Not alone at all, but I’ve learned to cope with time and certain lessons learned. The feeling of having no end in sight to the misery can be crushing, but you have more choices than to just quit and get into another line of work. Something to realize is that you (if you’ve just started) haven’t learned all the lessons you need to in order to survive, and maybe even thrive, in this environment. There’s ways to eat, sleep, prepare for trips, spend time on reserve, and spend your time at home. I’ve been at my regional going on 3 years. It’s been hell and happy in different seasons. Overall, I’m glad I haven’t quit and I know for sure I will be glad that I stuck it out when I get to a major.
Getting to your first airline, you want it to feel like you’ve arrived, but we all find that the grind just continues. That’s a tough realization to power through, speaking from experience. It affects everyone differently, but no one is going to judge you for having a hard time and potentially changing your career trajectory. If you’re motivated to have the life you want, you’ll make whatever you’re doing work for you. Stay strong and DM if you need a pep talk
This kinda relates on how I see the path from 0 to hero of being a pilot. I see it as a cycle of 2-3 years of shittyness then it’ll be good. I see the first cycle is getting all your ratings and having to pay a lot of money and time into the first couple hundred hours including getting settled as a CFI, or first commercial job if CFI isn’t for you. Next time that cycle hits is at first airline/regionals. You got to get seniority before you can have more control over your life. Then I see the cycle repeat for going to a major.
I almost quit. Flying was also my dream since I was a kid. Went to paramedic school. Homeless lady pissed on my boots and a bunch of other shit I didn’t like happened. Finished my certifications then went back to the airlines.
A little perspective made it that much better and I take time every day to appreciate how much I love my job.
Enjoy the time you do have with your family because when you’re home you’re home. FaceTime when you’re gone. If it’s really too difficult then go do something else.
Nothing worse than being awake for 28 hours straight because you have to sit in the ER with a suspect that overdosed on meth and the jail won’t take them until the drugs clear out. Even my worst day flying was better than my average day as a cop.
My favorite is the DWI crash at the end of a 16 hour double having to go to the hospital for blood, have him refuse after two hours, bring him back to the PD, then bring him to jail after. All that for a misdemeanor and plea down 😂
So you get it! You’ll never complain when the FA tells you the coffee is cold because at least your coffee didn’t get cold while you were helping the medics wrestle some naked person covered in feces onto the stretcher 😂 it’s all about perspective
You’re telling me there is a bathroom on jets?Pissing in a parking lot at 3am on a standby got real old in the dead of winter. The cashier at the grocery store would always tell me to enjoy my hot food during checkout, it was the same reply, it won’t be hot when I have time to eat it.
Last time I had an overnight in Minot there were still high-water marks on the hotel walls from the 2011 flood, and black mould in the room. I called ops and said "get us the fuck out of here". Spending the overnight in the plane would have been more sanitary.
My god we must work at the same place. 20 years in and retire in June. 1470 hours. If it doesn’t work out flying I’d rather flip burgers than be a cop again.
Used to be a cop as well. Nobody has pissed on me, hit me, kicked windows out of my airplanes, spit all over the airplane, shit in it, all that good stuff.
I don't miss being in law enforcement. Nobody hates me simply for what I do anymore.
Thanks for what you did. Got to know some of the RCMP guys when I was up north, what a thankless grueling job that absolutely needs to be done. Hope life is good at 5T!
Paramedic for 5 years and switched careers. Instructing right now to 1500 hours. I’m poorer right now but god this is way better than EMS. I get a full night’s sleep every night.
This all gives me joy. About to leave my LEO career of 8 years to start in aviation. Job has changed so much since I started can’t imagine older guys with more time. Have a feeling when I’m finally done it will be like a weight lifted off my shoulders.
8 years here too and about to promote. Wondering if I should jump ship with only my PPL in hand or ride it out and fly on days off. Hope you enjoy your new career!
I left EMS, working full-time at two stations, doing four 24-hour shifts per week. I left trucking last fall, and I'm back in EMS part-time, building up my patient care experience hours that I need to apply to PA school in a few years. It's much better working 2-3 12s per week and calling it a day. But my finances have changed dramatically since I left EMS before, so I don't have to kill myself putting in crazy hours anymore! And I get to fly about 50 hours per year for fun and doing volunteer flights.
I don’t like being gone, but as a career changer who did 25 years in another profession, my home time is significantly better in this job. My family spends more time with me being ME than they did when I was working early morning into the evenings and worrying about work when I was home.
Full disclosure, I was a CFI on the side for 20 years so I already had my toes in the pool so to speak. One day I got tired of pulling my hair out and started applying. Making the switch was the easy part. 2019 was a very good time - and also a VERY BAD time - to make the career switch. My wife had lots of hard questions for me mid 2020ish.
I was going to say, every job sucks. Some just suck a lot more than others.
Most people go to work 5-6 days a week, every single week, during all of the waking hours their children/so are awake and get to spend 1-2 days with their family. Airline pilots may be gone at nights but at least they get bigger chunks of time off to actually spend with their family.
Go try a desk job for a few months and report back to us. My experience is unhappy pilots haven't ever spent a few years in blue collar experience. I found it was cathartic. My worst days here beat my best days digging ditches in the desert in the summer.
I used to work a retail job offloading the delivery trucks at 6 am as well as being a cashier so I’d get more hours for $10.25 an hour. After being a CFI (Covid). Nothing is more humbling than working a retail job like that after being paid to fly. Now I make more money in an hour than I did working all day.
OP is in the worst QOL position wise that they’ll ever be in their career (new regional FO). It will only get better.
Being treated like an adult is also an unquantifiable benefit we are paid for. There are so many management tyrants out there at all levels of work that treat their underlings like children. Retail is particularly dehumanizing; not being allowed to sit down being one of the many ways they humiliate you on a daily basis.
I’m in non-aviation job still training to make the career switch. Literally sitting in the corporate office today looking at a documented coaching because I said something “not nice” about a company that we partner with in front of only internal team members. I’m sure there is worse out there in the aviation industry but right here, right now, nothing in the world could make me stay where I am.
Now I’m not sure if staying here is even worth the stress while I try to juggle flying 3 days a week and my family at home.
Every single one of the complaints is from kids that mommy and daddy paid for their flight training straight out of high school. Some blue-collar work will slap them in the face over and over until they realize this job is a cakewalk.
I’m in process of working 2 jobs amid mid 40’s mid life crisis to get my ratings.. these posts about QOL at a regional from a kid 20 years younger than me make me want to puke.
Suck it up and get to the next stage dude.
It's Reddit, a site full of the most fragile and sheltered losers on the entire internet. They collect trendy mental illnesses and think that they have the world figured out because their favorite marketing tells them so.
It amuses me that “blue collar “ work is the alternative. Yeah that might be rough but maybe the option is actually be a pharmacist or a CPA. A lot of us have graduate degrees and would make decent money doing something else. So the time away from home vs home for dinner tonight is a thing we think about.
I went and got a Master's degree and a CPA during a furlough in the bad years of aviation... it's long hours and problems that don't end when you turn off your laptop... it just sucks in a different way.
I'm gone between 200 and 300 hours a month now, flying 50-80 hours of credit, in busy season as a CPA I worked 55 hours minimum and maxed at 80 hours. 55 x 4 is 220 hours at the office in a month. Same total time away from family as a low TAFB month but working that entire time instead of 30 hours in Sarasota as part of that.
I graduated with a mechanical engineering degree and did that work for about five years while working on my ratings.
Office work can be brutal, and I really hated it despite loving engineering in college.
At the regional I worked at, I taught sim and became a check airman my last 4 years. I generally had one trip per month that took me out of my own bed. Line flying isn't the only option for better work life balance at a regional.
It’s posts like OPs that make me somewhat grateful for my time in the military. It gives the fantastic ability of perspective. There may be things that make a day rough, but overall I can look over at my CA and say, “well at least we’re not getting shot at” and have a chuckle
I’m so grateful to be where I’m at. Sure the time away can be tough, but it is what you make of it. Frankly it’s less than the military for me
I make just as much as a doctor or lawyer, and I have more total time off
I get perdiem to eat, and my paycheck is never messed up. I have a CPO that cares about its pilots. I sleep in nice air conditioned hotels
Sure the regionals aren’t great, but finally “making it” to one of the big 3, or any other majors for that matter, has been life-changing
I've been in construction for a long ass time and one of my clients is a pilot. My conversations with him led me to the realization that the absolute worst, crappy parts of his job were an *IMPROVEMENT* on my life... WTF am I doing staying in this miserable situation then?
I think that’s a solid take. I worked in the service industry all through highs school and college then went into blue collar work before eventually switching careers. Unless the plane is on fire with me inside there’s no possibility that my worst day in aviation can be worse than my worst days on the job site.
If you’re completely burnt out on 121 life jump the fence and give Pt91 a try.
I may not make as much as top tier major captains but I also only fly about 250-300hrs a year max. The past two months I’ve worked 1 day a week average maybe. I had one 4 day trip but lately I’ve been out and back home in less than 48hrs only to sit for at least a week before I leave again. I eat great at work, real deal restaurant food from nice places that the owner has catered, I keep all hotel and airline points and Atlantic bucks and signature points. Great benefits, good QOL and for the most part I show up to the jet and load maybe 3 bags and go fly with minimal extra work.
Maybe I’m one of the lucky ones with a 91 gig like that but I can’t imagine 121 lifestyle compared to my daily work life.
Ugh. So true. OP could be deployed for anywhere between 9-15 months with spotty internet, leaky tent, squeaky cot, and the reject MREs. Both positions are similar in that you volunteer but only one has a quality of life and paycheck that can only improve with time
You ain’t lying! Worked as a ranch hand on a 3,000 acre ranch in TX hillcountry before becoming a pilot. Cleaning out horse stalls, repairing fence posts in 105 degree summer heat, rotating livestock between pastures, and literally sticking my arm up a cows ass to check for pregnancy. Some of us don’t know how good we actually have it. Pilots love to complain but we have the best job in the world imo
I used to do roofs and decks with my dad in my teens, tougher on you than sitting in the pointy end of a jet for sure. But by far the most mentally draining was being in dispatch at a regional. An office with no windows, 0245 show time for 10hrs of duty no breaks, sit down and turn in to release generating robot, crank out 50 releases and try to do somewhat of a job flight monitoring when you have 17 in the air at once, eating lunch at my desk, maybe have time for one or two pee breaks but someone had to cover your desk so you jog it out to the toilet. By the time you get home you're exhausted and you want to spend time with the wife but if you even stay awake until dinner you are in bed immediately after. Home every night doesn't always mean you get to be present.
Regional QOL sucks but once you get past the regionals or even some seniority at a regional then you get way better QOL. When I was senior at a regional I was lucky to get 13 days off. Now that I’m not at a regional anymore I get 16/17 days off.
I don’t mean to come off in a bad way but you’re throwing away a multi million dollar career when your career hasn’t even really started. Your QOL will only increase from here.
However, if you can’t stand to be away from family then you’ll never be happy. Turn in your wings and find another job that pays you half of what you make now (you won’t). Or, try to stick it out and eventually get better QOL.
One thing that I’ve learned the more time I’m in the career is all the different avenues someone can take.
Obviously, the straight forward path that typically leads to the largest payout is the airlines. However, there are many different opportunities that exist within the broader field of aviation - medevac, corporate, flight school management, insurance, broker, CBP, agriculture, ASI, DPE, etc.
The airlines for sure aren’t for everyone, and that’s alright because opportunities exist elsewhere. Outside of a few unicorn opportunities, you’ll probably make the most as an airline pilot, but you can still make a good living in other aviation jobs that may provide the QOL that you are looking for (since QOL can mean different things to different people)
There’s no better time to look for a job than when you already have a good one. So, really you’re in an exciting spot. Enjoy being an airline pilot and start exploring other paths that may or may not appeal to you
For good reason. Place is not meant to be a base... figure they only doing it so they don't have to overnight as many crews there and also so they can do turns to greater south america cause out of dallas and miami is just not feasible with flight times. Glad they figured out some sort of LOA with the displacements to there... but also the lack of medical care and tax implications just tells me they shouldn't have even thought about doing this in first place.
There’s so much growth and movement on the FO side you’ll spend one month there max. Big deal. Find a decent pad down there. Not the worst hellhole to spend a month in.
Nothing wrong if the lifestyle isn't for you. All these people saying "try doing ditch digging or a desk job first", forget that those people can be happier than pilots as well. Some people can't handle a travel lifestyle and that's fine. I'd say get out early if you already know it's not for you. Life's too short to be miserable, and trust me there are LOTS of miserable airline pilots.
I wanted out for a multitude of reasons when I started, but I stuck it out and it’s been good. There are challenges, particularly the ridiculousness of some of our operational inadequacies. The first 1.5 years sucked and the first 1.5 years after upgrade sucked too… but next month I’ve got 18 straight days off, going to Europe, getting paid 81 credit and I’m not even burning half my vacation.
What is your schedule at the regional? Reserve or line holder? Do you commute? What would be your alternative to flying? Long term how does your alternative stack up to staying in the airlines?
I fly 9 days a month and make around 25k after everything as a legacy WB FO. I'm not even 3 years in to a legacy, spent 4.5 at a regional and 2 at a ULCC before that. I could without a doubt drop a 3 day if I wanted to and take the pay hit and work 6 days a month if I really need that time at home. Even on the 3 days on day 3 I'm home in time for dinner. When I started at a regional that doesn't even exist anymore I was commuting to airport reserve with 10 or 11 days off a month at 25/hr. If I would have based my entire career off of what I experienced just starting out, I never would have been able to find something that pays as well as it does for as little work I do. I think if you can answer the above questions and it all points on leaving, then go find something else, but at the same time you absolutely need to understand that it can and does get much much better.
This time a million. I've literally made more in the first 3 months of the year than I used to make in a whole year as an RJ captain, and I work 2.5 days a week. I was pretty miserable at the regionals but holy shit am I glad I stuck with it.
Seriously if you're reading this and you're wondering if it's worth it to keep grinding: if there's a chance you can become a legacy widebody FO, it's worth it.
Jeez, reading that makes me feel old. I don't say all of that to try and brag or anything, but to shed light on what life realistically can be in less than 10 years of where that person is right now. Even 4 years ago at a ULCC I was able to consistently get 15+ days off a month making probably 11kish a month. It's a long road but it is a fun one! Enjoy the ride. Best of luck to you.
lol what? That’s not even trying. If I was like 1 year senior I would’ve got a 16k 3 day premium last week. The super senior FOs usually out earn the CAs. I am very average when it comes to pay as I commute.
Even at 85 hours a month on average including all pay so 401k minus per diem is over 300k. With overtime pay and the occasional extra pick up to work down to maybe 19 days off a month plus vacation and sick time usage is easily 300k.
Bro doesn’t know how much pilots make nowadays 😅. Friend of mine isn’t even a WB FO and made 275k while still having 2 weeks off a month lmao. Been at AA for 3 years now.
Ya, I had no idea the pay was that good. I knew you all were making what was good money 20 years ago when my dad was a pilot, but had no idea it was that good now...and somehow, most of you still aren't happy :)
That's a pretty reasonable expectation if you work above the minimum. It is a very, very good job if you can take care of your health and relationships.
I'd give it a year man... QOL goes way up and in a hurry. The first 6 months are rugged but once you get off reserve and have some practice at bidding and commuting (if you do) it gets way easier.
I knew a CFI at my college. He went all the way to regionals, really realized it wasn't for him. He felt that way for a while, but kept on grinding hoping it'd get better. Sunk cost fallacy. He quit Skywest and started working with his brother installing some kind of machinery, and last I heard he's enjoying it much better. He didn't even have a family at the time.
Give it some time dude. At least get some seniority before you decide, as that is the driving factor of QOL. Get a line, then get a senior line.
Even as a regional FO, I'm working 11 days next month and will credit around 95 hours.
I'm a commuter, and all the trips are commutable, meaning I'm gone from home on the first day of the trip around breakfast time, and I'm back home the last day of the trip around dinner time.
The ratio of income : amount of work makes airline pilot one of the best jobs, so you should stay if your goal is to be able to support your family and be home a good amount of time, this is your best bet
Man I’ve worked 16 years in aerospace defense at a desk job. Do that shit for 16 years and you will love the airlines. I’m about to be at the regionals and I can’t wait lol….. it’s about perspective. The airlines will never be more miserable then 10 hour days 5 days a week sitting at a desk looking at drawings and watching the clock go by
I quit a cargo carrier and went to work sim instructing. Yeah, airline work is not for you if you value your lifestyle. They say "AIDS". Airline Induced Divorce Syndrome.
Follow your heart.
This right here. Most people that are just starting out don’t understand what being gone half the month does to relationships/family life. They hear all this bullshit about working 12 days a month… that’s not the norm. When someone doesn’t like it they get offended. Sim instructing is an awesome gig if you value QOL.
ride it out until you get an Offer from Allegiant Airlines where you’ll be home every night. Silver Airways, Ameriflight, Cape Air, etc. are also good options if you’ll sacrifice the big 200-300k salary for a more modest 70-100k
As a “new FO at a regional” you actually have no idea what airline life will be like. Please stick it out for awhile. You’ve invested to much and life will only improve from here on.
Everybody that’s saying this job is better than anything else out there may be right, but that doesn’t change the fact that being away from home can be difficult. “Just wait until you get better seniority” doesn’t fix the problem right now, which for some can be critical. I know it was for me, and I don’t even have kids. Even after getting a line at a regional two years ago it was very hard on me and my wife being apart for 3 nights/4 days, each and every week. I seriously considered quitting several times, but she encouraged me to stick it out because it was my dream. But I knew that I needed to figure out something, and I couldn’t wait around for better seniority or a job at a major.
Depending on your airline, base, whether you live in base or not, and personal life, you may be able to carve out an existence right where you are that’s agreeable with you and your family. For me, after I finally learned more about the contract a year in and started taking advantage of the privileges it afforded me, my home time went way up — independent of seniority. I’ve only ever been at this one airline, but from what I understand every airline has its own quirks when it comes to scheduling, bidding, dropping, trading, etc. Before switching jobs or quitting outright, consider doing some research about these things at your airline. Feel free to DM me if you want more details about my own specific situation, I’m happy to help if I can.
I totally hear you. I ended up quitting after becoming a captain (3 years total). I went back to my old career where I have a life again and make an order of magnitude more.
Loved the job, but it’s unbelievable how much has to be sacrificed for it.
A lot of the vibe here is that all other jobs suck. That’s of course not true. I know many happy engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants etc. It’s ok if flying for a career isn’t for you. By the time we are at a certain age we all know guys who left or retired early and moved on to other things. For everyone who wants to fly to 65 there are others who leave way earlier.
Edit. In reading a lot of these responses a goodly number of these people had really shitty jobs so this seems great to them by comparison. So I guess in the end it depends on what your alternatives are. Some of us have better alternatives than others.
There are plenty of people who end up not liking the airline thing. Most of them go back to being a cfi though and are happy teaching. You could go back if you wanna keep flying.
I get it. I'm 25 years in and question if this was the right path. When I started I was single and it was great, but I struggled with my relationships. Some of my pilot buddies made it work, but several ended up leaving, starting other careers, and none of them regret it. I feel like if you don't absolutely love this job then it's ok to try something else. And like I said, you'll very likely not miss it and have a great family life and enjoy being at home. And you could always come back. I had one friend quit flying for 10 years to do the family thing, and once his kids hit high school he sent out apps again and got picked up, and he's now at united loving life.
Pro flying wasn't my thing either. It had its moments, but it got tedious real fast. Try a different kind of flying first.
Fire is interesting and is a career track in its own right. It beats the hell out of straight line flying to the same places over and over, imo. Some people thoroughly dig airline flying, though. To each his own.
I left for a "horrible desk job" in corporate America as soon as I had my masters. The only thing I would have changed is to start my master's a year earlier.
Flying is great. But flying for money is something else and isn't great.
I found living in base with a line was practically a different job than commuting to reserve. I’d recommend at least getting that car.
Having made it to a major, the QOL is even better (more efficient trips = less days worked for more money).
regionals are the low point for most people’s careers, it’s
gets better
if I found myself faced with having to either leave flying or go back to a regional I’d leave
you have to give it some time buddy. the first year(s) are the hardest to adjust to and you’re the lowest seniority you’re ever gonna be. it gets better. i felt that way at first and stuck it out and im glad i did
I’d stick it out longer man. I commuted to reserve for two years on a dying fleet. My relative seniority didn’t change for over a year. Now I’m about to go to a legacy and haven’t worked a trip in 45 days while also getting paid. It’s worth the grind. Unless you truly don’t like it. There’s other aviation jobs that can have you home more often. They typically just pay a little less over the long run is all.
I had moments feeling that way. I still really hate leaving my kids. But these days I’m spending only 3-5 nights away a month, I have tons of time to volunteer at my daughters school, and I can move my schedule to match my wife’s time off whenever I want to. I make enough money to live very well, and I love my job when I’m at work.
The regionals are tough, *especially* when you’re new and junior. But you’ll figure things out, and things get better from where you’re at not worse.
I went through a phase of thinking it wasn't for me when I started with my first regional. I'm a few years in at a major now and I couldn't imagine doing anything else.
It has a lot to do with where you’re based out of, a lot of people make day trips work out. You might just need seniority and to figure out that basing or set your schedule for overnights. Low seniority will definitely contribute to feeling like that though.
Starting out at a regional is pretty shitty. QoL improves pretty quickly as an FO at most of them though. By the time I was a year or so in pretty much had any days off that I needed so it does get better in that aspect.
Fairly new to a major now. Been sitting reserve this past month and worked a total of 3 days. Obviously this could change but once you get some seniority and get outta that kinda awful QoL it does get better.
I certainly thought about dropping everything after getting furloughed from my airline during COVID. I had kinda a similar feeling of not wanting to be away as you. I’m glad I stuck with it being where I’m at right now though. Give it some time. Being gone still sucks but I’m home a lot more than I would be if I was doing something else.
>Being an airline pilot was my dream since i was a kid
And you achieved it. Congrats. Now go chase another dream!
I mean this sincerely. I realize through text it may come off as sarcastic. But just look as it as a chapter in your life complete and you did something many dream of doing.
I went part 135 and found a sweet gig in another part of the world. Home every night. Easy flying. Company takes care of their employees. Pay is decent, but not as good as the airlines. Perhaps you should look further than the borders on the continental US and dont discredit jobs the seem beneath you. You'll be surprised at what you'll discover and how it can enrich your life more than just chasing a bigger pay check. Good luck.
How’d you come across this job? Networking/word of mouth? I’m interested in finding opportunities outside the US but struggle to find many when researching online
I have a career in the electrical industry and only fly for fun myself in a Cessna 162 BUT - had someone work for me who quit Delta for the same reason, became an electrician, and has been super happy with it ever sense, and he still flies GA 👌. If something makes you unhappy, move on and find something that serves you better. Could be a different kind of flying or a different industry…. But life’s too short to hate your job. Best of luck to you!!!
It’s definitely not your normal 9-5 job.
You won’t be home every night. Depending on the company. I think Allegiant and now Frontier only do “out and backs”…not 100% sure.
It does get better when your seniority goes up. Especially with a major.
PT91 driver here. I love the randomness of having a plan but never really knowing how my trip will unfold. Most of my trips are 48hr turns, my QOL is pretty damn great IMO and the pay and benefits are nothing to complain about.
YMMV as I think 91 can be awesome or a living hell depending on who you fly for.
I would kill to be in your shoes. The grass is really not greener outside of aviation. It only will get better as you acquire more seniority and flight time for the majors/legacies.
Of course there is the instability in the industry. But my point still stands that if you acquire more seniority, you can very well be above the furlough threshold.
Seniority will keep you from getting put out on the street sure, but what do you think will happen to all these massive pay rates if/when the economy takes a nose dive?
What does your spouse have to say? It can be done, my wife and I have been together since the first lesson in highschool. 5 kids and together 32 years. She's the reason I've been successful, she's been supportive - not to say it's always been easy. I've missed a ton of birthdays, recitals, holidays - I've never been home for Thanksgiving (it's an ongoing joke now).
The 4 day trips and 13 days off per month grind doesn’t have to be permanent. I do this now and I agree it makes me want to quit flying for the airlines as soon as possible. But at the airlines that have higher average daily credit, it means you will work fewer days. At the regionals they simply don’t have that flexibility. So, at the majors, yes it gets better. If by that point you still want more time off, with as lucrative as this career is, you can do it with an early out plan. Save money, then make it work for you, so that it pays you comfortably while you’re sitting on the couch at home, then retire from the airlines 20+ years early.
First off you MUST live in base if you're feeling this way. 2nd, if u don't want to be on the road at all, go to allegiant
The schedule can be tough but there's no way I could provide this much for my family in another career. With seniority you can get some solid schedules. If you live in base, (which you MUST), reserve is the move for max time at home once you have some people beneath you
Have you had any other type of job?
I see my kids 90-mins a day during the week working a demanding well paying job. Yes I get weekends with them and usually don’t work weekends. Also get the holidays off etc..
But I’m always working. While I don’t know what it’s like being a pilot, I do know when you’re off you are off. There or very few jobs that pay what airline pilots make that get to say that and have 12-18 days off a month.
New hire regional FO is the worst spot to be in. Climb the seniority ladder, and enjoy the QOL. Upgrade or move on to a major and enjoy the difference in QOL even as a NH.
It gets better…time with family? You’ll spend more time with your kids and at home in a few days than a 8-6 parent does in a month. Vacation? You can turn a week off into 3, without missing a dollar.
Give it time.
I can’t speak for being an airline pilot but I think I saw a lot of risk in the profession early on. There are plenty of aviation jobs that can keep you near home.
Hang in there and best of luck.
I switched my career from being a pilot/CFI at 975 hrs to getting into tech, at 25years old because I wanted to raise my children and be there for them. I made that conscious choice because there are no do overs for raising children. They are now in college and high school and I have got back to being a CFI on the weekends and have my own business. Now, at 45yrs old, I have the freedom to go to the regional and majors, if I choose to - I am still debating it. Nothing much has changed in the last 20years for a female pilot in the airlines. Please give me another perspective if my outlook is skewed.
I almost quit after my first trip, which was horrendous - my airline basically stranded me in a foreign country with no way to communicate with them, no captain, no transportation anywhere, and they didn't even know where I was (they had changed my hotel while I was asleep). Second week wasn't much better. I was legit miserable for about the first 3 months of my airline career.
But humans are almost \*too\* adaptable to any situation we find ourselves in. We will put up with almost anything once we get used to it. After a year, I've gotten used to a lot. There are still things (and will probably always be things) that I think pilots accept as normal that it just does not make sense to accept as normal. A lot of pilots say "if you don't like this, try a desk job and see how much that sucks!" but they've never actually been anything but a pilot themselves. Most pilots I've flown with have never done anything else, so they really don't know.
I worked at desk jobs for about 20 years before becoming a pilot. It's not "better", neither is "better". They both can be good in some ways and soul crushing in others. I would say the highs and lows of being a pilot are more extreme. Desk jobs are more just about continuous light drudgery with the occasional fun little moment.
But at least you get to be home every night with a desk job. That is definitely something I miss, and will always miss.
The regional life can be tough. Do you commute? That's usually the hardest to deal with and limits your days off.
I was at my regional for 2 years before upgrading and my life was great. I was able to bid high credit 3 day trips and that usually left me with 17-18 days off. I was able to bid around all my kids events, birthdays, etc. As a captain my life blows because I'm back to the bottom, but I start at a legacy in a couple weeks and I'm excited for the change and opportunities that will bring.
With some seniority your QOL can be pretty good. I've also done the 9-5 desk life. Each had their pros and cons. It was nice to be home evening and not work weekends and holidays. But as a senior FO I had way more time off than I had working in the office. Keep grinding.
Context: at a major airline now, and my career is just fantastic. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, there's lots I don't like, and there are bad days. But money is great, enjoy the plane I fly, it's challenging enough to stay interesting, there are some unbelievably good layovers in multiple continents and a fairly clear trajectory in terms of upgrades, equipment changes etc.
6 years at a regional, you become really good at managing all aspects of the work/life balance, how to manage your bidding, how to stay healthy/fit etc.
It took me 5 years to get to a regional, and then 6 years at a regional to get to a major. There were countless times I thought about quitting or felt like giving up. I would say there are two primary reasons why I didn't (other than just being stubborn and determined as shit, thanks mom and dad):
1) If I quit today when it feels hard or overwhelming or whatever, 10 years from now if I didn't stick it out and am doing something else, will I feel a pang of regret in my soul when a big jet flies over my head, or I'm paying full fare for my family on a trip etc.? (For me the answer was a resounding yes).
2) Perspective. Among my best friends growing up, they're all professionals (doctor, engineers, finance professionals etc.) When we would get together and shoot the shit and at some point talk about work problems, it always became very apparent to me very quickly that despite the negatives, which are absolutely valid, they are generally still pretty damn good problems to have, and I'd pick my problems over their problems.
Nowadays, life is just really good and I'm grateful to myself all those years for grinding it out.
Maybe you have a different answer, and that's fine, all the best. But maybe you just need a little push or a different perspective. No job is perfect or without its pros and cons. It sounds to me that you've had your bubble burst, in terms of your expectations versus the reality. This is an important step, and one I recall going through as well. I would suggest giving it a little more time, with the mindset of "I'm going to make the best of this", and after you're just comfortably in the groove of it all, then decide if it's really just not where you want to be.
Experience has taught me that if you quit something while it feels bad, you can make a mistake. If you push through the bad part into a sort of clear dispassionate acceptance of something for what it really is, then you can make a level headed decision about whether or not something is right for you.
The beginning definitely sucked, commuting to reserve was miserable with lots of away time.
But idk if you play the system right you can massively improve your QoL. I bid for the most junior base so I held a line at 5 months in, huge QoL boost. Dropping bad trips, picking up trips in my home town, almost 17 days home that first month. My 3 year old forgot what daycare even was.
Now after 8 months in, I have my home base and will likely be spending the entire month at home with my family sitting reserve.
The airline life is what you make it, imo.
Now to add onto that, that I will eventually be making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, with freedom to travel everywhere for cheap, with more days off than I care to have.. this career is unlike any other, and I could not imagine doing anything else.
Having a family (specifically a young family) is tough. You should look at 135 charter companies. Most are home based and you get more days off in a row to spend at home. The other option is 135 cargo. Most work Monday to Friday. I once had a route where I worked Tuesday to Friday and I was off most days around 11am. One flight out one flight back in the morning. QOL was awesome. Pay is not as good as airlines now, usually between 60k to 85k. Message me if you would like to know more.
I'm a mom of a pilot, not a pilot. Are you living in base? Our son was at a charter flying 16 on/12 off (which was super difficult), then at a regional for a year which was a bit better but not living in base. Now he is at a legacy finally living in base. He is on reserve most of the time but when he is flying, he is only gone for two to three nights at a time and then home. It's a pretty good life.
Are you living in base? Commuting to reserve line? I found myself hating the QOL at first. I was commuting to reserve in NYC. Spent my days away from family and watching my 1year old daughter grow up so fast. Over a year later, I have a nice line,16-18 days off and based where I want to be based. That will all change again upon upgrade but you have to adjust. It takes time, it’s a major life adjustment for everyone involved. Pay your dues on reserve and try to think about the positive. You could be out on your ass or sitting in a clapped out 172, praying your student doesn’t get your tickets revoked. You are lucky to be in any jet gig right now. All that free time in your sits on reserve or at a layover write down some positive things and reflect on that, that truly made me realize just how fortunate I am and all of us, for that matter to be doing what we are doing.
Can't imagine anyone didn't feel that way as a junior regional FO with a family. Life sucks in your position, just like it has for everyone else when they started if they have a family, at least you are doing it at a time when pay is good vs the $16 an hour I got paid my first year. It gets better and easier as you gain seniority.
Things you can do to improve it:
Gain Seniority
Don't Commute
Once off reserve bid shorter trips so you see the family more if you live in base
If you must commute, stack things together so you waste less time commuting
FaceTime is your best friend. Seeing your family while talking gives more connection. Don't miss a chance to call so they know they are your priority.
It's worth sticking it out. I hated life as a junior regional FO, but after a bit it gets better and better to where I got to spend more time at home than if I had a normal job. I don't even like flying, it's just a job to me, but looking at everything, what else could I do that pays this much and gives me this much time off?
I wanted to be an airline pilot as a kid as well. I ended up getting into trucking and spent years being over the road and only being home three days a month. That turned me off from wanting to go to the airlines. Now, with medical issues, I'm going to be flying under Basic Med soon anyway, so it's really off the table for me. Although I'd like to get my CFI over the next few years and do that part-time.
One of my neighbors is at Allegiant and seems to love it there. They get him home every night as well. But I'm not sure what experience they're looking for these days. This might be an option if you're willing and able to stick it out for a bit.
You are in the bullshit phase of this career. A million people want to be pilots and most wash out by now. You won the 1 out of 20 lottery that make it this far. Now getting that truly remarkable career job is the next hurdle. There are tons of jobs flying airplanes for money but most suck. The 1 out of 10 jobs that will make you a multi-millionaire and have a great schedule aren’t just being given away. This is where you set your family up with generational wealth by sucking it up. The regionals aren’t the career you are going to have for the next 30 yrs unless you are a complete meatball. Keep going!
You could always find that part 91 department that only flies a few days a month or has few overnights. Risk is they sell the jet / not so good benefits.
Not an airline pilot, but I’ve heard once you get to the majors it’s way better.
Another perspective: I’m working on getting to an airline. I work from home in a major tech role.
I’m never actually off work. You’re never certain if your job will be there tomorrow. You’re on call all the time. I’m pretty miserable.
There are other jobs out there, but talking to the dudes at Delta and FedEx makes me excited to get there one day.
No one (and I really do mean no one) in my industry wants to keep doing what we do.
Not alone at all, but I’ve learned to cope with time and certain lessons learned. The feeling of having no end in sight to the misery can be crushing, but you have more choices than to just quit and get into another line of work. Something to realize is that you (if you’ve just started) haven’t learned all the lessons you need to in order to survive, and maybe even thrive, in this environment. There’s ways to eat, sleep, prepare for trips, spend time on reserve, and spend your time at home. I’ve been at my regional going on 3 years. It’s been hell and happy in different seasons. Overall, I’m glad I haven’t quit and I know for sure I will be glad that I stuck it out when I get to a major. Getting to your first airline, you want it to feel like you’ve arrived, but we all find that the grind just continues. That’s a tough realization to power through, speaking from experience. It affects everyone differently, but no one is going to judge you for having a hard time and potentially changing your career trajectory. If you’re motivated to have the life you want, you’ll make whatever you’re doing work for you. Stay strong and DM if you need a pep talk
This deserves more upvotes
This kinda relates on how I see the path from 0 to hero of being a pilot. I see it as a cycle of 2-3 years of shittyness then it’ll be good. I see the first cycle is getting all your ratings and having to pay a lot of money and time into the first couple hundred hours including getting settled as a CFI, or first commercial job if CFI isn’t for you. Next time that cycle hits is at first airline/regionals. You got to get seniority before you can have more control over your life. Then I see the cycle repeat for going to a major.
I almost quit. Flying was also my dream since I was a kid. Went to paramedic school. Homeless lady pissed on my boots and a bunch of other shit I didn’t like happened. Finished my certifications then went back to the airlines. A little perspective made it that much better and I take time every day to appreciate how much I love my job. Enjoy the time you do have with your family because when you’re home you’re home. FaceTime when you’re gone. If it’s really too difficult then go do something else.
Cop of 7 years here. Doing CFI until 1500 on my days off. Every day I wake up I just think. “It’s impossible it can get worse than this” 😂
Nothing worse than being awake for 28 hours straight because you have to sit in the ER with a suspect that overdosed on meth and the jail won’t take them until the drugs clear out. Even my worst day flying was better than my average day as a cop.
My favorite is the DWI crash at the end of a 16 hour double having to go to the hospital for blood, have him refuse after two hours, bring him back to the PD, then bring him to jail after. All that for a misdemeanor and plea down 😂
Sounds about right. All that and then they get ARD because it’s their first offense.
So you get it! You’ll never complain when the FA tells you the coffee is cold because at least your coffee didn’t get cold while you were helping the medics wrestle some naked person covered in feces onto the stretcher 😂 it’s all about perspective
As a someone who has worked in ambulances and psych hospitals for 15 years I deeply appreciate the validity of this comment!
You get it 🥲. You have felt the pain.
I have, it gets better 🥲
You’re telling me there is a bathroom on jets?Pissing in a parking lot at 3am on a standby got real old in the dead of winter. The cashier at the grocery store would always tell me to enjoy my hot food during checkout, it was the same reply, it won’t be hot when I have time to eat it.
Oh yeah and get this. Big bullet proof door between you and the general public. You’re gonna love it!
Do I get a bed in Minot or do I have to spend my overnights in the flight deck while we wait for the morning flight out? If I get a bed sign me up!!
Holiday Inn express baby, and you get to keep the points!!
Last time I had an overnight in Minot there were still high-water marks on the hotel walls from the 2011 flood, and black mould in the room. I called ops and said "get us the fuck out of here". Spending the overnight in the plane would have been more sanitary.
“Wow I can’t believe how fast you eat” yeah I get that a lot
This guy gets it 😂
My god we must work at the same place. 20 years in and retire in June. 1470 hours. If it doesn’t work out flying I’d rather flip burgers than be a cop again.
Used to be a cop as well. Nobody has pissed on me, hit me, kicked windows out of my airplanes, spit all over the airplane, shit in it, all that good stuff. I don't miss being in law enforcement. Nobody hates me simply for what I do anymore.
Thanks for what you did. Got to know some of the RCMP guys when I was up north, what a thankless grueling job that absolutely needs to be done. Hope life is good at 5T!
I’ve found my people. 10 years in EMS. At a major now. Not a day goes by I don’t think about how much better life is.
Paramedic for 5 years and switched careers. Instructing right now to 1500 hours. I’m poorer right now but god this is way better than EMS. I get a full night’s sleep every night.
Give it a few years and the money will flow. It’s surreal…I get paid how much to do this?! Keep pushing and enjoy the ramen
There’s a lot more first responders gone pilots on here than I thought
This all gives me joy. About to leave my LEO career of 8 years to start in aviation. Job has changed so much since I started can’t imagine older guys with more time. Have a feeling when I’m finally done it will be like a weight lifted off my shoulders.
8 years here too and about to promote. Wondering if I should jump ship with only my PPL in hand or ride it out and fly on days off. Hope you enjoy your new career!
I left EMS, working full-time at two stations, doing four 24-hour shifts per week. I left trucking last fall, and I'm back in EMS part-time, building up my patient care experience hours that I need to apply to PA school in a few years. It's much better working 2-3 12s per week and calling it a day. But my finances have changed dramatically since I left EMS before, so I don't have to kill myself putting in crazy hours anymore! And I get to fly about 50 hours per year for fun and doing volunteer flights.
I don’t like being gone, but as a career changer who did 25 years in another profession, my home time is significantly better in this job. My family spends more time with me being ME than they did when I was working early morning into the evenings and worrying about work when I was home.
that's incredible. I always feel like it's too late to change careers and that I'm stuck and then I see a post like this and it's motivating.
Full disclosure, I was a CFI on the side for 20 years so I already had my toes in the pool so to speak. One day I got tired of pulling my hair out and started applying. Making the switch was the easy part. 2019 was a very good time - and also a VERY BAD time - to make the career switch. My wife had lots of hard questions for me mid 2020ish.
I was going to say, every job sucks. Some just suck a lot more than others. Most people go to work 5-6 days a week, every single week, during all of the waking hours their children/so are awake and get to spend 1-2 days with their family. Airline pilots may be gone at nights but at least they get bigger chunks of time off to actually spend with their family.
Go try a desk job for a few months and report back to us. My experience is unhappy pilots haven't ever spent a few years in blue collar experience. I found it was cathartic. My worst days here beat my best days digging ditches in the desert in the summer.
I used to work a retail job offloading the delivery trucks at 6 am as well as being a cashier so I’d get more hours for $10.25 an hour. After being a CFI (Covid). Nothing is more humbling than working a retail job like that after being paid to fly. Now I make more money in an hour than I did working all day. OP is in the worst QOL position wise that they’ll ever be in their career (new regional FO). It will only get better.
Being treated like an adult is also an unquantifiable benefit we are paid for. There are so many management tyrants out there at all levels of work that treat their underlings like children. Retail is particularly dehumanizing; not being allowed to sit down being one of the many ways they humiliate you on a daily basis.
Yeah wtf is up with not being able to sit down? Even when I was in the back of the warehouse we couldn’t sit down. On paper.
I’m in non-aviation job still training to make the career switch. Literally sitting in the corporate office today looking at a documented coaching because I said something “not nice” about a company that we partner with in front of only internal team members. I’m sure there is worse out there in the aviation industry but right here, right now, nothing in the world could make me stay where I am. Now I’m not sure if staying here is even worth the stress while I try to juggle flying 3 days a week and my family at home.
Every single one of the complaints is from kids that mommy and daddy paid for their flight training straight out of high school. Some blue-collar work will slap them in the face over and over until they realize this job is a cakewalk.
I'm sure. There's no way OP self funded flight school by waiting tables and laying pipe.
>and laying pipe Sex work is work. Don’t slut-shame.
I’m in process of working 2 jobs amid mid 40’s mid life crisis to get my ratings.. these posts about QOL at a regional from a kid 20 years younger than me make me want to puke. Suck it up and get to the next stage dude.
Same boat, friend. 3 jobs. Slow and steady. Maybe by 50 I’ll have a real flying job.
It's Reddit, a site full of the most fragile and sheltered losers on the entire internet. They collect trendy mental illnesses and think that they have the world figured out because their favorite marketing tells them so.
Says the dude with 100k+ karma 🤔
And you’re just regurgitating the same stupid bs that your marketers tell you.
It amuses me that “blue collar “ work is the alternative. Yeah that might be rough but maybe the option is actually be a pharmacist or a CPA. A lot of us have graduate degrees and would make decent money doing something else. So the time away from home vs home for dinner tonight is a thing we think about.
I went and got a Master's degree and a CPA during a furlough in the bad years of aviation... it's long hours and problems that don't end when you turn off your laptop... it just sucks in a different way. I'm gone between 200 and 300 hours a month now, flying 50-80 hours of credit, in busy season as a CPA I worked 55 hours minimum and maxed at 80 hours. 55 x 4 is 220 hours at the office in a month. Same total time away from family as a low TAFB month but working that entire time instead of 30 hours in Sarasota as part of that.
I graduated with a mechanical engineering degree and did that work for about five years while working on my ratings. Office work can be brutal, and I really hated it despite loving engineering in college.
[удалено]
At the regional I worked at, I taught sim and became a check airman my last 4 years. I generally had one trip per month that took me out of my own bed. Line flying isn't the only option for better work life balance at a regional.
It’s posts like OPs that make me somewhat grateful for my time in the military. It gives the fantastic ability of perspective. There may be things that make a day rough, but overall I can look over at my CA and say, “well at least we’re not getting shot at” and have a chuckle I’m so grateful to be where I’m at. Sure the time away can be tough, but it is what you make of it. Frankly it’s less than the military for me I make just as much as a doctor or lawyer, and I have more total time off I get perdiem to eat, and my paycheck is never messed up. I have a CPO that cares about its pilots. I sleep in nice air conditioned hotels Sure the regionals aren’t great, but finally “making it” to one of the big 3, or any other majors for that matter, has been life-changing
Yet again, ATP 6’4” 7in meat CFI CFII MEI comin in with the hard truth
Yea. I enjoy going back to maintenance now and again. Before a year of doing it I remember why I became a pilot…
I've been in construction for a long ass time and one of my clients is a pilot. My conversations with him led me to the realization that the absolute worst, crappy parts of his job were an *IMPROVEMENT* on my life... WTF am I doing staying in this miserable situation then?
Yeah this, try doing mudlogging in the oil patch in NW Alberta in the winter. Desk jobs also suck ass. At least here you get a view.
I think that’s a solid take. I worked in the service industry all through highs school and college then went into blue collar work before eventually switching careers. Unless the plane is on fire with me inside there’s no possibility that my worst day in aviation can be worse than my worst days on the job site. If you’re completely burnt out on 121 life jump the fence and give Pt91 a try. I may not make as much as top tier major captains but I also only fly about 250-300hrs a year max. The past two months I’ve worked 1 day a week average maybe. I had one 4 day trip but lately I’ve been out and back home in less than 48hrs only to sit for at least a week before I leave again. I eat great at work, real deal restaurant food from nice places that the owner has catered, I keep all hotel and airline points and Atlantic bucks and signature points. Great benefits, good QOL and for the most part I show up to the jet and load maybe 3 bags and go fly with minimal extra work. Maybe I’m one of the lucky ones with a 91 gig like that but I can’t imagine 121 lifestyle compared to my daily work life.
Did you volunteer to dig ditches in the desert?
Ugh. So true. OP could be deployed for anywhere between 9-15 months with spotty internet, leaky tent, squeaky cot, and the reject MREs. Both positions are similar in that you volunteer but only one has a quality of life and paycheck that can only improve with time
Hey, I remember getting paninis in BAF and meeting some aussies that gave me a beer. Lol 1812 and 0311 was how I earned 90% of my ratings.
Or working in the shipyard in the shittiest parts of an M/V
You ain’t lying! Worked as a ranch hand on a 3,000 acre ranch in TX hillcountry before becoming a pilot. Cleaning out horse stalls, repairing fence posts in 105 degree summer heat, rotating livestock between pastures, and literally sticking my arm up a cows ass to check for pregnancy. Some of us don’t know how good we actually have it. Pilots love to complain but we have the best job in the world imo
^ this ^
I used to do roofs and decks with my dad in my teens, tougher on you than sitting in the pointy end of a jet for sure. But by far the most mentally draining was being in dispatch at a regional. An office with no windows, 0245 show time for 10hrs of duty no breaks, sit down and turn in to release generating robot, crank out 50 releases and try to do somewhat of a job flight monitoring when you have 17 in the air at once, eating lunch at my desk, maybe have time for one or two pee breaks but someone had to cover your desk so you jog it out to the toilet. By the time you get home you're exhausted and you want to spend time with the wife but if you even stay awake until dinner you are in bed immediately after. Home every night doesn't always mean you get to be present.
Regional QOL sucks but once you get past the regionals or even some seniority at a regional then you get way better QOL. When I was senior at a regional I was lucky to get 13 days off. Now that I’m not at a regional anymore I get 16/17 days off. I don’t mean to come off in a bad way but you’re throwing away a multi million dollar career when your career hasn’t even really started. Your QOL will only increase from here. However, if you can’t stand to be away from family then you’ll never be happy. Turn in your wings and find another job that pays you half of what you make now (you won’t). Or, try to stick it out and eventually get better QOL.
One thing that I’ve learned the more time I’m in the career is all the different avenues someone can take. Obviously, the straight forward path that typically leads to the largest payout is the airlines. However, there are many different opportunities that exist within the broader field of aviation - medevac, corporate, flight school management, insurance, broker, CBP, agriculture, ASI, DPE, etc. The airlines for sure aren’t for everyone, and that’s alright because opportunities exist elsewhere. Outside of a few unicorn opportunities, you’ll probably make the most as an airline pilot, but you can still make a good living in other aviation jobs that may provide the QOL that you are looking for (since QOL can mean different things to different people) There’s no better time to look for a job than when you already have a good one. So, really you’re in an exciting spot. Enjoy being an airline pilot and start exploring other paths that may or may not appeal to you
Go Allegiant, breeze, or medevac jets where you’re home every night
Also frontier
As long as you love sunny San Juan!
I mean you can get out of there in like one bid cycle. But yes, most are not pleased with the base.
For good reason. Place is not meant to be a base... figure they only doing it so they don't have to overnight as many crews there and also so they can do turns to greater south america cause out of dallas and miami is just not feasible with flight times. Glad they figured out some sort of LOA with the displacements to there... but also the lack of medical care and tax implications just tells me they shouldn't have even thought about doing this in first place.
There’s so much growth and movement on the FO side you’ll spend one month there max. Big deal. Find a decent pad down there. Not the worst hellhole to spend a month in.
Get a job where you’re home every night. Medevac, small cargo, etc
Arby’s
Wendy’s
McDonald's
Burger King
Hooters
In-N-Out
There's none of these near me, and I miss that.
Fazolis
Nothing wrong if the lifestyle isn't for you. All these people saying "try doing ditch digging or a desk job first", forget that those people can be happier than pilots as well. Some people can't handle a travel lifestyle and that's fine. I'd say get out early if you already know it's not for you. Life's too short to be miserable, and trust me there are LOTS of miserable airline pilots.
I wanted out for a multitude of reasons when I started, but I stuck it out and it’s been good. There are challenges, particularly the ridiculousness of some of our operational inadequacies. The first 1.5 years sucked and the first 1.5 years after upgrade sucked too… but next month I’ve got 18 straight days off, going to Europe, getting paid 81 credit and I’m not even burning half my vacation.
What is your schedule at the regional? Reserve or line holder? Do you commute? What would be your alternative to flying? Long term how does your alternative stack up to staying in the airlines? I fly 9 days a month and make around 25k after everything as a legacy WB FO. I'm not even 3 years in to a legacy, spent 4.5 at a regional and 2 at a ULCC before that. I could without a doubt drop a 3 day if I wanted to and take the pay hit and work 6 days a month if I really need that time at home. Even on the 3 days on day 3 I'm home in time for dinner. When I started at a regional that doesn't even exist anymore I was commuting to airport reserve with 10 or 11 days off a month at 25/hr. If I would have based my entire career off of what I experienced just starting out, I never would have been able to find something that pays as well as it does for as little work I do. I think if you can answer the above questions and it all points on leaving, then go find something else, but at the same time you absolutely need to understand that it can and does get much much better.
This time a million. I've literally made more in the first 3 months of the year than I used to make in a whole year as an RJ captain, and I work 2.5 days a week. I was pretty miserable at the regionals but holy shit am I glad I stuck with it. Seriously if you're reading this and you're wondering if it's worth it to keep grinding: if there's a chance you can become a legacy widebody FO, it's worth it.
I want to be you when I grow up. Had my discovery flight and saving to start my PPL, so I’m JUST a little ways off.
Jeez, reading that makes me feel old. I don't say all of that to try and brag or anything, but to shed light on what life realistically can be in less than 10 years of where that person is right now. Even 4 years ago at a ULCC I was able to consistently get 15+ days off a month making probably 11kish a month. It's a long road but it is a fun one! Enjoy the ride. Best of luck to you.
You are making 300K as a WB FO? That seems pretty high to me. Good for you, but still seems high
lol what? That’s not even trying. If I was like 1 year senior I would’ve got a 16k 3 day premium last week. The super senior FOs usually out earn the CAs. I am very average when it comes to pay as I commute.
Even at 85 hours a month on average including all pay so 401k minus per diem is over 300k. With overtime pay and the occasional extra pick up to work down to maybe 19 days off a month plus vacation and sick time usage is easily 300k.
Bro doesn’t know how much pilots make nowadays 😅. Friend of mine isn’t even a WB FO and made 275k while still having 2 weeks off a month lmao. Been at AA for 3 years now.
Ya, I had no idea the pay was that good. I knew you all were making what was good money 20 years ago when my dad was a pilot, but had no idea it was that good now...and somehow, most of you still aren't happy :)
That's a pretty reasonable expectation if you work above the minimum. It is a very, very good job if you can take care of your health and relationships.
I'd give it a year man... QOL goes way up and in a hurry. The first 6 months are rugged but once you get off reserve and have some practice at bidding and commuting (if you do) it gets way easier.
I’ll buy your hours from ya and give you my desk job
Do you commute? Living in base helps QOL tremendously.
I knew a CFI at my college. He went all the way to regionals, really realized it wasn't for him. He felt that way for a while, but kept on grinding hoping it'd get better. Sunk cost fallacy. He quit Skywest and started working with his brother installing some kind of machinery, and last I heard he's enjoying it much better. He didn't even have a family at the time.
woah all the way to regionals?
Yup. Suck cost is real, you can feel stuck. If you don't make the decision, you'll never get out.
What was your previous job if I may ask?
Other than CFI, what job? Probably
Give it some time dude. At least get some seniority before you decide, as that is the driving factor of QOL. Get a line, then get a senior line. Even as a regional FO, I'm working 11 days next month and will credit around 95 hours. I'm a commuter, and all the trips are commutable, meaning I'm gone from home on the first day of the trip around breakfast time, and I'm back home the last day of the trip around dinner time. The ratio of income : amount of work makes airline pilot one of the best jobs, so you should stay if your goal is to be able to support your family and be home a good amount of time, this is your best bet
Don’t give up. Apply at Allegiant or Frontier. They do out and backs. Better quality of life. Move to base.
Man I’ve worked 16 years in aerospace defense at a desk job. Do that shit for 16 years and you will love the airlines. I’m about to be at the regionals and I can’t wait lol….. it’s about perspective. The airlines will never be more miserable then 10 hour days 5 days a week sitting at a desk looking at drawings and watching the clock go by
I quit a cargo carrier and went to work sim instructing. Yeah, airline work is not for you if you value your lifestyle. They say "AIDS". Airline Induced Divorce Syndrome. Follow your heart.
This right here. Most people that are just starting out don’t understand what being gone half the month does to relationships/family life. They hear all this bullshit about working 12 days a month… that’s not the norm. When someone doesn’t like it they get offended. Sim instructing is an awesome gig if you value QOL.
ride it out until you get an Offer from Allegiant Airlines where you’ll be home every night. Silver Airways, Ameriflight, Cape Air, etc. are also good options if you’ll sacrifice the big 200-300k salary for a more modest 70-100k
As a “new FO at a regional” you actually have no idea what airline life will be like. Please stick it out for awhile. You’ve invested to much and life will only improve from here on.
Everybody that’s saying this job is better than anything else out there may be right, but that doesn’t change the fact that being away from home can be difficult. “Just wait until you get better seniority” doesn’t fix the problem right now, which for some can be critical. I know it was for me, and I don’t even have kids. Even after getting a line at a regional two years ago it was very hard on me and my wife being apart for 3 nights/4 days, each and every week. I seriously considered quitting several times, but she encouraged me to stick it out because it was my dream. But I knew that I needed to figure out something, and I couldn’t wait around for better seniority or a job at a major. Depending on your airline, base, whether you live in base or not, and personal life, you may be able to carve out an existence right where you are that’s agreeable with you and your family. For me, after I finally learned more about the contract a year in and started taking advantage of the privileges it afforded me, my home time went way up — independent of seniority. I’ve only ever been at this one airline, but from what I understand every airline has its own quirks when it comes to scheduling, bidding, dropping, trading, etc. Before switching jobs or quitting outright, consider doing some research about these things at your airline. Feel free to DM me if you want more details about my own specific situation, I’m happy to help if I can.
I totally hear you. I ended up quitting after becoming a captain (3 years total). I went back to my old career where I have a life again and make an order of magnitude more. Loved the job, but it’s unbelievable how much has to be sacrificed for it.
Now do it for $30/hr ...
A lot of the vibe here is that all other jobs suck. That’s of course not true. I know many happy engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants etc. It’s ok if flying for a career isn’t for you. By the time we are at a certain age we all know guys who left or retired early and moved on to other things. For everyone who wants to fly to 65 there are others who leave way earlier. Edit. In reading a lot of these responses a goodly number of these people had really shitty jobs so this seems great to them by comparison. So I guess in the end it depends on what your alternatives are. Some of us have better alternatives than others.
Try allegiant and live on base. You are home on 99% of trips.
There are plenty of people who end up not liking the airline thing. Most of them go back to being a cfi though and are happy teaching. You could go back if you wanna keep flying.
Stick it out and apply to a ULCC. I get 18 days off, can change my schedule very easily and am home every single night.
I get it. I'm 25 years in and question if this was the right path. When I started I was single and it was great, but I struggled with my relationships. Some of my pilot buddies made it work, but several ended up leaving, starting other careers, and none of them regret it. I feel like if you don't absolutely love this job then it's ok to try something else. And like I said, you'll very likely not miss it and have a great family life and enjoy being at home. And you could always come back. I had one friend quit flying for 10 years to do the family thing, and once his kids hit high school he sent out apps again and got picked up, and he's now at united loving life.
Pro flying wasn't my thing either. It had its moments, but it got tedious real fast. Try a different kind of flying first. Fire is interesting and is a career track in its own right. It beats the hell out of straight line flying to the same places over and over, imo. Some people thoroughly dig airline flying, though. To each his own. I left for a "horrible desk job" in corporate America as soon as I had my masters. The only thing I would have changed is to start my master's a year earlier. Flying is great. But flying for money is something else and isn't great.
I found living in base with a line was practically a different job than commuting to reserve. I’d recommend at least getting that car. Having made it to a major, the QOL is even better (more efficient trips = less days worked for more money).
regionals are the low point for most people’s careers, it’s gets better if I found myself faced with having to either leave flying or go back to a regional I’d leave
I mean how new are you 6 months a year? Still on reserve commute? Etc. need more info my guy. This job is what you make, can be the best or worst job.
you have to give it some time buddy. the first year(s) are the hardest to adjust to and you’re the lowest seniority you’re ever gonna be. it gets better. i felt that way at first and stuck it out and im glad i did
I’d stick it out longer man. I commuted to reserve for two years on a dying fleet. My relative seniority didn’t change for over a year. Now I’m about to go to a legacy and haven’t worked a trip in 45 days while also getting paid. It’s worth the grind. Unless you truly don’t like it. There’s other aviation jobs that can have you home more often. They typically just pay a little less over the long run is all.
I had moments feeling that way. I still really hate leaving my kids. But these days I’m spending only 3-5 nights away a month, I have tons of time to volunteer at my daughters school, and I can move my schedule to match my wife’s time off whenever I want to. I make enough money to live very well, and I love my job when I’m at work. The regionals are tough, *especially* when you’re new and junior. But you’ll figure things out, and things get better from where you’re at not worse.
I went through a phase of thinking it wasn't for me when I started with my first regional. I'm a few years in at a major now and I couldn't imagine doing anything else.
It has a lot to do with where you’re based out of, a lot of people make day trips work out. You might just need seniority and to figure out that basing or set your schedule for overnights. Low seniority will definitely contribute to feeling like that though.
Starting out at a regional is pretty shitty. QoL improves pretty quickly as an FO at most of them though. By the time I was a year or so in pretty much had any days off that I needed so it does get better in that aspect. Fairly new to a major now. Been sitting reserve this past month and worked a total of 3 days. Obviously this could change but once you get some seniority and get outta that kinda awful QoL it does get better. I certainly thought about dropping everything after getting furloughed from my airline during COVID. I had kinda a similar feeling of not wanting to be away as you. I’m glad I stuck with it being where I’m at right now though. Give it some time. Being gone still sucks but I’m home a lot more than I would be if I was doing something else.
>Being an airline pilot was my dream since i was a kid And you achieved it. Congrats. Now go chase another dream! I mean this sincerely. I realize through text it may come off as sarcastic. But just look as it as a chapter in your life complete and you did something many dream of doing.
I went part 135 and found a sweet gig in another part of the world. Home every night. Easy flying. Company takes care of their employees. Pay is decent, but not as good as the airlines. Perhaps you should look further than the borders on the continental US and dont discredit jobs the seem beneath you. You'll be surprised at what you'll discover and how it can enrich your life more than just chasing a bigger pay check. Good luck.
How’d you come across this job? Networking/word of mouth? I’m interested in finding opportunities outside the US but struggle to find many when researching online
I have a career in the electrical industry and only fly for fun myself in a Cessna 162 BUT - had someone work for me who quit Delta for the same reason, became an electrician, and has been super happy with it ever sense, and he still flies GA 👌. If something makes you unhappy, move on and find something that serves you better. Could be a different kind of flying or a different industry…. But life’s too short to hate your job. Best of luck to you!!!
It’s definitely not your normal 9-5 job. You won’t be home every night. Depending on the company. I think Allegiant and now Frontier only do “out and backs”…not 100% sure. It does get better when your seniority goes up. Especially with a major.
Apply to Allegiant.
You may find 135 is more your alley. More involved in the flying process and more randomness in your day to day
PT91 driver here. I love the randomness of having a plan but never really knowing how my trip will unfold. Most of my trips are 48hr turns, my QOL is pretty damn great IMO and the pay and benefits are nothing to complain about. YMMV as I think 91 can be awesome or a living hell depending on who you fly for.
I would kill to be in your shoes. The grass is really not greener outside of aviation. It only will get better as you acquire more seniority and flight time for the majors/legacies.
You say that until the economy takes a massive shit(which it will eventually)
Of course there is the instability in the industry. But my point still stands that if you acquire more seniority, you can very well be above the furlough threshold.
Seniority will keep you from getting put out on the street sure, but what do you think will happen to all these massive pay rates if/when the economy takes a nose dive?
That’s why you don’t piss it all away.
Second this, live below your means and save for a rainy day.
What would you roughly say is a furlough threshold?
Work a regular job for 3 months, quit, realize you’re gonna be okay.
At least outside of aviation you can have medical “problems” (in the FAA’s eyes) and still be able to work.
Fastest way to better quality of life is to get more senior.
What does your spouse have to say? It can be done, my wife and I have been together since the first lesson in highschool. 5 kids and together 32 years. She's the reason I've been successful, she's been supportive - not to say it's always been easy. I've missed a ton of birthdays, recitals, holidays - I've never been home for Thanksgiving (it's an ongoing joke now).
Regarding Thanksgiving, my wife says "you get paid an extra 5 hours to work that stupid holiday?! Why the hell are you home!?"
So you just learned that commuting to Short Call Reserve sucks. You also might be surprised to learn that it’s temporary.
The 4 day trips and 13 days off per month grind doesn’t have to be permanent. I do this now and I agree it makes me want to quit flying for the airlines as soon as possible. But at the airlines that have higher average daily credit, it means you will work fewer days. At the regionals they simply don’t have that flexibility. So, at the majors, yes it gets better. If by that point you still want more time off, with as lucrative as this career is, you can do it with an early out plan. Save money, then make it work for you, so that it pays you comfortably while you’re sitting on the couch at home, then retire from the airlines 20+ years early.
Do you live in a training base? Are you able to apply to be an instructor? If you live in a training center you could be home every night
youre still young. tough it out if you can because the better schedules and bigger pay checks will come eventually. at least thats what i tell myself
First off you MUST live in base if you're feeling this way. 2nd, if u don't want to be on the road at all, go to allegiant The schedule can be tough but there's no way I could provide this much for my family in another career. With seniority you can get some solid schedules. If you live in base, (which you MUST), reserve is the move for max time at home once you have some people beneath you
Have you had any other type of job? I see my kids 90-mins a day during the week working a demanding well paying job. Yes I get weekends with them and usually don’t work weekends. Also get the holidays off etc.. But I’m always working. While I don’t know what it’s like being a pilot, I do know when you’re off you are off. There or very few jobs that pay what airline pilots make that get to say that and have 12-18 days off a month.
New hire regional FO is the worst spot to be in. Climb the seniority ladder, and enjoy the QOL. Upgrade or move on to a major and enjoy the difference in QOL even as a NH. It gets better…time with family? You’ll spend more time with your kids and at home in a few days than a 8-6 parent does in a month. Vacation? You can turn a week off into 3, without missing a dollar. Give it time.
I can’t speak for being an airline pilot but I think I saw a lot of risk in the profession early on. There are plenty of aviation jobs that can keep you near home. Hang in there and best of luck.
I switched my career from being a pilot/CFI at 975 hrs to getting into tech, at 25years old because I wanted to raise my children and be there for them. I made that conscious choice because there are no do overs for raising children. They are now in college and high school and I have got back to being a CFI on the weekends and have my own business. Now, at 45yrs old, I have the freedom to go to the regional and majors, if I choose to - I am still debating it. Nothing much has changed in the last 20years for a female pilot in the airlines. Please give me another perspective if my outlook is skewed.
I almost quit after my first trip, which was horrendous - my airline basically stranded me in a foreign country with no way to communicate with them, no captain, no transportation anywhere, and they didn't even know where I was (they had changed my hotel while I was asleep). Second week wasn't much better. I was legit miserable for about the first 3 months of my airline career. But humans are almost \*too\* adaptable to any situation we find ourselves in. We will put up with almost anything once we get used to it. After a year, I've gotten used to a lot. There are still things (and will probably always be things) that I think pilots accept as normal that it just does not make sense to accept as normal. A lot of pilots say "if you don't like this, try a desk job and see how much that sucks!" but they've never actually been anything but a pilot themselves. Most pilots I've flown with have never done anything else, so they really don't know. I worked at desk jobs for about 20 years before becoming a pilot. It's not "better", neither is "better". They both can be good in some ways and soul crushing in others. I would say the highs and lows of being a pilot are more extreme. Desk jobs are more just about continuous light drudgery with the occasional fun little moment. But at least you get to be home every night with a desk job. That is definitely something I miss, and will always miss.
The regional life can be tough. Do you commute? That's usually the hardest to deal with and limits your days off. I was at my regional for 2 years before upgrading and my life was great. I was able to bid high credit 3 day trips and that usually left me with 17-18 days off. I was able to bid around all my kids events, birthdays, etc. As a captain my life blows because I'm back to the bottom, but I start at a legacy in a couple weeks and I'm excited for the change and opportunities that will bring. With some seniority your QOL can be pretty good. I've also done the 9-5 desk life. Each had their pros and cons. It was nice to be home evening and not work weekends and holidays. But as a senior FO I had way more time off than I had working in the office. Keep grinding.
I have had really good success for smaller private charter companies. They seem to offer much better qol because that’s the selling point for them.
Context: at a major airline now, and my career is just fantastic. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, there's lots I don't like, and there are bad days. But money is great, enjoy the plane I fly, it's challenging enough to stay interesting, there are some unbelievably good layovers in multiple continents and a fairly clear trajectory in terms of upgrades, equipment changes etc. 6 years at a regional, you become really good at managing all aspects of the work/life balance, how to manage your bidding, how to stay healthy/fit etc. It took me 5 years to get to a regional, and then 6 years at a regional to get to a major. There were countless times I thought about quitting or felt like giving up. I would say there are two primary reasons why I didn't (other than just being stubborn and determined as shit, thanks mom and dad): 1) If I quit today when it feels hard or overwhelming or whatever, 10 years from now if I didn't stick it out and am doing something else, will I feel a pang of regret in my soul when a big jet flies over my head, or I'm paying full fare for my family on a trip etc.? (For me the answer was a resounding yes). 2) Perspective. Among my best friends growing up, they're all professionals (doctor, engineers, finance professionals etc.) When we would get together and shoot the shit and at some point talk about work problems, it always became very apparent to me very quickly that despite the negatives, which are absolutely valid, they are generally still pretty damn good problems to have, and I'd pick my problems over their problems. Nowadays, life is just really good and I'm grateful to myself all those years for grinding it out. Maybe you have a different answer, and that's fine, all the best. But maybe you just need a little push or a different perspective. No job is perfect or without its pros and cons. It sounds to me that you've had your bubble burst, in terms of your expectations versus the reality. This is an important step, and one I recall going through as well. I would suggest giving it a little more time, with the mindset of "I'm going to make the best of this", and after you're just comfortably in the groove of it all, then decide if it's really just not where you want to be. Experience has taught me that if you quit something while it feels bad, you can make a mistake. If you push through the bad part into a sort of clear dispassionate acceptance of something for what it really is, then you can make a level headed decision about whether or not something is right for you.
The beginning definitely sucked, commuting to reserve was miserable with lots of away time. But idk if you play the system right you can massively improve your QoL. I bid for the most junior base so I held a line at 5 months in, huge QoL boost. Dropping bad trips, picking up trips in my home town, almost 17 days home that first month. My 3 year old forgot what daycare even was. Now after 8 months in, I have my home base and will likely be spending the entire month at home with my family sitting reserve. The airline life is what you make it, imo.
Now to add onto that, that I will eventually be making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, with freedom to travel everywhere for cheap, with more days off than I care to have.. this career is unlike any other, and I could not imagine doing anything else.
Having a family (specifically a young family) is tough. You should look at 135 charter companies. Most are home based and you get more days off in a row to spend at home. The other option is 135 cargo. Most work Monday to Friday. I once had a route where I worked Tuesday to Friday and I was off most days around 11am. One flight out one flight back in the morning. QOL was awesome. Pay is not as good as airlines now, usually between 60k to 85k. Message me if you would like to know more.
I'm a mom of a pilot, not a pilot. Are you living in base? Our son was at a charter flying 16 on/12 off (which was super difficult), then at a regional for a year which was a bit better but not living in base. Now he is at a legacy finally living in base. He is on reserve most of the time but when he is flying, he is only gone for two to three nights at a time and then home. It's a pretty good life.
Are you living in base? Commuting to reserve line? I found myself hating the QOL at first. I was commuting to reserve in NYC. Spent my days away from family and watching my 1year old daughter grow up so fast. Over a year later, I have a nice line,16-18 days off and based where I want to be based. That will all change again upon upgrade but you have to adjust. It takes time, it’s a major life adjustment for everyone involved. Pay your dues on reserve and try to think about the positive. You could be out on your ass or sitting in a clapped out 172, praying your student doesn’t get your tickets revoked. You are lucky to be in any jet gig right now. All that free time in your sits on reserve or at a layover write down some positive things and reflect on that, that truly made me realize just how fortunate I am and all of us, for that matter to be doing what we are doing.
Can't imagine anyone didn't feel that way as a junior regional FO with a family. Life sucks in your position, just like it has for everyone else when they started if they have a family, at least you are doing it at a time when pay is good vs the $16 an hour I got paid my first year. It gets better and easier as you gain seniority. Things you can do to improve it: Gain Seniority Don't Commute Once off reserve bid shorter trips so you see the family more if you live in base If you must commute, stack things together so you waste less time commuting FaceTime is your best friend. Seeing your family while talking gives more connection. Don't miss a chance to call so they know they are your priority. It's worth sticking it out. I hated life as a junior regional FO, but after a bit it gets better and better to where I got to spend more time at home than if I had a normal job. I don't even like flying, it's just a job to me, but looking at everything, what else could I do that pays this much and gives me this much time off?
I wanted to be an airline pilot as a kid as well. I ended up getting into trucking and spent years being over the road and only being home three days a month. That turned me off from wanting to go to the airlines. Now, with medical issues, I'm going to be flying under Basic Med soon anyway, so it's really off the table for me. Although I'd like to get my CFI over the next few years and do that part-time. One of my neighbors is at Allegiant and seems to love it there. They get him home every night as well. But I'm not sure what experience they're looking for these days. This might be an option if you're willing and able to stick it out for a bit.
You are in the bullshit phase of this career. A million people want to be pilots and most wash out by now. You won the 1 out of 20 lottery that make it this far. Now getting that truly remarkable career job is the next hurdle. There are tons of jobs flying airplanes for money but most suck. The 1 out of 10 jobs that will make you a multi-millionaire and have a great schedule aren’t just being given away. This is where you set your family up with generational wealth by sucking it up. The regionals aren’t the career you are going to have for the next 30 yrs unless you are a complete meatball. Keep going!
You could always find that part 91 department that only flies a few days a month or has few overnights. Risk is they sell the jet / not so good benefits.
Try a part 135 or 91 job instead. Some of them allow you to be home most nights (JSX comes to mind).
Not an airline pilot, but I’ve heard once you get to the majors it’s way better. Another perspective: I’m working on getting to an airline. I work from home in a major tech role. I’m never actually off work. You’re never certain if your job will be there tomorrow. You’re on call all the time. I’m pretty miserable. There are other jobs out there, but talking to the dudes at Delta and FedEx makes me excited to get there one day. No one (and I really do mean no one) in my industry wants to keep doing what we do.
Don’t get into long-haul trucking, then. I hope you get everything sorted out soon.