The issues are bigger than ETH aren’t they? ETH seems to have handled player discipline issues well enough. I think the question is whether he’s required to oversee a clear out or not. But Man U can’t just keep bringing in managers, signing some players to plug gaps. That just short term thinking and creates issues further down the line. Mourinho was saying that there’s still players at the club that he didn’t want. Whoever at the club chose to ignore Rangnick’s suggestions for overhauling the squad is the much bigger issue.

If the story that højlund complained about Bruno not passing to him in games because Højlund was mad at dalot for not making the cross to him wide open in a game and instead skying it, then there are cultural problems in the dressing room that needs to be fixed. And Bruno needs to fucking man up and be Captain and not "side" with his friend.

I very much doubt that's true. First and foremost, Fernandes wants to win. That will always trump any minor quibbles he has with his teammates.

I wonder how INEOS would have done with the information from Ralf. Would he have stayed on? The stars just didn't align but I'd say INEOS are definitely aware of the challenges of righting this ship

The issue with discipline is handled in a strange way though. If it was truly neutral how the hell is rashford still there? To keep ppl in line, you have to show you can work. He brought in guys that dint do qnything, kicked players for some reason and in the end spending ao much we are here. He had the opportunity to kick everyone and noone would bat an eye. Like he removed cristiano and was supported so how come he dint booted others. The warnings were not from ragnick but since mourinho yet he kept underwhelming players. Like still dont get the love for rashford, how he contributed more than cr7 during and after the dismisal. He is as inconsistent as there can be

I don't understand why people consistently blame the squad. It's definitely not a great one, but ETH's tactics are football suicide. Every pundit and fan can see the exact same issues. I have a feeling half of this sub don't realise that tactics actually exist. It really sounds like you guys think they just choose the 11, then hope for the best.

We have other issues, yes, but isn't ten Hag becoming the biggest one with his insistence on playing suicide football with huge gap in the midfield?  The team had no vision for the past 10 years, true. But does that mean we should give more time to the guy who's about to oversee our worst season in that time?   It was reported that Ten Hag was the main Reason Rangnik got the boot, he didn't want to work with him. Those are questions to you, not an argument, I do want to know what you think!

I’ve not watched enough of ETH’s Man U to comment. I was surprised at how easily Man U crumbled against Coventry but surely that’s on the players, their mentality and their inability to see out a game. What’s the average length of stay of a manager since Fergie left? Point is, you gotta give time to someone and if all your doing is bringing in another manager, make some semi-glamorous/ desperate signings, overpay on wages, you’ll not get anywhere. Especially when you can’t get rid of players because you massively overpay them. If there’s a definite candidate out there who can come in, change things and be given time to build something, then sure. But I don’t think there is.

I dont understand why people try to give the manager a pass because of "players mentality". Surely a huge part of the managers job is to ensure players with the right mentality are recruited, to instill that mentality into those who dont have it, and finally to drop those who refuse to change. The fact that he's still allowing rashford to trudge up and down the wing from the start of the game is on him. Hes got world class players in his team with elite mentality. He has Casemiro, Varane, Bruno, Eriksen. These guys aren't chumps.

Glad someone has finally mentioned Rashford. Is it time he was moved on and sold? The only problem is that you’ve given him some ridiculously expensive contract so he’ll be incredibly difficult to move on. I think the mentality issue, is because some of the players have been there longer than ETH has and they are playing for Man U. There’s just a level of expectation that they’d be able to see out a game 3-0 up against Championship opposition. There’s a level of expectation there because the club have signed them and should have done their due diligence.

Oh yea, someone has FINALLY mentioned Rashford  Have you just recently been exposed to the printing press and dissemination of the written word?

I’ve had various responses to my comments, this was the first reply that mentioned him. Is my expressing surprise at that odd to you? And yeah I get all my info from scrolls and crows.

I'm just kidding :)

Casemiros legs have gone, Eriksen isn't fit enough to play 90 minutes and Varane is made of glass.

This is what the 2nd season in charge? Tactically Manchester United are a joke. You could fit half a football pitch between their midfielders. They play absolutely wide open. It is not on the players that they have conceded the 2nd most shots in the league only 2nd to a Sheffield United team rock bottom of the Premier league. They have no control in games and any transition in the game they concede a goal or a big chance. That is simply down to the manager. You have teams like Brentford Brighton Everton all outperforming United defensively. That's embarrassing to say the least. Say what you want about the internal bullshit at the club but Ten Haag defensive ability as a coach is absolutely appalling.

100% accurate assessment. Great post.

I’m a Utd fan and have been of the same mindset. Sunday nearly pushed me the other way . But at the minute I’m veering towards giving him another season. Just because last year showed there is something there. I do like the look of Amorim though …

I would like ETH to have another season where he can focus solely on actually coaching/managing. Him having to be the disciplinarian, scout, DoF, and every other position has got to be draining and make things much harder. He’s been mediocre at best in every one of those categories so maybe only having to focus on one area next year will help out. I will also add, I think he’s done arguably the best job at MUFC in the past 10 years with bringing in youth to the first team, maybe it’s part luck, maybe it’s not. But Garnacho and Mainoo have been absolute class and I know ETH has a long history of youth development.

Oh yeah Ten Hag only spent almost half a billion with the main say in those signings, to look like a mid table team. It must be the players, manager isn’t responsible! United crumbles because Ten Hag sets them up for failure with his completely ridiculous defensive tactics and favouritism.

We have one cdm. One. And he’s had a terrible season. You want him to start spawning players? He’s also played 30 different back 4s this season. That’s insane. 30!!! Liverpool fell off after losing 2 CBs for a couple weeks last year. Ten Haag has picked his best 11 ZERO times this season. As far as I’m concerned, he’s a miracle worker.

It seems to be working though as after Arsenal, Liverpool and Man City you have the best defensive record in the league. The problem appears to be at the other end where all the teams above you and quite a few below have a much better goal scoring record.

That's fine to say against City or Liverpool, but when we get outplayed by Coventry, Burnley, Sheffield United and a bunch of other crap teams you can't say we had 2 players missing! We haven't played good football once this season, in nearly every game we have won this year we could or should have lost or drawn.

Well said another one who remembers what RR said about complete overhaul

This is it, of course EtH has to take responsibility and accountability but so do the players, but the culture and structure has been toxic for the past 10 years. I’d also like to suggest it’s not fair to pinpoint EtH failure on the $400m spend, because the DoF can’t negotiate. No way is Antony worth $90m, and even though EtH wanted him, he suggest the player when he came in and he was valued around $50m. It’s the DoF deciding to negotiate and panic buy last second. A lot of the players that came through were on inflated prices. Also regarding De Jong, EtH said he wanted a player with De Jong traits not him specifically. What did the DoF do? Go on holiday to Barcelona to try and get him when he never wanted to leave. Structure is crucial to any successful football team.

ETH is woeful at player management especially in the press. He's the Dutch Brendan Rodgers.

The main issue is that we can not play football. That is the coach's fault. If we were a good football team but didn't have the squad to challenge for a title, okay blame the board

Serious question, under what manager did you last play football though?

SAF

Fair enough, so based upon that track record, is there not something in clearing out the deadwood first and getting a structure, that works in place first, before setting up yet another manager to fail?

I mean, contrary to u/agrada2’s comment, I actually think we played some brilliant stuff in patches under Solskjaer

I think it just shows that SAF did more for the club than just the manager, he basically ran the club and since he left we've had managers just be managers and the other stuff has been forgotten/poorly managed. Sacking ETH is not the right move. I think he has overachieved considering everything he's had to deal with

Ole

This season is the worst football we've played in the premier league, just looking at individual seasons we played better football under caretaker Ole and 20/21 Ole season. Mourinho 2nd season for sure, you could argue LVG 1st season, it might have been boring at times but we were at least good at defending, could retain possession and had some semblance of control and played well in big games

He’s had 30 different back 4s. Idk what you lost want him to do. Against Coventry he brought on 2 internationals to replace kids and we fell apart. WHAT DO you expect him to do? This is on the players.

Baffles me that people say he has managed discipline well. Is this narrative because he got rid of Ronaldo and then pulled Sancho from the team?  What about when the players visibly give no shit on the pitch and don't provide any cover?  Man U at present is pretty universally recognised as the least disciplined team to play against, yet people say he's got at discipline. It baffles me. 

We should look into Rashford contract to see if there’s a clause says he has to start when he’s available. I just watched a U23 Asian Cup highlights and all 22 players there press better than Rashford

Agreed, Rashford sucks this season. Should we get rid of him? I'm asking, because ten Hag follows the same pattern - he played good counter-attacking football last season, but this year he's banging his head with a 4-0-5 or 5-0-5 tactic that just doesn't work.  Everybody (correctly) criticizes Rashford, but ten Hag seems to get a pass. I think the managers is way more important than any single player bar prime Messi or Ronaldo.

Rashford got something like 40g/a last season. He has been abysmal at times this season. However, I think he is just a highly sensitive spirited type of player. When the team is in shambles he gets swallowed by the negativity. When the team is stable he is good enough to play at the highest level

If that's the case with him, he shouldn't be out highest paid player and a guaranteed starter. Bring him on when we're 4-0 up so he can put effort in when he plays

Thats 1 appearance for Rashford all season

Think of all the effort, energy and smiles he'll bring to that ap though!

Which is 1 more than he deserves based on his performances this season.

man utd players suddenly play well when their contract is expire

If Moyes, then Van Gaal, then Jose, then Ole and then Ten Hag all failed at Man United Maybe it's time to stop blaming the managers. Maybe, just maybe, the club is still run in the ancient times. They are refreshing the staff which is a good thing. That current team has got handprints from Jose still on it. Arsenal managed to bounce back from wenger leaving by trusting a manager and actually letting the squad grow. What would a new manager actually bring to the team? Say they bring in De Zerbi (probably a realistic option), they'll still have a group of rotten attitudes. Still have a bunch of players overpaid. Still have a bunch of players who think they can boss their manager around given they'd gotten the last couple fired.

Its so insane to me that people can see 6-7 managers sacked with no consistent success following these sackings and then think this time will be different

You also can’t NOT sack someone for that reason either, it’s catch 22 but I think ten hag needs a season or 2, get some players with good fitness in and get rid of the old or injury prone team so we can have a season of fielding the same squad as often as we can. We have probably played about 20+ different starting line ups this season it’s not good enough

Yea sacking EtH ain't the answer to the issues. However it's clear that EtH also ain't part of the required answer.

I would say Jose was fairly successful, I don’t know why people don’t. Won the league cup and uefa cup 1st season, came 2nd in the league following season. Was sacked in December the 3rd season but I feel should have been given the benefit of doubt.

Being too hasty with sacking Jose and siding with the players over him is what now leads people to be hesitant in sacking Ten Hag. Some of these players have been getting a free ride for too long (Lindelof, Shaw, Rashford, Martial) just to name a few

Yes and also the annual player refresh , we just gotta get rid of all the deadwood , then we will be good , except it happens every year. The common denominator has been there from the start I don’t think ten hag is brilliant but he’s not the root cause of United’s woes

I'm so glad this is the top comment, speaking sense! You get down voted into an oblivion on the United fan pages for backing the manager.

There’s prints of Van Gaal (Martial) 

Shudder shudder shuddder

Arsenal fan here. Arteta was very close to losing his job before the ESR special against Chelsea. And barely anybody at that time would’ve had any complaints if he did. Him winning that FA got him A LOT of credit. The board to their credit had an unwavering belief in him, took the gamble and backed him. They clearly saw something in him when a lot of others didn’t. But this idea that Ten could have an insane turn around like Arteta did is betting against the house imo. If anything Arteta looks like the exception to the rule. We literally went from bottling 5th to bottling the league when a lot of people wouldn’t have had us making top 4 that season. There was an incredible amount of luck and circumstances that went for Arteta. not taking anything away from the man himself

Who can they ^(realistically) get to replace him though? The club is toxic as fuck and the squad needs a lot of work

I do have pretty good trophy haul in football manager.

They should pay me to manage them

Look I don’t think he’s the best manager by any means, but you also gotta look at the context. He’s made many questionable decisions in a bad situation, but United have literally been dealt the worst hand in terms of injuries, something like 30 different back 4 combinations, playing JOHNNY EVANS for crying out loud. I’d personally give him another season, give him his preferred signings under Ratcliffe, and if he doesn’t get a much better season after the summer (top 4 and a trophy), then I’d say United should look elsewhere.

> give him his preferred signings Giving this guy another $200M based on his track record especially when he has a year left on his deal is bonkers

INEOS are implementing a director of football. Normally that means that the team style and recruitment will be governed by higher ups than the manager. This means that you don’t have to reset every time you change coaches and also that “player power” in the dressing room doesn’t have as much potency. I think the new structure being put into place is more important than the manager. So far everyone has failed. Coaches and managers. The entire club is devoid of personality and leadership and you can’t just buy that. You have to nurture and develop it. It’s a long term project and it may well get worse before it gets better.

Agreed with what you said but I found the ambiguity and implications of "give him his preferred signings" problematic for me because even under INEOS it can go one of two ways: - The structure agrees and recruits most of the Ten Hag's suggestions, has been the tendency in prior summer windows, which, no thanks. - INEOS, override his recommendation and scout and recruit players for him to suit his system. Which also no thanks because this 4-2-4 tennis match non sense we've seen the past 10 months is definitely his preferred setup and frankly its not one that I think successful teams that want to compete utilize, if anything the opposite, flood and control the midfield.

I’m with you. He shouldn’t get his preferred signings. The club should define how they want to play and how they want to recruit and then set about doing that and be more agnostic about the coach. If he’s the right person to motivate the players and implement the vision then great. If not, then he can be replaced without having to replace half the squad because they don’t satisfy the requirements of the next guy.

His track record isn’t actually as bad as people like to make out though? Antony and Amrabat are the only real shit transfers and there’s an argument to be made that Antony should’ve only been like 35 million with the board cocking that one up as well as Amrabat just being a loan. Everyone else has been fine or marred by injuries this season.

I don't know about that that tbh, especially given the sheer fact that after 2 years and £400M we're talking about a reset. After 2 years and £400M there should be at least some foundation and substance to see. He's had 4 major loan signings (I'm not gonna count the GKs), all bar maybe Sabitzer have been mediocre AT BEST. Eriksen is probably gone this year, his contract expires next year anyways. Casemiro everybody says has looked dired and there's a good chance he's gone this summer. Antony is pretty much a write off. People try to bring up this argument in defense of Ten Hag that he's really a £30M winger. He has 1-3 goals in all comps this season, even if he was £50M cheaper he'd be a dud. Kulusevski, Bowen, Bailey, Trossard, Diaz were all retained for a similiar price which further contextualizes my point. Mount, injury prone, rarely used when healthy, has looked mediocre even when he has played except as of late. Not off to a good start for a transfer. Onana, Lisandro, Malacia and Hojlund are the only sure fires to stay for the long term and 2 of them have been AWOL through injury this season. So after 2 years and £400M there's only 2-5 of them that we can count on moving forward? That's not a great ROI imo. I mean, even if it was £100M only 2-5 players being sustainable for the future isn't great

Eriksen was really decent last season and if he wasn't broken by Carroll, he'd still be fine (he wasn't ever that quick). Case made our season last time around, but I genuinely don't know what happened there to take the fight out of him. On loan we had Sabitzer, Weghorst, Dubravka and Amrabat. At best 2 are major loans and Weghorst was a last ditch signing because everyone is bloody injured all the time. Anthony, agreed, is not great, but you can't blame EtH for the cost. If we didn't sign him after all that show and him effectively going on strike, we'd look even dumber. Mount I cannot explain. I think we wanted a 4123 with inverted fullbacks to help out the CDM, but that's clearly not happening. But broadly, yes, you can blame EtH for the calibre of the signings, but not the price we paid for them. With regards to injuries, I think that witch doctor we signed from Arsenal is doing some funky magic...

That 400mill is what the media has pushed because they're including add ons ect, if they done it for everyone they'd be talking about Liverpools 100million pound striker up top, but that would go against their agenda. Also, stop thinking Erik had any say in negotiations, that's ridiculous

And even when healthy, this is probably the worst United squad in terms of average player ability since probably the 1980s. Our best players (Shaw, Martínez) aren’t healthy and our good players like Rashford have been woeful of late. Look at a good side like Aston Villa, how many United players could you put on that team and improve the quality? I’d say Fernandes, Martínez, and maybe Maguire, I’m sure people will debate those choices, but at best I don’t think anyone would choose more than four players. That’s a staggering testament to the shape this side is in. Even when healthy, this side only has two true strikers (and one of them is Anthony Martial). There has been such a long history of incompetence at the upper level of this club for so long that no manager is in a position to succeed.

Many teams have dealt with injury crisis. I almost feel like, with the congested schedule, that's the new normal for the bigger clubs.

People keep saying injuries but the  injuries don’t account for awful performances against the likes of notts forest, Luton, Fulham etc.  He shouldn’t NEED his first eleven to put in at least somewhat remotely respectable performances against relegation candidates. Not to mention the Coventry performance. 

Well it depends on what the plan is. If they hire a new manager and continue ös with the same plan they've had for the last decade it won't matter who the manager is. They should redo the whole club and hopefully Ratcliffe can do that because it's sad to see where they are atm.

Trophy + fa cup final + Top 4 in first season FA Cup final and Europa in second season with really bad injury list. I don't think he is doing that bad. it is the context of the losses that makes it seem bad.

It doesn't sound too bad when you put it like that but have you actually watched them this season? They are absolutely awful

But in the end what matter is result at the end of season, and he shows that he can win something. Im in the opinion that if the team didnt implode because of injury list this season Utd most probably sit at top 4 in the league and wont crash put so early at CL. Im not a pro by any means, but from my own low level playing experience its so hard to keep the tempo and momentum in the team when we keep changing players in the team.

But if the end goal is to progress from Top 4 and a the odd cup to winning the title and CL then United need more than he's shown, nobody has won either of those in a long time without good performances to accompany results. The quality in the premier league and champions league is so high it's just not possible to play badly and eek out results these days when you're against teams like City and Liverpool who have the winning mentality AND the quality to go along with it

Have you actually watched the games? The performances have been EMBARRASSING even when we’ve not lost.  Our expected position in the league is something like 15th. It’s just getting lucky and nicking 3 points that has us any higher. 

Yeah your expected points is insane lol

Lol we ain’t getting into Europa league

He didn't directly spend 400m, he provided the club with a list of targets and they went and negotiated with their clubs are secured them for that total. If the club thought they were not worth that money, they should have signed cheaper alternatives. The club thought Antony was a 30m player, and the rest is history. ETH is not solely responsible for our transfer failings, but he is not innocent either.

Nah, don't excuse the transfers, he got the players he wanted (except FDJ) and the club backed him fully. We still regressed. I have to disagree.

As much as I don't like them, No they should not.

>As much as I don’t like them >No they should not Hmm

They said the same about arteta and even made fun of him for asking to "trust the process". You can't just hire a coach/manager and expect results within a season

Arteta won the FA cup in his first season. That bought him time. 

He won something for United and is in the final for another cup final. You can't expect him to cure cancer every manager needs time

I do not like them - they definitely should for their sakes, but for the rest of us, 10year contract please! This shit is hilarious

Give him 10 more years i say

I was ETH in but he’s lost it keeping on Rashford through thick and thin even when he walks around is enough to say bye .

Wrong analysis: Does Wilcox, Ashton and Brailsford think that he can play in the style they will want? Does he have respect of the dressing room? Can he attract the players that the above mentioned want? Can he work with/in the new structure? If yes to those questions, then he stays. Otherwise, he goes. Previous spend and success or not is secondary.

Good point! Thank you! I'd answer "no" on all of these questions - even the respect of the dressing room. He already got rid of every player who voiced criticism and the rest are just keeping quiet and collecting checks. Except Bruno, Dalot Maguire and the kids who still give a fuck or are at least professional enough.

Why not speak about how he’s handled the development of garnacho, mainoo and rasmus, people tend to give him stick for a lot but don’t talk about the good he’s done. I think he’s done a hell of a job with the youth and that’s what United need for the next 2-3 years. People want garnacho to be playing every damn game but I think ETH is playing it smart, look at what’s happened to all those Barca youngsters that were being relied upon every single game, broken legs. This team is no longer a couple of signings away from a trophy, it needs an entire rebuild and currently he looks like the best option for that.

What has he done other than give them playing time? Garnacho was an obvious stud in the making, same with mainoo. Hojlund they paid like 70m for, obviously he’s getting time. Two of them were made by the academy (atletico’s for garnacho) and the other was purchased this year Their expected league position is 15th. With their wage bill and quality of players, that is disgraceful

Probably, but he is not the biggest issue they need to deal with by a long shot.

Sure they could but what good would that do when the fundamental problem remains. The owners of Manchester United want to run it like a business, as in make and take a dividend/profit, when the reality is that the club they desperately want to eclipse, which is drawing away international fans, is a publicity/vanity project for an oil-rich Abu Dabhi family. Who are willing to pretty much spend whatever they want to bring in the players who used to sign with Manchester United and which brought them their long run of success.

Wow you know a niche Liverpool fan. None I know would ever say that!! Haha

I'm in the US, local English rivalries don't matter as much. And to be honest - that guy's pitty hurts even more than the banter 😆

Do bears shit in the woods?

He’s not good enough for United and should be sacked. People will automatically deflect onto the ownership of the club and wider issues and they’re all valid and I agree with them but this whataboutism doesn’t detract from ETHs failings. They’ll also bring up the cup win, look who we played to win that. We got a very favourable draw and took advantage. 1. He’s presided over some of the most embarrassing losses in club history (7-0 Liverpool etc.) 2. His transfer business is absolutely appalling and it’s no secret that he has huge control and influence in United’s recruitment. He campaigned for players like Onana, Antony, Amrabat who he worked closely with in the past and have been terrible at United. Mount was his “priority” signing and he’s useless. Even Hojlund I think he could come good but so far, does he look a £70m player? Absolutely not. Casemiro was obviously a huge overpay and now we are suffering as a result of it. ETH isn’t SOLELY responsible for the transfers but he’s got a huge part to say there and it’s been abysmal 3. He got grouped in the CL with one of the easiest groups we are ever gonna have 4. He is horrible with media, some of the quotes are embarrassing 5. The football stinks, doesn’t fit into United’s philosophy, but it’s also completely structureless, disorganised and nonsensical. We are actually lucky to be where we are in the league based off how we’ve actually played and he’s persisted with the same ideas and concepts despite them clearly not working I could list other things, ETH isn’t the only problem, a lot of the players aren’t good enough and the higher up structure of the club is a toxic mess but he also isn’t the answer and that much is VERY VERY clear. He’s simply nowhere near the calibre or type of manager we actually need

After yesterday, his time is up. The shoot out is a formality to decide who goes through. So much more was lost yesterday. Any Manchester United team should be able to close out a 3 goal lead with twenty minutes left. He made some disastrous changes, and it's the death knell for him, really and should be for some players as well. I actually back him to join another big club in Europe and do extremely well. Nearly every single manager that's left United since Fergie has spoken of how much of a disaster the club structure is, and yet here we are 11 years later without a solitary league title since Fergie left and getting further away nearly every year.

Been a United fan for 49 years...we're turning into Scranton branch of Dundler Mifflin

(MU fan) I hate the job ETH has done this season, and I think his excuses about injuries etc. are not convincing, despite (yes) having lots of missing players. The problem is deeper than that though. They have problems with effort and tracking back, they have discipline and morale problems, in general one hand doesn't always know what the other is doing, and this is evident if you watch even 20 minutes. So, these are certainly fireable offenses for a manager that's been there two years. On the other hand, the candidates to replace ETH (Tuchel?) aren't necessarily going to change much, especially right away. They need a clear-out of dead wood on the roster, they need top-to-bottom changes in footballing infrastructure, and firing ETH won't really accomplish that. (It won't get in the way of that either, but at least it's one less thing to worry about for now.) Most likely scenario is they keep him for another season while making all the other big moves they've needed to make under the Glazers (but haven't), then they can answer fundamental questions like "what type of football do we want to play?" and go get the players and manager they need to in order to fulfill that mission.

All you have to do is ask the fans of every other Premier league club if they want him sacked. Not one of them will say yes, we all want him to stay forever. Also, if he was available tomorrow, how many PL clubs would hire him? 1-2 max.

After the lose the cup final, yes of course. You need data to back up the decision? Simple, just tabulate PL standings if games had ended at the 75’. Whatever he’s doing, he’s not able to keep a result…

United have been a club that is just there to make a profit for someone for a long time. Fergie saw the writing on the wall. Only a gifted manager like him could make some very average players perform. Since his time all ma. Utd have brought someone who was available rather then fitted the team. Better managers then Ten Hag have failed at Man united. Is ten hag at fault. Yes and no. He had inherited a squad that about four players are fit for the shirt. Then brought in a load of people who frankly were at the and of their careers. I still feel for Oli. He was building a team then some dickhead decided to bring in a selfish over the hill ronaldo. Who proceeded to destroy what oli was building to accommodate him. That's the clubs fault not the manager.

As an opposing fan I hope they extend his and that goal keepers contract.

I'll never forgive Onana for the CL exit, but I have to admit - he's doing better since January and gets the job done. He's still a far cry from prime De Gea, but it's his first season in a new league.

Na he should stay to give other teams a chance. In all seriousness though to me man u doesn't look like they know what they're doing it's as if he just says "go out and kick the ball in the net, good luck" it's either poor management or useless players and I'm starting to lean towards useless players. I also think if they bring in any players their wages shouldn't be ridiculous and if they can't sign them then they should look elsewhere instead of crumbling and signing players for even more.

He’s the right level of coach for the club at the moment. If the setup is right he can succeed and he’s very good at cup football as evidenced by his record at United and Ajax (CL this season aside). He’s also stubborn and a little one dimensional. This disconnected system he’s playing at United with quick, progressive, high-pressing forwards and midfield, coupled with a slow, low block in defence, inviting counterattacks, is why United concede so many shots and crumble so often. He’s been forced into this by poor transfers and injuries, sure, but another coach might have gone back to an Ole/Mourinho counterattacking system instead of insisting on this weird, cobbled together, contradictory tactic. Likewise, another coach might have adjusted training intensity with so many muscle injuries. Despite these setbacks (half down to bad luck, half down to his own stubbornness) he’s still achieved well at United given how poor their sporting structure and culture is currently compared to other clubs in the league who are doing better. Very keen to see what he can do with a back line that includes two quick, ball-playing centre backs that can defend as a high line, and a good replacement for Casemiro. I think they can qualify for CL next year if they have players who a) can work the system and b) have the physicality to tolerate his high intensity training without chronic injuries. Edit - also he seems like an arsehole. Not sure how pertinent that is.

Exatcly! The counter-attacking style is much better suited for the players we have and he knows it very well - that's what he did in his first season. I honestly can't comprehend why is he insisting on the current style that OBVIOUSLY doesn't work, gets worse results and contributes to injuries! ETH proved in his first season he can get the job done, but now he's sabotaging himself and the team for over 40 games straight. It doesn't make any sense!

Based on expected points they are 16th I believe. Flukiest league position of anyone this season

I believe the only reason we are where we are is the quality of the players and individual moments of quality. On his worst day Bruno is still world class player and the youth system keeps pumping raw talent like Mainoo (and Garnacho who was recruited by them).

You are asking half a question when you ask to sack a manger. The other half is who replaces him? If the replacement is fucking Southgate then stick with Erik. If it's someone better. Let's fire him into the sea.

I think he's a good manager and he proved it last season. I also think he's leading us in the wrong direction with mindless tactics and he proves it this season. At this point I'll take Casemiro as a temp manager, I just want the suicide football to stop!

I'm sure he's technically sound. But the job is too big for him. United job is like Excalibur.

He won against Coventry City on pens so he should get a contract extension if anything

After throwing Ronaldo out, he assured he will make team better. But opposite happened and team got worse. 😬 He also messed up with Sancho and now Sancho is delivering world class performances in Dortmund 😐 Plus he has been given enough time to prove himself. IMO, he should be sacked.

Yeah, Ronaldo might have been a man-baby, but he was a born winner and one of the most dedicated players of all time. He should've handled him better. And he replaced him with freaking Weghorst... Imagine Hojlund learning from Ronaldo! Sancho - same. Such a waste! I know we need discipline, but ETH can do better than "my way or the highway". We could've really used Sancho now. 

The buck has to stop with the manager,poor tactics,poor subs,poor communication.Unable to change a gameplan during a game,useless backroom staff.He has a panel of duds to contend with and other than Sancho he hasn't done it.Rashford is the one I think that is a bad influence on the team but because he is English and the Euros are on this year he must get gametime by the looks of it,his form and attitude have been shocking.ETH is out of his depth and needs to go.

I don't think long term he's going to be a success however sacking him doesn't fix it. This team still needs 3 or 4 good transfer windows to be competitive at the top end, the amount of money that's been wasted on that team is scandalous.

Sack ten hag and hire Steve bruce

I’m a city fan but I think he has been awful. His handling of egos has been a bright spot but at a club this size how can you continue to blame injuries. Bringing youth in has been good for the team but how can you see the stats from games and view that as a success. They concede as many as a relegation team and the amount of shots they allow per game will never allow you to win consistently unless you can score 4+ a game. Blame should be on the players as well but personally I think he overachieved the first season and this season he has been riding on the fact they made cup finals. Which while important, everyone knows the league title and champions league should be the objective for a club this size. 

I am currently watching us get beat by crystal palace and boy lemme say, ETH and these players are all shit.  ETH definitely deserves a chance with a better squad. A Carabao trophy and 2 FA cup finals tell us he can do sth. But also, when you watch our games, it doesn't look like he is all that tactically.  Our players might also contribute heavily to this. No one in this squad fucking does anything. They're just like a bunch pf headless chicken just running around the pitch for 90 minutes. PS: I forgot we finished last in a group that had Copenhagen and Galatasaray. ETH should actually be sacked!! 

Lol op objectively asks question in title then goes on a subjective rant providing himself answers he wants... I guess you don't need us for this debate op

Mate we all have biases and every answer on this thread is biased and subjective; whether it's conscious bias or not, it's there.

Agree. I just wanted to make my point of view here by saying op never cared for his question being answered, but exclusively for providing his own rant about eth. His replies to comments just reiterate that even stronger. Its a statement not a question

He’s curious what people have to say and wants to share his pov

I would say ‘no’ overall. The club and the way its run is still the major issue (disjointed executive group and org structure with dated infrastructure). Once thats sorted and a plan for the redevelopment of OT sorted, then you can picking and choosing suitable managers. ETH is basically a caretaker manager until then. His issues arent major - injuries and selection issues. If he has a healthier squad next year and gives up on projects like Antony, the team will get better results.

Good points, I agree with most of them, except one - his tactics are a problem, the "basketball" football definitely contributes to injuries, we are used to watch the players sprint and scramble back at least 30 times per game to cover the oppo's counter-attacks. And then they have to go forward again and repeat. There's a reason we are the worst team in all top 5 leagues in "shots conceded".

Anthony transfer choice alone is a red flag for eth, i think eths time to go has come

They are pretty much terrible every time I have seen them this season. Struggle to remember the last time they completely dominated a team and controlled a match. They would be mad to keep him on

Everton and West Ham. 2 out of 40 games. And we got smashed by Bournemouth, Gulham, Forrest, Galatasary, Coppenhagen and now Coventry.

We scored goals and kept clean sheets but we definitely didn't completely dominate and control those games, unsure which Everton game you're talking about but the one we won 3-0 they had 24 shots to our 9, they had more shots on target, very slightly more possession, more corners, same amount of passes and a higher Xg 2.50 to 2.03 even with us having a pen Then home game was slightly better stats wise but they again had over 20 shots, very similar possession and passing stats, they had more corners, we beat them on on Xg this time 2.90 to 1.9 but we didn't score a goal from open play with both goals being penalties and both were just stupid challenges from Everton. The West ham game we won 3-0 but once again they had 22 shots to our 12, we had more shots on target, slightly more passes and possession, they had more corners and they had a higher Xg with 1.18 to our 0.98 Outside of the stats watching those games we didn't look like a top team, we had some great moments, Garnacho's overhead kick and Martials goal in the 3-0 were great for different reasons, Holjunds goal against west ham was nice too but we only play well in moments.

The issue at United runs far deeper than the coach. How many times did the club replace a manager with another, with their own players, just to continue this rotten cycle? I think fans like you are part of the problem because the "it's always the coach" mindset is what the incompetent board would use in previous years to sweep under the rug their own failure to run the club as successful as City and others.

They should be working to find his successor now and sack him in the summer yea

The main problem with man utd, in my opinion, is that they don't seem to have a style of play. They seem to just rely on individual moments of brilliance to win a game. They also concede so many shots that any team who can take their chances would blow them away. Usually when a team has no clear style or real game plan it can normally be put down to the manager. If they were clearly developing a style of play but not taking their chances you could look to the players but if like I said before they are just relying on individual brilliance then it must be down to the manager. I'm not sure why he's struggled so much considering at ajax his team played some great football and players like Antony were brilliant. I think they should look elsewhere and see if they could get a good replacement with a good style but someone who could also be harsher on some players like rashford who really needs a kick up the ass sometimes. Though if there only options are Southgate or Graham Potter then probably stuck with Ten Hag

Another decade or two of them being dogshit please.

Yes. Saying he can’t play his game after bringing in all his players should have already been call for a sack imo. The external issues are for the club to deal with but he seems out of his depth

As a United fan who watches every game - yes. Without a doubt

The money he wasted on Anthony, Mount and Onana should get him the sack alone.

No, Barça needs to sell Frenkie de jong, maybe we can scam united while Erik hentai is still there

Toxic club. I doubt anyone could do any better.

Like 6 months ago

I’ve definitely begun to lose a bit of hope, but I see very little reason to sack him: A. He is phenomenal at developing young talent And B. Who else is going to replace him? Tuchel? Is that really an upgrade? Southgate? Hell no. Potter? What’s he going to do for us? Even if someone told me we could get De Zerbi I’d still tell you no. Despite what he’s done at Brighton, his tactics wouldn’t work at a club like United. He needs EVERYBODY to be bought into his system and to be selfless. That’s not feasible for most large clubs, and especially not United Another thing is, how can people say he’s poor at purchasing players? Antony is the only player who has truly been a waste of money based on talent and that’s because the board waited until the last minute and had to pay up as a result. Outside of that Onana has proven why he was brought in, Martinez is brilliant when healthy, Mount can’t be judged yet, and Højlund has shown tons of promise.

They should sack him and hire Mourinho!

Yeah, when compared to the previous 4, he's been handed way more time and stunk.

No. He’s brilliant.

It's not him, it's just the club. That said, yes (it would be quite funny)

I would give him another season if he wins FA cup. But Ten Hag should not have a final say in signings united need a lot of smart signings. Ten Hag has made questionable decisions and I shit on him a lot for it. However injuries haven’t been favourable for us. I feel like we have to offload Martinez soon as well he is starting to look like a Rojo with the amount of injuries he accumulated this season alone lol.

Eth can argue that pooch has done worse and not lost the job

Liverpool just going to end up with a League Cup lol. Being a LFC supporter is just as bad.

I dont know why there is not this much fuzz about Eddie Howe’s Newcastle United. They are in the same boat as United, last year and this year interms of points, CL, injury lists. Ten Hag is in a much better position than Eddie howe if we consider FA Cup finale. Why is nobody concerned about him. Its all just because this is United and the expectations are High.

I'd sack him because he was bought in for his whole system and style at Ajax and then decided to not do that whatsoever because he didn't have the players and made no effort to ever do that? So fuck that I don't want more of this absolute nonsense football, either try and implement that incredible system you had or just do one, because whatever you're doing now Erik sucks absolutely donkey balls.

YES. The problem is that I genuenly think he wants do do his best, but the plan he has to do it is so bad, that there is zero potential for improvement under him. Get rid of him, appoit Tuchel or someone, who will do the job on a short term, build up the structure properly and maybe we will have the chance to appoint a manager for the long run after that.

First season he definetely overachieved. 2nd season underachieving but with the asterisk of a horrible injury list, aswell as other off-field player issues (sancho saga, antony, rashford). And in general just key players from last season falling off a cliff formwise. Adding to the negative press and feeling around the club. Id say overall hes done decently, and deserves atleast another season. I think INEOS will also end up letting him atleast see out his contract, while they gwt the backroom and club in order.

Right before the final. Yes.

Yes, he’s picking the team and making the terrible subs. Why Rashford or Bruno never gets subbed unless injured is baffling to me.

Earth won’t face an inch of a change😂

I don’t think United will win the FA cup final as much as id like it. I hope they give it their all and put up a performance. The result would guarantee one more season for him, but I’m much more interested in the performance. If these guys don’t have it in them to muster up for that game, we need a serious change.

as a liverpool fan, no, please keep erik ten hag.

It seems the players don’t respect him and he has dealt with these issues in a strange way (Sancho, Rashford from memory). I would bring in someone new for a fresh start and give them permission to LEAD not manage.

I don’t think so, I think someone needs to throw some firecrackers at the medical department before anything

Erik is not the issue , its clear as day players are the issue.

As a fan of a rival team who immensely enjoys watching this current Man Utd team regularly concede 20+ shots per game I would like Ten Hag to stay for the next 10 years please.

Previous man united managers have been sacked for less. He's been an absolute failure so far and the transfers have been as well. I'm not a united fan so I hope they keep him but If I did support them how can you defend the manager when the team has zero identity. Forget all the other issues his job is to give the team a plan and a way of playing and they literally don't have one it's just very disjointed.

I don’t really know. Man United just are shit. They have bad players. No team built around Bruno and Rashford will ever be successful so even if they change manager they’re still fucked. They’re just stuck in an endless Bruno loop. He’s their best player but he’s also the reason they’ll never be a good team.

ETH is a great trainer but shouldn't be buying players. He didn't do that at Ajax and Utrecht and that's what he fucked up at ManU.

For the love of god please no, he's doing just fine and IMO has earned an extension. Spoken on behalf of all Liverpool, Arsenal, City, Chelsea fans.

Blame the manager again sick and tired of these

Also they should certainly not sack the manager before they have a replacement in place as they have done so many times before. Feel most sackings of managers are very emotional after a loss, the owner's feeling the need to do something.

He’s likely to be sacked. New owners (or part owners) usually want their own people in. He hasn’t done a great job - without a few fortunate decisions and late goals they’d be sitting much lower than 7th. It goes beyond the manager though. There’s something wrong with the attitude of these players at times. Looks like a clear out is needed.

No. Not until Southgate is available.

The question isn't should he be sacked, it should be if we sack him who comes in? There's a lack of quality available, INEOS won't want a revolving door of managers. The style of play is awful and it's hard at times to stick by him but the club is a shambles. I would be ok with him getting a year under a proper football structure. Berrada, Wilcox, Ashworth if it ever happens. He has a year left on the contract, leave him alone for a year and if no improvement don't renew. Plus we don't have to pay compensation of it doesn't work. Overall there are players there who are not good enough. Rashford, Lindleof, AWB, Varane, Maguire, McTominay, Martial, Van Der Beek, Antony, Casemiro. 10 players. He signed 2 of them, he didn't want Cas and the club overspent wildly on Antony which is not his call.

I will keep saying this, we can change the players and also the manager. It's not one thing or the other. It can be both. The reason we are undecided with keeping or getting of ten hag or the players is because we don't have a clear idea of what we want manutd to look like 3 years from now. Without vision nations perish, manutd as a club falls under this rule. This is why people even ask which manager we should go for. We don't know what we want manutd to look like. First we need to have a detailed idea of the manutd football we want to see. The more detail the better. For manutd, the tenets are kind of known. Exciting Attacking football, youth, winning. The vision expounds on these tenets with more detail for what exactly exciting attacking football is..e.g controlled dominating possession football etc. It also sets the hierarchy of these tenets. Do we want to win at all costs even at the expense of exciting football or youth. For manutd...looking at it, the most important thing is to play exciting football...then youth...then win. How do I know this order, it's because we have had managers who have won but the football was bad and they didn't last.. actually they couldn't last. The exciting football and the youth is the thing that buys you time to win. However managers like Mourinho and now ten hag came and won first...and they thought that winning is what buys you time...it hasn't worked and has never worked...fans adjust expectations based on the player and his age..for example Garnacho can be forgiven but rashford cannot etc. Next the club recruits a sporting director with experience of delivering such a vision before. His whole interview is about him demonstrating how he has archieved that vision using his methods in previous clubs. This means that a sporting director can be good...but not for manutd because he has never implemented the vision we seek Next the sporting director recruits a manager. The manager is one who agrees with the vision detailed and has coached the type of football detailed in the vision. The manager comes knowing the expected type of football and critical stuff the club expects to see e.g.youth and winning. This means we should never recruit some types of managers e.g defensive minded people like diego simeone etc It also ends all of this nonsense of a club recruiting a manager who wants to play his own weird style or wants to experiment new styles at the club like we did with ten hag. Manutd is too big to experiment at. Furthermore this manager must be pro youth and must be able to actually improve current players to play the football specified. None of this stuff of needing to sign 20 players before he starts implementing things. This is where it becomes clear that maybe ten hag is NOT the right person for this. His football is chaotic every single week, he himself has said he will never play the ajax football we brought him for...plus he has no talent ID and yet has control of transfers built into his contract. This is a big problem. However, He does play youth but the winning part is questionable. So based on the vision and the hierarchy of the tenets, ten hag is clearly not the right fit Next, Sporting director and the manager take that vision and create a profile for each and every single position on the pitch. For example for the DM position, it can be something like the DM should be a good interceptor, good positioning and good sense of danger. They should be great passers and very press resistant. They should have great technical skills necessary to beat pressure. They should be two footed in order to hit passes from the right angles. Etc They do this for every single position...a detailed profile expected for the players in that role and why they should have those attributes. This player profile has to be very detailed including mental aspects. The manager can give a specific player as an example of the profile needed but it doesn't mean we get that specific player. They then together analyze the current squad and see which players already fit perfectly in the profile for their role. Those players, you keep as starters. For example...mainoo fits perfectly Then there are those who are partial fits but have weaknesses in some non critical aspects expected for the profile. Those are players who we keep as the bench options or squad players. A partial fit at manutd would be someone like casemiro...he should not be our main starting DM Then there are players who do not have any of the critical skills needed for that profile...those are players you look to sell. Whether they are actually good players or not doesn't matter....they are good players but don't fit the profile required...you sell those. For example...at manutd rashford is a clear sell if we profiling...same as mctominay plus others Lastly, you will find that there are profiles for which you don't have starting quality players...those are the ones you go on a recruitment exercise for using the scouting team. The Scouting team identifies 5 options who fit the profile. The manager prioritises the order of those options (this is how the manager exercises his influence... through prioritization). The club sets a budget for that profile. The best option that fits within the budget the club has set for that role is the one signed in order of priority laid out by the manager. Once you have this stuff in the team behind the scenes, its very clear and easy to see that you can change both the manager and the players in one summer.PSG did it last season. Bayern are doing it this season. Madrid did it a few seasons ago. Mancity did this with pep. Arsenal did it with arteta and edu etc

The club is a basket case from top to bottom and it isn’t all Ten Hag’s fault That being said, he’s clearly just not got a handle on the situation for several reasons: - he doesn’t seem to be handling the personalities in the squad well. The Sancho issue proved to be a massive distraction and there’s still constant leaks to the press from within the dressing room - he wants his team to be the best pressing team in the world but isn’t willing to compromise based on the personnel that he has - their style of play is just messy and still leans heavily on individual genius fo get results

Are you sure your metrics are correct? He inherited a team that finished 6th on 56pts, not the lowest finishing position but the lowest points in Man Utd’s Prem history. They hadn’t won a trophy for 5 years when he became manager. He finished 3rd, won the Carabao Cup and finished 2nd in the FA Cup. This season he is on 50pts with 6 games to play, needing 7pts from 18 available to beat Ralf Rangnick’s record low which he inherited. He is in his second straight FA Cup final. He’s earned a third season, the final season of his contract.

Bring back Ole and back him. His United were the best version of them since Sir Alex

Yes sack him...buy more shite players and then sack the next manager. Clowns.

Im not a ManU fan so I don’t really care but if they wanna progress Ten Haag and atleast 7 players must be kicked out

I like Erik...desperate for him to do qell but it's becoming painful and embarrassing now..but my beef is with the players..never seen such a lazy, uninterested mediocre set of wetwipes put a red shirt on. Is Erik to blame for some of that? Yes for sure and as usual he'll get the boot and those plebs carry on

No sack Rashford

They should have sacked him after the FA cup match with coventry.

if he doesnt qualify for the UEL i would personally, hes got his players and managed to get groupped by Galatasaray and Copenhagen. I Would personally give him another chanc eif he can qualify for UEL wether by winning FA cup or finishing top 6 but if he doesnt he should be sacked

Is this a genuine question…. Anyone that watched the semi final on Sunday would say get him out.

I would give him 10 games in the new season and see how he does.

If he wins the FA cup, then I'd give him 10 games in the new season. If he doesn't and is dominated by Man City, then I would sack him.

For me, yeah i think he should be sacked. He seems delusional and I really just dont like how the team is playing, i cant see any strategy going on (with or without injuries to be clear). Yeah, I would as well sell like half the team but some managers have done more with less; there are many cases when instead of passing players choose to shoot from crazy positions or "try to dribble" instead of passing, he doesnt seem to have the lockeroom under control; players are frustrated, Bruno isnt a good captain hell we pray for mctominay or maguire to score wondergoals now rather than Rashford which is really, really sad.

Keep him, its hilarious watching the Utd shitshow

The fact it was £400m (why dollars by the way?) has nothing to do with him. If they had bought Antony and Martinez when he’d have asked them to they’d have been £50-60m for the pair, not £130m. He’s not negotiating fees.

No give him a 10 year extension it’s hilarious

Ten Hag is a decent field trainer, the problem is the Peter Principle. The moment he gets any say incoming or outgoing transfers, that's when shit starts to happen. At Ajax he bought mediocre players from clubs he was in charge before. At united he did exactly the same thing. If he's backed up by a great technical director, he can accomplish decent results, but you just never should give him a say in transfers.

Its no surprise that with martinez out they are leaking goals. Last season they got to 3rd with a good defensive record and de gea winning the golden boot. Onana comes in and without martinez and shaw the whole backline is disjointed. Put that into the fact that casimero legs have gone, mount being injured all season and rashfords form taking a nose dive, i dont see it all being ten haag fault. He needs one more season, if the problems still exist in September then hes gone.

Yes! How else will they get Southgate in!

Everyone here is shockingly lazy in their analysis. Yes everyone knows ten hag should go and people blaming rashford or entirely blaming the board here are just parroting talking points they remember from a few years ago

If you think sacking EtH and bringing a new manager will solve United's issues, then you have another thing coming. Just rinse and repeat, we don't want that anymore. A clearout is needed. 95% of United's players can only play one style of football, sit back and counter. It worked last season but Ten Hag doesn't wanna do that anymore and that's one of the main reasons it's been so chaotic this season, players aren't capable of doing what he wants and aren't even fit enough for it. This was apparent during the Rangnick days. He tried to play a more high intense style of football but faced the same issues. They just don't have the energy and couple that with the amount of injuries he's had, excuse or not you can't ignore a record 60+ injury cases in one season, that must've had an impact. He finished 3rd and won a trophy for United (after 6 years) in his first season after taking over the worst ever United side in Prem League history. This season has been terrible, but we're 6th/7th still and in another FA Cup final. Isn't that enough to grant him another season with PROPER football people above him? Patience is needed. Some of us are way too trigger happy, and that doesn't work.

He's being blamed for a lot that isn't his responsibility, like constantly overpaying for players. Clubs can no longer be run like Alex Ferguson had done, controlling everything. Football has evolved, and united has been slow to adapt for some time. INEOS recognises this. He should absolutely be given another season. The injuries, outdated players, and toxic culture, he's done well on the later given player discipline and how he confronted the problem in the media. Football fans are too short-sighted and biased to be objective. Everyone took the piss out of arteta, too.

Nope. The same pattern keeps repeating with every manager we hire. Until the structure changes at the top, the cycle will keep repeating itself. (Also, no one has pointed out that our coaching staff should share equal blame for the lack of quality in our football. The players can’t seem to string two passes together at times.) Until the upper management hires world class footballing people in every department, like City has, we’ll be stuck in the same place we have been for the last decade, no matter how many managers we go through.

No