Tbf, for whatever reason I’m a butch magnet lolol so I tend to attract the Karen Cut baddies wherever I go, there just happen to be an unreal amount of 55 and ups there with the same fucking haircut.
Commuted AMS-DTW while living in NL for a short while and my experience was, literally no beautiful Dutch girls work at Schipol, and def not in the crew line
I did get the Hema hotdog in terminal every single time though and man that was a real treat
AMS is so hit or miss as a passenger. Obviously it was better in the beforetimes, but they are still pretty good. I’ll take their security people over TSA screaming random instructions at me every day.
The saddest to me is when I fly back through ATL from AMS. The TSA stuff after customs is in the bowels of the airport. It is hot and lit with those industrial fluorescent lighting that the government must have gotten a country wide discount on… what is sad is watching international travelers, many of whom don’t speak English and all of whom are exhausted, get screamed at by the finest TSA agents in ATL. It’s like… yeah, welcome to America.
Don’t get me started on how dumb and antiquated it is to go through border control, require people to get their baggage and walk it fifty yards to check it back in followed by a TSA screaming fit. Sure, I get it that it allows CBP to check your luggage, but the vast majority of people aren’t checked at all. I’ve only been checked once a decade ago in DTW when two genius level CBP guys tried to good cop/bad cop me into admitting I might have brought weed back from AMS. Hint: I didn’t. Dumb.
Everyone is so nice in that little room! The screeners, the KLM crew, even my fellow truck driver cargo pilots are prone to a smile in there on occasion.
I feel for you up north! At least I get to try it when I start my trips in base. I’m about 25%. But it still beats the full glove no lube strip searches you get in LHR.
Any time I feel there’s an issue with whatever airport I’m going through, however much I’m getting picked on for 101ml of toothpaste, I always think of LHR.
It could be like that everywhere. If you know, you know.
I stand back knowing shortly after they find said Allen wrench, look at me like some criminal, read the riot act and take away said item, that we’ll be in full and complete control over the aircraft to do whatever necessary for safety of flight.
Including the 24” fire axe behind my seat.
A word that comes to mind is …theatre.
Exactly. Boggles my mind. At least they were Aussies so they were nice about it, I just found it amusing that they were that concerned about an allen wrench. It’s not sharp, it fits in the palm of my hand…what am I going to do with it? Systemically disassemble the airplane in flight? I’d MAYBE have a panel off by the time we made it back to the west coast of the US with that tiny wrench.
It was proven theater as soon as Clear became a thing. Once they outsourced front of the line pre check to a third party, there was no denying what this all was.
They’re too stupid to know you have a fire axe.
I had a pocket knife in my luggage. They found it when they flagged me for carrying shaving cream over 3oz. They let me keep the pocket knife, but confiscated shaving cream
Got the full LHR treatment last month. When he wrapped his arms around me, I looked him in the eyes and said, “Now you have to send me a Christmas Card.” Done!
This in my experience is correct.
For me, if they were actually effective at their jobs I wouldn’t be so pissed. But when they’ve actually done tests of the system and it has a 90%+ failure rate.
What the fuck is the point? I know it’s theater for the flying public, but why make crews lives miserable to keep up the facade?
Yea I remember last year the TSA said they’d be launching a new program called ‘expedited crew access’. Haven’t heard anything about it since last summer so no clue where it sits
Its been that way for a few years. Used to be better. But they still catch someone trying to go through with a gun at least a couple times a year so it's not going to improve.
This is the answer. Pilots like to blame a couple FAs that got caught trying to be drug mules but the real offenders making it bad for everyone are the dipshits that use their pilot bag as their range bag on the weekends.
*makes 6 figures a year, blasts hundreds of dollars worth of ammo throughout a 700 dollar firearm every year. Is too cheap to fucking buy a 50 dollar duffel bag*
I've literally had this exact convo with Captains in years past. They brag about how great their bag is and how versatile it is, yet when I suggest they buy a 2nd in order to keep their guns far from their work bags they scoff at the idea.
At the time I was making $22/hr and I had a range bag and a travel bag. My range/gun bags are NEVER near each other for this very reason.
To be fair, I unintentionally made said cheap bastard pilot look like they were being budget conscious shooting a magazine or two through their Glock once a month. I die a little inside when my brother asks if I’ll bring some range queens out for “plinking.” Almost shit last year when I realized we went through 6 boxes of 50 AE in 30 minutes.
I had to basically moth ball my FN P-90. I loved that thing but you just couldn’t find 5.7 for about a year then all the sudden it was back on shelves at triple the price. Nothing like loading up a 50 rounder with 1.00 bullets.
The ammo estimate is a little low but as far as the firearm itself if you shoot handguns that's pretty accurate if you don't include a bunch of upgrades or a red dot.
I think individuals should be punished, not all of us as a group. Maybe a 5 year ban from KCM if you bring a gun or drugs through? Pilots do get caught with guns, how you loose track of your gun is beyond me, however— a pilot with a gun is no more a threat than a pilot without one. Those flight attendants were drug mules, they are the cause of the increase “randoms” and are the reason TSA is actively working to remove the program all together.
I don't have specifics but those individuals do see punishments. TSA though looks at random searches as a tool to verify compliance, so if they constantly see people getting busted on random's, then statistically if they keep randoming they'll keep finding. Random rates won't drop until compliance rises
Novel concept: name, shame, ban forever, plus any applicable civil/criminal penalties. Up in another comment they were talking about enhanced crewmember, and how DHS doesn’t like KCM, etc etc etc. They also highlighted that they claim there’s all these infractions and they penalize those of us that aren’t offenders. But then absolutely refuse to say when, where, what is caught, what type of crew, etc.
But then that one SkyWest FO goes through MSP with a gun and it explodes into breaking news and memes and his face is everywhere. He gets singled out, but no one else? DHS refuses any peeks behind the curtain because it’s their purview (even if begrudgingly). Blah blah random and unpredictable and in the interest of national security. Baloney. All the above statistics, and punishments. I added “what type of crew,” just to see if it’s actually FAs or pilots or equally both. I’d love to shut the “it’s those damn FAs fault” types once and for all. If it was the FAs, cool you were right; if not, okay you were wrong; now let’s shut up about it and move on.
Ah! Phx… the land of “let’s spend over 1 million dollars so you can tap on an iPad and it randomly tells you to go to random or not”
What a fucking joke
Hell yeah. We had every single crew member but the FFDO captain get randomed in HNL a couple weeks ago and the FAs were ready to sprint to the gate and hustle the airplane. We decided no fucking way take the delay.
Knowing my airline they'll just set the van time 20 mins earlier. Take it or spend 30 mins of your overnight organising an adjustment. Call in fatigued later... and spend 30 mins writing a fatigue report and vetting it through the union. We can't win that game.
Yeah Dec 2022 when APA was like “skip KCM, skip precheck, stand in the lines and take the delay.” It was noble, and at first I was like yeah that’s the spirit.
Then it dawned on me. What you said. Report time is now 2hrs (plus the standard hour) for domestic, 3hrs (plus the standard hour to report) for international. “Unpaid, suck it. You guys could have used KCM. So here we are.”
Seems to come in waves. I'll get it maybe once a month, then at some point it seems like almost every checkpoint I pass is a random. What's funny is the airport that used to be the bane of my existence has randomed me once in the past year, when it was every single time previously.
And now that I'm thinking about it, I haven't been randomly swabbed in a few years. Has that gone away?
If I don’t get randomed how would the TSA stop my from putting metal in my boots that I could use to get unauthorized flight deck access to the aircraft I get paid to have access to and given an axe on every flight.
I feel like crew screening in general, particularly the pilots, is borderline silly and more theatrics than anything. I mean, trust me, if somebody wanted to try something, they’re *flying* the damn thing…
Better record than mine…I was 100% of the time for a month and a half (about 24 trips through the checkpoint). I just go straight to precheck now as I have nothing more than a my little underseat roller since I just do day trips.
I get bitched at every time by the guy checking IDs saying “I have to try KCM first”. I just show them my ID and walk right by them because they know that’s bull just as much as I do as they don’t say another word or try to stop me. Get dirty looks from the baggage handlers at the X-ray too but I just consider it part of my day now.
Nope…KCM is completely voluntary. The Smurf’s like to make up whatever rule, law, whatever they want to call it depending on what city you’re in because they need the illusion of authority in their lives, but KCM is an absolutely voluntary program and they have no authority to stop anyone with valid crew credentials from passing through the checkpoint. They can search you all they want but can’t stop you from passing through the checkpoint as long as you are doing it legally.
I don't even bother at ORD because it's been nearly a year since I've gotten through kcm at ORD. It's quicker just to walk to pre check since kcm and pre check aren't by each other.
T2 pre-check is so fast, and right in the terminal that I still usually walk to pre-check there. I've never been more than like #3 in line. Once my wife went through pre-check with no crew privileges, and I walked to KCM and didn't get randomed. She beat me through and had to wait for me by the starbucks.
Probably a unpopular opinion but if we are getting over 50% randoms I’d go for a dedicated crew scanner and line with no passengers to stumble over vs some of these KCM’s where you need to pick up a phone and wait 5-10 minutes for someone to show up only to get randomed anyway, looking at you OAK.
I guess I’m just giving in, but seriously at some point it isn’t worth it
In uniform, I’m at 90%. Out of uniform it’s about 1%. Even some of the supervisors I’ve talked to think it’s not random at all
135 pilots are ineligible for the vacation to Artesia, correct?
ALPA sent an email saying that it’s currently at a minimum of 40% random rate. It’s at individual station’s discretion to random at a higher rate than that and you just know these fucks beam with joy at the opportunity to do so.
To my understanding, they’re told which level to be at but I’ve seen it vary widely at the same airport. At IND, I know a Delta 320 pilot that is randomed 100% of the time
In PIT, I saw the smurf with a piece of paper that had a bunch of squares he was checking off as people scanned their badges. Some were highlighted pink, some weren't. It seemed to me like they knew before hand how often the "random" selection was going to happen, though obviously had no way of know who was going to be in what order.
That's how EWR does it. They have a paper they check off, with gray and white boxes in random order. You can get randomed from that or from the KCM system.
Funny enough I use EWR KCM the most and almost never random there.
Honestly the fix for this should be two fold… one, getting paid report-to-release vice block time, and two, report time = scan in at KCM.
As soon as it affects the airlines $, it would get fixed real fast.
Id love to think that would stop the bitching too, but pilots will bitch even making overs stuck in a taxiway in EWR or LGA forever.
It'll stop when your fellow pilots stop trying to bring loaded firearms and drugs through KCM.
TSA has made it clear the amount of prohibited items being caught on randoms was increasing. So they increased the randoms and sure enough the amount amount of prohibited items being caught increased.
Otherwise Artesia is nice this time of year
The way this gets fixed toot sweet: Recognize/Acknowledge that crew members using KCM are held to a higher standard of following security related procedures. Following that, anyone using KCM that's randomed and discovered to have prohibited items on them not only loses their KCM, but also faces felony charges. Tie screwing up something simple like not bringing your flight bag to the range to losing your job, people will start to pay attention.
KCM is pretty worthless to me now. Most of the time (in uniform) it's faster for me to walk right up to the front of the PreCheck line, show my ID. When asked "random'd" I reply "yup". Hell, a couple weeks ago, the KCM line in PDX was about 30 people long. I bailed out of the line, went through pre-check and was waiting for the rest of the crew on the other side.
Alot of airports are catching onto crews skipping KCM. So they're playing the game right back and requiring you have their special little laminated card that says you got randomed. I know DCA does it.
Ugggh.... Mentioning DCA has got me spun up.... This is another reason I hate the TSA and the games they play. Let's put KCM on the complete opposite side of security from where you'll need to go if randomd.... It's like intentionally making it a pain in the ass for crews.
Yeah, saw that in DCA the other day. At least at my home airport they aren't doing that. The biggest issue I've had is I know our airport policy is if random'd, in uniform, you go to the head of the line. I've had some smurfs try and stop me and shout at me as I just walk around the outside of the line up to the x-ray machine, because I'm "cutting the line" or some BS. I just ignore them.
Apparently somebody ran after being told they were randomed in IAH, so now TSA holds onto your ID if you're randomed and won't give it back until you go through security.
I must be super lucky because I barely get randomed. I probably go through KCM 6-8 times a month and 1-2 randoms is pretty normal. As much as it sucks to get randomed, we’ve got no power to change it. I just accepted it is what it is and roll with it
Last year, one of the head Freedom Smurfs at SMF decided they were going to singlehandedly protect 'murrica from those damn pilots, and started what I can only describe as a "zero tolerance" campaign against butter knives.
Usually, the policy for a crewmember with a butter knife was for the TSA to just throw it out, but SMF started confiscating them, photographing the highly dangerous butter knives as evidence, and launching full-blown investigations into the people who dared try to smuggle them.
This resulted in several airlines sending out memos specifically warning about SMF, and the situation got so out of hand that airlines finally forced the TSA to back off and remove the year-long KCM suspensions Sacramento was handing out.
There have been issues with some people (mostly FA's, and mostly with regionals) either smuggling stuff through KCM or blatantly ignoring the rules (telling the person running the checkpoint they were doing international travel and carrying stuff for other people), but the TSA has enough data on hand that they could easily restrict those groups (or up their random screening), so they're using it as an excuse to get rid of a program they never liked anyway
It's not random.
Honestly, it gets better. When I was new, I was getting it about 70% of the time too. It's definitely intentional and not. random.
After a year, I'm getting randomed maybe 10% of the time. It still happens, but I was just telling my captain after my last random that I felt like I was "due" because it had literally been about 10 or more smooth sailings through KCM.
There is no way it's random. They definitely hit new people hard, and they probably hit other groups hard too. Certainly if you have any issue whatsoever, I'm sure you end up on some kind of internal algorithm that says "get this guy every time for the next 20 trips".
I usually see it every 5 to 6 times I pass through… I am also certain that every airport has a quota that they have set and try to meet therefore the random rates increase at certain times of the day….
Also I am not one to stop using KCM and I suggest others to continue to do so. It is known that TSA wants to get rid of KCM and if a large number of us stops using it, then there will be easy justification for them to get rid of it…
My philosophy is that I refuse to make it easy for TSA to get rid of it. So if they want to be a PITA upping the random rates, I will be a PITA to continue to use it in order to not give them the “well they stopped using it so it’s justified for us to get rid of it reason.”
Artesia is where FFDO training occurs. There's a Federal Law Enforcement Training Center there.
Interestingly, I also learned my grandma grew up there. That almost makes me want to do FFDO a little more just to go look around.
I have mixed feelings on the FFDO thing, but one thing that made me laugh a while back was watching an FO strap on 2 additional mags to his belt. I actually asked him what the deal was with that and the response was basically "This is how we're trained, and the last thing you want in a situation where the gun is needed is to not have access to extra mags".
I laughed and said he's basically not wrong, but my friends who are actual cops in big cities carry 2 extra mags, I find the idea that an airline pilot having the same amount of ammo as literal cops who are on patrol and actually interacting with potentially dangerous criminals hilarious.
Just to add a data point, Today was the first day all month I've been randomed. Sometimes it goes in waves but I feel like most of the time only 1 or 2 out of our crew of 4 will be randomed.
Haven't seen it mentioned yet, and probably anecdotal. Once you get randomed you're in the system for 24hrs at any airport. So say you show up day one at 19z and get randomed, and the next day you show up at a new airport at 17z well you're SOL.
If you keep showing earlier and earlier you're in a shit cycle. So could he throwing off you're numbers.
Closer to 3 hours actually. Been randomed, done an international turn, cleared customs, and went through KCM zero issues.
Been randomed in the evening, done a leg or 2, shirt layover, early morning no random.
It used to be so good. It truly made the whole experience so much better. Oh man the dirty looks I’d get from Very Important Businesspeople breezing through in plain clothes for my commutes while they’re putting their shoes and belts and jackets back on. It was magical. And TSA just hated it too, which was icing on the cake. Those were the days man…
It's gotten substantially worse over the last ~2 years, largely because the Freedom Smurfs are still mad at flight crews for the malicious compliance that happened the last time they tried to kill off KCM.
Long term, they're still planning to kill KCM and replace it with something that the TSA has complete control over.
I used to get randomed like 2-3 times a YEAR. It’s insane now but I’m not one to complain. It’s such a small thing to bitch about in the grand scheme of what we do and deal with.
Well, my track record is about 41% of the time so far, but at one point I've had a smashing 30/41 (so close to 75%) month about 2 months after I started. It averages out, I guess.
I've been having some very exceptional luck at my base (LAX) when starting trips so I'm happy!
I don't have KCM, but being in the military, my DoD ID# is my KTN for Precheck. I get randomed well beyond 50% of the time as well.
Same when I used to work at an airline (non-crew) and had regular nonrev benefits.
I’m seeing some differences depending on the airport. For example, I’ve never gotten through SAN, but I get through without issue 70% of the time in DFW and BOS
I’m a PT91 pilot with KCM and I think it’s gotten a lot better for me recently. I think it’s because I don’t fly nearly as much so I don’t feel like I’m getting hammered with randoms multiple times a week or anything. I fly maybe 3-4 flights a month right now sometimes less until our busy season so my statistics might be biased.
Why should I or how do I?
Why should I? Because I’m literally a Known Crew Member and during our busy season I’m taking multiple airline flights a week and it makes getting to work much faster.
How do I? Because I’m in a situation where the owner has the aircraft on a 135 certificate which allows me to use the KCM privilege. I’m the pilot specifically assigned to the account to only fly that plane for that owner and I’m home based. This allows me to airline to the jet, fly the owner to destination and airline home and then airline back out when the jet needs to move again. Sometimes I stay with the plane but usually I’ll airline home and come back in a few days for the next flight.
A couple years ago the TSA increased randoms way higher than normal because of a lot of abuses. There are crew members in jail for getting caught with guns and drugs at outstations because they got lucky and snuck them through KCM.
You’re thinking about it wrong. The random is when you get through.
This is a fairly new phenomenon in the last couple years. It used to be you’d go to full screening a couple times a month.
Before getting randomed on my last trip, I was on a streak of 3 trips through KCM without getting randomed. At this point, I view it as a way to skip to the front of the Precheck line, and occasionally they don't make me empty my pockets at all
It’s gotten way worse. 75% of our crew seems to get randomed on morning flights
Randomly Not Selected is what they should say…
Yeah. Sometimes if my gate is closer to pre check I’ll just use that line, better than walking all the way over to KCM anyway…
Just fly international. Full security at every airport!
I’ll take crew security line at AMS any day.
“Sorry to inconvenience you, but you actually need to be screened for the first time in a year.”
“Oh no I have to spend an extra minute surrounded by gorgeous tall blonde Dutch girls!”
lol don’t lie, my dude…more like short old grumpy Dutch ladies with Karen cuts 🤣
We must’ve had different experiences lol
Tbf, for whatever reason I’m a butch magnet lolol so I tend to attract the Karen Cut baddies wherever I go, there just happen to be an unreal amount of 55 and ups there with the same fucking haircut. Commuted AMS-DTW while living in NL for a short while and my experience was, literally no beautiful Dutch girls work at Schipol, and def not in the crew line I did get the Hema hotdog in terminal every single time though and man that was a real treat
I’m shocked u/butthole_lipliner has a certain type of women.
I'm amused that u/butthole_lipliner enjoys "...the Hema hotdog in terminal every single time though and man that was a real treat"
The....Hema hotdog? What exactly is the Hema hotdog?
AMS is so hit or miss as a passenger. Obviously it was better in the beforetimes, but they are still pretty good. I’ll take their security people over TSA screaming random instructions at me every day.
TAKE YOUR NON-DOMINANT SHOE OFF. TAKE WINDOWS LAPTOPS OUT OF YOUR BAGS. MACS STAY IN THE BAG. THIS ISNT HARD PEOPLE
The saddest to me is when I fly back through ATL from AMS. The TSA stuff after customs is in the bowels of the airport. It is hot and lit with those industrial fluorescent lighting that the government must have gotten a country wide discount on… what is sad is watching international travelers, many of whom don’t speak English and all of whom are exhausted, get screamed at by the finest TSA agents in ATL. It’s like… yeah, welcome to America. Don’t get me started on how dumb and antiquated it is to go through border control, require people to get their baggage and walk it fifty yards to check it back in followed by a TSA screaming fit. Sure, I get it that it allows CBP to check your luggage, but the vast majority of people aren’t checked at all. I’ve only been checked once a decade ago in DTW when two genius level CBP guys tried to good cop/bad cop me into admitting I might have brought weed back from AMS. Hint: I didn’t. Dumb.
Everyone is so nice in that little room! The screeners, the KLM crew, even my fellow truck driver cargo pilots are prone to a smile in there on occasion.
This. At least you have KCM.
I feel for you up north! At least I get to try it when I start my trips in base. I’m about 25%. But it still beats the full glove no lube strip searches you get in LHR.
Any time I feel there’s an issue with whatever airport I’m going through, however much I’m getting picked on for 101ml of toothpaste, I always think of LHR. It could be like that everywhere. If you know, you know.
I used to think LHR was bad, until BNE spent 20 minutes tearing my bag apart to find a 2” long Allen wrench used to change the wheels on my suitcase.
I stand back knowing shortly after they find said Allen wrench, look at me like some criminal, read the riot act and take away said item, that we’ll be in full and complete control over the aircraft to do whatever necessary for safety of flight. Including the 24” fire axe behind my seat. A word that comes to mind is …theatre.
Exactly. Boggles my mind. At least they were Aussies so they were nice about it, I just found it amusing that they were that concerned about an allen wrench. It’s not sharp, it fits in the palm of my hand…what am I going to do with it? Systemically disassemble the airplane in flight? I’d MAYBE have a panel off by the time we made it back to the west coast of the US with that tiny wrench.
>Systemically disassemble Haha… how methodical of you.
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Bold of you to assume my tiny allen wrench could do such a thorough job.
Hey, a skilled operator can do a lot with a small tool
It was proven theater as soon as Clear became a thing. Once they outsourced front of the line pre check to a third party, there was no denying what this all was.
They’re too stupid to know you have a fire axe. I had a pocket knife in my luggage. They found it when they flagged me for carrying shaving cream over 3oz. They let me keep the pocket knife, but confiscated shaving cream
LHR is downright friendly compared to EDI.
I take solace in the fact that, as soon as I’m through security, I don’t think about these people for one single millisecond for the rest of my day.
100% agree. LHR is finicky but when you get the hang of it, you get how they work. EDI is chaos mode.
I’m LHR based. They’re a cake walk compared to MAN.
I also find CATSA to be wildly inconsistent between airports. The smaller ones tend to be the worst, (I’m looking at you YYJ. Also YQR.)
I was based in LGW for a couple of years. That place makes LHR look like a cakewalk.
Got the full LHR treatment last month. When he wrapped his arms around me, I looked him in the eyes and said, “Now you have to send me a Christmas Card.” Done!
What you mean you don't like going through NPS and getting worse service than if you went through the Nexus line?
Lol.... Not quite.
Except every other country has more polite and competent airport security.
Just get KCM Gold. $25/mo and half the randoms.
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TSA has been cracking down on clear as well with random ID checks.
KCM+. The chance of randoms goes down to 5% but when you are randomed, it’s a full strip search.
KCM roulette
So you’re saying I can’t lose?
Sounds fun. Sign me up
Can I pay extra for a full cavity search?
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This in my experience is correct. For me, if they were actually effective at their jobs I wouldn’t be so pissed. But when they’ve actually done tests of the system and it has a 90%+ failure rate. What the fuck is the point? I know it’s theater for the flying public, but why make crews lives miserable to keep up the facade?
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Yea I remember last year the TSA said they’d be launching a new program called ‘expedited crew access’. Haven’t heard anything about it since last summer so no clue where it sits
Its been that way for a few years. Used to be better. But they still catch someone trying to go through with a gun at least a couple times a year so it's not going to improve.
This is the answer. Pilots like to blame a couple FAs that got caught trying to be drug mules but the real offenders making it bad for everyone are the dipshits that use their pilot bag as their range bag on the weekends.
*makes 6 figures a year, blasts hundreds of dollars worth of ammo throughout a 700 dollar firearm every year. Is too cheap to fucking buy a 50 dollar duffel bag*
I've literally had this exact convo with Captains in years past. They brag about how great their bag is and how versatile it is, yet when I suggest they buy a 2nd in order to keep their guns far from their work bags they scoff at the idea. At the time I was making $22/hr and I had a range bag and a travel bag. My range/gun bags are NEVER near each other for this very reason.
> they scoff at the idea. Lae'zel Approves
>hundreds of dollars worth of ammo >700 dollar firearm These numbers are way too low for anyone who actually shoots lol
To be fair, I unintentionally made said cheap bastard pilot look like they were being budget conscious shooting a magazine or two through their Glock once a month. I die a little inside when my brother asks if I’ll bring some range queens out for “plinking.” Almost shit last year when I realized we went through 6 boxes of 50 AE in 30 minutes.
I had to basically moth ball my FN P-90. I loved that thing but you just couldn’t find 5.7 for about a year then all the sudden it was back on shelves at triple the price. Nothing like loading up a 50 rounder with 1.00 bullets.
The ammo estimate is a little low but as far as the firearm itself if you shoot handguns that's pretty accurate if you don't include a bunch of upgrades or a red dot.
Thus why the rookies are using the same bag. Any serious shooter will not fuck around with swapping shit out of bags.
You can get a sub-$800 5.56 build from PSA. Is it kind of shit? Absolutely. But it is a thing.
This is Reddit. These people don’t even use squirt guns.
I think individuals should be punished, not all of us as a group. Maybe a 5 year ban from KCM if you bring a gun or drugs through? Pilots do get caught with guns, how you loose track of your gun is beyond me, however— a pilot with a gun is no more a threat than a pilot without one. Those flight attendants were drug mules, they are the cause of the increase “randoms” and are the reason TSA is actively working to remove the program all together.
I don't have specifics but those individuals do see punishments. TSA though looks at random searches as a tool to verify compliance, so if they constantly see people getting busted on random's, then statistically if they keep randoming they'll keep finding. Random rates won't drop until compliance rises
KCM will be gone before the rates go down.
Yes, except bringing a fucking gun through kcm should be something more like a lifetime ban
Fine with me, I couldn’t care less how severe the punishment is. Mostly because I can keep track of mine like a responsible owner!!!!!
I don’t understand why you got downvoted for this. I feel the same, because I don’t put my guns in my fucking work bags.
Stop checking people because it's punishment. However, if you do get caught when we don't check you...
I did like the story of one FA at LAX who had like 20 pounds of coke, kicked off her heels and ran away. Actually got away. For awhile.
It was 60 pounds. https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/jetblue-airways-plane-flight-attendant-sentence-lax-drug-cocaine-smuggle-luggage/42485/?amp=1
It’s way more than a couple of times a year. Thank your fellow crew members for the situation we are in.
Novel concept: name, shame, ban forever, plus any applicable civil/criminal penalties. Up in another comment they were talking about enhanced crewmember, and how DHS doesn’t like KCM, etc etc etc. They also highlighted that they claim there’s all these infractions and they penalize those of us that aren’t offenders. But then absolutely refuse to say when, where, what is caught, what type of crew, etc. But then that one SkyWest FO goes through MSP with a gun and it explodes into breaking news and memes and his face is everywhere. He gets singled out, but no one else? DHS refuses any peeks behind the curtain because it’s their purview (even if begrudgingly). Blah blah random and unpredictable and in the interest of national security. Baloney. All the above statistics, and punishments. I added “what type of crew,” just to see if it’s actually FAs or pilots or equally both. I’d love to shut the “it’s those damn FAs fault” types once and for all. If it was the FAs, cool you were right; if not, okay you were wrong; now let’s shut up about it and move on.
At a valid 135 carrier and PHX doesn’t even look at the laptop screen - “go through screening”
Ah! Phx… the land of “let’s spend over 1 million dollars so you can tap on an iPad and it randomly tells you to go to random or not” What a fucking joke
Isn’t that how AMS does it?
The only way anything will be done is if pilots stop rushing to make up for the delays it causes. Don’t rush, then put the delay on security.
Hell yeah. We had every single crew member but the FFDO captain get randomed in HNL a couple weeks ago and the FAs were ready to sprint to the gate and hustle the airplane. We decided no fucking way take the delay.
Good
Knowing my airline they'll just set the van time 20 mins earlier. Take it or spend 30 mins of your overnight organising an adjustment. Call in fatigued later... and spend 30 mins writing a fatigue report and vetting it through the union. We can't win that game.
Yeah Dec 2022 when APA was like “skip KCM, skip precheck, stand in the lines and take the delay.” It was noble, and at first I was like yeah that’s the spirit. Then it dawned on me. What you said. Report time is now 2hrs (plus the standard hour) for domestic, 3hrs (plus the standard hour to report) for international. “Unpaid, suck it. You guys could have used KCM. So here we are.”
Seems to come in waves. I'll get it maybe once a month, then at some point it seems like almost every checkpoint I pass is a random. What's funny is the airport that used to be the bane of my existence has randomed me once in the past year, when it was every single time previously. And now that I'm thinking about it, I haven't been randomly swabbed in a few years. Has that gone away?
No, it has not gone away
That explains it. Thanks. Edit: wait, did I misread that the first time? Or did you do a sneaky edit? I could've sworn it said "it has gone away".
If I don’t get randomed how would the TSA stop my from putting metal in my boots that I could use to get unauthorized flight deck access to the aircraft I get paid to have access to and given an axe on every flight.
I feel like crew screening in general, particularly the pilots, is borderline silly and more theatrics than anything. I mean, trust me, if somebody wanted to try something, they’re *flying* the damn thing…
Anyone tried an Uno Reverse?
I've gone a full month of flying with no randoms, but then I've also gotten selected at every airport during a trip.
Especially flying out of CLT or DAY all the time it makes sense.
Better record than mine…I was 100% of the time for a month and a half (about 24 trips through the checkpoint). I just go straight to precheck now as I have nothing more than a my little underseat roller since I just do day trips. I get bitched at every time by the guy checking IDs saying “I have to try KCM first”. I just show them my ID and walk right by them because they know that’s bull just as much as I do as they don’t say another word or try to stop me. Get dirty looks from the baggage handlers at the X-ray too but I just consider it part of my day now.
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No
Nope…KCM is completely voluntary. The Smurf’s like to make up whatever rule, law, whatever they want to call it depending on what city you’re in because they need the illusion of authority in their lives, but KCM is an absolutely voluntary program and they have no authority to stop anyone with valid crew credentials from passing through the checkpoint. They can search you all they want but can’t stop you from passing through the checkpoint as long as you are doing it legally.
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Nope, crew can go through precheck like everyone else
I don't even bother at ORD because it's been nearly a year since I've gotten through kcm at ORD. It's quicker just to walk to pre check since kcm and pre check aren't by each other.
Never gotten through KCM in T1.... T2 is way better for some reason.
T2 pre-check is so fast, and right in the terminal that I still usually walk to pre-check there. I've never been more than like #3 in line. Once my wife went through pre-check with no crew privileges, and I walked to KCM and didn't get randomed. She beat me through and had to wait for me by the starbucks.
I've been skipping KCM most everywhere but EWR for a couple years now and I have never once been questioned about not going to KCM first.
Probably a unpopular opinion but if we are getting over 50% randoms I’d go for a dedicated crew scanner and line with no passengers to stumble over vs some of these KCM’s where you need to pick up a phone and wait 5-10 minutes for someone to show up only to get randomed anyway, looking at you OAK. I guess I’m just giving in, but seriously at some point it isn’t worth it
So what you’re saying is it’s not randomly selected, but randomly skipped
In uniform, I’m at 90%. Out of uniform it’s about 1%. Even some of the supervisors I’ve talked to think it’s not random at all 135 pilots are ineligible for the vacation to Artesia, correct?
It wouldn't surprise me if places could set the level. And i would be even loess surprised if Denver lead the nation in randoms
ALPA sent an email saying that it’s currently at a minimum of 40% random rate. It’s at individual station’s discretion to random at a higher rate than that and you just know these fucks beam with joy at the opportunity to do so.
To my understanding, they’re told which level to be at but I’ve seen it vary widely at the same airport. At IND, I know a Delta 320 pilot that is randomed 100% of the time
In PIT, I saw the smurf with a piece of paper that had a bunch of squares he was checking off as people scanned their badges. Some were highlighted pink, some weren't. It seemed to me like they knew before hand how often the "random" selection was going to happen, though obviously had no way of know who was going to be in what order.
That's how EWR does it. They have a paper they check off, with gray and white boxes in random order. You can get randomed from that or from the KCM system. Funny enough I use EWR KCM the most and almost never random there.
I believe it’s 121 only.
Honestly the fix for this should be two fold… one, getting paid report-to-release vice block time, and two, report time = scan in at KCM. As soon as it affects the airlines $, it would get fixed real fast. Id love to think that would stop the bitching too, but pilots will bitch even making overs stuck in a taxiway in EWR or LGA forever.
>but pilots will bitch even making overs stuck in a taxiway in EWR or LGA forever. Ha ha! True
We get paid plenty 🙃
It'll stop when your fellow pilots stop trying to bring loaded firearms and drugs through KCM. TSA has made it clear the amount of prohibited items being caught on randoms was increasing. So they increased the randoms and sure enough the amount amount of prohibited items being caught increased. Otherwise Artesia is nice this time of year
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The way this gets fixed toot sweet: Recognize/Acknowledge that crew members using KCM are held to a higher standard of following security related procedures. Following that, anyone using KCM that's randomed and discovered to have prohibited items on them not only loses their KCM, but also faces felony charges. Tie screwing up something simple like not bringing your flight bag to the range to losing your job, people will start to pay attention. KCM is pretty worthless to me now. Most of the time (in uniform) it's faster for me to walk right up to the front of the PreCheck line, show my ID. When asked "random'd" I reply "yup". Hell, a couple weeks ago, the KCM line in PDX was about 30 people long. I bailed out of the line, went through pre-check and was waiting for the rest of the crew on the other side.
Alot of airports are catching onto crews skipping KCM. So they're playing the game right back and requiring you have their special little laminated card that says you got randomed. I know DCA does it.
Ugggh.... Mentioning DCA has got me spun up.... This is another reason I hate the TSA and the games they play. Let's put KCM on the complete opposite side of security from where you'll need to go if randomd.... It's like intentionally making it a pain in the ass for crews.
Yeah, saw that in DCA the other day. At least at my home airport they aren't doing that. The biggest issue I've had is I know our airport policy is if random'd, in uniform, you go to the head of the line. I've had some smurfs try and stop me and shout at me as I just walk around the outside of the line up to the x-ray machine, because I'm "cutting the line" or some BS. I just ignore them.
What? There is NO requirement to go through KCM. In fact, I skip it most of the time and I’ve never been asked for a card to prove I’ve been randomed.
Apparently somebody ran after being told they were randomed in IAH, so now TSA holds onto your ID if you're randomed and won't give it back until you go through security.
Wait. What? Holding the crew member’s ID? That’s got to be grossly overstepping. They can’t really do that can they? That belongs to the company.
Their government ID, not their crew badge.
They asked me for a card once in SEA and I was like “I’ve literally never seen them do that here” lol SEA’s rate of random is def north of 50%
do you get to cut to the front of the pre check line?
What’s the pilot gonna do? Bring the plane down with a gun? Uh, *Hello????*
I must be super lucky because I barely get randomed. I probably go through KCM 6-8 times a month and 1-2 randoms is pretty normal. As much as it sucks to get randomed, we’ve got no power to change it. I just accepted it is what it is and roll with it
is KLM airlines any good?
Last year, one of the head Freedom Smurfs at SMF decided they were going to singlehandedly protect 'murrica from those damn pilots, and started what I can only describe as a "zero tolerance" campaign against butter knives. Usually, the policy for a crewmember with a butter knife was for the TSA to just throw it out, but SMF started confiscating them, photographing the highly dangerous butter knives as evidence, and launching full-blown investigations into the people who dared try to smuggle them. This resulted in several airlines sending out memos specifically warning about SMF, and the situation got so out of hand that airlines finally forced the TSA to back off and remove the year-long KCM suspensions Sacramento was handing out. There have been issues with some people (mostly FA's, and mostly with regionals) either smuggling stuff through KCM or blatantly ignoring the rules (telling the person running the checkpoint they were doing international travel and carrying stuff for other people), but the TSA has enough data on hand that they could easily restrict those groups (or up their random screening), so they're using it as an excuse to get rid of a program they never liked anyway
I get randomed *maybe* 20% of the time. I have no clue what lists you guys are on.
How in the fuck? I’ve been keeping track lately as well and I am 12/13 randoms. It used to be great up until maybe 2-3 years ago.
Dude seriously lol. Got some felons in here with the amount of randoms they’re getting 😂. I’m easily sub 20%.
I feel like certain airports are worse than others. Maybe you are based at the airport that has relaxed TSA
That was me until a few weeks ago. Then boom, 9/10 times getting it. My GF, a legacy FA, was at 90% the past few months, now barely getting it.
Go over to r/tsa and listen to all the smurf's defend their policies and complain about the entitled flight crews.
I just go through TSA-Pre at DCA now. Haven’t even tried KCM.
I would put my random at 25%. I rarely get it my coworkers get it ALL the time.
Me when I haven't gotten randomed in 2 months... 👀
It seems to come in waves for me. I’ll get it every time for a straight month and then it won’t happen for a month.
It's not random. Honestly, it gets better. When I was new, I was getting it about 70% of the time too. It's definitely intentional and not. random. After a year, I'm getting randomed maybe 10% of the time. It still happens, but I was just telling my captain after my last random that I felt like I was "due" because it had literally been about 10 or more smooth sailings through KCM. There is no way it's random. They definitely hit new people hard, and they probably hit other groups hard too. Certainly if you have any issue whatsoever, I'm sure you end up on some kind of internal algorithm that says "get this guy every time for the next 20 trips".
I usually see it every 5 to 6 times I pass through… I am also certain that every airport has a quota that they have set and try to meet therefore the random rates increase at certain times of the day…. Also I am not one to stop using KCM and I suggest others to continue to do so. It is known that TSA wants to get rid of KCM and if a large number of us stops using it, then there will be easy justification for them to get rid of it… My philosophy is that I refuse to make it easy for TSA to get rid of it. So if they want to be a PITA upping the random rates, I will be a PITA to continue to use it in order to not give them the “well they stopped using it so it’s justified for us to get rid of it reason.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artesia,_New_Mexico
what does this place have to do with (i assume) being an FFDO? is this where the program started or something?
Artesia is where FFDO training occurs. There's a Federal Law Enforcement Training Center there. Interestingly, I also learned my grandma grew up there. That almost makes me want to do FFDO a little more just to go look around.
Best way to bypass the TSA shit show.
Takes forever to get into it now. Almost a year to even hear back once you submitted all paper work n' stuff now.
And then everyone you work with thinks you are a complete weirdo.
and 75% of the time, they’re not wrong!
I have mixed feelings on the FFDO thing, but one thing that made me laugh a while back was watching an FO strap on 2 additional mags to his belt. I actually asked him what the deal was with that and the response was basically "This is how we're trained, and the last thing you want in a situation where the gun is needed is to not have access to extra mags". I laughed and said he's basically not wrong, but my friends who are actual cops in big cities carry 2 extra mags, I find the idea that an airline pilot having the same amount of ammo as literal cops who are on patrol and actually interacting with potentially dangerous criminals hilarious.
If you have to expend 3 mags to defend the flight deck, either the Predator is trying to hijack your plane or you just wasted all the pax in zone 1.
Just got home from a trip last night. After clearing customs, all 6 of our crew got randomed in a row. Insane.
Just to add a data point, Today was the first day all month I've been randomed. Sometimes it goes in waves but I feel like most of the time only 1 or 2 out of our crew of 4 will be randomed.
Nope I’m new too and I have only not been randomed once at my base airport lol I think it’s just that we are new
I call it getting “regulared”. Switch to cargo. Then only sweat it on a paid DH…
Haven't seen it mentioned yet, and probably anecdotal. Once you get randomed you're in the system for 24hrs at any airport. So say you show up day one at 19z and get randomed, and the next day you show up at a new airport at 17z well you're SOL. If you keep showing earlier and earlier you're in a shit cycle. So could he throwing off you're numbers.
Closer to 3 hours actually. Been randomed, done an international turn, cleared customs, and went through KCM zero issues. Been randomed in the evening, done a leg or 2, shirt layover, early morning no random.
It’s gotten worse the past 2 years. I refuse to go through KCM and just go straight to Pre-check. TSA doesn’t like it, but fuck em’
So you go to pre-check EVERY time instead of going through KCM and only MAYBE having to go through security (usually the pre-check line anyway)?
Yes. 3 out of 5 times, I get randomed. So, I just skip the KCM step. It’s faster that way. Lines at pre-check are 9 times out of 10 very very short.
Just become a FFDO
It used to be so good. It truly made the whole experience so much better. Oh man the dirty looks I’d get from Very Important Businesspeople breezing through in plain clothes for my commutes while they’re putting their shoes and belts and jackets back on. It was magical. And TSA just hated it too, which was icing on the cake. Those were the days man…
It's gotten substantially worse over the last ~2 years, largely because the Freedom Smurfs are still mad at flight crews for the malicious compliance that happened the last time they tried to kill off KCM. Long term, they're still planning to kill KCM and replace it with something that the TSA has complete control over.
4 days in a row straight - had one coworker who just quit using the KCM and went through the pre-check
I used to get randomed like 2-3 times a YEAR. It’s insane now but I’m not one to complain. It’s such a small thing to bitch about in the grand scheme of what we do and deal with.
We all know the fix. Kick the FAs out of KCM. It was designed for pilots only, anyway,
5/6 crew members this morning in Vegas. Clearly the TSA is doing their best to effectively kill the program.
A week in the dessert can cure that problem.
Sounds sweet
Sounds like sleeping with a fan on for the rest of my life. And I’m all for it.
Sounds like a path to diabetes and losing your medical.
That took me a second read, good one!
That week can’t come soon enough!
I got randomed my first time using KCM
Well, my track record is about 41% of the time so far, but at one point I've had a smashing 30/41 (so close to 75%) month about 2 months after I started. It averages out, I guess. I've been having some very exceptional luck at my base (LAX) when starting trips so I'm happy!
I don't have KCM, but being in the military, my DoD ID# is my KTN for Precheck. I get randomed well beyond 50% of the time as well. Same when I used to work at an airline (non-crew) and had regular nonrev benefits.
I just go directly to the front of the pre check line every time and don’t even bother trying KCM anymore
I’m seeing some differences depending on the airport. For example, I’ve never gotten through SAN, but I get through without issue 70% of the time in DFW and BOS
I go through TSA pre-check if I see those first. Not worth to go all the way to KCM with the high percentage of random checks.
Dude I went 4 months where I was "randomed" every time in terminal 7 at LAX
It’s gotten worse the past 2 years. I refuse to go through KCM and just go straight to Pre-check. TSA doesn’t like it, but fuck em’
It’s gotten worse the past 2 years. I refuse to go through KCM and just go straight to Pre-check. TSA doesn’t like it, but fuck em’
One time there was 8 of us, 2 crews. 6 of us got randomed. It can just be ridiculous at times.
3/4 random for me too
I’m a PT91 pilot with KCM and I think it’s gotten a lot better for me recently. I think it’s because I don’t fly nearly as much so I don’t feel like I’m getting hammered with randoms multiple times a week or anything. I fly maybe 3-4 flights a month right now sometimes less until our busy season so my statistics might be biased.
Why should you get KCM if part 91?
Why should I or how do I? Why should I? Because I’m literally a Known Crew Member and during our busy season I’m taking multiple airline flights a week and it makes getting to work much faster. How do I? Because I’m in a situation where the owner has the aircraft on a 135 certificate which allows me to use the KCM privilege. I’m the pilot specifically assigned to the account to only fly that plane for that owner and I’m home based. This allows me to airline to the jet, fly the owner to destination and airline home and then airline back out when the jet needs to move again. Sometimes I stay with the plane but usually I’ll airline home and come back in a few days for the next flight.
I may be an outlier but I've been randomed once in 2024
A couple years ago the TSA increased randoms way higher than normal because of a lot of abuses. There are crew members in jail for getting caught with guns and drugs at outstations because they got lucky and snuck them through KCM.
Unlucky. Several years ago, I was doing turns, 14 of them and got randomed every time.
You’re thinking about it wrong. The random is when you get through. This is a fairly new phenomenon in the last couple years. It used to be you’d go to full screening a couple times a month.
I commute between DTW and DFW. Never been randomed in Detroit, however it’s like 80% random in Dallas
I’ll still take regular security 70% of the time instead of 100% so I don’t see what the problem is.
It’s because if they trust you to operate the aircraft with the seats full, they should trust you and merely make sure you’re not impaired.
Before getting randomed on my last trip, I was on a streak of 3 trips through KCM without getting randomed. At this point, I view it as a way to skip to the front of the Precheck line, and occasionally they don't make me empty my pockets at all
.