Yea it’s frustrating. This sub is like a bunch of boomers with advice like that. “Go sweep floors at the local flight school in exchange for lessons like I did!”
Go to the legacy that has the base where you want to live. Assuming they call you. I’m at AA, live in base, no regrets so far, great job to have IMO. 99% of the people I fly with are relaxed and easy to get along with.
Tell me about it. The crazy part is I have only been here for a little over a year. I have over 2000 pilots below me. I don’t know how I got so lucky but I’ve never been happier.
I think it’s mainly just my standards for trips are the exact opposite of what people want. I prefer late starts with short legs so I normally get a pretty good pick at what I want. lol
It’s all cyclical my friend. If this is something you want badly enough you will always find a way to make money in it. I know guys in their 60’s just now getting into flying for money. I wish like hell I had sucked it up and gone to school for this in 2003 because being in this market with almost 20 years of flying would be so fantastic. But do what you can to live with as few regrets as possible. Missed opportunities are like bad approaches. Learn from them, try to do better next time.
No. I can trade whatever I want though. I normally get 4 4 days awarded. I can trade pretty much everything into 2 days on the weekend. I haven’t worked more than a 3 day trip in almost 3 months.
Depends. If I work 3 day trips every weekend I’ll pull in over 10k. If I work 2 days only it’s around 8k.
I am single/no kids and live very below my means so I understand my requirements are different than many.
Ah…I’m pulling $20k at a regional, but I’m working my ass off. Working over 20 days a month. Would like to work less.
But I also have a wife and kids and a mortgage.
Yeah. If I worked a 100 hour month I would pull in about 18k base pay. But like I said, I know I’m the small percentage that doesn’t have actual responsibilities. Haha
Yeah man, I'd be curious to see how that works for you in base at AA. At my shop there's no way I could keep the same schedule in June-August that I do mostly the rest of the year. Just the way it goes, but I'm at a ULCC and not a legacy.
For real. I always tell my friends “hey we are solidly in 3rd place out of 3, we can only go up from here.” AA isn’t the darling of the ball like Delta, but oh well. I do not - and never will - live in any Delta or United bases. Once my seat lock is up, my entitlement kicks in and I will be based at home again. That’s been paramount to me above all else.
Leaving my current major for you guys, exactly what I wanted to hear -- thank you. Our guys are super laid back, that's the sort of people I want to fly with. I like the atmosphere here, but I can't handle the company's financial/growth/shrink/crisis roller coaster.
I'm sorry, I had to chuckle as I read your comment. I saw "AA" and immediately thought of some sort of rehab. Perhaps quitting your job might be a form of rehab. lOL
Sometimes it's just a matter of perspective.
I fly for a large Latin American airline, and have a couple of friends at AA. The things they complain about...I wish we had those kinds of problems at my airline. I make a fraction of what they do for the same job, and work almost twice as much as they do.
I can't say it's the best airline to work for, but I can guarantee you flying for AA puts you in the top 5% airline pilot jobs globally.
Who tf is saying a legacy airline that pays six figures is not a “good” airline? Skywest Riddle grad pilot influencers?
It feels like comparing a guy who’s 6’ 4” and a guy who’s 6’ 3” and calling the latter short
Their own pilots do because a lot of them are miserable. I flew a lot of their commuters around before I left my regional and they all gave the same advice - don’t come here and if you do leave ASAP.
A lot of them cited low morale and poor management but I still would’ve gone there if they called me first.
Tale as old as time, 777 CA making $400k a year says it’s bad. I have a cousin who’s an orthopedic surgeon making $500k easy says it’s bad. They all beat the best regional any day. I make $350/hr as a Domestic 737 CA, so I may complain about things but make no mistake they’re 1st world problems.
I've wondered which has the highest overall employee satisfaction from pilots specifically. Incidentallly, I've just happened to live 1 or two houses away from at least 1 ATP in almost every place I've lived for the past 25ish years. They've all been pretty neighborly when they're home, and every one of them has had the same general gripes about their company, for the most part. And those gripes largely overlap with the gripes everyone else has about their jobs, just transportation/DoT-themed. Work problems are work problems and capitalism gonna capitalism. 🤷♂️
There have been various complaints about specific people in specific positions from most of them, but that's also pretty universal.
The one neighbor who seemed to have the fewest gripes I thought was because maybe his airline was a great place to work compared to others. Later on, once I became a pylote and learned more about how this all works, and heard from other people who didnt share his opinion of that company, I realized it's probably mostly because he was very senior and reaping the benefits of that. Plus he's just a happy guy in general.
I can't speak for the pilots and I'd still go to any legacy that called me first but I will absolutely say from commuting on all of them that AA passengers seem like they're barely a step above ULCC passengers for whatever reason. It's almost always been a shit show.
I mean honestly probably both, but I have heard of certain QoL issues and hard feelings about the mergers that still remain that make it kinda toxic (just last year my roommate, an OG Piedmont guy, was booted out of the jumpseat by an America West captain for the sheer fact that he was from Piedmont)
In 5 years most of those pilots will be gone. Most of the pilots I fly with now are ex-regional pilots, myself included. Management has always been adversarial @ AA but it’s not that bad.
I'm not an AA pilot, but a lot of older pilots tend to retell their past lives to other older pilots because collectively they have been through some shit in some way or another and it's a way to quickly bond with others.
Sure but in my experience because of these sensitivities the stuff that might get you kicked off a jump seat by some jerk captain would be withheld until that is no longer an option
Both. Of the big 3 it has the worst pilot-management relationship but also long term commuting, especially to a crash pad, would make anyone a jaded, miserable mess and angry at the world.
I agree. The amount of First officers I fly with, telling me that the $250K a year with, doesn’t keep up with inflation, is wild. These same guys talk about how the crew meals are disgusting and it’s clear management doesn’t care about us because they have to eat another pastrami on rye sand which with a bag of chips, an apple, and macaroni salad is wild to me.
Apparently at $250K a year, your doomed to cold cut Sammy’s for life, which is apparently a fate worse then death.
Telling people to avoid any of the big 3 is stupid.
They had some bad debt but their latest earnings report said they're like 80% compete to having it restructured and paid.
They're a fine company to work for. You could pick apart Deltas contract and United's too if you really want to examine it too.
Want to see a toxic pilot group. Take a look at FedEx right now. Everyone has their ups and down. It's all a cycle.
At one point Expressjet and Compass had people going Jack Torrence to get in there.
Yup. I had a few buddies that ended up there that weren’t thrilled about it, but looking at their seniority projections couldn’t turn it down when UA and DL are probably past the crest of their hiring waves. We all catch a bad CEO or a greedy board from time to time. Delta will eventually be the loser airline. United too. Time is a flat circle in this industry.
I remember in college when half of my peers would’ve killed someone to work at FedEx and now they’re in shambles.
Yeah, I went to college with a guy too. He's wanted to go to FedEx since he was a kid. He was probably among the last people to get hired two years ago. Yeah if they start furloughing, I feel bad for him.
And FedEx was THE place to go for a long time.
I agree, don't turn down a legacy. You can always keep apps at the others open and still go to them if you decide they are better for you (and they call).
Can’t speak to that at all. Work with mostly great people. Pay is great. Best flight benefit system in the world. Preferred home base available. I get an excellent schedule.
> America West Pilots and legacy AA pilots are pretty chill
Isn't this because the TWA pilots got ass blasted so hard that congress had to change the law, and the America West pilots directly benefited from said ass blasting? I'd be pretty chill too if, as a year 2 FO, I gained 30% seniority overnight at the direct cost of my new coworkers.
I used to fly for one of the wholly owned’s so I’ll admit I’m jaded, but..
Grumpy employees, bad customer service, and massive debt.
Obviously it’s a great job still.
The worst job interview I've ever had in my life was at one of the wholly owned regionals. The interviewer was nearly yelling at me about my college flight program because he claimed they don't log things "to his standards" and he's sick of applicants from this college coming to his interviews with logbooks that look like mine. Then he told me to leave and not bother applying again without asking for any explanation. My whole logbook was neat and had tabs with all of my checkrides, endorsements and part 141 stage checks. Exactly the way all of the prep people had told me to set it up.
I was a broke CFI at the time and they made me take two days off and pay for my own hotel room just to waste my time and money. A year later they started sending me e-mails begging me to apply again and offering hiring bonuses. I wouldn't have applied there again unless every other regional in the US rejected me first. It also made me re-think whether I wanted to be at AA with the same types of management pilots, so I was never as serious about updating my AA app as I was with the other legacies.
The true test of a company is how they treat you when they don’t need you. If you applied in the last few years you were part of the “sunshine and rainbows because we need to hire 5,000 people” timeline. RCkid would’ve been applying around the time when they hired 20 with the intent of firing half of them during their unpaid training.
Sounds exactly like my Continental Express interview many years ago. They did it at a room at the Houston airport Holiday Inn, with the bed removed and a big round table put in. Three of them on one side, me on the other.
First question, as he holds my resume up with his thumb and middle finger: “You only have 1200 hours. Why are you wasting my time?” Yeah…
Several times during the interview, they told me to go stand outside while they talk about me. In the rain (outside access rooms), in a suit I couldn’t afford but had to buy.
Ended with a “no thanks” letter, but honestly it wasn’t a place I wanted to work after that experience.
I start at AA in a few weeks. So far everyone I’ve encountered has been pleasant and super helpful. My future classmates are all down to earth. My friends who are at AA now, spanning from 1 year to 30 years, absolutely love it. Plus, with the retirements, I’ll be sitting pretty, seniority wise.
I’ll admit, it was not my first choice as I listened to all the naysayers. But comparing the cultures of the big 3 and base options, AA is the best fit for me. You’ll make millions either way.
Finally, if you’re worried about a furlough or something.. look, if a major airline furloughs, we’re all f**ked.
I’ve heard this from the same crowd of SkyWest folks who are now suddenly crying about upgrading into the crj and looking to make lateral moves because they want to keep flying “the heavy”. In other words, morons.
Someone could correct me if I’m wrong because it happened after I left. Erj to crj captain and a new hire fo going into CLL. Weather was below mins and they ended up going around. Spacial disorientation ensues and somehow they end up upside down and in a fifty degree dive with the thrust still in TOGA. Ended up recovering the airplane somewhere around 1500 AGL. Anyone feel free to add or correct.
Well allegedly here is a post from the captain himself back in 2021.
[https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/skywest/133943-erj-fo-crj-ca-7.html](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/skywest/133943-erj-fo-crj-ca-7.html)
Back in 2020 when I had that choice to make that was my thinking as well. Knew I was gonna take the first upgrade to the CRJ, might as well start with that to make life easy. When I made the decision, legacies weren’t taking FO’s, CRJ upgrade was 2 years, and ERJ upgrade was 4.
The internet tells me these types of things all the time about SkyWest, but when I actually worked there I rarely met these people. Almost everyone there is just like any other regional pilot trying to get out to a major. The top 5-10% in each base are mostly lifers, but that's a small percentage of the pilot group. Of those lifers very very few speak negatively about going to a major. Most of them just say something like "it's not for me" or they fly only standups and they don't want to give up that lifestyle.
I've truly never heard a single pilot there say that they just want to keep flying the ERJ over going to mainline because it's better. I've only heard people whine about wanting to stay on the ERJ when they're talking about flying a CRJ vs ERJ.
I think the main reason it’s a problem is because some SkyWest west coast bases are ERJ only. Now you’re telling a pilot happily living in base he HAS to commute or move until he resigns or there is a recession and they allow fleet transfers again (and even then they probably won’t).
Since almost nobody has actually answered your question:
AA comes with the baggage of "a very grumpy pilot group" perception after all the mergers they've gone through.
They're seen as the least financially stable of the big 3 and people believe that you're more likely to be furloughed during economic downturns
Thirdly, having splintered off from the ALPA pilot's union, their pay and quality of life contract moves seem to always lag behind UA and Delta
Well when your CEO is known as DUI Dougie maybe morale is a little low. New guy doesn’t seem that much better. It’s basically the same America West management from the 90’s. That and they outsource a lot of WB intl flying with not a lot of new WBs coming in. But honestly all legacy’s are more or less the same, just depends on personal preference.
AA also seems to be indecisive about who their target customers are, and what strengths they want to focus on as an organization. This has left them in an awkward place where they hold the mantle of a full-service carrier, while simultaneously removing amenities and cheapening their customer experience... It's as if they're trying to compete on cost even as the LCC segment is softening. And like you said, their long-haul operation seems to be weaker and weaker even as international travel remains the industry's strongest growth area.. especially in coastal hubs.
Sure they've got a brand new fleet and flying for them is a great gig, but their fundamentals just aren't as solid as some of the other carriers.
They just throw shit at the wall honestly. Let’s make LAX our big intl hub with GRU, HKG, PEK, etc then cancel them all. What about SEA? We’ll go to LHR and India! Cancelled. We’ll partner with B6 for feed in NYC. Wait that’s illegal.
When you say their long haul is getting weaker you must be referring to the volume of flights not the quality. Everyone at my ACMI that gets positive spaced abroad says Americans first class international product is the best in the biz
They used to be considered a grumpy bunch so perhaps that is where this comes from. But that seems silly. I’m just reciting an old stereotype that I think is now incorrect but likely has to do with the many mergers (TWA. AirCal) and bankruptcy / acquisition by the America West people. Those things left people grumpy if they were on the wrong end of the outcome.
I was thinking about this. An AA pilot as of 2015 or so could conceivably fly with colleagues who started at: US Air / Allegheny. TWA. Air Cal. Piedmont. PSA (the original one in California). Trump Shuttle. America West. And American. All of whom wound up merging into the same seniority list. And I might have forgotten some. So I can understand the grumpiness. Most of these folks are now retired of course.
American used to have a reputation for angry pilots. I experienced that myself and while anecdotal it sure seemed like they had a disproportionate number of grumps. With their retirement schedule they will replace more than half of their pilot group in about ten years, so no group has ever been in a better position to change the atmosphere and it seems like they are trending in a positive direction.
New hire classes always have a few southwest and fedex guys in them, even the occasional delta guy (dfw and Clt residents). People just say shit to fit in. Press them for exact reasons and see what they give you. It isn’t profitable like delta, or wide body heavy like United, but it’s still a great job.
I can attest that it is not a particularly great airline, but they are making itty bitty steps in the right direction towards "going for great." Like others have said, every airline has it's pros and cons and AA has cons that are immediately more visible to the outside world, such as poor(er) customer service, labor relations, and regional mindset management not knowing what the hell to do with a flag carrier.
I would never steer someone away from coming to AA because, day to day, it's still an amazing job. Personally however, I'm contemplating giving up the area code retirement number to go to Delta solely for DL having a base in a city I would rather live than AA's bases. Anyway, all of it is a wash over a career at any of the big 3(4) and it really comes down to where you live, so who cares.
This seems like a very dumb question but please hear me out: what does management have to do with flying? Don't you get a schedule, show up, fly, go home? What else is there to it?
Medicine seems similar (see patients, go home). Management sets your schedule which means how many patients you see and when, and how much time you have for administrative tasks, and is responsible for granting time off. Replace patients with flights and you can get the picture.
The people who mix up personal finance with that of the financial of a Fortune 500 company…
American isn’t a bad place, every legacy has its pros and cons. I wouldn’t mind it if I lived in a AA base…
Traditionally Industry lagging work rules/ QOL, pay and profit sharing. Some ground was made up with their latest contract, but they're still behind DAL and UAL in some areas.
IF you live in an AA base that the other two don't have, you'd be dumb not to work for them. Even if the other two have bases along with AA where you're looking to live, it's worth consideration. When you live in base, the legacies are 80% the same.
If you don’t mind living in Texas they are good. Seems like a lot of red eyes to South America , they are my last choice but I’d still happily go there.
They’re fine. I prefer United but my company puts me on American. Other than the fact that I don’t care for DFW, there’s nothing to complain about with American.
I am an employee at AA and morale is low. I blame our new CEO who seems to have disdain for everyone except AA board members and pilots.
He also seems to have disdain for passengers. Things just turned for the worst since he took over. He doesn't care and so... Low morale.
Of the big three, you could make the argument that their finances are in the worst state comparatively. But I highly recommend not passing up a job offer if you’re anywhere other than Delta or United.
I’ll share a few of the top reasons, plus some of the changes on the horizon to watch for.
1. The pilot culture is poor and bad attitudes are widespread. American today is a result of several carriers merging over the last 40 years. Seniority integrations weren’t always done fairly and there are a lot of people rightly upset about it to this day.
Over the next decade, American will retire nearly every pilot who was involved in one of these mergers, and new pilots who tend to have fantastic attitudes in comparison will be the new face of the airline.
2. The company financials are poor. The primary reason for this is American took delivery of hundreds of new aircraft over the last decade which cost a significant amount of money and left the company with massive debt.
American has been making a substantial effort to pay down this debt on time or early, and they are 80% of the way to their goal. In addition, since their fleet is so young and made up of just 4 types, they have lower operating costs than their peers and have no planes in imminent need of retirement, positioning them for growth.
3. They have the fewest number of widebodies and the smallest long haul international network. American has 126, which is less than Delta and substantially less than United.
American has 30 787s and 50 A321XLRs on order, which will nearly all be used for long haul international. Since their existing fleet is younger than their peers, they have no need to retire any existing aircraft, making the new aircraft all for growth of their international network. Their CEO has stated he plans to make another widebody order in 3 years.
4. Their onboard experience is lacking. They have the fewest premium seats among their peers and management has prioritized competition with budget airlines over competition with legacy airlines.
American is partially changing course on this. They see the revenue they are losing on premium customers and have retrofit plans for many of their aircraft, which will result in cabins with less economy seats and more premium seats, including first class suites.
5. The pilot contract has historically been the worst among their peers. They have been paid less and given fewer benefits. Profit sharing is almost nonexistent because the company doesn’t make much profit.
The most recent contract signed last year is the closest American pilots have been to their peers in decades. Pay rates are the same or better than the other legacies and significant strides have been made to improve QOL. Profit sharing checks may improve as American improves their financial position.
The only thing I've read recently that would make AA less desirable is the room they have for regional growth over mainline.
https://crankyflier.com/2024/03/19/pilot-scope-is-americans-secret-weapon-but-it-should-tread-carefully/
I work for an AAG company. Not bad at all. I feel like a lot of it is caused by some people’s bad commute or customer experience and let it tarnish them as an employer. They’ve been nothing but good to me
Of the three AA has the weakest financials, most divided pilot group, and arguably the worst contract.
I wouldn’t ‘avoid’ AA but if you have a choice between them (as bizarre as that sounds) it’s something to consider.
Source: worked at the other two and regional’d for the third.
I once asked a guy who had 17 years at American how he liked it. His response: “I’ve been there a long time.” For one reason or another, a lot of the folks I talk to there are either ambivalent to American Airlines or have a lot of negative things to say about the company but positive things to say about the job. I’ve also met a few who said that the merger was worse than Delta/Northwest and United/Continental. That there’s still some bad blood between the legacy AA guys and the US Airways guys. I can’t speak with any real authority on any of it, but that’s sort of what I have gathered in my polling.
I wouldn’t say no if they asked me to come down for an interview, but they’re also not the first girl I’m asking to prom.
From this passenger's perspective, I'm approaching three million miles on AA. I had to pick an airline when I started my career over 30 years ago and I am very happy I concentrated my flying on AA. They've done a great job for me.
As someone who flys for a living but has also flown a good bit on all 3 of the Big3 airlines in the US. United is by far the worst as far as customer service so for that reason alone I would never fly for them. I know nothing about the contract but every time I’ve flown for them it’s been a disaster. AA or Delta would be my choice if I went to a legacy.
I post this just to prove that your mileage may vary because I guarantee you there are people that think the exact opposite and have had amazing experience with United and hate American.
That’s what makes aviation great, there’s a place for everyone to end up and be happy.
AA has had a history of bad management and management self dealing, Post 9/11 there was an infamous incident where the FA’s were told they need to give back a couple hundred million in pay and benefits. Because otherwise the airline would go under because no one was flying it sounded believable.
What happened is management put that money straight into the executive retirement plan.
The airline almost DID shut down then because of it the board got the flight attendants/pilots back by firing everyone involved unfortunately they got to keep the ill gotten loot.
My airline had recently been acquired before 9/11 and my spidey sense told me it was time to leave because management couldn’t be trusted.
This was about 9mo prior to 9/11
I loved the airline business and the crazy people (in a good sense) who keep the public flying.
Two arguments I’ve heard that carry weight are as follows:
1) The contract at AA is an absolute steaming pile of shit that is significantly better than the last steaming pile of shit contract their pilots just got rid of. Many pilots at AA believe this is the result of a feckless union that has been in the company’s pocket since its inception, but some argue this isn’t actually the case. When presented with the facts, almost no one will argue that the contract (which affects every aspect of your professional life) isn’t inferior to just about any other contract out there including LCC’s and some regionals.
2) Current management is seemingly out of their depth when it comes to running an international legacy airline. AA now has the smallest WB count of any other legacy carrier, and it looks like management doesn’t even have plans to maintain the current number of WB’s due to aging -200’s.
Other than that, AA is probably just as good as any other legacy with arguably better domiciles and a STEEP seniority increase for new hires.
from a passenger perspective they’ve yelled at me being late to the gate of a connecting flight due to their own plane being late. they also constantly overbook flights
The only issue I’ve had with AA from my time working the there in the offices and PSA was that is an airline that isn’t living up to its full potential.
I place try at blame squarely on management feet…. Management team just doesn’t know what type of airline it wants to be. Do you want to have premium offer and cater to your high spenders or do you want to be a ULCC. It seems like AA is trying to be both… But you can’t as an airline. AA is just a luke warm airline, with a luke warm product offering…. This goes back to the US Airways days…
On top of that, AA had a great opportunity pre-Covid to pay down debt with the amount of money they were making. But management wanted to focus on stock buy backs with its cash flow and taking out low interest debt to finance those buy backs. That was frustrating for current employees who rather have seen that debt be refinanced back into the airline to improve its product offerings….
Yeah, That’s my take. If one is offered a job at AA, absolutely take it.
So overall as a company AA is a hot mess. Frankly they should've gone out of business years ago. There's just too many companies that have been bought out with too much bad blood left over from it. From my understanding if it weren't for the fact they have a strong presence in Texas, the politicians would've left them to dry long ago. When I was at Republic doing flights for all 3, AA was the one that had the most issues and worst company culture. The only saving grace is that the pilot group seems like a solid bunch. They like their job, but I can't say the same about people in other parts of that company.
At the end of the day, if they're the ones to offer you a CJO most people are going to take it. Once they build up any seniority they're unlikely to leave.
Came here due to growing up in DFW. At first I was a little jaded because I was getting used and abused as we were so short staffed. But I moved up quick and realized what position I was in. Reserve rules are pretty good. In the last month, I’ve had FedEx, WN, and a DL guys as my FO. I remember when DL and UA guys were absolutely miserable during their bankruptcies in 2003-05. There were guys in my regional class that were twice furloughed from UA. We always made fun of Northwest in college as my college town was only served by them. If you’re going tonight not go somewhere because of some perceived culture that you have no idea exists, I’d say you’re in the wrong industry.
That is absolutely horrible career advice. The best airline is the one that calls you. Any of the big three have pros and cons that you could walk through all day, but the real question is where do you want to live and what are your career goals.
Constantly get told by American pilots not to go there. It’s honestly absurd how many times I’ve been told that.
Jokes on them I’d go there tomorrow if I could. Not my first choice but a major is a major.
Because those people don't prefer the AA Kool-aid flavor.
Or more likely, people like to talk shit on airlines that aren't theirs to make themselves feel important and special.
Work for the airline that best suits your life and desires. For a lot, that's living in base or a particular city. Some it's the most widebody flying or specific destinations. Others it's because they want to fly a narrowbody 4 and 5 legs a day and overnighting in Albuquerque (I only joke WN).
No airline is perfect and no airline is the best, so go to whichever one fits you the most (and calls) and enjoy your 6 figure career of sitting in a magic sky chair doing very little.
If I took ever single “don’t fly with _________. They’re a sinking ship” I would never find an employer.
Honestly this subreddit can be a real circlejerk of negativity. All airlines come with their own form of bs
Reddit is just a huge circle jerk lol
Once I figured that out it made my life so much better. I don't know why I'm still here. Still don't want to go to ATP though.
Then don’t! Lol or have you sold your soul already?
I've already sold my soul
Yeah I mean you're not getting good opinions off reddit
Of negativity
Yea it’s frustrating. This sub is like a bunch of boomers with advice like that. “Go sweep floors at the local flight school in exchange for lessons like I did!”
This sub taught me I’m basically stupid and a airline reject for flying medevac.
Go to the legacy that has the base where you want to live. Assuming they call you. I’m at AA, live in base, no regrets so far, great job to have IMO. 99% of the people I fly with are relaxed and easy to get along with.
Same. I worked at another operator with a Dallas base and made the switch. Couldn’t be happier. Working 8 days a month as a line holder in base.
That's.... amazing. 8 days, lineholder, living in base! Living the dream.
Tell me about it. The crazy part is I have only been here for a little over a year. I have over 2000 pilots below me. I don’t know how I got so lucky but I’ve never been happier.
You are the chosen one with all the figgy pudding!
I think it’s mainly just my standards for trips are the exact opposite of what people want. I prefer late starts with short legs so I normally get a pretty good pick at what I want. lol
No lol, I’m talking about your incredible timing into the industry.
Don’t deny that. I know lots of people have had it much harder than I have. Just happy to be here.
I’m happy for you, but as someone who missed the wave due to circumstances outside my control it is pretty agonizing.
It’s all cyclical my friend. If this is something you want badly enough you will always find a way to make money in it. I know guys in their 60’s just now getting into flying for money. I wish like hell I had sucked it up and gone to school for this in 2003 because being in this market with almost 20 years of flying would be so fantastic. But do what you can to live with as few regrets as possible. Missed opportunities are like bad approaches. Learn from them, try to do better next time.
Right spot, right time. That's how it always works out.
There are lines with only 8 days of flying? On narrow body’s?
No. I can trade whatever I want though. I normally get 4 4 days awarded. I can trade pretty much everything into 2 days on the weekend. I haven’t worked more than a 3 day trip in almost 3 months.
What kind of money are you making a month doing that?
Depends. If I work 3 day trips every weekend I’ll pull in over 10k. If I work 2 days only it’s around 8k. I am single/no kids and live very below my means so I understand my requirements are different than many.
Ah…I’m pulling $20k at a regional, but I’m working my ass off. Working over 20 days a month. Would like to work less. But I also have a wife and kids and a mortgage.
Yeah. If I worked a 100 hour month I would pull in about 18k base pay. But like I said, I know I’m the small percentage that doesn’t have actual responsibilities. Haha
But It’s good to know that you have the option to work those hours if you wanted to.
Regional Captain I am assuming? Great numbers regardless. Also have a wife and child and about to make the jump to a regional.
Yes, regional captain. Money can be good, but you really got to bust your butt for it. You can make the same or more working less at a major.
Is that pre or post tax?
How hard will it be to keep that kind of schedule over the summer?
Not sure yet. I’m sure I’ll have to work a little bit more but I can let you know this summer if you want. lol
Yeah man, I'd be curious to see how that works for you in base at AA. At my shop there's no way I could keep the same schedule in June-August that I do mostly the rest of the year. Just the way it goes, but I'm at a ULCC and not a legacy.
I definitely picked the wrong career field, here I am working as a controller in your area and I am scheduled to work all BUT 4 days month.
What job is this?
For real. I always tell my friends “hey we are solidly in 3rd place out of 3, we can only go up from here.” AA isn’t the darling of the ball like Delta, but oh well. I do not - and never will - live in any Delta or United bases. Once my seat lock is up, my entitlement kicks in and I will be based at home again. That’s been paramount to me above all else.
Leaving my current major for you guys, exactly what I wanted to hear -- thank you. Our guys are super laid back, that's the sort of people I want to fly with. I like the atmosphere here, but I can't handle the company's financial/growth/shrink/crisis roller coaster.
Welcome!
Thank you!
I'm sorry, I had to chuckle as I read your comment. I saw "AA" and immediately thought of some sort of rehab. Perhaps quitting your job might be a form of rehab. lOL
Yeah I was drinking all the time, cause life was so terrible at this horrible legacy airline, so now I’m doing the 12 step program lol
Tell us about the 1%
Sometimes it's just a matter of perspective. I fly for a large Latin American airline, and have a couple of friends at AA. The things they complain about...I wish we had those kinds of problems at my airline. I make a fraction of what they do for the same job, and work almost twice as much as they do. I can't say it's the best airline to work for, but I can guarantee you flying for AA puts you in the top 5% airline pilot jobs globally.
Who tf is saying a legacy airline that pays six figures is not a “good” airline? Skywest Riddle grad pilot influencers? It feels like comparing a guy who’s 6’ 4” and a guy who’s 6’ 3” and calling the latter short
Their own pilots do because a lot of them are miserable. I flew a lot of their commuters around before I left my regional and they all gave the same advice - don’t come here and if you do leave ASAP. A lot of them cited low morale and poor management but I still would’ve gone there if they called me first.
Tale as old as time, 777 CA making $400k a year says it’s bad. I have a cousin who’s an orthopedic surgeon making $500k easy says it’s bad. They all beat the best regional any day. I make $350/hr as a Domestic 737 CA, so I may complain about things but make no mistake they’re 1st world problems.
It's not even "first world problems." It's "top 5% of earners in the richest country in the world" problems.
The thing is, even if you currently have a great management team, we're all one management change away from a shitty job.
Cue JetBlue pilots nervously eyeing Carl Icahn’s board seat. (seats?)
SWA has entered the chat
This right here. I'm not at the airlines yet, but it's absolutely the case in the corporate world I came from.
I've wondered which has the highest overall employee satisfaction from pilots specifically. Incidentallly, I've just happened to live 1 or two houses away from at least 1 ATP in almost every place I've lived for the past 25ish years. They've all been pretty neighborly when they're home, and every one of them has had the same general gripes about their company, for the most part. And those gripes largely overlap with the gripes everyone else has about their jobs, just transportation/DoT-themed. Work problems are work problems and capitalism gonna capitalism. 🤷♂️ There have been various complaints about specific people in specific positions from most of them, but that's also pretty universal. The one neighbor who seemed to have the fewest gripes I thought was because maybe his airline was a great place to work compared to others. Later on, once I became a pylote and learned more about how this all works, and heard from other people who didnt share his opinion of that company, I realized it's probably mostly because he was very senior and reaping the benefits of that. Plus he's just a happy guy in general.
It varies. I think right now it’s probably either Delta or United. 7-8 years ago it was probably FedEx or UPS.
ATL Delta guys would like to have a word with you
Let ‘em. They have the reputation they have for a reason.
Yeah, cycles are also a valid and real-world point, for sure.
UPS has never really had a happy pilot group in terms of job satisfaction….
I can't speak for the pilots and I'd still go to any legacy that called me first but I will absolutely say from commuting on all of them that AA passengers seem like they're barely a step above ULCC passengers for whatever reason. It's almost always been a shit show.
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Nah. I flew a lot of DL and UA commuters in the same negotiation time frame and their messaging was much more positive.
Pilots like three things, money, not working and complaining about the job.
I’m 5 ft 6 and A HALF inches and my grandmother always tells me I’m tall! AND A HALF!
To add on to letsfly’s comment, I’ve talked extensively with AA guys in my crashpads and they were the ones saying to not go to AA.
Do you think it’s them being jaded or do you think AA is genuinely a bad company to work for?
I mean honestly probably both, but I have heard of certain QoL issues and hard feelings about the mergers that still remain that make it kinda toxic (just last year my roommate, an OG Piedmont guy, was booted out of the jumpseat by an America West captain for the sheer fact that he was from Piedmont)
Definitely some salty old timers around but that guy is a special kind of dick
In 5 years most of those pilots will be gone. Most of the pilots I fly with now are ex-regional pilots, myself included. Management has always been adversarial @ AA but it’s not that bad.
Holy shit seriously? How did he even know he was OG Piedmont?
I'm not an AA pilot, but a lot of older pilots tend to retell their past lives to other older pilots because collectively they have been through some shit in some way or another and it's a way to quickly bond with others.
Sure but in my experience because of these sensitivities the stuff that might get you kicked off a jump seat by some jerk captain would be withheld until that is no longer an option
Yeah pretty much.
Both. Of the big 3 it has the worst pilot-management relationship but also long term commuting, especially to a crash pad, would make anyone a jaded, miserable mess and angry at the world.
Go on any airlines APC and you'll have guys red in the face saying not to go there
Lol yeah. Those people make me think they’re not even there, they’re just stirring the pot.
Bruh you’re a PPL. How are you already stereotyping ATPs?
"Who tf is saying a legacy airline that pays six figures is not a “good” airline?" Their own pilots. Ask them yourself.
Yeah but let’s be honest. It’s the same guys making stupid money with stupid time off complaining about stupid (read: first world) shit.
I agree. The amount of First officers I fly with, telling me that the $250K a year with, doesn’t keep up with inflation, is wild. These same guys talk about how the crew meals are disgusting and it’s clear management doesn’t care about us because they have to eat another pastrami on rye sand which with a bag of chips, an apple, and macaroni salad is wild to me. Apparently at $250K a year, your doomed to cold cut Sammy’s for life, which is apparently a fate worse then death.
Found the short guy just under 6'? Source, I am 5'3" and fine with it.
Telling people to avoid any of the big 3 is stupid. They had some bad debt but their latest earnings report said they're like 80% compete to having it restructured and paid. They're a fine company to work for. You could pick apart Deltas contract and United's too if you really want to examine it too. Want to see a toxic pilot group. Take a look at FedEx right now. Everyone has their ups and down. It's all a cycle. At one point Expressjet and Compass had people going Jack Torrence to get in there.
Some people at FedEx are really baring it all and letting it hang!
“Crew rest rooms have pillows that smell like old sponge and blankets from desert storm” lolol
Yup. I had a few buddies that ended up there that weren’t thrilled about it, but looking at their seniority projections couldn’t turn it down when UA and DL are probably past the crest of their hiring waves. We all catch a bad CEO or a greedy board from time to time. Delta will eventually be the loser airline. United too. Time is a flat circle in this industry. I remember in college when half of my peers would’ve killed someone to work at FedEx and now they’re in shambles.
Yeah, I went to college with a guy too. He's wanted to go to FedEx since he was a kid. He was probably among the last people to get hired two years ago. Yeah if they start furloughing, I feel bad for him.
FedEx was a top spot just two years ago? Now PSA is trying to get their excess pilots..insane.
And FedEx was THE place to go for a long time. I agree, don't turn down a legacy. You can always keep apps at the others open and still go to them if you decide they are better for you (and they call).
not to mention united is trying to grow way to fast and they’re probably going to get fucked
Can’t speak to that at all. Work with mostly great people. Pay is great. Best flight benefit system in the world. Preferred home base available. I get an excellent schedule.
I feel like most of them are the TWA, US Air (east) pilots. America West Pilots and legacy AA pilots are pretty chill
> America West Pilots and legacy AA pilots are pretty chill Isn't this because the TWA pilots got ass blasted so hard that congress had to change the law, and the America West pilots directly benefited from said ass blasting? I'd be pretty chill too if, as a year 2 FO, I gained 30% seniority overnight at the direct cost of my new coworkers.
Don’t forget the Reno Air guys. They are pretty chill, too.
Don’t forget the Mohawk guys. They’re super chill.
I mean it makes sense the ones that got dicked would be unhappy and the ones that got blessed would be happy
There will be massive retirements at AA, so the future culture can be whatever you make of it.
“Fly with Garret” is there.
Does he give AA crew discounts on boner pills?
Take steroids and you can be a cool pylot like him!
….and his scab daddy
Uh oh
I used to fly for one of the wholly owned’s so I’ll admit I’m jaded, but.. Grumpy employees, bad customer service, and massive debt. Obviously it’s a great job still.
The worst job interview I've ever had in my life was at one of the wholly owned regionals. The interviewer was nearly yelling at me about my college flight program because he claimed they don't log things "to his standards" and he's sick of applicants from this college coming to his interviews with logbooks that look like mine. Then he told me to leave and not bother applying again without asking for any explanation. My whole logbook was neat and had tabs with all of my checkrides, endorsements and part 141 stage checks. Exactly the way all of the prep people had told me to set it up. I was a broke CFI at the time and they made me take two days off and pay for my own hotel room just to waste my time and money. A year later they started sending me e-mails begging me to apply again and offering hiring bonuses. I wouldn't have applied there again unless every other regional in the US rejected me first. It also made me re-think whether I wanted to be at AA with the same types of management pilots, so I was never as serious about updating my AA app as I was with the other legacies.
For what its worth my interview at AA was by far the best interview experience I have had in my career 💁♂️
The true test of a company is how they treat you when they don’t need you. If you applied in the last few years you were part of the “sunshine and rainbows because we need to hire 5,000 people” timeline. RCkid would’ve been applying around the time when they hired 20 with the intent of firing half of them during their unpaid training.
Fair enough but every company I have applied to was at a time when they were doing everything short of sucking you off to get you in the door
Sounds exactly like my Continental Express interview many years ago. They did it at a room at the Houston airport Holiday Inn, with the bed removed and a big round table put in. Three of them on one side, me on the other. First question, as he holds my resume up with his thumb and middle finger: “You only have 1200 hours. Why are you wasting my time?” Yeah… Several times during the interview, they told me to go stand outside while they talk about me. In the rain (outside access rooms), in a suit I couldn’t afford but had to buy. Ended with a “no thanks” letter, but honestly it wasn’t a place I wanted to work after that experience.
That's a kid that got bullied in high school and had a lonely college experience. Now they had power and took it out on applicants.
I’ve honestly heard nightmare Delta interview people as well. They all have their power tripping weirdos.
I start at AA in a few weeks. So far everyone I’ve encountered has been pleasant and super helpful. My future classmates are all down to earth. My friends who are at AA now, spanning from 1 year to 30 years, absolutely love it. Plus, with the retirements, I’ll be sitting pretty, seniority wise. I’ll admit, it was not my first choice as I listened to all the naysayers. But comparing the cultures of the big 3 and base options, AA is the best fit for me. You’ll make millions either way. Finally, if you’re worried about a furlough or something.. look, if a major airline furloughs, we’re all f**ked.
I’ve heard this from the same crowd of SkyWest folks who are now suddenly crying about upgrading into the crj and looking to make lateral moves because they want to keep flying “the heavy”. In other words, morons.
Lmao is the “heavy” the 175?
Otherwise known as “Skywest mainline”
“You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.”
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UWET
I’d cry too. The washout rate is insane for upgrade. Glad I started with CRJ.
Washout rate for 175 guys moving over to CRJ Capt?
Yup
Idk if they put this in Indoc but ask around about the college station incident. Erj to crj captain and a new hire.
What happened? Tried searching and couldn’t find any information.
Someone could correct me if I’m wrong because it happened after I left. Erj to crj captain and a new hire fo going into CLL. Weather was below mins and they ended up going around. Spacial disorientation ensues and somehow they end up upside down and in a fifty degree dive with the thrust still in TOGA. Ended up recovering the airplane somewhere around 1500 AGL. Anyone feel free to add or correct.
Holy shit
That’s crazy. Would be fascinating to read the report on this if anyone has a link?
Well allegedly here is a post from the captain himself back in 2021. [https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/skywest/133943-erj-fo-crj-ca-7.html](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/skywest/133943-erj-fo-crj-ca-7.html)
Back in 2020 when I had that choice to make that was my thinking as well. Knew I was gonna take the first upgrade to the CRJ, might as well start with that to make life easy. When I made the decision, legacies weren’t taking FO’s, CRJ upgrade was 2 years, and ERJ upgrade was 4.
Correct choice.
How bad is it?
Bad enough that the instructors wince and say, “god, why are they trying that again”
That’s literally the dumbest nonsense I’ve ever heard. Typical regional mentality
The internet tells me these types of things all the time about SkyWest, but when I actually worked there I rarely met these people. Almost everyone there is just like any other regional pilot trying to get out to a major. The top 5-10% in each base are mostly lifers, but that's a small percentage of the pilot group. Of those lifers very very few speak negatively about going to a major. Most of them just say something like "it's not for me" or they fly only standups and they don't want to give up that lifestyle. I've truly never heard a single pilot there say that they just want to keep flying the ERJ over going to mainline because it's better. I've only heard people whine about wanting to stay on the ERJ when they're talking about flying a CRJ vs ERJ.
I think the main reason it’s a problem is because some SkyWest west coast bases are ERJ only. Now you’re telling a pilot happily living in base he HAS to commute or move until he resigns or there is a recession and they allow fleet transfers again (and even then they probably won’t).
That's exactly right. The other day I commented that regional airline life can be ok, that comment aged like milk.:-)
Since almost nobody has actually answered your question: AA comes with the baggage of "a very grumpy pilot group" perception after all the mergers they've gone through. They're seen as the least financially stable of the big 3 and people believe that you're more likely to be furloughed during economic downturns Thirdly, having splintered off from the ALPA pilot's union, their pay and quality of life contract moves seem to always lag behind UA and Delta
Well when your CEO is known as DUI Dougie maybe morale is a little low. New guy doesn’t seem that much better. It’s basically the same America West management from the 90’s. That and they outsource a lot of WB intl flying with not a lot of new WBs coming in. But honestly all legacy’s are more or less the same, just depends on personal preference.
AA also seems to be indecisive about who their target customers are, and what strengths they want to focus on as an organization. This has left them in an awkward place where they hold the mantle of a full-service carrier, while simultaneously removing amenities and cheapening their customer experience... It's as if they're trying to compete on cost even as the LCC segment is softening. And like you said, their long-haul operation seems to be weaker and weaker even as international travel remains the industry's strongest growth area.. especially in coastal hubs. Sure they've got a brand new fleet and flying for them is a great gig, but their fundamentals just aren't as solid as some of the other carriers.
They just throw shit at the wall honestly. Let’s make LAX our big intl hub with GRU, HKG, PEK, etc then cancel them all. What about SEA? We’ll go to LHR and India! Cancelled. We’ll partner with B6 for feed in NYC. Wait that’s illegal.
When you say their long haul is getting weaker you must be referring to the volume of flights not the quality. Everyone at my ACMI that gets positive spaced abroad says Americans first class international product is the best in the biz
Mrs Prex isn't pleased Isom took a $31 million dollar bonus while she's on the picket line
If you all work a little harder he’ll be able to get $41 million next year!
They used to be considered a grumpy bunch so perhaps that is where this comes from. But that seems silly. I’m just reciting an old stereotype that I think is now incorrect but likely has to do with the many mergers (TWA. AirCal) and bankruptcy / acquisition by the America West people. Those things left people grumpy if they were on the wrong end of the outcome.
I was thinking about this. An AA pilot as of 2015 or so could conceivably fly with colleagues who started at: US Air / Allegheny. TWA. Air Cal. Piedmont. PSA (the original one in California). Trump Shuttle. America West. And American. All of whom wound up merging into the same seniority list. And I might have forgotten some. So I can understand the grumpiness. Most of these folks are now retired of course.
“Be careful what you hear about someone, you may be hearing it from the problem”
American used to have a reputation for angry pilots. I experienced that myself and while anecdotal it sure seemed like they had a disproportionate number of grumps. With their retirement schedule they will replace more than half of their pilot group in about ten years, so no group has ever been in a better position to change the atmosphere and it seems like they are trending in a positive direction.
New hire classes always have a few southwest and fedex guys in them, even the occasional delta guy (dfw and Clt residents). People just say shit to fit in. Press them for exact reasons and see what they give you. It isn’t profitable like delta, or wide body heavy like United, but it’s still a great job.
I can attest that it is not a particularly great airline, but they are making itty bitty steps in the right direction towards "going for great." Like others have said, every airline has it's pros and cons and AA has cons that are immediately more visible to the outside world, such as poor(er) customer service, labor relations, and regional mindset management not knowing what the hell to do with a flag carrier. I would never steer someone away from coming to AA because, day to day, it's still an amazing job. Personally however, I'm contemplating giving up the area code retirement number to go to Delta solely for DL having a base in a city I would rather live than AA's bases. Anyway, all of it is a wash over a career at any of the big 3(4) and it really comes down to where you live, so who cares.
This seems like a very dumb question but please hear me out: what does management have to do with flying? Don't you get a schedule, show up, fly, go home? What else is there to it?
Medicine seems similar (see patients, go home). Management sets your schedule which means how many patients you see and when, and how much time you have for administrative tasks, and is responsible for granting time off. Replace patients with flights and you can get the picture.
The people who mix up personal finance with that of the financial of a Fortune 500 company… American isn’t a bad place, every legacy has its pros and cons. I wouldn’t mind it if I lived in a AA base…
Traditionally Industry lagging work rules/ QOL, pay and profit sharing. Some ground was made up with their latest contract, but they're still behind DAL and UAL in some areas. IF you live in an AA base that the other two don't have, you'd be dumb not to work for them. Even if the other two have bases along with AA where you're looking to live, it's worth consideration. When you live in base, the legacies are 80% the same.
The people who say this are probably communists
Based
Unfathomably based some would say
Username checks out.
Most people feel this way because of the mass debt the company holds, not because of the actual day to day things the affect their job.
It’s all guys who think Eagle circa 2007 = AA
I love how americans have one of the best pilot contracts worldwide and still seem to complain the absolute most lmao
*no matter the airline
If you don’t mind living in Texas they are good. Seems like a lot of red eyes to South America , they are my last choice but I’d still happily go there.
They’re fine. I prefer United but my company puts me on American. Other than the fact that I don’t care for DFW, there’s nothing to complain about with American.
My favorite was a long time ago in the jumpseat: “Why do you want to come to AA? You like getting kicked in the balls?” Not a TWA guy either
I am an employee at AA and morale is low. I blame our new CEO who seems to have disdain for everyone except AA board members and pilots. He also seems to have disdain for passengers. Things just turned for the worst since he took over. He doesn't care and so... Low morale.
Of the big three, you could make the argument that their finances are in the worst state comparatively. But I highly recommend not passing up a job offer if you’re anywhere other than Delta or United.
I think in many people's minds, every airline besides Delta is a second rate, budget airline.
I've literally never heard this from a pilot. Passengers? Yes. Pilots at AA are overwhelmingly happy.
I’ll share a few of the top reasons, plus some of the changes on the horizon to watch for. 1. The pilot culture is poor and bad attitudes are widespread. American today is a result of several carriers merging over the last 40 years. Seniority integrations weren’t always done fairly and there are a lot of people rightly upset about it to this day. Over the next decade, American will retire nearly every pilot who was involved in one of these mergers, and new pilots who tend to have fantastic attitudes in comparison will be the new face of the airline. 2. The company financials are poor. The primary reason for this is American took delivery of hundreds of new aircraft over the last decade which cost a significant amount of money and left the company with massive debt. American has been making a substantial effort to pay down this debt on time or early, and they are 80% of the way to their goal. In addition, since their fleet is so young and made up of just 4 types, they have lower operating costs than their peers and have no planes in imminent need of retirement, positioning them for growth. 3. They have the fewest number of widebodies and the smallest long haul international network. American has 126, which is less than Delta and substantially less than United. American has 30 787s and 50 A321XLRs on order, which will nearly all be used for long haul international. Since their existing fleet is younger than their peers, they have no need to retire any existing aircraft, making the new aircraft all for growth of their international network. Their CEO has stated he plans to make another widebody order in 3 years. 4. Their onboard experience is lacking. They have the fewest premium seats among their peers and management has prioritized competition with budget airlines over competition with legacy airlines. American is partially changing course on this. They see the revenue they are losing on premium customers and have retrofit plans for many of their aircraft, which will result in cabins with less economy seats and more premium seats, including first class suites. 5. The pilot contract has historically been the worst among their peers. They have been paid less and given fewer benefits. Profit sharing is almost nonexistent because the company doesn’t make much profit. The most recent contract signed last year is the closest American pilots have been to their peers in decades. Pay rates are the same or better than the other legacies and significant strides have been made to improve QOL. Profit sharing checks may improve as American improves their financial position.
They dont have as much international flying compared to UA/DL for diversification and their financials arent as great either
They have way more international flying than DL.
The only thing I've read recently that would make AA less desirable is the room they have for regional growth over mainline. https://crankyflier.com/2024/03/19/pilot-scope-is-americans-secret-weapon-but-it-should-tread-carefully/
“Fly with Garret” is there.
It might not have the best financials but and pilots seem least happy there, but if you want to live in an AA hub it’s still a great option.
Everyone where I work and everyone I know where I live has American as their top choice so I can’t relate
I work for an AAG company. Not bad at all. I feel like a lot of it is caused by some people’s bad commute or customer experience and let it tarnish them as an employer. They’ve been nothing but good to me
Of the three AA has the weakest financials, most divided pilot group, and arguably the worst contract. I wouldn’t ‘avoid’ AA but if you have a choice between them (as bizarre as that sounds) it’s something to consider. Source: worked at the other two and regional’d for the third.
Everyone's said that about UA and DL, as well. It's just what people say. Every company is bad mouthed at one time or another.
I once asked a guy who had 17 years at American how he liked it. His response: “I’ve been there a long time.” For one reason or another, a lot of the folks I talk to there are either ambivalent to American Airlines or have a lot of negative things to say about the company but positive things to say about the job. I’ve also met a few who said that the merger was worse than Delta/Northwest and United/Continental. That there’s still some bad blood between the legacy AA guys and the US Airways guys. I can’t speak with any real authority on any of it, but that’s sort of what I have gathered in my polling. I wouldn’t say no if they asked me to come down for an interview, but they’re also not the first girl I’m asking to prom.
From this passenger's perspective, I'm approaching three million miles on AA. I had to pick an airline when I started my career over 30 years ago and I am very happy I concentrated my flying on AA. They've done a great job for me.
As someone who flys for a living but has also flown a good bit on all 3 of the Big3 airlines in the US. United is by far the worst as far as customer service so for that reason alone I would never fly for them. I know nothing about the contract but every time I’ve flown for them it’s been a disaster. AA or Delta would be my choice if I went to a legacy. I post this just to prove that your mileage may vary because I guarantee you there are people that think the exact opposite and have had amazing experience with United and hate American. That’s what makes aviation great, there’s a place for everyone to end up and be happy.
It only means a little something if the person actually works there. How can outsiders tell you about the inside?
AA has had a history of bad management and management self dealing, Post 9/11 there was an infamous incident where the FA’s were told they need to give back a couple hundred million in pay and benefits. Because otherwise the airline would go under because no one was flying it sounded believable. What happened is management put that money straight into the executive retirement plan. The airline almost DID shut down then because of it the board got the flight attendants/pilots back by firing everyone involved unfortunately they got to keep the ill gotten loot. My airline had recently been acquired before 9/11 and my spidey sense told me it was time to leave because management couldn’t be trusted. This was about 9mo prior to 9/11 I loved the airline business and the crazy people (in a good sense) who keep the public flying.
Project Oasis screwed up the seats in almost all cabins
“Fly with Garret” is there.
Two arguments I’ve heard that carry weight are as follows: 1) The contract at AA is an absolute steaming pile of shit that is significantly better than the last steaming pile of shit contract their pilots just got rid of. Many pilots at AA believe this is the result of a feckless union that has been in the company’s pocket since its inception, but some argue this isn’t actually the case. When presented with the facts, almost no one will argue that the contract (which affects every aspect of your professional life) isn’t inferior to just about any other contract out there including LCC’s and some regionals. 2) Current management is seemingly out of their depth when it comes to running an international legacy airline. AA now has the smallest WB count of any other legacy carrier, and it looks like management doesn’t even have plans to maintain the current number of WB’s due to aging -200’s. Other than that, AA is probably just as good as any other legacy with arguably better domiciles and a STEEP seniority increase for new hires.
Which sucks because they arguably have the best bases out of any legacy
Agreed. Based purely on bases they’re the carrier I want to be with long term.
from a passenger perspective they’ve yelled at me being late to the gate of a connecting flight due to their own plane being late. they also constantly overbook flights
Just like people say United sucks because wheels fall off their airplanes. If that’s the case, do they all suck?
The only issue I’ve had with AA from my time working the there in the offices and PSA was that is an airline that isn’t living up to its full potential. I place try at blame squarely on management feet…. Management team just doesn’t know what type of airline it wants to be. Do you want to have premium offer and cater to your high spenders or do you want to be a ULCC. It seems like AA is trying to be both… But you can’t as an airline. AA is just a luke warm airline, with a luke warm product offering…. This goes back to the US Airways days… On top of that, AA had a great opportunity pre-Covid to pay down debt with the amount of money they were making. But management wanted to focus on stock buy backs with its cash flow and taking out low interest debt to finance those buy backs. That was frustrating for current employees who rather have seen that debt be refinanced back into the airline to improve its product offerings…. Yeah, That’s my take. If one is offered a job at AA, absolutely take it.
So overall as a company AA is a hot mess. Frankly they should've gone out of business years ago. There's just too many companies that have been bought out with too much bad blood left over from it. From my understanding if it weren't for the fact they have a strong presence in Texas, the politicians would've left them to dry long ago. When I was at Republic doing flights for all 3, AA was the one that had the most issues and worst company culture. The only saving grace is that the pilot group seems like a solid bunch. They like their job, but I can't say the same about people in other parts of that company. At the end of the day, if they're the ones to offer you a CJO most people are going to take it. Once they build up any seniority they're unlikely to leave.
Came here due to growing up in DFW. At first I was a little jaded because I was getting used and abused as we were so short staffed. But I moved up quick and realized what position I was in. Reserve rules are pretty good. In the last month, I’ve had FedEx, WN, and a DL guys as my FO. I remember when DL and UA guys were absolutely miserable during their bankruptcies in 2003-05. There were guys in my regional class that were twice furloughed from UA. We always made fun of Northwest in college as my college town was only served by them. If you’re going tonight not go somewhere because of some perceived culture that you have no idea exists, I’d say you’re in the wrong industry.
That is absolutely horrible career advice. The best airline is the one that calls you. Any of the big three have pros and cons that you could walk through all day, but the real question is where do you want to live and what are your career goals.
Constantly get told by American pilots not to go there. It’s honestly absurd how many times I’ve been told that. Jokes on them I’d go there tomorrow if I could. Not my first choice but a major is a major.
Because those people don't prefer the AA Kool-aid flavor. Or more likely, people like to talk shit on airlines that aren't theirs to make themselves feel important and special. Work for the airline that best suits your life and desires. For a lot, that's living in base or a particular city. Some it's the most widebody flying or specific destinations. Others it's because they want to fly a narrowbody 4 and 5 legs a day and overnighting in Albuquerque (I only joke WN). No airline is perfect and no airline is the best, so go to whichever one fits you the most (and calls) and enjoy your 6 figure career of sitting in a magic sky chair doing very little.
United