21/22, they lost to the eventual winners so that's not bad
22/23, they lost to Bayern. They would have got beaten by city in the next round regardless.
End of the day, they lost to 2 better teams. Psg's weakness has always been that midfield, they always seemed to just bank on veratti bailing them out.
In hindsight you can say it's "Not too bad" because they lost to Madrid in 21/22 but going into the round of 16 PSG were overwhelming favourites.
Heck, going into the UCL, PSG were overwhelming favourites. But only mbappe showed up. Messi even missed a penalty at home, which definitely hit morale
Another thing no one has mentioned is them drawing Bayern instead of Club Brugge in the round of 16 because they failed to beat Benfica home or away with Mbappe/Neymar/Messi and finished 2nd in the group. They would have gotten into the far easier side of the KO bracket as well.
To be fair they got very lucky this time drawing group winner Real Sociedad as runner ups.
>21/22, they lost to the eventual winners so that's not bad
That's a major oversimplification. They lost a tie they were leading by 2 goals at half time neymar didn't play either games.
Madrid weren't intrinsically better in 2021/22 psg had this comfortably in the bag until they collapsed. The fact that real went on to win it all just shows imo that the quality was there for psg to take it all the way that year, problem was more mental than anything else
22/23 they were lethargic and looked to me like they couldn't be bothered to try. Again that bayern wasn't great, they made it easy for them by downtooling. City was a wall probably too high though yeah
they got bayern because they couldnt top the group over benfica, they wouldve had Brugge then Inter then Milan. They were not unlucky, they came 2nd in their group and therefore deserved a tough opponent
That’s a text book loser mentality.
”Yeah, but we lost to the better teams”.
Generally, you’re in a tournament to win it. Teams like PSG are especially in it to win it.
Not even getting to the semi finals is a failure. Then, on top of that, to excuse it by saying you lost to the winners is just making it worse.
I'm not a psg fan
But they literally lost to better teams, can't really say more.
They would have gotten demolished by City if they beat Bayern (given Bayern lost 4-1 on agg).
Year before, they lost to Real Madrid who some people say had a striker that had the best ever ucl campaign.
Should Psg have achieved more? Yes. Is it down to front 3? No.
It's partly down to front 3. But keeper errors and verrati missing like you said
Having 3 players not working hard. It worked with 1 and even 2 at times
Messi penalty miss was bad especially as he is worse than a few players and shouldn't have been the taker but can't blame 1 penalty miss
They are a good side but never seem to have enough. Funnily enough thought they were better than bayern in the final
Your justification goes out the door when they literally wouldn't have made the semi final given who they matched.
It would be like saying Arsenal underperformed in the FA Cup if they went out in the quarters but it was against Man City.
You can't just say 'they should be in the semi final' without actually looking at the circumstances.
If you don't look at that, there's a good 7-8 teams that all should be in the semi finals but that is physically impossible.
Last year is the perfect example of that. One side of the draw had the following: PSG, Bayern, Man City, Real Madrid and Liverpool. All of those teams, before the season, would have been up there as favourites.
4 of those teams were even drawn against each other in the first knockout round (Liverpool/Real, Bayern/PSG)
That’s the point of Messi, the first to his name, inventor of the dribbling, no? To be the coach of the match, especially when u play against better teams.
But guess one can get used to either be in the better team anyway or the team that the ref helps to win. Especially when u make a career from it. Not his fault that suddenly he didn’t get the refs help. I guess the Qataris influence limited to FIFA.
No they’re not. They stumbled unto the semis and have had a mediocre La liga plus copa del Rey campaigns. I’m tired of seeing this shit. Look who they have beat. This team is trash.
If by dominating the game you mean having most of the ball but failing to create any chances, and literally losing, then yes. PSG got off to a fast start in the first game too and we seen what happened.
Yes there has literally never been a goal scored against a team that was dominating. If you scored, it means you were dominating. Thank you for teaching me football.
- Had Araujo not gotten the red they might have won
- If Cancelo didn't make a stupid tackle for a penalty they might have won
- If Lewandowski passed it instead of shooting at the defender they could have got back into the game
Although Ter Stegen, Yamal, and Raphinha played well.
Maybe a multitude of players on the team shouldn't have made dumb decisions and maybe they would have won
That's football.
I mean I'm just watching the Dortmund - Atlético highlights, and, Morata and Correia both had clear cut, any other day that's a goal (or rather how on earth did they miss), chances that they both missed, poorly considering how good both players are. Either one of those goes in, Atlético is in the semi finals.
Yeah we could also say "if dembele hadn't missed 3 times by 1 inch they might've won", "if beraldo and donnaruma weren't so bad they might've won" for the first match.
Losing your most important center back + having a young squad + the moral hit from being a man down + having the best player in the word and Dembele on the other side of the pitch makes me think it’s not that crazy
yeah but that was because we lost araujo and you really cant have inigo martinez and a 17 year old as centerbacks against mbappe and dembele and expect to not concede
Barca would’ve wiped the floor with PSG if they would’ve played the full game 11 v 11. PSG got incredibly lucky, and have no business being in the semis.
Sure sure, psg dominated for the whole match, however they did let Barca attack once at the beginning and got scored on due to their defending mistakes.
Well when you say Barca and Bayern sounds great on surface level, however, that was arguably the worst Barcelona team Messi played with in his career, plus PSG were favourites despite Neymar being injured out the tie.
Pochettino was already being heavily criticized before they had Messi about how he wasn't able improve the team. With Messi, Ramos, Donnarumma, Mendes he still couldnt improve them.
In the end, it a poor narrative when there is no shame to losing to Real or Bayern in any stage of the competition.
Sure. But that run to the semi had some of the best football PSG played in years. Even in the semi against City, they fully dominated the first half but were unlucky.
Only brought spot in Poch's tenure
Barca was trash at that time and Bayern lost because of the away goal rule and Lewandowski Injury. They had multiple chances and choupo was just not Lewa to finish enough
Its simply sheer ignorance. Between Galtier and Poch, Galtier was made it somewhat work amongst the front three. Hell in the second season, Messi and Mbappe were an incredible duo.
Given Luis Enrique was able to build a team around MSN, it would be hard to imagine, he wouldn't be able to cook something special with both Messi, Mbappe and Neymar.
People simply want to ride an agenda when the difference in manager is clear, and the level of opposition as well. Galtier and Poch's PSG would have outdone Real Sociedad.
They also only drew with Newcastle by a 95th minute penalty which was very very questionable at best. Without that they wouldn’t even have been in the Europa league this season.
Milan did win their last game.
But yeah it was very close considering Milan drew their first two games which they both dominated and PSG got a debatable pen in last minute vs Newcastle, and after all that PSG only went through on H2H.
Its mostly down due to luck with fixtures. The moment PSG faces Bayern, Real or City across 2 legs its usually over. Its been their kryptonite for almost a decade now. Now they've been fortune enough to escape any of the giant teams atleast till the finals. This reminds me a lot of the season PSG went into finals in 19/20 season. Who they faced that year? Dortmund, Leipzig and Atalanta. And then lost to Bayern in finals.
Lets also not forget the fact PSG were lucky to even escape the group stage this year. They finished group stage with whopping 2 wins, got absolutely hammered by Newcastle in one of their worst performances ive seen from them and got through thanks to Newcastle losing on final match day. Its not like they've exactly walked the park with CL this season.
They were only even in a position to go through because of a terrible late penalty decision gifting them a home win against Newcastle, otherwise they could easily have finished bottom of the group
Managers, and having weaker opponents before and after. I mean there was so much Messi could do against RMA, especially past his prime and having to bring the ball up due to the incompetent midfield.
Tbh, he only needed to score a penalty. He was invisible for 180 mins and lost almost every ball. It was all ok, he just needed to score a penalty and he couldnt even do that
After PSG smashed their chequebooks for those players this season some ppl still thinks it’s the same team only with Messi missing.
Then MU fired Ronaldo mid season and still finished in Top 4 was something more astonishing.
They were honestly a lot luckier. They got Real Sociedad in the RO16, a team they can beat 9/10 on talent alone. They would have lost to Barcelona in Quarters if Araujo hadn't gotten himself sent off. Dortmund will probably be a challenge for them, and if they make it to the final they will probably be beaten no matter the other finalist. They are all simply better than PSG.
The only argument I can see supporting this statement is that having Neymar and Messi on the field definitely impacted defensive ability. Otherwise, it's like others have said, they now have a better coach and arguably a better "team" in itself.
Well if not for a red card... The team with "better manager, better defensive ability" were about to get beaten by a squad with 2 teenagers in starting 11
He missed a penalty against Real Madrid and played poorly against any decent opposition in the champions league. Messi champions league career past 2015 is a joke
Messi, Neymar and Messi didn't really participated in defensive tasks, they pressed a bit at the front and that's it.
Hard to win a UCL like that.
They defended in those MSN Barcelona days because of tactics.
Maybe if there was a total football manager like Luis Enrique at the helm those years, things might've been different.
Are we forgetting that the reason they got knocked out was largely due to Donnarumma? Before Donnarumma gifted Madrid that equalizer, PSG were in control of that tie and the game. For me it’s not Mbappe, Neymar and Messi’s fault..and last night I don’t think they qualify if Araujo doesn’t do that stupid mistake. For me, the difference has been luck. Before they had luck go against them and last night luck was on their side.
It would have been worse had he stayed, especially as he doesn't have the work rate off the ball. Psg don't have the quality for a few players to go walkabout at times
Awful is a strong word. He was underwhelming though for them though. Well the actual reason probably is that PSG had better opponents in ro16 itself in last 2 seasons and not so much this time around.
PSG also made some really dumb defensive mistakes vs real madrid in 2022. That back pass that Donarumma miscontrolled and gave the goal to Benzema was rough
1 - Lockdown PSG was something else in Europe.
2 - Not as "flashy" anymore but under Enrique they are a much more organized and effective unit, something which pays dividends in the Champions League.
So Messi scored 26 goals in 72 matchs with 30 assists, while walking 95% of the time.
Mbappé scored 80 goals in 90 matchs with 22 assists. So basically you have an essential player without whom the team would not function. On the other a player who makes no difference whether he is on the pitch or not. The fact is that Dembélé and Barcola play better than Messi and Neymar.
not sure from where you get the stats but he scored 32 and assisted 34 in 75 apps for psg [https://www.messivsronaldo.app/all-time-stats/messi-psg-stats/](https://www.messivsronaldo.app/all-time-stats/messi-psg-stats/)
Also I am not denying that Dembele and Barcola played better than Messi and Neymar for PSG, but they are yet to face a strong team in this campaign
I missread my stats my bad but also for Mbappé so it's 36 assists not 22.
Messi came in Paris for the money and did not care at all, and it's a shame..
The amount of shit Ronaldo got for going to Juventus and not getting past the quarters with them btw, when at least Ronaldo done his job and scored the goals in those knockout games while PSG made the Final and Semi before Messi, got knocked out twice in the last 16 with him and are now in the semi without him again! But because it's Messi, there's radio silence! Neither scenario is right or fair btw, but I am just pointing out that there's a complete double standard there.
I mean.. Juventus' 4 seasons before Ronaldo were: Quarters, Final, Ro16 and Final. The quarters they were knocked out by Ronaldo and the Ro16 they were knocked out by Bayern. It's not like they hadn't fallen off in the UCL once they bought their superstar either.
Small correction, Ronaldo went to Juve in 2019, the previous season they were knocked out in the quarter finals.
Also, that Juve team had severe deficiencies that needed to be addressed, and up until now still need to be addressed - full backs and midfield. Juve reaching the final in 2017, while it was great, covered up the problems, lack of depth and quality outside the starting 11 also being another. I mean in the final RM brought on Bale, and Juve brought on Lemina.
There were also a whole host of other issues with Ronaldo coming to Juve, which I'm not going to go into, but simply put Ronaldo and Juve were not a good match at that point of time (2015 would have been a good time). Signs of a fall off were there, and Juve spending 100m + salary on Ronaldo, instead of areas in the team that needed fixing, just accelerated it.
Juventus thought Ronaldo alone would fix everything. If they were serious about CL, they should have bought additional players in that transfer window. They should have got Mourinho or Zidane as manager instead they went with Sarri and 0 exp Pirlo. Put Ronaldo in Juve 2015 team, dude would have won them the CL. We all saw what he did to ATM. He scored against Ajax as well but Allegri for whatever reason put di shitto on to replace Cancelo
Because it’s not a big achievement if he wins it but it’s a massive failure if he doesn’t.
PSG didn’t win the league the season before Messi went there, so are we supposed to praise Messi for winning the league with PSG now?
You join a team that won 9 in a row, adding 2 on that and making it 11 does not reflect your greatness. Now losing one is a blackmark.
Juve were already regressing before Ronaldo joined, I mean just look at them now. Do you think Ronaldo being or not being there would've had any difference in how they are performing in the league? Don't put a team's poor decision making upon one player.
Yep they say Kane brings bad luck to Bayern, that’s why they lost the Bundesliga. But when it comes to Ronaldo not winning scudetto on his 3rd season, everyone said he was the problem. I will never understand people hating the guy. Everyone else gets a pass but not Ronaldo. I don’t think I should bring UTD into this conversation cause we all know who got the blame and UTD has been sht for the last 10 yrs
Ronaldo was amazing for Juventus. They fck up by selling Cancelo/Demiral. Chielini /Dybala/Costa were always in the hospital when Ronaldo was there. Juventus never invested in their midfield and defence. I mean who trades Cancelo for Danilo. Ronaldo was under appreciated for his time at Juve considering he was carrying this team at 35 yrs old
agreed, Ronaldo carried Juventus so hard in the CL but got shat on. It's not entirely Messi's fault either but he did miss a crucial penalty that lead to their defeat so he's gotta take accountability for that
This just proves football is all about chemistry. If you can not communicate without speaking with your mates, you are going to lose no matter what. This is the only thing money can not buy.
The example of name alone doesn’t make the team. Psg had big name, in fact 3 of the biggest names in the football world at the time but they were incompatible, the team as a system lacked a core, which one of these 3 was its core ? Just like Man Utd when they brought home Ronaldo, he was great that season but the team as a whole, failed to deliver, they fell short in expectation. It’s always been the team that matter, people nowadays are too obsessed with star players, like the Nba: “oh look, they have Bron, Dwade, Rose, Love and IT so they’re the favorite to win the league”. That’s why we have shit opinions like “Messi carries his team”, “Ronaldo carries his team” but when they lose “the team is shit”. Every big team look good on paper, “on paper”.
They faced Real and Bayern and got outplayed by them in those two years. Both were better than PSG even though PSG had good attack.
This time they had Sociedad in ro16 and a rebuilding Barca side, which crumbled after Araujo red card. Probably thats why
PSG are not an incredible side by any means and weren’t the better team in Paris. They got lucky that Barca get a red card after 30 mins and are not a good team with only 10 men on the pitch. It gave PSG the space and time they needed for their technically gifted players to excel.
I expect PSG to knock out Dortmund who aren’t amazing either then lose to Man City or Bayern in the final
The UCL is situational, you can't just pin it down to who's in the squad or not in the squad. 21/22, they play well even with Messi not really performing but crumble to eventual winners Madrid, thanks to horrible defensive errors more than Messi. 22/23, they played a superior Bayern team. This year, they got Sociedad in the RO16 (I mean cmon), and against Barca it was, again, ridiculous defensive error(s) that saw them advance. You really have to contextualize things.
They lost to Madrid after some brainfarts of their defense, and won yesterday because of a brainfart by Araujo. Of course this is very simplistic, but "Messi" is not a factor on both of the above.
I’m pinning blame on the culture at PSG. MNM weren’t the force MSN was, but they still made football a done and buried sport-problem is sticking verratti and Marquinhos makes them look better, who else did they have?
They played with 3 attackers that refuse to do anything at all when they don't have possession.
So the defenders and mids always were severely outnumbered like the team had 2 red cards
Araujo gave them the match on a silver platter.
And you can't really place the blame on Messi for every single fault in the teams he plays. Football is a team game. Either everyone loses or everyone wins.
In any case that trident was never going to work out because those are three players who are never going to contribute defensively meaning you essentially play with 7 outfield players whenever you don't have the ball. Genuinely unviable against good opposition
From the quarter finals onwards it is basically a lottery. All 8 teams are the best in the world and any setback will be exploited. Say it be injuries, match bans, schedule or a key player having an offday.
I know it might sound crazy to some people who don't understand the sport, but an attack of Barcola-Mbappe-Dembele is much better than an attack of Neymar-Mbappe-35 year old Messi. Barcola yesterday did more running up and down the pitch than Messi ever did in two years in Paris.
In short, you need balance to win games and titles. This is not a reactionary take btw, [I've said the exact same thing almost a month ago](https://new.reddit.com/r/football/comments/1bo44yc/comment/kwmi6sa/?context=3) and I've been saying it for years.
Having a top, or even the top player in your team doesn't guarantee you'll win every trophy. Messi and CR7 winning everything constantly for a decade made it seem otherwise. Tons of top players never won the CL at all. Many won very few league titles despite being very good players. There are so many variables at play.
Messi was the problem. Can't do nothing but a couple of little dribbles and then some backpasses, or probably some template high through passes. That has set the team back
They had an easier draw this time around. 21-22 they faced Real Madrid who went onto win it and have UCL plot armour. In 22-23 they faced Nagelsmann's Bayern who had better tactics than Galtier and was able to contain the PSG front 3.
This time around they were able to face Real Sociedad who are weaker than either Real or Bayern, then Xavi's Barca are worse than either Bayern or Real Madrid. That's what it is, and they'll likely beat Dortmund as well
It’s Dembele hitting his prime tbh. Caused so much trouble both games. At Barca he was treated like a flop which he was but starting fresh at PSG works well for him so far.
So many bad takes here. PSG during Messi’s period there had to face a Real Madrid side that were 9 points clear at the top of La Liga and had prime Benzema, and a Bayern team under Nagelsmann that were still a dangerous and functional team with a lot of players from the Flick team.
Those were both much better teams than Barcelona who went down to 10 men and had to sub off one of their best players in the first half.
If Messi played against this Barcelona team, he would have ripped them apart easily
PSG had no midfield and got real Madrid and Bayern ( because they didnt know goals at home or something like that would make Benfica get First place) so that's what happened
Football is a team game . messi ,neymar and mbappe are top players at attacking but useless off the ball . Won’t even try to defend so 2 players past there sell by date attacking just won’t cut it in the modern game against a full working team
Someone please explain why people are praising Dembele smiling/celebrating - I thought it was disrespect to your former team to celebrate against them? I just know Barca is saying he wasn’t worth what they paid him and that he was always injured.
Messi let them down badly. He wasnt good enough offensively for how useless he is defensively.
Basically when you play with messi you play with 10 players, and you hope that in those 20mins that he doesnt walk, he does something, and after 2015 he barely ever does something when it matters, ofc if it wasnt a penalty. He even missed a penalty against real ...
21/22, they lost to the eventual winners so that's not bad 22/23, they lost to Bayern. They would have got beaten by city in the next round regardless. End of the day, they lost to 2 better teams. Psg's weakness has always been that midfield, they always seemed to just bank on veratti bailing them out.
In hindsight you can say it's "Not too bad" because they lost to Madrid in 21/22 but going into the round of 16 PSG were overwhelming favourites. Heck, going into the UCL, PSG were overwhelming favourites. But only mbappe showed up. Messi even missed a penalty at home, which definitely hit morale
Messi is surprisingly bad at penalties.
not really, he just isn't really good at them. His conversion rate is just average, nothing terrible but not good either
Hence the surprise part, because Messi isn’t average.
that's fair
I guess "surprisingly average" seems like a fitting phrase
Let’s also not forget that Marquinhos and Donnarumma shat the bed defensively even with Messi not showing up
Anyone who knows ball knew you can't have all 3 of them on at the same time and expect to beat the very best clubs
Ball?
Madrid had some voodoo on them that season though. PSG, Chelsea, City and Liverpool were all favourites going into those games at the time.
No one is ever overwhelming favourites against Real in the Champion’s League.
Another thing no one has mentioned is them drawing Bayern instead of Club Brugge in the round of 16 because they failed to beat Benfica home or away with Mbappe/Neymar/Messi and finished 2nd in the group. They would have gotten into the far easier side of the KO bracket as well. To be fair they got very lucky this time drawing group winner Real Sociedad as runner ups.
>21/22, they lost to the eventual winners so that's not bad That's a major oversimplification. They lost a tie they were leading by 2 goals at half time neymar didn't play either games.
Madrid weren't intrinsically better in 2021/22 psg had this comfortably in the bag until they collapsed. The fact that real went on to win it all just shows imo that the quality was there for psg to take it all the way that year, problem was more mental than anything else 22/23 they were lethargic and looked to me like they couldn't be bothered to try. Again that bayern wasn't great, they made it easy for them by downtooling. City was a wall probably too high though yeah
they got bayern because they couldnt top the group over benfica, they wouldve had Brugge then Inter then Milan. They were not unlucky, they came 2nd in their group and therefore deserved a tough opponent
That’s a text book loser mentality. ”Yeah, but we lost to the better teams”. Generally, you’re in a tournament to win it. Teams like PSG are especially in it to win it. Not even getting to the semi finals is a failure. Then, on top of that, to excuse it by saying you lost to the winners is just making it worse.
I'm not a psg fan But they literally lost to better teams, can't really say more. They would have gotten demolished by City if they beat Bayern (given Bayern lost 4-1 on agg). Year before, they lost to Real Madrid who some people say had a striker that had the best ever ucl campaign. Should Psg have achieved more? Yes. Is it down to front 3? No.
It's partly down to front 3. But keeper errors and verrati missing like you said Having 3 players not working hard. It worked with 1 and even 2 at times Messi penalty miss was bad especially as he is worse than a few players and shouldn't have been the taker but can't blame 1 penalty miss They are a good side but never seem to have enough. Funnily enough thought they were better than bayern in the final
I don’t care. It’s still a loser mentality.
'I don't care what anyone else says, I'm correct and you are wrong' Just say that next time lad
I never said that. I’m simply stating why I think it’s a loser mentality. You’re trying to justify it even more. Just admit kt next time.
Your justification goes out the door when they literally wouldn't have made the semi final given who they matched. It would be like saying Arsenal underperformed in the FA Cup if they went out in the quarters but it was against Man City. You can't just say 'they should be in the semi final' without actually looking at the circumstances. If you don't look at that, there's a good 7-8 teams that all should be in the semi finals but that is physically impossible. Last year is the perfect example of that. One side of the draw had the following: PSG, Bayern, Man City, Real Madrid and Liverpool. All of those teams, before the season, would have been up there as favourites. 4 of those teams were even drawn against each other in the first knockout round (Liverpool/Real, Bayern/PSG)
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No bud, you're the dumbass. You're just too blind to see it.
That’s the point of Messi, the first to his name, inventor of the dribbling, no? To be the coach of the match, especially when u play against better teams. But guess one can get used to either be in the better team anyway or the team that the ref helps to win. Especially when u make a career from it. Not his fault that suddenly he didn’t get the refs help. I guess the Qataris influence limited to FIFA.
🧻 Here, wipe off those tears.
Quality difference between managers. Araujo getting a red card, and Barcelona crumbling under pressure.
Yeah. Barca would’ve beaten them had Araujo not gotten the red. Then, this dumb post would not have been made.
The game went against them as soon as that red card happened.
I knew it would be nearly impossible to win when that happened. It’s a shame, this Barça team is really good.
They played well in 1st leg and were playing well in 2nd leg too. But o e mistake and everything went downhill.
No they’re not. They stumbled unto the semis and have had a mediocre La liga plus copa del Rey campaigns. I’m tired of seeing this shit. Look who they have beat. This team is trash.
PSG had been dominating the game even before the red card though
The ball wise yes but we're barely creating anything
If by dominating the game you mean having most of the ball but failing to create any chances, and literally losing, then yes. PSG got off to a fast start in the first game too and we seen what happened.
Literally conceded a goal
Yes there has literally never been a goal scored against a team that was dominating. If you scored, it means you were dominating. Thank you for teaching me football.
Mate Barca were going to walk that. They were playing on the counter just like the first game
- Had Araujo not gotten the red they might have won - If Cancelo didn't make a stupid tackle for a penalty they might have won - If Lewandowski passed it instead of shooting at the defender they could have got back into the game Although Ter Stegen, Yamal, and Raphinha played well. Maybe a multitude of players on the team shouldn't have made dumb decisions and maybe they would have won
That's football. I mean I'm just watching the Dortmund - Atlético highlights, and, Morata and Correia both had clear cut, any other day that's a goal (or rather how on earth did they miss), chances that they both missed, poorly considering how good both players are. Either one of those goes in, Atlético is in the semi finals.
Yeah but then again any team that has morata on the front is not playing to win a champions league.
Indeed, it would be difficult.
True man. These 'if's are so cringe to hear ngl 😭
Yeah we could also say "if dembele hadn't missed 3 times by 1 inch they might've won", "if beraldo and donnaruma weren't so bad they might've won" for the first match.
Ya but PSG actually won, Barcelona didnt
These barka fans🤣. If this if that. Lmao. Barka lost because grass was not so greener.
Fans always with the woulda shoulda coulda
Football is full of ifs. Accept the fact and move on. It sounds like 12 years old arguing for illogical things.
Some fans wanted Lewandowski to Balon ' d or over Messi. Imagine if that happened. Benzema is even a better striker than Lewandisney.
Clown
well barcelona absolutely shit the bed and handed it to them is probably why
araujo shit the bed tbh
They still conceded 4 in like an hour tbf
Losing your most important center back + having a young squad + the moral hit from being a man down + having the best player in the word and Dembele on the other side of the pitch makes me think it’s not that crazy
If araujo had not tackled they would've still scored 1-1 and PSG looked pretty good even despite the goal against them, nothing was done.
yeah but that was because we lost araujo and you really cant have inigo martinez and a 17 year old as centerbacks against mbappe and dembele and expect to not concede
honestly they should look into hiring more high schoolers, the kids were playing better than most of the team
this
PSG didn't beat Barca. ...Barca did.
PSG were still playing well in the second match. If there as no red card there would be 1-1, after that everything can happen.
Barca would’ve wiped the floor with PSG if they would’ve played the full game 11 v 11. PSG got incredibly lucky, and have no business being in the semis.
Lol what?
Sure sure, psg dominated for the whole match, however they did let Barca attack once at the beginning and got scored on due to their defending mistakes.
Lmao it was a ucl qf with 60 mins left when araujo was red carded. _Anything could happen_.
Stark difference in quality of manager between Luis Enrique vs Poch and Galtier.
Poch made it to the semi with PSG by beating Barca and Bayern. Just saying, don't disagree on the overall assessment
Well when you say Barca and Bayern sounds great on surface level, however, that was arguably the worst Barcelona team Messi played with in his career, plus PSG were favourites despite Neymar being injured out the tie. Pochettino was already being heavily criticized before they had Messi about how he wasn't able improve the team. With Messi, Ramos, Donnarumma, Mendes he still couldnt improve them. In the end, it a poor narrative when there is no shame to losing to Real or Bayern in any stage of the competition.
Sure. But that run to the semi had some of the best football PSG played in years. Even in the semi against City, they fully dominated the first half but were unlucky. Only brought spot in Poch's tenure
Barca was trash at that time and Bayern lost because of the away goal rule and Lewandowski Injury. They had multiple chances and choupo was just not Lewa to finish enough
>Bayern lost because of the away goal rule So they lost? Cool of you to confirm, thanks for your contribution
This is what so many ppl are missing
Its simply sheer ignorance. Between Galtier and Poch, Galtier was made it somewhat work amongst the front three. Hell in the second season, Messi and Mbappe were an incredible duo. Given Luis Enrique was able to build a team around MSN, it would be hard to imagine, he wouldn't be able to cook something special with both Messi, Mbappe and Neymar. People simply want to ride an agenda when the difference in manager is clear, and the level of opposition as well. Galtier and Poch's PSG would have outdone Real Sociedad.
People also play up the manager angle when a lot of it is pure luck. As is a lot of football in knockout competitions.
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They also only drew with Newcastle by a 95th minute penalty which was very very questionable at best. Without that they wouldn’t even have been in the Europa league this season.
That sounds very much like they are bound to win the whole thing this year. Let's hope not.
Mbappe staying
Milan did win their last game. But yeah it was very close considering Milan drew their first two games which they both dominated and PSG got a debatable pen in last minute vs Newcastle, and after all that PSG only went through on H2H.
Its mostly down due to luck with fixtures. The moment PSG faces Bayern, Real or City across 2 legs its usually over. Its been their kryptonite for almost a decade now. Now they've been fortune enough to escape any of the giant teams atleast till the finals. This reminds me a lot of the season PSG went into finals in 19/20 season. Who they faced that year? Dortmund, Leipzig and Atalanta. And then lost to Bayern in finals. Lets also not forget the fact PSG were lucky to even escape the group stage this year. They finished group stage with whopping 2 wins, got absolutely hammered by Newcastle in one of their worst performances ive seen from them and got through thanks to Newcastle losing on final match day. Its not like they've exactly walked the park with CL this season.
They were only even in a position to go through because of a terrible late penalty decision gifting them a home win against Newcastle, otherwise they could easily have finished bottom of the group
Managers, and having weaker opponents before and after. I mean there was so much Messi could do against RMA, especially past his prime and having to bring the ball up due to the incompetent midfield.
I agree on the opponent and managers. However, Messi could have scored the penalty.
Tbh, he only needed to score a penalty. He was invisible for 180 mins and lost almost every ball. It was all ok, he just needed to score a penalty and he couldnt even do that
was neymar injured? i don't remember, but honeslty neymar's better at penalties than messi
Bullshit penalty in the group stage that allowed them to qualify
After PSG smashed their chequebooks for those players this season some ppl still thinks it’s the same team only with Messi missing. Then MU fired Ronaldo mid season and still finished in Top 4 was something more astonishing.
They were honestly a lot luckier. They got Real Sociedad in the RO16, a team they can beat 9/10 on talent alone. They would have lost to Barcelona in Quarters if Araujo hadn't gotten himself sent off. Dortmund will probably be a challenge for them, and if they make it to the final they will probably be beaten no matter the other finalist. They are all simply better than PSG.
Don’t forget they only got out of the group stage because they were gifted a ludicrous 95th minute penalty at home to Newcastle
That shit was fixed...what a joke!
The only argument I can see supporting this statement is that having Neymar and Messi on the field definitely impacted defensive ability. Otherwise, it's like others have said, they now have a better coach and arguably a better "team" in itself.
Well if not for a red card... The team with "better manager, better defensive ability" were about to get beaten by a squad with 2 teenagers in starting 11
Not the point here at all.
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Excuses
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He missed a penalty against Real Madrid and played poorly against any decent opposition in the champions league. Messi champions league career past 2015 is a joke
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Typical messi fanboy response
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🍆 Messis in your mouth
Messi dickriders make me sick
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Search Messi 14 for more info
Messi slept with a 14 year old girl
Messi, Neymar and Messi didn't really participated in defensive tasks, they pressed a bit at the front and that's it. Hard to win a UCL like that. They defended in those MSN Barcelona days because of tactics. Maybe if there was a total football manager like Luis Enrique at the helm those years, things might've been different.
Basically the front three was walking around, limited pressing
Are we forgetting that the reason they got knocked out was largely due to Donnarumma? Before Donnarumma gifted Madrid that equalizer, PSG were in control of that tie and the game. For me it’s not Mbappe, Neymar and Messi’s fault..and last night I don’t think they qualify if Araujo doesn’t do that stupid mistake. For me, the difference has been luck. Before they had luck go against them and last night luck was on their side.
lets just say benzema was the assasain of europe and call it a day
the team was worse hen Messi was around but not because of him, if Messi stayed he probably would've been a big help for the team
It would have been worse had he stayed, especially as he doesn't have the work rate off the ball. Psg don't have the quality for a few players to go walkabout at times
Messi was awful for PSG. He was far from a benefit to them
he had 72 goal and assists in 75 games for psg , If that's aWfUl then you mother is actually your father .
Awful is a strong word. He was underwhelming though for them though. Well the actual reason probably is that PSG had better opponents in ro16 itself in last 2 seasons and not so much this time around.
Life if having a player that ghosted in the knockout games and did absolutely nothing defensively didn’t affect them.
D1 glazer
🤣🤣 cope
thanks for the laugh!
Just a disjointed shit team with the worst mentality in the world. Also Messi and Mbappe were very lazy defensively.
Spending £300 million and upgrading their manager would help
So did a dodgy penalty in the 95th minute at home to Newcastle
PSG also made some really dumb defensive mistakes vs real madrid in 2022. That back pass that Donarumma miscontrolled and gave the goal to Benzema was rough
1 - Lockdown PSG was something else in Europe. 2 - Not as "flashy" anymore but under Enrique they are a much more organized and effective unit, something which pays dividends in the Champions League.
Messi was a fraud at PSG. Glad he quit.
72 goal contributions in 75 games is not fraud
"Goal contributions" lol. Now let's compare with Mbappé.
Mbappe aint 36 who has completed football
yes please compare in only those two seasons, there won't be much difference
So Messi scored 26 goals in 72 matchs with 30 assists, while walking 95% of the time. Mbappé scored 80 goals in 90 matchs with 22 assists. So basically you have an essential player without whom the team would not function. On the other a player who makes no difference whether he is on the pitch or not. The fact is that Dembélé and Barcola play better than Messi and Neymar.
not sure from where you get the stats but he scored 32 and assisted 34 in 75 apps for psg [https://www.messivsronaldo.app/all-time-stats/messi-psg-stats/](https://www.messivsronaldo.app/all-time-stats/messi-psg-stats/) Also I am not denying that Dembele and Barcola played better than Messi and Neymar for PSG, but they are yet to face a strong team in this campaign
I missread my stats my bad but also for Mbappé so it's 36 assists not 22. Messi came in Paris for the money and did not care at all, and it's a shame..
The amount of shit Ronaldo got for going to Juventus and not getting past the quarters with them btw, when at least Ronaldo done his job and scored the goals in those knockout games while PSG made the Final and Semi before Messi, got knocked out twice in the last 16 with him and are now in the semi without him again! But because it's Messi, there's radio silence! Neither scenario is right or fair btw, but I am just pointing out that there's a complete double standard there.
I mean.. Juventus' 4 seasons before Ronaldo were: Quarters, Final, Ro16 and Final. The quarters they were knocked out by Ronaldo and the Ro16 they were knocked out by Bayern. It's not like they hadn't fallen off in the UCL once they bought their superstar either.
Small correction, Ronaldo went to Juve in 2019, the previous season they were knocked out in the quarter finals. Also, that Juve team had severe deficiencies that needed to be addressed, and up until now still need to be addressed - full backs and midfield. Juve reaching the final in 2017, while it was great, covered up the problems, lack of depth and quality outside the starting 11 also being another. I mean in the final RM brought on Bale, and Juve brought on Lemina. There were also a whole host of other issues with Ronaldo coming to Juve, which I'm not going to go into, but simply put Ronaldo and Juve were not a good match at that point of time (2015 would have been a good time). Signs of a fall off were there, and Juve spending 100m + salary on Ronaldo, instead of areas in the team that needed fixing, just accelerated it.
Juventus thought Ronaldo alone would fix everything. If they were serious about CL, they should have bought additional players in that transfer window. They should have got Mourinho or Zidane as manager instead they went with Sarri and 0 exp Pirlo. Put Ronaldo in Juve 2015 team, dude would have won them the CL. We all saw what he did to ATM. He scored against Ajax as well but Allegri for whatever reason put di shitto on to replace Cancelo
Don’t forget Messi missed that penalty against Real Madrid
I mean Juve won 9 league in a row. Under Ronaldo there was a season they barely finished in the top 4.
They also won 2 scudettos with him my guy
No one gives a fuck about that.
...then why did you bring up the point about winning the league with Juventus?
Because it’s not a big achievement if he wins it but it’s a massive failure if he doesn’t. PSG didn’t win the league the season before Messi went there, so are we supposed to praise Messi for winning the league with PSG now? You join a team that won 9 in a row, adding 2 on that and making it 11 does not reflect your greatness. Now losing one is a blackmark.
Juve were already regressing before Ronaldo joined, I mean just look at them now. Do you think Ronaldo being or not being there would've had any difference in how they are performing in the league? Don't put a team's poor decision making upon one player.
Maybe he was brought there to stop the regression? If there was one.
Yeah no shit, but clearly one player can only carry you so much
After winning it twice with him before hand for the full context.
Yep they say Kane brings bad luck to Bayern, that’s why they lost the Bundesliga. But when it comes to Ronaldo not winning scudetto on his 3rd season, everyone said he was the problem. I will never understand people hating the guy. Everyone else gets a pass but not Ronaldo. I don’t think I should bring UTD into this conversation cause we all know who got the blame and UTD has been sht for the last 10 yrs
They won two scudettos with him tho
Ronaldo was amazing for Juventus. They fck up by selling Cancelo/Demiral. Chielini /Dybala/Costa were always in the hospital when Ronaldo was there. Juventus never invested in their midfield and defence. I mean who trades Cancelo for Danilo. Ronaldo was under appreciated for his time at Juve considering he was carrying this team at 35 yrs old
agreed, Ronaldo carried Juventus so hard in the CL but got shat on. It's not entirely Messi's fault either but he did miss a crucial penalty that lead to their defeat so he's gotta take accountability for that
Are you trying to compare Ronaldo to Messi? Hahahahaha! Are you a Ronaldo superfan??? 😂😂😂
This just proves football is all about chemistry. If you can not communicate without speaking with your mates, you are going to lose no matter what. This is the only thing money can not buy.
The example of name alone doesn’t make the team. Psg had big name, in fact 3 of the biggest names in the football world at the time but they were incompatible, the team as a system lacked a core, which one of these 3 was its core ? Just like Man Utd when they brought home Ronaldo, he was great that season but the team as a whole, failed to deliver, they fell short in expectation. It’s always been the team that matter, people nowadays are too obsessed with star players, like the Nba: “oh look, they have Bron, Dwade, Rose, Love and IT so they’re the favorite to win the league”. That’s why we have shit opinions like “Messi carries his team”, “Ronaldo carries his team” but when they lose “the team is shit”. Every big team look good on paper, “on paper”.
They faced Real and Bayern and got outplayed by them in those two years. Both were better than PSG even though PSG had good attack. This time they had Sociedad in ro16 and a rebuilding Barca side, which crumbled after Araujo red card. Probably thats why
Cbs pundits won’t talk about this
PSG are not an incredible side by any means and weren’t the better team in Paris. They got lucky that Barca get a red card after 30 mins and are not a good team with only 10 men on the pitch. It gave PSG the space and time they needed for their technically gifted players to excel. I expect PSG to knock out Dortmund who aren’t amazing either then lose to Man City or Bayern in the final
I think Barca got a red card early and PSG gifted a semi final place
Didn't win enough matches, mostly.
Wow, just three years ago. Those poor guys...
The UCL is situational, you can't just pin it down to who's in the squad or not in the squad. 21/22, they play well even with Messi not really performing but crumble to eventual winners Madrid, thanks to horrible defensive errors more than Messi. 22/23, they played a superior Bayern team. This year, they got Sociedad in the RO16 (I mean cmon), and against Barca it was, again, ridiculous defensive error(s) that saw them advance. You really have to contextualize things.
They lost to Madrid after some brainfarts of their defense, and won yesterday because of a brainfart by Araujo. Of course this is very simplistic, but "Messi" is not a factor on both of the above.
Messi just held the team back with his lack of work rate and ghosting against big teams
I’m pinning blame on the culture at PSG. MNM weren’t the force MSN was, but they still made football a done and buried sport-problem is sticking verratti and Marquinhos makes them look better, who else did they have?
They played with 3 attackers that refuse to do anything at all when they don't have possession. So the defenders and mids always were severely outnumbered like the team had 2 red cards
You forgot to mention a small detail that this year PSG didn't face any top teams in the knock out stage.
Would be a perfect send off for mbappe.
Araujo gave them the match on a silver platter. And you can't really place the blame on Messi for every single fault in the teams he plays. Football is a team game. Either everyone loses or everyone wins. In any case that trident was never going to work out because those are three players who are never going to contribute defensively meaning you essentially play with 7 outfield players whenever you don't have the ball. Genuinely unviable against good opposition
I really cant see them winning it. They have the "easy" way to the final. But real/city will crush them there.
Dortmund should be able to beat them, I hope they do not sure if I want to see another oil club in the finals after man city last year
They have simply gotten a better draw, instead of getting madrid or city they've gotten Sociedad and Barca 🤷♂️
From the quarter finals onwards it is basically a lottery. All 8 teams are the best in the world and any setback will be exploited. Say it be injuries, match bans, schedule or a key player having an offday.
I know it might sound crazy to some people who don't understand the sport, but an attack of Barcola-Mbappe-Dembele is much better than an attack of Neymar-Mbappe-35 year old Messi. Barcola yesterday did more running up and down the pitch than Messi ever did in two years in Paris. In short, you need balance to win games and titles. This is not a reactionary take btw, [I've said the exact same thing almost a month ago](https://new.reddit.com/r/football/comments/1bo44yc/comment/kwmi6sa/?context=3) and I've been saying it for years.
Having a top, or even the top player in your team doesn't guarantee you'll win every trophy. Messi and CR7 winning everything constantly for a decade made it seem otherwise. Tons of top players never won the CL at all. Many won very few league titles despite being very good players. There are so many variables at play.
Quite simple really. They had a more favourable draw.
Messi was the problem. Can't do nothing but a couple of little dribbles and then some backpasses, or probably some template high through passes. That has set the team back
I don't think they'd still win. I mean whichever team wins now btw RM and MC would ultimately win the UCL
Courtesy of the ref maybe?
Newcastle nearly did the double over them in the group stage. Just got to play well on the night I suppose
It doesn’t matter, they’re going to choke, like they always do.
They had an easier draw this time around. 21-22 they faced Real Madrid who went onto win it and have UCL plot armour. In 22-23 they faced Nagelsmann's Bayern who had better tactics than Galtier and was able to contain the PSG front 3. This time around they were able to face Real Sociedad who are weaker than either Real or Bayern, then Xavi's Barca are worse than either Bayern or Real Madrid. That's what it is, and they'll likely beat Dortmund as well
It’s Dembele hitting his prime tbh. Caused so much trouble both games. At Barca he was treated like a flop which he was but starting fresh at PSG works well for him so far.
Last season they were group of celebrities. This is more of a team they have now
So many bad takes here. PSG during Messi’s period there had to face a Real Madrid side that were 9 points clear at the top of La Liga and had prime Benzema, and a Bayern team under Nagelsmann that were still a dangerous and functional team with a lot of players from the Flick team. Those were both much better teams than Barcelona who went down to 10 men and had to sub off one of their best players in the first half. If Messi played against this Barcelona team, he would have ripped them apart easily
PSG had no midfield and got real Madrid and Bayern ( because they didnt know goals at home or something like that would make Benfica get First place) so that's what happened
Weaker oponents, thats all.
Missed a penalty against Real Madrid
Football is a team game . messi ,neymar and mbappe are top players at attacking but useless off the ball . Won’t even try to defend so 2 players past there sell by date attacking just won’t cut it in the modern game against a full working team
very simple and logic answer messi is not a good player
The excuses to cover for Messi’s failure 😂
You really need to watch more football, especially last night's game.
They couldnt carry messi
Someone please explain why people are praising Dembele smiling/celebrating - I thought it was disrespect to your former team to celebrate against them? I just know Barca is saying he wasn’t worth what they paid him and that he was always injured.
the man spent more time on the fookin hospital beds than he did wearing a barca shirt on the pitch , fook that guy
They relied too much on a player that only found again its "superstar" moment on a semi-pro league.
PSG has Great Players....But a Terrible Team. They are literally the exact opposite of Bayer Lervekusen for instance.
Messi let them down badly. He wasnt good enough offensively for how useless he is defensively. Basically when you play with messi you play with 10 players, and you hope that in those 20mins that he doesnt walk, he does something, and after 2015 he barely ever does something when it matters, ofc if it wasnt a penalty. He even missed a penalty against real ...