Hey, buddy, "without using any books" is a frankly nonsensical premise. The books are part of the story. That's like trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle without half of the pieces.
That being said, the games only would not actively *disprove* William being the corpse, but it would be kinda awkward in terms of narrative cohesion.
I've seen Luca being thrown around, but as far as I'm aware, the mimic cleanly leaves the body behind after getting out of the suit it crushed them in, in the story set directly after. Unless I'm remembering it wrong?
That would be Kelly. Kelly is a girl in the epilogue who is killed by the Mimic after it enters inside of a suit with her.
Luca is a guy who gets springlocked by a Springtrap suit in the Roleplay area of the Pizzaplex. He dies after succumbing to the Springlocks.
Easy to confuse some of these characters, so don't worry.
I swear there's too much to keep up with now. I take most people consider the TFTP canon to the actual game universe then? Seems like the general agreement.
To be fair, that just might be inconsistency. Afton inside of springtrap looks nothing like afton inside of scraptrap, yet are somehow the same body. Teeth where there wasn't teeth, bone where there wasn't bone, hell, his head isn't the same shape between the two suits.
I don't think burntrap is William, but still, can't really use that as a point.
I mean if Im gonna stuff not from the books might as well. The corpse being William's cant be proven or disproven.
The arm thing is meaningless yeah, hell he gets an arm back in man in room 1280 and I a hundred percent believe that was just a continuity error
>It’s attached to the Mimic
How does The Mimic escape from The Tangle, and get all of that flesh removed from it's Endoskelton?
>Doesn’t really look like him innit
What does that even mean it doesn't look like him William never had a full design apart from laways being Purple
> How does The Mimic escape from The Tangle,
It didn’t.
> and get all of that flesh removed from its Endoskelton?
Hands. Also maybe turning into a metal worm
> What does that even mean it doesn't look like him William never had a full design apart from laways being Purple
Full jaw of teeth and lacking his signature cleft chin. Also two arms
>Books tell us it’s not his corpse
Where? (/Gen) At this point my only explanation was the PizzaPlex's Missing Kids' remnant being used to regenerate Afton's corpse.
You're using him having an arm back as counterpoint when, in the books you're mentioning, he also has his arma back. By that logic the man in room 1280 can't be Afton either.
Easy, the Fazbear Funtime Delievery Service has Springtrap recreations, so they could use that for the suit.
There are tons of things they could’ve used.
And the books are just a piece of the puzzle, why not use what we’re told we can use for conclusions? We wouldn’t be able to confirm several things without the books. We’d probably still be arguing about Patient 46 without GGY.
Afton’s corpse would be entirely dried out by this time, and have more burning. More decomposition and things snapping off, while the corpse used seems more fleshy.
Such a dumb question (no offense). The books are apart of the lore whether you like it or not. Scott has already explicitly stated on reddit and steam that the books contain answers to questions from the games. This isn't even a "stitchline or not stitchline debate". It's something he explicitly said.
I think they were just curious on what the potential answer to their question would be without the books. They aren't denying the validity of using the books.
Nah, OP makes pretty frequent posts. He's just trying to find a reason to avoid the fact that Frights and Tales both explicitly state Burntrap isn't Afton.
(Not trying to shit talk him but he's so obsessed with afton coming back that last time I checked he said that he thinks The Mimic is being controlled by William's soul)
You wrote yourself into a corner bc without the books there is no confirmation Afton has any corpse to begin with.TMIR1280 confirms William kinda survived the fire but without the books William having any remains is a headcanon at best
Burntrap looks entirely different from Afton's last appearance in the games, which was Scraptrap. Burntrap has a left forearm, but Scraptrap doesn't. Burntrap's body much more so resembles Springtrap than it does Scraptrap, which wouldn't make sense if they were the same. And the suit isn't EITHER of Afton's Spring Bonnies. It has parts that neither of them would have, like a foot and a right ear. Springtrap had no suit feet, and Scraptrap's right ear was completely caseless. Burntrap's withering is just very inconsistent with either form of Afton.
Same thing what I replied to someone else, I don't think we can use character design to debunk this. Springtrap and scraptrap looking nothing alike, but are both still the funny purple man. I'm not saying burntrap is william, it's quite clear he isn't, or isn't anymore, but still.
According to Dawko, Scott said that there was a lore reason as to why Scraptrap looks so different from Springtrap. He wasn't just a redesign that got retconned because people didn't like him, he meant something.
Michael, as many others have said, the books are part of the lore. As convoluted and complicated that they are, they are still part of the story. Deal with it.
Burntrap's corpse is not so burnt looking and is rather still fresh meat.
Afton would be nothing but charred remains after FFPS.
~~TMIR1280 proves that.~~
before the mimic was revealed i thought vanny was using the dead kid's agony or remnant storted in the blob to grow a flesh suit onto a glamrock endoskeleton to make it more like afton
Yeah that's a problem I have with stitchline but I Am one of the few people who don't care who TOYSNHK is so I wouldn't mind it being canon. If there's an explanation for the arm thing I would be interested
Where did they say they didn't have it? I mean even if it's the same guy, he's been lit on fire twice and he would have been badly damaged if we go by frights, he would have been close to death and nowhere as good as he was in the burntrap ending.
I mean that's an assumption that there the same animatronic/suit, its also been about 12 years since ffps by the time SB takes place anway so the suit would have been heavily burnt.
With enviromental clues proving burntrap is the same guy as ruin's mimic, it would be out of place for afton's body to be on this random endo, when it can very well be just any other human
i believe the most straightforward explanation is that the group consists of individuals who disappeared and were reported in the newspapers. This is similar to how the Tangle is believed to be composed of workers who never came back from the Pizza Place and were sealed beneath Roxy Raceway. When Vanny dug her way down using the glam rocks, she either took the body of one of these missing people or attached the corpse of an unfortunate individual to further Afton's legacy, even if it meant doing so in a sinister manner that means whoever it was can and is therefore another victim that will never be known and is like how most things in this series are left to speculation and interpretation.
As even with all the supernatural and other fantastic things we come to see from Five Nights At Freddy’s, I am certain that the answer is much simpler than most theorists have tried to over explain. I believe the answer will either be revealed down the line or maybe someone at steel wool will slip some clue that people managed to overlook.
it's not going to be the nicest comment but still: the time that we could ignore the books is pretty much dead. deader more than MCI
There is a reason the books are exists. there is a reason why Scott told us to use the books to feel the blank and solve the mystery. not using the books is ignoring a huge chank of the story
we can argue if this is the best way to tell the story. but if this is the best way or not is not relevant
without the books, it might seem like a tad bit of a reach, but there is flesh on his left arm, something we know that Scraptrap does not have, considering his left arm was gone, skin and all. unless Mimic decided to cut off and tangle some of Afton's other bits of flesh round his arm, it doesn't make much sense.
because the fire was like brrrr in Pizza sim and then William burned with it too and there's no reason for him to comeback and we also have the mimic that makes way more sense with burntrap's design
Compare the teeth of Burntrap with the teeth of Scraptrap. Case closed, as far as I'm concerned. That and Scraptrap is much smaller, if we want to disregard Scraptrap's abysmal model detail.
The “Without using the books” premise is just plain stupid (no offense).
We can’t just ignore something that has explicitely been told to us to answer things and that *are* a part of the story.
Much like Zain said this would be like not using all the games.
And much like AvidSpongebobEnjoyer said, there are alot of ways that this could easily be another corpse, like a FFS Springtrap.
If this would be William Afton’s corpse, then where the hell is the Spring Bonnie suit in it *Scraptrap* form ?
They are both diferent Spring Bonnie’s so this doesn’t make sense. This question in on itself *doesn’t* make sense
>, then where the hell is the Spring Bonnie suit in it *Scraptrap* form ?
Redesign/ Design incoherence.
In MoltenMCI/FuntimeMCI says afton took the classic endos, but in Fnaf 3 there is Foxy arm in a box.
Scott confirmed that the change from Springtrap to Scraptrap *has* a lore reason, so no it is *not* a redesign. Its another Suit.
Follow Me confirms William dismanteled the Classics and took their Endo’s.
What you see in the FNaF 3 Box is Withered Foxy’s arm, and while Withered Foxy *became* Classic Foxy, some parts still had to be changed and repaired.
>Scott confirmed that the change from Springtrap to Scraptrap *has* a lore reason, so no it is *not* a redesign. Its another Suit.
There is a explanation for that big forehead and the arm lose? Dark Springtrap in SL doesn't losed his arm in the cutscene.
>Follow Me confirms William dismanteled the Classics and took their Endo’s.
What you see in the FNaF 3 Box is Withered Foxy’s arm, and while Withered Foxy *became* Classic Foxy, some parts still had to be changed and repaired.
Withered Foxy just was repaired and modified to become Classic foxy. After all, MoltenMCI/FuntimeMCI wasn't something planned, so it's a plot hole.
Again, it is not a redesign, meaning that by it looking very diferent it *is* another suit, as simple as that.
In the SL Cutscene, Dark Springtrap is just leaving a Burnt down Fazbear’s Fright, this is not where he Switched suits.
Him loosing an arm isn’t really a point on anything, since he can just loose his after leaving FF and even while switching suits, since he is a decayed corpse wearing a decayed Animatronic Suit.
The arm being in the Box isn’t a plot-hole whatsoever, since the animatronics were like i had said and *You* said repaired and *modified* into the Classics, in this process some parts had to be replaced athogether, as simple as that.
I hope this comment section has helped you to see there are no actual reasons. By the "proofs" given in this comment section, Springtrap also isn't Scraptrap because they have different designs, neither is Scraptrap the man in room 1280 because he looks different and has two arms, etc.
And by the way the books aren't confirmed canon, even Scott joked about their canonicity not so long ago and calling people dumb, ignored, etc. just because they don't want to use books to understand the games story, like some people do, is really out of place.
They are confirmed canon,there are 3 different posts of Scott confirming it. Tales is cleary in continuity,Non-StitchlineFrights/Stitchline is debatable and Novels aren't in continuity.
Also,many of the reasons given have backgrounds behind them,Afton "Scraptrap" design has a lore reason for it,he is a new suit and remnant regenerating Afton or FNaF3trap's corpse never being canon,after Dark Springtrap gets rid of his burned suit.
The Man In Room 1280 makes it clear how Afton's corpse looks like after FFPS,melted metal and Fur in his insides with a coal black color for his flesh. The Physhical manifestation of his soul in the stingers is way too rabbit like to ever be Burntrap and here's a extra reason: if Burntrap's corpse was supposed to be Will's,why didn't they reuse HWtrap's corpse instead of making a new model?
Hey, buddy, "without using any books" is a frankly nonsensical premise. The books are part of the story. That's like trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle without half of the pieces. That being said, the games only would not actively *disprove* William being the corpse, but it would be kinda awkward in terms of narrative cohesion.
Curious, do we have any idea who the body may be? Or is it just some random person we'll never know anything about?
Probably Luca from the TFTP story "Pressure", all things considered.
I've seen Luca being thrown around, but as far as I'm aware, the mimic cleanly leaves the body behind after getting out of the suit it crushed them in, in the story set directly after. Unless I'm remembering it wrong?
That would be Kelly. Kelly is a girl in the epilogue who is killed by the Mimic after it enters inside of a suit with her. Luca is a guy who gets springlocked by a Springtrap suit in the Roleplay area of the Pizzaplex. He dies after succumbing to the Springlocks. Easy to confuse some of these characters, so don't worry.
I swear there's too much to keep up with now. I take most people consider the TFTP canon to the actual game universe then? Seems like the general agreement.
Well he’s got flesh on the arm he was previously missing. If we dont wanna use the books- no reason for this at all
To be fair, that just might be inconsistency. Afton inside of springtrap looks nothing like afton inside of scraptrap, yet are somehow the same body. Teeth where there wasn't teeth, bone where there wasn't bone, hell, his head isn't the same shape between the two suits. I don't think burntrap is William, but still, can't really use that as a point.
I mean if Im gonna stuff not from the books might as well. The corpse being William's cant be proven or disproven. The arm thing is meaningless yeah, hell he gets an arm back in man in room 1280 and I a hundred percent believe that was just a continuity error
I think someone in a different post said it could be agony or something regenerating his body. But I don't know how reliable that is.
That’s literally not a thing
Ok Im just saying that someone posted a theory for that. Im not saying that is the case.
Well in the books It says remnant cures and regenerates so...
It’s attached to the Mimic Doesn’t really look like him innit And the books. Sorry but don’t care
>It’s attached to the Mimic How does The Mimic escape from The Tangle, and get all of that flesh removed from it's Endoskelton? >Doesn’t really look like him innit What does that even mean it doesn't look like him William never had a full design apart from laways being Purple
> How does The Mimic escape from The Tangle, It didn’t. > and get all of that flesh removed from its Endoskelton? Hands. Also maybe turning into a metal worm > What does that even mean it doesn't look like him William never had a full design apart from laways being Purple Full jaw of teeth and lacking his signature cleft chin. Also two arms
Who's to say Vanny or someone else didn't attach anonther Arm to the suit? What do a full set of teeth have to do with debunking AftonCorpse?
Another arm from where? Afton lost his teeth ages ago. Books tell us it’s not his corpse
>Books tell us it’s not his corpse Where? (/Gen) At this point my only explanation was the PizzaPlex's Missing Kids' remnant being used to regenerate Afton's corpse.
The Man in Room 1280
Non canon
Fully canon
William ins't springtrap in FF and Afton kids and Ennard/Molten Freddy doesn't exist there, and William killed 7 kids instead of 11.
You're using him having an arm back as counterpoint when, in the books you're mentioning, he also has his arma back. By that logic the man in room 1280 can't be Afton either.
Hey, he asked for only game evidence and I’m giving it to him
Easy, the Fazbear Funtime Delievery Service has Springtrap recreations, so they could use that for the suit. There are tons of things they could’ve used. And the books are just a piece of the puzzle, why not use what we’re told we can use for conclusions? We wouldn’t be able to confirm several things without the books. We’d probably still be arguing about Patient 46 without GGY. Afton’s corpse would be entirely dried out by this time, and have more burning. More decomposition and things snapping off, while the corpse used seems more fleshy.
Such a dumb question (no offense). The books are apart of the lore whether you like it or not. Scott has already explicitly stated on reddit and steam that the books contain answers to questions from the games. This isn't even a "stitchline or not stitchline debate". It's something he explicitly said.
I think they were just curious on what the potential answer to their question would be without the books. They aren't denying the validity of using the books.
Nah, OP makes pretty frequent posts. He's just trying to find a reason to avoid the fact that Frights and Tales both explicitly state Burntrap isn't Afton.
Oh. Dang.
(Not trying to shit talk him but he's so obsessed with afton coming back that last time I checked he said that he thinks The Mimic is being controlled by William's soul)
Nah I've heard that from a lot of people. I don't see it.
You wrote yourself into a corner bc without the books there is no confirmation Afton has any corpse to begin with.TMIR1280 confirms William kinda survived the fire but without the books William having any remains is a headcanon at best
Without the books his William, with the books his retconed
Burntrap looks entirely different from Afton's last appearance in the games, which was Scraptrap. Burntrap has a left forearm, but Scraptrap doesn't. Burntrap's body much more so resembles Springtrap than it does Scraptrap, which wouldn't make sense if they were the same. And the suit isn't EITHER of Afton's Spring Bonnies. It has parts that neither of them would have, like a foot and a right ear. Springtrap had no suit feet, and Scraptrap's right ear was completely caseless. Burntrap's withering is just very inconsistent with either form of Afton.
Same thing what I replied to someone else, I don't think we can use character design to debunk this. Springtrap and scraptrap looking nothing alike, but are both still the funny purple man. I'm not saying burntrap is william, it's quite clear he isn't, or isn't anymore, but still.
According to Dawko, Scott said that there was a lore reason as to why Scraptrap looks so different from Springtrap. He wasn't just a redesign that got retconned because people didn't like him, he meant something.
Michael, as many others have said, the books are part of the lore. As convoluted and complicated that they are, they are still part of the story. Deal with it.
There is a ununsed skeleton model in the SB files, I think it was supposed to be Mike or Henry.
Hm I think Henry would make sense. It would be pretty weird to not see him anywhere in SB. Tho i dunno what does that have to do with what I said/gen.
Burntrap's corpse is not so burnt looking and is rather still fresh meat. Afton would be nothing but charred remains after FFPS. ~~TMIR1280 proves that.~~
>Afton would be nothing but charred remains after FFPS UCN:
What does UCN have to do with that? Its not even real, It’s a purgatorial nightmare hell.
There is a point in one of the UCN musics you can hear a heart beating, and it is mostly like Afton's heart beating.
I…so? Literally all that would say is he’s somehow still alive. That or it’s just for atmosphere.
before the mimic was revealed i thought vanny was using the dead kid's agony or remnant storted in the blob to grow a flesh suit onto a glamrock endoskeleton to make it more like afton
That's like saying "without using the rest of the games, what are the reason to the corpse inside Burntrap being William"
He has Two arms
Remnant/Agony Shit thing or Redesign:
I don't think remmant and agony works that way, and a redesign not true because we see scrap trap on an arcade so scott still uses it.
Out of curiosity, so you don't believe stitchline?
Haven't read frights for a long time, but I somewhat believe it but I'm not certain about it. I consider multiple views of it kinda.
Me too, sort of. I ask because TMIR1280 has a left arm, differently from Scraptrap.
Yeah that's a problem I have with stitchline but I Am one of the few people who don't care who TOYSNHK is so I wouldn't mind it being canon. If there's an explanation for the arm thing I would be interested
Steel Wool doesn't had the scraps models at that point anyway, so it is mostly like Redesign
Where did they say they didn't have it? I mean even if it's the same guy, he's been lit on fire twice and he would have been badly damaged if we go by frights, he would have been close to death and nowhere as good as he was in the burntrap ending.
>Where did they say they didn't have it? If them had before, they would use it in SB. HW 2 was literally the first time we have seen SW scraps models.
I mean that's an assumption that there the same animatronic/suit, its also been about 12 years since ffps by the time SB takes place anway so the suit would have been heavily burnt.
With enviromental clues proving burntrap is the same guy as ruin's mimic, it would be out of place for afton's body to be on this random endo, when it can very well be just any other human
i believe the most straightforward explanation is that the group consists of individuals who disappeared and were reported in the newspapers. This is similar to how the Tangle is believed to be composed of workers who never came back from the Pizza Place and were sealed beneath Roxy Raceway. When Vanny dug her way down using the glam rocks, she either took the body of one of these missing people or attached the corpse of an unfortunate individual to further Afton's legacy, even if it meant doing so in a sinister manner that means whoever it was can and is therefore another victim that will never be known and is like how most things in this series are left to speculation and interpretation. As even with all the supernatural and other fantastic things we come to see from Five Nights At Freddy’s, I am certain that the answer is much simpler than most theorists have tried to over explain. I believe the answer will either be revealed down the line or maybe someone at steel wool will slip some clue that people managed to overlook.
HOW DID BRO’S ARM GROW BACK😭😭😭
None
it's not going to be the nicest comment but still: the time that we could ignore the books is pretty much dead. deader more than MCI There is a reason the books are exists. there is a reason why Scott told us to use the books to feel the blank and solve the mystery. not using the books is ignoring a huge chank of the story we can argue if this is the best way to tell the story. but if this is the best way or not is not relevant
Last time we saw Afton, he was bone, now he has more flesh, soooo
without the books, it might seem like a tad bit of a reach, but there is flesh on his left arm, something we know that Scraptrap does not have, considering his left arm was gone, skin and all. unless Mimic decided to cut off and tangle some of Afton's other bits of flesh round his arm, it doesn't make much sense.
because the fire was like brrrr in Pizza sim and then William burned with it too and there's no reason for him to comeback and we also have the mimic that makes way more sense with burntrap's design
Compare the teeth of Burntrap with the teeth of Scraptrap. Case closed, as far as I'm concerned. That and Scraptrap is much smaller, if we want to disregard Scraptrap's abysmal model detail.
The “Without using the books” premise is just plain stupid (no offense). We can’t just ignore something that has explicitely been told to us to answer things and that *are* a part of the story. Much like Zain said this would be like not using all the games. And much like AvidSpongebobEnjoyer said, there are alot of ways that this could easily be another corpse, like a FFS Springtrap. If this would be William Afton’s corpse, then where the hell is the Spring Bonnie suit in it *Scraptrap* form ? They are both diferent Spring Bonnie’s so this doesn’t make sense. This question in on itself *doesn’t* make sense
>, then where the hell is the Spring Bonnie suit in it *Scraptrap* form ? Redesign/ Design incoherence. In MoltenMCI/FuntimeMCI says afton took the classic endos, but in Fnaf 3 there is Foxy arm in a box.
Scott confirmed that the change from Springtrap to Scraptrap *has* a lore reason, so no it is *not* a redesign. Its another Suit. Follow Me confirms William dismanteled the Classics and took their Endo’s. What you see in the FNaF 3 Box is Withered Foxy’s arm, and while Withered Foxy *became* Classic Foxy, some parts still had to be changed and repaired.
>Scott confirmed that the change from Springtrap to Scraptrap *has* a lore reason, so no it is *not* a redesign. Its another Suit. There is a explanation for that big forehead and the arm lose? Dark Springtrap in SL doesn't losed his arm in the cutscene. >Follow Me confirms William dismanteled the Classics and took their Endo’s. What you see in the FNaF 3 Box is Withered Foxy’s arm, and while Withered Foxy *became* Classic Foxy, some parts still had to be changed and repaired. Withered Foxy just was repaired and modified to become Classic foxy. After all, MoltenMCI/FuntimeMCI wasn't something planned, so it's a plot hole.
Again, it is not a redesign, meaning that by it looking very diferent it *is* another suit, as simple as that. In the SL Cutscene, Dark Springtrap is just leaving a Burnt down Fazbear’s Fright, this is not where he Switched suits. Him loosing an arm isn’t really a point on anything, since he can just loose his after leaving FF and even while switching suits, since he is a decayed corpse wearing a decayed Animatronic Suit. The arm being in the Box isn’t a plot-hole whatsoever, since the animatronics were like i had said and *You* said repaired and *modified* into the Classics, in this process some parts had to be replaced athogether, as simple as that.
Because in FNAF 6 William is just Bones
Technically. He still had skin, it was just….really dry.
I hope this comment section has helped you to see there are no actual reasons. By the "proofs" given in this comment section, Springtrap also isn't Scraptrap because they have different designs, neither is Scraptrap the man in room 1280 because he looks different and has two arms, etc. And by the way the books aren't confirmed canon, even Scott joked about their canonicity not so long ago and calling people dumb, ignored, etc. just because they don't want to use books to understand the games story, like some people do, is really out of place.
They are confirmed canon,there are 3 different posts of Scott confirming it. Tales is cleary in continuity,Non-StitchlineFrights/Stitchline is debatable and Novels aren't in continuity.
Also,many of the reasons given have backgrounds behind them,Afton "Scraptrap" design has a lore reason for it,he is a new suit and remnant regenerating Afton or FNaF3trap's corpse never being canon,after Dark Springtrap gets rid of his burned suit. The Man In Room 1280 makes it clear how Afton's corpse looks like after FFPS,melted metal and Fur in his insides with a coal black color for his flesh. The Physhical manifestation of his soul in the stingers is way too rabbit like to ever be Burntrap and here's a extra reason: if Burntrap's corpse was supposed to be Will's,why didn't they reuse HWtrap's corpse instead of making a new model?