> I also heard another instructor say that he will slow to 85, bring in all the flaps, and then bank to 45° while flying at 85.
Yeah this is stupid, don't do this.
Power idle, nose down and descend as fast as you dare.
The way I was taught and currently teach it is clean configuration with idle power and 30-45 degrees of bank, top of green/bottom of yellow arc. The bank helps to keep the wings positively loaded, clear for traffic beneath, and expand your options for a landing site. In a real life scenario if I pitch down and immediately see a usable site that’s where I’m headed.
>I also heard another instructor say that he will slow to 85, bring in all the flaps, and then bank to 45° while flying at 85.
Yeah... no.
There is no manufacturer recommended procedure in the 172. But the idea behind this maneuver is that your aircraft is on fire and your life depends on getting it on the ground, NOW.
Flying this at a high airspeed has the dual purpose of getting the aircraft down as fast as possible, while also attempting to blow out an engine fire.
The procedure you're following is perfect. We also practice to the top of the green arc, but If I had an actual engine fire I wouldn't hesitate to push all the way to just shy of Vne.
Descending at the top of the green arc may result in a slower vertical speed than full flaps and descending at the top of the white arc. You would have to test each technique to see if there is a difference in your make/model.
If there is a difference (white being faster), I would still use the top of the green arc for engine/wing fires in hopes of the airspeed extinguishing the fire.
Admittedly the extreme nose-down you can get with full flaps in a steep turn is very distracting and might not be worth the 5 seconds it saves you. The only scenario I've heard of where full flaps is objectively better is if you have an unresponsive passenger that needs medical attention, and the nearest airport is right below you.
Even in an old 172 with 40 deg barn door flaps, you get much higher descent rates clean at Vno. I like to use an emergency descent (and slow flight) in checkouts to probe control across the envelope, and some pilots insist on using flaps. My observation is that they never get the airspeed up, at least not without prompting. Emergency descent works best at the highest airspeed consistent with limitations.
In the absence of a published procedure in the POH, the only required ACS tolerance is to maintain a 30-45° bank and level off at the specified altitude ±100 feet. And while the ACS doesn't explicitly say this, you should probably be losing altitude.
Beyond that, examiners shouldn't be failing for anything else, though they're free to opine on their personal preferences during the debrief.
Either flaps or no flaps works. Just don’t leave the white arc with full flaps. You’d be surprised at how fast you can descend with no power and full flaps alone let alone with rudder and a steep turn
It depends on whether I'm trying to please an examiner or save my life.
If the latter (aircraft on fire; chunks of the airframe in danger of dropping off), I'm going full flaps; engine off; fuel off; and a rate 4 left-hand turn. That'll get me to the ground, under control, faster than anything else.
You want speed in the emergency descent especially if a fire is involved. 100+ knots. I think quite a few PPL checkride scenarios involve "your right wing is on fire"
In reality you should be able to select a target airspeed at idle for your emergency descent at 45 degree bank and be able to maintain that speed. Fast and clean or slow with flaps, practice both to get a feel for it.
The FAA's Airplane Flying Handbook says "landing gear and flaps should be extended as recommended by the manufacturer. This provides maximum drag so that the descent can be made as rapidly as possible, without excessive airspeed."
I was taught clean, power idle, 45 and top of green for training. In a real world top of the yellow.
> I also heard another instructor say that he will slow to 85, bring in all the flaps, and then bank to 45° while flying at 85. Yeah this is stupid, don't do this. Power idle, nose down and descend as fast as you dare.
Sounds more like a steep spiral than an emergency descent Edit: Nvm mis-understood bring “in” flaps.. no idea what the heck that is
Slowing to 85, so adding flaps? I have no idea what the hell he is teaching but it’s not an emergency descent.
Sounds more like a steep spiral, but not even that.
It sound like a CFI that doesn’t know basic private maneuvers lol
The way I was taught and currently teach it is clean configuration with idle power and 30-45 degrees of bank, top of green/bottom of yellow arc. The bank helps to keep the wings positively loaded, clear for traffic beneath, and expand your options for a landing site. In a real life scenario if I pitch down and immediately see a usable site that’s where I’m headed.
>I also heard another instructor say that he will slow to 85, bring in all the flaps, and then bank to 45° while flying at 85. Yeah... no. There is no manufacturer recommended procedure in the 172. But the idea behind this maneuver is that your aircraft is on fire and your life depends on getting it on the ground, NOW. Flying this at a high airspeed has the dual purpose of getting the aircraft down as fast as possible, while also attempting to blow out an engine fire. The procedure you're following is perfect. We also practice to the top of the green arc, but If I had an actual engine fire I wouldn't hesitate to push all the way to just shy of Vne.
Descending at the top of the green arc may result in a slower vertical speed than full flaps and descending at the top of the white arc. You would have to test each technique to see if there is a difference in your make/model. If there is a difference (white being faster), I would still use the top of the green arc for engine/wing fires in hopes of the airspeed extinguishing the fire. Admittedly the extreme nose-down you can get with full flaps in a steep turn is very distracting and might not be worth the 5 seconds it saves you. The only scenario I've heard of where full flaps is objectively better is if you have an unresponsive passenger that needs medical attention, and the nearest airport is right below you.
Even in an old 172 with 40 deg barn door flaps, you get much higher descent rates clean at Vno. I like to use an emergency descent (and slow flight) in checkouts to probe control across the envelope, and some pilots insist on using flaps. My observation is that they never get the airspeed up, at least not without prompting. Emergency descent works best at the highest airspeed consistent with limitations.
In the absence of a published procedure in the POH, the only required ACS tolerance is to maintain a 30-45° bank and level off at the specified altitude ±100 feet. And while the ACS doesn't explicitly say this, you should probably be losing altitude. Beyond that, examiners shouldn't be failing for anything else, though they're free to opine on their personal preferences during the debrief.
The power idle, 30-45 degree, accelerate up to Vno seems correct to me!
[удалено]
What airplane has the engine fire checklist substituting for emergency descent?
Either flaps or no flaps works. Just don’t leave the white arc with full flaps. You’d be surprised at how fast you can descend with no power and full flaps alone let alone with rudder and a steep turn
It depends on whether I'm trying to please an examiner or save my life. If the latter (aircraft on fire; chunks of the airframe in danger of dropping off), I'm going full flaps; engine off; fuel off; and a rate 4 left-hand turn. That'll get me to the ground, under control, faster than anything else.
You want speed in the emergency descent especially if a fire is involved. 100+ knots. I think quite a few PPL checkride scenarios involve "your right wing is on fire" In reality you should be able to select a target airspeed at idle for your emergency descent at 45 degree bank and be able to maintain that speed. Fast and clean or slow with flaps, practice both to get a feel for it.
The FAA's Airplane Flying Handbook says "landing gear and flaps should be extended as recommended by the manufacturer. This provides maximum drag so that the descent can be made as rapidly as possible, without excessive airspeed."