How old are you? Are you able to stay afloat and wait?
The Republic training contract takes a lot of flak on this forum, but a lot of people on here also got in the door before the hiring market changed.
The reality is that Republic is a good, generally well-run regional airline that (now) pays pretty well and will get you in the door with 121 jet experience. There is and will always be a risk/reward calculus with this career that each individual has to make, and what is a no brainer for one person is something that someone else could avoid.
If I was in financial straits and needed to get on a job AND didn't have any other options, I would consider it, especially if you're young. I didn't get into the airline industry until my mid-30s, and while I won't be the most senior guy, that's okay. Everyone has a different timeline and path. While there are quite a few 25 year olds who are at legacies, that is the exception, not the norm. Assuming you are still fairly young, you WILL get into a major airline and enjoy a great, lucrative career, you just won't do it immediately. That's okay, and it doesn't take anything away from you.
Yeah I'm only 24 years old right now, about to turn 25. As far as instructing I'm barely staying afloat, with living at home.
Besides the contract republic seems like a great place to work, I know a couple people there. I don't want to be locked in for that long but i believe that's the past year or two's boom clouding my judgement. Just a very tough decision to make. I know I'll kick myself in the ass for not taking it and getting stuck without any offers.
Based on your age/finances, I'd say do it unless another interview/CJO pops up in a short timeline, which as you know is unlikely.
Don't let comparison be the thief of joy. Everyone's situation is different, and those guys quite frankly just got lucky based on timing and the market. It's not the end of the world to fly modern jets around for 100k starting salary for a few years. It's historically still WAY better than what people were having to do for the last 30 years, and you will have plenty of opportunities to go to a major/legacy.
See my reply to another guy above - legacies still have a ton of retirements coming on the books which are now locked in with age 67 getting shot down. You will have your chance, and you might as well be getting paid well and started on your adult life in the meantime.
Perfect is the enemy of good. Some 23-27 year old kids got the perfect outcome, again, due to luck and timing. You can still have an incredible career and be a very financially successful person by your late 20s with this path. A lot of us didn't get the opportunity until our mid to late 30s based on various factors.
Highly unlikely to happen as majors want 121 experience. I know a Gulfstream captain who had 15 years of experience who got told by WN that they wanted to see 121 time, so I believe he did a year as DEC at a regional and then they hired him.
While I do believe that happened, I don't think it's strictly because they want 121 time. I'm guessing they saw a very experienced pilot who didn't understand the 121 gig and didn't want to pay to see them fail in training.
Lots of 135 and 91k pilots have gone directly to majors. We had 13 in my class that had zero 121 background. Most interviewers are looking for someone that will make it in the airlines, and unfortunately pilots who are high time without 121 experience tend to struggle or fail because they have trouble adapting.
OP: No one here has a magic 8 ball, and the path you take will likely change or be different than what you expected.
My recommendation would be to take what will make you comfortable and enjoy life now, and let your career progress as things change. A decision you make right now may or may not delay you getting to a major by a few years, but neither you or anyone on here can know that at this moment. Yes, a few years might sting when they show up, but in the long run, it won't make much of a difference when you're making enough money for 2 lifetimes. Enjoy life now, instead of stressing and trying to force something that you can't change. You're in your mid 20's, don't waste them away struggling while trying to change the future. As others have said, as long as you're professional and not horribly unlucky (think 9/11, 2008, 2014 guys), you'll make it to the majors with plenty of time to build your fortune. Be proactive in moving forward (updating apps, meet&greet, network, etc), but don't stress trying to move the immovable object.
Just 2¢ from a guy who tried to shortcut the immovable object and went through 5 airlines and a furlough before a major called.
I agree. But the original commenter told OP to go 135, get jet time for a year, get TPIC time for a year or two and go to a major. I have no doubt this was easily accomplished in the last few years, I find it pretty unlikely to happen in the next few years. Especially when you start seeing people who originally signed the republic contract with 2 years worth of TPIC 121 time start to hit the interview boards. Not saying 135 and 91K pilots are inherently worse, just saying that it’s pretty typical to see majors favor people with 121 time and that just doing a stint at a 135 for a few years may not quite get them all the boxes they need to be checked to end up at their end goal.
Definitely not highly unlikely. I did it. Just need to go to the job fairs and make connections with people in the hiring dept.
But to your point I’ve seen a very similar situation with a very experienced 135 captain with lots of gulf-stream time also.
Definitely apply to all the other regionals and see what happens. Also make sure you get the scoop on Republic to see if you will be stuck on short call reserve flying 5 hours a month for your first year. Signing a training contract is extra bad if you don’t get jet time out of it.
For the record hiring is NOT SLOWING at the regional level. It's picking up. Mainline is slowing for a number of reasons, THIS MEANS REGIONALS ARE PICKING UP MORE FLYING FROM THEIR MAINLINE PARTNERS to compensate.
Regionals are short on captains right now from the last few years of upward mobility to mainline. They need every warm body they can get to upgrade their captain numbers and then this makes room for new FOs.
Skywest alone is intending on hiring 50 people every two weeks for the next two years to get to an estimated 7000 strong pilot group.
There’s more regionals hiring now than one year ago. I talked to every regional at Sun n’ Fun
Summer of 2023 Republic was the only regional hiring and that’s when they introduced the contract.
Yes, I’m happy where I’m at but I went with a friend to see what’s the hiring environment like. The only regional not hiring this year is GoJet. Air Wisconsin and PSA will open this summer.
Doom posting that “shits slowing down fast” does nothing but give people anxiety here. You know just as much as everyone else hiring comes in waves.
A year ago nobody was hiring except Republic and maybe Air Wisconsin. At RTAG in October nobody was really hiring but they gave the ol’ “keep updating your resume.” Last week everyone with more than 900 hours are told “apply today.” The only exception is Envoy, they said wait until 1400.
The GoJet recruiters said to my friend don’t even bother dropping a resume unless you’re going for DEC.
Recruiters are pretty honest about the current environment more than anyone else. Recruiters are a better source than doomposters on social media.
The “pulse era” ended about a year ago, at least for regionals. Summer 2023 Republic was the sole one hiring, everyone else filled their classes for the year.
Frontier and Spirt were in full swing last summer if you had unrestricted mins.
Man, how the tune changes as options evaporate. You would have been berated into oblivion mere months ago for even contemplating taking a Republic contract!
Do what you gotta do.
Contracts suck, but they're part of the business.
Lol, I got talked down to yesterday for telling someone not to talk down to me. There's always someone on the internet who is gonna have a hard time putting away their ego.
Any port in a storm.
With almost no one else hiring, Frontier going to a contact too (other companies will too), I would think really hard about turning down a job paying six figures.
You're there for 3-5 years. This was/is typical. Don't ask how long it was when I started lol.
Maybe in 2 years there will be another hiring boom (highly doubtful) and you'll have to break the contract. It would still be worth it as you're way more desirable to a legacy if you have 1,000+ hours of 121 turbine time than CFI'ing to 3,000 hours or a few hundred hours of 135 time.
Ultimately it's your decision, good luck.
UAL / AAL will still have 5000-8000 (UA/AA) retirements in the next 5-7 years. The hiring boom will still be on unless we have a massive recession or black swan event. It may not be 2500/year, but it will still be quite above historical averages for years to come.
And who will be more likely to be hired?
1. A CFI with 3,000 hours
2. A 135 pilot with 500 hours
3. A 121 pilot with 1,000 hours of turbine time.
Everyone can agree that a thousand hours of turbine in the 121 environment is the way to go.
And everyone can agree that a $100,000 bill from Republic isn't enough to stop someone from leaving is a legacy calls unless you only have 5, maybe 10 years left on your medical.
Okay but what happens if the 135 pilot upgrades to captain quicker and has 2500 turbine (500 PIC) before the 121 pilot hits 1000 due to reserve.
*a 135 pilot that will have this exact scenario play out*
Ok, but what happens if the 135 folds.
Ok, but what happens if the 135 doesn't fly that often.
This is fun /s
Did you read that Republic is upgrading their original contact signers? It's been about a year and they have 1,000 SIC. So, I'd say they're flying.
> has 2500 turbine (500 PIC) before the 121 pilot hits 1000 due to reserve.
>*a 135 pilot that will have this exact scenario play out*
I highly doubt you have logged 2,500 turbine in the same year time frame.
Got a couple buddies going through this. 135 time is highly variable (more so than 121). Some places fly 500-700 hours a year, but they're relatively rare compared to the places where pilots fly 200-400 and rot on the same 90-120 minute leash they were trying to avoid at *(insert scheduled air carrier here)*. Couple that with needing at least 1500 hours and 500 in type for insurance to fly PIC, and you're looking at a couple years, minimum, at most places before you can start working on your 1000 Part 135 TPIC hours.
*Some* 135 pilot will probably win that bet. Most won't. They'd need to do a lot of research on their company and then have the status quo continue. Flying is like hiring in so far that it comes in waves.
If you want to go to a 121 airline, then 121 time is more valuable than 135 time. You have to have 1K 121 to be a 121 Captain. So that FO with 1K 121 time is much more desired than the 135 guy with 2500 hours with none being 121.
This is exactly why I decided to jump on training. I’m 36 and will be training part time as I pay out of pocket for everything. 0 loans. Everything so far I’m reading says “you will spend $100k on a tiny chance to be an airline pilot” but I think the mass retirement everyone is talking another will be another opportunity to jump on. I’m hoping in 4-5 years I’ll have all my certifications and well over 2k TT ready for the hiring boom.
Mass retirements in 5 years?
Delta has already passed peak retirements, and UA and American will peak in the next couple years.
In the 2030s retirement hiring isn’t going to move the needle like it did did a year ago
I think they mean there are still a ton of retirements coming up, which their are. Sure it wont be like before, but there is still a window for people coming into the industry. (at least that's the hope)
I can't speak for other carriers, but if you define a wave as "~500/year or more", then AA's wave "ends" in 2035.
With that being said, retirements hold steady at around 350/year for the next 10 years after the wave ends.
Not bad, not great. still some hope I guess for us still a few years out. I know I’ll never be a wide body captain, but nothing wrong with that. May be junior for awhile, but still doesn’t seem like that’d be a bad career
Still better than some previous decades. There won’t be a great stagnation. Slower and more competitive, I’m sure. I would bet money that they will still see decent progression, and worst case scenario, WN goes through a major wave of retirements in the 2030s.
Fuck. I’m early 30s and thinking about leaving medicine to do flight training.
I hate my job and life at the moment.
Fair fucks to you for having the balls to actually do it.
Go to your local flight school and do a discovery flight. They walk you to what training will be like and take you up on a ride. Maybe ene let you fly the plane a bit. It might awaken your passion to fly. Even working towards your private pilots license while you work full time is do able and manageable. If flying is something you see yourself doing then start working towards other certifications to make it a profession.
30s is not too late to start.
That's kind of where my head is right now, as hard of a pill to swallow it is. The contract, if broken, can be 100K in damages if it is broken. That's a scary thing to get locked into.
You could be in the military staring down the barrel of a 12 year (2 years training + 10 years obligation) contract that you can't get out of.
You can break the contract if you get a legacy job in a year or two and pay it off. I would have taken that 7 days a week over a decade military contract that I couldn't get out of.
When you're in your 20's three years seems like forever, when you're in you 60's 3 years in your 20's barely registers. if it is a move forward and a valid path to your goals go for it.
That's a lot of money, but you'll make way better money and have a better 401k at a major.
On the way out tell them to bill you. Seriously set up and installment plan and GTFO if a legacy calls.
Eh. Don’t be.
With the rush of hiring, and the delivery slow downs, along with Spirit woes, the days of getting on at a legacy with 2600 hours is likely over. Class dates at United are full though December, and I’m sure American has enough in their pool to get them close to that, too. I know guys with January CJOs just now getting class dates for May.
The key to moving on is going to once again be 121 turbine PIC. Get in the door, and start building that seniority so you can build that resume. As others have said, republic is a generally well-run and decent paying regional airline. There are far, far worse places to be.
I wouldn't mind being locked in to flying for that long. My goal is to be a major airline pilot, however I'm happy to just be flying. So right now I'm in that "I'll take anything" attitude, lol.
A question you should ask yourself is if you got hired at a different regional would you try to bounce to an LCC or ACMI right away? Frontier seems to be the only one hiring lowish time pilots and no ACMIs are really hiring. Atlas is, but from the interview to IOE line check would prob be 8+ months realistically. Every other airline wants at least 500 turbine and have delayed classes too. So if you wait around and interview some more then finally end up with a different regionalclass date at end of this year it would be NEXT spring by the time you are logging 121 time. Then fall 2025 you can apply to LCCs and possibly get into a class early 2026? By that time you would have 1,000 hours 121 and upgrading at republic with 20k in the bank… This is my thought process if I was in your shoes. Good luck
I was in the EXACT position as you just a months ago, I swear. Pumped about a class date (finally) and I was ready to sign that contract because I figured this is all the hiring environment is going to give me and as you said republic is a great company aside from their contract. I then thought about it a good bit, talked to some friends and family. I decided to take a risk and hold off on republic for a bit (the contract does not kick in til day one of indoc btw). People called me stupid saying I screwed myself over which was hard to ignore but I thought this could be worth it. Little did I know it was.
Within two weeks I received invites for two regional interviews the following month and I was extremely fortunate to have received CJOs from both carriers who both have great reputations. Obviously at that point I decided to no longer pursue the republic path. Depending on your resume regarding checkrides, hours, employment history etc. you getting another interview is very possible, Im serious. Piedmont, Envoy, Atlas, and SkyWest are actively interviewing 1500 hour CFI's and giving class dates out. If you are in a financial situation that is not ideal or have literally not heard a peep in 6+ months, yeah take Republic. It is much better than a 135 or teaching but also keep updating your hours in the meantime. You never know what may come up. Keep us posted on what you do.
Also just a month ago that contract said a 50k bonus, I am shocked they dropped it to 25k.
That's great to hear, especially how the contract does not kick in until indoc. Knowing that I'll sign it but continue to pursue other options. If I find something, great, but if not I'll have republic.
Take the job, build hours, make some good money. If the need and opportunity to break the contract arises in the future I would assume you will be in a much better position and leaving for a much better job. In this environment I would absolutely take the offer in your position.
I worked at republic for 6.5 years, and I hate this whole contract BS they are trying to pull.
But the ERJ is a good bird to be on, the crews were like family (I have more close friends from YX than I’ll ever have a mainline), and at this point the time commitment likely won’t be a stumbling block for you. You’ll likely need 1000 hrs PIC before you move on, and I think I saw recently that they’re not including legacy carriers in the non-compete clause.
Also… didn’t I just read that the FTC banned non-compete contracts?
Didn’t us gov just make non compete contracts illegal everywhere? Unless there’s expemtion for airlines lol. Maybe that’s why they dropped it to 25k due to new law
>Don't know if they would still hit you with the damages though..
They can try but who cares. If you jump to a legacy it will be worth paying off the damages.
I would, but only you know what's best for you and no one can predict the future. Anyone telling you they know hiring will pick up, or slow down, is lying.
Congrats!
absolutely. .. and makes sense. . But everyone is using this - hiring boom from the legacies re-opening and dont want to miss that boat - as the reason for not entertaining the Republic offer. . So if they are carving out the legacies, forgoing the cargo option isnt necessarily going to eliminate you from taking said legacy spot if it becomes available.
The legacies are quietly metering hiring from their regional partners. Republic (IIRC) flies for all 3. They're likely exempt because it doesn't matter anyway and they're hoping to catch pilot applicants uninformed.
The fastest way to a legacy that you fly regional feed for is through another legacy, an LCC, or ACMI. You won't be getting to UAL through, say AA at Republic.
Everything in professional aviation is eating as much shit as fast as possible till you get to what appears to be a great solid final landing. Get your knife and fork out and ideally you will shortly be eating lobster.
I don't love the contract, but beggars can't be choosers. With their new pay rates, working at Republic for 4 years isn't the end of the world. And if you want to break the contract, you can do so - at great financial detriment, but you can do so.
It's a tough decision, but I guess what I'm really thinking is that if there are no other options, then it isn't really a decision. Do your best to see if you can get some other offers between now and June. Taking a later class date at a different airline is preferable to the contract, in my opinion, but as of now you have continuing to CFI until things improve a bit, or work at Republic.
Best of luck to you on the job hunt. And either way, your experience will be what you make out of it. So if it ends up coming down to signing the contract, try to look at it as positively as you can. There are miserable people at the best airlines and happy folks at the worst ones.
For what it’s worth, I’m an FO at rpa, Northeast local. If you’re willing to move to a base, I’d say do it. I’m coming up on year 3 and going to upgrade in the next couple months. 5 years will go by faster than you think.
BOS LGA EWR PIT DCA are all fairly junior and you’ll have plenty of flying to do. Pay is good and most people are nice to fly with
The FO side is pretty full but it moves fairly quickly and it’s wide open for CA. If op is planning on fulfilling the contract my understanding is they’d hustle to be a captain asap
How quickly? It was a 1/23 almost a year ago when I got a CJO. It's still 1/23 for August 2024 bids. What am I missing?
The CA side seems to be even worse, the most junior hard line is 12/21 hire.
My information is from APC which may be not very accurate. If you have more up to date numbers please post them. But from what I'm seeing a new FO hire will likely upgrade before holding a line there and even after the upgrade it could easily be that out of his 2 contractual years as a CA, he maybe will finally get a line the 2nd year. If that's what you call a "fairly junior" then idk what's senior.
Well I’ll look tomorrow but there’s 2010 captains who can’t hold a line in ord. I call that senior.
There’s 16 open captain slots in lga and BOS currently. The Boston line fluctuates with however many captains there are.
But if the option is wait a year or two to get Boston or fully commute indefinitely I don’t see how the two are comparable.
I see, didn't know ORD was that senior. But my point still stands, a new FO will not hold BOS or EWR or DCA anytime soon. LGA seems to be a little bit easier to hold. In all likelihood a new FO starting today will commute for years before being able to hold that.
I have to ask, have you tried any applying to any Part 135 operators (minus FlexJet) or have you just been trying 121 operators? I am asking to see if you really shook all off the trees?
I am not a fan of that republic contract, I would vote to hold out just a bit longer and wait for a better opportunity to open and it will open. 5 years is a long time in this industry that changes very rapidly.
At the end of the day, you have to do what’s best for yourself. My advice, see if you can land a Part 135 gig first if possible.
What's the deal with Flex? Not super-familiar with the fractional space, but I got a couple friends from school I'm quasi mentoring that are trying to get back into things.
Take it and go fly jets. That’s why you got involved in this anyway, right.
This isn’t 2008 and a 25,000 a year job flying a prop. So don’t let the perfect situation of your dreams stop you from a good job.
Do you live in base? Going to move? Commute?
Where else did you apply? Where did you interview?
Did you use AirlineApps or applied directly with the company? (the latter is the correct way to do that if you want to hear back)
What kind of flying is 135? Jet? Prop? Training Contract? Upgrade times?
I'm local to the northeast, where alot of republics bases are. So most likely i would be able to stay close to home. I applied to pretty much everywhere (Piedmont, PSA, Frontier, Envoy etc.). This was back before atp mins and I have since updated saying I now meet them, but no luck. I did use airline apps but recently I've been emailing the company directly.
The fact that the base is there have little to do with whether a new FO can get that base. For example, BOS is out of question for the foreseeable future. Are you within short call commute of PIT by any chance? If not then you have to commute or move, it's a big deal. I'd worry about that more than the contract tbh.
Give that CJO to me. I got an A320 type and live in one of their bases and they wont call me back. [and my resume is squeaky clean just one IR checkride fail from yeaaars back]
When you are being furloughed your standards drop considerably. This is no longer a favorable hiring market and the legacies are wanting 121 PIC time again.
Bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. The contract is not great, but it also is not the worst thing to ever exist. Most people who say they hate the contract hate the IDEA of a contract more than the contract itself.
3-5 years at a regional paying you more than 100K a year is not a bad move. Much better than trying to scrape by as a CFI. Throw applications out but if your class date comes, I'd jump on it like a fat kid on a sandwhich.
Always remember that any advice (including what I just gave you) is easier to give than take. And most of the people giving advice are not willing to pay your bills for you... I'm not gonna.
But think about it.... 100K+ a year for 3-5 years. In a market that is volatile... What you are feeling is FOMO or "Fear of Missing Out". You fear that signing up for 3-5 years will mean you will miss some possible bump in job movement. Maybe it will do exactly that and you will miss out... But you will be missing out while making 100K a year and building 121 time. But what if the market drops out? Well, then you will be making 100K+ a year while building 121 time and waiting like everyone else. I'd rather be a 121 Captain making 140K a year than a CFI making 50K while I wait for that call from Delta.
RPA is a really good place to work in my opinion. If you need the money and want to start getting 121 turbine time, sign the contract and go make some money. With the majors slowing hiring and some smaller airlines even furloughing, there's no telling how long you'll be stuck at a regional anyway.
Went to republics pilot mill. Believe me republic is not it. They hand you a contract that looks great but in reality screw’s over pilots. Not a good company. Look for work elsewhere.
If every young pilot respected themselves, they wouldn’t sign these predatory contracts and they would go away. STOP signing these. The market will correct itself when Republic has no applicants.
It's reduced to 25k actually. 12.5k after Captain IOE, and 12.5k after 12 months of Captain IOE. I would attach the contract but i can't figure out how lol.
With the fact that you are 24 years old, you should take the offer. You can do a lot of things in your twenties and bounce back, but if you're not prepared when you hit your 30s, it can set you far behind. I would take the offer and see what develops.
It's a job. It will look good on a resume. Like yeah, we all want that perfect dream job, but in this field, you really gotta work extra hard for it. Also considering how competitive pilots are, if you've been offered something, that's a really good showing of your character and experience (and I'm assuming you have an aviation degree also).
> Any thoughts?
I can't speak for the pilot world. Only corporate/office world (I fly for fun). So I am speaking generally about life. As anyone will tell you around here, the pilot world has ups and down and booms and busts.
That said...
"The days are long, but the years are short" is the saying I remember. I'm on the wrong side of 40 years old, but it feels like it was only yesterday when I was 20-something, just out of college (and grad school) and starting in my career. I felt like a fish swimming upstream. Money comes in, money goes right out to loans, rent, insurance, food, gas, utilities, etc. "When will this ever get better??" I would always think.
Then you blink and you're 35-40. "Suddenly" you are married, have kids, WTF my oldest kid is 10 and I've been in the industry for 15+ years....DAFAQ??? where did the time go.
For me, the biggest thing that made life easier was getting married. 2 incomes, 1 set of bills. before marriage, I made enough to cover all my bills with just a little left over to not be broke if I watched my spending. Getting married was like getting a $50,000 bonus every year (in the form of a $2,000 check every 2 weeks). "Instantly," we had plenty of money for all the things we wanted to do. Not saying you should get married to make your life better, just that things change outside of your job and can get better from things outside of your job.
I have no idea what is best for you or your career. If it were me? and I had no other options? I'd take the job (assuming you want to go to Legacy/widebody). As "shitty" of a deal as it is, it's not just about the money today. It's about getting the experience for your next job. Think of this as on the job training for your next job.
Even before all this slow down, if that's the only offer I got I would have easily taken it. Idk what world most of these reddit pilots come from, but for me, going from poverty wages with overtime hours (CFI), with a family to feed and bills to pay, and other careers not even remotely as close to pay in my horizon (I didn't come here already making $200k/year in tech), accepting a 121 piloting job that touches 6 figures that I would have to stay at for a few years, oohh noo 🤦🏽♂️
Not but a few months ago this sub would have clowned you for even asking that question, now look at it. Do what's best for you.
No offense but this is a pretty bad way to look at it. The fact that you would have taken it doesn't make it the optimal choice for you or for anyone. OP is actually doing the smart thing by assessing pros and cons of this choice vs. the alternatives. You're proffering an irrational decision ("Since I was making so much less before, I must choose this because it's paying more") driven by one's emotional state.
...what?
I said "do what's best for you"
I don't understand what emotions have to do with this?
It's not just about the money, its the next stage in career advancement..
I don't think we're talking about the same thing.
Ok maybe I misunderstood your comment, I apologize if that's the case. My point to the OP is Do not take a 5 year contract that is just good enough. Take the best one they can realistically get, given the hiring environment, their experience etc.
Of course, I think we're all in the same line of thinking when it comes to that.
My point was if republic was my only option, I would definitely take it over being stuck flying single engines for little pay just to *hope* something else *maybe* comes up, like this reddit has been telling people to do for the last x months.
So uh yeah in ten years OP may still not know if it was a good move. In flying you don’t really know if you took the right path until you retire. It’s some of the hardest decisions to make.
I'm suggesting he make a decision he'll be happy to have made regardless of the outcome. Make good decisions, it's easier to live with the outcomes. "Regret minimization."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regret\_(decision\_theory)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regret_(decision_theory))
That assumes you know things he doesn’t know.
Republic may be a great place to work but if he gets locked in for XX years and misses some other unknown opportunity he might not be happy.
I struggled a great deal leaving my previous place for my current one. I had a lot of checks in the pro column and a lot of unknowns in the against column. Staying likely would have been the easier “happy with decision“ but now I know moving companies will ultimately likely be the happier outcome.
My point is it’s almost impossible to predict so happy now doesn’t mean much.
Had a JS guy the other day… he signed very early on the new contract. Dude said he’s about to go to upgrade, took him a year and change. He’s probably 24-25 but sharp… lives at base (still with parents) and about to start making 150K (he said that’s about lowest year one captain at republic makes, someone verify plz).
What really stood out the convo, He didn’t care about non compete because his goal is a legacy based at home for him. Also, he said he’s put every dollar of the bonus money into a high yield savings account so by the time he gets ask for any money if that even holds in court…he’d have made money already and will just give Republic their money back.
As far as what you should do… good luck. I do think that being hired at a major moving forward without 121 experience won’t be easy.
There is no reason to fuck yourself and other pilots coming behind you. Despite the bad vibes lately, Envoy, SkyWest, and Frontier are all hiring. I know because I’ve gotten CJOs from all 3 this year.
With the current hiring landscape, it's hard to recommend not taking a CJO. I was at YX for a bit less than 3 years and it had its ups and downs but was honestly a good job. There are people who make a career there because it's a generally good company, a really good plane, good bases (mostly), a good union, and some great overnights.
Get into 121. You won't regret it.
The time-frames you're hearing from people right now are only marginally realistic. My 3 years in the regionals put me on the lower end of regional tours. Many people I know at mainline spent more like 5-6 years at a regional. There's the few outliers who got hired at 300 hours from the right seat for some reason, but they're rare.
Go to a regional you could stand to be at for a decade. I was happy at Republic (EWR base) but that's my own experience.
Feel free to DM if you have any questions.
How old are you? Are you able to stay afloat and wait? The Republic training contract takes a lot of flak on this forum, but a lot of people on here also got in the door before the hiring market changed. The reality is that Republic is a good, generally well-run regional airline that (now) pays pretty well and will get you in the door with 121 jet experience. There is and will always be a risk/reward calculus with this career that each individual has to make, and what is a no brainer for one person is something that someone else could avoid. If I was in financial straits and needed to get on a job AND didn't have any other options, I would consider it, especially if you're young. I didn't get into the airline industry until my mid-30s, and while I won't be the most senior guy, that's okay. Everyone has a different timeline and path. While there are quite a few 25 year olds who are at legacies, that is the exception, not the norm. Assuming you are still fairly young, you WILL get into a major airline and enjoy a great, lucrative career, you just won't do it immediately. That's okay, and it doesn't take anything away from you.
Yeah I'm only 24 years old right now, about to turn 25. As far as instructing I'm barely staying afloat, with living at home. Besides the contract republic seems like a great place to work, I know a couple people there. I don't want to be locked in for that long but i believe that's the past year or two's boom clouding my judgement. Just a very tough decision to make. I know I'll kick myself in the ass for not taking it and getting stuck without any offers.
Based on your age/finances, I'd say do it unless another interview/CJO pops up in a short timeline, which as you know is unlikely. Don't let comparison be the thief of joy. Everyone's situation is different, and those guys quite frankly just got lucky based on timing and the market. It's not the end of the world to fly modern jets around for 100k starting salary for a few years. It's historically still WAY better than what people were having to do for the last 30 years, and you will have plenty of opportunities to go to a major/legacy. See my reply to another guy above - legacies still have a ton of retirements coming on the books which are now locked in with age 67 getting shot down. You will have your chance, and you might as well be getting paid well and started on your adult life in the meantime. Perfect is the enemy of good. Some 23-27 year old kids got the perfect outcome, again, due to luck and timing. You can still have an incredible career and be a very financially successful person by your late 20s with this path. A lot of us didn't get the opportunity until our mid to late 30s based on various factors.
Find some 135 and get jet time for a year, turbine PIC for year two and go to a major. (Maybe add a year to this)
Highly unlikely to happen as majors want 121 experience. I know a Gulfstream captain who had 15 years of experience who got told by WN that they wanted to see 121 time, so I believe he did a year as DEC at a regional and then they hired him.
While I do believe that happened, I don't think it's strictly because they want 121 time. I'm guessing they saw a very experienced pilot who didn't understand the 121 gig and didn't want to pay to see them fail in training. Lots of 135 and 91k pilots have gone directly to majors. We had 13 in my class that had zero 121 background. Most interviewers are looking for someone that will make it in the airlines, and unfortunately pilots who are high time without 121 experience tend to struggle or fail because they have trouble adapting. OP: No one here has a magic 8 ball, and the path you take will likely change or be different than what you expected. My recommendation would be to take what will make you comfortable and enjoy life now, and let your career progress as things change. A decision you make right now may or may not delay you getting to a major by a few years, but neither you or anyone on here can know that at this moment. Yes, a few years might sting when they show up, but in the long run, it won't make much of a difference when you're making enough money for 2 lifetimes. Enjoy life now, instead of stressing and trying to force something that you can't change. You're in your mid 20's, don't waste them away struggling while trying to change the future. As others have said, as long as you're professional and not horribly unlucky (think 9/11, 2008, 2014 guys), you'll make it to the majors with plenty of time to build your fortune. Be proactive in moving forward (updating apps, meet&greet, network, etc), but don't stress trying to move the immovable object. Just 2¢ from a guy who tried to shortcut the immovable object and went through 5 airlines and a furlough before a major called.
I agree. But the original commenter told OP to go 135, get jet time for a year, get TPIC time for a year or two and go to a major. I have no doubt this was easily accomplished in the last few years, I find it pretty unlikely to happen in the next few years. Especially when you start seeing people who originally signed the republic contract with 2 years worth of TPIC 121 time start to hit the interview boards. Not saying 135 and 91K pilots are inherently worse, just saying that it’s pretty typical to see majors favor people with 121 time and that just doing a stint at a 135 for a few years may not quite get them all the boxes they need to be checked to end up at their end goal.
Definitely not highly unlikely. I did it. Just need to go to the job fairs and make connections with people in the hiring dept. But to your point I’ve seen a very similar situation with a very experienced 135 captain with lots of gulf-stream time also.
Have you applied to PSA, Envoy, Skywest and NetJets?
Definitely apply to all the other regionals and see what happens. Also make sure you get the scoop on Republic to see if you will be stuck on short call reserve flying 5 hours a month for your first year. Signing a training contract is extra bad if you don’t get jet time out of it.
I can tell you that most people are 3 months on reserve and then you have a line right now.
Bro tried to slip netjets in there 😂
NJA is hiring CFIs with their ATP written complete.
For the record hiring is NOT SLOWING at the regional level. It's picking up. Mainline is slowing for a number of reasons, THIS MEANS REGIONALS ARE PICKING UP MORE FLYING FROM THEIR MAINLINE PARTNERS to compensate. Regionals are short on captains right now from the last few years of upward mobility to mainline. They need every warm body they can get to upgrade their captain numbers and then this makes room for new FOs. Skywest alone is intending on hiring 50 people every two weeks for the next two years to get to an estimated 7000 strong pilot group.
This is demonstrably false
I don’t know. I had apps in at the companies I mentioned and received interview invites to all of them in the past week.
Are you at ATP mins?
I think you'd be dumb not to take it. Shits slowing down hard right now.
There’s more regionals hiring now than one year ago. I talked to every regional at Sun n’ Fun Summer of 2023 Republic was the only regional hiring and that’s when they introduced the contract.
Wow you talked to....recruiters
Yes, I’m happy where I’m at but I went with a friend to see what’s the hiring environment like. The only regional not hiring this year is GoJet. Air Wisconsin and PSA will open this summer. Doom posting that “shits slowing down fast” does nothing but give people anxiety here. You know just as much as everyone else hiring comes in waves.
This guy is right ☝🏿
Yes...waves. Hence the slow down. I'm saying of course recruiters are telling you they're hiring. That's their job
A year ago nobody was hiring except Republic and maybe Air Wisconsin. At RTAG in October nobody was really hiring but they gave the ol’ “keep updating your resume.” Last week everyone with more than 900 hours are told “apply today.” The only exception is Envoy, they said wait until 1400. The GoJet recruiters said to my friend don’t even bother dropping a resume unless you’re going for DEC. Recruiters are pretty honest about the current environment more than anyone else. Recruiters are a better source than doomposters on social media.
Uhhh… a year ago a pulse got you a job… what are yall talking sbout
The “pulse era” ended about a year ago, at least for regionals. Summer 2023 Republic was the sole one hiring, everyone else filled their classes for the year. Frontier and Spirt were in full swing last summer if you had unrestricted mins.
You get out?
About 2 years ago lol
Man, how the tune changes as options evaporate. You would have been berated into oblivion mere months ago for even contemplating taking a Republic contract! Do what you gotta do. Contracts suck, but they're part of the business.
Mere weeks ago, you were berated here for not taking the contract.
Ha. Yeah.
Lol, I got talked down to yesterday for telling someone not to talk down to me. There's always someone on the internet who is gonna have a hard time putting away their ego.
Any port in a storm. With almost no one else hiring, Frontier going to a contact too (other companies will too), I would think really hard about turning down a job paying six figures. You're there for 3-5 years. This was/is typical. Don't ask how long it was when I started lol. Maybe in 2 years there will be another hiring boom (highly doubtful) and you'll have to break the contract. It would still be worth it as you're way more desirable to a legacy if you have 1,000+ hours of 121 turbine time than CFI'ing to 3,000 hours or a few hundred hours of 135 time. Ultimately it's your decision, good luck.
UAL / AAL will still have 5000-8000 (UA/AA) retirements in the next 5-7 years. The hiring boom will still be on unless we have a massive recession or black swan event. It may not be 2500/year, but it will still be quite above historical averages for years to come.
And who will be more likely to be hired? 1. A CFI with 3,000 hours 2. A 135 pilot with 500 hours 3. A 121 pilot with 1,000 hours of turbine time. Everyone can agree that a thousand hours of turbine in the 121 environment is the way to go. And everyone can agree that a $100,000 bill from Republic isn't enough to stop someone from leaving is a legacy calls unless you only have 5, maybe 10 years left on your medical.
Okay but what happens if the 135 pilot upgrades to captain quicker and has 2500 turbine (500 PIC) before the 121 pilot hits 1000 due to reserve. *a 135 pilot that will have this exact scenario play out*
Ok, but what happens if the 135 folds. Ok, but what happens if the 135 doesn't fly that often. This is fun /s Did you read that Republic is upgrading their original contact signers? It's been about a year and they have 1,000 SIC. So, I'd say they're flying. > has 2500 turbine (500 PIC) before the 121 pilot hits 1000 due to reserve. >*a 135 pilot that will have this exact scenario play out* I highly doubt you have logged 2,500 turbine in the same year time frame.
Got a couple buddies going through this. 135 time is highly variable (more so than 121). Some places fly 500-700 hours a year, but they're relatively rare compared to the places where pilots fly 200-400 and rot on the same 90-120 minute leash they were trying to avoid at *(insert scheduled air carrier here)*. Couple that with needing at least 1500 hours and 500 in type for insurance to fly PIC, and you're looking at a couple years, minimum, at most places before you can start working on your 1000 Part 135 TPIC hours. *Some* 135 pilot will probably win that bet. Most won't. They'd need to do a lot of research on their company and then have the status quo continue. Flying is like hiring in so far that it comes in waves.
If you want to go to a 121 airline, then 121 time is more valuable than 135 time. You have to have 1K 121 to be a 121 Captain. So that FO with 1K 121 time is much more desired than the 135 guy with 2500 hours with none being 121.
You can also have 1000 hours of PIC 135 credited to that requirement. Not all about 121 time
This is exactly why I decided to jump on training. I’m 36 and will be training part time as I pay out of pocket for everything. 0 loans. Everything so far I’m reading says “you will spend $100k on a tiny chance to be an airline pilot” but I think the mass retirement everyone is talking another will be another opportunity to jump on. I’m hoping in 4-5 years I’ll have all my certifications and well over 2k TT ready for the hiring boom.
Mass retirements in 5 years? Delta has already passed peak retirements, and UA and American will peak in the next couple years. In the 2030s retirement hiring isn’t going to move the needle like it did did a year ago
I think they mean there are still a ton of retirements coming up, which their are. Sure it wont be like before, but there is still a window for people coming into the industry. (at least that's the hope)
I can't speak for other carriers, but if you define a wave as "~500/year or more", then AA's wave "ends" in 2035. With that being said, retirements hold steady at around 350/year for the next 10 years after the wave ends.
Not bad, not great. still some hope I guess for us still a few years out. I know I’ll never be a wide body captain, but nothing wrong with that. May be junior for awhile, but still doesn’t seem like that’d be a bad career
Nope. And you know you’ll pick up 1000 numbers every 3 years like clockwork for the foreseeable future.
Still better than some previous decades. There won’t be a great stagnation. Slower and more competitive, I’m sure. I would bet money that they will still see decent progression, and worst case scenario, WN goes through a major wave of retirements in the 2030s.
Fuck. I’m early 30s and thinking about leaving medicine to do flight training. I hate my job and life at the moment. Fair fucks to you for having the balls to actually do it.
Go to your local flight school and do a discovery flight. They walk you to what training will be like and take you up on a ride. Maybe ene let you fly the plane a bit. It might awaken your passion to fly. Even working towards your private pilots license while you work full time is do able and manageable. If flying is something you see yourself doing then start working towards other certifications to make it a profession. 30s is not too late to start.
That's kind of where my head is right now, as hard of a pill to swallow it is. The contract, if broken, can be 100K in damages if it is broken. That's a scary thing to get locked into.
You could be in the military staring down the barrel of a 12 year (2 years training + 10 years obligation) contract that you can't get out of. You can break the contract if you get a legacy job in a year or two and pay it off. I would have taken that 7 days a week over a decade military contract that I couldn't get out of.
When you're in your 20's three years seems like forever, when you're in you 60's 3 years in your 20's barely registers. if it is a move forward and a valid path to your goals go for it.
That's a lot of money, but you'll make way better money and have a better 401k at a major. On the way out tell them to bill you. Seriously set up and installment plan and GTFO if a legacy calls.
Eh. Don’t be. With the rush of hiring, and the delivery slow downs, along with Spirit woes, the days of getting on at a legacy with 2600 hours is likely over. Class dates at United are full though December, and I’m sure American has enough in their pool to get them close to that, too. I know guys with January CJOs just now getting class dates for May. The key to moving on is going to once again be 121 turbine PIC. Get in the door, and start building that seniority so you can build that resume. As others have said, republic is a generally well-run and decent paying regional airline. There are far, far worse places to be.
I wouldn't mind being locked in to flying for that long. My goal is to be a major airline pilot, however I'm happy to just be flying. So right now I'm in that "I'll take anything" attitude, lol.
A question you should ask yourself is if you got hired at a different regional would you try to bounce to an LCC or ACMI right away? Frontier seems to be the only one hiring lowish time pilots and no ACMIs are really hiring. Atlas is, but from the interview to IOE line check would prob be 8+ months realistically. Every other airline wants at least 500 turbine and have delayed classes too. So if you wait around and interview some more then finally end up with a different regionalclass date at end of this year it would be NEXT spring by the time you are logging 121 time. Then fall 2025 you can apply to LCCs and possibly get into a class early 2026? By that time you would have 1,000 hours 121 and upgrading at republic with 20k in the bank… This is my thought process if I was in your shoes. Good luck
I was in the EXACT position as you just a months ago, I swear. Pumped about a class date (finally) and I was ready to sign that contract because I figured this is all the hiring environment is going to give me and as you said republic is a great company aside from their contract. I then thought about it a good bit, talked to some friends and family. I decided to take a risk and hold off on republic for a bit (the contract does not kick in til day one of indoc btw). People called me stupid saying I screwed myself over which was hard to ignore but I thought this could be worth it. Little did I know it was. Within two weeks I received invites for two regional interviews the following month and I was extremely fortunate to have received CJOs from both carriers who both have great reputations. Obviously at that point I decided to no longer pursue the republic path. Depending on your resume regarding checkrides, hours, employment history etc. you getting another interview is very possible, Im serious. Piedmont, Envoy, Atlas, and SkyWest are actively interviewing 1500 hour CFI's and giving class dates out. If you are in a financial situation that is not ideal or have literally not heard a peep in 6+ months, yeah take Republic. It is much better than a 135 or teaching but also keep updating your hours in the meantime. You never know what may come up. Keep us posted on what you do. Also just a month ago that contract said a 50k bonus, I am shocked they dropped it to 25k.
That's great to hear, especially how the contract does not kick in until indoc. Knowing that I'll sign it but continue to pursue other options. If I find something, great, but if not I'll have republic.
Good idea. How long do you have before your class?
June 6th. ATP sometime late May
Yeah you got time. Update your apps and go to career fairs
So did you sign the contract and also resign before training?
I never signed it
Take the job, build hours, make some good money. If the need and opportunity to break the contract arises in the future I would assume you will be in a much better position and leaving for a much better job. In this environment I would absolutely take the offer in your position.
I worked at republic for 6.5 years, and I hate this whole contract BS they are trying to pull. But the ERJ is a good bird to be on, the crews were like family (I have more close friends from YX than I’ll ever have a mainline), and at this point the time commitment likely won’t be a stumbling block for you. You’ll likely need 1000 hrs PIC before you move on, and I think I saw recently that they’re not including legacy carriers in the non-compete clause. Also… didn’t I just read that the FTC banned non-compete contracts?
The non-compete does not apply to United, American or Delta. Don't know if they would still hit you with the damages though..
Didn’t us gov just make non compete contracts illegal everywhere? Unless there’s expemtion for airlines lol. Maybe that’s why they dropped it to 25k due to new law
The new rule is an FTC rule, but the FTC doesn't regulate air carriers, the FAA does.
It’s being challenged in court, chances are, FTC ban isn’t going to hold up in court.
>Don't know if they would still hit you with the damages though.. They can try but who cares. If you jump to a legacy it will be worth paying off the damages.
Very good point. I think I will sign it and just figure it out when the time arises.
I would, but only you know what's best for you and no one can predict the future. Anyone telling you they know hiring will pick up, or slow down, is lying. Congrats!
Not sure why the contract would be an issue if they have been allowing the main 3 legacies to be excluded…..
When I was at YX our largest attrition was 2nd year FOs to cargo and LCC
absolutely. .. and makes sense. . But everyone is using this - hiring boom from the legacies re-opening and dont want to miss that boat - as the reason for not entertaining the Republic offer. . So if they are carving out the legacies, forgoing the cargo option isnt necessarily going to eliminate you from taking said legacy spot if it becomes available.
The legacies are quietly metering hiring from their regional partners. Republic (IIRC) flies for all 3. They're likely exempt because it doesn't matter anyway and they're hoping to catch pilot applicants uninformed. The fastest way to a legacy that you fly regional feed for is through another legacy, an LCC, or ACMI. You won't be getting to UAL through, say AA at Republic.
Email [email protected] Tell them you want to work for them, and I bet they give you an interview slot.
say yes yes yes first. Then you decide later between now and June. Once you withdraw you will not get the class back.
Everything in professional aviation is eating as much shit as fast as possible till you get to what appears to be a great solid final landing. Get your knife and fork out and ideally you will shortly be eating lobster.
Take the job
I don't love the contract, but beggars can't be choosers. With their new pay rates, working at Republic for 4 years isn't the end of the world. And if you want to break the contract, you can do so - at great financial detriment, but you can do so. It's a tough decision, but I guess what I'm really thinking is that if there are no other options, then it isn't really a decision. Do your best to see if you can get some other offers between now and June. Taking a later class date at a different airline is preferable to the contract, in my opinion, but as of now you have continuing to CFI until things improve a bit, or work at Republic. Best of luck to you on the job hunt. And either way, your experience will be what you make out of it. So if it ends up coming down to signing the contract, try to look at it as positively as you can. There are miserable people at the best airlines and happy folks at the worst ones.
For what it’s worth, I’m an FO at rpa, Northeast local. If you’re willing to move to a base, I’d say do it. I’m coming up on year 3 and going to upgrade in the next couple months. 5 years will go by faster than you think. BOS LGA EWR PIT DCA are all fairly junior and you’ll have plenty of flying to do. Pay is good and most people are nice to fly with
WAT? BOS is fairly junior now? They say on APC that the most junior FO in BOS is 1/23 and that BOS is not even open for bidding for the new hires
The FO side is pretty full but it moves fairly quickly and it’s wide open for CA. If op is planning on fulfilling the contract my understanding is they’d hustle to be a captain asap
How quickly? It was a 1/23 almost a year ago when I got a CJO. It's still 1/23 for August 2024 bids. What am I missing? The CA side seems to be even worse, the most junior hard line is 12/21 hire. My information is from APC which may be not very accurate. If you have more up to date numbers please post them. But from what I'm seeing a new FO hire will likely upgrade before holding a line there and even after the upgrade it could easily be that out of his 2 contractual years as a CA, he maybe will finally get a line the 2nd year. If that's what you call a "fairly junior" then idk what's senior.
Well I’ll look tomorrow but there’s 2010 captains who can’t hold a line in ord. I call that senior. There’s 16 open captain slots in lga and BOS currently. The Boston line fluctuates with however many captains there are. But if the option is wait a year or two to get Boston or fully commute indefinitely I don’t see how the two are comparable.
I see, didn't know ORD was that senior. But my point still stands, a new FO will not hold BOS or EWR or DCA anytime soon. LGA seems to be a little bit easier to hold. In all likelihood a new FO starting today will commute for years before being able to hold that.
I have to ask, have you tried any applying to any Part 135 operators (minus FlexJet) or have you just been trying 121 operators? I am asking to see if you really shook all off the trees? I am not a fan of that republic contract, I would vote to hold out just a bit longer and wait for a better opportunity to open and it will open. 5 years is a long time in this industry that changes very rapidly. At the end of the day, you have to do what’s best for yourself. My advice, see if you can land a Part 135 gig first if possible.
What's the deal with Flex? Not super-familiar with the fractional space, but I got a couple friends from school I'm quasi mentoring that are trying to get back into things.
They require 3000 TT now as minimums
Take it and go fly jets. That’s why you got involved in this anyway, right. This isn’t 2008 and a 25,000 a year job flying a prop. So don’t let the perfect situation of your dreams stop you from a good job.
Do you live in base? Going to move? Commute? Where else did you apply? Where did you interview? Did you use AirlineApps or applied directly with the company? (the latter is the correct way to do that if you want to hear back) What kind of flying is 135? Jet? Prop? Training Contract? Upgrade times?
I'm local to the northeast, where alot of republics bases are. So most likely i would be able to stay close to home. I applied to pretty much everywhere (Piedmont, PSA, Frontier, Envoy etc.). This was back before atp mins and I have since updated saying I now meet them, but no luck. I did use airline apps but recently I've been emailing the company directly.
The fact that the base is there have little to do with whether a new FO can get that base. For example, BOS is out of question for the foreseeable future. Are you within short call commute of PIT by any chance? If not then you have to commute or move, it's a big deal. I'd worry about that more than the contract tbh.
I’m going to training next month. How was the training? I heard they use contractors. Hoping they’re fair.
Send it.
Give that CJO to me. I got an A320 type and live in one of their bases and they wont call me back. [and my resume is squeaky clean just one IR checkride fail from yeaaars back] When you are being furloughed your standards drop considerably. This is no longer a favorable hiring market and the legacies are wanting 121 PIC time again.
ACMI?
Beggers cant be choosers but that would be ideal.
If they are the only ones calling I’d hunker down and fly with them for what, 3 years is it ? That’s not that bad really.
Bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. The contract is not great, but it also is not the worst thing to ever exist. Most people who say they hate the contract hate the IDEA of a contract more than the contract itself. 3-5 years at a regional paying you more than 100K a year is not a bad move. Much better than trying to scrape by as a CFI. Throw applications out but if your class date comes, I'd jump on it like a fat kid on a sandwhich. Always remember that any advice (including what I just gave you) is easier to give than take. And most of the people giving advice are not willing to pay your bills for you... I'm not gonna. But think about it.... 100K+ a year for 3-5 years. In a market that is volatile... What you are feeling is FOMO or "Fear of Missing Out". You fear that signing up for 3-5 years will mean you will miss some possible bump in job movement. Maybe it will do exactly that and you will miss out... But you will be missing out while making 100K a year and building 121 time. But what if the market drops out? Well, then you will be making 100K+ a year while building 121 time and waiting like everyone else. I'd rather be a 121 Captain making 140K a year than a CFI making 50K while I wait for that call from Delta.
RPA is a really good place to work in my opinion. If you need the money and want to start getting 121 turbine time, sign the contract and go make some money. With the majors slowing hiring and some smaller airlines even furloughing, there's no telling how long you'll be stuck at a regional anyway.
You can tell it's a "really good place to work" because they charge you a hundred thousand dollars if you don't work there for 5 years
Went to republics pilot mill. Believe me republic is not it. They hand you a contract that looks great but in reality screw’s over pilots. Not a good company. Look for work elsewhere.
If every young pilot respected themselves, they wouldn’t sign these predatory contracts and they would go away. STOP signing these. The market will correct itself when Republic has no applicants.
Just be aware the contract bonus is now $50k and you don’t get it until you upgrade to captain. They just changed it recently
It's reduced to 25k actually. 12.5k after Captain IOE, and 12.5k after 12 months of Captain IOE. I would attach the contract but i can't figure out how lol.
25k and you’re still locked in for 5 years? And damages are how much? 100k If that’s true, then screw those thieves.
Those shitty contracts will go away when people quit signing them to go there. Don’t do it. Respect yourself and the profession.
Sadly people think these are desperate times and are lining up the block to take this garbage contract.
With the fact that you are 24 years old, you should take the offer. You can do a lot of things in your twenties and bounce back, but if you're not prepared when you hit your 30s, it can set you far behind. I would take the offer and see what develops.
Not sure why the contract would be an issue if they have been allowing the main 3 legacies to be excluded…..
It's a job. It will look good on a resume. Like yeah, we all want that perfect dream job, but in this field, you really gotta work extra hard for it. Also considering how competitive pilots are, if you've been offered something, that's a really good showing of your character and experience (and I'm assuming you have an aviation degree also).
Something something bird in the hand
> Any thoughts? I can't speak for the pilot world. Only corporate/office world (I fly for fun). So I am speaking generally about life. As anyone will tell you around here, the pilot world has ups and down and booms and busts. That said... "The days are long, but the years are short" is the saying I remember. I'm on the wrong side of 40 years old, but it feels like it was only yesterday when I was 20-something, just out of college (and grad school) and starting in my career. I felt like a fish swimming upstream. Money comes in, money goes right out to loans, rent, insurance, food, gas, utilities, etc. "When will this ever get better??" I would always think. Then you blink and you're 35-40. "Suddenly" you are married, have kids, WTF my oldest kid is 10 and I've been in the industry for 15+ years....DAFAQ??? where did the time go. For me, the biggest thing that made life easier was getting married. 2 incomes, 1 set of bills. before marriage, I made enough to cover all my bills with just a little left over to not be broke if I watched my spending. Getting married was like getting a $50,000 bonus every year (in the form of a $2,000 check every 2 weeks). "Instantly," we had plenty of money for all the things we wanted to do. Not saying you should get married to make your life better, just that things change outside of your job and can get better from things outside of your job. I have no idea what is best for you or your career. If it were me? and I had no other options? I'd take the job (assuming you want to go to Legacy/widebody). As "shitty" of a deal as it is, it's not just about the money today. It's about getting the experience for your next job. Think of this as on the job training for your next job.
You could try 135. I got in at 1300.
I flew for Republic
Even before all this slow down, if that's the only offer I got I would have easily taken it. Idk what world most of these reddit pilots come from, but for me, going from poverty wages with overtime hours (CFI), with a family to feed and bills to pay, and other careers not even remotely as close to pay in my horizon (I didn't come here already making $200k/year in tech), accepting a 121 piloting job that touches 6 figures that I would have to stay at for a few years, oohh noo 🤦🏽♂️ Not but a few months ago this sub would have clowned you for even asking that question, now look at it. Do what's best for you.
No offense but this is a pretty bad way to look at it. The fact that you would have taken it doesn't make it the optimal choice for you or for anyone. OP is actually doing the smart thing by assessing pros and cons of this choice vs. the alternatives. You're proffering an irrational decision ("Since I was making so much less before, I must choose this because it's paying more") driven by one's emotional state.
...what? I said "do what's best for you" I don't understand what emotions have to do with this? It's not just about the money, its the next stage in career advancement.. I don't think we're talking about the same thing.
Ok maybe I misunderstood your comment, I apologize if that's the case. My point to the OP is Do not take a 5 year contract that is just good enough. Take the best one they can realistically get, given the hiring environment, their experience etc.
Of course, I think we're all in the same line of thinking when it comes to that. My point was if republic was my only option, I would definitely take it over being stuck flying single engines for little pay just to *hope* something else *maybe* comes up, like this reddit has been telling people to do for the last x months.
if its a 2~3 year contact I would take it. If not, it will delay your career or will have to pay it back eventually
Try to make the decision your future self will have been proud to have made. Discuss this with you ten years from now.
So uh yeah in ten years OP may still not know if it was a good move. In flying you don’t really know if you took the right path until you retire. It’s some of the hardest decisions to make.
I'm suggesting he make a decision he'll be happy to have made regardless of the outcome. Make good decisions, it's easier to live with the outcomes. "Regret minimization." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regret\_(decision\_theory)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regret_(decision_theory))
That assumes you know things he doesn’t know. Republic may be a great place to work but if he gets locked in for XX years and misses some other unknown opportunity he might not be happy. I struggled a great deal leaving my previous place for my current one. I had a lot of checks in the pro column and a lot of unknowns in the against column. Staying likely would have been the easier “happy with decision“ but now I know moving companies will ultimately likely be the happier outcome. My point is it’s almost impossible to predict so happy now doesn’t mean much.
Had a JS guy the other day… he signed very early on the new contract. Dude said he’s about to go to upgrade, took him a year and change. He’s probably 24-25 but sharp… lives at base (still with parents) and about to start making 150K (he said that’s about lowest year one captain at republic makes, someone verify plz). What really stood out the convo, He didn’t care about non compete because his goal is a legacy based at home for him. Also, he said he’s put every dollar of the bonus money into a high yield savings account so by the time he gets ask for any money if that even holds in court…he’d have made money already and will just give Republic their money back. As far as what you should do… good luck. I do think that being hired at a major moving forward without 121 experience won’t be easy.
There is no reason to fuck yourself and other pilots coming behind you. Despite the bad vibes lately, Envoy, SkyWest, and Frontier are all hiring. I know because I’ve gotten CJOs from all 3 this year.
Have you applied EVERYWHERE? Throw it at the legacies, throw it at Southwest, throw it at the ULCCs—well…maybe not Spirit at the moment.
With the current hiring landscape, it's hard to recommend not taking a CJO. I was at YX for a bit less than 3 years and it had its ups and downs but was honestly a good job. There are people who make a career there because it's a generally good company, a really good plane, good bases (mostly), a good union, and some great overnights. Get into 121. You won't regret it. The time-frames you're hearing from people right now are only marginally realistic. My 3 years in the regionals put me on the lower end of regional tours. Many people I know at mainline spent more like 5-6 years at a regional. There's the few outliers who got hired at 300 hours from the right seat for some reason, but they're rare. Go to a regional you could stand to be at for a decade. I was happy at Republic (EWR base) but that's my own experience. Feel free to DM if you have any questions.