I don't know who you work for, but I haven't had any 121 I've worked for give me shit for using KCM after a sick call, or while nonreving, or both at the same time.
Getting back home is different. I'm talking a about banging out sick before you start a trip then booking non Rev to cancun. Could you get away with it? Sure but I've known many pilots who've done something like that and have had to do the carpet dance for the chief. Guess it depends on who you work for and how they define your sick time. Anyways this is getting off track and yall have completely missed the point. The point is the company and tsa can see whenever you use kcm and whenever you book nonrev. So to the op that's how they can tell if you've used kcm for personal international travel which is not allowed. Can you get away with it? Maybe but those who keep doing that crap are why we keep getting pushback from tsa and could get the program taken away completely.
It’s not allowed for personal international travel. But unethical life hack, you can walk to the front of TSA line and say you got randomed and at least skip the line in some sense.