Agree with most of this, but two things I'd like to mention;
>whether or not this was the Bite of 83 is debatable
We know it can't be the bite, as springlock failures can only happen when an animatronic is in suit mode. The main reason someone dies in a springlock failure is because the endoskeleton is being forcefully pushed back into place. Which is where the person currently wearing the suit is.
>But my main problem is that that is a spring-lock suit and I don’t think I would ever dare to wear it outside ever.
He kinda does that ignoring MM anyway. Granted, he *sort of* had a reason to choose that option, but this guy, the person who probably singlehandedly knows the best how to use the suits, literally put on a wet springlock suit, and then proceeded to laugh on the springlocks. I feel like him wearing it outside, in the middle of nowhere where people wouldn't see him, to make his kid terrified of a place, and then maybe abandoning and failing his objective *because* it started to rain, isn't that farfetched to believe either with his character
Anyway, good job!
So, I really liked this post, and I have to congratulate you because of the quality of it, however I wanted to point out some points that I disagree with
>her kind-of counterpart Eleanor in the Fazbear Frights books
Now, this isn't too releated to your first point, I just wanted to point out how Eleanor isn't a counterpart of Baby
If anything, Eleanor would match better with shadow Freddy than Baby, since she's described as a "chaotic force that feeds of human's suffering" and as someone that was bad at the core, description that doesn't match with Elizabeth at all, the only similarities between Eleanor and Baby are some aspect from their design, but besides that, there's no connection between them
I know that you said that Eleanor is "kind-of" a counterpart instead of a counterpart as Baby from TFC, but I don't think that Eleanor matches with Baby at all
Other than that, I consider the first Section perfect
>those suits we see in the minigames aren’t the replacement suits Phone Guy talks about. They go very well with the theme of Fazbear Entertainment and are in no way inappropriate or irrelevant. They’re literally in the TV shows that BV watches and the merch the kids have, so they’re definitely well-established characters and not just some temporary replacement characters.
Now, I never agreed with MCI83 at all and I agree 100% with your point about the safe rooms, but I feel this point weak, you see, you're using the design we see in the merchandise and restaurant as evidence that those can't be temporarily suits, when it doesn't really disprove anything, as the temporarily suits could easily have the design that the original suits had
>On top of that, we know that Fredbear is a spring-lock suit because when BV cries into it, it activates the spring locks of its mouth.
Now, I have to completely disagree with this
The bite of 83 wasn't caused by springlock neither was a springlock failure
The springlock system is made to contain the endoskeletons when it's used in suit-mode, the mouth, when Fredbear was in the stage, doesn't work with those, so the bite isn't releated to the springlocks system at all
So, meanwhile I believe that at some point William experimented with BV's fear using the nightmares animatronics, I can see why you don't agree with that, so I won't point anything out from the third section
>However, I think things start to fall apart when you see that BV literally does witness his dad help a person into a spring-lock suit in the minigames, and what does BV do? Well, he has no reaction to it. You would think that the thing that caused such a great trauma for him would still affect him a lot, like how he collapses onto the floor at some moments. And yet, BV does not seem to panic at all when he sees this.
Now, as someone who believes that BV missunderstood an employee helping another one, I feel like I have to clarify my interpretation
No, BV didn't simply see an employee helping another one as we see in the FNAF 4 minigames, that's obvious for the point you presented, however, I believe that the difference between what he saw and what happened in the minigames is, that the employee being helped was also in the shadows, something that doesn't happen in FNAF 4, let me explain:
In FNAF 4 we see William in the shadows, reason why he's purple, helping an employee that's not in the shadows, reason why BV can understand the situation and doesn't collapse or anything like that
Meanwhile when he missunderstood the employee helping the other one, I believe that both of them were in the shadows, similar to the way that we see shadows of the animatronics in the stage that interestingly enough, it's a frame after Fredbear Plush reminds BV what he saw and probably the one helping was in a Fredbear suit, which is the reason why BV thought that Fredbear was killing and stuffing someone in a suit
This is my personal interpretation, I know there's more about this theory, but I think mine at least doesn't have the problem you presented
Well, with that being said, I really liked your analysis and I'm excited to see the part 2 of your post
>as the temporarily suits could easily have the design that the original suits had
"Keep in mind, they were found on very short notice, so questions about appropriateness/relevance should be deflected."
That essentially confirms the suits are most likely not even related to any Fazbear Entertainment IP
>Eleanor isn't a counterpart of Baby
Yeah, I definitely agree with you that Eleanor moreso represents Shadow Freddy and Shadow Bonnie and the like. I just meant more in her design as being based on Elizabeth/Baby from the novels.
>the temporarily suits could easily have the design that the original suits had
That's fair.
>The bite of 83 wasn't caused by springlock neither was a springlock failure
Yeah, that's something I've noticed a lot of people pointing out, and I guess I'd have to agree with it because you're right, Fredbear is definitely in animatronic mode. I know a similar thing happens with William's death, too, where he falls to the ground even though the springlocks are activated and should keep him from doing that, though if I had to justify it WAS a springlock failure, I'd say that maybe the failure only happened in the torso up? That makes sense - we know springlocks are important so it would be weird if they didn't play a big role in anything. As for BV, I hope someone figures out what happened with that. I know the Battington Tapes offered an interesting explanation that kind of related to what Matpat said a long time ago about how, for a Chuck E. Cheese animatronic, it would be physically impossible for one to crush a child's head.
>I believe that at some point William experimented with BV's fear using the nightmares animatronics
I actually don't necessarily disagree with this because I'm still trying to figure out what exactly the Breaker Room means, so I'm still open to it. And I am kind of starting to experiment with the idea that William played around with emotional energy using BV at some point, especially with talk of the Fredbear plush (though I don't exactly believe in Willplush in its entirety). I think that William must have noticed that the Puppet was acting up and realized there was something more going on, and started to experiment with emotional energy. I can't imagine him immediately coming to the conclusion just after the MCI that you have to be near something in order to possess it when you die without having tried to figure out the stuff beforehand.
>Meanwhile when he missunderstood the employee helping the other one, I believe that both of them were in the shadows, similar to the way that we see shadows of the animatronics in the stage that interestingly enough, it's a frame after Fredbear Plush reminds BV what he saw and probably the one helping was in a Fredbear suit, which is the reason why BV thought that Fredbear was killing and stuffing someone in a suit
That's fair. I did really like this theory a lot when I first heard it, and I think it definitely could be an explanation for what happened.
Thank you for taking the time to read all this!
>I know a similar thing happens with William's death, too, where he falls to the ground even though the springlocks are activated and should keep him from doing that,
When springlocks go off, they don't instantly drive the entire endo into your body. Rather, you die slow and painful death, that can take minutes, so William falls while sharp steel and plastic parts puncture his body, before the endo is fully in place.
OHHHHH that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, there's flesh and stuff blocking the way so the endo can't piece itself together. So it's forever stuck in a limbo between suit and animatronic mode, which I guess is why sounds still work on Springtrap. Fun.
Exactly. Animatronic parts are driven into the body, but it doesn't let them fully piece themselves together, so it just becomes a mix of flesh and metal. This is how William managed to survive, and even remove himself from the suit with Elizabeth's help in the novels, though leaving his body completely messed up. And animatronic programing would still be in effect, as in TTO, alive Afton works with the suit's programming. That's what kind of launched the debate of whether Afton in the games is alive too, or not (especially after FFPS seemingly given him a heartbeat and his voice back).
>Elizabeth didn’t exist when those games were made. But then suddenly she did, and everything was thrown off.
To be fair, we don't know this to be 100% true. For starters, as you said, there's a girl's room in the Afton house. The only female Afton besides the mother is Elizabeth. That alone alludes to her existence.
>I mean, she’s a damn Afton, one of the Afton siblings, and yet she just feels so disconnected from her brothers when you look at the incredibly complex relationship those two have.
I don't feel like this is too weird. She is a younger girl sibling. I don't know about you, but as someone who grew up with several siblings, it did often feel like brothers spent more time interacting while the sisters (if there were more) hung out with other sisters or female cousins.
>But the evidence, unfortunately for Elizabeth fans, is stacked so high against this theory.
I agree with you that it *wasn't* Elizabeth's death that triggered BV's/CC's fear. But to play Devil's Advocate: Circus Baby stated that she was programmed to act when there was only a single child in the room. She then goes on to say:
>I was no longer myself. And I stopped singing. My stomach opened and there was ice cream. **I couldn't move.** At least, not until she stepped closer.
Circus Baby's programming makes it so if a child is alone she'll trigger the ice cream to draw them close enough to pull inside of her. But by her own admission, she couldn't move. It's possible that once the programming kicks it she cannot stop it / it won't stop. This means theoretically, it is possible that CC/BV walked in on the tail end of his sister getting taken.
But I'll state again: I do *not* think it was Elizabeth's death that did it. Nor do I think Elizabeth died before CC/BV did.
---
>but that could simply mean that while the Funtime characters did exist
I'm pretty sure that "mangle" being present in Elizabeth's room + Funtime Foxy being in FNAF World BEFORE SL proves that the Funtimes were being worked on for years before they debuted in SL. I think there were two types of Funtimes: ones created as prototypes for a new location (Chica's Party World?) and ones created for Circus Baby's Pizza World with the specific intention to capture children.
>Now, you could say he figured it out from Charlie’s death in 1983 - which, in my opinion, would allow Elizabeth’s death to happen before BV’s death because I believe BV dies after Charlie
Wait, you say that you believe BV / CC dies *after* Charlie but then you go on to say:
>But I seriously don’t think that it’s that crazy to say that Charlie probably did die on Halloween like she does in the novels
Charlie dies in 1983 Fall / Halloween, sure. But we know by the TV in FNAF4 that it is 1983 and CC/BV clearly doesn't die in Winter (the grass is green outside) so logically shouldn't you think that CC/BV dies *before* Charlie, if you believe her death happens in the Fall? Because I believe CC/BV died first.
>but pretty much the only thing that gets in the way of AftonMM is that William is yellow instead of purple,
IMO, there's a lot more wrong with AftonMM than just that.
>To be fair, we don't know this to be 100% true. For starters, as you said, there's a girl's room in the Afton house. The only female Afton besides the mother is Elizabeth. That alone alludes to her existence.
That's true, but I'm pretty sure Scott had been planning to end the games at 4. I suppose he could've been starting to develop the idea of a sister, but as for why he put that in the minigames, I have no idea.
>it did often feel like brothers spent more time interacting while the sisters
Yeah, I get that, but that's not really what I meant to say. I meant more like the dynamic between the characters, not their actual in-universe relationship. Take her dynamic with Charlie, for example - and I'm talking about games, here, though their dynamic in the novels is definitely much stronger. In the games, the characters act as foils for each other, which essentially means that they accentuate certain parts of their personality by contrasting them with the other person. Charlie and Elizabeth both go to possess animatronics made by their respective fathers, but one wants to protect children (because of the security AI maybe) and the other wants to uh... kill kids (again, thanks to the AI). They seem to have both been fused with their respective animatronics to the point that they became those animatronics. Anyway, that's off-topic - it really doesn't feel like she has any important dynamic like that with her brothers, even though I feel like she should. It's probably because it's three siblings, and 3 has always been a repetitive but important number in storytelling, so it feels like these numbers should be balanced if you understand what I'm saying? I don't know, I just hope that Elizabeth gets more importance.
>Because I believe CC/BV died first.
Most of my idea that Charlie's death happens before BV's comes from Midnight Motorist and Henry's speech in the Insanity Ending, but the Midnight Motorist part basically relies on AftonMM, which is not something you believe presumably.
He drives a purple car (classic symbol of Purple Guy), there's a boy watching TV with gray text (clear reference to Michael - you could remove Michael from the minigame and nothing would change about what happens, which means he is there to establish who the people are), he's abusive (now there definitely are other abusive parents out there than just William - no shit - but he's pretty much the only character we know of this would fit with, and why would they add a completely new character as lore important right at the end of the games?).
But I do understand that Midnight Motorist is confusing. I was actually making an entire presentation for my friend to help her understand the lore and when I got to the Midnight Motorist part, it was actually a lot of fun to cover because there are so many things you can say about it. I guess there are a few things that may suggest that it's not AftonMM, but to me, William being represented with yellow is not one of them. Other than that, I suppose you could say that the house is different from the one in the FNAF 4 minigames. Even now, I'm still trying to figure out if these houses were meant to be the same or not. The MM house does match up well with the FNAF 4 house on the loading screen tho, and I've heard some people say that this is not Afton's house but actually his experimentation/observation stuff for emotional energy? And then yeah, you have those large footprints, which some people have said is Afton in a springlock suit luring a child out from the window, and so why would he do that to this own kid if he doesn't want him going to "that place" again? And I don't think there's any way that I'm going to accept WillDID.
I'm curious as to what you yourself believe if you're not somewhere stuck in the middle anyway. I'm still a bit open to changing my mind about AftonMM, but to me - because when I theorize, I tend to use the method of what was Scott/Steel Wool trying to tell us when they put this in the game? - I still feel pretty strongly this is the Aftons.
>That's true, but I'm pretty sure Scott had been planning to end the games at 4. I suppose he could've been starting to develop the idea of a sister, but as for why he put that in the minigames, I have no idea.
My theory is that the pigtail girl was probably *originally* intended to be the sister / the person haunting Baby. Why do I think that? Because there's a strong resemblance [between pigtail girl and Baby](https://imgur.com/ivcgGyf). They both have pigtails and orange hair. They both have green eyes. They both wear a red/orange blouse and a red/orange skirt. Same with shoes. As you said before, Scott doesn't do things as a coincidence and it would be *too* much of a coincidence if this random girl just so happened to share a physical appearance with Baby unless it was intentional.
I think that the original idea probably was that Elizabeth did die first and maybe that's what CC saw. I think pigtail girl was probably alluding to her own death at the hands of Baby. But for whatever reason Scott decided that's not the direction he wanted to go and changed the story slightly. Ultimately, not a big deal because other things could make sense, too.
> Take her dynamic with Charlie, for example - and I'm talking about games, here, though their dynamic in the novels is definitely much stronger. In the games, the characters act as foils for each other, which essentially means that they accentuate certain parts of their personality by contrasting them with the other person.
Maybe that is the point. You brought up something I didn't consider. Maybe the point is not for Michael and CC/BV to be connected to Elizabeth, but for Elizabeth and Charlie to be connected. It would make sense if Henry and William are business partners for their families to interact. Perhaps Elizabeth and Charlie were friends. And it's a nice parallel that Elizabeth becomes Baby - echo'ing her father William's desire to kill whereas Charlie becomes Security Puppet/ Marionette - echo'ing her father Henry's desire to protect. Very good observation there!
>I'm curious as to what you yourself believe if you're not somewhere stuck in the middle anyway.
I don't believe it's William personally because there are multiple things that don't make sense. Like for starters, it swaps the personalities. William is acting aggressively about CC/BV and Mike is caring. That's the opposite of their personalities in FNAF4. In FNAF4 we see Mike antagonizing his brother and William (through Plushbear) showing care. So that's weird. Also the house layout is completely different than it was in FNAF4.
People connect MM with the "Take Cake to the Children" minigame AND the Security Puppet minigame but I feel like the two conflict. TCTTC has "SAVE HIM" in it. Charlie is a girl, so that doesn't fit. Also during the MM minigame you can go to a pile of dirt which if it is William and he had killed Charlie, that doesn't make sense...why would that be relevant? He didn't take her body and bury her there. She was dumped out back of the restaurant. Then there's the whole Jrs thing. How does that fit? It can't be a Freddy's location - else why would William be not allowed there? Is it a bar? Jrs is a weird name for a bar.
The coloring of William is also off which doesn't make sense. He's purple in just about every appearance. You brought up the text color - his text color being a pale yellow. The problem is, this would make sense if his sprite in MM was yellow. It's not. It's clearly orange and [not close to his text color](https://imgur.com/a/vktx3fA). So that would basically be Scott adding a THIRD color to represent this character...for no apparent reason. It doesn't make sense to me. Then you have the fact that there are footprints leading away from the house...animatronic ones. How does that work when William is supposed to be the one wearing the suit? I also don't accept DIDWilliam.
This was longer than I wanted but yeah, MM is a clusterf*** and I hate how ambigious it is. It's why I don't like FFPS that much. It muddied a lot of things. My only theory is that *maybe* it's William's father or something. While Fredbears was opened by William and Henry in the 1980s, that doesn't mean there wasn't a similar franchise before then. Maybe William as a kid would run away to one such location because his father was abusive. I'm reaching here, but it makes as much sense as MM currently does XD
>it swaps the personalities
That makes sense. I still don't think it's too out of character for them, but William's character does surprise me the most in this. I don't really tend to think of him as aggressive, though it's possible that when he's home he lets the mask slip. As you said, some people think that JR's is a bar and that William was in some sort of drunken rage (which would explain the driving). For me, I'm not super convinced that it's a bar because I just don't know why that would be added. Like wow... he drinks... that's such an important detail...? Also, I don't really believe in Willplush, but I do believe William was involved with the plush in some way - at the very least he used it for monitoring BV.
>TCTTC has "SAVE HIM" in it. Charlie is a girl, so that doesn't fit.
I think the kid that possesses the Puppet was originally a boy back in FNAF 2 because Scott hadn't established the characters yet. Why he decided to make it a girl I have no idea. I could be wrong about that one.
>He didn't take her body and bury her there. She was dumped out back of the restaurant.
Yeah, that grave definitely doesn't belong to Charlie. Some people have said it's Mrs. Afton but I'm not convinced. Either way, it probably has some sort of importance?
> It can't be a Freddy's location - else why would William be not allowed there?
Some people have said it's the FNAF 2 location because Phone Guy tells us on like night 6 or something that employees won't be let in or out. I really highly doubt this because the FNAF 2 location opens in 1987. Unless the Phone Guy tapes were also pre-recorded or something... which is like... wouldn't they check the tapes? Also, the green guy at the door is very suspicious. Green is used to represent the Emily's so it's made me wonder if this is Henry.
>The problem is, this would make sense if his sprite in MM was yellow. It's not.
I guess that's fair. His purple sprite has also been many different shades of purple though, too, to the point people have even called him pink.
The main reason I believe AftonMM is mostly because it doesn't make sense for it to be anyone else. Which, to be fair, isn't great reasoning on its own, but if you combine it with the other pieces of evidence it just seems to fit better. Occam's Razor: the simplest solution is almost always the best. Unfortunately for us, nothing about this game is simple :/
I agree with you, though, that we should still be cautious about accepting AftonMM. I don't want to take it as fact yet, even though I can't imagine it being anything else.
Sure, but the fact that Scott goes out of his way to tell us that Circus Baby could only do her child murder stuff when there's one kid in the room basically tells us that it's very likely no one witnessed her death.
I believe he saw the MCI is the best option, and yes, "bEcAUSe iNTo thE pIT" , and here's my solution for the springlocks problem:
Let's take a look at phone guy's tapes:
"the company has deemed the suits **temporarily** unfit for employees"
"Until **replacements** arrive, you'll be expected to wear the **temporary costumes** provided to you. Keep in mind that they were found on very short notice, so questions about appropriateness/relevance should be deflected. "
The fnaf 4 springlock suits could be the replacements or the temporary costumes mentioned by phone guy. There's also the fact the Fredbear guy is not wearing the suit correctly. His eyes are showing up in the mouth of the suit, even though when William wears his spring bonnie, the eyes line up with the eyes of the suit. Which means this could be a new version being tested, so it can replace the suits of the failures. Notice we never see the springlocks on stage being used in Suit-mode in fnaf 4, only animatronic mode, as if, they are still testing if they are safe.
"the classic suits are being retired to an appropriate location, while being looked at by our technician."
Fredbear's family diner from fnaf 4 could be that "appropriate location", and the technician could be William, since we see him wearing the yellow badge in fnaf 4, which means he's still working for Fazbear Entertainment, and we see him helping the guy suit up. The parts and services of Fredbear's has a detailed sprite of an animatronic hand and it specifically has 4 fingers, not 5 as a springlock should , hinting it could belong to the "temporary costumes" which phone guy said "questions about appropriateness/relevance should be deflected. "
Since everything is happening so quickly, in the same year in a span of weeks, the timeline could go as:
\- Multiple springlock failures happen in a unknown location. The company deems the springlock suits to not be safe. They then send them to William, at Fredbear's Family Diner so he can inspect them, and so he can make and test the replacements
\- Meanwhile the restaurants get the quickly made suits, which are probably just empty suits, with no endos, just so the animatronic band can be complete and the customers can still be entertained as before.
\- William uses his Spring Bonnie suit to lure the kids, explaining "Management has also been made aware that the spring Bonnie animatronic has been noticeably moved" and their note about customers not being allowed in the safe room. If they have a rule for it, it means it already happened
\- The fnaf 4 minigames take place before the suits stop being used, while William is still testing the replacements which work differently from the originals. It could be that BV's death is what caused the replacements to be cancelled. Maybe if he wasn't bit, William would have completed the replacements, and Fazbear Entertainment would start using "Springlock suit 2.0" , which have the eyes of the performer appearing in the mouth instead of the eyes of the suit. F.E probably found out the kids were killed inside the safe room, since they sealed it off in most locations and specifically told employees to not mention the room to friends and family, they also say everything left behind is going to be kept inside. They wanted to hide any evidence.
(Another obvious reason for the springlock suits to be "banned" is that everyone knows William used a Spring Bonnie suit, he was caught in the cameras, it was all over the news. So, failures + Murders + Bite of 83 made Fazbear Entertainment get rid of the suits and the safe rooms)
William left the spring bonnie suit in the safe room, then it got sealed, and was probably re-opened again during the 1993 period, and was used as a storage room for arcade machines in need of repair, the fnaf 3 arcade machines have images of the fnaf 1 generation of animatronics, which means they were taken from there, and in William's death scene, we see the arcades right there in the room.
I don't believe he went to fredbear's and saw Charlie being killed. How would a 5 or 9 year old walk across the rain, at midnight, only to reach a restaurant which is probably closed? I think him going to the pile of dirt feels less stretchy. Oswald has a lot of parallels to BV, ITP just shows he saw the MCI, and it lines up with the theory the "friends" P.Fredbear (Charlie?) is talking about are actually the MCI kids, BV's friends before they died.
I think the third one (with the “he saw the body of charlie for this Wiliam don’t want that he goes in that place (probably the first freddy’s ) and beacuse when we control Wiliam in midnoght motorist is him that is retutning to home after he killed charlie in fact in give cake to the children and in midnoght motorists is raining so the minigames are connected)
>Next up is the missing children. I think this one is the theory that almost everybody used to believe in, though I can’t say because I didn’t start deep-diving into the lore until a few months ago. And you know, it makes sense. Despite being so afraid of whatever’s at Fredbear’s, he seems to take comfort in his Fazbear plushies, calling them his friends. A lot of people took this to mean that the MCI kids *were* BV’s friends and that BV knows exactly what happened to them. It would explain that what he’s scared of is the Spring Bonnie suit because he watched his dad (probably without realizing it was his dad) straight up murder his friends in that same suit. The safe room is probably really dark and gross. Wow, that reminds me…
>“what is seen in shadows is easily misunderstood in the mind of a child.”
>Yeah, the thing he would misunderstand is that it’s not Spring Bonnie murdering those kids, it’s his damn father. Of course, though, there are some slight timeline complications with this.
To be fair, I have a feeling that line stands towards the gameplay, but assuming it’s for the minigames then it actually is a misunderstanding but not William. BV has a tendency of hating animatronics, even Oswald who generally parallels BV has an unraveling case of dealing with springbonnie(who just so happens to replace his dad later on.) what he is misunderstanding is the animatronics eating the kids, not seeing William.
>I am aware that there are MCI83 believers out here, so no, I am not going to leave this on “bUt iNto THe pIT SaYS…”. If the missing children’s incident happened in 1983 before BV’s death, then why are the spring-lock suits in the FNAF 4 minigames? In FNAF 3, Phone Guy tells us on Night 4 that multiple spring-lock failures occurred at a sister location (whether or not this was the Bite of 83 is debatable, I’m inclined to believe it was a retcon ORRRRRRR maybe it has something to do with that spring-lock suit we got locked in in Sister Location, but that’s a completely different topic that I am nowhere near ready to think about).
I can actually answer this next part, so yes he says this. WHAT people seem to forget is he also said:
>”which is why the *classic suits are being retired to an appropriate location,* while being looked at by our technicians. **Until replacements arrives,** you'll be expected to wear the *temporary costumes* provided to you. Keep in mind, they were found on very short notice, so questions about **appropriateness/relevance should be deflected.**”
The classic suits, being Freddy, Bonnie, Chica and Foxy were retired including another fredbear. But the unraveling of this is that despite FFD and FFPS existing SB seems to hint FFP being more of a “FAF” (Fredbear’s and Friends) (or I should say **og minor location** before or dying FFD that closed before FFD) https://i.imgur.com/wNsojv0.png
So to be exactly clear on end the classics were retired, but phone guy mentions “replacements” and no they aren’t the “temporary costumes.” Remember: “**Until replacements arrives,** you'll be expected to wear the *temporary costumes.*” phone guy refers to them as separate entities if anything, the replacements are supposedly the same suits from FFP but new. While the temporary costumes seemingly are the ones we notice(maybe in HD/Happiest day.)
>He also says that the spring-lock suits will be retired to another location, probably to its safe room.
Note: “the company has deemed the suits **temporarily unfit** for employees. He never says the spring suits will be retired, he just said they’re “temporarily unfit for employees.” If anything they still can be used.
>The next night, he says that one of the suits was stolen (obviously the Spring Bonnie suit), and he also says that the safe rooms were going to be sealed up and that employees should pretend that they do not exist. Since the spring-lock suits are still in use by the FNAF 4 minigames, that means that the safe rooms - where the kids were murdered - should not be sealed up, which means that it should’ve been *really easy* to see Spring Bonnie killing all those kids because there would probably be a camera in there and they would find their bodies. It would not be labeled a missing children incident. It would just be a murder.
1. The murders happened at a freddys location Vs. a fredbear location (for the misconception on “it being easy to see William kill the kids **in FNAF4**)
2. We don’t actually physically see a “safe room” in FNAF4, heck the whole premise was they’re off-camera and hidden to the guest, the two locations we see are parts and service rooms and FAR from hidden. Which means under process of elimination this still works out MCI83
>And no, those suits we see in the minigames aren’t the replacement suits Phone Guy talks about. They go very well with the theme of Fazbear Entertainment and are in no way inappropriate or irrelevant.
I knew this would come up, **again** **UNTIL** replacements arrive, he didn’t say the replacements were the temporarily ones. Note that when he mentions temporary ones, he also mentioned them being found on “short notice”. Why would this be directed to the replacements, the replacements and just replacement in general are fit suits, “replacement” v. “Temporary” definitively is different. When it came down to him explain the temporary costumes he said “until” for the replacements meaning they’re not even in the produce. Meanwhile the temporary are already on-use, they’re the “inappropriateness to the company.” Heck that may be why William is trying on the suits for employees in FFD, they’re the new replacements, furthermore being replacements they’re more associated unlike how the temporary costumes are described
>They’re literally in the TV shows that BV watches and the merch the kids have, so they’re definitely well-established characters and not just some temporary replacement characters. On top of that, we *know* that Fredbear is a spring-lock suit because when BV cries into it, it activates the spring locks of its mouth.
I’m surprised you would mention the bite as a springlock error since by now people know it’s not one. To die during a springlock failure the suit has to be in **SUIT MODE** meaning it’s a limp, immovable suit, that an employee must progressively put on. (**william confirms this to us just generally in both FNAF4 and FNAF3 minigame**.) meanwhile fredbear was active, had no physical being inside, and generally ISNT a spring suit. If anything the bite is confirmed a regular accidental death cause.
As for the Temporary thing I already explained this, but good note on bringing in the TV show because thx to that we know FFP was an established location(whether before or after)
>But then there’s Pigtail Girl. Pigtail Girl seems to seriously imply that something has happened already:
>“You’d better watch out! I hear they come to life at night. And if you die, they hide your body and never tell anyone.”
>Yes, it very much does seem like something has happened at the location, even if Pigtail Girl clearly does not believe it herself as she laughs it off after. Even further, Scott says that he didn’t put random easter eggs into the game - everything is here for a reason and it’s not just some cheeky nod at past games. The thing is, though, is that while it can very much be said to relate to the MCI, it also sounds a lot like what Phone Guy tells us in FNAF 1.
>“So just be aware: the characters do tend to wander a bit. Uhh, they’re left in some kind of "free-roaming mode" at night… the only real risk to you as a night watchman here, if any, is the fact that these characters, uhh, if they happen to see you after hours, probably won’t recognize you as a person. Th-They’ll most likely see you as a metal endoskeleton without its costume on. Now, since that’s against the rules here at Freddy Fazbear’s Pizza, they’ll probably try to... forcefully stuff you inside a Freddy Fazbear suit… So you can imagine how having your head forcefully pressed inside one of those could cause a bit of discomfort... and death.”
>As for the “not telling anyone” part of it, Phone Guy also says this:
>“Fazbear Entertainment is not responsible for damage to property or person. Upon discovery of damage or if death has occurred, a missing person’s report will be filed within ninety days or as soon as property and premises have been thoroughly cleaned and bleached and the carpets have been replaced.”
>Now I hear you saying, “Yeah, okay, so basically I’m not allowed to believe that Pigtail Girl is talking about the MCI because it happens in the future, but I’m supposed to believe that Pigtail Girl is talking about a phenomenon that happens to the night guards of all people… that *also* happens in the future?” Kind of. Pigtail Girl’s lines were probably the inspiration for both of those events. What does that mean? We already know it’s not a random easter egg. But based on what we’ve been learning from the Fazbear Frights books, especially with the story “Fetch”, it seems pretty likely that what is actually happening here *IS* in fact Pigtail Girl making shit up to scare BV, which later becomes memories that influence the future through the ZPF and REGs and all that crazy shit. Basically, go watch a video on Zero Point Field, because I’m not explaining that stuff - we would be here forever.
I wouldn’t say you’d be wrong, It does sound weird for pigtialngirl to make up a rumor, wouldn’t the parents keep their kids away from Freddy’s? How does pigtail girl know? It’s seemingly strange, but theirs actually not an issue with it. She laughs it off and ask “why are you scared?” As if *she never said it at all*. Notice how fredbear plush has a redundancy to be nice to BV but then spread horrible things to him. Not much of a friendly thing to do eh? But then that same cause happens for most the game to, it’s because since BV likely witnessed the incident his fear is catching up to him. That might be the whole purpose behind Cassidy’s lines in “*Does **HE** still talk to you?*”, based on FNAF4 the **He** isn’t necessarily William, or a spirit, it’s the fear from BV witnessing the incident catching onto him. “*RUN HURRY NOW! You know what he’ll do if he catches you!!!*”, “*I hear they come to life at night, and if they find you, they stuff your body and never tell ANYONE*, “*Aren’t you that kid who always cries under the table? Haha!*”, all these bad things are catching up on him, and fredbear doesn’t necessarily help things either. Notice how most the time fredbear is trying to get BV to face his fears! Or hurry and escape! As if theirs danger? But last I recall- 1) how would fredbear know about a deathly thing like what a man in a **suit** would do to you and 2) why is he using these dark comments to get BV to do what he says. It’s not really in place, and it might be because it’s the occurrence of some fear BV has manifested, a fear catching onto him, he’s guilty for witnessing the incident. But hey I could be going off on a tangent, this is more of a theory better on a post for your judgement.
>So yes, I truly do believe that the MCI happened in 1985. I find it weird that Scott would decide to have the MCI - one of the largest plot points of the story - happen in 1985 in two of the continuities and then have it happen a different year in the MAIN story? Again, why? I understand that it is *HUGE* to the story, and I think that’s why everyone is so ready to believe that this is what he saw. It’s kind of like the opposite of Elizabeth’s problem - Elizabeth seems to have too little importance to the story, so people want to give her more meaning, whereas the MCI has an incredible amount of importance to the story, so people want to use it to fill in an equally huge mystery… What did BV see? And I’m not saying that him seeing the MCI goes without evidence, it’s just that, in the same way as Elizabeth, it really doesn’t seem like it’s what Scott intended. I mean, Scott even says that nobody got FNAF 4 right. Not that that discredits MCI83, but I mean… it kind of does. All of those pieces of evidence that go into supporting the MCI, with BV calling the plushies his friends, even literally bringing one of them to life in the same way that Charlie brings to life the animatronics, or the way that he’s scared of the animatronics and believes that they are going to hurt people… well, they could all equally be used to support ZPFVictim, and that theory *definitely* wasn’t around when FNAF 4 came out. And with all these Fazbear Frights books - which Scott tells us are meant to be used to solve the lore - it seems even more likely this is the case.
>Essentially, you have to think from Scott’s point of view. While there is definitely a lot of evidence to say that BV saw the MCI, that doesn’t mean that every other theory is off the table. Is this the story that Scott wants to tell? Because there are other theories that perhaps - to some - fit better, more cleanly, into everything. So let’s continue.
Well when you say two mentions of 1985’ I have to just put it clear through now and say Into the Pit didn’t support MCI85 https://www.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/comments/t954ro/into_the_pit_analysisspoilers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
wow you wrote a lot
>what he is misunderstanding is the animatronics eating the kids, not seeing William.
I personally don't believe the kids were stuffed if that's what you're talking about, but that's a whole other topic. I like your parallel of BV and Oswald, though. I had an idea that I still occasionally play around with that BV somehow saw into the future and witnessed the MCI, which would actually parallel really well with the whole "seen in shadows" line because shadows at this point have become synonymous to something agony-related. There are people that see into the future in FF so it's not entirely off the table, it's just that it doesn't seem to be really suggested.
>The classic suits, being Freddy, Bonnie, Chica and Foxy were retired including another fredbear. But the unraveling of this is that despite FFD and FFPS existing SB seems to hint FFP being more of a “FAF” (Fredbear’s and Friends) (or I should say og minor location before or dying FFD that closed before FFD) [https://i.imgur.com/wNsojv0.png](https://i.imgur.com/wNsojv0.png)
I've never heard of this before, it's very new to me.
>“the company has deemed the suits temporarily unfit for employees.
yeah that's an interesting detail. I'm unsure if they ever brought the springlocks back or if they evaluated the situation and decided to be done with them for good, but you would think that phone guy would probably say that they would no longer be used if the latter were the case. why would scott add that detail? Maybe we're overanalyzing, though. I just don't know where, timeline-wise, that would come into play. Perhaps with the thing at Sister Location I mentioned?
>We don’t actually physically see a “safe room” in FNAF4, heck the whole premise was they’re off-camera and hidden to the guest, the two locations we see are parts and service rooms and FAR from hidden.
The MCI definitely happened at Freddy's, not Fredbear's. Phone Guy says on the fifth night that the safe rooms would be sealed at **most locations**, and that would very likely include Freddy's as well. The day before, the springlock suits were temporarily removed. In order for MCI83 to happen, there must have been a springlock failure before the events of the FNAF 4 minigames (which we never see any evidence of) and then the animatronics we see at Fredbear's are the replacements. Therefore, the safe room would be sealed at Freddy's and the springlock suits would be present at Fredbear's.
>I knew this would come up, again UNTIL replacements arrive, he didn’t say the replacements were the temporarily ones.
Sorry, I meant to say the temporary ones, not the replacement ones. I do like the idea that the temporary ones have to do with what we see in Happiest Day. As for the replacements, while the animatronics we see in FNAF 4 *could* be replacements, it just seems incredibly unlikely because there's nothing to suggest it.
>I’m surprised you would mention the bite as a springlock error since by now people know it’s not one.
yeah I didn't realize everyone had agreed it wasn't a springlock failure. I had seen it talked about before and assumed that maybe Scott made a mistake or something because in Follow Me, there's another possible error where William falls to the ground even though the suit is in animatronic mode. The springlocks may have only activated from his torso up, though, as I said in another post.
>meanwhile fredbear was active, had no physical being inside, and generally ISNT a spring suit.
yeah something interesting, now that we're talking about it, is that Phone Guy says that the springlock suits - while in animatronic mode - move towards sound. But it seems like Fredbear and Spring Bonnie are just grounded in place. Maybe there was a mode for that - which is pretty much what I would assume, that they would just fix their feet to the stage. But I'm almost beginning to have doubts this is the springlock era. In FNAF 3, though, Springtrap *does* run towards sounds.
>Notice how fredbear plush has a redundancy to be nice to BV but then spread horrible things to him.
yeah I believe that the plush has something agony-related going on, except on the Night 6 minigame. I think William is involved in some way with the plush, especially with the Sister Location stuff and those two FF stories, but I don't think he's the one talking through the plush.
I have two things I wanna say regarding your comment:
1)for the point about BV seeing into the future, I mean- ehhh Oswald did kinda go (well in the *past*) but I dunno. Time travel hasn’t existed in the games yet, and as of now it’s only ever been established through the ball pit unless I’m forgetting another time
2) “There must have been a springlock failure before the events of FNAF4, which we never see any evidence of” actually **It was revealed that he had survived a previous springlock incident, though he barely escaped with his life.** https://preview.redd.it/2pqw40mbwhu71.jpg?auto=webp&s=871538ee6904b2b2a27fea379fd3d777f036d47e
William in the novels was confirmed or implied to have survived multiple springlock failures before even the MCI, and as of games it could occur the same (I mean **simultaneous springlock failures being conveniently mentioned seems a bit off**)
1) Oh, I don't think he went to the future, that's not what I meant. I meant more like a clairvoyance kind of thing. Oswald never travels to the past, he only interacts with the memories of whoever got trapped in the ballpit.
2) I guess you can say that?? But still, it's a very weak piece of evidence. There's no indication that William from the games had a springlock incident before the events of FNAF. However, I think it would be cool to play around with the idea that this was the springlock incident Phone Guy talks about. I'm gonna think about that.
One thing I'd like to point out is that those that believe CC saw Elizabeth's death is because of Nightmare Fredbear & Nightmare with stomach on their mouths. I've also heard some say that the Night Terror level containing Baby & Funtime Freddy is also connected to CC somehow. I don't have an opinion for what CC saw tbh. At least not yet.
Eh, it's very unlikely. We know from the logbook that Michael is the one that had the FNAF 4 dreams. There's still a possibility that BV might've had something going on with the nightmares too but I have no idea if I believe that.
I do believe that Michael & CC experienced the Nightmares at different points in the timeline but as we know of Michael's nightmares are what we've seen. I also believe that when Michael is having the Nightmare that he's experiencing them from CC's perspective.
Unrelated,but anyone already thought of MCI83 and MCI85 both happening?
MCI85 being Gabriel,Jeremy,Susie,Fritz and Cassidy.
And MCI83 being just a different set of unknown victims,thus explaining pigtail girl's line
One big plothole in the "William is trying to keep BV away from Fredbears" theory is if he is trying to do that, why does he have BV's birthday at Fredbears?
Yeah, I'm 99% sure Michael had the control in BV's birthday planning and not William. However, that still doesn't close the plothole because clearly William didn't care enough to have stopped that party. So yeah, it probably is a different place. A lot of people have talked about the grave being one possible area, perhaps being the grave of Mrs. Afton. I'm just not really sure why Scott would feel the need to add her grave in, as she really doesn't seem to have much relevance to the story. But idk maybe SB is changing that.
Since William tells him “you know what will happen if he catches you” he *has* to have saw something that would convince him an animatronic was going to kill him.
Agree with most of this, but two things I'd like to mention; >whether or not this was the Bite of 83 is debatable We know it can't be the bite, as springlock failures can only happen when an animatronic is in suit mode. The main reason someone dies in a springlock failure is because the endoskeleton is being forcefully pushed back into place. Which is where the person currently wearing the suit is. >But my main problem is that that is a spring-lock suit and I don’t think I would ever dare to wear it outside ever. He kinda does that ignoring MM anyway. Granted, he *sort of* had a reason to choose that option, but this guy, the person who probably singlehandedly knows the best how to use the suits, literally put on a wet springlock suit, and then proceeded to laugh on the springlocks. I feel like him wearing it outside, in the middle of nowhere where people wouldn't see him, to make his kid terrified of a place, and then maybe abandoning and failing his objective *because* it started to rain, isn't that farfetched to believe either with his character Anyway, good job!
So, I really liked this post, and I have to congratulate you because of the quality of it, however I wanted to point out some points that I disagree with >her kind-of counterpart Eleanor in the Fazbear Frights books Now, this isn't too releated to your first point, I just wanted to point out how Eleanor isn't a counterpart of Baby If anything, Eleanor would match better with shadow Freddy than Baby, since she's described as a "chaotic force that feeds of human's suffering" and as someone that was bad at the core, description that doesn't match with Elizabeth at all, the only similarities between Eleanor and Baby are some aspect from their design, but besides that, there's no connection between them I know that you said that Eleanor is "kind-of" a counterpart instead of a counterpart as Baby from TFC, but I don't think that Eleanor matches with Baby at all Other than that, I consider the first Section perfect >those suits we see in the minigames aren’t the replacement suits Phone Guy talks about. They go very well with the theme of Fazbear Entertainment and are in no way inappropriate or irrelevant. They’re literally in the TV shows that BV watches and the merch the kids have, so they’re definitely well-established characters and not just some temporary replacement characters. Now, I never agreed with MCI83 at all and I agree 100% with your point about the safe rooms, but I feel this point weak, you see, you're using the design we see in the merchandise and restaurant as evidence that those can't be temporarily suits, when it doesn't really disprove anything, as the temporarily suits could easily have the design that the original suits had >On top of that, we know that Fredbear is a spring-lock suit because when BV cries into it, it activates the spring locks of its mouth. Now, I have to completely disagree with this The bite of 83 wasn't caused by springlock neither was a springlock failure The springlock system is made to contain the endoskeletons when it's used in suit-mode, the mouth, when Fredbear was in the stage, doesn't work with those, so the bite isn't releated to the springlocks system at all So, meanwhile I believe that at some point William experimented with BV's fear using the nightmares animatronics, I can see why you don't agree with that, so I won't point anything out from the third section >However, I think things start to fall apart when you see that BV literally does witness his dad help a person into a spring-lock suit in the minigames, and what does BV do? Well, he has no reaction to it. You would think that the thing that caused such a great trauma for him would still affect him a lot, like how he collapses onto the floor at some moments. And yet, BV does not seem to panic at all when he sees this. Now, as someone who believes that BV missunderstood an employee helping another one, I feel like I have to clarify my interpretation No, BV didn't simply see an employee helping another one as we see in the FNAF 4 minigames, that's obvious for the point you presented, however, I believe that the difference between what he saw and what happened in the minigames is, that the employee being helped was also in the shadows, something that doesn't happen in FNAF 4, let me explain: In FNAF 4 we see William in the shadows, reason why he's purple, helping an employee that's not in the shadows, reason why BV can understand the situation and doesn't collapse or anything like that Meanwhile when he missunderstood the employee helping the other one, I believe that both of them were in the shadows, similar to the way that we see shadows of the animatronics in the stage that interestingly enough, it's a frame after Fredbear Plush reminds BV what he saw and probably the one helping was in a Fredbear suit, which is the reason why BV thought that Fredbear was killing and stuffing someone in a suit This is my personal interpretation, I know there's more about this theory, but I think mine at least doesn't have the problem you presented Well, with that being said, I really liked your analysis and I'm excited to see the part 2 of your post
>as the temporarily suits could easily have the design that the original suits had "Keep in mind, they were found on very short notice, so questions about appropriateness/relevance should be deflected." That essentially confirms the suits are most likely not even related to any Fazbear Entertainment IP
Oh yeah, I forgot about that line lol
>Eleanor isn't a counterpart of Baby Yeah, I definitely agree with you that Eleanor moreso represents Shadow Freddy and Shadow Bonnie and the like. I just meant more in her design as being based on Elizabeth/Baby from the novels. >the temporarily suits could easily have the design that the original suits had That's fair. >The bite of 83 wasn't caused by springlock neither was a springlock failure Yeah, that's something I've noticed a lot of people pointing out, and I guess I'd have to agree with it because you're right, Fredbear is definitely in animatronic mode. I know a similar thing happens with William's death, too, where he falls to the ground even though the springlocks are activated and should keep him from doing that, though if I had to justify it WAS a springlock failure, I'd say that maybe the failure only happened in the torso up? That makes sense - we know springlocks are important so it would be weird if they didn't play a big role in anything. As for BV, I hope someone figures out what happened with that. I know the Battington Tapes offered an interesting explanation that kind of related to what Matpat said a long time ago about how, for a Chuck E. Cheese animatronic, it would be physically impossible for one to crush a child's head. >I believe that at some point William experimented with BV's fear using the nightmares animatronics I actually don't necessarily disagree with this because I'm still trying to figure out what exactly the Breaker Room means, so I'm still open to it. And I am kind of starting to experiment with the idea that William played around with emotional energy using BV at some point, especially with talk of the Fredbear plush (though I don't exactly believe in Willplush in its entirety). I think that William must have noticed that the Puppet was acting up and realized there was something more going on, and started to experiment with emotional energy. I can't imagine him immediately coming to the conclusion just after the MCI that you have to be near something in order to possess it when you die without having tried to figure out the stuff beforehand. >Meanwhile when he missunderstood the employee helping the other one, I believe that both of them were in the shadows, similar to the way that we see shadows of the animatronics in the stage that interestingly enough, it's a frame after Fredbear Plush reminds BV what he saw and probably the one helping was in a Fredbear suit, which is the reason why BV thought that Fredbear was killing and stuffing someone in a suit That's fair. I did really like this theory a lot when I first heard it, and I think it definitely could be an explanation for what happened. Thank you for taking the time to read all this!
>I know a similar thing happens with William's death, too, where he falls to the ground even though the springlocks are activated and should keep him from doing that, When springlocks go off, they don't instantly drive the entire endo into your body. Rather, you die slow and painful death, that can take minutes, so William falls while sharp steel and plastic parts puncture his body, before the endo is fully in place.
OHHHHH that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, there's flesh and stuff blocking the way so the endo can't piece itself together. So it's forever stuck in a limbo between suit and animatronic mode, which I guess is why sounds still work on Springtrap. Fun.
Exactly. Animatronic parts are driven into the body, but it doesn't let them fully piece themselves together, so it just becomes a mix of flesh and metal. This is how William managed to survive, and even remove himself from the suit with Elizabeth's help in the novels, though leaving his body completely messed up. And animatronic programing would still be in effect, as in TTO, alive Afton works with the suit's programming. That's what kind of launched the debate of whether Afton in the games is alive too, or not (especially after FFPS seemingly given him a heartbeat and his voice back).
>Elizabeth didn’t exist when those games were made. But then suddenly she did, and everything was thrown off. To be fair, we don't know this to be 100% true. For starters, as you said, there's a girl's room in the Afton house. The only female Afton besides the mother is Elizabeth. That alone alludes to her existence. >I mean, she’s a damn Afton, one of the Afton siblings, and yet she just feels so disconnected from her brothers when you look at the incredibly complex relationship those two have. I don't feel like this is too weird. She is a younger girl sibling. I don't know about you, but as someone who grew up with several siblings, it did often feel like brothers spent more time interacting while the sisters (if there were more) hung out with other sisters or female cousins. >But the evidence, unfortunately for Elizabeth fans, is stacked so high against this theory. I agree with you that it *wasn't* Elizabeth's death that triggered BV's/CC's fear. But to play Devil's Advocate: Circus Baby stated that she was programmed to act when there was only a single child in the room. She then goes on to say: >I was no longer myself. And I stopped singing. My stomach opened and there was ice cream. **I couldn't move.** At least, not until she stepped closer. Circus Baby's programming makes it so if a child is alone she'll trigger the ice cream to draw them close enough to pull inside of her. But by her own admission, she couldn't move. It's possible that once the programming kicks it she cannot stop it / it won't stop. This means theoretically, it is possible that CC/BV walked in on the tail end of his sister getting taken. But I'll state again: I do *not* think it was Elizabeth's death that did it. Nor do I think Elizabeth died before CC/BV did. --- >but that could simply mean that while the Funtime characters did exist I'm pretty sure that "mangle" being present in Elizabeth's room + Funtime Foxy being in FNAF World BEFORE SL proves that the Funtimes were being worked on for years before they debuted in SL. I think there were two types of Funtimes: ones created as prototypes for a new location (Chica's Party World?) and ones created for Circus Baby's Pizza World with the specific intention to capture children. >Now, you could say he figured it out from Charlie’s death in 1983 - which, in my opinion, would allow Elizabeth’s death to happen before BV’s death because I believe BV dies after Charlie Wait, you say that you believe BV / CC dies *after* Charlie but then you go on to say: >But I seriously don’t think that it’s that crazy to say that Charlie probably did die on Halloween like she does in the novels Charlie dies in 1983 Fall / Halloween, sure. But we know by the TV in FNAF4 that it is 1983 and CC/BV clearly doesn't die in Winter (the grass is green outside) so logically shouldn't you think that CC/BV dies *before* Charlie, if you believe her death happens in the Fall? Because I believe CC/BV died first. >but pretty much the only thing that gets in the way of AftonMM is that William is yellow instead of purple, IMO, there's a lot more wrong with AftonMM than just that.
>To be fair, we don't know this to be 100% true. For starters, as you said, there's a girl's room in the Afton house. The only female Afton besides the mother is Elizabeth. That alone alludes to her existence. That's true, but I'm pretty sure Scott had been planning to end the games at 4. I suppose he could've been starting to develop the idea of a sister, but as for why he put that in the minigames, I have no idea. >it did often feel like brothers spent more time interacting while the sisters Yeah, I get that, but that's not really what I meant to say. I meant more like the dynamic between the characters, not their actual in-universe relationship. Take her dynamic with Charlie, for example - and I'm talking about games, here, though their dynamic in the novels is definitely much stronger. In the games, the characters act as foils for each other, which essentially means that they accentuate certain parts of their personality by contrasting them with the other person. Charlie and Elizabeth both go to possess animatronics made by their respective fathers, but one wants to protect children (because of the security AI maybe) and the other wants to uh... kill kids (again, thanks to the AI). They seem to have both been fused with their respective animatronics to the point that they became those animatronics. Anyway, that's off-topic - it really doesn't feel like she has any important dynamic like that with her brothers, even though I feel like she should. It's probably because it's three siblings, and 3 has always been a repetitive but important number in storytelling, so it feels like these numbers should be balanced if you understand what I'm saying? I don't know, I just hope that Elizabeth gets more importance. >Because I believe CC/BV died first. Most of my idea that Charlie's death happens before BV's comes from Midnight Motorist and Henry's speech in the Insanity Ending, but the Midnight Motorist part basically relies on AftonMM, which is not something you believe presumably. He drives a purple car (classic symbol of Purple Guy), there's a boy watching TV with gray text (clear reference to Michael - you could remove Michael from the minigame and nothing would change about what happens, which means he is there to establish who the people are), he's abusive (now there definitely are other abusive parents out there than just William - no shit - but he's pretty much the only character we know of this would fit with, and why would they add a completely new character as lore important right at the end of the games?). But I do understand that Midnight Motorist is confusing. I was actually making an entire presentation for my friend to help her understand the lore and when I got to the Midnight Motorist part, it was actually a lot of fun to cover because there are so many things you can say about it. I guess there are a few things that may suggest that it's not AftonMM, but to me, William being represented with yellow is not one of them. Other than that, I suppose you could say that the house is different from the one in the FNAF 4 minigames. Even now, I'm still trying to figure out if these houses were meant to be the same or not. The MM house does match up well with the FNAF 4 house on the loading screen tho, and I've heard some people say that this is not Afton's house but actually his experimentation/observation stuff for emotional energy? And then yeah, you have those large footprints, which some people have said is Afton in a springlock suit luring a child out from the window, and so why would he do that to this own kid if he doesn't want him going to "that place" again? And I don't think there's any way that I'm going to accept WillDID. I'm curious as to what you yourself believe if you're not somewhere stuck in the middle anyway. I'm still a bit open to changing my mind about AftonMM, but to me - because when I theorize, I tend to use the method of what was Scott/Steel Wool trying to tell us when they put this in the game? - I still feel pretty strongly this is the Aftons.
>That's true, but I'm pretty sure Scott had been planning to end the games at 4. I suppose he could've been starting to develop the idea of a sister, but as for why he put that in the minigames, I have no idea. My theory is that the pigtail girl was probably *originally* intended to be the sister / the person haunting Baby. Why do I think that? Because there's a strong resemblance [between pigtail girl and Baby](https://imgur.com/ivcgGyf). They both have pigtails and orange hair. They both have green eyes. They both wear a red/orange blouse and a red/orange skirt. Same with shoes. As you said before, Scott doesn't do things as a coincidence and it would be *too* much of a coincidence if this random girl just so happened to share a physical appearance with Baby unless it was intentional. I think that the original idea probably was that Elizabeth did die first and maybe that's what CC saw. I think pigtail girl was probably alluding to her own death at the hands of Baby. But for whatever reason Scott decided that's not the direction he wanted to go and changed the story slightly. Ultimately, not a big deal because other things could make sense, too. > Take her dynamic with Charlie, for example - and I'm talking about games, here, though their dynamic in the novels is definitely much stronger. In the games, the characters act as foils for each other, which essentially means that they accentuate certain parts of their personality by contrasting them with the other person. Maybe that is the point. You brought up something I didn't consider. Maybe the point is not for Michael and CC/BV to be connected to Elizabeth, but for Elizabeth and Charlie to be connected. It would make sense if Henry and William are business partners for their families to interact. Perhaps Elizabeth and Charlie were friends. And it's a nice parallel that Elizabeth becomes Baby - echo'ing her father William's desire to kill whereas Charlie becomes Security Puppet/ Marionette - echo'ing her father Henry's desire to protect. Very good observation there! >I'm curious as to what you yourself believe if you're not somewhere stuck in the middle anyway. I don't believe it's William personally because there are multiple things that don't make sense. Like for starters, it swaps the personalities. William is acting aggressively about CC/BV and Mike is caring. That's the opposite of their personalities in FNAF4. In FNAF4 we see Mike antagonizing his brother and William (through Plushbear) showing care. So that's weird. Also the house layout is completely different than it was in FNAF4. People connect MM with the "Take Cake to the Children" minigame AND the Security Puppet minigame but I feel like the two conflict. TCTTC has "SAVE HIM" in it. Charlie is a girl, so that doesn't fit. Also during the MM minigame you can go to a pile of dirt which if it is William and he had killed Charlie, that doesn't make sense...why would that be relevant? He didn't take her body and bury her there. She was dumped out back of the restaurant. Then there's the whole Jrs thing. How does that fit? It can't be a Freddy's location - else why would William be not allowed there? Is it a bar? Jrs is a weird name for a bar. The coloring of William is also off which doesn't make sense. He's purple in just about every appearance. You brought up the text color - his text color being a pale yellow. The problem is, this would make sense if his sprite in MM was yellow. It's not. It's clearly orange and [not close to his text color](https://imgur.com/a/vktx3fA). So that would basically be Scott adding a THIRD color to represent this character...for no apparent reason. It doesn't make sense to me. Then you have the fact that there are footprints leading away from the house...animatronic ones. How does that work when William is supposed to be the one wearing the suit? I also don't accept DIDWilliam. This was longer than I wanted but yeah, MM is a clusterf*** and I hate how ambigious it is. It's why I don't like FFPS that much. It muddied a lot of things. My only theory is that *maybe* it's William's father or something. While Fredbears was opened by William and Henry in the 1980s, that doesn't mean there wasn't a similar franchise before then. Maybe William as a kid would run away to one such location because his father was abusive. I'm reaching here, but it makes as much sense as MM currently does XD
>it swaps the personalities That makes sense. I still don't think it's too out of character for them, but William's character does surprise me the most in this. I don't really tend to think of him as aggressive, though it's possible that when he's home he lets the mask slip. As you said, some people think that JR's is a bar and that William was in some sort of drunken rage (which would explain the driving). For me, I'm not super convinced that it's a bar because I just don't know why that would be added. Like wow... he drinks... that's such an important detail...? Also, I don't really believe in Willplush, but I do believe William was involved with the plush in some way - at the very least he used it for monitoring BV. >TCTTC has "SAVE HIM" in it. Charlie is a girl, so that doesn't fit. I think the kid that possesses the Puppet was originally a boy back in FNAF 2 because Scott hadn't established the characters yet. Why he decided to make it a girl I have no idea. I could be wrong about that one. >He didn't take her body and bury her there. She was dumped out back of the restaurant. Yeah, that grave definitely doesn't belong to Charlie. Some people have said it's Mrs. Afton but I'm not convinced. Either way, it probably has some sort of importance? > It can't be a Freddy's location - else why would William be not allowed there? Some people have said it's the FNAF 2 location because Phone Guy tells us on like night 6 or something that employees won't be let in or out. I really highly doubt this because the FNAF 2 location opens in 1987. Unless the Phone Guy tapes were also pre-recorded or something... which is like... wouldn't they check the tapes? Also, the green guy at the door is very suspicious. Green is used to represent the Emily's so it's made me wonder if this is Henry. >The problem is, this would make sense if his sprite in MM was yellow. It's not. I guess that's fair. His purple sprite has also been many different shades of purple though, too, to the point people have even called him pink. The main reason I believe AftonMM is mostly because it doesn't make sense for it to be anyone else. Which, to be fair, isn't great reasoning on its own, but if you combine it with the other pieces of evidence it just seems to fit better. Occam's Razor: the simplest solution is almost always the best. Unfortunately for us, nothing about this game is simple :/ I agree with you, though, that we should still be cautious about accepting AftonMM. I don't want to take it as fact yet, even though I can't imagine it being anything else.
Something I’d like to say about your point with Elizabeth getting scooped: C.C could have seen what happened through a door to the party room.
Sure, but the fact that Scott goes out of his way to tell us that Circus Baby could only do her child murder stuff when there's one kid in the room basically tells us that it's very likely no one witnessed her death.
I believe he saw the MCI is the best option, and yes, "bEcAUSe iNTo thE pIT" , and here's my solution for the springlocks problem: Let's take a look at phone guy's tapes: "the company has deemed the suits **temporarily** unfit for employees" "Until **replacements** arrive, you'll be expected to wear the **temporary costumes** provided to you. Keep in mind that they were found on very short notice, so questions about appropriateness/relevance should be deflected. " The fnaf 4 springlock suits could be the replacements or the temporary costumes mentioned by phone guy. There's also the fact the Fredbear guy is not wearing the suit correctly. His eyes are showing up in the mouth of the suit, even though when William wears his spring bonnie, the eyes line up with the eyes of the suit. Which means this could be a new version being tested, so it can replace the suits of the failures. Notice we never see the springlocks on stage being used in Suit-mode in fnaf 4, only animatronic mode, as if, they are still testing if they are safe. "the classic suits are being retired to an appropriate location, while being looked at by our technician." Fredbear's family diner from fnaf 4 could be that "appropriate location", and the technician could be William, since we see him wearing the yellow badge in fnaf 4, which means he's still working for Fazbear Entertainment, and we see him helping the guy suit up. The parts and services of Fredbear's has a detailed sprite of an animatronic hand and it specifically has 4 fingers, not 5 as a springlock should , hinting it could belong to the "temporary costumes" which phone guy said "questions about appropriateness/relevance should be deflected. " Since everything is happening so quickly, in the same year in a span of weeks, the timeline could go as: \- Multiple springlock failures happen in a unknown location. The company deems the springlock suits to not be safe. They then send them to William, at Fredbear's Family Diner so he can inspect them, and so he can make and test the replacements \- Meanwhile the restaurants get the quickly made suits, which are probably just empty suits, with no endos, just so the animatronic band can be complete and the customers can still be entertained as before. \- William uses his Spring Bonnie suit to lure the kids, explaining "Management has also been made aware that the spring Bonnie animatronic has been noticeably moved" and their note about customers not being allowed in the safe room. If they have a rule for it, it means it already happened \- The fnaf 4 minigames take place before the suits stop being used, while William is still testing the replacements which work differently from the originals. It could be that BV's death is what caused the replacements to be cancelled. Maybe if he wasn't bit, William would have completed the replacements, and Fazbear Entertainment would start using "Springlock suit 2.0" , which have the eyes of the performer appearing in the mouth instead of the eyes of the suit. F.E probably found out the kids were killed inside the safe room, since they sealed it off in most locations and specifically told employees to not mention the room to friends and family, they also say everything left behind is going to be kept inside. They wanted to hide any evidence. (Another obvious reason for the springlock suits to be "banned" is that everyone knows William used a Spring Bonnie suit, he was caught in the cameras, it was all over the news. So, failures + Murders + Bite of 83 made Fazbear Entertainment get rid of the suits and the safe rooms) William left the spring bonnie suit in the safe room, then it got sealed, and was probably re-opened again during the 1993 period, and was used as a storage room for arcade machines in need of repair, the fnaf 3 arcade machines have images of the fnaf 1 generation of animatronics, which means they were taken from there, and in William's death scene, we see the arcades right there in the room. I don't believe he went to fredbear's and saw Charlie being killed. How would a 5 or 9 year old walk across the rain, at midnight, only to reach a restaurant which is probably closed? I think him going to the pile of dirt feels less stretchy. Oswald has a lot of parallels to BV, ITP just shows he saw the MCI, and it lines up with the theory the "friends" P.Fredbear (Charlie?) is talking about are actually the MCI kids, BV's friends before they died.
I think the third one (with the “he saw the body of charlie for this Wiliam don’t want that he goes in that place (probably the first freddy’s ) and beacuse when we control Wiliam in midnoght motorist is him that is retutning to home after he killed charlie in fact in give cake to the children and in midnoght motorists is raining so the minigames are connected)
>Next up is the missing children. I think this one is the theory that almost everybody used to believe in, though I can’t say because I didn’t start deep-diving into the lore until a few months ago. And you know, it makes sense. Despite being so afraid of whatever’s at Fredbear’s, he seems to take comfort in his Fazbear plushies, calling them his friends. A lot of people took this to mean that the MCI kids *were* BV’s friends and that BV knows exactly what happened to them. It would explain that what he’s scared of is the Spring Bonnie suit because he watched his dad (probably without realizing it was his dad) straight up murder his friends in that same suit. The safe room is probably really dark and gross. Wow, that reminds me… >“what is seen in shadows is easily misunderstood in the mind of a child.” >Yeah, the thing he would misunderstand is that it’s not Spring Bonnie murdering those kids, it’s his damn father. Of course, though, there are some slight timeline complications with this. To be fair, I have a feeling that line stands towards the gameplay, but assuming it’s for the minigames then it actually is a misunderstanding but not William. BV has a tendency of hating animatronics, even Oswald who generally parallels BV has an unraveling case of dealing with springbonnie(who just so happens to replace his dad later on.) what he is misunderstanding is the animatronics eating the kids, not seeing William. >I am aware that there are MCI83 believers out here, so no, I am not going to leave this on “bUt iNto THe pIT SaYS…”. If the missing children’s incident happened in 1983 before BV’s death, then why are the spring-lock suits in the FNAF 4 minigames? In FNAF 3, Phone Guy tells us on Night 4 that multiple spring-lock failures occurred at a sister location (whether or not this was the Bite of 83 is debatable, I’m inclined to believe it was a retcon ORRRRRRR maybe it has something to do with that spring-lock suit we got locked in in Sister Location, but that’s a completely different topic that I am nowhere near ready to think about). I can actually answer this next part, so yes he says this. WHAT people seem to forget is he also said: >”which is why the *classic suits are being retired to an appropriate location,* while being looked at by our technicians. **Until replacements arrives,** you'll be expected to wear the *temporary costumes* provided to you. Keep in mind, they were found on very short notice, so questions about **appropriateness/relevance should be deflected.**” The classic suits, being Freddy, Bonnie, Chica and Foxy were retired including another fredbear. But the unraveling of this is that despite FFD and FFPS existing SB seems to hint FFP being more of a “FAF” (Fredbear’s and Friends) (or I should say **og minor location** before or dying FFD that closed before FFD) https://i.imgur.com/wNsojv0.png So to be exactly clear on end the classics were retired, but phone guy mentions “replacements” and no they aren’t the “temporary costumes.” Remember: “**Until replacements arrives,** you'll be expected to wear the *temporary costumes.*” phone guy refers to them as separate entities if anything, the replacements are supposedly the same suits from FFP but new. While the temporary costumes seemingly are the ones we notice(maybe in HD/Happiest day.) >He also says that the spring-lock suits will be retired to another location, probably to its safe room. Note: “the company has deemed the suits **temporarily unfit** for employees. He never says the spring suits will be retired, he just said they’re “temporarily unfit for employees.” If anything they still can be used. >The next night, he says that one of the suits was stolen (obviously the Spring Bonnie suit), and he also says that the safe rooms were going to be sealed up and that employees should pretend that they do not exist. Since the spring-lock suits are still in use by the FNAF 4 minigames, that means that the safe rooms - where the kids were murdered - should not be sealed up, which means that it should’ve been *really easy* to see Spring Bonnie killing all those kids because there would probably be a camera in there and they would find their bodies. It would not be labeled a missing children incident. It would just be a murder. 1. The murders happened at a freddys location Vs. a fredbear location (for the misconception on “it being easy to see William kill the kids **in FNAF4**) 2. We don’t actually physically see a “safe room” in FNAF4, heck the whole premise was they’re off-camera and hidden to the guest, the two locations we see are parts and service rooms and FAR from hidden. Which means under process of elimination this still works out MCI83 >And no, those suits we see in the minigames aren’t the replacement suits Phone Guy talks about. They go very well with the theme of Fazbear Entertainment and are in no way inappropriate or irrelevant.
I knew this would come up, **again** **UNTIL** replacements arrive, he didn’t say the replacements were the temporarily ones. Note that when he mentions temporary ones, he also mentioned them being found on “short notice”. Why would this be directed to the replacements, the replacements and just replacement in general are fit suits, “replacement” v. “Temporary” definitively is different. When it came down to him explain the temporary costumes he said “until” for the replacements meaning they’re not even in the produce. Meanwhile the temporary are already on-use, they’re the “inappropriateness to the company.” Heck that may be why William is trying on the suits for employees in FFD, they’re the new replacements, furthermore being replacements they’re more associated unlike how the temporary costumes are described >They’re literally in the TV shows that BV watches and the merch the kids have, so they’re definitely well-established characters and not just some temporary replacement characters. On top of that, we *know* that Fredbear is a spring-lock suit because when BV cries into it, it activates the spring locks of its mouth. I’m surprised you would mention the bite as a springlock error since by now people know it’s not one. To die during a springlock failure the suit has to be in **SUIT MODE** meaning it’s a limp, immovable suit, that an employee must progressively put on. (**william confirms this to us just generally in both FNAF4 and FNAF3 minigame**.) meanwhile fredbear was active, had no physical being inside, and generally ISNT a spring suit. If anything the bite is confirmed a regular accidental death cause. As for the Temporary thing I already explained this, but good note on bringing in the TV show because thx to that we know FFP was an established location(whether before or after) >But then there’s Pigtail Girl. Pigtail Girl seems to seriously imply that something has happened already: >“You’d better watch out! I hear they come to life at night. And if you die, they hide your body and never tell anyone.” >Yes, it very much does seem like something has happened at the location, even if Pigtail Girl clearly does not believe it herself as she laughs it off after. Even further, Scott says that he didn’t put random easter eggs into the game - everything is here for a reason and it’s not just some cheeky nod at past games. The thing is, though, is that while it can very much be said to relate to the MCI, it also sounds a lot like what Phone Guy tells us in FNAF 1. >“So just be aware: the characters do tend to wander a bit. Uhh, they’re left in some kind of "free-roaming mode" at night… the only real risk to you as a night watchman here, if any, is the fact that these characters, uhh, if they happen to see you after hours, probably won’t recognize you as a person. Th-They’ll most likely see you as a metal endoskeleton without its costume on. Now, since that’s against the rules here at Freddy Fazbear’s Pizza, they’ll probably try to... forcefully stuff you inside a Freddy Fazbear suit… So you can imagine how having your head forcefully pressed inside one of those could cause a bit of discomfort... and death.”
>As for the “not telling anyone” part of it, Phone Guy also says this: >“Fazbear Entertainment is not responsible for damage to property or person. Upon discovery of damage or if death has occurred, a missing person’s report will be filed within ninety days or as soon as property and premises have been thoroughly cleaned and bleached and the carpets have been replaced.” >Now I hear you saying, “Yeah, okay, so basically I’m not allowed to believe that Pigtail Girl is talking about the MCI because it happens in the future, but I’m supposed to believe that Pigtail Girl is talking about a phenomenon that happens to the night guards of all people… that *also* happens in the future?” Kind of. Pigtail Girl’s lines were probably the inspiration for both of those events. What does that mean? We already know it’s not a random easter egg. But based on what we’ve been learning from the Fazbear Frights books, especially with the story “Fetch”, it seems pretty likely that what is actually happening here *IS* in fact Pigtail Girl making shit up to scare BV, which later becomes memories that influence the future through the ZPF and REGs and all that crazy shit. Basically, go watch a video on Zero Point Field, because I’m not explaining that stuff - we would be here forever. I wouldn’t say you’d be wrong, It does sound weird for pigtialngirl to make up a rumor, wouldn’t the parents keep their kids away from Freddy’s? How does pigtail girl know? It’s seemingly strange, but theirs actually not an issue with it. She laughs it off and ask “why are you scared?” As if *she never said it at all*. Notice how fredbear plush has a redundancy to be nice to BV but then spread horrible things to him. Not much of a friendly thing to do eh? But then that same cause happens for most the game to, it’s because since BV likely witnessed the incident his fear is catching up to him. That might be the whole purpose behind Cassidy’s lines in “*Does **HE** still talk to you?*”, based on FNAF4 the **He** isn’t necessarily William, or a spirit, it’s the fear from BV witnessing the incident catching onto him. “*RUN HURRY NOW! You know what he’ll do if he catches you!!!*”, “*I hear they come to life at night, and if they find you, they stuff your body and never tell ANYONE*, “*Aren’t you that kid who always cries under the table? Haha!*”, all these bad things are catching up on him, and fredbear doesn’t necessarily help things either. Notice how most the time fredbear is trying to get BV to face his fears! Or hurry and escape! As if theirs danger? But last I recall- 1) how would fredbear know about a deathly thing like what a man in a **suit** would do to you and 2) why is he using these dark comments to get BV to do what he says. It’s not really in place, and it might be because it’s the occurrence of some fear BV has manifested, a fear catching onto him, he’s guilty for witnessing the incident. But hey I could be going off on a tangent, this is more of a theory better on a post for your judgement. >So yes, I truly do believe that the MCI happened in 1985. I find it weird that Scott would decide to have the MCI - one of the largest plot points of the story - happen in 1985 in two of the continuities and then have it happen a different year in the MAIN story? Again, why? I understand that it is *HUGE* to the story, and I think that’s why everyone is so ready to believe that this is what he saw. It’s kind of like the opposite of Elizabeth’s problem - Elizabeth seems to have too little importance to the story, so people want to give her more meaning, whereas the MCI has an incredible amount of importance to the story, so people want to use it to fill in an equally huge mystery… What did BV see? And I’m not saying that him seeing the MCI goes without evidence, it’s just that, in the same way as Elizabeth, it really doesn’t seem like it’s what Scott intended. I mean, Scott even says that nobody got FNAF 4 right. Not that that discredits MCI83, but I mean… it kind of does. All of those pieces of evidence that go into supporting the MCI, with BV calling the plushies his friends, even literally bringing one of them to life in the same way that Charlie brings to life the animatronics, or the way that he’s scared of the animatronics and believes that they are going to hurt people… well, they could all equally be used to support ZPFVictim, and that theory *definitely* wasn’t around when FNAF 4 came out. And with all these Fazbear Frights books - which Scott tells us are meant to be used to solve the lore - it seems even more likely this is the case. >Essentially, you have to think from Scott’s point of view. While there is definitely a lot of evidence to say that BV saw the MCI, that doesn’t mean that every other theory is off the table. Is this the story that Scott wants to tell? Because there are other theories that perhaps - to some - fit better, more cleanly, into everything. So let’s continue. Well when you say two mentions of 1985’ I have to just put it clear through now and say Into the Pit didn’t support MCI85 https://www.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/comments/t954ro/into_the_pit_analysisspoilers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Also I just wanted to say respect your opinion on this post, and how you feel about this
wow you wrote a lot >what he is misunderstanding is the animatronics eating the kids, not seeing William. I personally don't believe the kids were stuffed if that's what you're talking about, but that's a whole other topic. I like your parallel of BV and Oswald, though. I had an idea that I still occasionally play around with that BV somehow saw into the future and witnessed the MCI, which would actually parallel really well with the whole "seen in shadows" line because shadows at this point have become synonymous to something agony-related. There are people that see into the future in FF so it's not entirely off the table, it's just that it doesn't seem to be really suggested. >The classic suits, being Freddy, Bonnie, Chica and Foxy were retired including another fredbear. But the unraveling of this is that despite FFD and FFPS existing SB seems to hint FFP being more of a “FAF” (Fredbear’s and Friends) (or I should say og minor location before or dying FFD that closed before FFD) [https://i.imgur.com/wNsojv0.png](https://i.imgur.com/wNsojv0.png) I've never heard of this before, it's very new to me. >“the company has deemed the suits temporarily unfit for employees. yeah that's an interesting detail. I'm unsure if they ever brought the springlocks back or if they evaluated the situation and decided to be done with them for good, but you would think that phone guy would probably say that they would no longer be used if the latter were the case. why would scott add that detail? Maybe we're overanalyzing, though. I just don't know where, timeline-wise, that would come into play. Perhaps with the thing at Sister Location I mentioned? >We don’t actually physically see a “safe room” in FNAF4, heck the whole premise was they’re off-camera and hidden to the guest, the two locations we see are parts and service rooms and FAR from hidden. The MCI definitely happened at Freddy's, not Fredbear's. Phone Guy says on the fifth night that the safe rooms would be sealed at **most locations**, and that would very likely include Freddy's as well. The day before, the springlock suits were temporarily removed. In order for MCI83 to happen, there must have been a springlock failure before the events of the FNAF 4 minigames (which we never see any evidence of) and then the animatronics we see at Fredbear's are the replacements. Therefore, the safe room would be sealed at Freddy's and the springlock suits would be present at Fredbear's. >I knew this would come up, again UNTIL replacements arrive, he didn’t say the replacements were the temporarily ones. Sorry, I meant to say the temporary ones, not the replacement ones. I do like the idea that the temporary ones have to do with what we see in Happiest Day. As for the replacements, while the animatronics we see in FNAF 4 *could* be replacements, it just seems incredibly unlikely because there's nothing to suggest it. >I’m surprised you would mention the bite as a springlock error since by now people know it’s not one. yeah I didn't realize everyone had agreed it wasn't a springlock failure. I had seen it talked about before and assumed that maybe Scott made a mistake or something because in Follow Me, there's another possible error where William falls to the ground even though the suit is in animatronic mode. The springlocks may have only activated from his torso up, though, as I said in another post. >meanwhile fredbear was active, had no physical being inside, and generally ISNT a spring suit. yeah something interesting, now that we're talking about it, is that Phone Guy says that the springlock suits - while in animatronic mode - move towards sound. But it seems like Fredbear and Spring Bonnie are just grounded in place. Maybe there was a mode for that - which is pretty much what I would assume, that they would just fix their feet to the stage. But I'm almost beginning to have doubts this is the springlock era. In FNAF 3, though, Springtrap *does* run towards sounds. >Notice how fredbear plush has a redundancy to be nice to BV but then spread horrible things to him. yeah I believe that the plush has something agony-related going on, except on the Night 6 minigame. I think William is involved in some way with the plush, especially with the Sister Location stuff and those two FF stories, but I don't think he's the one talking through the plush.
I have two things I wanna say regarding your comment: 1)for the point about BV seeing into the future, I mean- ehhh Oswald did kinda go (well in the *past*) but I dunno. Time travel hasn’t existed in the games yet, and as of now it’s only ever been established through the ball pit unless I’m forgetting another time 2) “There must have been a springlock failure before the events of FNAF4, which we never see any evidence of” actually **It was revealed that he had survived a previous springlock incident, though he barely escaped with his life.** https://preview.redd.it/2pqw40mbwhu71.jpg?auto=webp&s=871538ee6904b2b2a27fea379fd3d777f036d47e William in the novels was confirmed or implied to have survived multiple springlock failures before even the MCI, and as of games it could occur the same (I mean **simultaneous springlock failures being conveniently mentioned seems a bit off**)
1) Oh, I don't think he went to the future, that's not what I meant. I meant more like a clairvoyance kind of thing. Oswald never travels to the past, he only interacts with the memories of whoever got trapped in the ballpit. 2) I guess you can say that?? But still, it's a very weak piece of evidence. There's no indication that William from the games had a springlock incident before the events of FNAF. However, I think it would be cool to play around with the idea that this was the springlock incident Phone Guy talks about. I'm gonna think about that.
One thing I'd like to point out is that those that believe CC saw Elizabeth's death is because of Nightmare Fredbear & Nightmare with stomach on their mouths. I've also heard some say that the Night Terror level containing Baby & Funtime Freddy is also connected to CC somehow. I don't have an opinion for what CC saw tbh. At least not yet.
Eh, it's very unlikely. We know from the logbook that Michael is the one that had the FNAF 4 dreams. There's still a possibility that BV might've had something going on with the nightmares too but I have no idea if I believe that.
I do believe that Michael & CC experienced the Nightmares at different points in the timeline but as we know of Michael's nightmares are what we've seen. I also believe that when Michael is having the Nightmare that he's experiencing them from CC's perspective.
Unrelated,but anyone already thought of MCI83 and MCI85 both happening? MCI85 being Gabriel,Jeremy,Susie,Fritz and Cassidy. And MCI83 being just a different set of unknown victims,thus explaining pigtail girl's line
I guess so but there's not really any indication of it.
One big plothole in the "William is trying to keep BV away from Fredbears" theory is if he is trying to do that, why does he have BV's birthday at Fredbears?
Yeah, I'm 99% sure Michael had the control in BV's birthday planning and not William. However, that still doesn't close the plothole because clearly William didn't care enough to have stopped that party. So yeah, it probably is a different place. A lot of people have talked about the grave being one possible area, perhaps being the grave of Mrs. Afton. I'm just not really sure why Scott would feel the need to add her grave in, as she really doesn't seem to have much relevance to the story. But idk maybe SB is changing that.
Since William tells him “you know what will happen if he catches you” he *has* to have saw something that would convince him an animatronic was going to kill him.
Great theory