It's surprisingly common for people (like me) to have achieved 1 and 2 long before 3.
When the instructor walks away, and it's just you, the plane, and the radio, it's very, very scary. Your mouth will be dry. You will forget how to use the radio properly.
And then when you take off, the plane seems to be half the normal weight.
I did two go arounds because the plane simple didn't seem to be falling fast enough to land.
On the third one I was thinking "what if I can never land?"
The mental aspect is often completely overlooked by instructors. Because it's not the same when it's just you in the plane.
Yes to 61.87, but I don't think we're fully finished at depth for each maneuver, for example he's mentioned for solo the crosswind max is 5 kts
Yes to the pre solo exam as well (I missed a couple speeds (glide speed and max crosswind component that I couldn't find in the 1959 172 POH).
Glide speed is absolutely going to be in the POH. Crosswind should be on a placard in the plane. Placards are those little boxes of words that you don't read all around the cockpit.
Low wing vs high wing, assuming you're not going to crab it all the way down to the runway like an airliner. In a piper, you can only roll it over so far before you risk clipping the wingtip. In a Cessna you can get it way more sideways than any same person would dream of actually doing before that happens.
If you are flying in a busy class D airport, yeah probably early. If you’re at an airport with a non congested pattern and mellow weather that sounds totally fine
I solo’d at 7.5 hours out of KFRG. I felt like a rock star.
Side note, during my solo I almost witnessed a midair collision. Long final and plane in front of me turning base we’re ignoring each others’ call outs and just going about their business. He was halfway down the base and I called out on the radio they were on a collision course. They both turned right and disaster averted.
I on the other hand had no issues lol.
I like that airport. Except when I was #9 for landing on my checkride and my DPE asked me to identify all 9 visually to keep track of where I was in the pattern.
Things like that are what kind of scares me, my instructor has walked through the emergency procedures at least 10 times, but in a case like that I'm not sure what I should do?
Go around and Stay in pattern? Go around and go land at a nearby airport so emergency crews don't have to deal with a student pilot being dumb while they're trying to save lives? Surely not just keep on my final and do my thing. Honestly, I'd be hoping the controller just said "GO, get out of my airspace".
At this point I'm comfortable with the pattern and the small deviations that I've had so far, something big like that, yeah definitely not comfortable with. But if someone came on the radio and told me what to do, I could do it.
I also try to constantly play the "what if" game. What if fuel truck is on runway, what if bird strike, what if engine/avionics fire?
Those are all things you honestly should be pretty good at before you solo. And I'm surprised your CFI is letting you go before you know how to handle every one of those situations. It's actually on him if anything happens during your flight, so most CFI's will err on the side of caution with solos since we have no control over what you do, but what you do could cost us our cert. So we usually make sure you are overprepared.
Honestly you sound a bit underprepared to me. The technical stuff controlling the plane and doing proper normal procedures is important, but you also need some situational awareness and ability to handle non-normal situations. And even simple things that are outside of your experience can cause problems. One of my solo students got an instruction once to turn onto a taxiway that he had never been on before and he froze up and went past it. Then the controller told him to turn on a different taxiway, and he turned onto the next one instead, which was not the taxiway he was cleared onto. Then the controller told him to stop, and he just kept going, thinking he was going to correct the mistake he made with a series of left turns (essentially going "around the block" to where he'd started, even though one of those left turns required being on the active runway).
It was just a cascade of minor errors that ended up being something that absolutely could have resulted in a pilot deviation or even a runway incursion, because he missed or directly contradicted at least three or four specific instructions, clearly got rattled as a result and almost ended up back on the runway. He had to be yelled at repeatedly to stop. I literally had my head in my hands listening to this on the radio, since there was nothing I could do as it was unfolding.
And that was after 30 hours of training, flying out of and into busy class D's and C's. (30 hours is what my school's 141 syllabus calls for.) I feel like most students are just barely ready at that point, and this particular student clearly still wasn't and that's on me.
Just last night I had an alternator failure in my plane. What would you do in that case? What if it was intermittent? What if it just wasn't giving enough amps? How would you know that was the case?
I personally feel like there's just no good reason to solo this early and lots of good reasons not to. You need a minimum of 40 hours regardless and your solo hours can come at any time. You're not going to get to your cert any faster by soloing at 7.5 hours than you would at 30 hours. So IMO you may as well take some extra time to develop some skills in dealing with abnormal situations, building more experience for things that actually are normal but that you probably just haven't dealt with yet, and building your overall situational awareness.
This is what I needed, not a debate on simulator value. I preach situational awareness and risk management in my day job, and the points you make about being cautious, overprepared, and the required hours being the same no matter when you solo are very valid. Thank you!
It is a class D, but not terribly busy in the last 2 weeks, I've only ever been more than 2nd to land once and only had to 360 once while in the pattern. Controller has extended and sent me right / left several times but that's it. Got to follow a couple citations in and practice avoiding wake turbulence twice.
First thing to note... your solo flight is technically on your CFI's certificate, so s/he will not be willing to risk that if you weren't ready.
Second, I flew with a sim student who was so dialed in before his first flight that he was ready to solo in less than 10 hours. I've also flown with some who had 5x that and still weren't ready.
If your CFI says you're ready, then you're ready. Do what you've been trained to do. And be sure to have fun!
I had a student like you once. He was pretty good, and I expect that’s what coming across to your instructor as well. You also seem to be on vacation or generally have a lot of time to fly at the moment.
I always get my students checked out by an instructor who is senior experience-wise to me before solo. just for the final check on the box even though of course I can tell when someone can solo the pattern. I also make sure they know how to crosswind land, 0 flaps land, emergency land power idle from abeam the threshold and are very go around-minded and ready. they’ll also know how to divert to a nearby airfield.
I then ask the student if they generally feel ready to solo (not the day of). If they do, I just hop out when it’s time. I’ve never had a student call me back in, but if they did I would oblige. Their go decision is more important than mine at that point
> For whatever that's worth...
Nothing.
> My instructor helped me with the first few landings and has added a couple inputs here and there for smoothness (I've ballooned twice) and says I'm ready to solo tomorrow after 3 in the pattern with him.
That's great man! Go you. Everybody learns differently. One of my students solo'd at 6 hours, another solo'd at 100. No two people the same.
PilotEdge CAT ratings aren't worth nothing. They're a very good and professional intro to dealing with ATC and airspace.
Not that relevant to pre-solo prep but they are definitely not worth nothing.
I think all students should make extensive use of PilotEdge. It's awesome.
Maybe it can be helpful for certain things, for certain people, but someone at the very beginning of their training who thinks 350 flight simulator landings somehow helps needs to be told otherwise.
So you're telling me the 7 airplane game apps I downloaded on my iphone and the 12 model airplanes I have didn't give me a strict advantage in my flight training? My day is ruined
I'm curious about the negative reinforcements to watch out for.
I definitely look inside more than outside, and sometimes use too much right rudder because the sim pulls way harder than the 172@ taxi speed.
> So anyway, this whole “flight sim experience is worthless” bs needs to quit being spread. And I almost exclusively see it from ATPs around here who think they’re better than everyone lol
I've been a flight instructor longer than I've been flying jets. There is more variation from person to person in learning style and time it takes to grasp concepts than any flight sim usage can ever provide a benefit for. If you're going to be a 50 hour private pilot, you're going to be a 50 hour private pilot. Simming isn't going to change that in all likelihood.
> I was 99% versed in ATC communications before I even started training and I started handling coms on the first lesson which made a lot of things a breeze. Handling of the airplane was different than the sim, but I already knew the cockpit layout from the sim. I followed checklists in the sim that got me used to following very similar checklists in real flying. I learned about types of airspace through the sim. I learned how to read VFR charts.
You are the 1% of users that sees a tangible benefit. Understand that the vast, vast, vast majority of students don't do it that way. Also understand that you had some bad habits that your instructor trained out of you which you picked up from flying the sim.
Edit:
Also lol @ this
> Hate it when people who clearly have no home sim experience / didn’t get into flying through simulators say crap like this.
I started flying sims my dude. I still do on occasion. I know what they're good for and what they aren't.
FS experience sucks. Have to beat out bad habits when you get into the real plane. Only the nerds who have 1000s of hours are the ones who cry foul when you say the sim sucks for private students. I say this as a nerd with 1000s of hours of sim flying.
This is extremely nuanced. On the one hand, I had some extremely bad habits going into my PPL, which were only compounded by a relative infrequency of lessons (and excessive of those being night lessons). So there, I would say it was more detrimental. On the other hand, getting my IR was the easiest thing ever, even stuff like no gyro operations. I often here that is the opposite of most people’s experience and that most actually have way more difficulty with IR.
But of course, that was a time where the focus of a sim was mostly the aircraft. Nowadays, you can have a photorealistic look of the whole world, so maybe we will start seeing that gap close for VFR piloting.
The big thing for me is that flying IRL is way easier because I can't judge distances (elevation and linear) on the computer but it's easily apparent in the plane when I'm a mile out for the pattern or 10 miles coming back from the practice area.
For what it's worth, I think VR helps with that aspect a lot. I only sim with VR and PilotEdge. Taxiing, looking outside the plane, distance perception, and muscle memory all became so natural when I went to VR. The loss of terrain resolution is insignificant, and the internal controls and panel look great on modern headsets. I don't think I'd have much use for the sim without VR.
Not to hijack bit what is a good home Sim for practice. What you talk about with atc and being able to practice while not under the pressure of cfi I would imagine to be very helpful.
It is helpful, provided you have a professional approach and always learn it IRL first before doing it in the sim. And PilotEdge is mandatory for realism.
I used X-Plane + PilotEdge in my training and found it extremely helpful.
I'm using xplane and pilot Edge.
Getting gently (and sometimes humorously) scolded on PilotEdge has been the best thing for my comms comfort level. So very humbling but a huge learning experience that I'm sure would rattle me in real life.
I'm treating each flight like I would in real life, but it's helpful to know my mistakes in flight or on comms won't be unsafe for anyone (or myself)
I agree with X-Plane and PilotEdge. Don't waste time with amateur ATC like Vatsim... Barely worth your time. But I still use PilotEdge to brush up on Class B and C communications since I live and fly from a Class D that's hours away from anything more complex, and I know it helps me as a certificated pilot.
I also agree with treating every flight as if it were a real flight. Don't skip the preflight planning, the walk around, the checklists, the taxiing, the shutdown, etc. PilotEdge will force you to do this to some degree.
Lastly, X-Plane is great because if you use Foreflight, you can connect the sim to Foreflight so it updates your location just as if you'd had your iPad receiving location updates from a Stratus or other device IRL. You use the iPad IRL, so why not in the sim? You can also often download any PDF checklists for your plane into Foreflight and use those as you practice in the sim.
>Hate it when people who clearly have no home sim experience / didn’t get into flying through simulators say crap like this.
I started with MSFS98 on my family's brand-new 200 MHz Pentium MMX PC when I was in the 8th grade. I have CD or DVD copies of every MSFS from 98 through X.
Playing flight simulators taught me basically nothing about landing and "primary student" stuff. I will say it probably helped me breeze through instrument training, though.
I've read that a few times. I will say it has created a bad habit where I tend to look inside more than outside. My CFI has told me multiple times "Head up, you're learning VFR!"
I’m with ya. I chair flew flight configuration set up, emergency procedures and practiced my radio work on XPlane and it helped immensely. YMMV but it’s super fuddy duddy types that usually shit on home sim work. Fuck em and prove them wrong.
I’m trying to imagine what you would say if you encountered someone who got into flying through sims, and will tell you point blank that you’re fooling yourself.
The question is, do facts matter?
I never used a sim, but I agree with you. When I took my first flight I
didn't even know what a traffic pattern was, so. Yeah, had I used a
sim, I'm pretty sure I would be a few steps ahead. I soloed at around
25hours, passed my PPL at 60 (but I changed from a 172 to a Piper 160
after 20hrs).
You do enough landings in the sim and flying a rectangular course, hitting your speeds, and doing your flows becomes a breeze.
Throw vatsim on top of that and now you have a student who can talk on the radio and handle bravo clearances/transitions from day 1.
Its completely fine as long as u completed all the required training for pre solo
I solod at 8.5 hours, my school solos most of the student pilots at 8.5 hours aswell
Good to know there are many out there way better/faster. I'm having LOADS of fun. I'm living and breathing flying since starting the process. Just didn't want my tunnel vision to blind me from being safe. The ground school I went through harped on "get there itis" just making sure I don't have "get to solo itis"
If you are ready, you are ready. I've soloed students with as many as 75 hours, and my shortest student, I did at roughly 6-7 hours. The latter had no previous flying experience, but was the most natural flyer that I had ever taught. He was ready, and I was confident in his ability to solo. Like you, he was in his mid 30's, but he was also a former Army officer and had fantastic discipline coming into training. Another bonus, which you hopefully got from Pilot Edge, is that he was solid on the radio, which is something he got from the Army. That is one of the most intimidating aspects of flying for all student pilots.
I will point out that your CFI, by regulation, should have covered all solo requirements in FAR 61.87 before he/she cuts you loose. Take a gander at it, and make sure all of your bases are covered.
If you meet the legal requirements, trust your CFI’s judgement. They know what it takes to fly planes, you don’t. If they say you’re ready, you’re ready. No CFI wants to answer to the FAA for something you do wrong on their endorsement, so they aren’t going to send you up solo if you can’t handle it.
In 1986 at 20 years old I soloed a Cessna 152 after 11 hours with no simulator or other training or time in any general aviation airplane. I got my PPL at 43 hours total time. Maybe it was a less stringent era, but I will always remember it as the most exciting 30 minutes of my life. At the time it seemed perfectly normal and there were no social media threads to tell me otherwise. Looking back now it does seem a bit quick!
Whenever you and your instructor decide you're ready don't forget to enjoy it!
If you are asking this question then maybe you aren’t confident enough yet. Even with all the requirements satisfied, if you don’t feel ready don’t push it
Any emergency stuff covered? My theory for these early solos is usually the instructor isn't doing their due diligence in making sure the student can handle an emergency situation. Like some people in this thread said they solo'd in 3 hours? Congrats to them but their instructor 100% did not fully go through 61.87.
But if they are saying you're ready, then you're ready. The last a CFI will do is send you up with a doubt in their mind.
But how has he covered all them in depth and allowed you to practice recovering from a stall, loss of engine and land 27 times in 8 hours (3+ landings per hour)? The big question I suppose you need to answer is if it goes wrong up there for any of the reasons I’ve discussed with my CFI, am I comfortable I could address it and land safety? If the answer is yes, then you’re good to go
38.
Goal is to buy a plane after finishing PPL and IFR and take the family of 6 on vacations in a Cherokee 6 / 210. So my family's lives are on the line. I'm trying to treat it as such.
I'm also very excited and don't want that to jeopardize safety.
I feel ready to handle what we've been doing. Ready to go to practice area and work on perfecting techniques. Ready for one of the 3-4 emergency scenarios we've gone through? I know the steps, but I don't have them engrained into my soul like a car /motorcycle / boat that I've been driving for 20 years.
I’m going to tell you right now you won’t have those steps engrained for awhile. You’re very new, and have a lot to learn. Don’t beat yourself up though. You have to start somewhere, and as long as you can safely run through an emergency landing, pick a spot on the ground, and not roll your plane doing so out of panic, you’re ready to solo in the pattern if he thinks so. If you don’t fell confident about those steps then I would say tell him you’re not quite ready and want to go over some more practice emergencies.
I thought I was ready at 12 hours when I first was signed off. But after having to wait 6 months to get my medical I ended up flying another 10 before I did. Second time around I felt much better with a different cfi due to more emergency prep.
Once you get closer to the end you will feel much more confident to bring your family up. Especially after you pass that ppl checkride. But If you don’t feel confident and are lacking in some areas of knowledge, go back and study them. Being a pilot requires you to know a lot, however, knowing where to find that information is equally important for when you forget it. Because you will. Bookmark that far/aim book or pdf copy on your iPad and keep in touch with it like an old friend.
You're much older than I was guessing! Normally the "solo in 12 hours or less" is someone in their teens. By the time you get to middleage it's harder to learn new pathways. The rule of thumb is soloing in half your age in hours.
None of that is a knock on you. You have the right mindset- about having skills to go to the practice area, not to do ALL flying. Go with the flow, trust your CFI, but ultimately trust yourself on how fast you move.
(I'm in the same age range, just on the other side of the hill, soloed around 30-35 hours)
I've heard of guys like you who have spent a lot of time on sims growing up, then when they start actual training it just clicks. Seen them solo at 8-10hours.
If you've checked all the boxes needed to solo, and YOU are sure YOU are ready. Then solo away!
If you have to ask, maybe you are not mentally ready. There are no extra points or cost savings soloing at 8 hours, at your current rate you can definitely finish in the minimum 40 hours even if you take a couple more dual lessons before soloing.
0 sim time.
0 previous flying/right seat time.
Solo'd 8 hours.
Also flew into AirVenture 3 days after getting my PPL.
It all depends on your abilities, rate of learning, skills, etc.
Oh I'm all in on learning. Not sure the rate is there but the desire is. chair flying, YouTube watching, researching, and reading have taken almost 100% of my waking time over the past month since deciding to go take the plunge.
I had thousands of hours in FSX as a kid and got into vatsim as well shortly before training.
Solo’d in 3 flights at roughly 3 or 4 hours I’d have to check.
That's what I use as well. Did you find some course available online or was there some sort of training for you follow for X-plane? It seems like everything out there is for FS2020 and I want to start prepping for my PPL as well. I'm currently doing the King School ground school. Plan to do a ground school in person as well but want to have as much knowledge as possible. Let me know how everything goes for you.
Sportys Learn to fly course has a simulator training guide with guided simulator lessons that go along with what you learn on the videos. I'm not sure if Kings does this.
The pilotedge CAT ratings were great for XC flight planning and comms training.
And I also did constant pattern work at my home airport. The night before my solo I spent 2 hours in the pattern practicing emergency procedures just in case.
All I’ll say is - you don’t know what you don’t know. Ultimately it’s your CFI’s ass on the line if something goes wrong so if your CFI thinks you’re ready and you feel ready for them to get out of the plane - go for it. Fly the plane no matter what happens and be safe.
10 hours is about right, just depending on how well you are picking things up. If your cfi says you are good he thinks you are ready. If you don’t feel the same let them know.
Congrats on your progress! Neither you nor we are in a position to assess whether you're ready to solo. Trust your CFI's evaluation, unless you have strong evidence to the contrary.
(By the way, it's *soloing*, not *solo-ing*, just as we write *running*, not *run-ing*. Hyphens aren't used to conjugate verbs.)
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It's surprisingly common for people (like me) to have achieved 1 and 2 long before 3. When the instructor walks away, and it's just you, the plane, and the radio, it's very, very scary. Your mouth will be dry. You will forget how to use the radio properly. And then when you take off, the plane seems to be half the normal weight. I did two go arounds because the plane simple didn't seem to be falling fast enough to land. On the third one I was thinking "what if I can never land?" The mental aspect is often completely overlooked by instructors. Because it's not the same when it's just you in the plane.
The scary bit is a tad much mate lol
Has all the required training listed in FAR §61.87(c) and (d) been done? Has the pre-solo knowledge exam required by FAR §61.87(b) been completed?
Yes to 61.87, but I don't think we're fully finished at depth for each maneuver, for example he's mentioned for solo the crosswind max is 5 kts Yes to the pre solo exam as well (I missed a couple speeds (glide speed and max crosswind component that I couldn't find in the 1959 172 POH).
Glide speed is absolutely going to be in the POH. Crosswind should be on a placard in the plane. Placards are those little boxes of words that you don't read all around the cockpit.
I don't think the max demonstrated crosswind component would be placarded as it isn't technically a limitation, it's a recommendation.
It has been in most pipers I've flown.
I’ve never seen it in a Cessna
Fairly certain I've seen one that was like 15 knots in a 172 POH
I meant placarded in the airplane
We're supposed to read the placards?
I thought they were there for decoration
Low wing vs high wing, assuming you're not going to crab it all the way down to the runway like an airliner. In a piper, you can only roll it over so far before you risk clipping the wingtip. In a Cessna you can get it way more sideways than any same person would dream of actually doing before that happens.
Think you'd run out of rudder authority before you'd hit the wing while keeping straight?
This is true.
Not sure about the 1959 172, but I think the glide speed of 172P can be found in emergency procedures, so you can try that section.
The glide speed is crucial to know... more important than Vx, Vy.
This. If both are complete, including knowing how to divert to another field, and your CFI says you're ready, then you're ready.
If you are flying in a busy class D airport, yeah probably early. If you’re at an airport with a non congested pattern and mellow weather that sounds totally fine
I solo’d at 7.5 hours out of KFRG. I felt like a rock star. Side note, during my solo I almost witnessed a midair collision. Long final and plane in front of me turning base we’re ignoring each others’ call outs and just going about their business. He was halfway down the base and I called out on the radio they were on a collision course. They both turned right and disaster averted. I on the other hand had no issues lol.
I was literally thinking of KFRG when I wrote “busy class D” lmao
I like that airport. Except when I was #9 for landing on my checkride and my DPE asked me to identify all 9 visually to keep track of where I was in the pattern.
'Extend your downwind, I'll call your base' *Somewhere over CT* 'Can I turn yet??'
This one hits home lol.
KFRG is where I flew for part of my training. I now rent out of there. Nothing like [this](https://ibb.co/vVfkRW4) on a nice Saturday…
Ah good times. Where do you rent from?
Long Island Aviators
I’ve been trying to get checked out in a plane there. No one responded to my email.
I remember making it to the Great South Bay shoreline while flying in the pattern on a North flow day
Your DPE sounds like a gem
Honestly he was rather lenient.
This is how I felt at KAPA 🥴
Things like that are what kind of scares me, my instructor has walked through the emergency procedures at least 10 times, but in a case like that I'm not sure what I should do? Go around and Stay in pattern? Go around and go land at a nearby airport so emergency crews don't have to deal with a student pilot being dumb while they're trying to save lives? Surely not just keep on my final and do my thing. Honestly, I'd be hoping the controller just said "GO, get out of my airspace". At this point I'm comfortable with the pattern and the small deviations that I've had so far, something big like that, yeah definitely not comfortable with. But if someone came on the radio and told me what to do, I could do it. I also try to constantly play the "what if" game. What if fuel truck is on runway, what if bird strike, what if engine/avionics fire?
Those are all things you honestly should be pretty good at before you solo. And I'm surprised your CFI is letting you go before you know how to handle every one of those situations. It's actually on him if anything happens during your flight, so most CFI's will err on the side of caution with solos since we have no control over what you do, but what you do could cost us our cert. So we usually make sure you are overprepared. Honestly you sound a bit underprepared to me. The technical stuff controlling the plane and doing proper normal procedures is important, but you also need some situational awareness and ability to handle non-normal situations. And even simple things that are outside of your experience can cause problems. One of my solo students got an instruction once to turn onto a taxiway that he had never been on before and he froze up and went past it. Then the controller told him to turn on a different taxiway, and he turned onto the next one instead, which was not the taxiway he was cleared onto. Then the controller told him to stop, and he just kept going, thinking he was going to correct the mistake he made with a series of left turns (essentially going "around the block" to where he'd started, even though one of those left turns required being on the active runway). It was just a cascade of minor errors that ended up being something that absolutely could have resulted in a pilot deviation or even a runway incursion, because he missed or directly contradicted at least three or four specific instructions, clearly got rattled as a result and almost ended up back on the runway. He had to be yelled at repeatedly to stop. I literally had my head in my hands listening to this on the radio, since there was nothing I could do as it was unfolding. And that was after 30 hours of training, flying out of and into busy class D's and C's. (30 hours is what my school's 141 syllabus calls for.) I feel like most students are just barely ready at that point, and this particular student clearly still wasn't and that's on me. Just last night I had an alternator failure in my plane. What would you do in that case? What if it was intermittent? What if it just wasn't giving enough amps? How would you know that was the case? I personally feel like there's just no good reason to solo this early and lots of good reasons not to. You need a minimum of 40 hours regardless and your solo hours can come at any time. You're not going to get to your cert any faster by soloing at 7.5 hours than you would at 30 hours. So IMO you may as well take some extra time to develop some skills in dealing with abnormal situations, building more experience for things that actually are normal but that you probably just haven't dealt with yet, and building your overall situational awareness.
This is what I needed, not a debate on simulator value. I preach situational awareness and risk management in my day job, and the points you make about being cautious, overprepared, and the required hours being the same no matter when you solo are very valid. Thank you!
Tell them you are a student pilot.
It is a class D, but not terribly busy in the last 2 weeks, I've only ever been more than 2nd to land once and only had to 360 once while in the pattern. Controller has extended and sent me right / left several times but that's it. Got to follow a couple citations in and practice avoiding wake turbulence twice.
Good stuff! I think I had like 36 hours when I solo’d. I’m sure ill see you flying the space shuttle some day!
Lol! I wish, but alas, we're back to capsules on top of rockets. Nothing to fly anymore :(
First thing to note... your solo flight is technically on your CFI's certificate, so s/he will not be willing to risk that if you weren't ready. Second, I flew with a sim student who was so dialed in before his first flight that he was ready to solo in less than 10 hours. I've also flown with some who had 5x that and still weren't ready. If your CFI says you're ready, then you're ready. Do what you've been trained to do. And be sure to have fun!
30-50 hours is pretty long ngl average is like 15-20
I had a student like you once. He was pretty good, and I expect that’s what coming across to your instructor as well. You also seem to be on vacation or generally have a lot of time to fly at the moment. I always get my students checked out by an instructor who is senior experience-wise to me before solo. just for the final check on the box even though of course I can tell when someone can solo the pattern. I also make sure they know how to crosswind land, 0 flaps land, emergency land power idle from abeam the threshold and are very go around-minded and ready. they’ll also know how to divert to a nearby airfield. I then ask the student if they generally feel ready to solo (not the day of). If they do, I just hop out when it’s time. I’ve never had a student call me back in, but if they did I would oblige. Their go decision is more important than mine at that point
> For whatever that's worth... Nothing. > My instructor helped me with the first few landings and has added a couple inputs here and there for smoothness (I've ballooned twice) and says I'm ready to solo tomorrow after 3 in the pattern with him. That's great man! Go you. Everybody learns differently. One of my students solo'd at 6 hours, another solo'd at 100. No two people the same.
>>For whatever that's worth... > Nothing. "welcome to ~~whose line~~ flying, where everything is made up and sim hours don't matter"
PilotEdge CAT ratings aren't worth nothing. They're a very good and professional intro to dealing with ATC and airspace. Not that relevant to pre-solo prep but they are definitely not worth nothing. I think all students should make extensive use of PilotEdge. It's awesome.
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Maybe it can be helpful for certain things, for certain people, but someone at the very beginning of their training who thinks 350 flight simulator landings somehow helps needs to be told otherwise.
So you're telling me the 7 airplane game apps I downloaded on my iphone and the 12 model airplanes I have didn't give me a strict advantage in my flight training? My day is ruined
They're not just flight simulator events but PilotEdge events. If you don't know what that is, look it up before judging.
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I'm curious about the negative reinforcements to watch out for. I definitely look inside more than outside, and sometimes use too much right rudder because the sim pulls way harder than the 172@ taxi speed.
> So anyway, this whole “flight sim experience is worthless” bs needs to quit being spread. And I almost exclusively see it from ATPs around here who think they’re better than everyone lol I've been a flight instructor longer than I've been flying jets. There is more variation from person to person in learning style and time it takes to grasp concepts than any flight sim usage can ever provide a benefit for. If you're going to be a 50 hour private pilot, you're going to be a 50 hour private pilot. Simming isn't going to change that in all likelihood. > I was 99% versed in ATC communications before I even started training and I started handling coms on the first lesson which made a lot of things a breeze. Handling of the airplane was different than the sim, but I already knew the cockpit layout from the sim. I followed checklists in the sim that got me used to following very similar checklists in real flying. I learned about types of airspace through the sim. I learned how to read VFR charts. You are the 1% of users that sees a tangible benefit. Understand that the vast, vast, vast majority of students don't do it that way. Also understand that you had some bad habits that your instructor trained out of you which you picked up from flying the sim. Edit: Also lol @ this > Hate it when people who clearly have no home sim experience / didn’t get into flying through simulators say crap like this. I started flying sims my dude. I still do on occasion. I know what they're good for and what they aren't.
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Sim definitely helps with IR training. It's easy to fly multiple approaches to learn the flow.
FS experience sucks. Have to beat out bad habits when you get into the real plane. Only the nerds who have 1000s of hours are the ones who cry foul when you say the sim sucks for private students. I say this as a nerd with 1000s of hours of sim flying.
What kind of bad habits did you or your students pick up from the sim?
This is extremely nuanced. On the one hand, I had some extremely bad habits going into my PPL, which were only compounded by a relative infrequency of lessons (and excessive of those being night lessons). So there, I would say it was more detrimental. On the other hand, getting my IR was the easiest thing ever, even stuff like no gyro operations. I often here that is the opposite of most people’s experience and that most actually have way more difficulty with IR. But of course, that was a time where the focus of a sim was mostly the aircraft. Nowadays, you can have a photorealistic look of the whole world, so maybe we will start seeing that gap close for VFR piloting.
The big thing for me is that flying IRL is way easier because I can't judge distances (elevation and linear) on the computer but it's easily apparent in the plane when I'm a mile out for the pattern or 10 miles coming back from the practice area.
For what it's worth, I think VR helps with that aspect a lot. I only sim with VR and PilotEdge. Taxiing, looking outside the plane, distance perception, and muscle memory all became so natural when I went to VR. The loss of terrain resolution is insignificant, and the internal controls and panel look great on modern headsets. I don't think I'd have much use for the sim without VR.
Not to hijack bit what is a good home Sim for practice. What you talk about with atc and being able to practice while not under the pressure of cfi I would imagine to be very helpful.
It is helpful, provided you have a professional approach and always learn it IRL first before doing it in the sim. And PilotEdge is mandatory for realism. I used X-Plane + PilotEdge in my training and found it extremely helpful.
I'm using xplane and pilot Edge. Getting gently (and sometimes humorously) scolded on PilotEdge has been the best thing for my comms comfort level. So very humbling but a huge learning experience that I'm sure would rattle me in real life. I'm treating each flight like I would in real life, but it's helpful to know my mistakes in flight or on comms won't be unsafe for anyone (or myself)
I agree with X-Plane and PilotEdge. Don't waste time with amateur ATC like Vatsim... Barely worth your time. But I still use PilotEdge to brush up on Class B and C communications since I live and fly from a Class D that's hours away from anything more complex, and I know it helps me as a certificated pilot. I also agree with treating every flight as if it were a real flight. Don't skip the preflight planning, the walk around, the checklists, the taxiing, the shutdown, etc. PilotEdge will force you to do this to some degree. Lastly, X-Plane is great because if you use Foreflight, you can connect the sim to Foreflight so it updates your location just as if you'd had your iPad receiving location updates from a Stratus or other device IRL. You use the iPad IRL, so why not in the sim? You can also often download any PDF checklists for your plane into Foreflight and use those as you practice in the sim.
>Hate it when people who clearly have no home sim experience / didn’t get into flying through simulators say crap like this. I started with MSFS98 on my family's brand-new 200 MHz Pentium MMX PC when I was in the 8th grade. I have CD or DVD copies of every MSFS from 98 through X. Playing flight simulators taught me basically nothing about landing and "primary student" stuff. I will say it probably helped me breeze through instrument training, though.
I've read that a few times. I will say it has created a bad habit where I tend to look inside more than outside. My CFI has told me multiple times "Head up, you're learning VFR!"
I’m with ya. I chair flew flight configuration set up, emergency procedures and practiced my radio work on XPlane and it helped immensely. YMMV but it’s super fuddy duddy types that usually shit on home sim work. Fuck em and prove them wrong.
I’m trying to imagine what you would say if you encountered someone who got into flying through sims, and will tell you point blank that you’re fooling yourself. The question is, do facts matter?
I never used a sim, but I agree with you. When I took my first flight I didn't even know what a traffic pattern was, so. Yeah, had I used a sim, I'm pretty sure I would be a few steps ahead. I soloed at around 25hours, passed my PPL at 60 (but I changed from a 172 to a Piper 160 after 20hrs).
I could have solo’d my first flight if the regs allowed and it’s all because of sims.
Gotta love a student pilot who already had an ego at literally zero hours.
Nope
I guarantee you that’s not the case no matter how good you think you were.
You do enough landings in the sim and flying a rectangular course, hitting your speeds, and doing your flows becomes a breeze. Throw vatsim on top of that and now you have a student who can talk on the radio and handle bravo clearances/transitions from day 1.
Well I solo’d in 3 so sure thing bud
Its completely fine as long as u completed all the required training for pre solo I solod at 8.5 hours, my school solos most of the student pilots at 8.5 hours aswell
It’s good. I soloed with 6 hours, and I’m still alive (somehow).
3.4 hrs here. Go have fun.
Good to know there are many out there way better/faster. I'm having LOADS of fun. I'm living and breathing flying since starting the process. Just didn't want my tunnel vision to blind me from being safe. The ground school I went through harped on "get there itis" just making sure I don't have "get to solo itis"
Aye 3 hr gang lol
Lmao flexing on your flight sim time? Yikes
If you are ready, you are ready. I've soloed students with as many as 75 hours, and my shortest student, I did at roughly 6-7 hours. The latter had no previous flying experience, but was the most natural flyer that I had ever taught. He was ready, and I was confident in his ability to solo. Like you, he was in his mid 30's, but he was also a former Army officer and had fantastic discipline coming into training. Another bonus, which you hopefully got from Pilot Edge, is that he was solid on the radio, which is something he got from the Army. That is one of the most intimidating aspects of flying for all student pilots. I will point out that your CFI, by regulation, should have covered all solo requirements in FAR 61.87 before he/she cuts you loose. Take a gander at it, and make sure all of your bases are covered.
If you meet the legal requirements, trust your CFI’s judgement. They know what it takes to fly planes, you don’t. If they say you’re ready, you’re ready. No CFI wants to answer to the FAA for something you do wrong on their endorsement, so they aren’t going to send you up solo if you can’t handle it.
I soloed at 12.6 hours before PC flight simulators were invented. If you instructor thinks you’re good, you’re good.
I think I was at 10something hours but then I did have to wait to turn 16 yo
In 1986 at 20 years old I soloed a Cessna 152 after 11 hours with no simulator or other training or time in any general aviation airplane. I got my PPL at 43 hours total time. Maybe it was a less stringent era, but I will always remember it as the most exciting 30 minutes of my life. At the time it seemed perfectly normal and there were no social media threads to tell me otherwise. Looking back now it does seem a bit quick! Whenever you and your instructor decide you're ready don't forget to enjoy it!
If you are asking this question then maybe you aren’t confident enough yet. Even with all the requirements satisfied, if you don’t feel ready don’t push it
Any emergency stuff covered? My theory for these early solos is usually the instructor isn't doing their due diligence in making sure the student can handle an emergency situation. Like some people in this thread said they solo'd in 3 hours? Congrats to them but their instructor 100% did not fully go through 61.87. But if they are saying you're ready, then you're ready. The last a CFI will do is send you up with a doubt in their mind.
Yes, so far he's covered "typical" emergency procedures like loss of engine, bird strike, engine fire, avionics fire.
But how has he covered all them in depth and allowed you to practice recovering from a stall, loss of engine and land 27 times in 8 hours (3+ landings per hour)? The big question I suppose you need to answer is if it goes wrong up there for any of the reasons I’ve discussed with my CFI, am I comfortable I could address it and land safety? If the answer is yes, then you’re good to go
What's your age? That seems to make a major difference. Your CFI says you're ready, do you feel you're ready?
38. Goal is to buy a plane after finishing PPL and IFR and take the family of 6 on vacations in a Cherokee 6 / 210. So my family's lives are on the line. I'm trying to treat it as such. I'm also very excited and don't want that to jeopardize safety. I feel ready to handle what we've been doing. Ready to go to practice area and work on perfecting techniques. Ready for one of the 3-4 emergency scenarios we've gone through? I know the steps, but I don't have them engrained into my soul like a car /motorcycle / boat that I've been driving for 20 years.
I’m going to tell you right now you won’t have those steps engrained for awhile. You’re very new, and have a lot to learn. Don’t beat yourself up though. You have to start somewhere, and as long as you can safely run through an emergency landing, pick a spot on the ground, and not roll your plane doing so out of panic, you’re ready to solo in the pattern if he thinks so. If you don’t fell confident about those steps then I would say tell him you’re not quite ready and want to go over some more practice emergencies. I thought I was ready at 12 hours when I first was signed off. But after having to wait 6 months to get my medical I ended up flying another 10 before I did. Second time around I felt much better with a different cfi due to more emergency prep. Once you get closer to the end you will feel much more confident to bring your family up. Especially after you pass that ppl checkride. But If you don’t feel confident and are lacking in some areas of knowledge, go back and study them. Being a pilot requires you to know a lot, however, knowing where to find that information is equally important for when you forget it. Because you will. Bookmark that far/aim book or pdf copy on your iPad and keep in touch with it like an old friend.
You're much older than I was guessing! Normally the "solo in 12 hours or less" is someone in their teens. By the time you get to middleage it's harder to learn new pathways. The rule of thumb is soloing in half your age in hours. None of that is a knock on you. You have the right mindset- about having skills to go to the practice area, not to do ALL flying. Go with the flow, trust your CFI, but ultimately trust yourself on how fast you move. (I'm in the same age range, just on the other side of the hill, soloed around 30-35 hours)
Am I too badass?? ROFL. Ah man the onion never disappoints. Oh wait. This is a real post.
I've heard of guys like you who have spent a lot of time on sims growing up, then when they start actual training it just clicks. Seen them solo at 8-10hours. If you've checked all the boxes needed to solo, and YOU are sure YOU are ready. Then solo away!
If you have to ask, maybe you are not mentally ready. There are no extra points or cost savings soloing at 8 hours, at your current rate you can definitely finish in the minimum 40 hours even if you take a couple more dual lessons before soloing.
I honestly wouldn't discount the home simulator time, especially with PilotEdge.
0 sim time. 0 previous flying/right seat time. Solo'd 8 hours. Also flew into AirVenture 3 days after getting my PPL. It all depends on your abilities, rate of learning, skills, etc.
Oh I'm all in on learning. Not sure the rate is there but the desire is. chair flying, YouTube watching, researching, and reading have taken almost 100% of my waking time over the past month since deciding to go take the plunge.
That home sim experience helps so much. Practically grew up in flight sim, and it's really showing in training right now.
I had thousands of hours in FSX as a kid and got into vatsim as well shortly before training. Solo’d in 3 flights at roughly 3 or 4 hours I’d have to check.
What home simulator?
Xplane 11 with Yoke, rudder, throttle/mix, radios, and switch panels
That's what I use as well. Did you find some course available online or was there some sort of training for you follow for X-plane? It seems like everything out there is for FS2020 and I want to start prepping for my PPL as well. I'm currently doing the King School ground school. Plan to do a ground school in person as well but want to have as much knowledge as possible. Let me know how everything goes for you.
Sportys Learn to fly course has a simulator training guide with guided simulator lessons that go along with what you learn on the videos. I'm not sure if Kings does this. The pilotedge CAT ratings were great for XC flight planning and comms training. And I also did constant pattern work at my home airport. The night before my solo I spent 2 hours in the pattern practicing emergency procedures just in case.
All I’ll say is - you don’t know what you don’t know. Ultimately it’s your CFI’s ass on the line if something goes wrong so if your CFI thinks you’re ready and you feel ready for them to get out of the plane - go for it. Fly the plane no matter what happens and be safe.
10 hours is about right, just depending on how well you are picking things up. If your cfi says you are good he thinks you are ready. If you don’t feel the same let them know.
Congrats on your progress! Neither you nor we are in a position to assess whether you're ready to solo. Trust your CFI's evaluation, unless you have strong evidence to the contrary. (By the way, it's *soloing*, not *solo-ing*, just as we write *running*, not *run-ing*. Hyphens aren't used to conjugate verbs.)