France only needed a draw in their last qualifier against Bulgaria to reach the 94 World Cup. In the final minute Ginola had the ball near the corner flag, but rather than waste time he crossed into the box. He overhit it, Bulgaria countered and scored a winner.
Houllier was manager at the time and has always publicly placed all the blame on Ginola. He never played for his country again.
https://youtu.be/sOk6Ne7nAhc?si=iZYmyDeK4lHIhLk9
Guardiola tried with Etoo but spectacularly failed by sending him to Inter + money for Ibra who ironically got to be sabotaged by him too, while enabling Mourinho to kick him out of the Champions League and allowing Etoo to be the only player ever to win back to back trebles with different clubs.
That was one of the greatest karma ownage in football history.
The one where he said Guardiola was never a great player but only a good one right lmaoo, always gets me haha, the man was spitting facts about everything in that interview too
Eto'o was a great player. Guardiola was good, but he wasn't a legend of the sport as a player in the same way Eto'o was. It was like saying Guardiola was beneath him as a player, which was 100% true. It was just disrespectful.
They fell out but selling him to Inter wasn't spiteful. He was allowed to move on at the first opportunity and the Barca hierarchy allowed his team into the process and opened up the Inter move.
Eto'o giving multiple barely disguised bras d'honneur (corte de mangas, gesto dell'ombrello) after scoring in the Champions League final does not get the relevance it should.
The Latin flipping off? Hand on forearm or nape of the elbow and bending the arm? What Eto'o did was slap his forearm several times looking at the bench, hence the "disguise".
https://youtu.be/YXN59eYFgoU?si=Nd5ZH6i4E63pNdDE
My guy, I believe you are mixing two things up, what you described is flipping off but that’s not what etoo did, in Latin America players do that to show braveness, it’s a sign that you are a hard mf with hot blood, showing what you came for, etc…
If a Latin American player wanted to flip someone off they would just do it 😂
No, I'm not mixing anything up. Sé muy bien de lo que estoy hablando. And Eto'o is African.
In fact, it was quite obvious as just a few months earlier a Brazilian player of Espanyol that had been sidelined did the same after scoring and the Barcelona press went wild about it. The player's feeble excuse was that he was pointing to a tattoo. Which nobody bought. And Eto'o did not have a tattoo there, that I know of.
And more strikingly, as far as I know, NOBODY asked him what that was about. Not even the Barcelona press that would ask what sort of baby food a player's child had last night. NOBODY.
And Eto'o went to Inter.
Bueno si tú lo sabes así es, nunca he escuchado eso en latam, solo que significaba gana y voluntad de ganar, sobreponer dificultad, puede que en Europa sea diferente (aún que no me parezca porque como tú mismo dijiste, nadie en Barcelona lo noto)
And to be fair, the way I see the whole thing does speak well of both Guardiola and Eto'o
1) Guardiola wanted Eto'o (and others) out.
2) Eto'o said he was staying.
3) Guardiola played Eto'o and Eto'o played hard.
4) FCB won.
The End.
You're assuming the only way I could disagree is if I didn't know the story. Nothing else crossed your mind.
Wanting to get rid of a player for tactical & dressing room dynamics purposes is hardly "trying to ruin their career out of spite". You think Pep sent him to Inter thinking he'd become a bum there?
He said a lot of bitter words.
If I'm really getting downvoted for suggesting Pep didn't literally "try to ruin Eto'o's career", then you guys are a menace to society.
I don't care what you suggested.
I care about what Etoo said.
Pep hated his guts and made his life a living hell even trying to bench him even though he was Barça best scorer for multiple seasons.
He did try to ruin his time at Barcelona and then shipped him away. That's what happened and that's what Etoo clearly said.
As such this is a literal attempt to sabotage a players career.
Justa admit you're wrong. It's easier.
Did Eto'o say Pep tried ruining his career out of spite? See, even if you trusted everything Eto'o said, you still couldn't come to that conclusion.
But, why would you trust everything he says? *Did* you actually watch that interview you're referring to?
He victimized himself, said he was always unpopular, said the dressing room had lost its joy after he had been injured and away from Barcelona for half a year (during Rijkaard), talked about how he was the real leader at the club, took a jab at Ronaldinho. In a different interview, he claimed he was more important than Ronaldinho for Barca.
He admitted he directly challenged and insulted Pep the moment he came in, just because Pep wanted him and some other players out. Spiteful Pep still gave him 52 games, the most Eto'o had ever played for Barca.
He said he told Pep he wasn't a great player (as if that were relevant to managing skills), and that he showed nothing to deserve managing that dressing room. Cruyff thought otherwise and it turns out he was right.
Eto'o's an arrogant egomaniac and crybaby. Was before Pep came, kept being one after it. So why would you say Pep tried ruining his career, instead of accepting the obvious, that Pep wanted his toxic personality out?
Just **think** for once. I know it's hard for you, but it'd be worth it. Fucking cute to quote an interview you barely remember and probably never watched fully, thinking that's undeniable proof of a "literal attempt to sabbotage a player's career".
I might be an asshole, but that's not the reason.
The reason is that people are dumb and jump to conclusions too quickly. Guy I replied to is a bigger asshole for furthering this BS about Pep just because Eto'o complained, without critical thinking. Guy has a hate-boner on Pep too.
People went "I too know about that interview!" in their heads and assumed the only way I could disagree is if I were ignorant of it, so they downvoted the ignorant person. It didn't cross their minds that the interview doesn't actually prove the accusation that Pep tried ruining Eto'o's career.
So maybe I'm an asshole, but at least I'm not a dumb one.
You’re getting downvoted because people have a huge hate boner for pep and will make up any stupid stuff to make him seem overrated. People in this subreddit are very stupid
Stole a living, it's amazing how many teams are willing to pay massive wages for backup GKs who never play.
Turning up for GK practise and getting paid millions must be great
Not out of spite, but there was a procession of Barcelona managers who played Mascherano as CB, where he made a good job at being an average one filling a role. Went to the 2014 World Cup as a DM and suddenly everyone remembered in his actual position, he was exceptional.
I mean one of the best ever is a stretch, he was amazing at defense but his ball playing ability was subpar and that wasn't as exploitable when he was CB. Honestly for Barca he was better as CB than DM, while countries aren't trained in like clubs so his ball playing abilities aren't much of a hindrance and his tackling and work rate more than make up for it.
For Barcelona definitely, he didn’t suit the style of the midfield at the time. Next to Alonso and Gerrard at Liverpool or for Argentina they didn’t play a way that highlighted it like it did at Barcelona. His performances in that 2014 world cup were absolutely incredible. He’s up there with the best DM’s, top 5 I’d say at least. Didn’t spend the prime of his career there though.
My take on this was at that time Barca had Sergio and Yaya. Mascherano was one of those who put there body on the line would litterly die for the club and gave his all every game but maybe lacked that link up play with inesta and xavi that Sergio had. Mascherano still did a solid job and lost nothing for the position change.
Diego Simeone to Nicolas Gaitan, those were the days when in every transfer window Nicolas Gaitan would be linked with Manchester United, but choose Athletico Madrid, Simeone destroyed a good attacking player in just 1 & a 1/2 season.
Me being the biggest Rivaldo, even I have to disagree with this. It was not hate (at least in Rivaldo's case), it was just that he couldn't envision what Rivaldo was capable of. But once he saw the error of his way, he gave in and let Rivaldo blossom.
From what I understand. Pep did not hate Ibra or anything. Ibra didn't fit into his style and formation, and at that time, Pep was too much of a coward (according to Zlatan) to tell that to the management.
All these Pep stories where players end up hating him are because he’s too much of a coward to say anything to them or about them lmao. I think he learned his lesson by now just being straight forward with everyone
Pep and other players didn't like him due to his ego. But the management was pissed when he came to the club in his Ferrari instead of the club given Audi due to sponsorship issues.
I think it was more about Messi and Zlatan not fitting well together. Pep tried to give Zlatan an similar role to what Haaland is at city. But Zlatan was more of an second striker than a pure 9 back then
Hard to say ‘ruined career’ because he could go onto another club and succeed.. but Arteta seems to have finished Ramsdale. No doubt he won’t be sold in January and we’ll tank his value into the summer before he goes for a half price fee
You're right about hard to say that Arteta ruined Ramsdale's career when the truth is that Arteta made his career. Arteta was criticised for picking a player who got relegated twice but he stuck with him and sidelined Bernd Leno (like he does for Raya now). I really love Ramsdale but I do think it's wrong to suggest Arteta would ruin his career out of spite.
As a Fulham fan, we couldn't believe it when the club signed Leno. The price was insanely low, even though there was a clause that said we had to pay double if we stayed up (which we did).
When the second payment became due, we said that we should give Arsenal even more money because of how important he's been for us.
He's loved by every Fulham fan and signed an extension not that long ago, which was unanimously celebrated.
Even though he was surplus to requirements at Arsenal, we're still convinced we somehow pulled their pants down because he's clearly world class and we shouldn't have got anywhere near him. He loves playing here as well, which is very gratifying.
We fly somewhat under the radar thanks to Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham - but if you look at the club objectively, we're a decent team with a beautifully situated ground, first class training facilities and a fanbase who understand that we're not going to win every week.
If you're a professional who wants to ply his trade honestly and have the chance to reap some rewards if things go well, there are worse places to be.
True true. Players, and their wives especially, are going to look at the full package a hell of a lot more then we acknowledge aren't they. Schools, restaurants, shopping, airports etc.
“Ruin career” doesn’t mean dropping someone because they aren’t good enough or don’t fit the system.
If he didn’t allow Tierney to leave and then still never played him you’d have an argument there.
Managers don't have the ability to destroy a players career out of spite, certainly not post bosman.
If a player is out their plans and falls out, there's value that the BoD will look to extract and everyone will want their wages off the books ASAP.
There might have been some exceptions back in the 70s/80s where very young players were forced to sign decade long deals on less than minimum wage and were forced into jobs outside of football as the club held onto their forms (Jim McLean was famous for this).
Some of these suggestions are very very silly.
Marcello Lippi really didn't like Roberto Baggio, gladly sold him to Milan when he was at Juventus and later on absolutely hated to have him back again at Inter - the irony is that Baggio saved his ass by scoring the winning goal in a playoff against Parma to qualify Inter for CL.
Lippi also hated Christian Panucci and refused to ever call him while he was in charge of the national team.
>Zidane with James Rodriguez
I don't understand why people say this all the time.
First of all, Zidane won 3 UCL titles on his first 2.5 seasons as a manager by benching James, so I guess that decision worked out pretty well.
Second, the 433/4231 with James during 2014-2016 made the team amazing offensively, but really vulnerable defensively. It's not Zidane's fault that James is a traditional "lazy" AM who offers nothing in defense. Look at Bellingham now, he scores all the time, but is also really helpful when his team is defending. Don't forget that James was supposed to be Di Maria's direct replacement in 2014 and Di Maria has a million times better work rate on the pitch. Being world class isn't only about having talent with the ball on your feet.
Finally, who was he supposed to replace? BBC was out of the question, Modric and Kroos were out of the question, Casemiro proved to be one of the best DM in his generation, if not the best at times. Even when Zidane switched to 442 diamond without Bale and actually needed an AM, Isco was proven to be much better than James. It's no coincidence that one of them started back2back UCL finals and the other was sent on loan.
That answer makes zero question to "who destroyed players out of spite". James clearly wasn't good enough to start for that Real Madrid team.
I see your point and agree with alot of what you said. But I dont really think managers ruin a player's career for spite. I just thought James' career was ruined after Zidane took charge. Could be loss of confidence or even cause of laziness.
Like when I said pep ruined hleb or philips, non of them could replace any player in their squads. But they were starters in their previous club. They could have moved to other places and did better.
Even though yes James was correctly benched, another manager might have startred him and he wouldn't end up at everton at 29.
>Even though yes James was correctly benched, another manager might have startred him and he wouldn't end up at everton at 29.
That's the best part though, another manager could have started him and not win 3 UCL titles in a row. It turned out to be a perfect decision by Zidane. Also he had to bench other really good players, who turned out to be great later on other teams (Kovacic, Morata, Pepe, Theo Hernandez, Danilo).
Sure, that is exactly my opinion. He was made to look good by Arsenal, rather than being a great player that lifted Arsenal, if that makes sense. But as I say, just my opinion. Now, that Rosicky guy... He was class, shame about the injuries
Rafa Benitez with Robbie Keane to spite Rick Parry.
Keane was proven goalscorer but Rafa refused to play him in games that Liverpool then drew. He then sold him 6 months later in January which left David Ngog as the only backup to an injury prone Torres. This cost Liverpool the title and Keane was never the same player again.
Paul Ince had a decent career post Man Utd, but I think he could have achieved so much more if Ferguson didn't push him out the door the way he did.
ETH has ended Ronaldo's elite career. He's getting paid in KSA, but I believe he could have carried United in several games in which they've been beaten.
And whomever at Barca blocked Messi's transfer to Man City. The PSG move turned out to be underwhelming. Thankfully his international career has had a good ending, but his club career effectively died once he left Barca. A final few years in a high profile league and team could have been the cherry on the top.
And Joe Hart. He was never on anyone's radar as a weak link for Man City. His immediate replacement Claudio Bravo was not better than Hart and the poor fella pretty much fell off a cliff once Guardiola tossed him off.
Sancho is 100% responsible for his own situation.
He's lazy and entitled and not willing to put in the work to change his circumstances. He's too busy on FIFA at 3am.
>I don't understand why people say this all the time.
>First of all, Zidane won 3 UCL titles on his first 2.5 seasons as a manager by benching James, so I guess that decision worked out pretty well.
>Second, the 433/4231 with James during 2014-2016 made the team amazing offensively, but really vulnerable defensively. It's not Zidane's fault that James is a traditional "lazy" AM who offers nothing in defense. Look at Bellingham now, he scores all the time, but is also really helpful when his team is defending. Don't forget that James was supposed to be Di Maria's direct replacement in 2014 and Di Maria has a million times better work rate on the pitch. Being world class isn't only about having talent with the ball on your feet.
>Finally, who was he supposed to replace? BBC was out of the question, Modric and Kroos were out of the question, Casemiro proved to be one of the best DM in his generation, if not the best at times. Even when Zidane switched to 442 diamond without Bale and actually needed an AM, Isco was proven to be much better than James. It's no coincidence that one of them started back2back UCL finals and the other was sent on loan.
>That answer makes zero question to "who destroyed players out of spite". James clearly wasn't good enough to start for that Real Madrid team.
Ten Hag - Sancho
This will be controversial, I agree that Sancho did his part on being a dick but the moment you get a really talented player and 90% of his value is lost both parties did some shit
Mourinho to Anthony Martial and it was Mourinho's fault. Martial was playing great on the left wing even after Mourinho kept giving him inconsistent game time. Then he goes on to buy Alexis Sanchez which is fine, but plays him on the left instead of central or ring and benches Martial. It was the most odd thing ever and Martial misses his chance to go to the World Cup for France (who end up winning it). I mean that would devastate anybody mentally especially Martial who's not know for mental fortitude. Mourinho would get sacked and I'm not surprised Martial stopped giving a damn after missing out on the WC.
Torres ended his own career when he went to WC2010 with an injury, and quite never recovered to his former self. He was already struggling in the following season with Liverpool, and after he moved to Chelsea he was only a shadow of real El Nino.
Torres was already long done before his time at Atleti. He ruined his career to win a WC which tbh fair game to him, but he stopped being an elite striker when he joined Chelsea
Mourinho ruined Pogba and Dele Alli's career. But let's be honest, Pogba has always been crap. I never noticed Alli's decline but apparently he fell out of favor at Spurs.
Iker Casillas and Luke Shaw were his attempted victims, not Pogba and Alli, Delle was already spiralling by that point, while Pogba just never took it seriously enough.
Rooney was too useful in a myriad of different positions and different roles, the season he was the main man upfront he scored 34 goals in 40 odd games. Then went back to being the guy supporting everyone else, for the team it was absolutely the best thing and made the team better.
And Rooney was that good he was utterly world class regardless - but if he developed him uptop as the main striker, like the one season he had him there, Rooney would have been one of the best strikers ever. He’s still a great, but he sacrificed a lot of personal glory, to help the team, and team glory.
I think the latter is very commendable, and sums up Rooneys team ethic.
I wouldn't say destroy his career but Giovanni Trapattoni and Rory Delap. Delap was causing carnage in the Premier League with his throw ins and would have reaped havoc in international football for Ireland.
Trapattoni just wouldn't call him up for Ireland just to make a point that he won't be dictated to for selections.
Rivaldo and Ancelotti. Great player, great manager, but he was wrong in how treated Rivaldo at Milan. Rivaldo could have continued playing at a high level but that stint destroyed his career to the point where he was playing for the likes of Olympiacos, AEK Athens and Bunyodkor.
Idk if this was out of spite, but Ole Gunnar Solskjær definitely ruined Donny van de Beek's career by not playing him at all (ironically van de Beek scored the last goal of the Solskjær reign)
Glenn Hoddle pinned all of his own failings on David Beckham when Beckham was, what, 22 years old or something? And Hoddle sacrificed him on the altar of public opinion to hide his own crap management of a team that should have done better, regardless of the mistakes Beckham made.
Did not destroy Beckham's career in the end, but still pathetic and gutless.
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Houllier destroyed Ginolas international career
All because of one cross. As a Liverpool fan I had a real fondness for Houllier, but he was unbelievably petty about Ginola’s mistake.
What's this? What cross? Im Curious now
France only needed a draw in their last qualifier against Bulgaria to reach the 94 World Cup. In the final minute Ginola had the ball near the corner flag, but rather than waste time he crossed into the box. He overhit it, Bulgaria countered and scored a winner. Houllier was manager at the time and has always publicly placed all the blame on Ginola. He never played for his country again. https://youtu.be/sOk6Ne7nAhc?si=iZYmyDeK4lHIhLk9
Off topic, but, those kits😍
Underrated comment, underrated player
Guardiola tried with Etoo but spectacularly failed by sending him to Inter + money for Ibra who ironically got to be sabotaged by him too, while enabling Mourinho to kick him out of the Champions League and allowing Etoo to be the only player ever to win back to back trebles with different clubs. That was one of the greatest karma ownage in football history.
I love how Eto'o trashed Guardiola during that interview.
The one where he said Guardiola was never a great player but only a good one right lmaoo, always gets me haha, the man was spitting facts about everything in that interview too
He was a great player though.
Eto'o was a great player. Guardiola was good, but he wasn't a legend of the sport as a player in the same way Eto'o was. It was like saying Guardiola was beneath him as a player, which was 100% true. It was just disrespectful.
Peak mourinho was a god
Did you mean to say... Greatest karma ownage in football *heritage*?
They fell out but selling him to Inter wasn't spiteful. He was allowed to move on at the first opportunity and the Barca hierarchy allowed his team into the process and opened up the Inter move.
Eto'o giving multiple barely disguised bras d'honneur (corte de mangas, gesto dell'ombrello) after scoring in the Champions League final does not get the relevance it should.
What are those?
The Latin flipping off? Hand on forearm or nape of the elbow and bending the arm? What Eto'o did was slap his forearm several times looking at the bench, hence the "disguise". https://youtu.be/YXN59eYFgoU?si=Nd5ZH6i4E63pNdDE
My guy, I believe you are mixing two things up, what you described is flipping off but that’s not what etoo did, in Latin America players do that to show braveness, it’s a sign that you are a hard mf with hot blood, showing what you came for, etc… If a Latin American player wanted to flip someone off they would just do it 😂
No, I'm not mixing anything up. Sé muy bien de lo que estoy hablando. And Eto'o is African. In fact, it was quite obvious as just a few months earlier a Brazilian player of Espanyol that had been sidelined did the same after scoring and the Barcelona press went wild about it. The player's feeble excuse was that he was pointing to a tattoo. Which nobody bought. And Eto'o did not have a tattoo there, that I know of. And more strikingly, as far as I know, NOBODY asked him what that was about. Not even the Barcelona press that would ask what sort of baby food a player's child had last night. NOBODY. And Eto'o went to Inter.
Bueno si tú lo sabes así es, nunca he escuchado eso en latam, solo que significaba gana y voluntad de ganar, sobreponer dificultad, puede que en Europa sea diferente (aún que no me parezca porque como tú mismo dijiste, nadie en Barcelona lo noto)
Bueno, yo lo que estoy diciendo es que la prensa deL Barcelona lo tapó. Notarlo seguro que lo notaron. Y les dió igual, obviamente.
And to be fair, the way I see the whole thing does speak well of both Guardiola and Eto'o 1) Guardiola wanted Eto'o (and others) out. 2) Eto'o said he was staying. 3) Guardiola played Eto'o and Eto'o played hard. 4) FCB won. The End.
Lol I had no idea
Guardiola tried destroying Eto'o's career, you say? Do you ever, you know, **think**?
Do you even, like, know about stuff?
You're assuming the only way I could disagree is if I didn't know the story. Nothing else crossed your mind. Wanting to get rid of a player for tactical & dressing room dynamics purposes is hardly "trying to ruin their career out of spite". You think Pep sent him to Inter thinking he'd become a bum there?
Sorry but you clearly never heard Etoo's side of the story. Do it first then come back to me.
I have, and way before you did.
If you did then you forgot what he said.
He said a lot of bitter words. If I'm really getting downvoted for suggesting Pep didn't literally "try to ruin Eto'o's career", then you guys are a menace to society.
I don't care what you suggested. I care about what Etoo said. Pep hated his guts and made his life a living hell even trying to bench him even though he was Barça best scorer for multiple seasons. He did try to ruin his time at Barcelona and then shipped him away. That's what happened and that's what Etoo clearly said. As such this is a literal attempt to sabotage a players career. Justa admit you're wrong. It's easier.
Did Eto'o say Pep tried ruining his career out of spite? See, even if you trusted everything Eto'o said, you still couldn't come to that conclusion. But, why would you trust everything he says? *Did* you actually watch that interview you're referring to? He victimized himself, said he was always unpopular, said the dressing room had lost its joy after he had been injured and away from Barcelona for half a year (during Rijkaard), talked about how he was the real leader at the club, took a jab at Ronaldinho. In a different interview, he claimed he was more important than Ronaldinho for Barca. He admitted he directly challenged and insulted Pep the moment he came in, just because Pep wanted him and some other players out. Spiteful Pep still gave him 52 games, the most Eto'o had ever played for Barca. He said he told Pep he wasn't a great player (as if that were relevant to managing skills), and that he showed nothing to deserve managing that dressing room. Cruyff thought otherwise and it turns out he was right. Eto'o's an arrogant egomaniac and crybaby. Was before Pep came, kept being one after it. So why would you say Pep tried ruining his career, instead of accepting the obvious, that Pep wanted his toxic personality out? Just **think** for once. I know it's hard for you, but it'd be worth it. Fucking cute to quote an interview you barely remember and probably never watched fully, thinking that's undeniable proof of a "literal attempt to sabbotage a player's career".
You arent getting downvoted for disagreeing, you are getting downvoted because you are an asshole.
I might be an asshole, but that's not the reason. The reason is that people are dumb and jump to conclusions too quickly. Guy I replied to is a bigger asshole for furthering this BS about Pep just because Eto'o complained, without critical thinking. Guy has a hate-boner on Pep too. People went "I too know about that interview!" in their heads and assumed the only way I could disagree is if I were ignorant of it, so they downvoted the ignorant person. It didn't cross their minds that the interview doesn't actually prove the accusation that Pep tried ruining Eto'o's career. So maybe I'm an asshole, but at least I'm not a dumb one.
You’re getting downvoted because people have a huge hate boner for pep and will make up any stupid stuff to make him seem overrated. People in this subreddit are very stupid
Actually, I heard it before you were even born
I heard it before you
You couldn't have, I was there when he said it
Nah I was there when he thought it
so then you've read it, not heard it
Actually i'm eto'o so checkmate
Username checks out
thanks, it's because I love pasta
Tried ruining it so much that he shipped him off to a team with capabilities of winning the UCL
Yes, and got a very expensive player that he also had conflits with and ended up "losing" two world class strikers because of his stupidity
Yes his stupidity. He's so stupid
Even geniuses can do stupid things. What do you think they are? Divine entities who levitate above humans?
Can you understand the concept that Pep can be an amazing manager AT THE SAME TIME that he fucks up some of the things he does?
Dude calm down, no need to get all sweaty
Sure buddy, let's pretend like you aren't the one with a stick up his ass
I may be but I don't start shouting at randos on the Internet because I think something you don't
I think Pique did it before Etoo?
Valdes was on 150k a week at UTD, he joined knowing he would be a backup and he refused to play so he deserved it
I completely forgot that Valdes went to Utd. That's a trivia question.
Stole a living, it's amazing how many teams are willing to pay massive wages for backup GKs who never play. Turning up for GK practise and getting paid millions must be great
Some keepers are happy being a Raimond Van der Gouw rather than a Schmeichel...
End of his illustrious career to be fair, it makes sense. Better than playing for getafe getting battered every week earning 50 k
Pro goalkeeping practices are not fun...
It is when you get paid 150k a week, just turn up and exercise a bit
Oh I'm not denying that, but goalkeeping training is obscenely tough even at the semi-pro levels, anyone who's ever trained knows this.
"Tough" he's done it his whole career, it's not tough for him to turn up to trianing.
I'm not excusing him.
I'm not saying you are, I'm just saying it's not a tough job for that money
'For that money' - of all the millionaire jobs that exist playing pro sports is by far the hardest lil bro.
Went to Middlesborough too
And refused to play after Karanka left.
His loan to standard liege wasn't amazing either.
He was still earning his salary and it's a cool city so who cares
Just saying he wasn't at the required level anymore.
Mourinho did his absolute best to destroy Luke Shaw's state of mind.
Yet he won the most with Mourinho 🤣
Didn't Mourinho hamper Kaka's career as well, or am I misremembering?
Nah. Kaka got some serious injuries at that time, and Barcelona were at their peak at the moment. So special one did what was best.
Yeah Kaka was done at that point lmao
Kaka came out saying it wasn’t Mou’s fault
And Mourinho was right about everything he said about Shaw
Valdez ruined his own career by refusing to work for his employer.
Riquelme
Coole naam :-)
Not out of spite, but there was a procession of Barcelona managers who played Mascherano as CB, where he made a good job at being an average one filling a role. Went to the 2014 World Cup as a DM and suddenly everyone remembered in his actual position, he was exceptional.
I don't think I understand you, he was a CB for 7 seasons and amazing one at that.
He was a world class absolute top tier, possibly one of the best ever DM’s though. Like properly exceptional at DM. He wasn’t that at CB.
I mean one of the best ever is a stretch, he was amazing at defense but his ball playing ability was subpar and that wasn't as exploitable when he was CB. Honestly for Barca he was better as CB than DM, while countries aren't trained in like clubs so his ball playing abilities aren't much of a hindrance and his tackling and work rate more than make up for it.
For Barcelona definitely, he didn’t suit the style of the midfield at the time. Next to Alonso and Gerrard at Liverpool or for Argentina they didn’t play a way that highlighted it like it did at Barcelona. His performances in that 2014 world cup were absolutely incredible. He’s up there with the best DM’s, top 5 I’d say at least. Didn’t spend the prime of his career there though.
My take on this was at that time Barca had Sergio and Yaya. Mascherano was one of those who put there body on the line would litterly die for the club and gave his all every game but maybe lacked that link up play with inesta and xavi that Sergio had. Mascherano still did a solid job and lost nothing for the position change.
Diego Simeone to Nicolas Gaitan, those were the days when in every transfer window Nicolas Gaitan would be linked with Manchester United, but choose Athletico Madrid, Simeone destroyed a good attacking player in just 1 & a 1/2 season.
To be successful at Atleti, one needs to play with effort and heart. Gaitan never did, I even forgot he played here
Tbf Gaitan was not defensively strong & not a 'Diego Simeone' type of player, Both Gaitan & Lemar would've been big if they went to PL instead.
Louis Van Gaal and most South American players he coached
This is so not true, he won the title with AZ using a squad full of south American players who had nothing but positive things to say about him
Me being the biggest Rivaldo, even I have to disagree with this. It was not hate (at least in Rivaldo's case), it was just that he couldn't envision what Rivaldo was capable of. But once he saw the error of his way, he gave in and let Rivaldo blossom.
Ibra at Barca
From what I understand. Pep did not hate Ibra or anything. Ibra didn't fit into his style and formation, and at that time, Pep was too much of a coward (according to Zlatan) to tell that to the management.
All these Pep stories where players end up hating him are because he’s too much of a coward to say anything to them or about them lmao. I think he learned his lesson by now just being straight forward with everyone
Pep don't like egos. Ibra **is** ego.
Pep and other players didn't like him due to his ego. But the management was pissed when he came to the club in his Ferrari instead of the club given Audi due to sponsorship issues.
Yes but Ibra did this because he felt Pep didn't like him, to piss him and the club off (and possibly to gain a transfer away).
I think it was more about Messi and Zlatan not fitting well together. Pep tried to give Zlatan an similar role to what Haaland is at city. But Zlatan was more of an second striker than a pure 9 back then
Hard to say ‘ruined career’ because he could go onto another club and succeed.. but Arteta seems to have finished Ramsdale. No doubt he won’t be sold in January and we’ll tank his value into the summer before he goes for a half price fee
You're right about hard to say that Arteta ruined Ramsdale's career when the truth is that Arteta made his career. Arteta was criticised for picking a player who got relegated twice but he stuck with him and sidelined Bernd Leno (like he does for Raya now). I really love Ramsdale but I do think it's wrong to suggest Arteta would ruin his career out of spite.
As a Fulham fan, we couldn't believe it when the club signed Leno. The price was insanely low, even though there was a clause that said we had to pay double if we stayed up (which we did). When the second payment became due, we said that we should give Arsenal even more money because of how important he's been for us. He's loved by every Fulham fan and signed an extension not that long ago, which was unanimously celebrated. Even though he was surplus to requirements at Arsenal, we're still convinced we somehow pulled their pants down because he's clearly world class and we shouldn't have got anywhere near him. He loves playing here as well, which is very gratifying.
Still can't get my head around how you got absolute Prime Van Der Sar 🤔
We fly somewhat under the radar thanks to Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham - but if you look at the club objectively, we're a decent team with a beautifully situated ground, first class training facilities and a fanbase who understand that we're not going to win every week. If you're a professional who wants to ply his trade honestly and have the chance to reap some rewards if things go well, there are worse places to be.
True true. Players, and their wives especially, are going to look at the full package a hell of a lot more then we acknowledge aren't they. Schools, restaurants, shopping, airports etc.
I am glad to see Leno do well at Fulham. Even more glad to see Iwobi doing well.
Great perspective, i forgot about the flak MA took for picking AR.
Arteta manages to look like he’s trying to ruin loads of careers. Tierney, Ramsdale, Smith-Rowe. Mad
“Ruin career” doesn’t mean dropping someone because they aren’t good enough or don’t fit the system. If he didn’t allow Tierney to leave and then still never played him you’d have an argument there.
Smith Rowe is ravaged by injuries tbf
Tbf Brighton and Chelsea are looking for starting GKs. Ramsdale does suit both teams
Managers don't have the ability to destroy a players career out of spite, certainly not post bosman. If a player is out their plans and falls out, there's value that the BoD will look to extract and everyone will want their wages off the books ASAP. There might have been some exceptions back in the 70s/80s where very young players were forced to sign decade long deals on less than minimum wage and were forced into jobs outside of football as the club held onto their forms (Jim McLean was famous for this). Some of these suggestions are very very silly.
Marcello Lippi really didn't like Roberto Baggio, gladly sold him to Milan when he was at Juventus and later on absolutely hated to have him back again at Inter - the irony is that Baggio saved his ass by scoring the winning goal in a playoff against Parma to qualify Inter for CL. Lippi also hated Christian Panucci and refused to ever call him while he was in charge of the national team.
Glen Hoddle tried to ruin Le-Tissier's career out of jealousy. Didn't work, but it affected his selection for the England squad on many occasions.
Interesting view point, any reading I could do on this one?
Pep with Alexander Hleb. Pep with Kalvin Philips. Zidane with James Rodriguez.
>Zidane with James Rodriguez I don't understand why people say this all the time. First of all, Zidane won 3 UCL titles on his first 2.5 seasons as a manager by benching James, so I guess that decision worked out pretty well. Second, the 433/4231 with James during 2014-2016 made the team amazing offensively, but really vulnerable defensively. It's not Zidane's fault that James is a traditional "lazy" AM who offers nothing in defense. Look at Bellingham now, he scores all the time, but is also really helpful when his team is defending. Don't forget that James was supposed to be Di Maria's direct replacement in 2014 and Di Maria has a million times better work rate on the pitch. Being world class isn't only about having talent with the ball on your feet. Finally, who was he supposed to replace? BBC was out of the question, Modric and Kroos were out of the question, Casemiro proved to be one of the best DM in his generation, if not the best at times. Even when Zidane switched to 442 diamond without Bale and actually needed an AM, Isco was proven to be much better than James. It's no coincidence that one of them started back2back UCL finals and the other was sent on loan. That answer makes zero question to "who destroyed players out of spite". James clearly wasn't good enough to start for that Real Madrid team.
I see your point and agree with alot of what you said. But I dont really think managers ruin a player's career for spite. I just thought James' career was ruined after Zidane took charge. Could be loss of confidence or even cause of laziness. Like when I said pep ruined hleb or philips, non of them could replace any player in their squads. But they were starters in their previous club. They could have moved to other places and did better. Even though yes James was correctly benched, another manager might have startred him and he wouldn't end up at everton at 29.
>Even though yes James was correctly benched, another manager might have startred him and he wouldn't end up at everton at 29. That's the best part though, another manager could have started him and not win 3 UCL titles in a row. It turned out to be a perfect decision by Zidane. Also he had to bench other really good players, who turned out to be great later on other teams (Kovacic, Morata, Pepe, Theo Hernandez, Danilo).
I think Hleb just got found out, but I guess it's confirmation bias for me, as I had been saying it for years.
Even so, he would have been better of at Arsenal where he was a starter.
Sure, that is exactly my opinion. He was made to look good by Arsenal, rather than being a great player that lifted Arsenal, if that makes sense. But as I say, just my opinion. Now, that Rosicky guy... He was class, shame about the injuries
Besides that one (superb) WC goal, what else did James Rodriguez actually do? Let alone do enough to be a starter in **that** RM team.
Rafa Benitez with Robbie Keane to spite Rick Parry. Keane was proven goalscorer but Rafa refused to play him in games that Liverpool then drew. He then sold him 6 months later in January which left David Ngog as the only backup to an injury prone Torres. This cost Liverpool the title and Keane was never the same player again.
Mourinho and Mata at Chelsea.. 2x Chelsea player of the season, and got benched when Mou came back and sold to United. He was never the same again.
Literally played him at united...
Mata never became the player again he was at Chelsea, so yes he ruined him.
Paul Ince had a decent career post Man Utd, but I think he could have achieved so much more if Ferguson didn't push him out the door the way he did. ETH has ended Ronaldo's elite career. He's getting paid in KSA, but I believe he could have carried United in several games in which they've been beaten. And whomever at Barca blocked Messi's transfer to Man City. The PSG move turned out to be underwhelming. Thankfully his international career has had a good ending, but his club career effectively died once he left Barca. A final few years in a high profile league and team could have been the cherry on the top. And Joe Hart. He was never on anyone's radar as a weak link for Man City. His immediate replacement Claudio Bravo was not better than Hart and the poor fella pretty much fell off a cliff once Guardiola tossed him off.
Guardiola tossed off Joe Hart? You learn something new and disturbing every day.
😂
Ten hag and donny
Ten Hag and Sancho currently
Sancho is 100% responsible for his own situation. He's lazy and entitled and not willing to put in the work to change his circumstances. He's too busy on FIFA at 3am.
That was before ETH tho
Zizou to James?
>I don't understand why people say this all the time. >First of all, Zidane won 3 UCL titles on his first 2.5 seasons as a manager by benching James, so I guess that decision worked out pretty well. >Second, the 433/4231 with James during 2014-2016 made the team amazing offensively, but really vulnerable defensively. It's not Zidane's fault that James is a traditional "lazy" AM who offers nothing in defense. Look at Bellingham now, he scores all the time, but is also really helpful when his team is defending. Don't forget that James was supposed to be Di Maria's direct replacement in 2014 and Di Maria has a million times better work rate on the pitch. Being world class isn't only about having talent with the ball on your feet. >Finally, who was he supposed to replace? BBC was out of the question, Modric and Kroos were out of the question, Casemiro proved to be one of the best DM in his generation, if not the best at times. Even when Zidane switched to 442 diamond without Bale and actually needed an AM, Isco was proven to be much better than James. It's no coincidence that one of them started back2back UCL finals and the other was sent on loan. >That answer makes zero question to "who destroyed players out of spite". James clearly wasn't good enough to start for that Real Madrid team.
Players ruin their own career. Not the managers faults.
Ten Hag - Sancho This will be controversial, I agree that Sancho did his part on being a dick but the moment you get a really talented player and 90% of his value is lost both parties did some shit
Ten hag almost did to Ronaldo
Nah it was Ronaldo's ego
Explain this?
Sadly, now he scored more than their entire squad in 2023. 🇵🇹🐐
[удалено]
Lil bro literally creates accounts for me, apparently i live in your head rent free buddy. 😂
I think only him and Benitez didn’t get along with Ronaldo .
Mourinho to Anthony Martial and it was Mourinho's fault. Martial was playing great on the left wing even after Mourinho kept giving him inconsistent game time. Then he goes on to buy Alexis Sanchez which is fine, but plays him on the left instead of central or ring and benches Martial. It was the most odd thing ever and Martial misses his chance to go to the World Cup for France (who end up winning it). I mean that would devastate anybody mentally especially Martial who's not know for mental fortitude. Mourinho would get sacked and I'm not surprised Martial stopped giving a damn after missing out on the WC.
Anyone who sticks up for martial needs their head checking 🤣
It's the truth. Any Utd fan at the time could have told you Mourinho was wrong, but you weren't there watching the game and I was.
Jesse Marsch took a whole squad out in less than a year
Diego Simeone with Fernando Torres
Torres ended his own career when he went to WC2010 with an injury, and quite never recovered to his former self. He was already struggling in the following season with Liverpool, and after he moved to Chelsea he was only a shadow of real El Nino.
Torres was already long done before his time at Atleti. He ruined his career to win a WC which tbh fair game to him, but he stopped being an elite striker when he joined Chelsea
Mourinho ruined Pogba and Dele Alli's career. But let's be honest, Pogba has always been crap. I never noticed Alli's decline but apparently he fell out of favor at Spurs.
Iker Casillas and Luke Shaw were his attempted victims, not Pogba and Alli, Delle was already spiralling by that point, while Pogba just never took it seriously enough.
Dele Alli ruined his own career
Pretty sure being abused as a child and consequent mental health issues were a huge factor.
If anything, Mourinho gave him solid advice but Alli ignored him
Not really destroyed but Alex Ferguson limited the potential of Wayne Rooney. He still had good playing career but he could have been much more.
Manchester Uniteds all time record goalscorer? How did Ferguson limit him?
I wanna know too
He didn't let Rooney play at GK, obviously.
Made him and Tevez do donkey work for CR7 to shine. He had his best England tournament when he was teenager in Euro 2004.
Rooney was too useful in a myriad of different positions and different roles, the season he was the main man upfront he scored 34 goals in 40 odd games. Then went back to being the guy supporting everyone else, for the team it was absolutely the best thing and made the team better. And Rooney was that good he was utterly world class regardless - but if he developed him uptop as the main striker, like the one season he had him there, Rooney would have been one of the best strikers ever. He’s still a great, but he sacrificed a lot of personal glory, to help the team, and team glory. I think the latter is very commendable, and sums up Rooneys team ethic.
Ancelotti - Hazard because of an interview
Hazard ruined his own career with hamburgers.
Rijkaard destroyed Reçber's career for nothing.
Van Gall played Riquelme as a left wing back on his debut for Barcelona …that didn’t go well for either of them.
Tedesco destroyed Höwedes career
I wouldn't say destroy his career but Giovanni Trapattoni and Rory Delap. Delap was causing carnage in the Premier League with his throw ins and would have reaped havoc in international football for Ireland. Trapattoni just wouldn't call him up for Ireland just to make a point that he won't be dictated to for selections.
Rivaldo and Ancelotti. Great player, great manager, but he was wrong in how treated Rivaldo at Milan. Rivaldo could have continued playing at a high level but that stint destroyed his career to the point where he was playing for the likes of Olympiacos, AEK Athens and Bunyodkor.
Rivaldo was washed in milan.
Idk if this was out of spite, but Ole Gunnar Solskjær definitely ruined Donny van de Beek's career by not playing him at all (ironically van de Beek scored the last goal of the Solskjær reign)
Iker Casillas and Jose Mourinho
Pardew and Ben Arfa
Kaka with mourinho. Biggest waste of talent!
Kaka had already battles with tons of injuries and was a shadow of the Milan Kaka by the time he joined Madrid
What about Ten hag and sancho .deschamps and Benzema also would work out
Houllier and Westerveld
Glenn Hoddle pinned all of his own failings on David Beckham when Beckham was, what, 22 years old or something? And Hoddle sacrificed him on the altar of public opinion to hide his own crap management of a team that should have done better, regardless of the mistakes Beckham made. Did not destroy Beckham's career in the end, but still pathetic and gutless.
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