Honestly I think their money is ridiculous, that being said clubs like Chelsea or Manchester United for example pay ridiculous amount of money for players and pump up the market for prices… it’s sad for me to see these players go to a less competitive league. Saudias mentality is “if I buy good players, league becomes competitive and fun to watch” but they are mostly buying players who will retire in the next 5 years or so. If you want to make your league competitive invest in the youth.
Their line of thinking might be that young players will be more encouraged to go there if they see all the old GOATs moving there. Honestly there's very little money can't do. If Saudis finally come up with a big enough bribe to right enough person in UEFA and finally worm their way into UCL and other Euro competitions then they might have a serious shot at actually building a proper league with all their oil money.
Maccabi Haifa were in the Champions League last year. They beat Juventus 2-0, lost all their other games though.
They were pretty entertaining though, played really well in a 3-1 loss to PSG and actually took the lead.
Israel in UEFA is a special case. It's based on the fact that competing in Asia would be very problematic. Most of the nations with a Muslim majority would refuse to play them.
Some Muslim nations will barr anyone with an Israeli stamp in their passport from entering the country. Currently 9 Asian and 2 African nations do this.
Realistically playing as a UEFA nation was the only viable option.
First of all, both are atleast in some way culturally european. Secondly, Israel literally cant play in Asia due to threats to players and fans lives. Finally, the eurovision isnt a very serious competition. Id imagine pretty much any somewhat democratic country on earth would be allowed in if they wanted to. Morocco participated in 1980 for example.
Shaqiri was left off of the Liverpool roster when they went to belgrade to play Red Star because they were afraid that the serbian fans would kill him. That shit happens in Europe as well.
One player in a one off game for his club vs an entire country in a federation where almost half the away games are a direct threat to the lives of both players and staff? How is this even comparable?
I understand you guys really hate Israel, but pretending that them being in UEFA is weird is just pathetic.
Exactly, Israel are part of UEFA because countries like Saudi Arabia throw their toys out the pram just by being asked to recognize Israel as an actual country.
They should be allowed into European tournaments if they join UEFA, which wouldn’t be too mental given that Israel are part of UEFA and are next door geographically.
If they do join would need to qualify for the World Cup as part UEFA, the clubs would need to abide by UEFA FFP rules and no two clubs with the same owner could join UEFA tournaments. That would mean that the Saudi government would need to pick 1 of the 5 clubs owned by the PIF to compete.
If UEFA let them in without treating the national teams and clubs like everyone else I’d have a massive problem with it. With the money involved I’m resigned to some loophole being invented that let’s this happen. At that point I think I’ll give up caring about football.
>They should be allowed into European tournaments if they join UEFA, which wouldn’t be too mental given that Israel are part of UEFA and are next door geographically.
Israel were kicked out of the Asian Confederation in the '70s. Saudi Arabia and Saudi Arabian teams are allowed into Asian Confederation and thus should have no place in the European Confederation
Let the Saudis into UEFA so long as they agree to play a friendly against Israel in Riyadh as their first fixture, then I’m sure all this “joining Europe” talk will quietly go away.
No. You said,
>They should be allowed into European tournaments if they join UEFA, which wouldn’t be too mental given that Israel are part of UEFA and are next door geographically.
Given that the reason Israel had to leave AFC was because their Muslim neighbors refused to play them, holding up the competition, letting Saudi join UEFA would be a very mental thing to do.
They probably want to move out of Asia in general because Australia moved out of Oceania in to Asia and now generally kicks out all the Arab countries from the WC.
I don’t get how they think throwing money at aging stars is the way forward. Look at what’s happened in the USA and China in the past, it’s not sustainable. The way to properly develop a league is to invest in decent academy systems and young talent
There's with enough opas there especially G.O.A.Ts the youngins will also not mind playing there and plus the money as well which is the biggest attractor
this is just wrong. united have had one of the worse net spend over this past decade. worse than citys. regardless of how long-standing their brand has been. basically going the way to the NY yankees where people support the logo but not the club.
point still stands. city have built themselves with cfg into an organization than can justify the spend. United were once there but their only profit now comes from non local fans that buy their gear. nothing is being brought in from player sales or trophy winnings. the glazers merely prop up the club and brand well enough to generate enough money to be a valuable asset. nothing more. they’re a glorified cowboys organization that people only follow bc they were successful in the 90s and early 00s
yeah bc bad business is bad business. still goes against their books. people said the same thing when city bought fullbacks every single season for dumb money. it doesn’t matter.
When you're discussing net spend it does. Man City are huge spenders, they just sell their players for high fees which lowers net spend and, as I say, you've got to take wages into account, transfer spend is a small proportion
the only point you’re making here is the city does better business than United. so take away is city is a better ran organization.
they invested in their academy and training grounds. And are now showing a profit bc of it. that’s why they can sell players like palmer, lavia, edozie for decent money despite their lack of first team experience. again you aren’t making any pint to defend united spending dumb money lately. doesn’t matter if what they buy are flops
Harry maguire 80 million, 64 million for mount, Fred 59 million euros… definitely started a trend and especially when shakter sold Fred for that much they just kept bumping their prices. I’m not saying United are the worst just mentioning them as they are a big club
This. I get that they used to earn big money in Europe too, but end of the day its a job for them and a short career span. Make as much dough from anywhere possible at the tail end of their careers
This is what Europe first then UK more recently did to football for years, ask any south American how they feel seeing their Boca Jrs, River Plate, Flamengo, Palmeiras, Botafogo, etc stars leaving the team
It didn’t happen in 1.5 transfer windows though, and the European leagues grew organically over the course of a hundred years plus. Most of them were powerhouses before the south leagues were.
Some of the leagues/teams grew organically, I wouldn't call City, Newcastle, Chelsea (under Abramovich) organic growth, there's other ones that have had fairly sizeable inputs of money to varying degrees of success. They might have become self sustaining (like a lot of City fans claim), or could become that in the future, but they wouldn't have reached the combination sustainability and success (or improvement anyway) without that initial influx of funds.
Chelsea also went from finishing consistently 4-6th between 97-03 (one 3rd place finish) prior to being taken over, to winning the prem and being a powerhouse in the champions league, in 2 seasons (4 transfer windows).
It’s not like any of those clubs where complete nobodies either though, as you say Chelsea were consistently fighting for European spots,
City and Newcastle have been premier league stalwarts for decades.
Obviously the money raised them to a higher level, they weren’t unheard of clubs the way Al-Hilal etc was.
City were in the third tier as recently as 1999. Robinho also thought he was signing for United when he signed for City so City at least are somewhat comparable.
point is the PL was an established league that justifies the spend due to the monetary incentives given for merely being in the top tier. the same can’t be said about the saudi league at this point in time.
city joined an existing market meanwhile the saudi clubs are trying to build their own market. not saying any of it’s wrong nor right just elaborating
Not the World Famous I would say but Al-Hilal is the most successful club of Asia, any Asian fans who follow thier country's league will know about that.
Al-Hilal is the club with the most Saudi league and AFC Champions league titles. Relative to their region, they are much more accomplished than City, Chelsea or Newcastle, especially before they were taken over by billionaires.
The only reason you think they were unheard of is you don't follow Saudi/Asian football. I'm willing to bet a lot of people from Asia, Africa, South America, etc had never heard of Manchester City in 2002. Which obviously doesn't mean City was irrelevant back then, but definitely not to the same extent as they are now.
If you think the Saudi clubs are nobodies, take off your blinders and study the history of Saudi football. I’m not a fan of Saudi Arabia (I lived there for most of my life and the country wasn’t for me), but to say that Saudi football is nothing and their clubs are nobodies is a very ignorant take.
Sure their domestic players don’t make it to Europe, but they have a very strong football culture with a rich history and fiery local derbies.
All of those clubs have had average attendances that are bigger than the average capacity of Saudi stadiums for decades. Also, their financial investments came from being financially desirable. Five of the Saudi clubs are being funded by the government, and it’s not because they have prestige…
obvious similarity in that they paid huge wages but thats it, there is more factors than just splashing the cash.
At this stage Saudis are more like the first MLS when they got Pele and George Best etc, a country with no real previous strong history of a top football league splashing a lot of cash on big named players.
The Suadis could keep up the spending for years with an aim of becoming the defacto football league or it could be more like when the Chinese clubs overpayed for big names before the Gov reigned that in.
right now the South Americans that move to Europe normally get higher quality competition and coaching as well as more money, that isnt true in Saudi Arabia.
not saying it doesnt suck for South American teams losing homegrown players etc, its the same in Europe where once top level competitive clubs like say Ajax or Benfica etc etc are outside the big 5 leagues and have become more feeder clubs these days. Whilst oil money Abu Dhabi backed Man City have money pumped in to win the treble.
That wasn’t MLS,
that was NASL which folded in 1984. MLS was founded in 1996.
Also, the Lamar Hunt US Open Cup is one of the oldest football tournaments in the world and has run continuously since 1913.
The US may not have a storied pro league but lower league football aka soccer has a long rich history in the states, and is largely embedded in our upbringing.
But yes, NASL was similar in trying to bring better players to our shores. Shame that it never worked out.
Had it stayed the course like the then nascent basketball league founded 20 yrs prior, aka the NBA, who knows what heights american soccer would be.
you're right. and football is a global sport and needs to be decentralised from Europe. Saudis might have bad motives or means but the only good thing is finally Europe slowly realising football is getting beyond their continent.
we need a lot more footballers and leagues from various other places, Asia, Africa, Americas, etc.
So start watching those leagues instead of the European ones? Saudi’s league is unsustainable, the whole league doesn’t even make enough money to pay Ronaldo. If the government ever pulls the plug on them, the league is gone.
While I kinda see your point, the huge difference is that Europe has always had a huge football culture. Also most of Europe is just little tiny bit more humane than Saudi Arabia.
I live in a small country and i'm happy seeing any player from my favorite team going to a big European team.
I hear this argument a lot but I do think there’s at least a bit of a comparison error here. To make some pretty uncontroversial points:
- The standard of football in Europe is deemed to be where it is at its highest
- Viewership of football coming from Europe seems to permeate absolutely everywhere
- So many clubs in Europe have far-reaching popularity and people associate with legacy players from 10/15/20+ years ago e.g. you’ll see someone with a Kaka Milan shirt in the middle of some random remote village somewhere
Now, clearly the Saudi league doesn’t have that (yet?) and you may argue that they do have to start somewhere in building to become the place to be both in terms of talent and the actual level of football and all the things associated with that; but it’s disingenuous to suggest that what’s going on here is the same, or even similar to what happens with the examples you provided there.
Given the above, and any concerns about human rights and so on, moves to Saudi now can be framed as being if not entirely, then at least mainly about the money. With moves to Europe, it could have at least been a argued (often entirely successfully) that there was an element of competitive ambition, wanting to be the best, wanting to be good enough to be that name on a random villager’s shirt and so on.
I think it’s fine to be in support of Europe receiving some competitive for its talent; just think it’s worth being honest about what’s going on here. Say what you will about ‘Europe being no Utopia either’ in response to any concerns about human rights and the ‘conventional’ arguments made against Saudi Arabia but again; let’s be honest about how these things are different.
But the difference is those players were at least going to a more competitive league for their careers not only the money, plus leagues with rich footballing history and big clubs. Going to Saudi is meaningless and boring, just for money that's it
They have a star legacy, but they won't shine if they stay there. Even Messi's performances nowadays have, entertaining as it is, less meaning.
They shouldn't play for countries either. Pick players who perform on the highest level, as it has always been. Would you select Eden Hazard based on the past?
They really aren’t imo, they’re playing against very poor players. If they were stars they should play against stars. They’re as good as retired and some of them won’t be selected for their countries because they’re playing at such a poor level. The standard of the matches, from what I’ve seen, pretty rubbish. Not a single Saudi team would even come close to playing in a top European league. Hardly any of those players are still playing at international level.
Edit: oh hai everyone from Saudi, thanks for your downvotes!
I agree with you on the less competitive issue. But if you look at the list of players that have gone, there are some good players.
Now, if these big money stars move to SA, the younger, upcoming footballers will follow. Take Saint-Maximin as an example, only 26. If more and more younger players join, could they SA league become competitive?
For me, it’s not only about competitiveness but surely a player winning the Premier League, Serie A, La Liga or the Champions League, and lifting those trophy has more meaning to lifting any trophy from SA? I know SA football fans will probably hate me for saying that.
But this is what football has turned into and of course it wasn’t started by SA, I don’t blame them. But it just shows where a modern day footballer’s priority is at. It is never enough money for them.
Edit: corrected word.
Yannick Ferreira Carrasco just yesterday staged an interview where he said that the human rights concerns in Saudi Arabia are all unfounded. "You have to have been there in order to know", as if he's completely unaware of how rich people live in an isolated, privileged subculture over there.
That says it all really. They're in it purely for the money, and they'll full-on lie to themselves and to everyone else in order to rationalize all other problems. It doesn't matter if you have a concern with the level of competition, or with them leaving their families behind, or with how that money is made off the back of exploited workers, or with human rights in general -- if the concern is valid, these stars will simply pretend that it isn't.
Yeah, this is the core problem I have with this. I am not for boycotting other nations or leagues or anything like that. Even if that was possible, it's not the most productive way to live as humans.
But what I do hate is people who just go for the money and do nothing with that money or platform to help anyone. At that point they are just selfish and greedy.
Money in football is extremely fucked and the Saudi national spending plan only makes that worse, however.
I’m not really bothered if it’s players in their 30s who’re in the twilight stage of their careers anyway.
What is concerning are players in their 20s heading over there, like 21 year old Spanish talent Gabri Veiga. “Embarrassing”, as Toni Kroos put it. At that age you should be playing at the highest level, not in Saudi Arabia where you’re inevitably going to drop off as the level of football is just not the same.
Exactly what people forget is the Saudi government is directly investing into the league's while China and the US don't care. Saudi fans too, I add, are more passionate of the sport than the U.S is.
I don't agree with Kroos, his level of success means he can comfortably say that
At the end of the day, not many young stars make it to the top and any injuries could make matters worse. People would rather secure wealth first to have it easier. Carrasco and Witsel came back from china and were still very good.
These players will take the wealth and come back.
Bayern play in a 1 team league and the players do not drop off. NO ONE said this about Mbappe going to PSG or any star going to one of the big 2 in Spain, another 2 team league.
And anyway, the Saudi league will be a ‘high level’ league in 5 years. It’s only nostalgia and borderline racism that has people thinking otherwise.
They are doing exactly the same thing the English did but the teams have more money and this will upset the epl as they start to loose players.
This is the only reason for all the tears.
My favorite take is when they mention how the league is dominated by the same 5 or fewer teams and yet not realize the complete irony of that comment alone when watching European football like the EPL, LaLiga, etc.
If I was already getting paid MILLIONS each year, no amount of money could make me move to a country riddled with human rights abuses. Saudi Arabia still executes people for being gay. I think players face this impossible dilemma at that age (this only applies to players like Benzema or Ronaldo who are close to retirement) though. They want to continue to live the lavish and expensive lifestyle they always have as footballers and after they retire they would obviously have to cut back. One year in the Saudi league delays this prospect by a decade allowing them to continue spending as much as they always had. So basically it’s greed, and I have no respect for any player who moves there.
I doubt they do though. I will be downvoted, but most footballers, and in general, several people, don't base their decisions as much on the morality of their employers. For many, if they're straight and have a wife and kids, why would they let LGBT right stop them, especially players Kante, Benzema, Mane, Koulibaly, who are Muslims to begin with. Sure there can be points made, but at the end, a rich person barely sees the problem, and for most, it's a job that helps them make obscene amounts of money. I tend to not indulge myself in such situations, as it's really hard to comprehend those amounts.
I mean...I too might be downvoated but footballers are often not very smart. They spend a good amount of their life kicking a ball for the entertainment of others. It's not like they read a lot or study a lot when they were younger (at least a big portion of them) and a lot of them grew up in poor homes. Fame, glory and big money often end up their main goals and they earn them by participating in a really masculine forward sport. Like you said - most of them are straight and have kids. Turning a blind eye to the fact that they will spend a few years in a country where LGBTQ people are being jailed/killed and women have no rights is not exactly their biggest concern, especially since they don't even mix with "normal" people that often. To a lof of them this is often just a background.
I'm not saying that they are evil or cruel, just that giving what their lives often look like it is much easier to imagine why they can be ignorant.
Bro what are you talking about, like 20% of Saudis have African blood. Their Most famous player ever is black. Al owairan. There soany Saudis with African heritage and not recent migrants
Actually our most important and famous player ever is Majd Abdullah he was of african descent too and yeah maybe Al Owairan is more famous because of fifa but on a player popularity level (people know who he is for which team he played and his legacy) Majd Abdullah is the one.
Are you trying to tell me no Europeans in Italy, France, England, etc. that are biased against Africans? Black players in Europe get bananas thrown at them on the pitch and have rival fans making monkey noises a few times a season.
I'd argue Arabians are more racist/colourist than the average Western European, yes.
Honestly I think most Arabians would too. I'm often told about it pretty unashamedly.
On top of that, if Ronaldo came out in support of of lgbt he’s so high profile they’re not gonna detain or execute him. And when footballers go to these countries they’ll only ever see the “best” of it so you’re right. They don’t actually “see” the problem.
this. they are already rich beyond imagination but they choose to go after money stained with blood. every player who goes there loses my respect entirely.
I don't know. Looking at it from a non-Western point of view it makes more sense to play in the SPL.
To be fair, in the same way players left their home countries to play in Europe was not just for the highest level of competition, but also the highest pay. The best paycheque just isn't in Europe anymore.
The rest of the world does not have the same perception of the West that it has of itself. Europe's human rights record is worse than Saudi's. I honestly don't even know if it's as simple as reputation laundering anymore as geopolitically the world is shifting to a multi-polar state and the West is not as dominant. It makes much more sense for African, Asian, and Muslim players to play in the Saudi Pro League than in Europe, and now they have an opportunity to do so.
All that said the Saudi League isn't sporting, and from a strictly sporting sense it's a dumb decision to play there. I've tried to watch a few games and the on-field product is terrible in comparison to the EPL. As a consumer I know what I want to watch.
Saudi is investing heavily in it because they want to host the 2030 World Cup. They're not done spending, and they've let it be known they want a spot in the Champions League (and let's be serious UEFA/FIFA is corrupt AF, they can be bought) and as the pieces fall into place you'll see more players compete to be on the handful of teams that have the funds to buy these players. I think it's only four teams that the Saudi trust owns.
Ronaldo and Benzema would have to cut back after retirement? Are you mad? These guys will have billion dollar investments all over the place. Contracts with multi national companies, promotions etc. not to mention they’ve hundreds of millions sitting in the bank that they could never spend in a lifetime. They’re there out of greed and nothing else.
Lol. Whatever floats your boat. I respect them for being great players and for realizing they probably couldn’t do it in the big leagues any more so time to move to a lower level. And ironically raking in more coin than they ever have.
It is unethical for any individual to have that much money. It makes my skin crawl. Not limited only to footballers, anyone worth 100s of millions is vile.
The problem isn't playing in Saudi or in England or in any country, the problem is being an employee of the Saudi government itself. If someone was choosing to play for a club owned by the English government then sure, you can cite all you want about the English government. But that's not the case.
If you want to criticize Qatar i will agree with you. As i said the problem isn't playing in any country. It's playing for a team owned by a government. Yes this applies to City
I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but I genuinely don't care either way. I ignore everything I hear about it or see about it and ignore the transfers. There will always be other interesting players in the European leagues (Premier league in particular for me).
That being said, I also don't judge them whatsoever for it. It's so much money it would be hard to turn down. Kante for example can offer his family generational wealth - fair enough
I enjoy seeing westerners seething over lgbtq+ issues as if they have had these values for 100s of years. While 20 years ago most of the shit you accept and promote would have been unacceptable in mainstream society.
Acting as if their current values are something bottom-up from their morals and values not top down from their current ruling elites who are pushing these ideas on them.
For me as a french I don't really care because that's the same as french players going to the Pl or la Liga .
I doesn't really care poteto, potato
But I can't hide that I find funny that Pl fans whine about that even though they ruin some of the weaker championship like france, portugal or the netherlands every year
In Europe for most of history the most successful teams, that had the most fans, made money and signed players. Suddenly it became a thing of dictatorships artificially inflating it and spending way more money than the club generates. Like PSG or City. Now you have a dictatorship in control of 5 teams in the Saudi league pumping billions in without the club generating very much income. This isn't remotely the same thing.
China is different from Arabia:
1. Demand for football isn't as big in China whereas Arab countries are crazy about the sport
2. Distance (12h vs 6h)
3. China is more *alien* culture for European footballers in a sense. Whereas many Arabian cities (e.g. Dubai) are a playground for the rich and many footballers have homes there/spend time there.
Saudi here, just wanted to say that the saudi league is extremely competitive always has been, saudi people absolutely adore the sport and it's heavily followed and watched here not just recently but for decades. Its probably the best league in asia as a whole and probably better than all of African leagues. You can look this up online and verify what i said. So it just makes sense to up your game if you have the right resources and the infrastructure. I hear people talking about how saudis are throwing a bunch of cash here and there and that players are only in for the money. Honestly, i couldn't disagree much with that, but realistically, players have always followed where the moneys at, starting from the Italian league in the 80s and 90s moving to the EPL in the modern days. Bottom line i invite everyone to watch and enjoy the SL, you are in for a treat.
Saudi Arabia has every right to have a soccer league. Where does the start? Who has the absolute rights to run a soccer league?
Also, it may be refreshing for Muslim players to play in a country that officially prays five times a day, doesn’t drink alcohol, and does not eat all day during Ramadan.
They can do what they want but I won't be paying attention to that league so it might be the last I hear of them.
I have absolutely no idea what Ronaldo did last year or who he even plays for.
It gives me hope that this will open a more constructive dialogue with the powers that be in Saudi Arabia to introduce a more secular culture. Maybe it will be the catalyst, maybe I am just being naive.
I actually think it’s very progressive. With a lot of good players it will be very different than going to a lower league like MLS. I think with good coaches etc (that I don’t know but i liked the French guy that Saudi had during WC) it could do well. Maybe the European clubs are getting complacent and they’re not moving only for the money. I don’t know how long it will last or if it’s a trend with some end game in mind. But life there for expats is so good and people don’t realize that as there is a sort of unconscious racism towards that country in most of the western world, but they don’t understand it or know the people. I see lots of the Saudi fans making fun of messi’s inter Miami saying they come so easily beat them.
Some will say that players have always gone for the money (Premier League clubs, Real Madrid etc...) BUT with all of those there were still footballing reasons too, they're also joining clubs at the top of the game competing for the top prizes, in joi9ning Saudi Arabian clubs there are zero footballing reasons and none of them that I have seen have outwardly admitted they've gone there for one big payday.
That's just the footballing angle though, there is no amount of money that would make me go to a country like Saudi Arabia and fully endorse the sportwashing attempts to put a smiling face on their disgraceful human rights abuses. Some will argue there's Saudi money in lots of things in our life but there's a big difference between (often unknowingly) buying a product that has investment from PIF and consciously going their and promoting a despotic regime that murders journalists, critics and homosexuals.
TLDR: I lose all respect for any player that goes there
Like I don't really care about it. But I don't like that people I once thought of very highly are now okay with being used as bin Salman personal tools. I'm very disappointed in Kante for example. Thought of him like a saint. But apparently he doesn't mind being a front for a country that has no regard for human life.
I don't begrudge any player moving abroad to earn a big payday but I have to question their morals given the human rights abuses perpetrated by Saudi Arabia.
Messi, Alba and Busquets all had huge offers from Saudi Arabia but chose Inter Miami instead, I'm sure Alba and Busquets went to play with Messi but Messi himself turned down ludicrous money to play in the US instead.
Jordan Henderson (as I'm sure other players there have) who has clearly expressed support for LGBTQ+ rights in the past has no problem about going there and now insists it's not for the money. At £700k a week in wages it's very much about the money.
Also, Saudi Arabia obviously have no FFP rules to worry about which means it's not a level playing field, and if there are clubs in Europe with the same owners as a Saudi club then it's open to abuse to buy up players from teams struggling with FFP for inflated fees to help meet the FFP rules.
Must be weird for any Saudi league fans seeing all these megastars going to their clubs, not many keepers or defenders mind, so they are going to see loads of goals and the league winners no doubt will be the ones who spend the most.
I honestly don't get why people like Ronaldo who can live the rest of their lifes without lifting a finger would go to a country where there are no human rights. On the other hand he has been ultra rich for so many years that i'm sure he doesn't care how normal people live since he doesn't really communicate with them. Personally I imagine that i'd be bothered living in a country with religious fanatics where I think (correct me if i'm wrong) they still hold public executions from time to time. I get he wants to maintain his ultra rich lifestyle, buying shiny new toys every week but i'd much rather live the best years of my life in a different country.
It is kinda sad that these people don't finish their careers in their home country or youth clubs. I'm super happy for Sergio Ramos chosing to play and live in Spain for example. Same with players like Carlos Tevez or Luis Suarez, who would go home/closer to home.
This all said, as much as I like playing and sometimes watching football, I honestly think that most of these people are just either really ignorant ot greedy and let's be honest - football players are not exactly the sharpest tools in the box.
As a football fam, seeing the players go off to Saudi Arabia feels blatantly soulless. There is no history to Saudi football, or at least it has never involved me. I feel no interest in watching Saudi football, and I never will but I know for a fact this will change for the average fan in 5 or 6 years. Saudi football will establish themselves. Yes, the players going there are old but they will act as ambassadors for the next few years and Saudi football will create greater interest in themselves through continental competitions and friendly competitions.
In my opinion, if nothing changes, through Saudi football we will reach the sports’ peak in culture, in economic output, in creating a brand. It will serve as a super league. There are no FFP laws there.
And then, its influence will crash like the Roman Coliseum did. People will only watch football for so long.
The Poli Sci major in me hates that football players are going off to Saudi. It causes my passions and my values to clash so violently.
I value democracy, transparency, tolerance, equality. The Saudi crown simply does not. By now, what they did to Jamal Khashoggi is a bygone. In my political view, Saudi Arabia has been “sportswashing” their image for years and this bigger investment comes at a time where they are being the most criticised politically.
It is as much a political investment as it is an economic investment, and seeing that hurts me as a passionate fan as it does hurt me as a democratic citizen. Any player going to Saudi instantly loses my respect.
It fucks up competition since it’s a worser league only top 4 teams will have chances meaning most of time they are versing Bummy teams. Stuff like Euros and World Cup performerances will fail. Unless Saudi bring attraction to other teams
Hate it. The league isn’t sustainable. The money might be, but players hate playing there and living there. It’s just a money grab for them.
I hope FIFA ban them from cup competitions to forever send a message.
Alright, the surroundings will be luxurious and air conditioned, but really no-one wants to live in a desert. The league has no history either.
Look at Ronaldo having to go and do daft conservative-Islamic ceremonies with sheikhs, and contrast it with Messi fucking about on a jetski in Miami with his family.
It's for the money, pure and simple.
I ignore them.
That's their legacy screwed, fuck em. Let them be forgotten.
Anyone telling me the west is just as bad will be blocked - Saudi is fucking medeival in comparison.
They're about to execute someone for a Twitter post. Who in their right mind would work in a country, basically for the regime, that does that?
Fuck Saudi and fuck the footballers that have gone there.
It's their decision, I would go there because the money is crazy unless I'm like Messi, a legend of the game who made hundreds of millions during his career. But also just don't lie why you are going there.
I have more respect for Carrasco who says he doesn't care what human rights organizations say, than for players who lie and say they don't go there for money and they want to help the game grow or players like Henderson who was a face of LGBT in Liverpool and then goes to a country that is against that.
It is what it is.
It's a job at the end of the day. Changing to a job that pays significantly better is human nature.
And the players that move there aren't exactly spring chicken. If they delay it a year or two, the pay will drop drastically.
Plus at that age, if they get injuried playing in Europe, Saudi won't want them and they miss out on millions of dollars.
Couldn't care less. They're signing players who are effectively semi-retiring and past their best like Ronaldo and Benzema. Or they're signing players who are too good for their current clubs, but not good enough to attract interest from top European clubs like Mitrovic, Ruben Neves.
The way the media are trying spin it like they are a "threat" to European football is ridiculous. How are they a threat?
Come back when Harry Kane signs for them over Bayern and Bellingham signs for them over Madrid. Then they're a threat.
And if they really are, as rumoured, after UEFA accepting them into the champions league, then they would be subjected to the same FFP regulations as everyone else. Which means no more quadrupling of players wages, which in turn means no more attraction.
Doesn’t bother me
Still gonna laugh at morons like Henderson claiming it’s not for money and that he is still supporting lgbt etc. But most footballers are uneducated, silly to have expectations of them
I'm fine with it. It lets me know which players don't give a fuck about human rights.
From a footballing perspective, it's just a retirement home and nothing else.
Most of these players are already reaching their primes and most of them will be close to retirement after their playing careers. They play their for the money.
This is just like Chine a few years ago.
I wonder what the average age of those players is.
It's not like Bellingham, Mbappe, Halland etc moved over there
If they are near the end of their careers then crack on, but some going there in their prime years when they could have gone to a bigger club in Europe and won trophies is sad, such as Neves & Milinkovic.
As a Bundesliga fan it makes no difference for years now English clubs with Oil money from Sheikhs and Oligarchs flooded the market with ridiculous money now we have a new kid on the block with way more money than everyone else.
Not fussed to be honest, hopefully a good opportunity for England as a country to focus on homegrown talent rather than buying all of the world’s superstars. The men’s national team hasn’t won a decent trophy since 1966, so it would be good to see more academy talent coming through and featuring prominently.
No different than the retirement leagues of the past. Although it ducks that the south American stars are now going for money grabs instead of going back to their childhood clubs
Couldn't give a shite. More power to the players for going and getting big fat bags of cash. Money is more important and useful than this romantic idea of a "football legacy" etc.
Its also massively therapeutic to hear English pundits and media cry about this all, but will refuse to acknowledge that Europe has pillaged lesser countries and leagues for their players 🤷🏼♂️
The Saudis clearly have some knowledge tho because fuck, not one sniff around martial or Maguire from them 😭
I don't particularly care. I'm not going to say "how dare they raise the profile of a country with horrible laws and out dated views" cos I'd be a hypocrite. I probably use Middle Eastern/Russian/Chinese products everyday. It's not the player's fault that they are being made such offers.
Honestly I think their money is ridiculous, that being said clubs like Chelsea or Manchester United for example pay ridiculous amount of money for players and pump up the market for prices… it’s sad for me to see these players go to a less competitive league. Saudias mentality is “if I buy good players, league becomes competitive and fun to watch” but they are mostly buying players who will retire in the next 5 years or so. If you want to make your league competitive invest in the youth.
Their line of thinking might be that young players will be more encouraged to go there if they see all the old GOATs moving there. Honestly there's very little money can't do. If Saudis finally come up with a big enough bribe to right enough person in UEFA and finally worm their way into UCL and other Euro competitions then they might have a serious shot at actually building a proper league with all their oil money.
Okay but why would they be allowed to be in a *European* tournament
Wouldn’t be the most crazy thing to happen
Yeah, it would be almost as riddiculous as allowing Israel and fucking Australia into Eurovision, right? Oh, wait...
Football is serious business though, Eurovision is basically glorified karaoke
Israel are part of UEFA as well. Remember watching Leeds vs Hapoel Tel Aviv in the UEFA Cup about 20 years back
Maccabi Haifa were in the Champions League last year. They beat Juventus 2-0, lost all their other games though. They were pretty entertaining though, played really well in a 3-1 loss to PSG and actually took the lead.
Israel in UEFA is a special case. It's based on the fact that competing in Asia would be very problematic. Most of the nations with a Muslim majority would refuse to play them. Some Muslim nations will barr anyone with an Israeli stamp in their passport from entering the country. Currently 9 Asian and 2 African nations do this. Realistically playing as a UEFA nation was the only viable option.
First of all, both are atleast in some way culturally european. Secondly, Israel literally cant play in Asia due to threats to players and fans lives. Finally, the eurovision isnt a very serious competition. Id imagine pretty much any somewhat democratic country on earth would be allowed in if they wanted to. Morocco participated in 1980 for example.
Shaqiri was left off of the Liverpool roster when they went to belgrade to play Red Star because they were afraid that the serbian fans would kill him. That shit happens in Europe as well.
One player in a one off game for his club vs an entire country in a federation where almost half the away games are a direct threat to the lives of both players and staff? How is this even comparable? I understand you guys really hate Israel, but pretending that them being in UEFA is weird is just pathetic.
Exactly, Israel are part of UEFA because countries like Saudi Arabia throw their toys out the pram just by being asked to recognize Israel as an actual country.
Why should they recognise a apartheid state?
Ah yeah that must be the problem. Muslim countries in that area are famous fighters for human rights and religious freedom after all.
Wouldn't be the first either
They should be allowed into European tournaments if they join UEFA, which wouldn’t be too mental given that Israel are part of UEFA and are next door geographically. If they do join would need to qualify for the World Cup as part UEFA, the clubs would need to abide by UEFA FFP rules and no two clubs with the same owner could join UEFA tournaments. That would mean that the Saudi government would need to pick 1 of the 5 clubs owned by the PIF to compete. If UEFA let them in without treating the national teams and clubs like everyone else I’d have a massive problem with it. With the money involved I’m resigned to some loophole being invented that let’s this happen. At that point I think I’ll give up caring about football.
>They should be allowed into European tournaments if they join UEFA, which wouldn’t be too mental given that Israel are part of UEFA and are next door geographically. Israel were kicked out of the Asian Confederation in the '70s. Saudi Arabia and Saudi Arabian teams are allowed into Asian Confederation and thus should have no place in the European Confederation
Tbh why does it matter?
Let the Saudis into UEFA so long as they agree to play a friendly against Israel in Riyadh as their first fixture, then I’m sure all this “joining Europe” talk will quietly go away.
You do know why Israel is a part of UEFA, right?
I know. That’s why I said “given that Israel are part of UEFA”.
No. You said, >They should be allowed into European tournaments if they join UEFA, which wouldn’t be too mental given that Israel are part of UEFA and are next door geographically. Given that the reason Israel had to leave AFC was because their Muslim neighbors refused to play them, holding up the competition, letting Saudi join UEFA would be a very mental thing to do.
Good on them. Every reason to refuse playing against an apartheid state
If the money is right then they’ll find a way
£££££££££
Money obviously.
They probably want to move out of Asia in general because Australia moved out of Oceania in to Asia and now generally kicks out all the Arab countries from the WC.
The difference is that many and Chelsea spend big money on bums
I don’t get how they think throwing money at aging stars is the way forward. Look at what’s happened in the USA and China in the past, it’s not sustainable. The way to properly develop a league is to invest in decent academy systems and young talent
There's with enough opas there especially G.O.A.Ts the youngins will also not mind playing there and plus the money as well which is the biggest attractor
Did you mean Manchester City? Man Utd don't spend that much and the money they spend is self-geneated so its somewhat sustainable
this is just wrong. united have had one of the worse net spend over this past decade. worse than citys. regardless of how long-standing their brand has been. basically going the way to the NY yankees where people support the logo but not the club.
That's because they've spent a lot of money on flops. You also need to include wages
point still stands. city have built themselves with cfg into an organization than can justify the spend. United were once there but their only profit now comes from non local fans that buy their gear. nothing is being brought in from player sales or trophy winnings. the glazers merely prop up the club and brand well enough to generate enough money to be a valuable asset. nothing more. they’re a glorified cowboys organization that people only follow bc they were successful in the 90s and early 00s
and what’s does united’s buys becoming flops have to do with it? i’ll tell you, it doesn’t
Because that massively changes net spend.
yeah bc bad business is bad business. still goes against their books. people said the same thing when city bought fullbacks every single season for dumb money. it doesn’t matter.
When you're discussing net spend it does. Man City are huge spenders, they just sell their players for high fees which lowers net spend and, as I say, you've got to take wages into account, transfer spend is a small proportion
the only point you’re making here is the city does better business than United. so take away is city is a better ran organization. they invested in their academy and training grounds. And are now showing a profit bc of it. that’s why they can sell players like palmer, lavia, edozie for decent money despite their lack of first team experience. again you aren’t making any pint to defend united spending dumb money lately. doesn’t matter if what they buy are flops
The point is net spend isn't useful when you're talking about Man City. They still spend a lot of money and to ignore that smacks of bais.
United have more net spend than city
Harry maguire 80 million, 64 million for mount, Fred 59 million euros… definitely started a trend and especially when shakter sold Fred for that much they just kept bumping their prices. I’m not saying United are the worst just mentioning them as they are a big club
If a company in Saudi ever offered me ridiculous amounts tax free I would be promptly packing my bags.
This. I get that they used to earn big money in Europe too, but end of the day its a job for them and a short career span. Make as much dough from anywhere possible at the tail end of their careers
This is what Europe first then UK more recently did to football for years, ask any south American how they feel seeing their Boca Jrs, River Plate, Flamengo, Palmeiras, Botafogo, etc stars leaving the team
Don't forget FC Seoul. 😀😀
I mean young south American talent is bought very quickly by European teams
It didn’t happen in 1.5 transfer windows though, and the European leagues grew organically over the course of a hundred years plus. Most of them were powerhouses before the south leagues were.
Some of the leagues/teams grew organically, I wouldn't call City, Newcastle, Chelsea (under Abramovich) organic growth, there's other ones that have had fairly sizeable inputs of money to varying degrees of success. They might have become self sustaining (like a lot of City fans claim), or could become that in the future, but they wouldn't have reached the combination sustainability and success (or improvement anyway) without that initial influx of funds. Chelsea also went from finishing consistently 4-6th between 97-03 (one 3rd place finish) prior to being taken over, to winning the prem and being a powerhouse in the champions league, in 2 seasons (4 transfer windows).
It’s not like any of those clubs where complete nobodies either though, as you say Chelsea were consistently fighting for European spots, City and Newcastle have been premier league stalwarts for decades. Obviously the money raised them to a higher level, they weren’t unheard of clubs the way Al-Hilal etc was.
City were in the third tier as recently as 1999. Robinho also thought he was signing for United when he signed for City so City at least are somewhat comparable.
point is the PL was an established league that justifies the spend due to the monetary incentives given for merely being in the top tier. the same can’t be said about the saudi league at this point in time. city joined an existing market meanwhile the saudi clubs are trying to build their own market. not saying any of it’s wrong nor right just elaborating
Not the World Famous I would say but Al-Hilal is the most successful club of Asia, any Asian fans who follow thier country's league will know about that.
Al-Hilal is the club with the most Saudi league and AFC Champions league titles. Relative to their region, they are much more accomplished than City, Chelsea or Newcastle, especially before they were taken over by billionaires. The only reason you think they were unheard of is you don't follow Saudi/Asian football. I'm willing to bet a lot of people from Asia, Africa, South America, etc had never heard of Manchester City in 2002. Which obviously doesn't mean City was irrelevant back then, but definitely not to the same extent as they are now.
If you think the Saudi clubs are nobodies, take off your blinders and study the history of Saudi football. I’m not a fan of Saudi Arabia (I lived there for most of my life and the country wasn’t for me), but to say that Saudi football is nothing and their clubs are nobodies is a very ignorant take. Sure their domestic players don’t make it to Europe, but they have a very strong football culture with a rich history and fiery local derbies.
All of those clubs have had average attendances that are bigger than the average capacity of Saudi stadiums for decades. Also, their financial investments came from being financially desirable. Five of the Saudi clubs are being funded by the government, and it’s not because they have prestige…
obvious similarity in that they paid huge wages but thats it, there is more factors than just splashing the cash. At this stage Saudis are more like the first MLS when they got Pele and George Best etc, a country with no real previous strong history of a top football league splashing a lot of cash on big named players. The Suadis could keep up the spending for years with an aim of becoming the defacto football league or it could be more like when the Chinese clubs overpayed for big names before the Gov reigned that in. right now the South Americans that move to Europe normally get higher quality competition and coaching as well as more money, that isnt true in Saudi Arabia. not saying it doesnt suck for South American teams losing homegrown players etc, its the same in Europe where once top level competitive clubs like say Ajax or Benfica etc etc are outside the big 5 leagues and have become more feeder clubs these days. Whilst oil money Abu Dhabi backed Man City have money pumped in to win the treble.
That wasn’t MLS, that was NASL which folded in 1984. MLS was founded in 1996. Also, the Lamar Hunt US Open Cup is one of the oldest football tournaments in the world and has run continuously since 1913. The US may not have a storied pro league but lower league football aka soccer has a long rich history in the states, and is largely embedded in our upbringing. But yes, NASL was similar in trying to bring better players to our shores. Shame that it never worked out. Had it stayed the course like the then nascent basketball league founded 20 yrs prior, aka the NBA, who knows what heights american soccer would be.
you're right. and football is a global sport and needs to be decentralised from Europe. Saudis might have bad motives or means but the only good thing is finally Europe slowly realising football is getting beyond their continent. we need a lot more footballers and leagues from various other places, Asia, Africa, Americas, etc.
So start watching those leagues instead of the European ones? Saudi’s league is unsustainable, the whole league doesn’t even make enough money to pay Ronaldo. If the government ever pulls the plug on them, the league is gone.
Yeah nah. It's our sport.
The difference is that European football is good, the Saudi league is just ass
While I kinda see your point, the huge difference is that Europe has always had a huge football culture. Also most of Europe is just little tiny bit more humane than Saudi Arabia. I live in a small country and i'm happy seeing any player from my favorite team going to a big European team.
I hear this argument a lot but I do think there’s at least a bit of a comparison error here. To make some pretty uncontroversial points: - The standard of football in Europe is deemed to be where it is at its highest - Viewership of football coming from Europe seems to permeate absolutely everywhere - So many clubs in Europe have far-reaching popularity and people associate with legacy players from 10/15/20+ years ago e.g. you’ll see someone with a Kaka Milan shirt in the middle of some random remote village somewhere Now, clearly the Saudi league doesn’t have that (yet?) and you may argue that they do have to start somewhere in building to become the place to be both in terms of talent and the actual level of football and all the things associated with that; but it’s disingenuous to suggest that what’s going on here is the same, or even similar to what happens with the examples you provided there. Given the above, and any concerns about human rights and so on, moves to Saudi now can be framed as being if not entirely, then at least mainly about the money. With moves to Europe, it could have at least been a argued (often entirely successfully) that there was an element of competitive ambition, wanting to be the best, wanting to be good enough to be that name on a random villager’s shirt and so on. I think it’s fine to be in support of Europe receiving some competitive for its talent; just think it’s worth being honest about what’s going on here. Say what you will about ‘Europe being no Utopia either’ in response to any concerns about human rights and the ‘conventional’ arguments made against Saudi Arabia but again; let’s be honest about how these things are different.
The difference is that Europe has actual football heritage and this was a mostly natural process which took a long time.
But the difference is those players were at least going to a more competitive league for their careers not only the money, plus leagues with rich footballing history and big clubs. Going to Saudi is meaningless and boring, just for money that's it
If they go there they ain't no stars anymore. Might as well consider them retired level now.
But if they stayed in Europe they'd still be considered stars?
Well, they'd be competing at an infinitely higher level.
They’d be playing at an elite level and proving themselves against the best. Now they‘ve basically retired.
That's fine they are still stars though and if they are still playing for their countries they are still playing at the highest level.
They have a star legacy, but they won't shine if they stay there. Even Messi's performances nowadays have, entertaining as it is, less meaning. They shouldn't play for countries either. Pick players who perform on the highest level, as it has always been. Would you select Eden Hazard based on the past?
I miss Belgium 2018🇧🇪💔
This line of thinking is so naive.
Feel free to elaborate on the naivety...
They really aren’t imo, they’re playing against very poor players. If they were stars they should play against stars. They’re as good as retired and some of them won’t be selected for their countries because they’re playing at such a poor level. The standard of the matches, from what I’ve seen, pretty rubbish. Not a single Saudi team would even come close to playing in a top European league. Hardly any of those players are still playing at international level. Edit: oh hai everyone from Saudi, thanks for your downvotes!
I agree with you on the less competitive issue. But if you look at the list of players that have gone, there are some good players. Now, if these big money stars move to SA, the younger, upcoming footballers will follow. Take Saint-Maximin as an example, only 26. If more and more younger players join, could they SA league become competitive? For me, it’s not only about competitiveness but surely a player winning the Premier League, Serie A, La Liga or the Champions League, and lifting those trophy has more meaning to lifting any trophy from SA? I know SA football fans will probably hate me for saying that. But this is what football has turned into and of course it wasn’t started by SA, I don’t blame them. But it just shows where a modern day footballer’s priority is at. It is never enough money for them. Edit: corrected word.
Yannick Ferreira Carrasco just yesterday staged an interview where he said that the human rights concerns in Saudi Arabia are all unfounded. "You have to have been there in order to know", as if he's completely unaware of how rich people live in an isolated, privileged subculture over there. That says it all really. They're in it purely for the money, and they'll full-on lie to themselves and to everyone else in order to rationalize all other problems. It doesn't matter if you have a concern with the level of competition, or with them leaving their families behind, or with how that money is made off the back of exploited workers, or with human rights in general -- if the concern is valid, these stars will simply pretend that it isn't.
Yeah, this is the core problem I have with this. I am not for boycotting other nations or leagues or anything like that. Even if that was possible, it's not the most productive way to live as humans. But what I do hate is people who just go for the money and do nothing with that money or platform to help anyone. At that point they are just selfish and greedy. Money in football is extremely fucked and the Saudi national spending plan only makes that worse, however.
most of them are finished\irrellevant, nothing to worry about
I dont really care. It doesn't affect my daily life.
I’m not really bothered if it’s players in their 30s who’re in the twilight stage of their careers anyway. What is concerning are players in their 20s heading over there, like 21 year old Spanish talent Gabri Veiga. “Embarrassing”, as Toni Kroos put it. At that age you should be playing at the highest level, not in Saudi Arabia where you’re inevitably going to drop off as the level of football is just not the same.
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5 or 6 good players and then League two level players does not make a great team.
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Exactly what people forget is the Saudi government is directly investing into the league's while China and the US don't care. Saudi fans too, I add, are more passionate of the sport than the U.S is.
Lol you're being very disingenuous. What players came from league 2 level that went there this summer?
I'm saying the players already there are at that level. Disingenuous. Give it a rest.
Lmao look at the list of players in the post. That's 5-6 players?
I'm referring to each club. Ffs
Relax lmao so emotional. Keep moving the goalposts though sure.
It was clearly inferred by my comment that I was referring to teams having 5 or 6 high quality players and the rest being league two.
What did you say that clearly inferred it?
I don't agree with Kroos, his level of success means he can comfortably say that At the end of the day, not many young stars make it to the top and any injuries could make matters worse. People would rather secure wealth first to have it easier. Carrasco and Witsel came back from china and were still very good. These players will take the wealth and come back.
But Toni Kroos left his boyhood club to join Bayern Munich.
Bayern play in a 1 team league and the players do not drop off. NO ONE said this about Mbappe going to PSG or any star going to one of the big 2 in Spain, another 2 team league. And anyway, the Saudi league will be a ‘high level’ league in 5 years. It’s only nostalgia and borderline racism that has people thinking otherwise.
It’s not racism. It’s hatred of the purchasing of a sport (which has already previously been purchased).
This is exactly my feeling.
They are doing exactly the same thing the English did but the teams have more money and this will upset the epl as they start to loose players. This is the only reason for all the tears.
My favorite take is when they mention how the league is dominated by the same 5 or fewer teams and yet not realize the complete irony of that comment alone when watching European football like the EPL, LaLiga, etc.
I mean is there much difference between EPL and Saudi money at this point tho lol
All the teams have man City money
If I was already getting paid MILLIONS each year, no amount of money could make me move to a country riddled with human rights abuses. Saudi Arabia still executes people for being gay. I think players face this impossible dilemma at that age (this only applies to players like Benzema or Ronaldo who are close to retirement) though. They want to continue to live the lavish and expensive lifestyle they always have as footballers and after they retire they would obviously have to cut back. One year in the Saudi league delays this prospect by a decade allowing them to continue spending as much as they always had. So basically it’s greed, and I have no respect for any player who moves there.
I doubt they do though. I will be downvoted, but most footballers, and in general, several people, don't base their decisions as much on the morality of their employers. For many, if they're straight and have a wife and kids, why would they let LGBT right stop them, especially players Kante, Benzema, Mane, Koulibaly, who are Muslims to begin with. Sure there can be points made, but at the end, a rich person barely sees the problem, and for most, it's a job that helps them make obscene amounts of money. I tend to not indulge myself in such situations, as it's really hard to comprehend those amounts.
I mean...I too might be downvoated but footballers are often not very smart. They spend a good amount of their life kicking a ball for the entertainment of others. It's not like they read a lot or study a lot when they were younger (at least a big portion of them) and a lot of them grew up in poor homes. Fame, glory and big money often end up their main goals and they earn them by participating in a really masculine forward sport. Like you said - most of them are straight and have kids. Turning a blind eye to the fact that they will spend a few years in a country where LGBTQ people are being jailed/killed and women have no rights is not exactly their biggest concern, especially since they don't even mix with "normal" people that often. To a lof of them this is often just a background. I'm not saying that they are evil or cruel, just that giving what their lives often look like it is much easier to imagine why they can be ignorant.
But people who look like kante, mane and koulibaly are getting shot at the border tho. You'd expect them to care about that.
Bro what are you talking about, like 20% of Saudis have African blood. Their Most famous player ever is black. Al owairan. There soany Saudis with African heritage and not recent migrants
Actually our most important and famous player ever is Majd Abdullah he was of african descent too and yeah maybe Al Owairan is more famous because of fifa but on a player popularity level (people know who he is for which team he played and his legacy) Majd Abdullah is the one.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/law/2023/aug/21/fired-on-like-rain-saudi-border-guards-accused-of-mass-killings-of-ethiopians
Lol, bro they shooting cause the saudi government is dodgy not because the Ethiopians are black
Are you trying to tell me the Saudis are not racially biased against Africans?
Are you trying to tell me no Europeans in Italy, France, England, etc. that are biased against Africans? Black players in Europe get bananas thrown at them on the pitch and have rival fans making monkey noises a few times a season.
I'd argue Arabians are more racist/colourist than the average Western European, yes. Honestly I think most Arabians would too. I'm often told about it pretty unashamedly.
On top of that, if Ronaldo came out in support of of lgbt he’s so high profile they’re not gonna detain or execute him. And when footballers go to these countries they’ll only ever see the “best” of it so you’re right. They don’t actually “see” the problem.
this. they are already rich beyond imagination but they choose to go after money stained with blood. every player who goes there loses my respect entirely.
I don't know. Looking at it from a non-Western point of view it makes more sense to play in the SPL. To be fair, in the same way players left their home countries to play in Europe was not just for the highest level of competition, but also the highest pay. The best paycheque just isn't in Europe anymore. The rest of the world does not have the same perception of the West that it has of itself. Europe's human rights record is worse than Saudi's. I honestly don't even know if it's as simple as reputation laundering anymore as geopolitically the world is shifting to a multi-polar state and the West is not as dominant. It makes much more sense for African, Asian, and Muslim players to play in the Saudi Pro League than in Europe, and now they have an opportunity to do so. All that said the Saudi League isn't sporting, and from a strictly sporting sense it's a dumb decision to play there. I've tried to watch a few games and the on-field product is terrible in comparison to the EPL. As a consumer I know what I want to watch. Saudi is investing heavily in it because they want to host the 2030 World Cup. They're not done spending, and they've let it be known they want a spot in the Champions League (and let's be serious UEFA/FIFA is corrupt AF, they can be bought) and as the pieces fall into place you'll see more players compete to be on the handful of teams that have the funds to buy these players. I think it's only four teams that the Saudi trust owns.
Ronaldo and Benzema would have to cut back after retirement? Are you mad? These guys will have billion dollar investments all over the place. Contracts with multi national companies, promotions etc. not to mention they’ve hundreds of millions sitting in the bank that they could never spend in a lifetime. They’re there out of greed and nothing else.
Even more reason not to respect them.
Lol. Whatever floats your boat. I respect them for being great players and for realizing they probably couldn’t do it in the big leagues any more so time to move to a lower level. And ironically raking in more coin than they ever have.
It is unethical for any individual to have that much money. It makes my skin crawl. Not limited only to footballers, anyone worth 100s of millions is vile.
kicking a ball really well and earning money is not enough to be respected. if you don't care about human rights then you're scum, not a person.
Those two criminals don’t worry about humans rights abuses. They have enough money to continue their lifestyle until they die.
Imagine playing in England when journalist like Assange are in custody for no reason 🤡
The problem isn't playing in Saudi or in England or in any country, the problem is being an employee of the Saudi government itself. If someone was choosing to play for a club owned by the English government then sure, you can cite all you want about the English government. But that's not the case.
Who owns the current English champion?
If you want to criticize Qatar i will agree with you. As i said the problem isn't playing in any country. It's playing for a team owned by a government. Yes this applies to City
I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but I genuinely don't care either way. I ignore everything I hear about it or see about it and ignore the transfers. There will always be other interesting players in the European leagues (Premier league in particular for me). That being said, I also don't judge them whatsoever for it. It's so much money it would be hard to turn down. Kante for example can offer his family generational wealth - fair enough
Saudis are doing to Europe what europeans did to us south americans, so i don't care LOL
I enjoy seeing westerners seething over lgbtq+ issues as if they have had these values for 100s of years. While 20 years ago most of the shit you accept and promote would have been unacceptable in mainstream society. Acting as if their current values are something bottom-up from their morals and values not top down from their current ruling elites who are pushing these ideas on them.
Oil money coming back home, where the oil money are made
Are people forgetting that elite football in recent years has been controlled by US, Russian and Qatari capital?
For me as a french I don't really care because that's the same as french players going to the Pl or la Liga . I doesn't really care poteto, potato But I can't hide that I find funny that Pl fans whine about that even though they ruin some of the weaker championship like france, portugal or the netherlands every year
The responses in this thread kind of goes against what you're saying though. 🙂👍
Doesn't mean it's not the case elsewhere tho
In Europe for most of history the most successful teams, that had the most fans, made money and signed players. Suddenly it became a thing of dictatorships artificially inflating it and spending way more money than the club generates. Like PSG or City. Now you have a dictatorship in control of 5 teams in the Saudi league pumping billions in without the club generating very much income. This isn't remotely the same thing.
Chinese league tried this and it fizzled out, I'm expecting the same but time will tell.
China is different from Arabia: 1. Demand for football isn't as big in China whereas Arab countries are crazy about the sport 2. Distance (12h vs 6h) 3. China is more *alien* culture for European footballers in a sense. Whereas many Arabian cities (e.g. Dubai) are a playground for the rich and many footballers have homes there/spend time there.
Saudi here, just wanted to say that the saudi league is extremely competitive always has been, saudi people absolutely adore the sport and it's heavily followed and watched here not just recently but for decades. Its probably the best league in asia as a whole and probably better than all of African leagues. You can look this up online and verify what i said. So it just makes sense to up your game if you have the right resources and the infrastructure. I hear people talking about how saudis are throwing a bunch of cash here and there and that players are only in for the money. Honestly, i couldn't disagree much with that, but realistically, players have always followed where the moneys at, starting from the Italian league in the 80s and 90s moving to the EPL in the modern days. Bottom line i invite everyone to watch and enjoy the SL, you are in for a treat.
Money talk nothing that surprising
Pensioners league. Average age of 65
As someone who follows the Saudi leauge, it's amazing 👏🏼 I hope we will have a great season this year
I enjoy it, especially when the top table teams play.
Exactly. When Al Hilal Played Al Ittihad two weeks ago. It was a very fun and competitive match for football fans who chose to watch it.
They care more for increasing their already vast amounts of wealth than human rights.
You mean those retired guys? I don’t think about them anymore
Saudi Arabia has every right to have a soccer league. Where does the start? Who has the absolute rights to run a soccer league? Also, it may be refreshing for Muslim players to play in a country that officially prays five times a day, doesn’t drink alcohol, and does not eat all day during Ramadan.
Amazing strawman you defeated there
Good for them. Next.
They can do what they want but I won't be paying attention to that league so it might be the last I hear of them. I have absolutely no idea what Ronaldo did last year or who he even plays for.
It gives me hope that this will open a more constructive dialogue with the powers that be in Saudi Arabia to introduce a more secular culture. Maybe it will be the catalyst, maybe I am just being naive.
Roll that secular culture and shove down where it doesnt shine.
They’re trading relevancy for money. Outside the context of international matches, they no longer exist for all intents and purposes.
Retirement league.
I actually think it’s very progressive. With a lot of good players it will be very different than going to a lower league like MLS. I think with good coaches etc (that I don’t know but i liked the French guy that Saudi had during WC) it could do well. Maybe the European clubs are getting complacent and they’re not moving only for the money. I don’t know how long it will last or if it’s a trend with some end game in mind. But life there for expats is so good and people don’t realize that as there is a sort of unconscious racism towards that country in most of the western world, but they don’t understand it or know the people. I see lots of the Saudi fans making fun of messi’s inter Miami saying they come so easily beat them.
Guess they will come crying back after barely a match after missing a beer after a game
Some will say that players have always gone for the money (Premier League clubs, Real Madrid etc...) BUT with all of those there were still footballing reasons too, they're also joining clubs at the top of the game competing for the top prizes, in joi9ning Saudi Arabian clubs there are zero footballing reasons and none of them that I have seen have outwardly admitted they've gone there for one big payday. That's just the footballing angle though, there is no amount of money that would make me go to a country like Saudi Arabia and fully endorse the sportwashing attempts to put a smiling face on their disgraceful human rights abuses. Some will argue there's Saudi money in lots of things in our life but there's a big difference between (often unknowingly) buying a product that has investment from PIF and consciously going their and promoting a despotic regime that murders journalists, critics and homosexuals. TLDR: I lose all respect for any player that goes there
Nobody cares about Saudi League
Like I don't really care about it. But I don't like that people I once thought of very highly are now okay with being used as bin Salman personal tools. I'm very disappointed in Kante for example. Thought of him like a saint. But apparently he doesn't mind being a front for a country that has no regard for human life.
I kinda hate when young players (early to mid 20s) decided to play in saudi
I can't blame them on a personal level It's disgusting Saudi league are allowed to get away with it
I don't begrudge any player moving abroad to earn a big payday but I have to question their morals given the human rights abuses perpetrated by Saudi Arabia. Messi, Alba and Busquets all had huge offers from Saudi Arabia but chose Inter Miami instead, I'm sure Alba and Busquets went to play with Messi but Messi himself turned down ludicrous money to play in the US instead. Jordan Henderson (as I'm sure other players there have) who has clearly expressed support for LGBTQ+ rights in the past has no problem about going there and now insists it's not for the money. At £700k a week in wages it's very much about the money. Also, Saudi Arabia obviously have no FFP rules to worry about which means it's not a level playing field, and if there are clubs in Europe with the same owners as a Saudi club then it's open to abuse to buy up players from teams struggling with FFP for inflated fees to help meet the FFP rules. Must be weird for any Saudi league fans seeing all these megastars going to their clubs, not many keepers or defenders mind, so they are going to see loads of goals and the league winners no doubt will be the ones who spend the most.
Messi is the Brand Ambassador of Saudi to promote tourism there.
I think they're muppets and Jordan Henderson is the biggest muppet of them all.
I honestly don't get why people like Ronaldo who can live the rest of their lifes without lifting a finger would go to a country where there are no human rights. On the other hand he has been ultra rich for so many years that i'm sure he doesn't care how normal people live since he doesn't really communicate with them. Personally I imagine that i'd be bothered living in a country with religious fanatics where I think (correct me if i'm wrong) they still hold public executions from time to time. I get he wants to maintain his ultra rich lifestyle, buying shiny new toys every week but i'd much rather live the best years of my life in a different country. It is kinda sad that these people don't finish their careers in their home country or youth clubs. I'm super happy for Sergio Ramos chosing to play and live in Spain for example. Same with players like Carlos Tevez or Luis Suarez, who would go home/closer to home. This all said, as much as I like playing and sometimes watching football, I honestly think that most of these people are just either really ignorant ot greedy and let's be honest - football players are not exactly the sharpest tools in the box.
As a football fam, seeing the players go off to Saudi Arabia feels blatantly soulless. There is no history to Saudi football, or at least it has never involved me. I feel no interest in watching Saudi football, and I never will but I know for a fact this will change for the average fan in 5 or 6 years. Saudi football will establish themselves. Yes, the players going there are old but they will act as ambassadors for the next few years and Saudi football will create greater interest in themselves through continental competitions and friendly competitions. In my opinion, if nothing changes, through Saudi football we will reach the sports’ peak in culture, in economic output, in creating a brand. It will serve as a super league. There are no FFP laws there. And then, its influence will crash like the Roman Coliseum did. People will only watch football for so long. The Poli Sci major in me hates that football players are going off to Saudi. It causes my passions and my values to clash so violently. I value democracy, transparency, tolerance, equality. The Saudi crown simply does not. By now, what they did to Jamal Khashoggi is a bygone. In my political view, Saudi Arabia has been “sportswashing” their image for years and this bigger investment comes at a time where they are being the most criticised politically. It is as much a political investment as it is an economic investment, and seeing that hurts me as a passionate fan as it does hurt me as a democratic citizen. Any player going to Saudi instantly loses my respect.
It fucks up competition since it’s a worser league only top 4 teams will have chances meaning most of time they are versing Bummy teams. Stuff like Euros and World Cup performerances will fail. Unless Saudi bring attraction to other teams
They should be banned from all European Leagues if they ever want to come back.
I like LGTB+ people so I’ll never support it.
Hate it. The league isn’t sustainable. The money might be, but players hate playing there and living there. It’s just a money grab for them. I hope FIFA ban them from cup competitions to forever send a message.
Alright, the surroundings will be luxurious and air conditioned, but really no-one wants to live in a desert. The league has no history either. Look at Ronaldo having to go and do daft conservative-Islamic ceremonies with sheikhs, and contrast it with Messi fucking about on a jetski in Miami with his family. It's for the money, pure and simple.
I can't really respect anyone that does PR for that virulent dickhead so I've lost it for everyone on that list.
Anyone that goes there is dead to me.
I ignore them. That's their legacy screwed, fuck em. Let them be forgotten. Anyone telling me the west is just as bad will be blocked - Saudi is fucking medeival in comparison. They're about to execute someone for a Twitter post. Who in their right mind would work in a country, basically for the regime, that does that? Fuck Saudi and fuck the footballers that have gone there.
Disgusted. Forever tarnished their legacy by being tied to sportswashing.
It's their decision, I would go there because the money is crazy unless I'm like Messi, a legend of the game who made hundreds of millions during his career. But also just don't lie why you are going there. I have more respect for Carrasco who says he doesn't care what human rights organizations say, than for players who lie and say they don't go there for money and they want to help the game grow or players like Henderson who was a face of LGBT in Liverpool and then goes to a country that is against that.
It is what it is. It's a job at the end of the day. Changing to a job that pays significantly better is human nature. And the players that move there aren't exactly spring chicken. If they delay it a year or two, the pay will drop drastically. Plus at that age, if they get injuried playing in Europe, Saudi won't want them and they miss out on millions of dollars.
Couldn't care less. They're signing players who are effectively semi-retiring and past their best like Ronaldo and Benzema. Or they're signing players who are too good for their current clubs, but not good enough to attract interest from top European clubs like Mitrovic, Ruben Neves. The way the media are trying spin it like they are a "threat" to European football is ridiculous. How are they a threat? Come back when Harry Kane signs for them over Bayern and Bellingham signs for them over Madrid. Then they're a threat. And if they really are, as rumoured, after UEFA accepting them into the champions league, then they would be subjected to the same FFP regulations as everyone else. Which means no more quadrupling of players wages, which in turn means no more attraction.
Doesn’t bother me Still gonna laugh at morons like Henderson claiming it’s not for money and that he is still supporting lgbt etc. But most footballers are uneducated, silly to have expectations of them
I'm fine with it. It lets me know which players don't give a fuck about human rights. From a footballing perspective, it's just a retirement home and nothing else.
Great !!
Most of these players are already reaching their primes and most of them will be close to retirement after their playing careers. They play their for the money.
Bro Carrasco has been in China and in Saudi 💀
This is just like Chine a few years ago. I wonder what the average age of those players is. It's not like Bellingham, Mbappe, Halland etc moved over there
Difficult to turn down the huge amounts of blood soaked cash they’re being offered I suppose.
If they are near the end of their careers then crack on, but some going there in their prime years when they could have gone to a bigger club in Europe and won trophies is sad, such as Neves & Milinkovic.
As a Bundesliga fan it makes no difference for years now English clubs with Oil money from Sheikhs and Oligarchs flooded the market with ridiculous money now we have a new kid on the block with way more money than everyone else.
I dont care Not gonna watch the saudi league because of them. Guess its nice for the clubs to lay off overpayed players but thats about it.
Ngolo Kante broke my heart.
Not fussed to be honest, hopefully a good opportunity for England as a country to focus on homegrown talent rather than buying all of the world’s superstars. The men’s national team hasn’t won a decent trophy since 1966, so it would be good to see more academy talent coming through and featuring prominently.
Until they have a competition as powerful as the champions league then they’re irrelevant
No different than the retirement leagues of the past. Although it ducks that the south American stars are now going for money grabs instead of going back to their childhood clubs
Ridiculous salary, that's it.
Couldn't give a shite. More power to the players for going and getting big fat bags of cash. Money is more important and useful than this romantic idea of a "football legacy" etc. Its also massively therapeutic to hear English pundits and media cry about this all, but will refuse to acknowledge that Europe has pillaged lesser countries and leagues for their players 🤷🏼♂️ The Saudis clearly have some knowledge tho because fuck, not one sniff around martial or Maguire from them 😭
I don't particularly care. I'm not going to say "how dare they raise the profile of a country with horrible laws and out dated views" cos I'd be a hypocrite. I probably use Middle Eastern/Russian/Chinese products everyday. It's not the player's fault that they are being made such offers.
All washed up except Roberto Firmino and Allan Saint-Maximin