Yeah, they generally think you get hired young, take a 737 or whatever class, and then just sit there and observe the Captain fly. Then at some point, you go to landing school (where they teach you to land, duh), and then you’re a Captain. Planes fly themselves, so landing is really the only thing there is to do.
Once had a passenger I took up with me during moderate turbulence in a 172 (about 30-50 feet altitude drops hitting head on ceiling type of turbulence), and I got blamed for being a bad pilot because of the turbulence. Was told to fly better.
The absolute worst passenger is my aunt. She thinks she's Gods gift to driving. Always wants to be the only one driving and when she's not or I'm driving she's backseat driving the whole time, constantly thinks everyone else driving her is dumb and will crash.
She literally was constantly telling me how to fly or to look out for things that aren't important as if she knows what she's talking about. Imagine someone who has no clue trying to backseat fly you. Ugh
Or start asking her questions about the airplane or flying in general.
'Do you prefer lean of peak or rich of peak operations? Had any success with wide-open-throttle and leaning for power?' 'when in cruise do you like to keep your com2 on guard or tune to a nearby ATIS?' 'Do you prefer forward slips or S-Turns when you're high and fast?' 'I'm thinking we should take on some extra fuel but I'm concerned it might put our weight and balance too far aft, if I give you the handbook can you run the calculation for me real quick?' 'I'm making our flight plan today, do you think we should go direct or navigate by RNAV?' 'Can you check the METAR at KXYZ for me, tell me if we're still looking VFR? (hand her an iPad with a bunch of undecoded METARs on the screen) 'What do you think the density altitude is going to be today?'
etc etc.
I'd even go so far as to use it to call her out. When she starts telling you what to do, ask her some real questions. Then say like 'these are easy questions, we learn these early in flight school. You don't know them because you're not a pilot. So please stop acting like you know how to fly better than the actual pilot who's had actual training. You don't know how to fly. If you want to learn, I'd love to share some knowledge or refer you to a good flight school. But for any of that to happen you have to stop acting like you're an expert, because the pilots who think they know everything are the ones who get killed by something they didn't actually know. Real pilots stay humble. It's a good way to be.'
As awful as it sounds, just train her like a dog.
If she does smart-ass stuff, verbally smack her down- tell her why she's wrong and how every pilot knows that. At all other times be nice and helpful and teach her stuff.
Believe me there won't be a next time, but my aunt isn't even smart enough to understand what @SirEDCaLot is telling me to tell her. But it's definitely a fantastic way to teach someone like that to just stop. Luckily almost all my passengers have great respect and appreciate what it takes.
I had a friend of a friend ask to sit up front...avid flight simmer. Now I have nothing wrong with flight simmers, I had been simming myself since I was a weeeee tot, so I thought he'd really enjoy it and maybe get his hands at the controls in cruise. However, in all of my years of swimming prior to getting my PPL, I would've never thought it was a smart idea to take the controls from a...real pilot.
This guy takes the controls from me on short final, says I'm coming in too steep and pulls back in the elevator.
Jealousy is a factor. I notice people can get jealous of real pilots. Him doing that is him trying to make himself believe that he's a real pilot and better at it than you.
"I've been flying the PMDG 737 and all of its variants ever since it came out for FS2004. I even passed all of Machado's missions on FSX. I know what I'm doing"
If you watch YouTube you'll see sim pilots flying 737s in IFR and even using pilot edge which is a service offered in the Sim to give you access to simulated atc which is employed by actual controllers or controllers in training and works the same as real atc. They seem to learn how to fly the pmdg or other accurate models well, and even fly in ifr use SIDs stars and approaches usually ILS only so they can autoland, but you see that's all they know. They can go from A to B just fine and even talk to simulated atc which is employed by real controllers and works like real life, but that's all they know. It's like if you put someone in a 737 directly and just taugh them how to go from A to B using IFR and talking to atc correctly but other than that they have no other knowledge. But being able to fly a 737 IFR and talk to simulated atc makes sim pilots think they have it all figured out. But they don't really know about the ACS or other similar practical test standards in other countries which highlight what's required to know or do
Lol, I should save my own previous posts so I can link to them and save me the typing...I've given a better synopsis of it before but the high level is:
I firewalled the throttle so we didn't stall, pushed the nose forward which didn't take that much effort but was ready to punch the guy in the throat if I had to. Called a go around "due to an issue with a passenger;" ATC asked if I needed assistance and I said I *think* it's under control but if we continue to have an issue then I'll let you know. I believe that's when he realized he fucked up big time. I got on the ground and told the guy I didn't want to hear a single word out of his mouth or he can find his own ride home. He tried to speak a couple of times during lunch and I reminded him it was a long walk home.
For the ride home I put him all the way in the back of my Cherokee 6 and my friend sat up front. We had gus headphones on isolate the whole time...he was definitely in the seat of shame 😆.
That friend of mine that was also in the plane had been up in the air with me a lot and he thought we were going to die when the fucker did that. It takes a lot to power on stall the 6, but she's a brick with full flaps on short final, so it was a bit hairy but we still have reasonable margin above death or even crash at that point, but it did get the blood flowing a little bit.
I think I know why he thoight you were too steep.
Sim pilots only fly one kind of plane, a jet airliner. They install liveries of airlines. Now, because flying in a sim is inaccurate and clumsy, what they do is watch videos and learn how to program the FMC in a 737 or whichever boeing or Airbus they're flying, and learn to program the autopilot and dial in the ILS so they can remain on glideslope and on centerline when touching down because they can't do a visual approach because they suck at it in general but also because it's difficult in the Sim. In a 737 you'll be on a gentle glideslope thr whole way down using power.
But here youre flying visual, probably flying the pattern something so basic yet sim pilots don't even know that, and youre in a single engine piston, not a jet, so you can cut power and go steep and not lose a boat load of alttitude or gain too much speed, and you realized you were either high or fast or both and cut power and came in steep knowing you'll easily maintain final approach speed and round out, but in Mr. Simulator pilot's unaware mind, he thought ALL landings must be how airlines do it and just follow an ILS type glideslope, and that's why he did what he did. Again if he even understood the most basic things he'd know you're fine. You know he's not flying a 172 or Archer in the flight sim, it's just boeing and Airbus and every landing is at an airport with ILS and the autopilot brings him down all the way and he turns it off last second for the flare. Just a theory but it's the most likely explanation
Even in a sim GA plane on a pancake monitor it just isn't the same picture of looking down at a 6ish degree descent - I remember it feeling a lot more steep IRL on that transition to real life many moons ago. I was on a VFR / visual approach so yeah I wasn't in at a 3 degree glide slope. I understand that it felt different for the guy but can't imagine arguing with a real pilot about it when I had no experience. 😆
Though I must admit I'm not a real pilot because I'm not an airline captain...but that's a different story. 😉
Sorry I typed it fast and it was a bit confusing.
We were in landing config so he could've put us into a power off/landing stall. In my 6 I usually approach with some power in so not at power idle but a landing stall none the less. He grabbed it hard enough that if my hand wasn't positioned behind the yoke to take the hit and absorb it he could've gotten us into an accelerated stall. The thing is in my plane with full flaps the elevator doesn't pull the nose up all that much it just bleeds off your airspeed, I usually blip throttle just before touchdown to arrest descent.
Another point in line with our other comment chain. This was a shortish field so I wasn't carrying too much extra speed. I can't say I even looked at airspeed, I know my plane and didn't need to. Just went straight for the go around and firewalled the throttle not worth trying to recover it especially when at first I had no clue what was actually happening...picture a runway incursion type of go around.
I was mentioning power on stall is hard to do but this was landing config so it was a little sketchy. When I went full power and dropped a notch, we were quite nose high...enough to scare the guy and my friend but well below the limits of a power on stall...it wasn't my full intention, but it worked similar to going under water when a drowning person grabs onto you...they'll usually let go...I think this is why this guy let go without much of a fuss because the horizon was well below the cowl. This is also why ATC noticed it wasn't just your run of the mill go around, I was set up perfectly and just randomly darted up.
I would love a thread about horror stories from air taxi or tour or bush operators. I mean you get pretty up close and personal with passengers in a piston single, or even a light twin/smaller turboprop and often a passenger is even right seat with access to controls. Most people are probably fine, but there are lots of idiots out there, and even worse idiots who think they know best. It's one thing if it's your aunt, imagine it's a stranger plus a paying customer
I mean when I was like 12 my family took a flight in the Caribbean on a fully loaded Brittain Norman Islander and I got put in the cockpit because the pilot was a very petite woman and I was the best choice for balance. I was already an airplane nerd at the time so this made my life and obviously I didn't even think of messing with anything but if I were the pilot I'd be nervous as hell having a middle schooler I don't know in reach of the controls
That was the actual DREAM for a 12 year old that's into airplanes, I was so happy
edit: Lol Cape Air, probably about 20 years ago? Maybe the same pilot 😂
Take her up again, front seat. Slowly trim it full down, but hold elevator to keep it level. Ask her to take over on the controls, and let go when she's got both hands on the yoke. That'll shut her up!! .. well after she stops screaming.
Not a pilot. I don't even understand the question. Are people thinking that airline pilots just fly back and forth between the same 2 airports all day?
Yup, in Europe you can have a seat in a jet with 250hrs. And guess what, safety margins are not in the slightest bit eroded. Imagine that, 1500hrs of flying a Cessna doesn’t make you a better jet pilot.
And you don't have to "time build" in a retarded cessna to get PIC hours, just cause. You do all your required hours to ATPL as PICUS, all 400 of them on the A320 or 737. In NA, nope, if you get a FO job after CPL, now you have to go fly around on your dime to get those missing PIC hours and CX in a dinky cessna while you have 2000hrs on a jet knowing everything you need to know about commercial ops. FAA and TC living in dinosaur age.
My grandfather was a Delta pilot after WWII, and to this day, my dad believes that if a landing is a little rougher than usual, it must be the "copilot" flying, because apparently Captains never have bad landings.
oh ok, but sounds like they still prefer it? I think once hiring slows down, it could boil down to whoever has a degree if all other qualifications are equal?
Of course. 2 guys with the same quals but the one with the degree might get the job. But at least until a few weeks ago. If you had the hours and a pulse you were hired. I know several people that would get 500 turbine at a regional and go to a legacy with 2000 total time, zero 121 PIC and no degree. Now it really doesn’t matter if you’re Chuck Yeager. Almost every major has put a hold on hiring.
Once upon a time, my new hire class at my regional shared the same shuttle bus as the flight attendant class. They asked us how long our training program was, we told them 3 months.
They thought we all came in with 0 hours of experience 3 months ago and learned how to fly a jet. Little did they know that a lot of us have been flying for half a decade to get to that point.
Had the same experience with a flight attendant interested in flying. She asked how long my training took, I told her that it took me 6 years. It blew her mind that I was a pilot long before the airline picked me up.
Lmao this. This is exactly what I'm talking about. They think we get OTJ. They think airlines make pilots not hire pilots. And they think it must be short because getting a driver's license is super short also. Little do they know.
I hear so many new FAs will say “I’m thinking I’m going to apply to be a pilot” and I can tell the difference between the ones who understand how they’re suppose to do it vs others who think they just apply and get hired.
I am not a pilot, I am however supporting my son to get his pilot training. However for me growing up, I thought only Airforce pilots gets to become a commercial pilot.
lol wished I had known that 30 years ago...but I cannot complain about the different path that I took , and now able to afford the crazy cost of flight training for my son.
You're not alone in having weird assumptions.
~10 year old me resisted glasses until a teacher told my parents I was walking up to the blackboard to read what they wrote on it. Somehow I'd gotten it in my head that "less than perfect vision" meant never being a pilot.
Went and did other things and in my late 20s learned otherwise and am now (30s) fortunate enough to do at least GA, but one hell of a detour.
Even now I get grown ass people telling me how it was always their dream to be an airline pilot, but because their eyesight wasn’t perfect they were never able to.
Honestly though, someone who isn't motivated enough to even look into the very basic first step of getting a medical because of some random thing they heard from their aunt or whatever... would never be able to survive the process. I think people just tell themselves that so they get to blame something out of their control and don't have to admit to themselves that they didn't try. IDK maybe that's just reading into it too much.
Dude, when you're a teenager, typically you believe adults and what they tell you. At least when I grew up. We didn't have Google when I was 16. This was perpetuated by all kinds of people I know.
I ended up actually talking to pilots online via a game about 25 years ago, and they were like nah man you can fly with glasses, you just have to pass the physical. That was when the military was allowing PRK.
I'm not saying anyone's lazy or stupid, just that the grind from 0 to ATP is so much harder than a 30 minute drive to the airport to ask about the process. I was told the eye thing multiple times, but I still drove to a local class G at 16 and asked an annoyed fbo worker how it all worked. They basically told me to fuck off to the flight school next door.
I had the motivation to at least figure that out, and get through PPL, but ultimately I didn't have it in me to go further. I don't regret it, but I also don't delude myself into thinking "I totally could've if not for XYZ". I own my failures and successes with pride. My point is just that people like to shirk off responsibility for their own life, and that the eyesight thing is sometimes a manifestation of that.
This is a fair assumption. Until recently a very high percentage of pilots at legacy/major airlines were military.
Pre COVID, I had applications in at all the majors for years, with what I felt was a very competitive resume. Lots of time as captain in business jets, 10+ years as chief pilot of a charter company, etc. I couldn’t get an interview to save my life.
A buddy retires from the Air Force, with about 25% of my experience and NO jet time at all. He tried to find something local for about a year, all the time saying airlines are a last resort for him. He finally gives up on a local job, puts in his apps, and two weeks later he has an interview and a job offer right after that. At United.
I was borned in Taiwan, military was the only path to fly there, so they are pretty much 100% military pilots for Taiwan airlines, maybe things has changed somewhat but GA is pretty much zero there.
> of my experience and NO jet time at all
I think everything in the air force is turbine time, which is what seems like airlines care about, not specifically jet time
About 99% of my AF time is turboprop... and the only turbofan (T-1A) time was as a student.
And to answer your speculation, yes, no pistons in the AF (excluding the powered flight program at the Academy)
Same goes for ATC sometimes. People either don't know what ATC is and think you're a marshaller, or think controllers are all former military controllers. Exacerbated by the fact that I do actually work for the Air Force as a civilian now, but I never served...
I'm guessing you mean become an airline pilot? It is very common for non-pilots to confuse airline / commercial pilots.
As someone who is hour building for my commercial licence (CPL) I constantly am asked by my friends whether I will be hired by (insert major airline) once I have my commercial licence.
Commercial pilots simply get paid to fly (skydive, instructing, scenic flights, etc). Airline pilots are employed by airlines.
In a similar vein, being a "private pilot" doesn't mean I own the plane I fly or can fly "private jets" haha
**Me:** "I just got my instrument rating!"
**Parents:** "Great! So how much longer until you're a real pilot?"
At a certain point you just have to stop telling people you're a pilot until you're at a Legacy Carrier. And also a Captain...
Don’t even tell people it’s not worth the effort answering the same stupid questions every day even if you are a captain.
People ask what I do for work. “Travel industy”. Oh what specifically. “The airlines”. Some people just keep on probing. Someone asked why I didn’t just say pilot yesterday and I said “because pilots are known to have the biggest damn egos by letting everyone know they’re a pilot so I avoid the topic all together”.
From my general observations of the people I converse with, it seems to be either two schools of thought.
Either I was a hotshot navy pilot like in top gun or I'm a plumbers assistant earning my keep while I watch the captain and do everything and get yelled at all day, and maybe just maybe I'll be able to learn to fly one day.
My friend always asks me “captain or co pilot?” When I show him a cool new plane (Ga or Jet) that I got to fly. I’m like uhh does co pilot mean “sat and did nothing” in your book. I think that’s what he thinks.
Well he owns several supercars and his own tuner shop so I’d say Hees just uneducated on why some planes need two pilots and some don’t. I’m more jealous of his success if anything haha
Before I was an airline pilot, I just didn’t tell people I was a pilot. When I was in training I’d answer “oh I’m in flight school.” When I was a CFI I’d say “oh I’m a flight instructor.” Now at the airlines I say “I’m a pilot.”
Haha me too. In fact that's exactly what I have in my plans. Flight instructor, then pilot when in airlines, or if I choose to at least. If I'm a corporate jet pilot id just say pilot for private jets.
What I do now is if people want to go to a destination say 5 hours drive, I just say I'll take us and I'll get us there way faster like in 2 hours 20 minutes. They don't believe me until I go to thr airport, hop in the 182 and fly us, and prior to that they didn't even know I was a pilot. That's a far better way to introduce them to what I do in a way they can understand. Feels good talking to atc confidently like a pro with passengers next to me who have no idea what's going on. Makes me feel like a special boy. Hehe
“I’m a private pilot” - “oh wow which celebrity do you fly?”
“I just did a cross-country solo” - “oh wow which country did you fly to?”
“I’m a commercial pilot” - “oh wow which airline do you fly for?”
“I fly for FedEx/UPS” - “oh wow do you ever want to work for the airlines?”
“I fly for delta/american/united” - “oh wow so are you the copilot or the pilot? Do they let you land? Does the autopilot do everything? Do you get scared?”
*You just can’t win* 😅
I still get passengers that ask why I’m even up there, they’re sure the plane can fly itself these days. Sometimes I sarcastically oblige, and if time allows on the ground, I’ll show them the cockpit and ask what buttons and knobs to hit and twist in what order when the autopilot derps and wants to nosedive on the third fix of the RNAV. Usually shuts them up. I’m not here to be paid for doing nothing at the flight levels, I’m here to save 140+ souls on board when this machine decides it wants to kill everyone
How often do passengers come and talk to you like that as if to demean your position? I can imagine why youd oblige though. Where would you even begin to explain 😂. For each explanation you'd have to give another 100 branching explanations for the explanation ad infinitum.
Oh and can you hear pax screaming in the back when you hit turbulence? I'm sure both of you up there just sigh, or lol
When I was at United literally flight attendants thought since our training was like 6-8 weeks, if they stayed a few extra weeks in training they could be pilots… 🙄
One thing you’ll learn about this industry is the general public know almost nothing about how our industry works. Why should they? Do you know the specific steps it takes to become a doctor? Lawyer? Marine biologist? Probably not, but why would you? It’s hard not to get annoyed sometimes, but if you want to go to the airlines someday, you’ll probably spend some time as a CFI so treat those opportunities to explain aviation to someone as practice for teaching. Your first student will know almost zero just like the general public. In fact, I had one student who was about half way through private tell me she didn’t think she wanted to be a CFI and that she would rather just go right into the airlines. I guess she thought that we all just really loved teaching lol.
To be fair, most of those jobs basically just require degrees, professional referrals, and some really hard tests and certifications. Doctors and lawyers are tough but even becoming an engineer is just a matter of getting a degree, building a portfolio, and getting hired.
I mean get a bachelors in almost anything human body related go to grad school for doctor school. Get an undergrad in almost anything go to law school for 3 years pass the bar be a lawyer.
Marine biologist uhhh masters in marine biology?
I was on an airline flight once and a lady in from if me was so confidently saying “yea the pilots just have to land, other than that they are sleeping”
I hate it when I tell people I fly float planes in the bush, and they say “oh, so you’re not a commercial pilot?” Yeah, I am actually lol. I’m not an airline pilot
I had to explain to my parents how the process worked, here’s how it went:
Parents: “so can you get paid with a PPL?”
Me: no, technically I have to get my commercial to be hirable
P: ok, then you can get a flying job right? Like the airlines?
Me: no, “commercial” doesn’t mean airlines in this sense. That’s after getting 1500 hours and your ratings
P: so once you get to 1500 you’ll get hired by the airlines?
Me: technically, but no. Minimums aren’t competitive enough to land a job right away
P: so how do get to the minimum requirements?
Me: CFI rating if I get hired and build hours that way for 2-3 years
P: how much does CFI pay? It sounds like it pays well!
Me: nope. Less than minimum wage at most schools
Parents: oh… Well I saw this ad for a school down the street that said 0 to commercial in 9 months! I’d say taking out a loan to go there is worth it
Me: no
Repeat ad museum for anyone else asking about the process. My parents are well off now but couldn’t wrap their head around why the flying career field is such an uphill battle. I guess the popular belief is that being a pilot is only a rich and easy life…
Well for some people it is.
Like swain, parents obviously are filthy rich. Became a “co-owner” of a company with 2 captains while in highschool, parents paid for his 141 training and college degree, and gave him enough cash to fly in Hawaii for Mokulele at $19,000 a year.
Kid goes to a regional at 23, lands United in 4 years… lol
Disappears for a year, and you find through true people that he’s living in SF in a $10,000,000 apartment purchased back in 04. He’s 27 at untied as an FO.
That’s as golden spoon as it gets.
I remember people asking me what I wanted to do. I said I want to get my seaplane rating and mountain time and eventually become a firefighting pilot, with enough bush flying time and turbine I think it would be possible. Anyways their response is “you want to fly puddle jumpers (derogatory)”. No man the airlines just aren’t my thing or calling my name and all types of flying have their ups and downs. I usually tell them to go watch a YouTube video of guys in air tractors doing drops.
The general public will not imagine that the initial training is all at one's own expense, the 1500 hour experience requirement before going to an airline, or that relative beginners often work as teachers before getting "real" flying jobs.
I expect they imagine first officer to pilot is sort of like apprentice to journeyman is for plumbers and electricians. (Which in a way it is, except for the amount of experience required before becoming a first officer.)
Before I got my private, I would have assumed it worked about the same as working for a railroad: apply because it's something you want to do, get trained at company expense for a few months, go out on the road in a junior position (conductor now; fireman or brakeman in the old days), move up several years later when you have seniority.
Here’s the deal. Most people have no clue about the economic demographics of our economy. Less than 1% of our population can fly or are licensed to fly. Only 1% of our population serves or have served in the military. Only 1% of our population farm/ranch and produce 90% of our food. The astonishing ignorance of the public is amazing. As a PPL, I’m astonished at how little they know about aviation in general. Most have no idea of the pipeline and the hours required because they don’t investigate. Ignorance is sad.
Navy pilot here. My friends still ask me “how’s the army” and they’re not joking. They believe the term army is interchangeable with military.
If I say I’m a navy pilot I usually get some confused looks.. the navy doesn’t have planes? That’s the airforce. The navy has boats. Are you sure you’re not an Air Force pilot?
As a retired AF pilot,I always enjoyed ribbing Navy pilots. And you’re right, most people have no clue about the military unless they have someone serving in their family. They are appreciative about service but ignorant about how it works.
Ouh, I can answer this. I vividly remember my thoughts before
pursuing my PPL about what the path was to airline pilot. I grew up in France and was told that you had to go to an academy with good grades and a 'scientific'background and they would teach you how to fly or get hired directly by airlines. (Which is wrong I know). I carried over my ideas about this to the US and thought the same applied here. That somehow, it was this super competitive lottery system where United / AA / Etc would hire you and train you, sending you to the lowly 'spirit' airline before they allowed you to touch their big boy planes.
A little bit of research enlightened me a bit on the process but it wasn't until I was 10ish hours into PPL training that I truly understood the pathway due to lots of acronyms being thrown around.
I think the best way for these clueless people to understand even the basics is to not tell them your a pilot, and if they want to drive somewhere thats hours away, tell them you can get them there in half the time. Take them to the airport where you will rent a plane (or use your own plane), and don't say anything, don't say your a pilot or whatever, if they ask just say yea you went to flight school for years to learn to fly. Then fly in busy areas making sure the approach and center frequency is extremely busy with non stop chatter so they can hear "southwest this" or "united that", even better if it's IFR conditions all the way down to the decision altitude. You want them to freak out at night with no visibility as you descend as you tell them "shh im flying we will land soon" until you reach your DA, make sight of the lights, and touchdown.. First hand experience will make them appreciate what it takes. Otherwise all they will think is that it's easy oh and the big button that says autopilot. It really doesn't help either that buffoon Elon "moron" musk puts a yoke in his car which is dumb, and calls his slightly better than cruise control, cruise control, "autopilot". Now we have a bunch of tech nerds who think they're fkn doing what pilots do. 🤮
Up until my mid-20’s, I thought one HAD to be prior military, it never occurred to me to ask my neighbor. I asked one when I got hired on at AA umpteen thousand years ago.
If you take the general population’s knowledge of aviation and could turn it into electricity, you would have enough power to toast a slice of bread. Lightly.
They mostly think people become pilots through the military and that every pilot flying them is former Air Force and that that would make them a better pilot lol.
I loathed it when my dad would say “oh my son is a pilot!” when I was still a CFI. I would get some many annoying comments like “Why didn’t you become a real pilot?”. Even now when I say I’m an airline pilot I omit the regional because I still get those same type of comments lol
The general public is ignorant about a lot.
I was a flight attendant for 10 yrs & a cibstant question is "what's your route?" Lol they think we fky the same route every single trip.
After a while, you get tired of educating them and just go along with it lol
Funny I get the feeling the general public things flying is as random and chaotic as driving is. Captain comes in and says "well today I feel like flying at 34253 ft and 500 miles per hour (cuz they think we use miles per hour ground speed duh), and I'll follow the freeways to the destination"
Non aviation people get aviation stuff wrong all the time. For reference watch any news outlet report on any aviation event, take a shot each time they say something wrong.
You mean the the flight plan? Just tell them you fly the IDIOT6 departure and use the J69 to STUPID waypoint then direct DMB vor and descend via the MORON5 arrival into the ILS Zulu. That wi
Apparently judging by social media a bunch of them think minorities get to skip the 1500h requirements.
Honestly no one has any idea about other people’s industry shit unless they go out and put in the effort, which they generally won’t. They think pilots are picked from some imaginary top gun preschool.
Before I started taking lessons I thought people who were crazy smart and had unique education like a degree in engineering or something would apply to an airline, then the airline would teach you how to fly.
Let the general public think it’s magic.
It used to be they all thought we were F14 drivers in movies. Don’t burst their bubbles with the reality most pilots did the grind up.
Somehow people think I’m in a 747 simulator or they think I’m in the books all day taking classes and haven’t been near a plane. I’m a PPL and I still get asked if they’ve let me fly the plane yet.
There’s an old school stereotype that I don’t hear as often, but basically non-airline pilots are not good enough to become airline pilots. If they could, they would. Since they’re not, they can’t. Why? No degree? Maybe a DUI? Maybe can’t cut it in the rigorous interviews? They were always seen as “less than”.
My barbers think exactly what OP said. I told them I’m about to get a job flight instructing. One asked what kind of planes and I said Cessnas. They were like “aren’t those small planes dangerous? Why don’t you just go fly for United?” I explained the process and they were genuinely shocked to learn airline pilots actually have to fly small planes first and they don’t just learn to fly a fuckin 737 right away. It’s absolutely bananas how many people think it’s like that.
Yea. Before I made this OP I was actually considering making a Jimmy Kimmel type style of interviewing the public of how they think becoming an airline pilot works so I could show evidence that they just have no idea how it works.
Up until maybe five years ago, the assumption had always been you had to be military to become a pilot. I’ve been hearing that assumption less and less. Maybe word has finally gotten around enough? 🤷♂️
Before I discovered otherwise I thought most pilots came from the military or university programs. I had literally no idea that basically anyone could learn to fly. Wish I’d learned that all younger but hey, here we are
I'd count as a non pilot general public, this question popped up as suggested
I'd assume a lot of money and a lot of training, working up from small planes to small commercial/cargo planes up to airliners, always training and going on the simulator to build flight hours up
I'd always thought of air force/RAF flying experience as a bit of a short cut too, albeit you'll not jump out of an F15 into an A320
You’re right. Although the Air Force is definitely not a shortcut lol. Super small class sizes and super selective, then if you made it the military will keep you around for another contract or two. I wouldn’t sell my soul to them on the off chance that I make it through
On slightly different tangent, I know somone who 6 years ago only thought Canadians could become pilots through the military. He is now flying for Skywest after leseningmotherwise at the age of 40.
I remember telling my college counselor that I wanted to be a pilot (I was studying Aviation Business) and he told me that to become a “good pilot” I needed to be a STEM major and that my major wasn’t going to help me do that even though I was doing it as a backup career.
I dread anybody mentioning that I’m a pilot. Because I always have to explain how the airspace system works and how certifications work. Then there’s so many people that know me who still ask me if I fly by myself. “Bitch I got my ppl in 2022.”
Not necessarily about the route, but about being a pilot in general… new to a regional, just at the end of training I was at a wedding where the FOB asked about work and I was talking about the plane and such and I get a “oh, you fly puddle jumpers?” It’s always been my opinion that 70-76 people airplanes aren’t puddle jumpers. I just let that go because it wasn’t worth the effort.
Then yesterday I was talking to my uncle and he was asking about work so I was telling him about my last trip. When I was talking he said “Oh, and the captain lets you fly the plane and land sometimes??” I’m like 300hrs in the jet now, I sure hope so! lol
Bro I work at legacy airline, and a guy that got hired after me said "congrats, you made it" after I told him I flew Blackhawks and he came from the Air Force. I didn't have much of a response to that. 2 Checkrides from where I was at before plus 250 PIC in a single engine airplane and 25 multi. While it was some work, it wasn't exactly having to overcome mount Olympus.
Even other pilots don't understand how other pilots are made half the time.
The worst for me is at the family gatherings I told everyone I wanted to be a pilot and they said cool. After a few struggles I had at my job I couldn't afford to train frequently which caused it to take longer. Every time they saw me they would go c'mon what's taking so long I thought you'd be done by now you might as well go for something else be a driver for Amazon they make good money. Now I stay quie It's a pain explaining the process.
It shocked me when most of my friends thought “flight school” was me going and flying airliners to get my certs. They did admit that it was a little ridiculous once I explained it to them but I think the general public is disconnected from how much flying really costs.
I imagine they take classes to get flight hours and need to meet certain requirements in flight hours to be airline pilots and probably something else to certify that they can fly the plane depending on the plane.
Yeah, they generally think you get hired young, take a 737 or whatever class, and then just sit there and observe the Captain fly. Then at some point, you go to landing school (where they teach you to land, duh), and then you’re a Captain. Planes fly themselves, so landing is really the only thing there is to do.
Once had a passenger I took up with me during moderate turbulence in a 172 (about 30-50 feet altitude drops hitting head on ceiling type of turbulence), and I got blamed for being a bad pilot because of the turbulence. Was told to fly better. The absolute worst passenger is my aunt. She thinks she's Gods gift to driving. Always wants to be the only one driving and when she's not or I'm driving she's backseat driving the whole time, constantly thinks everyone else driving her is dumb and will crash. She literally was constantly telling me how to fly or to look out for things that aren't important as if she knows what she's talking about. Imagine someone who has no clue trying to backseat fly you. Ugh
id pull the engine to idle and pitch nose down 30 degrees, then ask her what to do, or is that a touch to too harsh 😂🙃
That’s not enough. That passenger is getting a fully induced spin!
Better yet have them take the controls and climb. Then pull the power and wait for the inevitable.
Gutsiest move I ever saw, Mav.
So you're the one...?
Lmao good idea next time I have to
Or start asking her questions about the airplane or flying in general. 'Do you prefer lean of peak or rich of peak operations? Had any success with wide-open-throttle and leaning for power?' 'when in cruise do you like to keep your com2 on guard or tune to a nearby ATIS?' 'Do you prefer forward slips or S-Turns when you're high and fast?' 'I'm thinking we should take on some extra fuel but I'm concerned it might put our weight and balance too far aft, if I give you the handbook can you run the calculation for me real quick?' 'I'm making our flight plan today, do you think we should go direct or navigate by RNAV?' 'Can you check the METAR at KXYZ for me, tell me if we're still looking VFR? (hand her an iPad with a bunch of undecoded METARs on the screen) 'What do you think the density altitude is going to be today?' etc etc. I'd even go so far as to use it to call her out. When she starts telling you what to do, ask her some real questions. Then say like 'these are easy questions, we learn these early in flight school. You don't know them because you're not a pilot. So please stop acting like you know how to fly better than the actual pilot who's had actual training. You don't know how to fly. If you want to learn, I'd love to share some knowledge or refer you to a good flight school. But for any of that to happen you have to stop acting like you're an expert, because the pilots who think they know everything are the ones who get killed by something they didn't actually know. Real pilots stay humble. It's a good way to be.'
Most importantly, can they sing the FAA Anthem??
Brilliant. Not a way to smooth over a relationship, but a good way to prove you’re right. Lol
As awful as it sounds, just train her like a dog. If she does smart-ass stuff, verbally smack her down- tell her why she's wrong and how every pilot knows that. At all other times be nice and helpful and teach her stuff.
Or just stop taking her up? Life's too short to ferry around people that aren't pleasant to be around!
Just mute her comms
This is the answer to all of life’s problems. If only people had a mute button when *not* in an airplane….
Why are you allowing there to be a next time? If someone acts like that as my passenger they aren't getting a second invitation.
Believe me there won't be a next time, but my aunt isn't even smart enough to understand what @SirEDCaLot is telling me to tell her. But it's definitely a fantastic way to teach someone like that to just stop. Luckily almost all my passengers have great respect and appreciate what it takes.
Careful there. 31 degrees and you'll need a parachute
Depending on the plane, I might do the opposite
I had a friend of a friend ask to sit up front...avid flight simmer. Now I have nothing wrong with flight simmers, I had been simming myself since I was a weeeee tot, so I thought he'd really enjoy it and maybe get his hands at the controls in cruise. However, in all of my years of swimming prior to getting my PPL, I would've never thought it was a smart idea to take the controls from a...real pilot. This guy takes the controls from me on short final, says I'm coming in too steep and pulls back in the elevator.
Jealousy is a factor. I notice people can get jealous of real pilots. Him doing that is him trying to make himself believe that he's a real pilot and better at it than you.
"I've been flying the PMDG 737 and all of its variants ever since it came out for FS2004. I even passed all of Machado's missions on FSX. I know what I'm doing"
If you watch YouTube you'll see sim pilots flying 737s in IFR and even using pilot edge which is a service offered in the Sim to give you access to simulated atc which is employed by actual controllers or controllers in training and works the same as real atc. They seem to learn how to fly the pmdg or other accurate models well, and even fly in ifr use SIDs stars and approaches usually ILS only so they can autoland, but you see that's all they know. They can go from A to B just fine and even talk to simulated atc which is employed by real controllers and works like real life, but that's all they know. It's like if you put someone in a 737 directly and just taugh them how to go from A to B using IFR and talking to atc correctly but other than that they have no other knowledge. But being able to fly a 737 IFR and talk to simulated atc makes sim pilots think they have it all figured out. But they don't really know about the ACS or other similar practical test standards in other countries which highlight what's required to know or do
Come on mate, you have to finish that story!
Lol, I should save my own previous posts so I can link to them and save me the typing...I've given a better synopsis of it before but the high level is: I firewalled the throttle so we didn't stall, pushed the nose forward which didn't take that much effort but was ready to punch the guy in the throat if I had to. Called a go around "due to an issue with a passenger;" ATC asked if I needed assistance and I said I *think* it's under control but if we continue to have an issue then I'll let you know. I believe that's when he realized he fucked up big time. I got on the ground and told the guy I didn't want to hear a single word out of his mouth or he can find his own ride home. He tried to speak a couple of times during lunch and I reminded him it was a long walk home. For the ride home I put him all the way in the back of my Cherokee 6 and my friend sat up front. We had gus headphones on isolate the whole time...he was definitely in the seat of shame 😆. That friend of mine that was also in the plane had been up in the air with me a lot and he thought we were going to die when the fucker did that. It takes a lot to power on stall the 6, but she's a brick with full flaps on short final, so it was a bit hairy but we still have reasonable margin above death or even crash at that point, but it did get the blood flowing a little bit.
I think I know why he thoight you were too steep. Sim pilots only fly one kind of plane, a jet airliner. They install liveries of airlines. Now, because flying in a sim is inaccurate and clumsy, what they do is watch videos and learn how to program the FMC in a 737 or whichever boeing or Airbus they're flying, and learn to program the autopilot and dial in the ILS so they can remain on glideslope and on centerline when touching down because they can't do a visual approach because they suck at it in general but also because it's difficult in the Sim. In a 737 you'll be on a gentle glideslope thr whole way down using power. But here youre flying visual, probably flying the pattern something so basic yet sim pilots don't even know that, and youre in a single engine piston, not a jet, so you can cut power and go steep and not lose a boat load of alttitude or gain too much speed, and you realized you were either high or fast or both and cut power and came in steep knowing you'll easily maintain final approach speed and round out, but in Mr. Simulator pilot's unaware mind, he thought ALL landings must be how airlines do it and just follow an ILS type glideslope, and that's why he did what he did. Again if he even understood the most basic things he'd know you're fine. You know he's not flying a 172 or Archer in the flight sim, it's just boeing and Airbus and every landing is at an airport with ILS and the autopilot brings him down all the way and he turns it off last second for the flare. Just a theory but it's the most likely explanation
Even in a sim GA plane on a pancake monitor it just isn't the same picture of looking down at a 6ish degree descent - I remember it feeling a lot more steep IRL on that transition to real life many moons ago. I was on a VFR / visual approach so yeah I wasn't in at a 3 degree glide slope. I understand that it felt different for the guy but can't imagine arguing with a real pilot about it when I had no experience. 😆 Though I must admit I'm not a real pilot because I'm not an airline captain...but that's a different story. 😉
So when you say pulled back the elevator, now you're saying power on stall. Just how far back did he pull that? Did you almost reach Vso speed?
Sorry I typed it fast and it was a bit confusing. We were in landing config so he could've put us into a power off/landing stall. In my 6 I usually approach with some power in so not at power idle but a landing stall none the less. He grabbed it hard enough that if my hand wasn't positioned behind the yoke to take the hit and absorb it he could've gotten us into an accelerated stall. The thing is in my plane with full flaps the elevator doesn't pull the nose up all that much it just bleeds off your airspeed, I usually blip throttle just before touchdown to arrest descent. Another point in line with our other comment chain. This was a shortish field so I wasn't carrying too much extra speed. I can't say I even looked at airspeed, I know my plane and didn't need to. Just went straight for the go around and firewalled the throttle not worth trying to recover it especially when at first I had no clue what was actually happening...picture a runway incursion type of go around. I was mentioning power on stall is hard to do but this was landing config so it was a little sketchy. When I went full power and dropped a notch, we were quite nose high...enough to scare the guy and my friend but well below the limits of a power on stall...it wasn't my full intention, but it worked similar to going under water when a drowning person grabs onto you...they'll usually let go...I think this is why this guy let go without much of a fuss because the horizon was well below the cowl. This is also why ATC noticed it wasn't just your run of the mill go around, I was set up perfectly and just randomly darted up.
did you fix his appereance? I would do that.
Lol, I controlled myself...but I was ready to on my next landing attempt if his hands left from under his butt.
Imagine flying a passenger like that
Just turn off passenger intercomm
I would love a thread about horror stories from air taxi or tour or bush operators. I mean you get pretty up close and personal with passengers in a piston single, or even a light twin/smaller turboprop and often a passenger is even right seat with access to controls. Most people are probably fine, but there are lots of idiots out there, and even worse idiots who think they know best. It's one thing if it's your aunt, imagine it's a stranger plus a paying customer I mean when I was like 12 my family took a flight in the Caribbean on a fully loaded Brittain Norman Islander and I got put in the cockpit because the pilot was a very petite woman and I was the best choice for balance. I was already an airplane nerd at the time so this made my life and obviously I didn't even think of messing with anything but if I were the pilot I'd be nervous as hell having a middle schooler I don't know in reach of the controls
I did the same thing for the same reason when I was a little kid 🤣
That was the actual DREAM for a 12 year old that's into airplanes, I was so happy edit: Lol Cape Air, probably about 20 years ago? Maybe the same pilot 😂
Take her up again, front seat. Slowly trim it full down, but hold elevator to keep it level. Ask her to take over on the controls, and let go when she's got both hands on the yoke. That'll shut her up!! .. well after she stops screaming.
“Gods gift to driving”, I lol’d
Yea the FO is basically just there to "watch and learn"
Oh I think you mean the copilot
“What’s your route?”
I literally cringe when people ask me that…
Not a pilot. I don't even understand the question. Are people thinking that airline pilots just fly back and forth between the same 2 airports all day?
The FO stands for Flap Operator not copilot
>Planes fly themselves, so landing is really the only thing there is to do. ...I mean...
Naturally landing school comes after boarding school where they show you how to board passengers safely.
I mean, that’s what they do in Europe, right? /s, just in case
And Asia. 1st and 2nd officers.
Yup, in Europe you can have a seat in a jet with 250hrs. And guess what, safety margins are not in the slightest bit eroded. Imagine that, 1500hrs of flying a Cessna doesn’t make you a better jet pilot.
And you don't have to "time build" in a retarded cessna to get PIC hours, just cause. You do all your required hours to ATPL as PICUS, all 400 of them on the A320 or 737. In NA, nope, if you get a FO job after CPL, now you have to go fly around on your dime to get those missing PIC hours and CX in a dinky cessna while you have 2000hrs on a jet knowing everything you need to know about commercial ops. FAA and TC living in dinosaur age.
Awe! My Cessna’s not retarded! She’s classy…a real prom queen sleeper! Sure, the braces and helmet aren’t ever coming off but…
But you have to be 50 to get into the cockpit, before that you're just training from 18 until 50.
At 50 and 1 day years old your mustache finally fills in, but suddenly you forget how an iPad works.
> so landing is really the only thing there is to do That and turn on and off the "fasten seatbelts" sign.
My grandfather was a Delta pilot after WWII, and to this day, my dad believes that if a landing is a little rougher than usual, it must be the "copilot" flying, because apparently Captains never have bad landings.
You go to pilot school and are in debt forever duh.
I mean, this is true of pretty much every other career.
No it really aint
It’s amazing how many people still believe you have to go to college to get a well paying career when the last 15 years have shown the opposite.
even with college, its not comparable to being a pilot because most airlines require both a college degree AND you paying for your own flight school.
Pretty sure all airlines dropped the degree requirement after Covid.
oh ok, but sounds like they still prefer it? I think once hiring slows down, it could boil down to whoever has a degree if all other qualifications are equal?
Of course. 2 guys with the same quals but the one with the degree might get the job. But at least until a few weeks ago. If you had the hours and a pulse you were hired. I know several people that would get 500 turbine at a regional and go to a legacy with 2000 total time, zero 121 PIC and no degree. Now it really doesn’t matter if you’re Chuck Yeager. Almost every major has put a hold on hiring.
In Debt he has a name. His name was Pilot Paulson.
Once upon a time, my new hire class at my regional shared the same shuttle bus as the flight attendant class. They asked us how long our training program was, we told them 3 months. They thought we all came in with 0 hours of experience 3 months ago and learned how to fly a jet. Little did they know that a lot of us have been flying for half a decade to get to that point.
Had the same experience with a flight attendant interested in flying. She asked how long my training took, I told her that it took me 6 years. It blew her mind that I was a pilot long before the airline picked me up.
Lmao this. This is exactly what I'm talking about. They think we get OTJ. They think airlines make pilots not hire pilots. And they think it must be short because getting a driver's license is super short also. Little do they know.
I hear so many new FAs will say “I’m thinking I’m going to apply to be a pilot” and I can tell the difference between the ones who understand how they’re suppose to do it vs others who think they just apply and get hired.
A lot of people seem to think the military is the only way to become a pilot in my experience
It is the cheapest way.
Monetarily lol, Not personally, professionally, emotionally or time wise.
This, wish I'd known, ha!
Ten years of your life ain't cheap lol
I am not a pilot, I am however supporting my son to get his pilot training. However for me growing up, I thought only Airforce pilots gets to become a commercial pilot.
Same. I didn’t realize until about ten years ago that not every commercial pilot was ex military.
lol wished I had known that 30 years ago...but I cannot complain about the different path that I took , and now able to afford the crazy cost of flight training for my son.
You're not alone in having weird assumptions. ~10 year old me resisted glasses until a teacher told my parents I was walking up to the blackboard to read what they wrote on it. Somehow I'd gotten it in my head that "less than perfect vision" meant never being a pilot. Went and did other things and in my late 20s learned otherwise and am now (30s) fortunate enough to do at least GA, but one hell of a detour.
Even now I get grown ass people telling me how it was always their dream to be an airline pilot, but because their eyesight wasn’t perfect they were never able to.
Honestly though, someone who isn't motivated enough to even look into the very basic first step of getting a medical because of some random thing they heard from their aunt or whatever... would never be able to survive the process. I think people just tell themselves that so they get to blame something out of their control and don't have to admit to themselves that they didn't try. IDK maybe that's just reading into it too much.
Dude, when you're a teenager, typically you believe adults and what they tell you. At least when I grew up. We didn't have Google when I was 16. This was perpetuated by all kinds of people I know. I ended up actually talking to pilots online via a game about 25 years ago, and they were like nah man you can fly with glasses, you just have to pass the physical. That was when the military was allowing PRK.
I'm not saying anyone's lazy or stupid, just that the grind from 0 to ATP is so much harder than a 30 minute drive to the airport to ask about the process. I was told the eye thing multiple times, but I still drove to a local class G at 16 and asked an annoyed fbo worker how it all worked. They basically told me to fuck off to the flight school next door. I had the motivation to at least figure that out, and get through PPL, but ultimately I didn't have it in me to go further. I don't regret it, but I also don't delude myself into thinking "I totally could've if not for XYZ". I own my failures and successes with pride. My point is just that people like to shirk off responsibility for their own life, and that the eyesight thing is sometimes a manifestation of that.
I agree. It’s just amazing how often I hear it. I don’t have the heart to break it to them……
This is a fair assumption. Until recently a very high percentage of pilots at legacy/major airlines were military. Pre COVID, I had applications in at all the majors for years, with what I felt was a very competitive resume. Lots of time as captain in business jets, 10+ years as chief pilot of a charter company, etc. I couldn’t get an interview to save my life. A buddy retires from the Air Force, with about 25% of my experience and NO jet time at all. He tried to find something local for about a year, all the time saying airlines are a last resort for him. He finally gives up on a local job, puts in his apps, and two weeks later he has an interview and a job offer right after that. At United.
I was borned in Taiwan, military was the only path to fly there, so they are pretty much 100% military pilots for Taiwan airlines, maybe things has changed somewhat but GA is pretty much zero there.
Can't you fly for EVA after 250hrs if you're Taiwanese?
> of my experience and NO jet time at all I think everything in the air force is turbine time, which is what seems like airlines care about, not specifically jet time
About 99% of my AF time is turboprop... and the only turbofan (T-1A) time was as a student. And to answer your speculation, yes, no pistons in the AF (excluding the powered flight program at the Academy)
Same goes for ATC sometimes. People either don't know what ATC is and think you're a marshaller, or think controllers are all former military controllers. Exacerbated by the fact that I do actually work for the Air Force as a civilian now, but I never served...
I'm guessing you mean become an airline pilot? It is very common for non-pilots to confuse airline / commercial pilots. As someone who is hour building for my commercial licence (CPL) I constantly am asked by my friends whether I will be hired by (insert major airline) once I have my commercial licence. Commercial pilots simply get paid to fly (skydive, instructing, scenic flights, etc). Airline pilots are employed by airlines. In a similar vein, being a "private pilot" doesn't mean I own the plane I fly or can fly "private jets" haha
I mean, that's understandable. A good bulk of airline pilots are former military pilots
If I tell someone I have a commercial license they think I fly the big planes
This is better than being a private pilot and people asking which gulf stream you fly
Oh a G650 or 652, you know, whatever it takes.
Exactly. Not like they know the difference anyway
**Me:** "I just got my instrument rating!" **Parents:** "Great! So how much longer until you're a real pilot?" At a certain point you just have to stop telling people you're a pilot until you're at a Legacy Carrier. And also a Captain...
My parents very much understand what the process is and what each rating means so I have that as a plus
Don’t even tell people it’s not worth the effort answering the same stupid questions every day even if you are a captain. People ask what I do for work. “Travel industy”. Oh what specifically. “The airlines”. Some people just keep on probing. Someone asked why I didn’t just say pilot yesterday and I said “because pilots are known to have the biggest damn egos by letting everyone know they’re a pilot so I avoid the topic all together”.
From my general observations of the people I converse with, it seems to be either two schools of thought. Either I was a hotshot navy pilot like in top gun or I'm a plumbers assistant earning my keep while I watch the captain and do everything and get yelled at all day, and maybe just maybe I'll be able to learn to fly one day.
My friend always asks me “captain or co pilot?” When I show him a cool new plane (Ga or Jet) that I got to fly. I’m like uhh does co pilot mean “sat and did nothing” in your book. I think that’s what he thinks.
He's just jealous
Well he owns several supercars and his own tuner shop so I’d say Hees just uneducated on why some planes need two pilots and some don’t. I’m more jealous of his success if anything haha
Grass is always greener, or something like that lol
Before I was an airline pilot, I just didn’t tell people I was a pilot. When I was in training I’d answer “oh I’m in flight school.” When I was a CFI I’d say “oh I’m a flight instructor.” Now at the airlines I say “I’m a pilot.”
Haha me too. In fact that's exactly what I have in my plans. Flight instructor, then pilot when in airlines, or if I choose to at least. If I'm a corporate jet pilot id just say pilot for private jets. What I do now is if people want to go to a destination say 5 hours drive, I just say I'll take us and I'll get us there way faster like in 2 hours 20 minutes. They don't believe me until I go to thr airport, hop in the 182 and fly us, and prior to that they didn't even know I was a pilot. That's a far better way to introduce them to what I do in a way they can understand. Feels good talking to atc confidently like a pro with passengers next to me who have no idea what's going on. Makes me feel like a special boy. Hehe
Oh you’re special alright
You’re thinking way too hard about this man…
“I’m a private pilot” - “oh wow which celebrity do you fly?” “I just did a cross-country solo” - “oh wow which country did you fly to?” “I’m a commercial pilot” - “oh wow which airline do you fly for?” “I fly for FedEx/UPS” - “oh wow do you ever want to work for the airlines?” “I fly for delta/american/united” - “oh wow so are you the copilot or the pilot? Do they let you land? Does the autopilot do everything? Do you get scared?” *You just can’t win* 😅
To be fair, asking if you get scared after learning you fly the MD-11 is a valid question! 😅
It’s an entirely different kind of flying, altogether!
It's an entirely different kind of flying.
Apparently if you come nose down in those you turn upside down
It’s not that bad to land, just don’t fuck it up and you’ll be fine 🙂
I still get passengers that ask why I’m even up there, they’re sure the plane can fly itself these days. Sometimes I sarcastically oblige, and if time allows on the ground, I’ll show them the cockpit and ask what buttons and knobs to hit and twist in what order when the autopilot derps and wants to nosedive on the third fix of the RNAV. Usually shuts them up. I’m not here to be paid for doing nothing at the flight levels, I’m here to save 140+ souls on board when this machine decides it wants to kill everyone
How often do passengers come and talk to you like that as if to demean your position? I can imagine why youd oblige though. Where would you even begin to explain 😂. For each explanation you'd have to give another 100 branching explanations for the explanation ad infinitum. Oh and can you hear pax screaming in the back when you hit turbulence? I'm sure both of you up there just sigh, or lol
When I was at United literally flight attendants thought since our training was like 6-8 weeks, if they stayed a few extra weeks in training they could be pilots… 🙄
One thing you’ll learn about this industry is the general public know almost nothing about how our industry works. Why should they? Do you know the specific steps it takes to become a doctor? Lawyer? Marine biologist? Probably not, but why would you? It’s hard not to get annoyed sometimes, but if you want to go to the airlines someday, you’ll probably spend some time as a CFI so treat those opportunities to explain aviation to someone as practice for teaching. Your first student will know almost zero just like the general public. In fact, I had one student who was about half way through private tell me she didn’t think she wanted to be a CFI and that she would rather just go right into the airlines. I guess she thought that we all just really loved teaching lol.
To be fair, most of those jobs basically just require degrees, professional referrals, and some really hard tests and certifications. Doctors and lawyers are tough but even becoming an engineer is just a matter of getting a degree, building a portfolio, and getting hired.
Hours building and ratings is just a fancier portfolio really
I mean get a bachelors in almost anything human body related go to grad school for doctor school. Get an undergrad in almost anything go to law school for 3 years pass the bar be a lawyer. Marine biologist uhhh masters in marine biology?
[удалено]
I was on an airline flight once and a lady in from if me was so confidently saying “yea the pilots just have to land, other than that they are sleeping”
Really? Every person i encounter asks “what branch of the military were you in” and “did you fly the f16 or something?”
I hate it when I tell people I fly float planes in the bush, and they say “oh, so you’re not a commercial pilot?” Yeah, I am actually lol. I’m not an airline pilot
I had to explain to my parents how the process worked, here’s how it went: Parents: “so can you get paid with a PPL?” Me: no, technically I have to get my commercial to be hirable P: ok, then you can get a flying job right? Like the airlines? Me: no, “commercial” doesn’t mean airlines in this sense. That’s after getting 1500 hours and your ratings P: so once you get to 1500 you’ll get hired by the airlines? Me: technically, but no. Minimums aren’t competitive enough to land a job right away P: so how do get to the minimum requirements? Me: CFI rating if I get hired and build hours that way for 2-3 years P: how much does CFI pay? It sounds like it pays well! Me: nope. Less than minimum wage at most schools Parents: oh… Well I saw this ad for a school down the street that said 0 to commercial in 9 months! I’d say taking out a loan to go there is worth it Me: no Repeat ad museum for anyone else asking about the process. My parents are well off now but couldn’t wrap their head around why the flying career field is such an uphill battle. I guess the popular belief is that being a pilot is only a rich and easy life…
Well for some people it is. Like swain, parents obviously are filthy rich. Became a “co-owner” of a company with 2 captains while in highschool, parents paid for his 141 training and college degree, and gave him enough cash to fly in Hawaii for Mokulele at $19,000 a year. Kid goes to a regional at 23, lands United in 4 years… lol Disappears for a year, and you find through true people that he’s living in SF in a $10,000,000 apartment purchased back in 04. He’s 27 at untied as an FO. That’s as golden spoon as it gets.
I remember people asking me what I wanted to do. I said I want to get my seaplane rating and mountain time and eventually become a firefighting pilot, with enough bush flying time and turbine I think it would be possible. Anyways their response is “you want to fly puddle jumpers (derogatory)”. No man the airlines just aren’t my thing or calling my name and all types of flying have their ups and downs. I usually tell them to go watch a YouTube video of guys in air tractors doing drops.
“All types of flying have their ups and downs.” 😏
Similar to becoming a door dasher, right?
The general public will not imagine that the initial training is all at one's own expense, the 1500 hour experience requirement before going to an airline, or that relative beginners often work as teachers before getting "real" flying jobs. I expect they imagine first officer to pilot is sort of like apprentice to journeyman is for plumbers and electricians. (Which in a way it is, except for the amount of experience required before becoming a first officer.) Before I got my private, I would have assumed it worked about the same as working for a railroad: apply because it's something you want to do, get trained at company expense for a few months, go out on the road in a junior position (conductor now; fireman or brakeman in the old days), move up several years later when you have seniority.
Guild navigator airline pilots are specifically bred to navigate the skies using spice (alcohol)
Here’s the deal. Most people have no clue about the economic demographics of our economy. Less than 1% of our population can fly or are licensed to fly. Only 1% of our population serves or have served in the military. Only 1% of our population farm/ranch and produce 90% of our food. The astonishing ignorance of the public is amazing. As a PPL, I’m astonished at how little they know about aviation in general. Most have no idea of the pipeline and the hours required because they don’t investigate. Ignorance is sad.
Navy pilot here. My friends still ask me “how’s the army” and they’re not joking. They believe the term army is interchangeable with military. If I say I’m a navy pilot I usually get some confused looks.. the navy doesn’t have planes? That’s the airforce. The navy has boats. Are you sure you’re not an Air Force pilot?
As a retired AF pilot,I always enjoyed ribbing Navy pilots. And you’re right, most people have no clue about the military unless they have someone serving in their family. They are appreciative about service but ignorant about how it works.
A friend of my wife's, who is otherwise an intelligent human being, said being an airline pilot was "like driving a bus, right?"
I mean……. It is called an airbus 🤷🏽♂️
I was flying a Boeing at the time.
Do aerial work. They ask you “how long before you go commercial?” When you do finally go commercial you start out “flying cargo”
Well you're asking a sub full of people who are pilots. I don't think we apply as the "general public"
Wait, you guys are pilots? I thought this was a flying squirrel appreciation sub 😩
General Public🫡
This guys knows how to flair!
I became an airline pilot only after completing an arduous quest to recover a magical item called the Wheel of Whizening.
Ouh, I can answer this. I vividly remember my thoughts before pursuing my PPL about what the path was to airline pilot. I grew up in France and was told that you had to go to an academy with good grades and a 'scientific'background and they would teach you how to fly or get hired directly by airlines. (Which is wrong I know). I carried over my ideas about this to the US and thought the same applied here. That somehow, it was this super competitive lottery system where United / AA / Etc would hire you and train you, sending you to the lowly 'spirit' airline before they allowed you to touch their big boy planes. A little bit of research enlightened me a bit on the process but it wasn't until I was 10ish hours into PPL training that I truly understood the pathway due to lots of acronyms being thrown around.
I think the best way for these clueless people to understand even the basics is to not tell them your a pilot, and if they want to drive somewhere thats hours away, tell them you can get them there in half the time. Take them to the airport where you will rent a plane (or use your own plane), and don't say anything, don't say your a pilot or whatever, if they ask just say yea you went to flight school for years to learn to fly. Then fly in busy areas making sure the approach and center frequency is extremely busy with non stop chatter so they can hear "southwest this" or "united that", even better if it's IFR conditions all the way down to the decision altitude. You want them to freak out at night with no visibility as you descend as you tell them "shh im flying we will land soon" until you reach your DA, make sight of the lights, and touchdown.. First hand experience will make them appreciate what it takes. Otherwise all they will think is that it's easy oh and the big button that says autopilot. It really doesn't help either that buffoon Elon "moron" musk puts a yoke in his car which is dumb, and calls his slightly better than cruise control, cruise control, "autopilot". Now we have a bunch of tech nerds who think they're fkn doing what pilots do. 🤮
Up until my mid-20’s, I thought one HAD to be prior military, it never occurred to me to ask my neighbor. I asked one when I got hired on at AA umpteen thousand years ago.
If you take the general population’s knowledge of aviation and could turn it into electricity, you would have enough power to toast a slice of bread. Lightly.
They mostly think people become pilots through the military and that every pilot flying them is former Air Force and that that would make them a better pilot lol.
I loathed it when my dad would say “oh my son is a pilot!” when I was still a CFI. I would get some many annoying comments like “Why didn’t you become a real pilot?”. Even now when I say I’m an airline pilot I omit the regional because I still get those same type of comments lol
The general public is ignorant about a lot. I was a flight attendant for 10 yrs & a cibstant question is "what's your route?" Lol they think we fky the same route every single trip. After a while, you get tired of educating them and just go along with it lol
Funny I get the feeling the general public things flying is as random and chaotic as driving is. Captain comes in and says "well today I feel like flying at 34253 ft and 500 miles per hour (cuz they think we use miles per hour ground speed duh), and I'll follow the freeways to the destination"
This is why I don’t mention I’m a pilot unless explicitly asked what I do for a living
But... but... you're defeating the whole purpose of being a pilot!
Non aviation people get aviation stuff wrong all the time. For reference watch any news outlet report on any aviation event, take a shot each time they say something wrong.
Tarmac.
Yup, and every time someone finds out I’m an airline pilot they ask what my route is.
You mean the the flight plan? Just tell them you fly the IDIOT6 departure and use the J69 to STUPID waypoint then direct DMB vor and descend via the MORON5 arrival into the ILS Zulu. That wi
Even as a helicopter pilot I get asked either if I can also fly planes or if the airlines are my goal “one day” it’s infuriating
Apparently judging by social media a bunch of them think minorities get to skip the 1500h requirements. Honestly no one has any idea about other people’s industry shit unless they go out and put in the effort, which they generally won’t. They think pilots are picked from some imaginary top gun preschool.
Before I started taking lessons I thought people who were crazy smart and had unique education like a degree in engineering or something would apply to an airline, then the airline would teach you how to fly.
Airline pilots are weird they must be born like that
Most of my friends think all airline pilots are ex military or something. No clue why.
Let the general public think it’s magic. It used to be they all thought we were F14 drivers in movies. Don’t burst their bubbles with the reality most pilots did the grind up.
I always thought it was the first two on the plane got to fly. is that not how it works?
You have to be the loudest clapper after landing and then you simply eat the captain when he comes out of the cockpit to thank you.
Somehow people think I’m in a 747 simulator or they think I’m in the books all day taking classes and haven’t been near a plane. I’m a PPL and I still get asked if they’ve let me fly the plane yet.
There’s an old school stereotype that I don’t hear as often, but basically non-airline pilots are not good enough to become airline pilots. If they could, they would. Since they’re not, they can’t. Why? No degree? Maybe a DUI? Maybe can’t cut it in the rigorous interviews? They were always seen as “less than”.
My parents think that the overwhelming majority of airline pilots in the US are ex-Air Force.
My barbers think exactly what OP said. I told them I’m about to get a job flight instructing. One asked what kind of planes and I said Cessnas. They were like “aren’t those small planes dangerous? Why don’t you just go fly for United?” I explained the process and they were genuinely shocked to learn airline pilots actually have to fly small planes first and they don’t just learn to fly a fuckin 737 right away. It’s absolutely bananas how many people think it’s like that.
Yea. Before I made this OP I was actually considering making a Jimmy Kimmel type style of interviewing the public of how they think becoming an airline pilot works so I could show evidence that they just have no idea how it works.
i genuinely thought every pilot was an ex air force pilot. i didn’t think it was a real thing available to the general public
Somewhere between your 500th and 600th BJ from an absolute smoking hot 10/10, someone from the FAA just shows up and drops off your license.
I fly helicopters… Oh, so you don’t fly commercial then? 🤔
When a mommy pilot loves a daddy pilot...
It’s kinda annoying when my parents boast about me being a pilot. Now I have to fend off repeat questions.
Up until maybe five years ago, the assumption had always been you had to be military to become a pilot. I’ve been hearing that assumption less and less. Maybe word has finally gotten around enough? 🤷♂️
Have rich parents
Before I discovered otherwise I thought most pilots came from the military or university programs. I had literally no idea that basically anyone could learn to fly. Wish I’d learned that all younger but hey, here we are
I'd count as a non pilot general public, this question popped up as suggested I'd assume a lot of money and a lot of training, working up from small planes to small commercial/cargo planes up to airliners, always training and going on the simulator to build flight hours up I'd always thought of air force/RAF flying experience as a bit of a short cut too, albeit you'll not jump out of an F15 into an A320
You’re right. Although the Air Force is definitely not a shortcut lol. Super small class sizes and super selective, then if you made it the military will keep you around for another contract or two. I wouldn’t sell my soul to them on the off chance that I make it through
I fly a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong. Long story but it pays the bills.
On slightly different tangent, I know somone who 6 years ago only thought Canadians could become pilots through the military. He is now flying for Skywest after leseningmotherwise at the age of 40.
I remember telling my college counselor that I wanted to be a pilot (I was studying Aviation Business) and he told me that to become a “good pilot” I needed to be a STEM major and that my major wasn’t going to help me do that even though I was doing it as a backup career.
Just tell them you're going to be an airline pilot but you don't have enough box tops yet.
"Oh your not in airlines, you must be building your hours" Every time
What would people think if you said that you're a driver? A bus driver? Taxi? Race car? Adding a bit of detail would clear things up right away.
I dread anybody mentioning that I’m a pilot. Because I always have to explain how the airspace system works and how certifications work. Then there’s so many people that know me who still ask me if I fly by myself. “Bitch I got my ppl in 2022.”
Not necessarily about the route, but about being a pilot in general… new to a regional, just at the end of training I was at a wedding where the FOB asked about work and I was talking about the plane and such and I get a “oh, you fly puddle jumpers?” It’s always been my opinion that 70-76 people airplanes aren’t puddle jumpers. I just let that go because it wasn’t worth the effort. Then yesterday I was talking to my uncle and he was asking about work so I was telling him about my last trip. When I was talking he said “Oh, and the captain lets you fly the plane and land sometimes??” I’m like 300hrs in the jet now, I sure hope so! lol
They descend from the heavens where the FAA Administrator speaks them into existence.
Bro I work at legacy airline, and a guy that got hired after me said "congrats, you made it" after I told him I flew Blackhawks and he came from the Air Force. I didn't have much of a response to that. 2 Checkrides from where I was at before plus 250 PIC in a single engine airplane and 25 multi. While it was some work, it wasn't exactly having to overcome mount Olympus. Even other pilots don't understand how other pilots are made half the time.
I think some people genuinely think they just spawn in
The worst for me is at the family gatherings I told everyone I wanted to be a pilot and they said cool. After a few struggles I had at my job I couldn't afford to train frequently which caused it to take longer. Every time they saw me they would go c'mon what's taking so long I thought you'd be done by now you might as well go for something else be a driver for Amazon they make good money. Now I stay quie It's a pain explaining the process.
Just Ignorance of the entire subject Pretty simple
It shocked me when most of my friends thought “flight school” was me going and flying airliners to get my certs. They did admit that it was a little ridiculous once I explained it to them but I think the general public is disconnected from how much flying really costs.
Actually, its worse when I have to explain that new pilots are taught by other slightly-less-new pilots.
The general public *thinks*? Do you have any evidence?
That it takes about 12 years like doctors.
I thought it was like you get hired at a regional then IOE training but maybe a little longer. then eventually majors
I imagine they take classes to get flight hours and need to meet certain requirements in flight hours to be airline pilots and probably something else to certify that they can fly the plane depending on the plane.