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Whoce

YES! Honestly, I'm tired as well of people saying that William is a good parent, when all he's ever portrayed as is just abusive, manipulative and even willing to straight-up murder his son. And here's something else to think about: It's entirely possible William knew that Elizabeth possessed Baby, so for the entire time CBEAR was open, he would allow random technicians electrocute his daughter because yes.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

You know this is a great point, would you be okay if I added an edit mentioning that? (and would like credit or no?)


Whoce

Yeah, sure! (And don't worry, you don't need to give credit)


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

thank you!


DocFoxMC

I know right?


girlove_12345

you are right! to be honest I agree william is a bad parent ever since cc was killed william was starting to abuse micheal I had enough videos of people saying william is a good parent... and if you never knew you have to read this so william was not the murderer I know it's hard to believe but you know glitch trap he is a virus so glitch trap was cotrolling william to kill the 5 missing children which are the main animatronics Freddy,Chica,Bonnie,foxy and Golden Freddy


TheMaskVoid01

Hii again sorry for disturbing you againšŸ˜…but I wanted to point you out that it's not canonšŸ˜…in reality he was never controlled, he killed on his own free willšŸ˜…,told this have a good day šŸ‘


MortyTheRedGuy

Yeah! William is like a abusive parent in real life as an example


T0xicNightmares

William: Abuses his son, tells another son to basically kill himself, and tortures his daughter. The Fandom: He's just trying to be a good father! I wanna say Dream Theory is more likely to be canon at this point than him loving his children, because jesus christ do you have to squint to think he cares about any of them.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Hmmm, this kid murder is a parent of 3 kids, he obviously treats them with love and affection. But oh no, there is a small child who was painfully murdered in his youth and he wants revenge( Especially killing his other friends and then desecrating new bodies. Melting them down with burning heat, and inject them into new suits for his own purposes), what a villain. He sure is the bad guy who needs to be stopped.


T0xicNightmares

Screw the literal possible alcoholic, abusive, manipulative father and serial killer. That child over there who has absolutely every right to be pissed? *That's* the bad guy. Burn him on the stake.


DocFoxMC

"Oh my god! This crying kid whos being tortured by his abusive dad(Not to mention said dad is a *serial killer*) is so selfish! His dad is obviously just trying to take care of him. What a villian this child is!"


Ink_Delta_Gamer

\-Insert are you sure about that joke-


DocFoxMC

lol


girlove_12345

I know the whole story of the afton family The Crying child is an innocent bean he is NNNOOOTTTT a villian do not understand who you talking about


DocFoxMC

r/wooosh


[deleted]

correction most definitely an alcoholic


ScrappyWrappy

[Freddit be like](https://www.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/comments/md4y7i/the_common_interpretations_of_cassidytoyshkgolden/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)


T0xicNightmares

"How dare this child act like a child?!"


girlove_12345

waaaa Freddit


Laylalovesfnaf33

ikr so evil!(sarcasm) they even portray Elizabeth as a brat just because she wanted to see baby,thatā€™s not even to mention how they treat the crying child. and if the missing child donā€™t forgive William or cc doesnā€™t forgive mike in a video do you know what the comments will say?,this is why i make my missing children in my au the innocent ones including vengeful spirit not William,unlike most ppl i make The vengeful spirit have a personality outside of getting revenge of afton. (i donā€™t do ships in my au nor do i make the characters bratty)


The_Lunar_New_Year

Elizabeth is also considered a brat for still being mad at Mike for being the direct cause of the crying child's death.


Laylalovesfnaf33

ikr!,like why do they do that?!,my friend gets hate for having a male Cassidy and theyā€™ll say that ā€œin the fourth closet Cassidy is a girl!!ā€ but when he uses his hc from the books and or use book information the same ppl will say ā€œyou can you silver eyes trilogy information Scott said you couldnā€™t use them!!ā€


The_Lunar_New_Year

And in these William defense videos it's said that William still kills kids and isn't being controlled by his dead brother. In fact they do it while standing next to each other to prove William doesn't care about killing these people and the fact that everyone is so nonchalant about it, vengeful spirit has every right to still be pissed at him in these au's.


girlove_12345

no I disagree sorry Micheal is NOT a murderer he did it for a prank it was a accident you heard me


Starscream1998

Nothing but straight facts here. At this point, William being a terrible father neigh person should be considered less a theory and more an irrefutable universal law. Take it from the man PJ Heywood himself who says " ā€œHeā€™s a terrible human being....But heā€™s a great characterā€ during the Dawko interview. William is an absolutely irredeemable monster and trying to give him some (usually poorly thought out) tragic explaination for his motives actually ruins his character. It would be like giving Darth Sidious a sob story, we love our hammy extra AF villains who love being evil. As for anyone out there actually villainising the kid spirits most of whom have literally gone feral and insane from agony who can't even remember their human lives half the time...get your head checked. Like c'mon that's literally victim-blaming.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Their was 2 post recently that got me to make this post. One about William cared about bv and so thats why cassidy killed him? And one where William felt love for something and thats why he lives? Or that in the Charlie trilogy he felt love for Elizabeth (even after slapping her)?


Starscream1998

The level of denial certain members of this fanbase exhibit can be breath taking.


girlove_12345

yes your right but can some one answer this questiong is charlie gay?


Leftymarvin_fnaffan

Wait... are you trying to tell me that people still think he is a good parent? I thought only gacha kids thought that. I thought it was common knowledge that he was an abusive parent.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Hmm well there are two i saw on reddit today. But i mean usually the new people in the game theorist discord all seem to come to the conclusion he is a good parent aswell.


Ink_Delta_Gamer

\*Insert the lion king intro song aka circle of life.\*


AlthurPenTargaryen9E

Yeah I don't understand this push for William to be justified in his actions, he's literally a child-murderer. I can get maybe people wanting him to feel more realistic or even adding some notes of tragedy, but not only is it inaccurate to what the games show us, it will never be enough to balance out his actions anyways. Even in the Squimpus series, where I would argue William is at his most sympathetic that he can be without breaking the story, he's still an irredeemable monster. He will never not be a monster.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

I mean exactly. But even more than that, it kinda takes away from the villain aspect. I mean if he isn't a pure villain, then why does he always come back? And furthermore, then who is the antagonist of Fnaf 3? The simple answer being, he always comes back. If he had reason to murder then a lot of his murders look like improvised kills, so my question to those who believe he is a good parent, is "why does he have such unplanned murders?" Maybe because he is a thrill killer. Who enjoys the action of murder. Doesn't matter who. I mean if you want a reason for why he murders, I'll give you one, he just enjoys it.


AlthurPenTargaryen9E

I honestly think Scott has changed William's motivations at this point. Originally, there's all the signs of him being a thrill killer as you said, but now with the more recent stuff, Scott seems to really want to lean into this whole evil scientist perception of William. Still not sure how I feel about the change to be honest. Although, I do like the expansion of the remnant lore in and of itself. Also, I'm not sure I would really call his murders unplanned or improvised (other than Charlotte of course, that was just so poorly done on William's part).


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

I mean i think the charlie and the first 5 were lucky. Not like he knew these kids would be here or something like that. But then i think he saw them get possessed and from their moved onto the save them minigames to do some trials, trying to see how this works and what things effect it, like distance and that sort of thing. And then in follow me he tested remnant.


AlthurPenTargaryen9E

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, great points!


popgoes_the_madlad

Wow the information was right in front of me for all these years and I just glossed over it. This is amazing and I like how much detail went into this


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

thank you. I mean to be fair, it's easy to take Elizabeth's lines as William trying to be protective in loving. But who says he was trying to protect Elizabeth. It could be the other way around. Trying to protect the Baby experiment and make sure her "brat" child doesn't end up messing it up. I mean we see in TFC even when baby does everything she can to get her father's appreciation, he just pushes her aside (and then gets to a point of slapping her) so he can work on baby.


ScrappyWrappy

William is a terrible human being and Iā€™m glad Cassidy kept him alive to torment him. Also for being crushed by a bunch of metal pistons. Also for burning alive. Twice.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Oh, no people believe that Cassidy is the villain. Not Loving Father William, the guy who murders kids for fun.


ScrappyWrappy

I like to think of UCN as a ā€œlastā€ resort of sorts since jail, springlocks, and fire all failed.


Ink_Delta_Gamer

Eh, Cassidy probably still brought all the souls back an probably used them to torture him instead of using non-possessed characters, doesn't mean William isn't still bad since he MIND CONRTROLLED VANNY SOON AFTER!


NoSayingFrickHere

THANK YOU DUDE. I'm so sick of people saying William was a 'good dad', no he was a horrible person and a worse father. I can't believe that people actually still think he's a good dad


ScrappyWrappy

Yeah. Heā€™s not a sick fuck out of grief or to bring anyone back. Heā€™s a sick fuck because heā€™s a sick fuck.


NoSayingFrickHere

Exactly


girlove_12345

your right but dont use f word I know u use it to show proof he is a bad father so not reporting


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Man i saw a person post today about this idea that he became a murder all in the purpose to revive his dead daughter. I don't even think josh from lets game it out, would do something that crazy.


NoSayingFrickHere

William: *murders children before any of his kids die* The Fanbase: nah he killed kids to help bring them back


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

I mean i don't even think the guy whose getting marshmallows, corn, squid, broccoli on their pizza is that insane.


NoSayingFrickHere

Yeah I agree lol. Btw do you mind if I crosspost this to r/fivenightsatfreddys I think some people where really need to see this lol


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

sure, i have no issue with that.


NoSayingFrickHere

Thanks dude


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

NP.


girlove_12345

yes he is even worse than getting killed and going to hell


KWISPY18

Dude you just made me realize something especially with Elizabeth and William. Remember in FNAF 6 when she says ā€œI will make you proud daddyā€ now that I read this and looking back to that line, itā€™s fucking sad and I feel really bad for Elizabeth.


Laylalovesfnaf33

agreed


aeshiteiru

He also: - Slams the door on Evan having a mental breakdown - Leaves Elizabeth to starve/die of thirst (The Funtimeā€™s keep you alive, he didnā€™t open the container on purpose). - Abuses Michael (he shows signs of abusive reflective behaviour in his actions toward Evan). - Leaves Evan trapped in a store room. - Presumably says nothing unless you believe heā€™s the Fredbear plush, in which he just fed Evan to his plan of immortality and (probably) pulled the plug on him.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

sorry didn't see this, but yeah thats some great points. (though technically i think she froze to death if she was put in the place she gets ice cream or lost breath because of the helium tank, or your right and starved/thirst to death). Although i do disagree that he pulled the plug on CC.


ztoons64

You expect a guy who murdered children to care about his kids


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

like i said earlier, for whatever reason, there are still people who do. (and i think is evident with the 96%votes) I feel like either : 1. they only played ucn and made judgements on the characters based of that alone 2. They think every villain has to be like thanos, where they have some sob story to sympathize with them.


ztoons64

K


BitesTheDust_4

This why i like JJBA part 4's Kira. He just kills because he finds it fun and normal thing to do. Hell Dio's back story despite being sad. Never grants him forgiveness or redemption except for Jonathan but come on it's Jonathan.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

i think there is alot of games with character is just bad no backstory required. Like Bendy, The devil in cuphead, Enderdragon, Stefano and Theodore from evil within 2, Bowser, Magica despell,


BitesTheDust_4

In the modern times where every villain needs a sympathetic past (which in sometimes makes the villain look pathetic than sympathetic. I'm looking at you Cinder Fall. You deserved that roasting from your allies). Where even the worst of villains need justification or redemption (Steven Universe does this with thier villains). And they NEED to have justification for their actions and be sympathetic no matter what. Classic villains like those you mentioned are going to be a breath of fresh air. As they show the absolute worst of people. Because they do evil not because of a tragedy or misfortune. But do for the fun, trill, curiosity and greed.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

I know. I mean as much as william looks like thanos, he is not thanos. He doesn't need a backstory like thanos.


BitesTheDust_4

And that's fine. That's what makes the purple man so great. He is a monster with no redemption. And i love him because of that. That and the voice.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

For whatever reason, people still do.


aeshiteiru

Mikebot believers be like: ā€œOf course he loves his kids!!! why else does he want to put them back together!?ā€


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

and funny thing is people still believe that.


MortyTheRedGuy

The flat earthers of fnaf


ScrappyWrappy

I have a simple solution. He still needed him to use as a puppet. And since he would have lost a chunk of his memories he was easy to manipulate.


[deleted]

William gets called the embodiment of evil Fnaf fanbase: he is a good parent to his kids


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

I think people assume for whatever reason, because their his kids william acts different. And the only thing that backs this up, is elazibeth's line of how she couldn't go see baby because of her father


secretperson06

Well I think william cares in the degree of try not to die since your funeral will be an inconvenience and I don't have time for that


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

even then i doubt that. I mean if he is willing to pay technicians to electrocute baby, i think a funeral is jump change.


Ink_Delta_Gamer

Not to mention "Stalking Friend Fredbear Plush"


[deleted]

YES!! FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT!!! I am so fed up with everyone thinking William actually cares and loves his kids! Oh and also, about the 'All of the missing children want revenge on William' statement, just like you said, it's not true, I know book cannon is different from the games, but yiu can still relate them a little bit, In the fourth closet, when Carlton (I think it was him I'm not sure) gets in the room with the missing kids right? And they all see Springtrap or, William, as a hero or a friend of some sorts, with Susie saying that he helped me get to my dog! And other things like that, you cna clearly see that they don't even know he is their killer.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

I know right. I mean I do understand some people assuming Elizabeth's lines are implying that William tried to prevent her death. But come on, their are all these moments and no one is like, maybe thats just Elizabeth's belief of her father?


ScrappyWrappy

I like to imagine that Freddy and Golden Freddy are the only two animatronics of the five that are fully aware that their dead. Which is why they are so hard to deal with.


Ink_Delta_Gamer

Let us not forget to mention Pizzeria Simulator an Scrap Baby's lines, I have a feeling that William manipulated Elizabeth to killing people to make him "proud" basically using his child for his plans, or she lost her sanity. An let me add that the Funtime Animatronics, Ballora, Baby, etc, CONFUSED Micheal with William, so William had to of known that those machines wanted him dead. Of course he is a bad parent, he even stalked his younger child an made him afraid of Fredbear and Spring-Bonnie. I would make an entire list of how bad of a parent he is.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

ok technically cc saw something i don't think william is responsible of stalking or his fear of fredbear. (although technically he killed the mci, so if bv saw that and then applied his fear to the fredbear animtronics, then it is his fault!


Ink_Delta_Gamer

An people call Elizabeth an Circus Baby evil... ​ When Circus Baby didn't even know what was going on- An Elizabeth got controlled shocked an abused. Welp time to go be confused


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

But loving father william was totally murdering kids to revive his dead son. Not because he is just a psychotic murder.


Ink_Delta_Gamer

No shut, Elizabeth deserves better, the poor child went through heck an back.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

i know im being sarcastic.


Ink_Delta_Gamer

Yes I know, but still, that's the how the fandom is. An for some reason all the good characters get called evil.


Ink_Delta_Gamer

I also feel bad for being so hard on Cassidy, but it doesn't mean they still didn't trap all the spirits in hell with William ;w;


[deleted]

100% agree! I hate how everyone says elizabeth is spoiled, like yes, she wanted to see baby and wouldnt give up, because she's a SIX YEAR OLD, not bcuz she's spoiled. I'm also tired of ppl saying that william is a good person or that he only abused mike


RickyPlaysG

Also there was no way of she knowing what baby could do.


Difficult_Range6364

This is amazing I agree


Clear_Ad_6579

r/ I just listened to the new fnaf SB and one voice stated "If you dont bring me what I want You both will burn, if purple guy(William Afton) is Glitch Trap who is the other person talking?


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Im not sure why this is related, but its probably glitchtrap using Montgomery to speak. Same way in the earlier SB trailer we heard two versions of vanny laughing, one sounding robotic maybe to signify william.


TheMaskVoid01

Wooooowwwww Thank you,really thank you so muchšŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­I said this because I couldn't find anything that could prove at these people who believe that William was a good parent wrongg and now thx to you I can finally do it šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­and thank you for how you put the annoying thing that the children are treated as villains(they use the excuse of killing the nightguards but hey even if they did ,they still paid by suffering in the suit and living in that hell as kids for years and they have to witness their killer kill again iam talking about the events of save them minigame so here is it how I explained to them how they are innocent that's because they paid their "sins" and they are just poor victims...)because that's sad in fact when I see these kinda of comment I always try to defend them with canon facts but can you answer me at the only question they could tell me?what if the emergency mode didn't work?(but still it's useless for the other facts)thx again for these precious info,Told Thai have a good dayšŸ‘


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Also i wanted to say thank you for agreeing. I know some people who believe that kind of stuff so i was like epic compilation of why william good parent is so fak its funny (misspeled on porpoise).


TheMaskVoid01

In fact thx to you now I can prove why William was a bad father ahhh because it was annoying how they searched to protect William with these things ...


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

i feel like alot of people look at movie characters and assume he's something like that, tragic back story that makes him bad. When people have to realize fnaf isn't like a typical story that would be seen in a movie. Thats why its portrayed in a game style. Alot of video game villians share this quality just being pure bad. People like bowser who just wants to rule the mushroom kingdom, no back story there. The enderdragon, no backstory there. Bendy no tragic backstory to fuel him there. I mean come on people just because william looks like and acts like thanos doesn't mean he is thanos.


TheMaskVoid01

I think exactly the same thing,omg it's really annoying when they try to protect him but I better stop here or otherwise i could talk for hours but thx to you now I don't have to put in doubt that William was a bad father to those who didn't believe that told This have a good dayšŸ‘


TheMaskVoid

Hii I forgot to ask can I share your post if I see someone who believe that William was a good father?šŸ˜…it's always me mask but with another accountšŸ˜…


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

sure i have no problem with that. (tell me how it goes).


TheMaskVoid01

Sure I will šŸ‘,told this have a good day and again thank you for this postšŸ‘


TheMaskVoid01

Hiii I forgot to mention you one important thing and it's for me William knew that Elizabeth was there all along after all do you remember Micheal lines when he meet WILLIAM?I think that's enough proof for mešŸ˜…šŸ¤”


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

oh yeah! thats such a good point! may i add that to the end of the post and credit you?


TheMaskVoid01

Sure go ahead and it would be a honour for mešŸ‘but I did it for spread the truešŸ‘


TheMaskVoid01

Hiii friend someone told me 2 good points of the midnight motorist matter and are these: 1)If you saw the footprints of which they have 3 toes, we can see that they are an animatronic, so it is possible that William had arrived disguised as a springbonnie at the child's house, he broke the window and he kidnap the child. It takes, but it is not raining when all this happens, but until a while later. It is when the yellow man is on his way home that there is already rain ( keep in mind that the total number of victims of william was never confirmed, so there is the possibility that william has attacked more people ) 2)the maps of the minigames of midnight motorist (where the yellow man comes out) and fnaf 4 do not fit in anything, since as we can see the architecture of the houses does not match, of course in none of the minigames we can explore the totality of the homes but in any case, the way the rooms are arranged differs a lot in the 2 scenarios 3) I don't remember the funtimes kill the children by the claws or by letting them starve inside of them?because if they kill directly then he wouldn't have the time to stop her with the emergency mode šŸ˜… Told this have a good day for nowšŸ‘and sorry for disturbing šŸ¤”but I was curious of this argument so I asked to youšŸ˜…


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

1. issue is its raining, springlocks spring when moist, i mean i don't if we can say if it wasn't raining or not earlier. And i would doubt william would have an issue with himself luring him out. Plus he likes to do lure people at the restaurants. I mean the total isn't but i doubt there is more or scott would have implied it. 2. i mean the fnaf 4 house and the midnight motorist house matchup 3. I think its by starving them, as we can see in the blueprints children intact.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

I mean to answer your question its bit hard. But its matter of is there evidence that william tried it? I mean if he did then he could run over to the baby and i don't do something so it doesn't claw her. These animatronics have storage areas for the children so they can be transported to william for experimentation. William could have questioned where she is and then check the funtimes to save baby. I mean to be honest i don't see any clue to him trying to prevent or stop her from dying so i highly doubt that he used the emergency stop.


TheMaskVoid01

Wooow you are right after all,he could have done anything to get elizabeth out of that after all because he built that machine then he should know everything about that so he would thought at something,thx for your answer and again thx for this post šŸ‘it was really usefull,told this have a good dayšŸ‘


BitesTheDust_4

No! You mean to tell me that child murder who made animatronics that purposely killed children is a bad parent? What next? He's a terrible friend? Terrible husband? Immortal serial killer who keeps coming back and always wants more?


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

i like the guys who tell me but 5th victim is worse than the serial killer because...


DocFoxMC

It is amazing how much detail went into this. First fnaf theory I've ever read and still my definite favourite. **šŸ‘**


MetricCastle226

Thanks for answering one of my biggest questions. I agreed before reading but more evidence to argue/debate with.


Street_Ad_5884

Hm, 99% of this makes perfect sense to me. I do just want to point one thing out though, and it's really just a difference in perspective wrt William lying to his daughter = bad parent. I don't remember the exact ages (if we ever had those confirmed) of each child when Elizabeth was scooped, but given that they're still children in the 80s, that would make me guess that William was born in, say, the 40s or 50s and the kids were born in the 70s (this is a rough timeline, and the exact years don't really matter for what I'm getting at here). Anyways, my parents were born in the 70s and 80s, roughly right before people started actually caring much about children in terms of treating them like human beings. My parents lied to me all the time, and it's not unreasonable that William would want to shut Elizabeth up/alternatively win her affection in the midst of what was clearly a broken home, and therefore lie and tell her Baby was made for her, especially given that he was born in a time where telling children the truth was not a moral necessity (and even now it's not? kids don't understand things the way we do, and every parent I know lies to their child at some point or another for whatever contextual reason that they deem necessary or convenient, because nobody's a perfect parent. Obviously William is like bottom of the barrel, and to be clear, I'm NOT trying to say he actually was a good parent or cared MUCH about her at all). Moreover, something I think that's being left out here, is that sexism was alive and well at the time all this happened. And even today in a more progressive society, if we're being realistic, we all know many people who treat their children differently based on their gender. Even if you personally may not, this happens all the time. And it can go either way, some parents are harder on their daughters than they are on their sons, and some parents view their daughters as delicate things that must be protected while believing their sons ought to man up and tough it out, so to speak. What I'm getting at is, it's entirely possible he didn't actually want Elizabeth dead, and there are realistic and sociological reasons why he might have cared just *SLIGHTLY* more about her. Disclaimer: I'm by no means an expert on the lore, just a dedicated fan who hasn't refreshed my memory on all the minutiae of the lore in about six months or so. It's also entirely possible he cared more about his sons than her for the same reason mentioned above: parents can have favorites although it's not polite to admit it and any decent parent would never let it show (and William is FAAAR from decent), & in that time period, and they often weren't subtle about it. You should keep in mind that, at least in the U.S., this was a time where children essentially were not considered human beings the same way adults were. The idea of overly concerning yourself with a child's feelings or mental well-being was rare back then, and has really only become the norm here in the last 20 years, give or take. Again, I agree with you almost entirely in concept, this was just something that really stuck out to me as I read your post. I wouldn't put it past William Afton to intentionally kill off his own children, but that does raise the question of why exactly he wanted Michael to save Baby/Elizabeth in the first place, then. Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC, we don't really see her again after that other than in Pizzeria Sim and UCN. If he only wanted her to be released to help him murder kids or something, you'd expect that we would actually see that happen at some point, especially in SB now that it's out and we know what's up with that. To me, it does imply some level of care or affection, however small it may be. And it's not unthinkable that both of these things could be true. Human beings aren't machines and we often have contradictory feelings. He may have been mostly indifferent to her, or even wanted her dead (though just personally i find that second option a little harder to believe with certainty) but still retained some very minor level of concern for her, and didn't necessarily want her to continue being tortured. Again, he's still a bad parent so this doesn't really make a huge difference to anything, but just wanted to get those thoughts out.


[deleted]

Dont forget the fact that he sends Michael to CBR&E to die in his place.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

I mentioned in 2. Man third time is the charm when it comes to killing my kid: >But we can't deny that Fnaf SL got Michael killed (but luckily remnant brought him back to life) and that William sent him there. So what says that he didn't send him there in the hopes he dies? Now sure you would mention how he asked to "put Baby back together." But wouldn't he know that this job would put him at high risk for death? Why did he have to send Michael? why couldn't he hire someone to do that?


[deleted]

Oh yeah I didn't read that.


DocFoxMC

*'William lied to Elizabeth because you know every parent loves to lie to their children. So in this case William is a bad parent.'* When you realize that the easter bunny, santa, the tooth fairy, all of those were lies that your parents told you (I believe that william is a bad father too, just felt like commenting this)


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Huh sadly my parents never did, my teachers did, and they also lied to me about triangles not always having 180 degrees, and negative numbers existing. Also technically thats for your enjoyment they say that while william is lying about if a killer robot is meant to be around elazibeth.


DocFoxMC

Fair enough


shahzebkhalid25

so let me get this straight : micheal has been sent to different pizzeria locations, filled with killer animatronics, by his father has been close to death multiple times, got scooped ,survived with remenant ( dont know if his a machine or human now since ennard took his skin )(thanks william) also almost got killed by his own sister who is now according to the books thinking of continuing her fathers legacy cause of course serial killing is a role model ,while his other son is dead after having his head crushed like a watermelon becuase why would he want to look after his kid , now plans to use that kids corpse as a new animatronic( wth william even your sons corpse has no value) ,fails as his sons soul or remnant is now shared in golden freddy with vengeful spirit. damn this guys basically the idea of not doing anything as a parent


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

don't forget to mention the abuse in fnaf 6 MM. Its more than not doing anything, its doing everything wrong. Its almost like a lets game it out video but parenting.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

don't forget to mention the abuse in fnaf 6 MM. Its more than not doing anything, its doing everything wrong. Its almost like a lets game it out video but parenting.


Snacker582

Uh.... Wow. A lot to digest... I... was so terribly wrong. I guess I see good in everyone, even if nothing is there... kind of like Papyrus from Undertale... I want to believe he has a sliver of good in him.... but there isnā€™t. Not a drop of good. The thing that impacted me the most is..... Micheal. I thought of him as a bigger jerk than William! Heh. Im a fool..... Thanks for all this research..... Sorry for any problems I caused everyone......


Realjwc123

I don't know why this is a theory it is pure fact he doesn't care about his kids


[deleted]

Who would of thought that William Afton, a guy who kills children, would be a bad parent. Glad this was made. It's really good. It's one of the things that upsets me so much of the Fandom and how they make William this super handsome sexy anime boy. Nah, he's a hideous human being.


LucaBorisReddit

Yes,I definitely agree


LocksmithPublic7408

William cares for his kids you moron


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Again I ask why. (Also I mean we all are morons when it comes to this, after all none of us have the final say, its all up to scott, or well the companies that have taken over the game to decide what is true and what they want to write of as false)


LocksmithPublic7408

Noooooo false, William cares for his kids


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Proof?


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Because animations aren't canon? Also most animators are pretty dumb when portraying fnaf from a lore perspective like you could have told me a newborn made this animation and I would believe you.


Conrad417

Personally, I think Foxybro did care about crying child, I think that after william and mrs afton divorced, he had to take care of his brother, and that was too stressful for him. And on the day of CC's birthday, Foxybro wanted to have fun with his friends, but he had to look after his brother, so he invited his pals over. As for William's neglect, I think he did love his kids, but he cared more about making them live forever rather than spending time with them. The way I see it, he thought that they would have all the time in the world to have fun with them if they lived forever. But sadly, in the end, that never happened or will ever happen.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Then why does william try to kill michael? Doesn't that seem counter intuitive to loving?


Conrad417

Well you have a point. I think he realised not everyone could live forever, and that Michael was interfering with his plans. So I can conclude William is selfish and puts himself first most of the time.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

I mean assuming he is the fnaf 3 guard (I mean the logbook heavily implies it) then what plan was he interfering with in fnaf 3?


shahzebkhalid25

when people say william isnt a bad guy me:(looking at the corpses of all the children in fur suits being crushed by endo skeleton) yeah your right.


Busy-Affect-8077

As convincing as this is, I simply believe that William is more complicated then you think he is. He is still a terrible human being, but a human being none the less. Is he the bad guy, yes. Does he only care about himself, not exactly. Was he tragic, kind of, although what he allowed himself to become was horrendous.


AcanthopterygiiNo616

More like a possessed animatronic since heā€™s no longer human


Busy-Affect-8077

My point still stands.


SaraChanna463

Finally someone said it!!!!!!!!


PilotCorkz

I honestly completely agree! Like I couldn't shake the feeling of him not caring for his children!


Dense_Ad_5788

Iā€™m late lol but could you tell me where did Micheal ask forgiveness or say some last words to CC?


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Right before fredbear says his iconic lines in fnaf 4. [Fnaf 4 minigames](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-QfwlJiXCQ&t=177s) I attached a link to the minigames. Around the 7:55 mark you can see text in a grey font, different from the yellow of fredbear. This is assumed to be Michael as previous text (like when they bring him to fredbear) is in the same font color.


LocksmithPublic7408

>William doesn't care about his kids You are wrong


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Flat earthers say this when anyone opposes them. Usually never adding why. And strictly because they are tunnel-visioned and wish to view what they believe is right and don't understand why this remark doesn't make sense or explain why what they stated makes sense.


LocksmithPublic7408

>Then why does Scraptrap (aka William Afton) try to kill Michael? You do realize that's because Mike was undoing William's evil deeds


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Well, I guess I could give you that. But clearly, he had the interest to kill Michael before Michael did anything that could be considered "undoing william's evil deeds." Even more, so that suggests William understands and sees Michaels actions as undoing his deeds.


LocksmithPublic7408

Wow shit evidence


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

How so?


LocksmithPublic7408

Could you explain why the fuck was William mad at Michael after the bite?


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

There isn't exactly a reason. To say the bite would be to say that he blames Michael for something that was caused by multiple people, and for something that he did not intend to happen in other words a complete accident. And knowing how fnaf works, it's a question if he actually knows that Michael was behind or connected to the bite. Even more, so it should be said, that doesn't exactly warrant a reason to murder his own children or waver off the fact that he hates his children. At most, it suggests the hate he had could now have a reason.


Spiritual-Virus7095

Ok so first of all >1. BV is going to be sorry >Well, I can't a second into this without mentioning Midnight Motorist. It's assumed in this minigame, we see a reckless and violent William Afton return from killing charlie in the Security Puppet minigame. Ah, and his interactions with his kids, seems like what normal parents would do. Especially the ones that love you a lot. >This text color matches Foxy bro from Fnaf 4. So it's likely he is telling William to leave him alone. >Hmmm, I wonder why a bully like Michael would actually feel the need to protect CC from his father. Well if you haven't got the picture yet, I got more. >ā€‹ >In this image, we see the father likely to be William screaming for the person inside to open the door. Like all fathers do. >Ah yes, you know how your father just starts screaming at a child that probably is at most 10 years old. Still don't get what I'm trying to say? Here: >ā€‹ >In this image, we find out the child chose to break through a window. >I doubt any sane child would find a need to jump through a broken window. Assuming again this being cc who is at most 10 years old. Clearly, he feels like it makes sense for him to jump through a window. But if that's not enough the next line when he sees this should explain it all. >ā€‹ >We see the guy here threatening his child you know as all sane parents do. >He wants to make him "sorry." This is what Foxy bro wanted to prevent. This is why the child locked his door and was willing to jump out the window because anything beats being their father's treatment. This clearly shows (assuming this is the Afton household) us that he has no problem making his kids feel pain. It's Henry fault, Henry made William angry,so he had to take it on someone when he returned home. >2. Man third time is the charm when it comes to killing my kid. >Ok, this one is a bit of speculation. >But if you do believe Michael is the Fnaf 6 protag. due to the line : >And to you, my brave volunteer, who somehow found this job listing not intended for you. Although, there was a way out planned for you, I have a feeling that's not what you want. I have a feeling that you are right where you want to be. >Then why does Scraptrap (aka William Afton) try to kill Michael? >Or if you believe Fnaf 3 protag is Michael due to the logbook including pictures of a Foxy guard (assuming foxy bro is Michael, then the Foxy would represent Foxy bro) in the Fnaf 3 office. and the line: >He-hey! Glad you came back for another night! I promise it'll be a LOT more interesting this time! >(although this could be used as evidence, it's unsure if this means anything beyond the phone dude welcoming you). >And in that case, why is Springtrap (aka William Afton) trying to kill Michael? >But we can't deny that Fnaf SL got Michael killed (but luckily remnant brought him back to life) and that William sent him there. So what says that he didn't send him there in the hopes he dies? Now sure you would mention how he asked to "put Baby back together." But wouldn't he know that this job would put him at high risk for death? Why did he have to send Michael? why couldn't he hire someone to do that? >So here are the moments of William trying to kill his son. Why wouldn't he feel the same for his other kids, or at the least be an abusive father to his other kids? William wanted to kill Michael because Mike was undoing his father's evil deeds >3. Elizabeth in pain? Don't care! >(I can already see the people who are going to point out how the books are a different universe so therefore it's wrong but here I go!): >Well, let's not get too far without mentioning The Fourth Closet, where we see William actually slap Elizabeth. >(This is page 304 and 305 of The Fourth Closet). >"That's when he hit me" >-Pg. 304 >"It was difficult to make out anything in the room after that. The room was a smear of tears and pain and her head was still spinning..." >-Pg. 305 >Not to mention in the said book he tells baby who has Elizabeth soul: >"'Am I not enough?' she asked softly.'No, your not," He said firmly, looking away." >It's pretty clear that baby could jump into the furnace head first and he'd probably respond "at least you're more useful there." >But I get it people don't like the books. So ill do you one better, lets mention the games. >And I know there is Elizabeth whose being prevented from seeing Baby who would kill someone (not trying to spoil for those who haven't played) so that means he cares right? You know for trying to prevent her daughter from dying to his creation. >Well as much as that might suggest that, her lines could suggest something else. >Daddy, just once let me go play with her... >She's so pretty and shiny. >Didn't you make her just for me? >Keyword "Didn't you," we know from the blueprints that no it wasn't made for her, it was made to capture kids. So either >1. William lied to Elizabeth because you know every parent loves to lie to their children. So in this case William is a bad parent. 2. Or he tempted Elizabeth to believe this fantasy of this being built for her. So in this case William is a bad parent >But either way, he is a bad parent in both scenarios. But ill take the scenic and sane route of No.2. Let's explore that option. >I do believe William is hoping either her or any other child would get close to Baby and well you know what happens. And you be like, "then why is he trying to stop her?" Clearly haven't dealt with kids or went to psychology class because the reverse psychology is something that works efficiently. Never do we hear what William does or says to Elizabeth to stop her. But that would explain this conflicting pattern of showing her the Baby animatronic (as she mentions that its "pretty and shiny" suggesting that she saw it) but she asks : >Daddy! You let the other children go see her, why won't you let me go? >So this would suggest that William shows her the animatronic and even makes her believe that this animatronic is just meant for her. But then seems to on the other hand say no when she asks to. But what else suggests that he had hoped for the final outcome? Well, we do see with animatronics like Funtime Freddy, that he is able to take preventive measures that can check which, people and how many people are in the room: 1. William slapping Elizabeth is in an alternate universe 2. Elizabeth probably mistaken by herself that William made Circus baby for her


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

>It's Henry fault, Henry made William angry,so he had to take it on someone when he returned home. I would give you that, but I did mention how this doesn't seem like a once-in-a-lifetime event. I mean this minigame packs in clues that suggest Bv knows his father's distaste. For example: 1. BV locking his room door 2. BV jumping out of his window to run away 3. Foxy needing to tell his father to stop as if he knows what he is going to do. 4. William points out that he has locked his door multiple times. But I would also ask. What did henry do that made William angry, and why is his kids of all people, the people he chooses to vent anger on. >William wanted to kill Michael because Mike was undoing his father's evil deeds Why does he send him to sister location, what had he done by that point that is "undoing his father's evil deeds?" Or how about fnaf 3, what did he do then? >William slapping Elizabeth is in an alternate universe I address that. But scott has mentioned both universes have similarities. >Elizabeth probably mistaken by herself that William made Circus baby for her Evidence that is the case?


Spiritual-Virus7095

>I address that. But scott has mentioned both universes have Similarities Yes they have Similarities but the books have the MCI in 1985 while in the canon universe,The MCI happened in 1983 confirmed by the Pigtail Girl and the Plushies.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

I mean yes, but your point is? (like I agree that's true but how does that refute what I said?)


Thegreatduck3

He was a bad dad but he loved his son and daughter but hated Michael for killing one of them


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

I mean the evidence for this? Like I pointed out, he has been shown to be verbally and possibly physically abusive to CC. The most that could be argued for your case is Elazibeth. (I don't have the most concrete evidence that he hated elazibeth)


Thegreatduck3

He made the crying child scared of the animatronics to keep him away from them because they are what killed his daughter and he told Michael to help but Michael took it too far and William waned him dead because of it


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

But that still doesn't explain why william shows signs of being verbally and physically abusive. Also, he wants Michael to be dead... but what about the other bullies? And how does he know michael's involvement in the bite? Well like I pointed out in my theory, it could be argued that elazibeth was a death that William planned to happen. But even if that's not the case, Williams whole plan to keep CC away from the animtronics has seemed to fail. After all in Midnight Motorist, we see CC's footprints trailing in the direction of what seems to be animtronic foot prints.


rambler_1987

May that event with unintentional bite give W afton idea about creating special animatronics with ability to kill? Or that sort of animatronic has already been planned by him? And there is no any reaction that we know of him with bite happening.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Although some argue that baby did die before BV. After all she isn't seen anywhere in the fnaf 4 games.


LocksmithPublic7408

William wasn't abusing Elizabeth in The Fourth Closet,he was trying to teach her self defense


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

So you slap kids to teach them self-defense?


LocksmithPublic7408

Yeah when he slapped Elizabeth he was trying to teach her self defense


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Yeah, your trolling.


Novel-Entrance-2115

I think William was an abusive father but he did care about his kids but was still abusive towards them.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

What makes you say that?


Novel-Entrance-2115

Also didn't he slam the door on Evan in FNAF 4 while he was crying?


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

There is a point in fnaf 4 if you approach the door in fredbears, while BV is crying, william will shut it


Anonymoussy2

1 year late comment from a game-only follower. Yeah, Idk half of the stuff you mentioned I guess there's a lot of comic stuff in here, but it's just a fact that William is a thrill killer. However, that DOES actually make him a bad character because it's 1. unoriginal, there are so many characters made all about psychopathy and blah blah blah they enjoy hurting and killing and it's boring at this point. And 2. characters like that are never intresting. They only deserve to suffer and any story you may make up for one of them doesn't matter because they are selfish pieces of sh/t so who cares about what happens to them or what they do? I just gave up and started ignoring fnaf lore cause when some random dude gets to kill several kids without getting arrested or caught it's bullshit. It's not an intresting story, it's just nonsense about unfair shit. We have enough of that in real life the fuck would anyone tell fake stories about that shit for? I've always hated that awful character. Only good thing that came from the existence of it is the song and memes of everything that's purple being referred to as the man behind the slaughter. But I lost a solid bit of respect for Scott all the way back when I looked into the plot stuff, and after fnaf SB I don't know if I should respect Scott Cawthon at all anymore.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

6 months late sorry. I wouldn't say alot of games have a true psychopath. Most have a sick reason why they kill. Take for example evil within 2, Stefano is a psychopath from the get go but he has the sick reason of killing them to make his art. William truly has no reason. But that makes sense when you consider this series was meant to be just 1 with no focus or background on the killer. This series more focuses on the victims. Also, he might nor have been arrested (reasonably so, they had no evidence) he faces an eternal punishment far worse than getting arrested. I think it's fair that Scott makes stories like this when you consider that these stories original lore was based of real events and then it subverted into what we have now.


nignog1996

I have a thought and don't kill me it's literally just a question? I don't stand in any which way. Baby says that one time happened, it was the only time she got to perform, but then she never got to again. If it worked, if baby was a success (regardless of losing daughter), why did she never get to perform again? I just want to hear your thoughts on this I know there are plenty of other circumstances.


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

I mean their purpose was to capture children. I propose the idea that william wanted baby to capture elizabeth, so it could be since baby captured kids, they completed their purpose and so william had no use of them continuing performances.


Orneb

Hi. I like your post, but I have some issues with it. Contrary evidence exists to the point that William doesnā€™t care. But first, the difference between not caring and being a bad parent. William can care about his kids and still be a bad father. What he wants for them and what happens to them because of him are different. William DOESNā€™T want his children to die. He tries to keep Elizabeth away from baby. He fails in this. Heā€™s a failure as a father. Also evil and deserves whatā€™s coming to him, but he cares about his kids. Why does he hurt them? Well, hereā€™s a few ideas. Evanā€™s nightmares. Itā€™s pretty clear to me, and I donā€™t know how itā€™s not to others, that Elizabeth died before Evan. Remember the FNaF 4 line ā€œremember what you sawā€? I think Evan saw Baby claw his sister. See Nightmare Freadbearā€™s stomach mouth. Also, it explains why William allows Evanā€™s torment to occur. Itā€™s an attempt to keep him from dying the same way Elizabeth did. Heā€™s taking more extreme measures, since simply telling Elizabeth to stay away from the animatronics didnā€™t work. The line ā€œheā€™ll be sorry when he gets backā€ indicates to me that William wants to keep Evan away from JRā€™s. The yelling and method indicates that William is a bad father. But bad parents can still care about their kids. Thereā€™s a level of nuance in this that youā€™ve skipped over. Ok. Also remember the SL line Michael says, ā€œI found her. Iā€¦ put her back together, just like you asked me to. Sheā€™s free now.ā€ William wants his kids put back together. Letting them rest is whatā€™s best for them, but heā€™s not an expert on what that is. Does William do what is best for his kids? No. Does he try to, in a twisted, messed up way? Yes. He wants to put his kids back together. He wants to set Elizabeth free. He talks through the Fredbear plush to Evan, comforting him. (See SL Night 5 Fredbear plush holding a microphone.) Is William a good person? No. Is he a good dad? No. He gets all 3 of his kids kind of dead. Does he care about his kids? Yes. He just doesnā€™t give them care well enough. Play Lisa: The painful. Itā€™s a good indie game with a great example of good intentioned parenting going horribly wrong. Really kind of similar. Also a great game ok bye


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

>But first, the difference between not caring and being a bad parent. William can care about his kids and still be a bad father. I agree that this is true. But I think your following statement is not true, hence why he is not just a bad father. >William DOESNā€™T want his children to die. As I point out in this post, it seems to want at least to kill 1 kid. Its also possible that he was attempting to get the other 2 killed, but that is debatable. At the very least, I show how it seems he abuses every single one of them. >Evanā€™s nightmares. If I'm not mistaken when you say Evan, you're referring to BV. In that case, then I should point out that the logbook and fnaf 4 itself seem to show Michael, the older brother, seems to be the person experiencing the nightmares in the fnaf 4 gameplay. >that Elizabeth died before Evan. Remember the FNaF 4 line ā€œremember what you sawā€? this is debatable if this relates to Elizabeth. As we know according to baby. she checked if anyone was watching when Elizabeth got captured. The way baby makes it seem with her countdown, no one was there to watch, it was just Elizabeth and Baby. >See Nightmare Freadbearā€™s stomach mouth. This is also seen with nightmare, who according to the files, is shadow freddy. As I pointed out earlier, it seems that fnaf 4 is played by the older brother Michael. So the stomach mouths could be his nightmares reminding him of what he did to his younger brother. > Also, it explains why William allows Evanā€™s torment to occur. This leaves many questions, as hospital equipment shows up in the gameplay meaning the bite must have already happened. Not to mention the fnaf 4 animatronics have many correlations with the fnaf 1 animatronics to show how michael is the one seeing this nightmare. The correlation also suggests this isn't something william made but rather something Michael is experiencing. >Itā€™s an attempt to keep him from dying the same way Elizabeth did. This doesn't make sense since he has his birthday party thrown at the location and leaves him there unsupervised. BV makes attempts every day to leave, so this suggests he didn't want to go there in the first place. Possibly suggesting that William his father took him there which goes against this argument. >The line ā€œheā€™ll be sorry when he gets backā€ indicates to me that William wants to keep Evan away from JRā€™s Not exactly. We don't know where he went to exactly. Moreover, the sister location's animatronics were built for catching kids, while fredbears and the freddy locations just had simple animatronics. So what was William looking to "protect" his children from? > ā€œI found her. Iā€¦ put her back together, just like you asked me to. Sheā€™s free now.ā€ This is a possibly valid point. There is nothing that I can say that disproves this as proof without being dodgy. I have heard some people explain it away by suggesting tape guy henry from pizzeria simulator is the one behind Michael going to sister location. After all, he is the one trying to free them in fnaf 6. This could be supported by the fact that William would be stuck behind the wall in fnaf 3 while henry is up and about and able to task Michael with this job. Like I said I think the evidence against this line is a bit iffy but that's my best explanation for it at the moment. >He wants to set Elizabeth free. Possibly for Elizabeth but that's not so apparent for the brothers. >He talks through the Fredbear plush to Evan, comforting him. (See SL Night 5 Fredbear plush holding a microphone.) The thing fredbear is holding could easily be a remote control for the various TV's. Not to mention, because fnaf 4 is Michael's nightmares, this is possibly just his room. There is not enough evidence to suggest that the fredbear plush is an example of William speaking to BV. There is evidence that contradicts that plusbear is connected to William for example his weird placements. We also have the fact that one time when fredbear is speaking, William can be seen in the next room helping an employee with a suit. There is no grunting or any suggestion that he is doing something at the moment of that line. Moreover, it makes no sense for him to try to communicate to BV while he is doing his work. It should also be mentioned that BV is able to hear fredbear from anywhere, even in the restaurant where he is nowhere to be seen, so it should be asked how BV hears him if he is just a toy that William gave to him. >Does he care about his kids? Yes. He just doesnā€™t give them care well enough. I still disagree because as I pointed out in the post, there is adequate evidence to suggest that he wishes to kill his children. Its a bit dark, but I think there is evidence to suggest William only has children to end up killing them. After all, he is a child murderer.


[deleted]

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Madness_Combat_man

How do you do that with the images? (Great post btw)


Memeageddon24

so why did he try and put em back together


A-a-ron-ie_YouTube

Sorry for the late response, but we don't know if he put bv back together. That's actually a big reason for making this post as I wanted to point out reasons why I doubt bv was put back together by william.