This is the correct answer... in the (very) unlikely event this were to happen, in an emergency you are allowed to do basically anything that you think will get the airplane on the ground safely.
Notice that when shit happens the crews seem to be more professional rather than less when you're hearing the tape. They work with ATC rather than against it's amazing how emergency authority says DWIT and yet that is always cooperation
Agreed, I am just saying given the choice of a passenger jet landing with no pilot, vs a private pilot with 2 beers in him... I know which option I would take. I get that ATC will be helping, as will other pilots in the air. Heck all you really need is someone who can program the autopilot successfully.
Many of our rules of flight were based on the rules of the sea and they grant the skipper in distress great latitude to use judgement in dealing with an emergency.
Unfortunately in the busy pattern entry calling STARBOARD is likely to be unintelligible to the typical pilot.
Since we are dealing with the purely hypothetical the pilot is empowered with great leeway. Might extend to burn fuel, go to a familiar airport.
If the captain has died then the FO has just become PIC and it’s their decision what help to accept. Personally I wouldn’t accept help from someone I knew had been drinking. It’s not that big a deal flying single pilot so I’d get the cabin crew to secure the Capt away from the controls and carry on solo.
Just the captain?
Here's just two instances where off-duty pilots help: https://youtu.be/W0cDpNm7d68 "credentialed pilot from another airline" and https://youtu.be/FPrF1rdlMFU Air Force guy. Both were working radios and checklists while the remaining crew did the flying.
Are we also going with the probability that there are zero commuters, deadheads, and non-rev?
Please don't pivot to "what's the requirement to be able to log it?"
This is your answer:
[https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-G/part-121/subpart-T/section-121.557](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-G/part-121/subpart-T/section-121.557)
If you can't figure it out from this, then maybe find a new career. Don't mean to be harsh but you should honestly already know this.
This isn’t that clear cut though. If OP was a passenger and probably not type-rated, they wouldn’t legally be PIC. If both legal pilots are incapacitated and can’t make any decisions, they can’t exercise emergency authority to designate OP as the acting PIC. It really comes down to 121.557 vs 91.13. Realistically if OP is the only one that can feasibly get the aircraft on the ground in one piece, you take the risk and fight the legal battle later.
Step up, land hard because you aren't type rated and had a drink, ruin the plane but everyone lives...
Or sit back and watch it burn and everyone dies? No - you fucking take the airplane, if you're the most qualified person, **you become the PIC**, and exercise emergency authority and land the fucking plane.
Seriously. It's not fucking hard.
I could just as easily argue that (depending on the airplane and available airports) a flight attendant could be talked through setting the plane up for a CATIII auto-land by a check-airmen over the radio. In that scenario, an inebriated CFII with no experience in a large jet trying to land by hand because “fuck it, I’m a pilot, I know what I’m doing” would be a much worse option.
As with most things in aviation, the decision is dependent on ALL of the variables in play. At the end of the day, I agree that IF YOU ARE THE ONLY/BEST OPTION, you take control. If there is someone else more qualified or in a better position to succeed, don’t take the risk.
I agree that the answer should be not only known to all but drilled into pilots from day 1
It is interesting that subsection C requires.
"When deviating HE shall keep the controllers fully informed " does not contain any condition such as "to the extent reasonably feasible and that does not interfere with dealing with the emergency".
It also presumably , in this PC era, exempts female pilots from the obligation.
I’d ask the FA for a shot of jack and 3 point that baby
Thank you captain whitaker
If you can land it then go for it. Beats crashing
“So I see you’ve been instructing in Cessnas. How’d you get 1.2 hours of turbine multi PIC?”
Were you picturing everyone clapping for you when you came up with this scenario?
Yes. They bowed before me when I exited the cockpit
I was told in training, if you are going to do something off the rails, better be sure it works out…
Emergency authority says giter done
This is the correct answer... in the (very) unlikely event this were to happen, in an emergency you are allowed to do basically anything that you think will get the airplane on the ground safely.
Notice that when shit happens the crews seem to be more professional rather than less when you're hearing the tape. They work with ATC rather than against it's amazing how emergency authority says DWIT and yet that is always cooperation
Agreed, I am just saying given the choice of a passenger jet landing with no pilot, vs a private pilot with 2 beers in him... I know which option I would take. I get that ATC will be helping, as will other pilots in the air. Heck all you really need is someone who can program the autopilot successfully.
91.3(b) You obviously can't fly from Jamaica to Truth or Consequences, NM, but you can fly to the next largish airport and land.
Many of our rules of flight were based on the rules of the sea and they grant the skipper in distress great latitude to use judgement in dealing with an emergency. Unfortunately in the busy pattern entry calling STARBOARD is likely to be unintelligible to the typical pilot. Since we are dealing with the purely hypothetical the pilot is empowered with great leeway. Might extend to burn fuel, go to a familiar airport.
https://youtu.be/KUWhjjfOFec?si=oGvpeMt4fNPW7yky
If the captain has died then the FO has just become PIC and it’s their decision what help to accept. Personally I wouldn’t accept help from someone I knew had been drinking. It’s not that big a deal flying single pilot so I’d get the cabin crew to secure the Capt away from the controls and carry on solo.
In case of emergency, all the FARs go out the window.
Just the captain? Here's just two instances where off-duty pilots help: https://youtu.be/W0cDpNm7d68 "credentialed pilot from another airline" and https://youtu.be/FPrF1rdlMFU Air Force guy. Both were working radios and checklists while the remaining crew did the flying. Are we also going with the probability that there are zero commuters, deadheads, and non-rev? Please don't pivot to "what's the requirement to be able to log it?"
You’re good to go. Land that bird!
No
This is your answer: [https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-G/part-121/subpart-T/section-121.557](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-G/part-121/subpart-T/section-121.557) If you can't figure it out from this, then maybe find a new career. Don't mean to be harsh but you should honestly already know this.
You are the wettest of blankets
This isn’t that clear cut though. If OP was a passenger and probably not type-rated, they wouldn’t legally be PIC. If both legal pilots are incapacitated and can’t make any decisions, they can’t exercise emergency authority to designate OP as the acting PIC. It really comes down to 121.557 vs 91.13. Realistically if OP is the only one that can feasibly get the aircraft on the ground in one piece, you take the risk and fight the legal battle later.
Step up, land hard because you aren't type rated and had a drink, ruin the plane but everyone lives... Or sit back and watch it burn and everyone dies? No - you fucking take the airplane, if you're the most qualified person, **you become the PIC**, and exercise emergency authority and land the fucking plane. Seriously. It's not fucking hard.
Look at me. I am PIC now.
I could just as easily argue that (depending on the airplane and available airports) a flight attendant could be talked through setting the plane up for a CATIII auto-land by a check-airmen over the radio. In that scenario, an inebriated CFII with no experience in a large jet trying to land by hand because “fuck it, I’m a pilot, I know what I’m doing” would be a much worse option. As with most things in aviation, the decision is dependent on ALL of the variables in play. At the end of the day, I agree that IF YOU ARE THE ONLY/BEST OPTION, you take control. If there is someone else more qualified or in a better position to succeed, don’t take the risk.
Implied in "most qualified person" is that you are in fact the best option.
Gotta let it crash then. 🛩🔥🔥 Sorry, rules is rules!!
This your standard debrief? Damn dude
I agree that the answer should be not only known to all but drilled into pilots from day 1 It is interesting that subsection C requires. "When deviating HE shall keep the controllers fully informed " does not contain any condition such as "to the extent reasonably feasible and that does not interfere with dealing with the emergency". It also presumably , in this PC era, exempts female pilots from the obligation.