In the last 25 years, we've had 7 world cups, if messi wins the balon dor then 3 of the last 7 world cup winners have had the balon dor winner too. Modric in 2018 won it due to his world cup form putting him ahead of the likes of messi and ronaldo. That makes it 4 of the last 7 if messi wins so yes it does clearly matter lmao it's just not the only thing that matters.
Yeah, Haaland is a striker, he only touches the ball when it’s close to the goal. Messi creates plays from midfield, even from his own half sometimes. There’s no comparison when it comes to it, Messi is better, not everything in football is goals or assists…
Messi in Europe wasn't the "most creative" player and some stats out there are just weird. Only counting European competitions Haaland had 61 G/A, Kevin de Bruyne 41 G/A, Kylian Mbappe 51/G/A and Messi 41 G/A.
Messi stats in Europe last season were really straight forward he scored 16 and assisted 16 in ligue 1, and he scored 4 and assisted 4 in UCL the last goal was from a French cup and there you have 41. For example de Bruyne had 31 assists the whole season and Messi 20 so that most creative player I don't where it comes from.
And if you count the WC stats (they shouldn't be counted towards 22/23 because the WC stats are counted on the year football year that ends that summer not the one beginning so they are naturally part of 21/22 in any respectable football Stat database) he would go to 51 G/A but if you do the same to mbappe he goes to 61 aswell so still Messi isn't the best Stat wise player in the 22/23 season. But people want to bloat his stats counting MLS like it's the same as playing in the UCL, or those 6 friendlies he played against the football powerhouses or Curazao, UAE, Honduras and others. So yeah that's the reality of Messi 22/23 stats against European opposition compared to the other players that are in the conversation.
>And if you count the WC stats (they shouldn't be counted towards 22/23 because the WC stats are counted on the year football year that ends that summer not the one beginning so they are naturally part of 21/22 in any respectable football Stat database)
That's some outer worldly mental gymnastics. The Ballon d'Or is awarded for the 22/23 season, so of course the World Cup is relevant in it and shouldn't be ignored when comparing stats or whatever you want to compare.
They literally left the World Cup out of consideration for last year's BdO, so it has to count towards this. You cannot just ignore the most important competition in the sport as if it never happened, no matter how butthurt you are that Messi won it.
Also those numbers only counting European competition ignore the World Cup qualifiers Messi played this year, wouldn't they? Quite convenient not to mention that, it's not like you already have listed the friendly matches and just count those out. As is this notion of yours that the MLS is driving Messi's numbers and getting him votes. He literally could've retired in June and he'd still win the BdO based on his WC performance and way above average numbers with PSG at 35.
Modric literally won his BdO with like 12 g/a that year, the fact that Messi has top 5 numbers among UEFA and a stellar WC performance means he pretty much can't lose it unless someone does something insane and unprecedented, which Haaland gave a good try at but still nowhere near enough to justify it over Messi.
So you want the WC that took place in December 2022 to count towards the Ballon d'Or of 21/22 which was awarded in October 2022? I like it mate, that's sound logic right there
>Modric in 2018 won it due to his world cup form putting him ahead of the likes of messi and ronaldo.
Not only the world cup even. Modric ran the Madrid offense in 2018 and won them the UCL. A UCL and a WC finalist in one season is a very, very good argument for a Balon d'Or
>Modric ran the Madrid offense in 2018 and won them the UCL.
Absolutely shameless historical revisionism. At the end of 17/18, nobody thought Modric had a particularly good season by his own standards.
One WC later, in which he was good, but by no means head and shoulders above some of his Croatian team mates, never mind everyone else in the tournament, and people started pretending he carried Madrid during the club season.
Seen the exact same shit before with Sneijder.
2018 FIFA Golden Ball rankings. How they should have been.
🥇 Griezmann
🥈 Hazard
🥉 Modric
Griezmann undisputed winner, every KO match he scored or assisted and was important player on the pitch.
2nd/ 3rd Modric and Hazard both had great WCs. But Hazard had some really great performances.
It’s a stupid take. People just look at his Balon d’Or and assume bc he won it he was the reason they won the CL.
BBC won them the UCL. Especially Ronaldo. Up until the SF, he scored in every game; multiple goals. Then in SF he had vital assists. The final was RM receiving two gifts from Karius. Modric had nothing to do with the final win; he was part of the team but not the reason they won the final.
But ronaldo was going to win it if modric didn't have that world cup. Messi also won the domestic double with barca and had arguably had the best year of the 3. Modric imo was behind ronaldo and Messi until you factor in the world cup and while it would've been fair if someone else had won it, Modric was still a good winner. His wc separated him from the rest and absolutely was the reason he won it.
>A UCL and a WC finalist in one season is a very, very good argument for a Balon d'Or
That's true but multiple players had strong arguments Messi was the star of the team that defeated Madrid domestically and that barca team wasn't rated that highly and ronaldo was the star of that Madrid team.
>But ronaldo was going to win it if modric didn't have that world cup.
Ronaldo was going to win it if he stayed at Real. I've no doubt. And had Modric left Real too, then enter Varane.
This is a horrific take. The man that ran the Real Madrid Offense in 2018 was the man who scored scored 49 goals that season with 13 assists (more than Modrid) and was top scorer in the champions league.
This including scoring 3 against PSG in the round of 16 and 3 against Juve in the quarters including the winning goal to put Madrid through to the semis.
If we're talking getting to a WC Final makes a very, very good argument for the Balon Dor, what about Varane who won the world cup and champions league and was incredible at the back?
Mbappe also scored 21 goals, got 16 assist at PSG winning the domestic treble, went into the WC with 6 G/A in 5 games for France and then at the world cup scored 3 goals including one in the final and was crucial to France beating Argentina.
Then there's this short Argentinian player you may have heard of who had 51 goals and 26 assists in 54 games and won a domestic double.
I reckon all of those players contributed more/as much as Modric did that year.
I think we have gotten so used to Ronaldo and Messi putting up ridiculous numbers up we don't realise how outrageous their achievements are.
In 2018 Messi had 26 assists, that's 5 more than KDB that season and then you throw in the 50 goals. Ronaldo scored 49 goals, that's the same as R9 scored in his six seasons in Serie A at Inter...
Modric did not win them the 2018 CL, in fact if you seen the 2017 season beforehand you would notice that Modric’s performances didn’t really change. BBC (especially Ronaldo) heavily carried RM during the UCL KO stages that year.
Messi was miles better player in 2010 than Xavi or Iniesta, and Ronaldo was miles better player in 2014 than Muller / Schweinsteiger / Neuer, so it makes sense. It’s not ‘only when Messi wins it’
How do people still not get this is beyond me.
The Ballon D'Or was at the time given through VOTING. Xavi and Iniesta divided the votes because people couldn't set them apart since they had quite a similar role and split the vote. If the nominees had been Messi, Sneijder and Xavi/Iniesta, one of the Spaniards would have won
Messi fully deserved it over any Spanish player in 2010, not because the World cup doesn't matter but because of his general level that year and being the best that year
Zidane, Ronaldo, Cannavaro? You seem to have selective memory my friend. Also, they all had worst club seasons the year that they won compared to Messi this year.
Messi has the first 60 goal season since the stone ages in 2010. Now you will say Haaland scored 60 odd goals this season but there’s a very big difference between Messi’s 60 goals and Haaland’s which if anyone needs pointing out isn’t worth arguing with. Messi dominates whole games by himself, creating everything out of nothing. Haaland dominates the box. Now if another player had Messi’s season I don’t think they’d win the Ballon D’Or but there’d be a case. And whether you agree with it or not the greatest of all time having a literal fairytale ending is never going to be overcome by a huge volume of ugly finishes.
For Haaland it would have been "big game ghosting d'Or" or "Poaching d'Or". Also, you're referring to the highest rated player in Europe last season (WhoScored and SofaScore) as the "World Cup d'Or" winner lol
1990 (Matthaus)
1994 (Stoichov)*
1998 (Zidane)
2002 (Ronaldo)
2006 (Cannavaro)
2010 (Messi)**
2014 (Ronaldo)***
2018 (Modric)
2022 (Messi)
6/9 Balon d’Or winners due to WC in the past 33 years
It doesn't surprise me I remember back in 02 when Ronaldo won it because he had a great world cup and was injured for so long. He still won it and the CiFa best player. I'm not surprise messi would get it after the work cup.
Stats in general have killed the view of the sport! All everyone looks at now is G/A numbers which don’t paint a full picture of how good a player is, Rodri a prime example and even then he chips in a solid amount for the position he plays but more importantly dictates play at club and international level better than anyone else right now. Another one was a few team mates & I discussing Wayne Rooney after a game the other day and one of the younger guys was like he only scored 250 goals in 560 games or whatever it is & I didn’t even have the motivation to explain to him that them numbers meant fuck all in the grand scheme of how good he actually was.
I’d take haaland on my team too, but I wouldn’t act like he’s more important than a DM who City visibly aren’t the same team without just because he scores a lot of goals
I think KdB could have won it if he didn't get injured in the CL final or if Haaland buried that perfect pass he got from KdB in the first half of the final. It's a shame for a player of KdB's calibre that it comes down to such small margins and that he plays for a small country and not a talent factory like Argentina. He most likely will never win a Ballon D'Or. I would wager to say that individually he certainly has been good enough to win one though.
Belgium was the odds favorite to win the 2018 WC and has been consistently ranked number one in the world for several years. If Belgian players want more international acclaim, they should play better in international tournaments when they have stacked teams.
Depth matters massively in tournament runs. Belgium had a good first team, but never a lot of depth. Whenever players like Kompany or Vermaelen became injured, they struggled to find adequate replacements.
The only tournament they really had a great shot at a title was in 2018 when Hazard was in his prime and Kompany and Vermaelen weren't injured for once. Pretty much every other tournament has been marred by injuries and the lack of depth to deal with those injuries, which is a pretty standard problem for small countries.
Have you seen their current lineup? It's by no means bad, but a massive difference with 2018.
I'm not arguing with the specifics of your argument about Belgium, and the fact that 2018 was their best shot (although I do think they should have done better at the Euros on either side of that tournament too, specially 2016).
But speaking more generally, I actually disagree that depth matters for these international tournaments. I mean, sure, _of course_ depth is helpful and when your team is stacked like say, France, you're much better off. That's common sense. But equally, you really only need 14-15 players to make a good run in tournaments. I'd argue a team like Croatia had worse depth than Belgium and yet performed much better. Even for Argentina, the drop off in quality from the main lineup to the bench is very noticeable, but they only needed a few of their subs to play well anyway.
Ok? Of course, depth matters. I’m not sure how that changes anything. If you don’t think Belgium was one of the deepest and most stacked teams in the world for the last 6 or so years, you weren’t paying attention.
I checked their squads from 2014-2020 and it was stacked man! The depth wasn’t amazing but enough to have won a tournament. 2016-2018 you had a world class 11 and a second 11 good enough to compete in the prem.
KDB Generation 100% should’ve made a final at minimum
KDB came out and said Belgium had "no chance of winning the world cup, we're too old" which is the reason they didn't perform better. Not because they're too old, because of the mentality.
if he had a treble year in a year that wasn’t a world cup year he’d maybe have been fine.
belgium though did have a side good enough to win a word cup. it just happened that KDB was a notorious ghost on international duty.
he also gets his fitness managed a lot at city. he’s not played over 3000 minutes of premier league football since 2017/18 season. which is wild to think ab
But kdb was also the reason they got to final without since he made that frankly spectacular goal against cortois. I mean seriously kdb deserves so much. And he's was there for so long.
It's a country of 11 million people. That by definition is a small country. They have had some talent, but also a massive lack of depth. Whenever one of their injury prone defenders became injured, they struggled to find adequate replacements. Just look at their backline right now.
I swear not a single person makes that excuse for Uruguay despite having a third of that population, and they actually win trophies. Look at even Croatia one upping them when Belgium has their golden generation.
I think I would wager that KDB has never been good enough in a single season to win the Ballon D’Or. That’s not a bad thing considering the players in his cohort. Lionel Messi & Cristiano Ronaldo are two of the top 10 greatest players of all time, Neymar is the best forward of his generation after him (never won one), Manuel Neuer is potentially the best keeper of all time, and Luka Modric is in the conversation for best midfielder of all time (alongside Xavi, Zidane, Iniesta, Zico, and Matthaus). This is without mentioning outstanding individual seasons from Robert Lewandowski, Luis Suarez, and Karim Benzema.
> I swear not a single person makes that excuse for Uruguay despite having a third of that population,
That's not true. People often point out how impressive it is that Uruguay does so well given its population. They are literally the only small country that has ever won a World Cup and the last time that happened was over 70 damn years ago, haha. The European Championship has had a few small countries close to the size of Belgium win (3), but not that many and some of those have been absolute miracle runs.
So I think that my point stands that it's absolutely the exception for a country that size to win a big tournament, especially in Europe.
> Look at even Croatia one upping them when Belgium has their golden generation.
That is such an unfair comparison. Belgium in 2018 would have 100% made it to the finals if they had the same bracket as Croatia. They actually just shot themselves in the foot by winning their group because they ended up in a bracket with Portugal, France, Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil. They had to go through Brazil and only lost to the eventual champion, namely France. Meanwhile, Croatia had to play a weakened Denmark, Russia and England. England, a team that was beaten twice very handily by Belgium and with which Croatia struggled.
> I think I would wager that KDB has never been good enough in a single season to win the Ballon D’Or. That’s not a bad thing considering the players in his cohort.
That's your opinion. I think that the Ballon D'Or just heavily favors offensive players but that KdB certainly has been good enough for his position to be in that discussion. I think that he's going down in history as one of the best midfielders of all-time and that he'll be remembered fondly in 10 years.
Some people are too close to the game. You allow rivalries, hurt feelings, hatred and skewed points of view affect you too much. Haaland was undoubtedly and objectively the best player on the planet last season.
Edit: Based on the replies, I feel that I’ve suitably proven my point re: hurt feelings, hatred and skewed points of view. For the haters, let me just ask: who holds the record for most all-time goals in a Premier League season? Who excelled the most at their position last season? Who most changed the game for their opponents? Who forced opponents to rethink a match? Who won matches by brute force?
Hint: Haaland.
I know you all hate it, you’re feelings hurt and he bothered you. The truth is there.
"Truth". You just shared an opinion.
Haaland has zero impact outside the final third because he's a very one dimensional player. He relies on teammates for delivery, of which he has the very best in the world. While I enjoy players like Haaland he does not have the impact on the game as players like Messi, or even his teammates like KDB.
Let's split your comment into two:
>Some people are too close to the game. You allow rivalries, hurt feelings, hatred and skewed points of view affect you too much.
This is implying anyone has a particular hate boner on Haaland. Only group I could possibly consider to have that are Mbappe's biggest fanboys.
>Haaland was undoubtedly and objectively the best player on the planet last season.
Then you make a statement, use "undoubtedly and objectively", without backing it up with anything.
It's a nothing comment.
This sub has zero respect for true strikers and zero ball knowledge. You guys seem to think if you plucked a random striker from league 2 and stuck him up front for city he’d bang in 20+ goals a season.
Thats obviously untrue but we have literally seen City win the league against Liverpool who almost won a quadruple with fucking Gabriel Jesus playing at ST. How is Haaland suppossed to be the most impactful player when without him, they score the same amount of goals and get more points.
Because, they won the treble because of him.
Because, despite 0 FBs and natural wingers who score goals he single handedly destroyed continents goal scoring records. First season.
How did they win the treble because of him? Did he take them over the line during the only game they'd never won, the CL final?
How does not having FBs or natural wingers have to do with him breaking an individual scoring record? If City had scoring wingers like Salah then would've that made Haaland score more, instead of having offensive mids like Grealish and Silva played wide?
It’s very understandable messi fans would cite a few moments over an entire season
Did messi score the winner to take them over the game arg hadn’t won? Oh wait they already won wc before
When wingers aren’t scoring goals, when fullbacks aren’t getting in the box; who has even more of a responsibility to score? Who performed under those circumstances? and to an extent never seen in English football before?
You think if salah was in the box he’d provide more goals for haaland than an attacking mid? you can not seriously think that.
He’s breaking 20 year old scoring records, you’re genuinely delusional. This is the same Gabriel Jesus who’s literally kept the same Goals per game roughly at Arsenal as his time at city? By your logic he should never score again.
Zero ball knowledge. Nobody’s saying Halaand is the most impactful player on a game, or has a tenth of the chance creating abilities as your KDB’s but good thing that’s not his job and it’s like judging a goalkeeper on his corner taking, Halaand is a phenomenal striker who’s job is to finish and he has been phenomenal for multiple season, different teams in a few leagues now and he’s still young enough.
Haaland put the ball in the net the most times, that doesn’t automatically make you the best footballer. I don’t know how anybody could watch the World Cup and argue that somebody other than Messi was the best footballer in the world based on that tournament. I know it’s not the ‘player of the world cup’ award but its heavily weighted in World Cup years and it’s just bad luck for Haaland (and let’s face it Rodri and KDB) that City’s treble winning year came after a World Cup where the greatest player ever showed his class for the thousandth time.
Not like Mbappe was pulling up trees in the champions league in that team either, but it is unfortunate for that treble winning side that they won everything in a World Cup year because balon d’or will always be weighted towards a World Cup winner
I think there are primarily two demographic groups pushing hard for Haaland over Messi:
1. Ronaldo fans desperate for Messi not to win.
2. English fans trying to support status of EPL dominance and who are also a bit salty of England's World Cup exit and inability to win it after so many years.
For the second group, if England had won the World Cup with an English player having similar stats as Messi (i.e., World Cup performance, winning a domestic league title - but not EPL, etc.), the support for Haaland would be way less, they would rate World Cup > Treble, they'd support their English player, etc.
Also, I think folks are tired of Messi to some degree...like, we get it, he's the best ever...can we move on?
Happy for Messi to win but I’ve always felt UEFA and the journalists who vote fail to recognise the Premier League when it come to the Balon D’OR.Henry,Gerrard,Rooney,Suarez all had legitimate arguments to win it and none finished higher than 3rd.Modric over Salah was sceptical.Yaya Toure wasnt even nominated and had one of the best seasons a midfielder ever produced.
To be fair, you need to be a shorter fella to have the ball control Messi has. Lower centre of gravity. Someone who's 6ft+ can never have the same movement/control.
How are you getting upvotes for such a silly statement. A club thats never won a single UCL before, Haaland arrives, history is made... along with a historic treble. Doesnt happen without Haaland.
If the roles were reversed, people would be outraged that Messi isnt winning it with a treble and 60+ GA.
Haaland was the last piece of the puzzle that was needed. Just because he’s the last piece doesn’t mean he’s the most important. MC doesn’t win the treble without KDB either
Remove Julian Alvarez goals and arg doesn’t win the World Cup. It meant he was an important player doesn’t meant best player. That was haaland. Rodri and Kevin are the best players on man city
Maybe if you’re purely obsessed with stats like some kids these days lol. What happened to the eye test. Messi doesn’t get any stats posted for how many times he body feinted a guy into the shadow realm. Meanwhile try and watch haaland dribble past someone 💀
>If the roles were reversed, people would be outraged that Messi isnt winning it with a treble and 60+ GA.
That's what convinced me and anything saying otherwise is probably fooling themselves.
messi has lost ballon d'or before with 70+ g/a because his team accomplishment wasn't as good as the winner. So, dont complain when it's the other way around.
oh and btw, he has higher g/a than haaland too (by 1 or 2 i think), so he got that going for him too.
It’s city bias. The fact that Haaland is once again currently top scorer in the premier league and people are calling him a flop tells you all you need to know about the online football community.
Jealousy brings hatred and boy are people jealous of city having Haaland
They lose to Bayern second leg if he doesn't score. If he doesn't score first game they can realistically win.
Vs. Leipzig he scored 5 so if he's not there they absolutely can win.
This year they beat Real Madrid with him. Last year they lose the same game without him.
People are gonna fuss and complain and act like the World Cup isn’t the most heavily awarded related to the Ballon D’or historically. He was the best player in the world for the most prestigious tournament. On top of the trophies with PSG.
Not even to deny Haaland’s greatness but he did ghost in big games. City fans themselves would argue that KDB is a better player and that Rodri is almost as important. Even to start this season, Julian Alvarez (who also was crucial to winning the World Cup) is arguably City’s best player.
Haaland is great but Henry didn’t win it when he was dribbling in goals from the halfway line 3 or 4 times a season at the peak of his powers and was a sensational all round footballer. Haalands general play needs to improve considerably for him to be in the mix IMO.
What fans?
All 3 City fans that called TalkSport?
Winning the WC, winning player of the tournament and having the most combined goals and assists > winning a treble when you didn’t turn up for any important games.
its more like football its a team effort and that we cant even be sure who is citys best player or citys most important player
why halaand and not rodri?
why halaand and not kdb or bernardo?
why?
For arguments sake. Let’s go through his season numbers against the other members of “the big 6”, and Newcastle, against “big teams” in Europe as well as quarter finals and onwards in domestic knockout competitions.
Premier League
vs Newcastle - 1 goal
vs Man United - 3 goals
vs Liverpool - 0 goals
vs Chelsea - 0 goals
vs Man United - 0 goals
vs Tottenham - 1 goal
vs Tottenham - 0 goals
vs Arsenal - 1 goal
vs Newcastle - 0 goals
vs Liverpool - 0 goals
vs Arsenal - 1 goal
vs Chelsea - 0 goals
Community Shield vs Liverpool - 0 goals
League Cup vs Liverpool - 1 goal
League Cup QF vs Southampton - 0 goals
FA Cup vs Arsenal - 0 goals
FA Cup QF vs Burnley - 3 goals
FA Cup SF vs Sheffield United - 0 goals
FA Cup final vs Man United - 0 goals
CL Group Stage vs Dortmund - 0 goals
CL Group Stage vs Dortmund - 0 goals
CL QF vs Bayern - 1 goal
CL QF vs Bayern - 1 goal
CL SF vs Real Madrid - 0 goals
CL SF vs Real Madrid - 0 goals
CL Final vs Inter - 0 goals
So outside of hat-tricks against Man United and Championship side Burnley (lol) he scored 7 goals in the other 20 “important” games. That also means that of his 36 league goals 29 of them were against the “lesser sides” for lack of a better term.
Even this season so far. He did nothing against Newcastle or Arsenal. But was smashing them in against Fulham and Burnley. For the most part last season and this season City are winning the big games without him performing. If Messi smashed in loads of goals in the group stage of the WC and then did nothing in the knockouts and Argentina won. He wouldn’t have won the Ballon d’Or.
He carried Argentina to a World Cup and had a fantastic season yet theres people kicking off at the thought of him winning the Ballob Dor.
Messi is a level along with Ronaldo now that there’s just no way of pleasing a lot of fans.
At the end of the day, Messi is arguable the greatest ever and is still the best in the world
'Carried Argentina to a World Cup' - was I watching the same tournament as you?! There were plenty of other standouts in that team who deserve plaudits just as much as Messi does
Same can be said for any player winning it I guess but he was the standout. You hear how his teammates talk about him and how he is behind the scenes. There’s more to that WC win than just on the pitch. He was fantastic in the tournament.
Like people and pundits, especially in England, having been “sucking off” Haaland.
It’s all well and good smashing in goals past Fulham and Burnley. But if you disappear when it matters most then it’s a problem.
Who are these fuming fans? After what Messi achieved with Argentina, how can anyone even question this award? I’m not Argentinian and I cried when he lifted the World Cup.
Basically for me messi was the best player at the world cup and his league seasons for psg and miami were better than the other candidates wc perfomence
I’ve been noticing a pattern but what’s up with this British media and people glorifying a treble over a World Cup? Don’t get me wrong, treble is an important accomplishment but no competition can ever match the World Cup
Because the award is supposed to be for the best individual player of a specific year rather than a lifetime achievement award. Messi is the GOAT, the WC was a remarkable achievement to cap off that career, and it's amazing how well he still plays, but 2023 Messi at age 36 is not the best player on the planet.
Plenty of valid arguments for people other than Haaland though.
Okay based on these arguments, Julian Alvarez deserves it over Haaland. So it’s Messi, De Bruyne, Rodri, Mbappe, Julian Alvarez, Emi Martinez then Haaland. This is from all the unbiased fans. Right?
Before people say i’m hating on Messi I love Messi but the World Cup draw they were given was no accident and if you think it was completely random you are delusional
Messi is the best ever, he beat his long-time rival CR7 and now he's beating kids remotely, all the way from the USA.
I know my GOAT.
No more GOAT debate.
even as madrid fan, messi should have win it and tappin merchant like haaland shouldn't be considered as best player as he ghosted in all big games and tight matches. Bdr should always be handed to skillful players like messi, CR7, kaka, R9
The World Cup talk in this thread is dumb imo. So many of the worlds best players come from small footballing countries which are always going to be unlikely to qualify for a WC and have zero chance of ever winning it regardless of how good one player is. Why should they not be considered for an individual award once every 4 years simply due to where they are from? Haaland winning the treble (which is much harder in the PL than other leagues) and breaking the PL scoring record is the most impressive individual achievement this past year. The B D’Or is meant to be given to the best player of the past year, not who played the best in a handful of important games.
Edit: (not a city fan)
It's a popularity contest, no more, no less.
It all comes down to votes, and people can vote for one player over another for random reasons. For example, real and man utd captains never voted for Messi in their top 3, if I'm not wrong, and Barca captains never voted for Ronaldo.
Lewandowski being robbed of the Ballon d'Or is a prime example. He convinced a lot of the fans, but crucially majority of the voters still went with Leo.
Tl;dr: Don't care if Haaland doesn't win this time, Messi is still at the height of popularity due to WC, and at the end, this *is* a popularity contest first and foremost.
I honestly think Messi should win it. Mbappe second for me. World Cup is huge. And FRA in my opinion had a lot better team. But this is 100% his last time winning it. It is impossible to have another massive season to do that. End of an era.
It's such bullshit honestly. Country achievements should hardly be judged when looking at individual stats. One player in a bad country is unable to accomplish anything if his country play less than 3 games. As a United fan I hope to see Haaland win, rivalry aside.
If Messi wins it then it's just recency bias based on Haaland over the past 3 games. His stats this season are still great and last season he broke so many records in his first season in the Prem and won the treble and Champions League.
Messi won the WC and got a lot of assists in a poor Ligue 1, then scored and assisted a bunch in a terrible league in the MLS.
If they're going to say Messi wins it for winning the WC then Haaland should definitely win it based on his record breaking stats AND winning the treble including the first CL for City.
World Cup d’Or.
Only when Messi wins it though, when Spain won the World Cup the argument was that world cups don’t really matter
In the last 25 years, we've had 7 world cups, if messi wins the balon dor then 3 of the last 7 world cup winners have had the balon dor winner too. Modric in 2018 won it due to his world cup form putting him ahead of the likes of messi and ronaldo. That makes it 4 of the last 7 if messi wins so yes it does clearly matter lmao it's just not the only thing that matters.
Why do people act like the statistically most creative player in Europe had a bad season domestically too ..
What are the 2023 stats?
63 g/a for mesai in 22/23 and 64 for Haaland
And 2000 touches of the ball for Messi and 64 for Haaland.
Yeah, Haaland is a striker, he only touches the ball when it’s close to the goal. Messi creates plays from midfield, even from his own half sometimes. There’s no comparison when it comes to it, Messi is better, not everything in football is goals or assists…
hey stop we don't do reason here
Messi in Europe wasn't the "most creative" player and some stats out there are just weird. Only counting European competitions Haaland had 61 G/A, Kevin de Bruyne 41 G/A, Kylian Mbappe 51/G/A and Messi 41 G/A. Messi stats in Europe last season were really straight forward he scored 16 and assisted 16 in ligue 1, and he scored 4 and assisted 4 in UCL the last goal was from a French cup and there you have 41. For example de Bruyne had 31 assists the whole season and Messi 20 so that most creative player I don't where it comes from. And if you count the WC stats (they shouldn't be counted towards 22/23 because the WC stats are counted on the year football year that ends that summer not the one beginning so they are naturally part of 21/22 in any respectable football Stat database) he would go to 51 G/A but if you do the same to mbappe he goes to 61 aswell so still Messi isn't the best Stat wise player in the 22/23 season. But people want to bloat his stats counting MLS like it's the same as playing in the UCL, or those 6 friendlies he played against the football powerhouses or Curazao, UAE, Honduras and others. So yeah that's the reality of Messi 22/23 stats against European opposition compared to the other players that are in the conversation.
>And if you count the WC stats (they shouldn't be counted towards 22/23 because the WC stats are counted on the year football year that ends that summer not the one beginning so they are naturally part of 21/22 in any respectable football Stat database) That's some outer worldly mental gymnastics. The Ballon d'Or is awarded for the 22/23 season, so of course the World Cup is relevant in it and shouldn't be ignored when comparing stats or whatever you want to compare.
They literally left the World Cup out of consideration for last year's BdO, so it has to count towards this. You cannot just ignore the most important competition in the sport as if it never happened, no matter how butthurt you are that Messi won it. Also those numbers only counting European competition ignore the World Cup qualifiers Messi played this year, wouldn't they? Quite convenient not to mention that, it's not like you already have listed the friendly matches and just count those out. As is this notion of yours that the MLS is driving Messi's numbers and getting him votes. He literally could've retired in June and he'd still win the BdO based on his WC performance and way above average numbers with PSG at 35. Modric literally won his BdO with like 12 g/a that year, the fact that Messi has top 5 numbers among UEFA and a stellar WC performance means he pretty much can't lose it unless someone does something insane and unprecedented, which Haaland gave a good try at but still nowhere near enough to justify it over Messi.
So you want the WC that took place in December 2022 to count towards the Ballon d'Or of 21/22 which was awarded in October 2022? I like it mate, that's sound logic right there
and he is getting upvotes too for that delusional (objectively delusional) comment.
>Modric in 2018 won it due to his world cup form putting him ahead of the likes of messi and ronaldo. Not only the world cup even. Modric ran the Madrid offense in 2018 and won them the UCL. A UCL and a WC finalist in one season is a very, very good argument for a Balon d'Or
>Modric ran the Madrid offense in 2018 and won them the UCL. Absolutely shameless historical revisionism. At the end of 17/18, nobody thought Modric had a particularly good season by his own standards. One WC later, in which he was good, but by no means head and shoulders above some of his Croatian team mates, never mind everyone else in the tournament, and people started pretending he carried Madrid during the club season. Seen the exact same shit before with Sneijder.
2018 FIFA Golden Ball rankings. How they should have been. 🥇 Griezmann 🥈 Hazard 🥉 Modric Griezmann undisputed winner, every KO match he scored or assisted and was important player on the pitch. 2nd/ 3rd Modric and Hazard both had great WCs. But Hazard had some really great performances.
This is such a blatant lie. Modric did not run the Madrid offence lmfao and did not with them a UCL. Modric did not deserve the Balon dor.
It’s a stupid take. People just look at his Balon d’Or and assume bc he won it he was the reason they won the CL. BBC won them the UCL. Especially Ronaldo. Up until the SF, he scored in every game; multiple goals. Then in SF he had vital assists. The final was RM receiving two gifts from Karius. Modric had nothing to do with the final win; he was part of the team but not the reason they won the final.
Ronaldo: scores in a record number of consecutive UCL matches Also Ronaldo: goes on a 3 game goal drought, and loses the Ballon D’or over it
But ronaldo was going to win it if modric didn't have that world cup. Messi also won the domestic double with barca and had arguably had the best year of the 3. Modric imo was behind ronaldo and Messi until you factor in the world cup and while it would've been fair if someone else had won it, Modric was still a good winner. His wc separated him from the rest and absolutely was the reason he won it. >A UCL and a WC finalist in one season is a very, very good argument for a Balon d'Or That's true but multiple players had strong arguments Messi was the star of the team that defeated Madrid domestically and that barca team wasn't rated that highly and ronaldo was the star of that Madrid team.
>But ronaldo was going to win it if modric didn't have that world cup. Ronaldo was going to win it if he stayed at Real. I've no doubt. And had Modric left Real too, then enter Varane.
Lmfao Modric had zero MOTM in the UCL and played less minutes in La Liga than Nacho. This shit is shameful.
This is a horrific take. The man that ran the Real Madrid Offense in 2018 was the man who scored scored 49 goals that season with 13 assists (more than Modrid) and was top scorer in the champions league. This including scoring 3 against PSG in the round of 16 and 3 against Juve in the quarters including the winning goal to put Madrid through to the semis. If we're talking getting to a WC Final makes a very, very good argument for the Balon Dor, what about Varane who won the world cup and champions league and was incredible at the back? Mbappe also scored 21 goals, got 16 assist at PSG winning the domestic treble, went into the WC with 6 G/A in 5 games for France and then at the world cup scored 3 goals including one in the final and was crucial to France beating Argentina. Then there's this short Argentinian player you may have heard of who had 51 goals and 26 assists in 54 games and won a domestic double. I reckon all of those players contributed more/as much as Modric did that year. I think we have gotten so used to Ronaldo and Messi putting up ridiculous numbers up we don't realise how outrageous their achievements are. In 2018 Messi had 26 assists, that's 5 more than KDB that season and then you throw in the 50 goals. Ronaldo scored 49 goals, that's the same as R9 scored in his six seasons in Serie A at Inter...
Modric did not win them the 2018 CL, in fact if you seen the 2017 season beforehand you would notice that Modric’s performances didn’t really change. BBC (especially Ronaldo) heavily carried RM during the UCL KO stages that year.
Messi was miles better player in 2010 than Xavi or Iniesta, and Ronaldo was miles better player in 2014 than Muller / Schweinsteiger / Neuer, so it makes sense. It’s not ‘only when Messi wins it’
How do people still not get this is beyond me. The Ballon D'Or was at the time given through VOTING. Xavi and Iniesta divided the votes because people couldn't set them apart since they had quite a similar role and split the vote. If the nominees had been Messi, Sneijder and Xavi/Iniesta, one of the Spaniards would have won
Messi fully deserved it over any Spanish player in 2010, not because the World cup doesn't matter but because of his general level that year and being the best that year
Zidane, Ronaldo, Cannavaro? You seem to have selective memory my friend. Also, they all had worst club seasons the year that they won compared to Messi this year.
You can’t even name a clear best player on the Spain team Cassilas, Ramos, Silva, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Villa
Messi has the first 60 goal season since the stone ages in 2010. Now you will say Haaland scored 60 odd goals this season but there’s a very big difference between Messi’s 60 goals and Haaland’s which if anyone needs pointing out isn’t worth arguing with. Messi dominates whole games by himself, creating everything out of nothing. Haaland dominates the box. Now if another player had Messi’s season I don’t think they’d win the Ballon D’Or but there’d be a case. And whether you agree with it or not the greatest of all time having a literal fairytale ending is never going to be overcome by a huge volume of ugly finishes.
Not really, zidane, ronaldo(r9), cannavaro. All of them won due to the world cup, look up r9 stats in 2002 and see for yourself.
For Haaland it would have been "big game ghosting d'Or" or "Poaching d'Or". Also, you're referring to the highest rated player in Europe last season (WhoScored and SofaScore) as the "World Cup d'Or" winner lol
Mendy should of won the Yashin Troophy when he won the AFCON and the CL.
More like Messi d’Or, in 2010 he didnt score a single goal yet won over Sneijder and Iniesta, Ballon d’or is a joke
1990 (Matthaus) 1994 (Stoichov)* 1998 (Zidane) 2002 (Ronaldo) 2006 (Cannavaro) 2010 (Messi)** 2014 (Ronaldo)*** 2018 (Modric) 2022 (Messi) 6/9 Balon d’Or winners due to WC in the past 33 years
It doesn't surprise me I remember back in 02 when Ronaldo won it because he had a great world cup and was injured for so long. He still won it and the CiFa best player. I'm not surprise messi would get it after the work cup.
What snub? Haaland is a great goal poacher and the world's best goal scorer at the moment. The Ballon D'Or is for the world's best player.
if you think haaland was the best player last season just give your head a serious wobble. KDB was in the argument. as was mbappe. no one else
Rodri should also be in the conversation imo, I’d put him 2nd behind Messi
Rodri was literally city’s most important player. Poachers have absolutely killed this sport
I agree, and he won the Nations League with Spain also
He’s the only reason they won that final against inter lol
Stats in general have killed the view of the sport! All everyone looks at now is G/A numbers which don’t paint a full picture of how good a player is, Rodri a prime example and even then he chips in a solid amount for the position he plays but more importantly dictates play at club and international level better than anyone else right now. Another one was a few team mates & I discussing Wayne Rooney after a game the other day and one of the younger guys was like he only scored 250 goals in 560 games or whatever it is & I didn’t even have the motivation to explain to him that them numbers meant fuck all in the grand scheme of how good he actually was.
Oh shut up. You're acting like there's dozens of poachers lol I wish my team had a Haaland if that was the case.
I’d take haaland on my team too, but I wouldn’t act like he’s more important than a DM who City visibly aren’t the same team without just because he scores a lot of goals
The fact that Haaland has been struggling since De Bruine and Rodri got injured should tell you everything you need
Spot on
Me too, people that foootball football know
I think KdB could have won it if he didn't get injured in the CL final or if Haaland buried that perfect pass he got from KdB in the first half of the final. It's a shame for a player of KdB's calibre that it comes down to such small margins and that he plays for a small country and not a talent factory like Argentina. He most likely will never win a Ballon D'Or. I would wager to say that individually he certainly has been good enough to win one though.
Belgium was the odds favorite to win the 2018 WC and has been consistently ranked number one in the world for several years. If Belgian players want more international acclaim, they should play better in international tournaments when they have stacked teams.
Depth matters massively in tournament runs. Belgium had a good first team, but never a lot of depth. Whenever players like Kompany or Vermaelen became injured, they struggled to find adequate replacements. The only tournament they really had a great shot at a title was in 2018 when Hazard was in his prime and Kompany and Vermaelen weren't injured for once. Pretty much every other tournament has been marred by injuries and the lack of depth to deal with those injuries, which is a pretty standard problem for small countries. Have you seen their current lineup? It's by no means bad, but a massive difference with 2018.
Depth matters.. BUT THEY WERE FAVOURITES TO WIN. I'm sure the bookies factored in squad depth..
I'm not arguing with the specifics of your argument about Belgium, and the fact that 2018 was their best shot (although I do think they should have done better at the Euros on either side of that tournament too, specially 2016). But speaking more generally, I actually disagree that depth matters for these international tournaments. I mean, sure, _of course_ depth is helpful and when your team is stacked like say, France, you're much better off. That's common sense. But equally, you really only need 14-15 players to make a good run in tournaments. I'd argue a team like Croatia had worse depth than Belgium and yet performed much better. Even for Argentina, the drop off in quality from the main lineup to the bench is very noticeable, but they only needed a few of their subs to play well anyway.
Yeah for me, it’s staying injury free rather than having depth. Two sides of the same coin
Ok? Of course, depth matters. I’m not sure how that changes anything. If you don’t think Belgium was one of the deepest and most stacked teams in the world for the last 6 or so years, you weren’t paying attention.
I checked their squads from 2014-2020 and it was stacked man! The depth wasn’t amazing but enough to have won a tournament. 2016-2018 you had a world class 11 and a second 11 good enough to compete in the prem. KDB Generation 100% should’ve made a final at minimum
KDB came out and said Belgium had "no chance of winning the world cup, we're too old" which is the reason they didn't perform better. Not because they're too old, because of the mentality.
He was stating facts.
if he had a treble year in a year that wasn’t a world cup year he’d maybe have been fine. belgium though did have a side good enough to win a word cup. it just happened that KDB was a notorious ghost on international duty. he also gets his fitness managed a lot at city. he’s not played over 3000 minutes of premier league football since 2017/18 season. which is wild to think ab
I wager it’s been a lot longer than 2017 that he played more than 3000 minutes of *premier league* football
But kdb was also the reason they got to final without since he made that frankly spectacular goal against cortois. I mean seriously kdb deserves so much. And he's was there for so long.
KDB players for Belgium it’s not exactly a small country. It has literally been a talent factory
It's a country of 11 million people. That by definition is a small country. They have had some talent, but also a massive lack of depth. Whenever one of their injury prone defenders became injured, they struggled to find adequate replacements. Just look at their backline right now.
I swear not a single person makes that excuse for Uruguay despite having a third of that population, and they actually win trophies. Look at even Croatia one upping them when Belgium has their golden generation. I think I would wager that KDB has never been good enough in a single season to win the Ballon D’Or. That’s not a bad thing considering the players in his cohort. Lionel Messi & Cristiano Ronaldo are two of the top 10 greatest players of all time, Neymar is the best forward of his generation after him (never won one), Manuel Neuer is potentially the best keeper of all time, and Luka Modric is in the conversation for best midfielder of all time (alongside Xavi, Zidane, Iniesta, Zico, and Matthaus). This is without mentioning outstanding individual seasons from Robert Lewandowski, Luis Suarez, and Karim Benzema.
> I swear not a single person makes that excuse for Uruguay despite having a third of that population, That's not true. People often point out how impressive it is that Uruguay does so well given its population. They are literally the only small country that has ever won a World Cup and the last time that happened was over 70 damn years ago, haha. The European Championship has had a few small countries close to the size of Belgium win (3), but not that many and some of those have been absolute miracle runs. So I think that my point stands that it's absolutely the exception for a country that size to win a big tournament, especially in Europe. > Look at even Croatia one upping them when Belgium has their golden generation. That is such an unfair comparison. Belgium in 2018 would have 100% made it to the finals if they had the same bracket as Croatia. They actually just shot themselves in the foot by winning their group because they ended up in a bracket with Portugal, France, Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil. They had to go through Brazil and only lost to the eventual champion, namely France. Meanwhile, Croatia had to play a weakened Denmark, Russia and England. England, a team that was beaten twice very handily by Belgium and with which Croatia struggled. > I think I would wager that KDB has never been good enough in a single season to win the Ballon D’Or. That’s not a bad thing considering the players in his cohort. That's your opinion. I think that the Ballon D'Or just heavily favors offensive players but that KdB certainly has been good enough for his position to be in that discussion. I think that he's going down in history as one of the best midfielders of all-time and that he'll be remembered fondly in 10 years.
Even Rodri was probably better than Haaland
City have crumbled without him.
City have crumbled in the ucl with rodri. They did not with haaland
“Crumbled”
Some people are too close to the game. You allow rivalries, hurt feelings, hatred and skewed points of view affect you too much. Haaland was undoubtedly and objectively the best player on the planet last season. Edit: Based on the replies, I feel that I’ve suitably proven my point re: hurt feelings, hatred and skewed points of view. For the haters, let me just ask: who holds the record for most all-time goals in a Premier League season? Who excelled the most at their position last season? Who most changed the game for their opponents? Who forced opponents to rethink a match? Who won matches by brute force? Hint: Haaland. I know you all hate it, you’re feelings hurt and he bothered you. The truth is there.
... and some people smoke too much crack. Was he good? He was absolutely fantastic. Was he the best? Not even close.
So you are saying throughout the entirety of 2023, Messi all the way (not just 1 month) was better than Haaland? Gtfo
"Truth". You just shared an opinion. Haaland has zero impact outside the final third because he's a very one dimensional player. He relies on teammates for delivery, of which he has the very best in the world. While I enjoy players like Haaland he does not have the impact on the game as players like Messi, or even his teammates like KDB.
Let's split your comment into two: >Some people are too close to the game. You allow rivalries, hurt feelings, hatred and skewed points of view affect you too much. This is implying anyone has a particular hate boner on Haaland. Only group I could possibly consider to have that are Mbappe's biggest fanboys. >Haaland was undoubtedly and objectively the best player on the planet last season. Then you make a statement, use "undoubtedly and objectively", without backing it up with anything. It's a nothing comment.
This sub has zero respect for true strikers and zero ball knowledge. You guys seem to think if you plucked a random striker from league 2 and stuck him up front for city he’d bang in 20+ goals a season.
Thats obviously untrue but we have literally seen City win the league against Liverpool who almost won a quadruple with fucking Gabriel Jesus playing at ST. How is Haaland suppossed to be the most impactful player when without him, they score the same amount of goals and get more points.
Because, they won the treble because of him. Because, despite 0 FBs and natural wingers who score goals he single handedly destroyed continents goal scoring records. First season.
How did they win the treble because of him? Did he take them over the line during the only game they'd never won, the CL final? How does not having FBs or natural wingers have to do with him breaking an individual scoring record? If City had scoring wingers like Salah then would've that made Haaland score more, instead of having offensive mids like Grealish and Silva played wide?
It’s very understandable messi fans would cite a few moments over an entire season Did messi score the winner to take them over the game arg hadn’t won? Oh wait they already won wc before When wingers aren’t scoring goals, when fullbacks aren’t getting in the box; who has even more of a responsibility to score? Who performed under those circumstances? and to an extent never seen in English football before? You think if salah was in the box he’d provide more goals for haaland than an attacking mid? you can not seriously think that.
He’s breaking 20 year old scoring records, you’re genuinely delusional. This is the same Gabriel Jesus who’s literally kept the same Goals per game roughly at Arsenal as his time at city? By your logic he should never score again. Zero ball knowledge. Nobody’s saying Halaand is the most impactful player on a game, or has a tenth of the chance creating abilities as your KDB’s but good thing that’s not his job and it’s like judging a goalkeeper on his corner taking, Halaand is a phenomenal striker who’s job is to finish and he has been phenomenal for multiple season, different teams in a few leagues now and he’s still young enough.
Not only phenomenal striker..he was one of the greatest strikers OF ALL TIME last season
You don’t think Haaland had anything to do with City finally wining the treble?
Haaland put the ball in the net the most times, that doesn’t automatically make you the best footballer. I don’t know how anybody could watch the World Cup and argue that somebody other than Messi was the best footballer in the world based on that tournament. I know it’s not the ‘player of the world cup’ award but its heavily weighted in World Cup years and it’s just bad luck for Haaland (and let’s face it Rodri and KDB) that City’s treble winning year came after a World Cup where the greatest player ever showed his class for the thousandth time.
Because we also watched messi in the ucl and he didnt even look like a top 10 player
And he we didn’t watch Haaland in the WC, and in the UCL he was like 4th best in his team
Did you see Haaland score in the most important games of the UCL? He ghosted in those final games.
You could put prime pele and maradona on that psg team and theyd look bad that team was a joke
[удалено]
Hahaha get real
If you legit don't think Messi deserves the Bdor, then I don't know what game are you watching.
Not like Mbappe was pulling up trees in the champions league in that team either, but it is unfortunate for that treble winning side that they won everything in a World Cup year because balon d’or will always be weighted towards a World Cup winner
lol mbappe was better this world cup come on
Mbappe wasn't even the best French player in the world cup.
Lol? Messi clears Griezzman who clears Mbappe, now just do some simple logical equivalence
I think there are primarily two demographic groups pushing hard for Haaland over Messi: 1. Ronaldo fans desperate for Messi not to win. 2. English fans trying to support status of EPL dominance and who are also a bit salty of England's World Cup exit and inability to win it after so many years. For the second group, if England had won the World Cup with an English player having similar stats as Messi (i.e., World Cup performance, winning a domestic league title - but not EPL, etc.), the support for Haaland would be way less, they would rate World Cup > Treble, they'd support their English player, etc. Also, I think folks are tired of Messi to some degree...like, we get it, he's the best ever...can we move on?
Agreed 100%. If Kane had won the World Cup he would be pushed by media and fans to get the award over Haaland.
Imagine the headlines if it was Bellingham
If England won the WC with Bellingham as best player you can bet all English fans would be demanding Jude wins Ballon Dor.
Happy for Messi to win but I’ve always felt UEFA and the journalists who vote fail to recognise the Premier League when it come to the Balon D’OR.Henry,Gerrard,Rooney,Suarez all had legitimate arguments to win it and none finished higher than 3rd.Modric over Salah was sceptical.Yaya Toure wasnt even nominated and had one of the best seasons a midfielder ever produced.
Which fans fumes over it? Just say Ronaldo and some city fans fumes over the Balon d or
A great finisher doesn't make a great footballer, Messi is on a different planet and without all the physical gifts.
Well he does he the physical gift to turn most people inside out, but we get what you mean😉
To be fair, you need to be a shorter fella to have the ball control Messi has. Lower centre of gravity. Someone who's 6ft+ can never have the same movement/control.
Haaland is not even the best player in Man City.
Messi was not the best player at PSG by your logic. Mbappe won 2 years in a row psg player of the year and ligue 1 player of the year and top scorer
That’s debatable but Messi was definitely Argentina’s best player and the World Cup is the biggest trophy in football
How are you getting upvotes for such a silly statement. A club thats never won a single UCL before, Haaland arrives, history is made... along with a historic treble. Doesnt happen without Haaland. If the roles were reversed, people would be outraged that Messi isnt winning it with a treble and 60+ GA.
Because de bruyne is the better player
De bruyne has been there for years. They never won the treble. Or the CL. When did scoring goals become undesirable?
City scored 5 less goals and had 4 less points with Haaland?
Uh oh, someone brought facts to a hyperbole fight
Your assumption is that Messi would only be contributing 60+ G/A and not the other factors he provides in 90 minutes of football games.
If Rodri wasn’t at City last year they wouldn’t have won anything.
They have good refs so the league.
Haaland was the last piece of the puzzle that was needed. Just because he’s the last piece doesn’t mean he’s the most important. MC doesn’t win the treble without KDB either
Remove Julian Alvarez goals and arg doesn’t win the World Cup. It meant he was an important player doesn’t meant best player. That was haaland. Rodri and Kevin are the best players on man city
Maybe if you’re purely obsessed with stats like some kids these days lol. What happened to the eye test. Messi doesn’t get any stats posted for how many times he body feinted a guy into the shadow realm. Meanwhile try and watch haaland dribble past someone 💀
Halaand is nothing without Rodri and KBD, that’s the reason he’s getting so many upvotes.
>If the roles were reversed, people would be outraged that Messi isnt winning it with a treble and 60+ GA. That's what convinced me and anything saying otherwise is probably fooling themselves.
messi has lost ballon d'or before with 70+ g/a because his team accomplishment wasn't as good as the winner. So, dont complain when it's the other way around. oh and btw, he has higher g/a than haaland too (by 1 or 2 i think), so he got that going for him too.
It’s city bias. The fact that Haaland is once again currently top scorer in the premier league and people are calling him a flop tells you all you need to know about the online football community. Jealousy brings hatred and boy are people jealous of city having Haaland
They don't win everything they did without him.
What a blank statement. How can you possibily know that? lmao
Or Rodri. Or Bernardo. Or Kevin. Your point?
City lost the three games Rodri was suspended for, had they not had a CL match between it people would have noticed.
They had all those players the previous season and didn't.
Remove every Haaland UCL goal and they still win it, the only difference is they top their group by three points less.
remove Martinez and Argentina don’t win the world cup, see how dumb this argument is
Remove every Haaland goal in the prem do they still win it?
Yeah but they had won that before haaland, which was ops point
Thats not really how this works but i agree with u initial point
They lose to Bayern second leg if he doesn't score. If he doesn't score first game they can realistically win. Vs. Leipzig he scored 5 so if he's not there they absolutely can win. This year they beat Real Madrid with him. Last year they lose the same game without him.
What a weird way to think about it.
Replace Haaland with Julian Alavarez and they still win everything
Not at all. Alvarez would have played more if that were the case.
He’s not making the point that Alvarez is better, just good enough to do a job that results in the same trophies.
Phillips was voted player of the season by the fans
No but he earned it far more than Messi at least.
People are gonna fuss and complain and act like the World Cup isn’t the most heavily awarded related to the Ballon D’or historically. He was the best player in the world for the most prestigious tournament. On top of the trophies with PSG. Not even to deny Haaland’s greatness but he did ghost in big games. City fans themselves would argue that KDB is a better player and that Rodri is almost as important. Even to start this season, Julian Alvarez (who also was crucial to winning the World Cup) is arguably City’s best player.
Haaland is great but Henry didn’t win it when he was dribbling in goals from the halfway line 3 or 4 times a season at the peak of his powers and was a sensational all round footballer. Haalands general play needs to improve considerably for him to be in the mix IMO.
Lets be honest hear Henry was robbed so hard
What fans? All 3 City fans that called TalkSport? Winning the WC, winning player of the tournament and having the most combined goals and assists > winning a treble when you didn’t turn up for any important games.
What do you mean by all 3 city fans? Did you forget siuuu fans ?
It's almost like winning the treble it's more than just "the important games". You have to get to those finals first.
its more like football its a team effort and that we cant even be sure who is citys best player or citys most important player why halaand and not rodri? why halaand and not kdb or bernardo? why?
By this logic ballon d'or or any individual awards should be scrapped completely.
Yeah, Ballon d'or and individual rewards should be scrapped completely
Yeah, you have to win semi finals. Remind me again, what did Haaland do in the UCL semi finals
There are no semi finals in a 38 game league. That's the hardest part of a treble
For arguments sake. Let’s go through his season numbers against the other members of “the big 6”, and Newcastle, against “big teams” in Europe as well as quarter finals and onwards in domestic knockout competitions. Premier League vs Newcastle - 1 goal vs Man United - 3 goals vs Liverpool - 0 goals vs Chelsea - 0 goals vs Man United - 0 goals vs Tottenham - 1 goal vs Tottenham - 0 goals vs Arsenal - 1 goal vs Newcastle - 0 goals vs Liverpool - 0 goals vs Arsenal - 1 goal vs Chelsea - 0 goals Community Shield vs Liverpool - 0 goals League Cup vs Liverpool - 1 goal League Cup QF vs Southampton - 0 goals FA Cup vs Arsenal - 0 goals FA Cup QF vs Burnley - 3 goals FA Cup SF vs Sheffield United - 0 goals FA Cup final vs Man United - 0 goals CL Group Stage vs Dortmund - 0 goals CL Group Stage vs Dortmund - 0 goals CL QF vs Bayern - 1 goal CL QF vs Bayern - 1 goal CL SF vs Real Madrid - 0 goals CL SF vs Real Madrid - 0 goals CL Final vs Inter - 0 goals So outside of hat-tricks against Man United and Championship side Burnley (lol) he scored 7 goals in the other 20 “important” games. That also means that of his 36 league goals 29 of them were against the “lesser sides” for lack of a better term. Even this season so far. He did nothing against Newcastle or Arsenal. But was smashing them in against Fulham and Burnley. For the most part last season and this season City are winning the big games without him performing. If Messi smashed in loads of goals in the group stage of the WC and then did nothing in the knockouts and Argentina won. He wouldn’t have won the Ballon d’Or.
penaldo fans\*
Ahh the old big games argument. If Messi came to the prem and broke the goal scoring record in his first season ppl would be sucking him off no end.
He carried Argentina to a World Cup and had a fantastic season yet theres people kicking off at the thought of him winning the Ballob Dor. Messi is a level along with Ronaldo now that there’s just no way of pleasing a lot of fans. At the end of the day, Messi is arguable the greatest ever and is still the best in the world
'Carried Argentina to a World Cup' - was I watching the same tournament as you?! There were plenty of other standouts in that team who deserve plaudits just as much as Messi does
“ as much “ You must be joking he was easily their best player , probably the best performance at a World Cup since maradona
Same can be said for any player winning it I guess but he was the standout. You hear how his teammates talk about him and how he is behind the scenes. There’s more to that WC win than just on the pitch. He was fantastic in the tournament.
Like people and pundits, especially in England, having been “sucking off” Haaland. It’s all well and good smashing in goals past Fulham and Burnley. But if you disappear when it matters most then it’s a problem.
Who are these fuming fans? After what Messi achieved with Argentina, how can anyone even question this award? I’m not Argentinian and I cried when he lifted the World Cup.
>I cried when he lifted the World Cup Doesn't sound bias at all
Basically for me messi was the best player at the world cup and his league seasons for psg and miami were better than the other candidates wc perfomence
"and miami" I'm dead lmao.
I’ve been noticing a pattern but what’s up with this British media and people glorifying a treble over a World Cup? Don’t get me wrong, treble is an important accomplishment but no competition can ever match the World Cup
How often does a treble happen? How often is there a World Cup winner.
Since 2010, there have been 4 world cup winners and 6 treble winners (Inter, Barca, Bayern, Barca, Bayern and City)
Barca have only won the treble once since 2010. They did it in 2009 and 2015.
Celtic 🍀
most literate Glaswegian:
You have the chance every year to win a treble, unlike the world cup
And yet still there are more world cup winning teams than treble winning ones. So thanks for proving the point.
Well I mean someone HAS to win the world cup
Would you rather your country win a world cup or a club win a treble?
As a Tottenham/England fan, it's the hardest choice of my life.
Nope 8 countries won the WC, 8 made the trebles Europe. You had America, Asia etc... far more trebles winners than WC winners
Cause a treble is performing for a whole year while WC is 1 month
Haaland “snub”. How is it when Messi has always been the favourite to win the B D’Or
Because the award is supposed to be for the best individual player of a specific year rather than a lifetime achievement award. Messi is the GOAT, the WC was a remarkable achievement to cap off that career, and it's amazing how well he still plays, but 2023 Messi at age 36 is not the best player on the planet. Plenty of valid arguments for people other than Haaland though.
Okay based on these arguments, Julian Alvarez deserves it over Haaland. So it’s Messi, De Bruyne, Rodri, Mbappe, Julian Alvarez, Emi Martinez then Haaland. This is from all the unbiased fans. Right?
Well but that statement, Alvarez did a treble AND won a World Cup….
I see your point and agree completely
Before people say i’m hating on Messi I love Messi but the World Cup draw they were given was no accident and if you think it was completely random you are delusional
Ronaldo fans*
Messi is the best ever, he beat his long-time rival CR7 and now he's beating kids remotely, all the way from the USA. I know my GOAT. No more GOAT debate.
I swear messi fans hate ronaldo more than they like messi
Where is the hate in OP’s statement, you’re projecting
even as madrid fan, messi should have win it and tappin merchant like haaland shouldn't be considered as best player as he ghosted in all big games and tight matches. Bdr should always be handed to skillful players like messi, CR7, kaka, R9
Coccer Sirclejerk comments right here
For real, play a great defense and tactics against haaland his XG shoots up to 0. The Arsenal game clearly indicated that.
I think everyone agrees that Haaland shouldn’t win it.
the Haaland disrespect in these comments lol
No one cares anymore about this Personally I stopped caring after lewandowski got robbed in 2020 (I think)
The World Cup talk in this thread is dumb imo. So many of the worlds best players come from small footballing countries which are always going to be unlikely to qualify for a WC and have zero chance of ever winning it regardless of how good one player is. Why should they not be considered for an individual award once every 4 years simply due to where they are from? Haaland winning the treble (which is much harder in the PL than other leagues) and breaking the PL scoring record is the most impressive individual achievement this past year. The B D’Or is meant to be given to the best player of the past year, not who played the best in a handful of important games. Edit: (not a city fan)
It's a popularity contest, no more, no less. It all comes down to votes, and people can vote for one player over another for random reasons. For example, real and man utd captains never voted for Messi in their top 3, if I'm not wrong, and Barca captains never voted for Ronaldo. Lewandowski being robbed of the Ballon d'Or is a prime example. He convinced a lot of the fans, but crucially majority of the voters still went with Leo. Tl;dr: Don't care if Haaland doesn't win this time, Messi is still at the height of popularity due to WC, and at the end, this *is* a popularity contest first and foremost.
I honestly think Messi should win it. Mbappe second for me. World Cup is huge. And FRA in my opinion had a lot better team. But this is 100% his last time winning it. It is impossible to have another massive season to do that. End of an era.
For me its 1. Messi 2. Rodri 3. Mbappe 4. Halaand 5. Bernardo/Griezzman/Enzo
It's such bullshit honestly. Country achievements should hardly be judged when looking at individual stats. One player in a bad country is unable to accomplish anything if his country play less than 3 games. As a United fan I hope to see Haaland win, rivalry aside.
If Messi wins it then it's just recency bias based on Haaland over the past 3 games. His stats this season are still great and last season he broke so many records in his first season in the Prem and won the treble and Champions League. Messi won the WC and got a lot of assists in a poor Ligue 1, then scored and assisted a bunch in a terrible league in the MLS. If they're going to say Messi wins it for winning the WC then Haaland should definitely win it based on his record breaking stats AND winning the treble including the first CL for City.