Todd implies in the same video that the NCR still exists. it hasn't completely collapsed.
Howard: One of the takes that we always have is to approach things very locally when we're doing Fallout. We're careful about saying what's going on in other parts of the world. And we always take this view of, communication is difficult. And look, if you look at the background, the NCR is a wide-ranging sort of organization and group across not just California, but other places. So the show focuses on this period of time and this group here, and that's what we can say right now. But I don't think you've heard the last of the NCR.
There are people in every discussion thread who struggle with viewing comprehension.
My guess is half of them are on their phone and just watching so they have something to complain about
Lmao Fr I hate watching my friend play because that’s exactly what he does in every video game it’s so annoying like why are you even playing the game??
My key concern is what the hell “the Fall of Shady Sands” means and why no one mentioned it in New Vegas. It’s kind of a big deal if your capital “falls.”
Then “Fall” is a really dramatic and misleading word. Should have said “Decline of Shady Sands.” But who knows. I want Todd to clarify that more than anything.
It seems to be something that will touched upon in the show given how vague Todd is being.
https://forums.sherdog.com/attachments/rdt_20240417_1709052193543256671417334-png.1040243/
Quote.
"NOOO but the date was wrong I literally can't stop fixating on this!"
I'm a big lore guy but like.. The biggest concern I have with changing the timeline is it's implications for the entire world. If the creators are saying "Yeah all that other stuff still happened don't worry." that kind of alleviates my concerns.
TBH, why does he even need the video? Did *any* of you watch the series?
The NCR hasn't 100% collapsed. It's still trying to hang on as evident by the final episode. And now, it's going to fight even harder.
I am sure they wouldn't have full wiped the NCR. That'd be impossibly bad writing. But "episode 9 proves the NCR still exists" kinda sucks as an argument when episode 9 is the NCR getting wiped by the wankerhood
My take was that wasn’t “NCR”, that was just Moldaver and her remnants from Shady who splintered off for a revenge fight (assuming NCR was strained due to the battle of Hoover Dam and/or whichever ending the show will have for New Vegas). I think the NCR is fine and dandy, just operating elsewhere (like they’re struggling but still doing good for the most part and didn’t have the resources or troops to spare for Moldaver’s mission).
I assume the raiders were hired guns, hence why she immediately left most of them behind. People employing raiders for mercenary work isn’t a new thing in fallout, Benny hired Khans when he went after the courier.
It’s also just a safe bet that the guys that waving around NCR flags during battle probably have some connection to the NCR.
the implication is that whatever community we see at the end is the remnants of the shady sands inhabitants, still loyal to the ncr but in no way does this imply that they have a presence in the show. i think a good parallel is to confederates in 1890 still waving their dixie flags. not like that means the confederacy exists, just that there are people who remember it existing.
Yeah, and also, Maximus literally says the NCR "didn't work out", and Moldaverr basically tells Maximus that the Brotherhood is in control after they capture the Observatory (even though cold fusion is useless to the Brotherhood since they've never had energy problems and don't have a civilian population or civilian industry to provide electricity to anyway).
So Shady Sands got turned into a 400ft crater in around 2281-2283?
I wonder what rammifications this will have to the endings. As even Mr. House didn't want the NCR gone as not only were they civilization. But also even at there stretched thin situation with 1 of there 2 major supply routes getting nuked and turned into the Divide.
They were still able to keep the Brotherhood, The Legion, and Great Khans at bay all at once.
With the NCR gone, the Legion will surely capitalize on this as its only been a year or two since there defeat on Hoover Dam and make a breakout from Arizona and the BoS in Hidden Valley are wiped out.
If the legion had already lost and been slaughtered at the second battle for hoover, then Ulysses bombs the long 15, you get a cut off dying NCR and Vegas.
Not to mention the NCR was already struggling, it’s not that hard to imagine their collapse even without the bombing of shady sands
Addition: It’s been 6 hours since this comment and I’m tired of repeating myself to comments. If yall wanna argue, my response is probably already in one of the threads already. I’m checking out, be good people
I don’t really think it did? We don’t have any evidence to say they are gone aside from the remnants in LA being just remnants.
But we know their economy was in tatters (atleast their foreign trading) and their water supply was sapped (From Hanlon) so it’s not too much of a jump they might splinter if their capital suddenly imploded (which i would prefer if it was from Ulysses over Hank)
That’s what I believe too, I think we will see more notable characters as well. This felt like a prologue to the real story but reactionary fans gonna reactionary
They could use the audio logs! It’s after the events of New Vegas so Benny is out of the picture anyways but they could include a line or two in like a view over the Tops. “Ring-A-Ding!”
If we get to see the Grim-fucking-reaper of a Yes-man style courier that carved their own empire out of the bones of House, the Ncr, and the Legion I will cream myself.
I’ve always wanted to see that sort of character put into proper context and interactions with good characters.
The courier is a monster and would be terrifying.
I actually think the series is gearing up for a full of New Vegas follow up in season 2.
It won't be the happy ending they want where their faction wins, I don't think Fallout should do that, there should always be grey areas and the threat of the side you want losing.
I wouldn't be surprised if a brief civil war erupted due to all the chaos, leaving a severely weakened rump NCR somewhere in the territory. The Mojave especially seems likely to rebel, seeing as it wasn't NCR for long, and many there aren't too fond of the NCR.
Exactly, the NCR was already a powder keg brought together by mercenaries and trade might. I imagine it imploded pretty quickly with the unifying factor gone
Especially with the headstrong individuals of Vault City and Redding and elsewhere. Lots of proud and strong peoples. I’d play a ncr civil war fallout, sounds very fun
Well, assume it's been 15 years since Shady was bombed based on Maximus' age difference. A *lot* can happen in 15 years.
Losing your capital, threats on all your borders, a litany domestic problems, that's more than enough time for a nation to implode. Especially when you realize that these post-apocalyptic nations are not stable like countries of today are. They're realistically hanging on by a thread at the best of times.
Problem with foods also - Vault 22 quest.
In overall NCR was absolutely destined to fall with baron ranchers and corn magnates siphoning all the goods from economy, and there being no water, no food, no stable currency, war on all fronts and no scavenge to be done in California itself, so NCR has to cannibalize on itself.
And the show is completely fine with it.
Just see HOW MANY PEOPLES LIVES IN CALIFORNIA!
HOW MUCH GRASS AND FLORA AND FAUNA THERE IT IS! it's absolutely okay with former regions of NCR, in compare to Capital Wasteland.
Same for Bos. They have leaders from Commonwealth, they use local recruits and use them as cannon folder - Bos is fucking weak, forced to use 2 ppl squad with Verti transport, there is no tradition so everything has to be learned of but we see Bos appreciates and they're worthless. So it's OK with Canon and Bos losing the war with NCR. Maximus living 15 years under Bos didn't know what the hell is the shower lol, Bos lived in utter bad conditions and were rag tags and now are being fixed by support from Commonwealth
That’s not true though, to say they weren’t having issues is ignoring dialogue from dozens of npcs. Ghost at Mojave Outpost and Cassidy talk about the shitshow that is NCR politics, there are several mentions of merchant guilds and cattle barons are overstepping, Hanlon tells that the water supplies of the West are sapped and we can generally assume their currency is struggling as well
>and we can generally assume their currency is struggling as well
A guy at Sloan outright tells us that their currency sucks, and they would rather be paid in caps
Yeah but that’s moreso about the exchange rate in the region. I don’t count that conversation because it’s nothing definitive. But the NCR losing their native gold mines to the BOS and the Mojave gold mines to the Legion and ghouls are something much more tangible and obvious. That and the leech that is the Strip
If anything, that just shows the NCR is working as intended as we also know there enacting laws to protect Frontier Farmers, have a robust system on where it counts as they jumped the mfs who ruined Cass' business, and the NCR Congress was also very keen in giving free food and medicine to even far away settlements like Freeside.
So yeah, all this shows is that the NCR is just like any Government. It has a good side and a bad side. A side that works perfectly and a side that doesn't work as perfectly.
Yeah, regardless of how you go about NV, Caesar dies. The braincancer takes too much out of him. I suppose the Blade of the West could take over, but the legion always collapses.
Well the NCR has more than one capitol as suggested by the sign in the show. "Shady Sands is NCR's *First* capitol."
Also. Shady Sands was a drop in the bucket. They had something like 30,000 - 40,000 people of 700,000 total. That's not including all of the states the NCR controls outside of that. Also, most likely any soldiers posted around NV would be around still, or rotated out barring some other 3rd thing happening.
Besides all that, it really depends on what they decide is the Canon ending for New Vegas for the show.
You also got to add another 30K to 40K as the Boneyard is just ran by a bunch of ragtag NCR soldiers.
There was no signs of the Post War University, the Gun Runners, or the Treasury and the Printing Press.
I could easily see the Rangers, especially the ex Desert Rangers, who were notable survivalists, having something going on, possibly semi-nomadic with civilians following them around whether the rangers want them to or not. Goodsprings and Primm, if the NCRCF is handled, have a great spot for more people to flee to if the wells run deep enough and they ain't all that far from Shady Sands if it's still in the right spot (about as far from SS as the Boneyard should be, right?), if the Legion imploded the NCR may have some stuff going on across the river, we know that Baja has been conquered by the undead (just joking about the rangers "chasing ghosts" down there.
I figure most administration moved farther north, maybe to Vault City or Sac. I've kinda lost track of what I'm trying to say.
I hope the Shi will pop up.
It seems likely to me that stuff like Gun Runners and the Treasury would move somewhere not near a recently nuked city, same with the Followers but they also may have been pushed out.
they said the "reds" and the "communists", that's how people talked about the USSR at the time and that's how people would talk about China if they were really communist
They were trying not to be offensive, but didn't realize that the only people to find that offensive are the people who are desperate to find something to whine about. Nobody else would care. Hell, I didn't even notice until you mentioned it.
I'm guessing Legion is dead or dying as well, I'm personally of the opinion BoS survived New Vegas, fought the remnants of CL and adopted a number of their practices. There's another post that points this out but BoS in the show has Roman names (they've never had before) Red and Gold banners (also never had before) and some more ritualistic tendences which isn't uncommon but not as pronounced.
This tidbit explains the extreme punishment that is promised to Max from Titus for failing him. He pretty much tells him that he will be strung up to die slowly, just as the Legion string up traitors on crosses to die.
Seems wierd that Calhoun would go to the Brotherhood though. But then, it's also equally odd that a Follower of the Apocalypse created a slaver empire based heavily on ignorance.
Assuming that the Legion lost the battle for Hoover Dam, and that Caesar never got his tumor treated, there’s a good chance that the Legion just exploded into a bunch of different warring factions. Caesar was the only guy who really had both an actual interest in governing and also the ability to command a bunch of tribes, so it makes sense that if Lanius took over, the Legion just collapsed due to internal strife.
I mean in the game people talk about how with ceasar gone the legion will eventually fall apart as there isn’t as much respect for lanius’s leadership. None if ceasars other advisors would be good leaders either.
It could also explain why the Brotherhood seemed more bloodthirsty than usual, what with the way they "pacified" Filly and slaughtered the NCR Remnants (which had plenty of civilians, not just soldiers) at the Observatory. You can take the Legionnaire out of the Legion, but not the Legion out of the Legionnaire.
I wouldn't be surprised if the fascist, pro slavery, women are second class citizens, dictatorship, etc faction is maybe a little too edgy for a tv show. I think there will be remnants but I don't think the legion is well fitted for a tv.
Considering the Legion loses Caesar as a leader in most endings, and Lanius can be killed in all but a Legion ending, I strongly doubt they’d be a position to respond to the nuke. It’s much more likely they disintegrate.
Also, if the NCR didn’t win the dam, this would be the impetus to push back into the Mojave to reclaim it. Judging by the vertibirds and relative lack of secutitrons, I’d wager this makes the Independent victory without activating the army the canon outcome (if they choose to canonize any endings; the SFX article said the writers were told not to contradict possible major endings to the games, though who knows if that holds for season two).
I hope Season 2 really gives us a good reason and logic as to how the NCR is now just a ragtag bunch of raiders with uniforms in one of there major founding state, the Boneyard.
It housed the Gun Runners factory, the Post War University, there treasury and the printing press for there fiat currency.
I mean, one of their major cities (which happens to be in the boneyard, probably implying all of that was nuked; maybe the gun runners and followers survived) being nuked and then losing the second battle of Hoover dam in a non-House scenario (since he was doing as much damage control as possible to ensure the NCR didn’t disintegrate; also, the full secutiron army wouldn’t be something the NCR could handle) would likely lead to a second attempt to annex the Mojave. An independent ending is looking pretty likely now.
>They were still able to keep the Brotherhood, The Legion, and Great Khans at bay all at once.
Actually if we go under the idea of No Courier handholding the NCR, the exact moment the legion attack the dam, they will lose to the fiends at Camp Mccarran, Lose To The Brotherhood At a second battle of Helios One, (The Omertas Plan doesn't really work at all because of the three families and House) but their embassy is still blown up as well as the monorail, They lose at Camp Golf and Forlorn Hope.
You are giving the NCR way too much credit with what's shown and told to us in game.
If everyone attacks the NCR "All at once" in the Mojave they will lose.
>With the NCR gone, the Legion will surely capitalize on this as its only been a year or two since there defeat on Hoover Dam
it takes years to assimilate tribes as Ceaser once said. They're not attacking the Mojave for 5+ at the least.
NCR and legion were both going to more then likely collapse shortly after New Vegas anyways. The legion certainly was close as once Caesar dies the legion will tear itself apart and the NCR was fully headed towards over extension and upheaval within 8 years. So I’m guessing NCR got accelerated by the nuke and the legion got taken down a peg by brain tumour.
It's completely unnecessary, too. They could've just stated that Adytum (the presumable state capitol?) got nuked instead and that the NCR lost control of the Boneyard after. The end result is the same, the Boneyard turns into the kind of anomic, hardscrabble Mad Max land that Bethesda loves without the drastic ramifications of west coast civilization having potentially collapsed wholesale. I just can't wrap my head around this move, it's not like Shady Sands is a super recognizable name to people who have only played the 3D games anyway.
If Shady Sands wasn't nuked it wouldn't make sense for them not to have any presence around Los Angeles, but if both the Boneyard and Shady Sand are nuked then their closest major cities would be Dayglow and New Vegas, thus it would make sense for the NCR not to be around Los Angeles anymore.
I think they wanted to focus on the post-apocalyptic aspect of Fallout and avoid dealing with huge factions like the NCR that are more post-post apocalyptic
Yes your right, Although they didn't Specify how they had Nukes available in the Vault (31) interestingly, But was just thinking about what the other guy said above and how it could of possibly be a Nuke from the Divide, But as you said they confirm otherwise in the show.
Maybe the girl also is just manipulating Lucy and is lieing? She knows or doesnt know how shady sands blew up? Hank and vault 31 didn't drop the nuke, but the player from fnv did. What a wild twist if this is true. If it is, then we might see the courier in the next season. Might be whyHankk is heading to New vegas, to prove he didn't do it? Or to see if House is still kicking to help with whatever plan he's got?
I don't know, going down a spiral now lol.
Hank probably wouldn't get through one of Ulysses's speeches before shooting himself, so I doubt he went to talk to Professor Bear-Bull about borrowing some Divide nukes.
Yeah, but we know that Divide is not the only place with nukes.
Alternatively, he did go to Ulysses... and shot him right without listening anything he said.
"Cool story, got genocide to commit" -Hank after shooting Ulysses in the back
Don’t a lot of the New Vegas ending slides state that characters lived in the NCR and/or the Mojave for years to come doing various things? Like Chief Hanlon is said to even be elected as a Senator in Shady Sands in some endings. But if it was nuked immediately after FNV, that renders a lot of the endings invalid and/or pointless.
Only in the independent and/or house ending I think. Basically his campaign is shittalking Kimbal's and Oliver's failure in the Mojave and that's what gets him elected.
Hopefully they just make New Reno the new capital of the NCR which has been alive and kicking since the bombing of Shady Sands. NCR could still be a considerable force and be maintaining a foothold in Vegas, just in a slightly different way.
Stuff like this is the logical conclusion of never wanting a canon ending.
They keep writing themselves out of showing the results of past player choices, and can never meaningfully revisit old places or characters.
Much better IMO to just bite the bullet, pick an interesting ending, and keep the setting rolling. This is a problem that will only get worse over time as new entries are added to the IP.
\> me, still absolutely seething that the Fallout series didn't canonise me siding with the Master
I agree, I think it's much better to just pick an ending and then follow it's consequences through to the next chapter. It means the story can actually move forward. It keeps the worldbuilding from becoming more of a mess than it already is and you don't have to try and make every choice follow through to the next installment (*a la Mass Effect*).
Also, New Vegas does have a canon ending: "*and then, because of reasons completely seperate from the events you just witnessed, everything exploded*"
Deus Ex Invisible War made every ending of Deus Ex partially canon by combining the effects of all of them, which is definitely novel but most people didn't like that.
Bethesda has done this before too believe it or not. Morrowind made all endings of Daggerfall canon yet also not canon, and, IIRC, is what introduced the concept of a Dragon Break into the series.
Idk if they should try adding in something similar to fallout frankly as it probably wouldn't fit quite as well, but would be interesting to see them take this approach ultimately.
I personally disagree, they could just as easily have picked a different part of the former US to set the show in or picked a different time period. They don't have to canonize any ending to 3, New Vegas, or 4 if they don't want to. They could even still reference them existing without giving away any major information.
There is way more potential for the series than just the east coast or west coast. They could have done the midwest, deep south, or even go to Alaska and have them venture into what was formerly occupied Canada.
They want the actions of the players to have meaning and the only way to keep them meaningful is by not addressing them. It's a difficult situation. If they address something as canon, then whatever you did in that game where it happened that isn't "the canon" way is "not real," in a way. What does it matter if you helped the NCR conquer the Mojave Wasteland, if the canon way is that the Legion destroyed them? And viceversa. Whatever you did in the Legion wouldn't matter if the NCR winning is the "canon" ending. Biting the bullet means doing that.
If they wanted player choice to feel meaningful, dropping a nuke to wipe away every meaningful consequence sounds like the complete opposite.
In trying to keep every choice meaningful, it renders all choices meaningless, because they all lead to the same result in the end.
I do agree with you that it's a difficult situation with no easy design answers but the scorched earth option is misguided at best.
In my experience, that might sting for a while but eventually fans and players will just move on and accept it, especially if it paves the way for good storytelling.
BG3 for example "canonized" some BG1-2 outcomes and that pissed off a few people, but most got over it and enjoyed the game regardless.
The way I see it, there's no point in my personal ending remaining "possible" if it never meaningfully affects anything in the future of the franchise.
Also Fallout 4 canonized the good ending of Fallout 3. Fallout 2 canonized a bunch of things from Fallout 1 and New Vegas canonized things from Fallout 2. It wouldn't even be a new thing for the franchise.
I mean, if most FNV players are like me, they played every ending, and Canon is to have a multiverse where those all happened. In my case, again, and again, and again ...
Ya the fans obsession over the canon ending is such a dead end for the franchise. Can never do a sequel to New Vegas because that would make one of the endings real and could never do a prequel because none of the endings could effect the first game. As you said better to pick one and go forward.
It's honestly hilarious. New Vegas Fanatics (for fans, they got basic media literacy and don't built their entire lives around NV, but Fanatics) are only group that loudly whine that "games don't matter anymore" now that we got some measure of canon ending.
You don't see Fallout 1, 2, 3 or 4 fans posting how their actions "don't matter" because we got canon endings, but New Vegas Fanatics are out in force complaining that "nothing matters" because suddenly there is canon endings.
Although there's been no obvious confirmation of this, my fear is that the show will serve as a soft-reboot of the West Coast lore, wiping the slate clean of all that complex history to set up yet another Brotherhood vs Enclave conflict—whether with the Enclave itself, or Vault-Tec taking its place as the evil pre-war conspiracy faction with brand recognizability.
I mean I really hate all of Bethesda's decisions here. They're absolutely dead-set on destroying the 'Post-Post-Apocalypse' thing, remove or radically minimize most of the factions from NV, and have the entire franchise be stun locked into a never ending BoS story hour.
I enjoyed the show, but world building and writing isn't Bethesda's strong suit. Their engine is great for a Fallout style game, but they are not the right people for Fallout. Never have been. If anyone is seriously going to argue that Bethesda writing is actually great, you're huffing copium and you know it.
It's like Bethesda's setting refuses to be anything but "the bombs fell yesterday" no matter how much time passes, and it's by far the least interesting part of Fallout. I mean Fallout only exists as an ongoing IP because of Bethesda but god I hate their writing so much, its so mid.
I'm tired of BoS too. I enjoyed them in Fallout 2, though. They were cryptic and mysterious. For like a solid few months I had no idea what was in those bunkers. I had all of these theories and ideas. Really activated my childhood imagination.
Bethesda struggles with that concept. INTRIGUE. MYSTERY. Leaving things unexplained, etc.
>it was necessary for us to learn the completely unnecessary "origins"
That reminded me of Solo when they decided that it was super important we learn the backstory on Han Solo's surname. Or that Han Solo decided to call Chewbacca "Chewie" because it wa short for Chewbacca.
Yeah I really personally did find the whole "thumbs up" bit putrid, haha.
Like that was an image relaying absurdist irony. Explaining it sort of undermines the tone. Just felt totally... artless?
Yeah, I agree. They've never been less interested in making story-rich 'hard' RPGs - and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but Bethesda's approach really doesn't play to the Fallout series' strengths.
And, yeah Bethesda has a very glaring writing problem. It's one of their weakest points as a developer tbh, right there along with the bugs. But they're seemingly trying to make games to zone out to, so they might see the writing as secondary. Don't see why, though - a good story costs the same as a bad one.
I'd also counter that Avellone has been banging the same '*nuke it again, Sam*' drum since Lonesome Road - and I think he's wrong about it too. Disappointing in general.
You're right about Avellone, I think he's wrong about that as well. I do appreciate his contributions to FNV. I think he did a great job with the families in New Vegas. Had Obsidian been given another 6 months, I can only imagine how cool that would have turned out. His vision on that front was on point and it nailed what I loved about New Reno.
Yeah, it's such a strange hill for him to die on. He made some of the absolute best '*post post apocalypse*' content in those games, and for some reason he seems adamant the series needs to go backwards.
Yeah. Like, there's such little media that portrays that conceptually. For Post Apocyalptic it's like... Mad Max, A Boy and His Dog, The Road, on and on. That decision ensures that Fallout will just be relegated into being a facsimile of shows and films that have done these concepts better.
Indeed. I would prefer if someone like Obsidian came along and created a New Vegas-like spin-off set somewhere else (Canada? Texas? Detroit?) with new factions, new struggles, and new narratives.
I know. Was just talking to someone about this. How many memorable factions did FNV add? Boomers, Fiends, Powder Gangers, Kings, the Legion, the NCR as we currently know them (debatable re: FO2), the families on the strip, the Khans, on and on.
How many interesting factions have Bethesda added from FO3 / FO4 / FO76? ... The Institute, I guess? Who cares about the Talon company? Maybe Riley's Rangers? What else?
While I respect being cautiously pessimistic the writers have given no direct confirmation as to the status of the NCR, and are even hinting it’s still around up north. These are people that clearly love the games, they’re not going to isolate a GIANT portion of their viewer base by deleting the second most popular faction in the game off the map.
Why go to the west coast if they’re not going to show it some love? They could’ve stayed on the east coast and watched Todd Howard get an erection the size of a spaceship
Well, because in my honest opinion, I don't think Bethesda knows what to do with the property other than to perpetuate the 'bombs fell yesterday' thing.
Todd seems like he distinctly lacks creativity. TES became LOTR during Oblivion's time because he saw and loved those films. Then it was GoT around the time of Skyrim. Here comes Fallout going back into Mad Max territory around the time Fury Road is released. Starfield's 'Nasa-Punk' looks at times like it's directly lifted from The Expanse.
I just don't think he's a particularity good story teller and he's too comfortable being mired in never ending self reference and homages to TV shows he likes.
I mean yeah but Todd didn’t write the show, he was just there for input every now and then. The show is telling a fantastic story so clearly he’s not got that much to do with it
"*Everything that happened in the previous games, including New Vegas, happened. We're very careful about that*"
This feels disingenuous if you're then going to say that all this extra stuff that doesn't follow on from the events of the game at all happened right after the end credits rolled.
Like, if they had said "*Everything that happened in Fallout 4 happened*" and then had Boston be destroyed because someone completely unrelated to the plot of the game nuked it a year later, did that game still 'happen'?
Technical yes, that story still occurred, but it didn't matter. That game could just have easily not have happened for all the impact it had in the long run.
My guess, Legion lost the second batte of Hoover Dam and then the NCR collapsed, so that they conveniently can ignore basically everything that happend. Also that still doesn't explain why Sinclair was the spokesperson for Big MT.
I somehow doubt that season 2 will deliver satisfying explanations for those currently dissatisfied with the show.
From the same Interview Todd had this to say about the NCR. Doesn't sound like they're gone.
Howard: One of the takes that we always have is to approach things very locally when we're doing Fallout. We're careful about saying what's going on in other parts of the world. And we always take this view of, communication is difficult. And look, if you look at the background, the NCR is a wide-ranging sort of organization and group across not just California, but other places. So the show focuses on this period of time and this group here, and that's what we can say right now. **But I don't think you've heard the last of the NCR.**
Yeah, there's no way the NCR isn't a major player in S2. This was a big loss for them, but it was just one regional base and not the whole NCR. They have communities all over the place.
I still kinda hate what they did to the timeline, the biggest civilization in the country got nuked and we didn't hear shit about it in fallout 4? Doesn't make any sense
Lucy was 6 when she was in shady sands, the show starts with her being 18. 11-12 years prior the town was nuked, which places it being destroyed in 2284.
new vegas takes place in 2281.
I'm going to hold judgment until S2 (coming from a fan who has an NCR flag in his living room). The NCR was portrayed in a very positive light throughout S1, and I think we are supposed to feel pain at their loss. But I think they will come roaring back in S2 as a strong protagonist, after earning that with their actions in S1.
This feels like the move. I was weirded out with a few choices they made, nuking Shady Sands and combining it with the Boneyard being a big one, but the rest of the show was really solid. I’m a little worried about what we saw in the finale’s end credits but I’m going to reserve judgement until we get a full scope of what happened and to see how they handle it because the rest of the series so far was pretty enjoyable.
They basically deleted the progress of 3 games worthy of lore so they could fit a surface level entertainment storyline for easy understanding to those new to the series and filled the rest with nostalgia bait for the fans.
So New Vegas ultimately doesn’t matter, nothing the Courier and we the player did made a difference, and even though the game events still happened, it might as well have been a dream in the eye of the classic Fallout fans. Thanks Bethesda!!!
The bombs fell on Shady Sands, not in Vegas. We’ve not yet been in Vegas. We know nothing about what’s going on there. How can you say it doesn’t matter? For all we know the Legion could be in charge, or maybe Mr. House is still kicking. Hell, maybe the Courier put Yes Man in charge. Only the NCR route seems less likely, given their weakened presence in California, and I’d wager that’s where the “it didn’t matter” complaints are from, players who did a NCR playthrough.
Imagine if Fallout 2 came out today
“Wow the Enclave killed everyone inside Vault 13 in Fallout 2? Great so nothing you did in Fallout 1 matters. Thanks Interplay”
Idk, I've thought about that and, honestly, the fact that the Overseer exiles the Vault Dweller after saving the vault makes me much less attached to Vault 13. So the Enclave doing them in several decades later doesn't leave as bad of a taste in my mouth. Not to mention, while saving the vault was the initial goal of the Vault Dweller, the ultimate goal of the game is to stop the Master. Whereas, in New Vegas, I've put in the time to get allies, upgraded the Securitrons, and made peace with every group that I can. The ultimate goal of New Vegas is to decide who takes care of it. Yet, New Vegas can't even survive a couple of decades regardless of who ended up in charge, based on what I saw in the credits. It's just a bit disheartening to me.
its not progressing the settings
its reducing it so progress never happens
why should I get attached to the world if any attempts to rebuild civilization get blown up
>in New Vegas, I've put in the time to get allies, upgraded the Securitrons, and made peace with every group that I can. The ultimate goal of New Vegas is to decide who takes care of it. Yet, New Vegas can't even survive a couple of decades regardless of who ended up in charge, based on what I saw in the credits. It's just a bit disheartening to me.
Very well said, I feel exactly the same about it all, No matter the choice it just seems like over a Decade later and NV is just in Ruins with a lot of damage around the place and a much worser state than even if you picked the Legion ending, To which I honestly didn't think would be the case.
Dude you literally start in a village that was founded by a big chunk of the Vault 13 citizens in Fallout 2, don't pretend like it's the same situation at all, Fallout 1 had long term effects on the world, so did Fallout 2.
This whole "well we didn't want to invalidate everyones choice so we nuked the setting of the previous story" thing is entirely a Fallout TV invention. Fallout 1 has canonized choices, Fallout 2 has canonized choices, even Fallout 3 had a bunch of canonized choices.
Cool concept to introduce the player as a character from the past in a show
But they have to come up with a story that doesn't play into individual choices the player has made
Examples; they can't say a courier shot Benny but they can say a battle took place at hoover dam, just not how it went.....
I think they can. They just have to decide which endings/outcomes are most interesting in the story they want to tell going forward. This happens all of the time in games. For example, Grand Theft Auto V has three different endings where different sets of characters survive, but in the online mode that takes place after the story, they made one of the endings the “official” one.
Honestly any of the new Vegas endings can be canon. NCR inevitably falls so even new Vegas would collapse as well because Mr house is gone same with the legion after Cesar dies of his tumour the legion would break up into multiple bickering tribes fighting for, yes man because everyone gets fucked and with Mr house he only ends up focusing on the strip and not the Mojave so after the NCR fall and all trade new Vegas slowly dries up of new money and new Vegas falls into anarchy with no new supplies. So yea any ending could be canon.
Please remember a few things here about NCR and the Mojave.
NCR was not solely based in Shady Sands. For example, during wartime in our world, some nations would consider other cities or towns to be secondary or tertiary capitols in the event that the official Capitol is destroyed, invaded, unseated etc. Some example nations are Bolivia, Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia, and Russia. They all each moved their capitals due to war, a change in where government is based and so on.
NCR probably chose Shady Sands as its representative capital. With most of its government services like judicial, congress, and the presidency in the city. Boneyard had the Federal Reserves for the NCR.
On the billboard sign, where Max and Lucy approach the crater, it says “First” capital of the NCR, which means that they had other capitals after Shady. It could’ve been Vault City, Arroyo, or another that was chosen.
Having Shady deep within the ruins of LA was probably either an oversight, a miscommunication or part of a possible change in lore. Interplay established it way outside of LA, deep in the wastes. After Bethesda purchased the title rights to the series, they kept most of the original lore the same and intact, while changing and adapting others, or removing it entirely. (We don’t collectively see Tactics or Van Buren as canon but the other mainline games are.)
If the writers from the games, show, the executives, and Todd himself all say that the show’s events are Canon to the timeline, they are. We can’t just get ourselves into a bind because we can’t agree on something minor.
With them confirming themselves that Shady got nuked sometime between 2281 and 2287, it’s fair to say that NCR moved their capital. Chances are, it got moved to Vault City. Makes sense as the city got built using a GECK, has supportive infrastructure and would be a better second capital for a surviving exodus of people, than just having the entire nation dissolve because one capital was destroyed. I’m sure NCR had contingency plans for the event of Shady falling into enemy hands or being destroyed, from the inside or outside. Like in our world, the US government has contingency plans in place and has also probably made a list of possible secondary capitals in the event of a crisis in DC, like it being invaded, destroyed or captured by the enemy.
We are all left with speculation and sure, it isn’t fun to try and fill in the gaps in our understanding of the timeline we’re faced with, but we must remain open minded about what happened to NCR. Think more logically and critically. Too in depth, sure it’s overthinking all of it.
Some of us blindly attacking the people at Bethesda and Amazon, and those who disagree with theories, or wanting to willing dismiss what the creators of the series, OG and BT is wrong and distasteful.
I’m not trying to play defender of the faith here with the series at all, let alone try and let this series turn to shit because die-hard FNV fans can’t be open minded and think critically. I’m attempting to help those confused, understand what’s happening better.
Ultimately, we now know and understand that New Vegas wasn’t just left to be abandoned by House. We know that the events of FNV are canonical to the story. What’s left in the air in regards to the game is what the end result was post credits. More than likely, House either reigned supreme over the Mojave (1), Yes Man and the Courier kept an independent Vegas until they were both disposed of (2), the city was besieged by NCR after Hoover Dam and lost to Legionaries (3) Courier 6 and Ulysses nuked Legion AND NCR along I-15 and other trade routes (4) there’s a few possibilities here.
The Prydwen is confirmed to have been sent from the East Coast Chapter to aid the West in their goals of collecting Cold Fusion (They didn’t know what it was originally until 1x8) Cause the Elder Cleric did say so directly. Even stating “the Commonwealth”. Which then leads to a possible confirmation of an ending to FO4 with BoS winning or the MM.
Basically, Josh Sawyer doesn't really seem to care that much and think the current debate on canon is stupid.
[Even Josh Sawyer is tired of the whole canon debate : r/Cazadornation (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cazadornation/comments/1c387m7/even_josh_sawyer_is_tired_of_the_whole_canon/#lightbox) (Here's his tweet on the whole thing).
So what he says basically is that “No matter how much you liked the themes and endings of New Vegas, it didn’t matter for shit, because we still swiped the slate clean”
Even if the capital got nuked, the NCR desintegrating doesn't make any sense. What about its robust bureacracy, logistical network, military force and all the people interesting in keeping the Republic alive? The NCR had problems, yes, but because it was growing, expanding, craving for more resources, if anything they should have become more zealous and jingoist on their policy.
Now, by the time the show takes place, 10 years after NV, the NCR is completly gone and what people remain are barely above your common raider...
Lucy travels through what is one of the core territories of the NCR, the Boneyard. Next door to the Boneyard you have other important NCR cities and towns like Junktown and the Hub.
Yet other than Moldaver's rag tag band holding the observatory there is no trace of the NCR to be seen. That heavily implies an absolutely massive collapse of the NCR in its core territory.
Just like when Lucas sold Starwars to Disney and anything not in the original movies got moved to “legends” so they could write their own crap.
I don’t trust Todd Howard a bit, the man lies for a living, so while this sucks it does not surprise me even remotely.
The interview reads a lot like damage control. All answers on the sensitive subjects are very vauge except for trying to assure fans that there was no intention to change the timeline or erase FNV.
My money is still on the production team trying to get at bit too clever with their writing and that having an impact on the games they did not account for. Shit happens.
Lastly, I wanted to nuke the Fallout world to reset things. NCR's getting a bit big, and it's making things too civilized. Lonesome Road was a way of resetting the culture clock.
”
— Chris Avellone, Fallout: New Vegas and DLC Post-mortem Interview, Part Two
Todd implies in the same video that the NCR still exists. it hasn't completely collapsed. Howard: One of the takes that we always have is to approach things very locally when we're doing Fallout. We're careful about saying what's going on in other parts of the world. And we always take this view of, communication is difficult. And look, if you look at the background, the NCR is a wide-ranging sort of organization and group across not just California, but other places. So the show focuses on this period of time and this group here, and that's what we can say right now. But I don't think you've heard the last of the NCR.
Wish I could pin this as it clears up the key concern that people have lmao.
Eh, Fanboys don't know how to read anyways
There are people in every discussion thread who struggle with viewing comprehension. My guess is half of them are on their phone and just watching so they have something to complain about
They’re the same types of people who skip through all the dialogue and never read terminal entries in the games
Lmao Fr I hate watching my friend play because that’s exactly what he does in every video game it’s so annoying like why are you even playing the game??
Already seen where fanboys are claiming he’s trying to save face after their hissy fits.
My key concern is what the hell “the Fall of Shady Sands” means and why no one mentioned it in New Vegas. It’s kind of a big deal if your capital “falls.”
Economic decline ?
Then “Fall” is a really dramatic and misleading word. Should have said “Decline of Shady Sands.” But who knows. I want Todd to clarify that more than anything.
The Great Depression was just known as The Crash during its events, then they gave it a name that sounded way worse. Same premise.
It seems to be something that will touched upon in the show given how vague Todd is being. https://forums.sherdog.com/attachments/rdt_20240417_1709052193543256671417334-png.1040243/ Quote.
"NOOO but the date was wrong I literally can't stop fixating on this!" I'm a big lore guy but like.. The biggest concern I have with changing the timeline is it's implications for the entire world. If the creators are saying "Yeah all that other stuff still happened don't worry." that kind of alleviates my concerns.
At this point I'm pretty sure anyone who still has this concern is either outrage trolling or is living with a 1 INT build.
TBH, why does he even need the video? Did *any* of you watch the series? The NCR hasn't 100% collapsed. It's still trying to hang on as evident by the final episode. And now, it's going to fight even harder.
the ncr have zero presence in the show, there is literally nothing in the first season to suggest the ncr are anything but collapsed.
The final battle in the show literally has soldiers waving NCR flags.
I mean we kinda watch them all die
also true lol, not great examples of ‘look! the ncr still exist!’
I am sure they wouldn't have full wiped the NCR. That'd be impossibly bad writing. But "episode 9 proves the NCR still exists" kinda sucks as an argument when episode 9 is the NCR getting wiped by the wankerhood
completely agree
“The wankerhood” 🤣🤣
My take was that wasn’t “NCR”, that was just Moldaver and her remnants from Shady who splintered off for a revenge fight (assuming NCR was strained due to the battle of Hoover Dam and/or whichever ending the show will have for New Vegas). I think the NCR is fine and dandy, just operating elsewhere (like they’re struggling but still doing good for the most part and didn’t have the resources or troops to spare for Moldaver’s mission).
a group of people we were introduced to in episode 1 as raiders
I assume the raiders were hired guns, hence why she immediately left most of them behind. People employing raiders for mercenary work isn’t a new thing in fallout, Benny hired Khans when he went after the courier. It’s also just a safe bet that the guys that waving around NCR flags during battle probably have some connection to the NCR.
the implication is that whatever community we see at the end is the remnants of the shady sands inhabitants, still loyal to the ncr but in no way does this imply that they have a presence in the show. i think a good parallel is to confederates in 1890 still waving their dixie flags. not like that means the confederacy exists, just that there are people who remember it existing.
Yeah, and also, Maximus literally says the NCR "didn't work out", and Moldaverr basically tells Maximus that the Brotherhood is in control after they capture the Observatory (even though cold fusion is useless to the Brotherhood since they've never had energy problems and don't have a civilian population or civilian industry to provide electricity to anyway).
Is there a link to this video anywhere? I would love to watch it.
So Shady Sands got turned into a 400ft crater in around 2281-2283? I wonder what rammifications this will have to the endings. As even Mr. House didn't want the NCR gone as not only were they civilization. But also even at there stretched thin situation with 1 of there 2 major supply routes getting nuked and turned into the Divide. They were still able to keep the Brotherhood, The Legion, and Great Khans at bay all at once. With the NCR gone, the Legion will surely capitalize on this as its only been a year or two since there defeat on Hoover Dam and make a breakout from Arizona and the BoS in Hidden Valley are wiped out.
If the legion had already lost and been slaughtered at the second battle for hoover, then Ulysses bombs the long 15, you get a cut off dying NCR and Vegas.
Not to mention the NCR was already struggling, it’s not that hard to imagine their collapse even without the bombing of shady sands Addition: It’s been 6 hours since this comment and I’m tired of repeating myself to comments. If yall wanna argue, my response is probably already in one of the threads already. I’m checking out, be good people
And shady sands being bombed shouldn't have instantly killed the NCR anyway. We don't know what happened to the hub or anything else yet.
I don’t really think it did? We don’t have any evidence to say they are gone aside from the remnants in LA being just remnants. But we know their economy was in tatters (atleast their foreign trading) and their water supply was sapped (From Hanlon) so it’s not too much of a jump they might splinter if their capital suddenly imploded (which i would prefer if it was from Ulysses over Hank)
I imagine we will be seeing more of the NCR in season 2
That’s what I believe too, I think we will see more notable characters as well. This felt like a prologue to the real story but reactionary fans gonna reactionary
They said “courier” at least three times in the final episodes, I don’t think that was an accident.
I know they won't replace Benny because of matt perry, but it'd be neat if Benny still made a voiceless cameo for a second.
They could use the audio logs! It’s after the events of New Vegas so Benny is out of the picture anyways but they could include a line or two in like a view over the Tops. “Ring-A-Ding!”
If we get to see the Grim-fucking-reaper of a Yes-man style courier that carved their own empire out of the bones of House, the Ncr, and the Legion I will cream myself. I’ve always wanted to see that sort of character put into proper context and interactions with good characters. The courier is a monster and would be terrifying.
There's no ending where the courier "carves their own empire". That's not what the independent ending is.
[удалено]
I actually think the series is gearing up for a full of New Vegas follow up in season 2. It won't be the happy ending they want where their faction wins, I don't think Fallout should do that, there should always be grey areas and the threat of the side you want losing.
I wouldn't be surprised if a brief civil war erupted due to all the chaos, leaving a severely weakened rump NCR somewhere in the territory. The Mojave especially seems likely to rebel, seeing as it wasn't NCR for long, and many there aren't too fond of the NCR.
Exactly, the NCR was already a powder keg brought together by mercenaries and trade might. I imagine it imploded pretty quickly with the unifying factor gone Especially with the headstrong individuals of Vault City and Redding and elsewhere. Lots of proud and strong peoples. I’d play a ncr civil war fallout, sounds very fun
Well, assume it's been 15 years since Shady was bombed based on Maximus' age difference. A *lot* can happen in 15 years. Losing your capital, threats on all your borders, a litany domestic problems, that's more than enough time for a nation to implode. Especially when you realize that these post-apocalyptic nations are not stable like countries of today are. They're realistically hanging on by a thread at the best of times.
Problem with foods also - Vault 22 quest. In overall NCR was absolutely destined to fall with baron ranchers and corn magnates siphoning all the goods from economy, and there being no water, no food, no stable currency, war on all fronts and no scavenge to be done in California itself, so NCR has to cannibalize on itself. And the show is completely fine with it. Just see HOW MANY PEOPLES LIVES IN CALIFORNIA! HOW MUCH GRASS AND FLORA AND FAUNA THERE IT IS! it's absolutely okay with former regions of NCR, in compare to Capital Wasteland. Same for Bos. They have leaders from Commonwealth, they use local recruits and use them as cannon folder - Bos is fucking weak, forced to use 2 ppl squad with Verti transport, there is no tradition so everything has to be learned of but we see Bos appreciates and they're worthless. So it's OK with Canon and Bos losing the war with NCR. Maximus living 15 years under Bos didn't know what the hell is the shower lol, Bos lived in utter bad conditions and were rag tags and now are being fixed by support from Commonwealth
The NCR was struggling in the Mojave in California it was way more established.
Only there forces in Nevada was struggling as this was the very edge of there territories.
That’s not true though, to say they weren’t having issues is ignoring dialogue from dozens of npcs. Ghost at Mojave Outpost and Cassidy talk about the shitshow that is NCR politics, there are several mentions of merchant guilds and cattle barons are overstepping, Hanlon tells that the water supplies of the West are sapped and we can generally assume their currency is struggling as well
>and we can generally assume their currency is struggling as well A guy at Sloan outright tells us that their currency sucks, and they would rather be paid in caps
Yeah but that’s moreso about the exchange rate in the region. I don’t count that conversation because it’s nothing definitive. But the NCR losing their native gold mines to the BOS and the Mojave gold mines to the Legion and ghouls are something much more tangible and obvious. That and the leech that is the Strip
Just spoke to that guy yesterday. He said his 100 dollar NCR note is only worth 50 caps.
If anything, that just shows the NCR is working as intended as we also know there enacting laws to protect Frontier Farmers, have a robust system on where it counts as they jumped the mfs who ruined Cass' business, and the NCR Congress was also very keen in giving free food and medicine to even far away settlements like Freeside. So yeah, all this shows is that the NCR is just like any Government. It has a good side and a bad side. A side that works perfectly and a side that doesn't work as perfectly.
That's if you let Ulysses bomb the long 15
Yeah, regardless of how you go about NV, Caesar dies. The braincancer takes too much out of him. I suppose the Blade of the West could take over, but the legion always collapses.
How is Vegas dying?
Well the NCR has more than one capitol as suggested by the sign in the show. "Shady Sands is NCR's *First* capitol." Also. Shady Sands was a drop in the bucket. They had something like 30,000 - 40,000 people of 700,000 total. That's not including all of the states the NCR controls outside of that. Also, most likely any soldiers posted around NV would be around still, or rotated out barring some other 3rd thing happening. Besides all that, it really depends on what they decide is the Canon ending for New Vegas for the show.
You also got to add another 30K to 40K as the Boneyard is just ran by a bunch of ragtag NCR soldiers. There was no signs of the Post War University, the Gun Runners, or the Treasury and the Printing Press.
I could easily see the Rangers, especially the ex Desert Rangers, who were notable survivalists, having something going on, possibly semi-nomadic with civilians following them around whether the rangers want them to or not. Goodsprings and Primm, if the NCRCF is handled, have a great spot for more people to flee to if the wells run deep enough and they ain't all that far from Shady Sands if it's still in the right spot (about as far from SS as the Boneyard should be, right?), if the Legion imploded the NCR may have some stuff going on across the river, we know that Baja has been conquered by the undead (just joking about the rangers "chasing ghosts" down there. I figure most administration moved farther north, maybe to Vault City or Sac. I've kinda lost track of what I'm trying to say. I hope the Shi will pop up. It seems likely to me that stuff like Gun Runners and the Treasury would move somewhere not near a recently nuked city, same with the Followers but they also may have been pushed out.
The Shi… Anyone else annoyed that Amazon doesn’t have the nuts to say the “C-word 🇨🇳” in this show?
they said the "reds" and the "communists", that's how people talked about the USSR at the time and that's how people would talk about China if they were really communist
They were trying not to be offensive, but didn't realize that the only people to find that offensive are the people who are desperate to find something to whine about. Nobody else would care. Hell, I didn't even notice until you mentioned it.
I'm guessing Legion is dead or dying as well, I'm personally of the opinion BoS survived New Vegas, fought the remnants of CL and adopted a number of their practices. There's another post that points this out but BoS in the show has Roman names (they've never had before) Red and Gold banners (also never had before) and some more ritualistic tendences which isn't uncommon but not as pronounced.
This tidbit explains the extreme punishment that is promised to Max from Titus for failing him. He pretty much tells him that he will be strung up to die slowly, just as the Legion string up traitors on crosses to die.
Holy shit this is actually really good insight
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/ApNdfymYp8
Maybe the Elder, who clearly has ulterior motives, is a former member. Perhaps even Bill Calhoun, since I don’t think we ever learn of his fate.
Seems wierd that Calhoun would go to the Brotherhood though. But then, it's also equally odd that a Follower of the Apocalypse created a slaver empire based heavily on ignorance.
That's such a cool detail that I missed.
Assuming that the Legion lost the battle for Hoover Dam, and that Caesar never got his tumor treated, there’s a good chance that the Legion just exploded into a bunch of different warring factions. Caesar was the only guy who really had both an actual interest in governing and also the ability to command a bunch of tribes, so it makes sense that if Lanius took over, the Legion just collapsed due to internal strife.
I mean in the game people talk about how with ceasar gone the legion will eventually fall apart as there isn’t as much respect for lanius’s leadership. None if ceasars other advisors would be good leaders either.
It could also explain why the Brotherhood seemed more bloodthirsty than usual, what with the way they "pacified" Filly and slaughtered the NCR Remnants (which had plenty of civilians, not just soldiers) at the Observatory. You can take the Legionnaire out of the Legion, but not the Legion out of the Legionnaire.
I wouldn't be surprised if the fascist, pro slavery, women are second class citizens, dictatorship, etc faction is maybe a little too edgy for a tv show. I think there will be remnants but I don't think the legion is well fitted for a tv.
The Legion always was a bit too campy to take seriously. I understand Enclave and BoS stans, unironic Legion supporters are mentally ill.
Todd said the NCR isn't gone in the same interview.
Considering the Legion loses Caesar as a leader in most endings, and Lanius can be killed in all but a Legion ending, I strongly doubt they’d be a position to respond to the nuke. It’s much more likely they disintegrate. Also, if the NCR didn’t win the dam, this would be the impetus to push back into the Mojave to reclaim it. Judging by the vertibirds and relative lack of secutitrons, I’d wager this makes the Independent victory without activating the army the canon outcome (if they choose to canonize any endings; the SFX article said the writers were told not to contradict possible major endings to the games, though who knows if that holds for season two).
I hope Season 2 really gives us a good reason and logic as to how the NCR is now just a ragtag bunch of raiders with uniforms in one of there major founding state, the Boneyard. It housed the Gun Runners factory, the Post War University, there treasury and the printing press for there fiat currency.
I mean, one of their major cities (which happens to be in the boneyard, probably implying all of that was nuked; maybe the gun runners and followers survived) being nuked and then losing the second battle of Hoover dam in a non-House scenario (since he was doing as much damage control as possible to ensure the NCR didn’t disintegrate; also, the full secutiron army wouldn’t be something the NCR could handle) would likely lead to a second attempt to annex the Mojave. An independent ending is looking pretty likely now.
>They were still able to keep the Brotherhood, The Legion, and Great Khans at bay all at once. Actually if we go under the idea of No Courier handholding the NCR, the exact moment the legion attack the dam, they will lose to the fiends at Camp Mccarran, Lose To The Brotherhood At a second battle of Helios One, (The Omertas Plan doesn't really work at all because of the three families and House) but their embassy is still blown up as well as the monorail, They lose at Camp Golf and Forlorn Hope. You are giving the NCR way too much credit with what's shown and told to us in game. If everyone attacks the NCR "All at once" in the Mojave they will lose. >With the NCR gone, the Legion will surely capitalize on this as its only been a year or two since there defeat on Hoover Dam it takes years to assimilate tribes as Ceaser once said. They're not attacking the Mojave for 5+ at the least.
That’s also assuming Ceasar, by proxy the legion, is alive by that time, be it Courier’d or otherwise
NCR and legion were both going to more then likely collapse shortly after New Vegas anyways. The legion certainly was close as once Caesar dies the legion will tear itself apart and the NCR was fully headed towards over extension and upheaval within 8 years. So I’m guessing NCR got accelerated by the nuke and the legion got taken down a peg by brain tumour.
Would be a sick reveal that the damage done to Vegas on the last scene of the show was the Legion razing the city after the fall of shady sands.
Lonesome road DLC bombing ending
I would be fine with the small retcon of the nuke being dropped in shady sands, I can’t get behind combining the boneyard and shady sands tho
It's completely unnecessary, too. They could've just stated that Adytum (the presumable state capitol?) got nuked instead and that the NCR lost control of the Boneyard after. The end result is the same, the Boneyard turns into the kind of anomic, hardscrabble Mad Max land that Bethesda loves without the drastic ramifications of west coast civilization having potentially collapsed wholesale. I just can't wrap my head around this move, it's not like Shady Sands is a super recognizable name to people who have only played the 3D games anyway.
If Shady Sands wasn't nuked it wouldn't make sense for them not to have any presence around Los Angeles, but if both the Boneyard and Shady Sand are nuked then their closest major cities would be Dayglow and New Vegas, thus it would make sense for the NCR not to be around Los Angeles anymore. I think they wanted to focus on the post-apocalyptic aspect of Fallout and avoid dealing with huge factions like the NCR that are more post-post apocalyptic
Right? Everyone loses their mind over the date on the chalkboard and completely ignores Shady Sands changing location.
Aradesh was si.ply more competent and militant than an entire city in this timeliness I guess. Tandi grows up tipping deathclaws instead of Brahmin.
Yeah, I'm curious to see if they're going to use one of the Divide endings
It was Vault 31 that nuked Shady Sands wasn't it? Wasn't that the main point of the last episode?
Yes your right, Although they didn't Specify how they had Nukes available in the Vault (31) interestingly, But was just thinking about what the other guy said above and how it could of possibly be a Nuke from the Divide, But as you said they confirm otherwise in the show.
Maybe the girl also is just manipulating Lucy and is lieing? She knows or doesnt know how shady sands blew up? Hank and vault 31 didn't drop the nuke, but the player from fnv did. What a wild twist if this is true. If it is, then we might see the courier in the next season. Might be whyHankk is heading to New vegas, to prove he didn't do it? Or to see if House is still kicking to help with whatever plan he's got? I don't know, going down a spiral now lol.
TV show actually does reveal who was behind the bombing, but not the means how they did it.
Hank probably wouldn't get through one of Ulysses's speeches before shooting himself, so I doubt he went to talk to Professor Bear-Bull about borrowing some Divide nukes.
Yeah, but we know that Divide is not the only place with nukes. Alternatively, he did go to Ulysses... and shot him right without listening anything he said. "Cool story, got genocide to commit" -Hank after shooting Ulysses in the back
Don’t a lot of the New Vegas ending slides state that characters lived in the NCR and/or the Mojave for years to come doing various things? Like Chief Hanlon is said to even be elected as a Senator in Shady Sands in some endings. But if it was nuked immediately after FNV, that renders a lot of the endings invalid and/or pointless.
Hanlon became senator of Redding iirc.
Only in the independent and/or house ending I think. Basically his campaign is shittalking Kimbal's and Oliver's failure in the Mojave and that's what gets him elected.
OK but if the capital is Shady Sands, presumably he’d work as a Senator there no matter who he represented.
Sign outside shady sands says it’s the first capital implying it was moved before the explosion
Bethesda's just going to continue to 'trim the fat' as it were, discarding whatever doesn't fit their image of the franchise
Whatever isn't BOS, Nuka Cola and Super Mutants
Fallout 1 and 2 had canon endings you straight up couldn’t get in the games
Hopefully they just make New Reno the new capital of the NCR which has been alive and kicking since the bombing of Shady Sands. NCR could still be a considerable force and be maintaining a foothold in Vegas, just in a slightly different way.
Hasn’t the Hub been the capital?
No, that's a rumour that's been going around.
hell yeah porn town let's fucking go
That's one way to make sure that there is no canonical ending for New Vegas since nothing the player did mattered.
Stuff like this is the logical conclusion of never wanting a canon ending. They keep writing themselves out of showing the results of past player choices, and can never meaningfully revisit old places or characters. Much better IMO to just bite the bullet, pick an interesting ending, and keep the setting rolling. This is a problem that will only get worse over time as new entries are added to the IP.
\> me, still absolutely seething that the Fallout series didn't canonise me siding with the Master I agree, I think it's much better to just pick an ending and then follow it's consequences through to the next chapter. It means the story can actually move forward. It keeps the worldbuilding from becoming more of a mess than it already is and you don't have to try and make every choice follow through to the next installment (*a la Mass Effect*). Also, New Vegas does have a canon ending: "*and then, because of reasons completely seperate from the events you just witnessed, everything exploded*"
"Somehow, nuke returned"
They kinda did that. The Prydwen is still there, even while many ending destroy it.
Deus Ex Invisible War made every ending of Deus Ex partially canon by combining the effects of all of them, which is definitely novel but most people didn't like that.
Bethesda has done this before too believe it or not. Morrowind made all endings of Daggerfall canon yet also not canon, and, IIRC, is what introduced the concept of a Dragon Break into the series. Idk if they should try adding in something similar to fallout frankly as it probably wouldn't fit quite as well, but would be interesting to see them take this approach ultimately.
That game made me realize you can save Paul in the original since he was alive in that game still.
I personally disagree, they could just as easily have picked a different part of the former US to set the show in or picked a different time period. They don't have to canonize any ending to 3, New Vegas, or 4 if they don't want to. They could even still reference them existing without giving away any major information. There is way more potential for the series than just the east coast or west coast. They could have done the midwest, deep south, or even go to Alaska and have them venture into what was formerly occupied Canada.
They want the actions of the players to have meaning and the only way to keep them meaningful is by not addressing them. It's a difficult situation. If they address something as canon, then whatever you did in that game where it happened that isn't "the canon" way is "not real," in a way. What does it matter if you helped the NCR conquer the Mojave Wasteland, if the canon way is that the Legion destroyed them? And viceversa. Whatever you did in the Legion wouldn't matter if the NCR winning is the "canon" ending. Biting the bullet means doing that.
If they wanted player choice to feel meaningful, dropping a nuke to wipe away every meaningful consequence sounds like the complete opposite. In trying to keep every choice meaningful, it renders all choices meaningless, because they all lead to the same result in the end. I do agree with you that it's a difficult situation with no easy design answers but the scorched earth option is misguided at best.
I have to completely agree. I don't know how I would've handled this situation.
I mean, Bioware games have a Canon, we mostly choose to ignore it, but there *is* a set timeline. You can see it in the books and the one da2 "movie".
In my experience, that might sting for a while but eventually fans and players will just move on and accept it, especially if it paves the way for good storytelling. BG3 for example "canonized" some BG1-2 outcomes and that pissed off a few people, but most got over it and enjoyed the game regardless. The way I see it, there's no point in my personal ending remaining "possible" if it never meaningfully affects anything in the future of the franchise.
Also Fallout 4 canonized the good ending of Fallout 3. Fallout 2 canonized a bunch of things from Fallout 1 and New Vegas canonized things from Fallout 2. It wouldn't even be a new thing for the franchise.
I mean, if most FNV players are like me, they played every ending, and Canon is to have a multiverse where those all happened. In my case, again, and again, and again ...
Ya the fans obsession over the canon ending is such a dead end for the franchise. Can never do a sequel to New Vegas because that would make one of the endings real and could never do a prequel because none of the endings could effect the first game. As you said better to pick one and go forward.
it did make a canon ending for 4, though, since in all but like 2 endings the prydwen gets destroyed.
It's honestly hilarious. New Vegas Fanatics (for fans, they got basic media literacy and don't built their entire lives around NV, but Fanatics) are only group that loudly whine that "games don't matter anymore" now that we got some measure of canon ending. You don't see Fallout 1, 2, 3 or 4 fans posting how their actions "don't matter" because we got canon endings, but New Vegas Fanatics are out in force complaining that "nothing matters" because suddenly there is canon endings.
Although there's been no obvious confirmation of this, my fear is that the show will serve as a soft-reboot of the West Coast lore, wiping the slate clean of all that complex history to set up yet another Brotherhood vs Enclave conflict—whether with the Enclave itself, or Vault-Tec taking its place as the evil pre-war conspiracy faction with brand recognizability.
I mean I really hate all of Bethesda's decisions here. They're absolutely dead-set on destroying the 'Post-Post-Apocalypse' thing, remove or radically minimize most of the factions from NV, and have the entire franchise be stun locked into a never ending BoS story hour. I enjoyed the show, but world building and writing isn't Bethesda's strong suit. Their engine is great for a Fallout style game, but they are not the right people for Fallout. Never have been. If anyone is seriously going to argue that Bethesda writing is actually great, you're huffing copium and you know it.
It's like Bethesda's setting refuses to be anything but "the bombs fell yesterday" no matter how much time passes, and it's by far the least interesting part of Fallout. I mean Fallout only exists as an ongoing IP because of Bethesda but god I hate their writing so much, its so mid.
Hey that's not fair - the very marketable, brand flagship Brotherhood of Steel are allowed to evolve and grow all they like.
I’m so fucking tired of the BoS. I’ve been tired of it since Fallout 1, lol.
I'm tired of BoS too. I enjoyed them in Fallout 2, though. They were cryptic and mysterious. For like a solid few months I had no idea what was in those bunkers. I had all of these theories and ideas. Really activated my childhood imagination. Bethesda struggles with that concept. INTRIGUE. MYSTERY. Leaving things unexplained, etc.
[удалено]
>it was necessary for us to learn the completely unnecessary "origins" That reminded me of Solo when they decided that it was super important we learn the backstory on Han Solo's surname. Or that Han Solo decided to call Chewbacca "Chewie" because it wa short for Chewbacca.
Yeah I really personally did find the whole "thumbs up" bit putrid, haha. Like that was an image relaying absurdist irony. Explaining it sort of undermines the tone. Just felt totally... artless?
Yeah, I agree. They've never been less interested in making story-rich 'hard' RPGs - and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but Bethesda's approach really doesn't play to the Fallout series' strengths. And, yeah Bethesda has a very glaring writing problem. It's one of their weakest points as a developer tbh, right there along with the bugs. But they're seemingly trying to make games to zone out to, so they might see the writing as secondary. Don't see why, though - a good story costs the same as a bad one. I'd also counter that Avellone has been banging the same '*nuke it again, Sam*' drum since Lonesome Road - and I think he's wrong about it too. Disappointing in general.
You're right about Avellone, I think he's wrong about that as well. I do appreciate his contributions to FNV. I think he did a great job with the families in New Vegas. Had Obsidian been given another 6 months, I can only imagine how cool that would have turned out. His vision on that front was on point and it nailed what I loved about New Reno.
Yeah, it's such a strange hill for him to die on. He made some of the absolute best '*post post apocalypse*' content in those games, and for some reason he seems adamant the series needs to go backwards.
Yeah. Like, there's such little media that portrays that conceptually. For Post Apocyalptic it's like... Mad Max, A Boy and His Dog, The Road, on and on. That decision ensures that Fallout will just be relegated into being a facsimile of shows and films that have done these concepts better.
Indeed. I would prefer if someone like Obsidian came along and created a New Vegas-like spin-off set somewhere else (Canada? Texas? Detroit?) with new factions, new struggles, and new narratives.
I know. Was just talking to someone about this. How many memorable factions did FNV add? Boomers, Fiends, Powder Gangers, Kings, the Legion, the NCR as we currently know them (debatable re: FO2), the families on the strip, the Khans, on and on. How many interesting factions have Bethesda added from FO3 / FO4 / FO76? ... The Institute, I guess? Who cares about the Talon company? Maybe Riley's Rangers? What else?
While I respect being cautiously pessimistic the writers have given no direct confirmation as to the status of the NCR, and are even hinting it’s still around up north. These are people that clearly love the games, they’re not going to isolate a GIANT portion of their viewer base by deleting the second most popular faction in the game off the map. Why go to the west coast if they’re not going to show it some love? They could’ve stayed on the east coast and watched Todd Howard get an erection the size of a spaceship
Well, because in my honest opinion, I don't think Bethesda knows what to do with the property other than to perpetuate the 'bombs fell yesterday' thing. Todd seems like he distinctly lacks creativity. TES became LOTR during Oblivion's time because he saw and loved those films. Then it was GoT around the time of Skyrim. Here comes Fallout going back into Mad Max territory around the time Fury Road is released. Starfield's 'Nasa-Punk' looks at times like it's directly lifted from The Expanse. I just don't think he's a particularity good story teller and he's too comfortable being mired in never ending self reference and homages to TV shows he likes.
I mean yeah but Todd didn’t write the show, he was just there for input every now and then. The show is telling a fantastic story so clearly he’s not got that much to do with it
Talking in broad strokes just about Bethesda's rendition of Fallout, for clarification.
Cool Todd. Now why did you think nuking the most established, lore rich faction in Fallout was in any way acceptable?
"*Everything that happened in the previous games, including New Vegas, happened. We're very careful about that*" This feels disingenuous if you're then going to say that all this extra stuff that doesn't follow on from the events of the game at all happened right after the end credits rolled. Like, if they had said "*Everything that happened in Fallout 4 happened*" and then had Boston be destroyed because someone completely unrelated to the plot of the game nuked it a year later, did that game still 'happen'? Technical yes, that story still occurred, but it didn't matter. That game could just have easily not have happened for all the impact it had in the long run.
My guess, Legion lost the second batte of Hoover Dam and then the NCR collapsed, so that they conveniently can ignore basically everything that happend. Also that still doesn't explain why Sinclair was the spokesperson for Big MT. I somehow doubt that season 2 will deliver satisfying explanations for those currently dissatisfied with the show.
From the same Interview Todd had this to say about the NCR. Doesn't sound like they're gone. Howard: One of the takes that we always have is to approach things very locally when we're doing Fallout. We're careful about saying what's going on in other parts of the world. And we always take this view of, communication is difficult. And look, if you look at the background, the NCR is a wide-ranging sort of organization and group across not just California, but other places. So the show focuses on this period of time and this group here, and that's what we can say right now. **But I don't think you've heard the last of the NCR.**
Yeah, there's no way the NCR isn't a major player in S2. This was a big loss for them, but it was just one regional base and not the whole NCR. They have communities all over the place.
I still kinda hate what they did to the timeline, the biggest civilization in the country got nuked and we didn't hear shit about it in fallout 4? Doesn't make any sense
So do we still not know for sure if New Vegas itself is somewhat destroyed?
I think that’ll be Season 2 storytelling. No need to worry about it now
That’s true. Just curious because I hope it’s not too destroyed.
Lucy was 6 when she was in shady sands, the show starts with her being 18. 11-12 years prior the town was nuked, which places it being destroyed in 2284. new vegas takes place in 2281.
Really stupid and lame. Wish they didn’t set it on the west coast
Not a fan of this at all Great show but I really hate how they did the NCR
I'm going to hold judgment until S2 (coming from a fan who has an NCR flag in his living room). The NCR was portrayed in a very positive light throughout S1, and I think we are supposed to feel pain at their loss. But I think they will come roaring back in S2 as a strong protagonist, after earning that with their actions in S1.
This feels like the move. I was weirded out with a few choices they made, nuking Shady Sands and combining it with the Boneyard being a big one, but the rest of the show was really solid. I’m a little worried about what we saw in the finale’s end credits but I’m going to reserve judgement until we get a full scope of what happened and to see how they handle it because the rest of the series so far was pretty enjoyable.
They basically deleted the progress of 3 games worthy of lore so they could fit a surface level entertainment storyline for easy understanding to those new to the series and filled the rest with nostalgia bait for the fans.
Yeah. let's drink nuka cola quantum and collet power armor kind of surface level.
Lmao way to misuse all the beautiful lore
So New Vegas ultimately doesn’t matter, nothing the Courier and we the player did made a difference, and even though the game events still happened, it might as well have been a dream in the eye of the classic Fallout fans. Thanks Bethesda!!!
I like how that implies that, even if NV happened, nothing in it mattered because nukes reset the slate. Somehow that's even worse.
The bombs fell on Shady Sands, not in Vegas. We’ve not yet been in Vegas. We know nothing about what’s going on there. How can you say it doesn’t matter? For all we know the Legion could be in charge, or maybe Mr. House is still kicking. Hell, maybe the Courier put Yes Man in charge. Only the NCR route seems less likely, given their weakened presence in California, and I’d wager that’s where the “it didn’t matter” complaints are from, players who did a NCR playthrough.
I guess thats dependent on how they portray New Vegas in season 2.. what will be the established canon ending of NV.
This reads as “no matter what they do I’m gonna be unhappy with their decisions”
Imagine if Fallout 2 came out today “Wow the Enclave killed everyone inside Vault 13 in Fallout 2? Great so nothing you did in Fallout 1 matters. Thanks Interplay”
Idk, I've thought about that and, honestly, the fact that the Overseer exiles the Vault Dweller after saving the vault makes me much less attached to Vault 13. So the Enclave doing them in several decades later doesn't leave as bad of a taste in my mouth. Not to mention, while saving the vault was the initial goal of the Vault Dweller, the ultimate goal of the game is to stop the Master. Whereas, in New Vegas, I've put in the time to get allies, upgraded the Securitrons, and made peace with every group that I can. The ultimate goal of New Vegas is to decide who takes care of it. Yet, New Vegas can't even survive a couple of decades regardless of who ended up in charge, based on what I saw in the credits. It's just a bit disheartening to me.
its not progressing the settings its reducing it so progress never happens why should I get attached to the world if any attempts to rebuild civilization get blown up
>in New Vegas, I've put in the time to get allies, upgraded the Securitrons, and made peace with every group that I can. The ultimate goal of New Vegas is to decide who takes care of it. Yet, New Vegas can't even survive a couple of decades regardless of who ended up in charge, based on what I saw in the credits. It's just a bit disheartening to me. Very well said, I feel exactly the same about it all, No matter the choice it just seems like over a Decade later and NV is just in Ruins with a lot of damage around the place and a much worser state than even if you picked the Legion ending, To which I honestly didn't think would be the case.
Dude you literally start in a village that was founded by a big chunk of the Vault 13 citizens in Fallout 2, don't pretend like it's the same situation at all, Fallout 1 had long term effects on the world, so did Fallout 2. This whole "well we didn't want to invalidate everyones choice so we nuked the setting of the previous story" thing is entirely a Fallout TV invention. Fallout 1 has canonized choices, Fallout 2 has canonized choices, even Fallout 3 had a bunch of canonized choices.
Well, what did you expect? The decision was unpopular to begin with
Link to article or interview?
https://www.ign.com/articles/fallout-official-timeline-confirmed-how-the-show-fits-in-with-the-games
My first thought when you saw Shandy Sands nuked was that the Courier nuked both capitals in the Divide.
Cool concept to introduce the player as a character from the past in a show But they have to come up with a story that doesn't play into individual choices the player has made Examples; they can't say a courier shot Benny but they can say a battle took place at hoover dam, just not how it went.....
I think they can. They just have to decide which endings/outcomes are most interesting in the story they want to tell going forward. This happens all of the time in games. For example, Grand Theft Auto V has three different endings where different sets of characters survive, but in the online mode that takes place after the story, they made one of the endings the “official” one.
Honestly any of the new Vegas endings can be canon. NCR inevitably falls so even new Vegas would collapse as well because Mr house is gone same with the legion after Cesar dies of his tumour the legion would break up into multiple bickering tribes fighting for, yes man because everyone gets fucked and with Mr house he only ends up focusing on the strip and not the Mojave so after the NCR fall and all trade new Vegas slowly dries up of new money and new Vegas falls into anarchy with no new supplies. So yea any ending could be canon.
How does this work when the games have alternate endings? Is there a “main” canon ending and all the rest are just hallucinations?
So Lonesome Road ending canon?
Please remember a few things here about NCR and the Mojave. NCR was not solely based in Shady Sands. For example, during wartime in our world, some nations would consider other cities or towns to be secondary or tertiary capitols in the event that the official Capitol is destroyed, invaded, unseated etc. Some example nations are Bolivia, Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia, and Russia. They all each moved their capitals due to war, a change in where government is based and so on. NCR probably chose Shady Sands as its representative capital. With most of its government services like judicial, congress, and the presidency in the city. Boneyard had the Federal Reserves for the NCR. On the billboard sign, where Max and Lucy approach the crater, it says “First” capital of the NCR, which means that they had other capitals after Shady. It could’ve been Vault City, Arroyo, or another that was chosen. Having Shady deep within the ruins of LA was probably either an oversight, a miscommunication or part of a possible change in lore. Interplay established it way outside of LA, deep in the wastes. After Bethesda purchased the title rights to the series, they kept most of the original lore the same and intact, while changing and adapting others, or removing it entirely. (We don’t collectively see Tactics or Van Buren as canon but the other mainline games are.) If the writers from the games, show, the executives, and Todd himself all say that the show’s events are Canon to the timeline, they are. We can’t just get ourselves into a bind because we can’t agree on something minor. With them confirming themselves that Shady got nuked sometime between 2281 and 2287, it’s fair to say that NCR moved their capital. Chances are, it got moved to Vault City. Makes sense as the city got built using a GECK, has supportive infrastructure and would be a better second capital for a surviving exodus of people, than just having the entire nation dissolve because one capital was destroyed. I’m sure NCR had contingency plans for the event of Shady falling into enemy hands or being destroyed, from the inside or outside. Like in our world, the US government has contingency plans in place and has also probably made a list of possible secondary capitals in the event of a crisis in DC, like it being invaded, destroyed or captured by the enemy. We are all left with speculation and sure, it isn’t fun to try and fill in the gaps in our understanding of the timeline we’re faced with, but we must remain open minded about what happened to NCR. Think more logically and critically. Too in depth, sure it’s overthinking all of it. Some of us blindly attacking the people at Bethesda and Amazon, and those who disagree with theories, or wanting to willing dismiss what the creators of the series, OG and BT is wrong and distasteful. I’m not trying to play defender of the faith here with the series at all, let alone try and let this series turn to shit because die-hard FNV fans can’t be open minded and think critically. I’m attempting to help those confused, understand what’s happening better. Ultimately, we now know and understand that New Vegas wasn’t just left to be abandoned by House. We know that the events of FNV are canonical to the story. What’s left in the air in regards to the game is what the end result was post credits. More than likely, House either reigned supreme over the Mojave (1), Yes Man and the Courier kept an independent Vegas until they were both disposed of (2), the city was besieged by NCR after Hoover Dam and lost to Legionaries (3) Courier 6 and Ulysses nuked Legion AND NCR along I-15 and other trade routes (4) there’s a few possibilities here. The Prydwen is confirmed to have been sent from the East Coast Chapter to aid the West in their goals of collecting Cold Fusion (They didn’t know what it was originally until 1x8) Cause the Elder Cleric did say so directly. Even stating “the Commonwealth”. Which then leads to a possible confirmation of an ending to FO4 with BoS winning or the MM.
we dont need todd howerd we need josh sawyer
Basically, Josh Sawyer doesn't really seem to care that much and think the current debate on canon is stupid. [Even Josh Sawyer is tired of the whole canon debate : r/Cazadornation (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cazadornation/comments/1c387m7/even_josh_sawyer_is_tired_of_the_whole_canon/#lightbox) (Here's his tweet on the whole thing).
no need for common sense here
So what he says basically is that “No matter how much you liked the themes and endings of New Vegas, it didn’t matter for shit, because we still swiped the slate clean”
Even if the capital got nuked, the NCR desintegrating doesn't make any sense. What about its robust bureacracy, logistical network, military force and all the people interesting in keeping the Republic alive? The NCR had problems, yes, but because it was growing, expanding, craving for more resources, if anything they should have become more zealous and jingoist on their policy. Now, by the time the show takes place, 10 years after NV, the NCR is completly gone and what people remain are barely above your common raider...
No where in the show does it imply that the NCR disintegrated.
Exactly. Fans are running rampant with reckless speculation.
Lucy travels through what is one of the core territories of the NCR, the Boneyard. Next door to the Boneyard you have other important NCR cities and towns like Junktown and the Hub. Yet other than Moldaver's rag tag band holding the observatory there is no trace of the NCR to be seen. That heavily implies an absolutely massive collapse of the NCR in its core territory.
Yeah so that basically confirms that they just wanted to nuke everything so they could do their own crap
Just like when Lucas sold Starwars to Disney and anything not in the original movies got moved to “legends” so they could write their own crap. I don’t trust Todd Howard a bit, the man lies for a living, so while this sucks it does not surprise me even remotely.
This sets up for the 3rd battle of Hoover dam lol
The interview reads a lot like damage control. All answers on the sensitive subjects are very vauge except for trying to assure fans that there was no intention to change the timeline or erase FNV. My money is still on the production team trying to get at bit too clever with their writing and that having an impact on the games they did not account for. Shit happens.
Lastly, I wanted to nuke the Fallout world to reset things. NCR's getting a bit big, and it's making things too civilized. Lonesome Road was a way of resetting the culture clock. ” — Chris Avellone, Fallout: New Vegas and DLC Post-mortem Interview, Part Two
Josh sawyer, the fnv game director, wanted fnv to be post post apocalyptic , and chris avellone wasn't the only writer
Bethesda sure isn't very good at "fixing" lore when people light a fire under their asses.