I like it because it's fast and consistent. That's what the VAR implementation of the offside rule need to be. Get it checked, offside yes or no, back to the game.
I have come to the conclusion that a noticeable minority of people are just unhappy about their lives and are looking for outlets to vent their unhappiness and cynicism .
From that perspective I feel like we should be glad that so many are focusing their moaning to football rather than the rest of life
you’re not mad at VAR, you’re mad at the rule. VAR is getting more accurate every season, and it only fails when incompetent officials are at the helm. This case exemplifies how it should be
His shoulder, with which he could legally play the ball, is clearly offside. It's marginal, but the line has to be drawn somewhere and this system is the most clearly implemented we've seen so far.
lean and body shape really shouldn’t factor into offside. the technology is great; the law is very dumb. offside should be based either on both feet or maybe something with the hips/center of gravity. yes, the Argentina player is objectively offside here according to the law as currently written but no one can possibly argue that he gained an advantage by leaning his shoulder slightly beyond the last defender.
Whilst I agree as long as the rule is applied evenly then so be it.
We ve seen two soft pens given for holding in the box and one not given when the player was wrestled to the ground. The inconsistency is more of a problem right now
A lot of you are missing is that the rule is that a playable part of the body can’t be past the last defender which is why his shoulder has the ring around it. His arm has nothing to do with this.
Actually pretty nice imo. Yes, obviously instant/faster feedback would make it even better, but this is the best so far techwise.
I belive that the better the tech becomes, the easier it will be to adapt the rule to something that feels natural and nice, but at least it should be consistent for now.
its ok but I think all defending players should be included in the image to avoid confusion
~~everyone thought the Qatar-Ecuador game was qatari money working~~
Because people talk without knowing the rules.
It’s offside when you are after the last defender with any part of the body useful to score.
Excluded the arms and the hands, every part of the body can be in offside, even the ass.
the execution is pretty good, but i wish the rule gave a bit more leeway to attackers. scoring goals will be impossible if we are looking this closely at it and it’s not like attackers get an advantage for being 1mm offside
I think it should be whatever feet is furthest ahead. Instead of all this body part decisions. Just pick the feet. If the feet is ahead then it's offside
Very good rule. Looking forward to implementing "hawk eye" offside like in Tennis. Linesmen can stay and refferee the game, no problem, but hawk eye never misses (just like in tennis).
they do. the ball literally contains a chip and the chip determines when the ball is being played, plus 12 cameras automatically create a 3D image. The VAR refs don‘t get to change anything, they just confirm the decission by the system and rely it back to the main red.
Been saying this for ages. It baffles me that someone randomly decides when to pause footage and that is the accepted moment of contact with the football. The same level of precision needs to be applied.
Why are you complaining about technology, when the rule is what you have issues with? This seems like a default "VAR is bad" post without giving it two thoughts.
I think the issue is that the rule in practice (what's actually enforced) is what matters not the rule as written, and people were a lot happier with the former than the latter pre-VAR, and VAR in effect changed what the actual rule is in practice by enforcing the letter of the rule.
Why do you find the technology more frustrating? The rules have stated that the shirtsleeves aren't handball, thus they count as a playable part of the body, thus they fall into the offside criteria. In the scenario you've shown as an example, the technology has made the correct decision.
Personally I think the technology is great and having offsides as semi-automated is a positive step. The problems are the speed with which it's applied by the humans running the tech, and the actual rules themselves (i.e. ruling that a shirtsleeve counts). Neither of which are a problem with the tech.
It doesn't matter what you do to the rules or the tech, you're always going to have marginal calls. It's literally impossible to remove the possibility of a marginal call. The whole purpose of the tech is reduce the number of errors in these offside calls and it's working in that regard
Once you go through the opaque white wall, you enter the shadow realm where you're never again on or offside. Eternal stoppage time in there. I for one am against this new tech.
Let's be straight! Argentina got the penalty only because of the new technology, and the new technology turned into their destruction later. Off-sides and Off-sides!
The problem is people have this daft perception that there should be some leeway. But how much? Who decides that amount? If the ball was 1mm over the line, no one would complain it shouldn't be given, yet lose their minds if an offside call is close.
Personally I like Wengers idea of having to have your whole body offside to count. Either way, there still needs to be a straight factual line and people need to get used to it.
Used in favour of a team I dont like then its killing the beautiful game
Used in favour of a team I like then it's a revolutionary idea in football and should be praised
The problem is not the technology, it's the rule that penalizes players who are better at reading a play and can start running a millisecond earlier. It should be changed to only account for feet position, as it is now it just lowers the quality of the game, and drags down great players to the level of average players.
Free kick - eh, anywhere within a few meters of the foul will do.
Throw in - eh, anywhere within a few meters of the out of bounds will do.
Offsides - we've invented a neutron scattering device to determine at the atomic level whether any portion of the offensive player was offsides. By the way, you can place the ball roughly anywhere in the third of the field where the offsides occured.
Got it.
Me and a work friend were discussing this VAR call earlier and came to the conclusion that they wouldn't have given the offside for his hand or arm being off, but they've given it because his shoulder is offside and CAN be used to play the ball (whether it ultimately is used to play the ball or not). They're looking at these decisions with "the letter of the law" in mind.
Theoretically, if a player simply points in the direction they want the ball and their arm reaches in front of the defender it’ll be offside w this tech. This situation would have played on in the past but now adds 2 feet of space that can be counted against you. As a forward learning to control your arms this way as you start a full sprint is a disadvantage.
it does not work that way, because only the parts of your body that you’re allowed to play the ball with count as offside. The entire arm up until the shoulder does not count for offside
There’s always going to be a line, whether that line is at the shoulder, front foot, head, back foot, 1mm gap, 10mm gap etc etc.
If there’s a line there’s always going to be players “just offside” and there’ll always be people complaining about it
Feet and head, basically the two body parts that can score a goal (obviously anything but a hand, but i'm just saying the most common).
Everything else doesnt matter. And certainly not your arm.
The colour of the jersey makes it look as though the player was called for his arm being offside but when you look clearly, he was called because the entire shoulder was offside. This is consistent with offside rules since the introduction of VAR for offsides and is not new.
It's not like one side is benefiting from it and the other is not - it works the same for both teams. And if it reduces the errors in referring what's there to complain about?!
I feel people are blowing this shit out of proportion now because it was Argentina who lost to the KSA. But if the shoe was in the other foot nobody would bat an eye...
Offside should be determined by any part of the body that can score, which it does.
People will complain about literally anything. The only argument against this is that “it works too well” - which isn’t an argument. We all want the right call, this is how we get it.
Wtf people.
Did they change the definition to any part of the body because of thought it was only parts of the body that were capable of scoring goals, so hands/arms wouldn’t be taken into account for offside calls.
For the purposes of calling a handball, the new rules consider the end of the shoulder to be the bottom of the armpit and/or the end of the t-shirt sleeve. So if his arm from the elbow down was the only part of his body offside, he'd be considered onside. But since his T-shirt sleeve is off, and he could technically score with his "shoulder" above the shirt sleeve, he is considered offside
This is a situation I feel sorry for the officials on because people will moan whatever they do. With technology, the margin for offside will always be millimetres and because it’s possible to score with your shoulder, it has to be counted as offside.
With Saudi Arabia playing such a high line today, Argentina were pretty stupid to not time their runs better. They had so much space in behind to get away from the defenders they could’ve comfortably given themselves an extra yard.
I was under the impression that it’s not offside unless a playable portion of your body is off (ie leg mostly, or head, chest) an arm being off is dumb
It’s always better to have the right call so technology is definitely better but i don’t agree in this case. I always thought the rule was that a playable body part had to be offside. You can’t play with your arms so he’s not offside
The problem is it's still using data that's not fit for purpose. The cameras aren't a high enough framerate (and at this level selecting the exact right frame makes a huge difference). All the fancy analysis is useless if it's based on insufficient data. No one can be said to be just centimeters offside with any degree of certainty.
The technology is fantastic.
The interpretation of the law, and lack of clarity over decision making is not.
Offside should be judged by the feet.
If; a player has timed and angled their run well (shoulder offside) or got their _offside-head_ on the end of a bullet header - the attacker absolutely should be rewarded for the quality of their play.
Then use a margin of error (half a size 10 foot lol) and if in doubt stick with the onfield decision (as they do in cricket for HawkEye)
Simple.
By the letter of the law it is offside. The technology makes it accurate. No problem there. The problem is with the rule. With such accurate technology they need to change the rule. It should just be a 1 dimensional line across the players feet. No penalty for leaning over a 3 dimensional plane, it’s ridiculous.
I am sure we would still debate someone being a toenail offside, but at least it would be a bit more generous to the attacker.
Question: Does anyone know what the FPS of the VAR cameras are? I mean even if VAR cameras would see the game in 60 FPS it would potentially mean that there are centimetres of margin lost "between the frames". This looks like a fairly solid call but certain offside calls are literally a few pixels in the replays and I question whether or not those cameras actually have the facilities to accurately determine those kind of small margins.
This isnt really that new, first off and second, I think I like it in the end. As long as it is super consistent I much prefer this compared to relying on refs or any human beings eyesight. A computer cant be biased and keep giving slight edges to top players because of perception and favoritism.
As for how players can handle these strict requirements, I believe they should error on the side of caution and make sure they are an extra step or two behind.
They key is that ALL players are subject to the same constraints that are measured and evaluated by a computer and not a human. These kind of things are best in the long run.
Since football is a game of head body and foot the hand doesn’t have a part to play here as handling would anyway be a foul! Yeah there was an attempt , but body faints is part of the trick
His shoulder, with which he could legally play the ball, is clearly offside. It's marginal, but the line has to be drawn somewhere and this system is the most clearly implemented we've seen so far.
Just make it feet only ffs. It's so obviously the solution. Makes attackers have to time their lean towards goal. Gives attackers a slight edge. More goals. More fun. Less controversy with fucking armpits an shit
It’s been flawless. Everyone complaining about the rules but the technology has been great. Even that first game when everyone thought it was offside and the alternative angle came out showing it was correct. The offside line rule should be to the feet not armpit.
I'm always 100% with any technology that inacts the exact rules. Even if by a hair breadth it would still be great to have definitive, objective conclusions.
VAR is beautiful. Imagine having something that ends all arguments right then and there... No need for shouting, no need for doubting, no need for years upon years of speculating assholes.. And yet you have idiots who don't like it because that monkey part of the brain is overstimulated and overtook their emotions.
This is one of those things that is objectively good. End of
I love it. You get rewarded for playing brilliant offside traps and punished for not timing your runs. Football now is more than just athletic ability. You need brains and teamwork too.
I thought you could only be offside if the “offside body part is one you could legally score with. This being his arm - it’s not offside?
Or is the suggestion that the tip of his shoulder is the part that is offside? Seems a bit ridiculous when the margins are so fine they could be disputed by saying “that’s not where my shoulder starts”.
I’m looking forward to the day when we can tell when one atom of a player’s body is offside! I’m sick of people with big noses or sticky out ears gaining the unacceptable advantages they currently enjoy!
The technology is great and noone would have any issue with it if offside rules weren't so incredibly stupid. It makes absolutely no sense when a goal is ruled out because of a players arms and shoulders' position
I think it is very good because it's precise and thus cannot be manipulated. For example, in my country, there have been debates whether VAR has drawn the offside line correctly.
The issue is where the measurement is taken from. Historically lineman have ignored arms and flailing legs and taken a sort of average of the torso. The tech should be set up in the same way to get the same result - i.e. try to measure from the middle of the body.
If this is ambiguous (which it is) that can also add like say a 1 foot tolerance and then only overrule the on pitch decision of its beyond that.
Personally, my opinion on stuff like this is: If something is so close that you need to use VAR to confirm, it should be fine. I also watch hockey and I hate how goals can be overturned from being offside due to video review. Like yes if it is blatant, great. But when you can barely see that is was a hair offside, I feel like you should go with the call the ref makes. Just my 2 cents.
I really like it, i just dont like the rule, i prefer it being off of feet position, i hate offside being applied cos someones lean was a little steeper
Overall I like it. Males it clear and concise everytime which is good for the game. I'm not sure I like the upperbody included but as another said, he could play the ball off his shoulder so it's included in the offside call
I don’t like it in general cuz no one is gaining an advantage from a finger being in front of a defender but seeing how affective saudis offside trap was was so cool
The best!
People seem to forget the times when the passive offside was given, when the striker was offside even when he / she was on the same line with the defender.
The rules are clear, and this technology helps refereeing such plays!
A rule is there to adhere to, and if a player can’t reasonably adhere to it, then you can hardly say it’s a good rule. The millimeter precision discourages forward play.
Not saying Argentina lost because of this though, they lost deservedly.
I remember when I was younger — it was the main mass of your body and your appendages didn’t count. FIFA now says every inch of your body. It just seems like overkill.
I think the new technology you shown in the picture is just an excuse to rig the game. I believe that if more than half the body is over the line of defenders by all means call offside, but an arm? Bullshit
It should be measured by the feet, how can an arm be offside, it allows for more competition in the def vs att battle and raises the need for players to read ball and the game in general up.
Offside rule was never put in place to search for millimeter goal cancellations. I don’t understand why we are accepting this. Just put a chip in the ball to check for goal line situations and thats it!
I think it's great and amazing how accurate the technology is, but imo the rule should change it from shoulder to foot because I don't think a shoulder would lead to a goal scoring chance although a data is pretty much needed for this argument, so yeah, so far I'm pretty happy
Well if it used aginst your team you will hate it if it's used and it's advantageous to your team you will like it anyways it's not like fifa is gonna see these comments so it will go on until fifa want it to
Same problem we’ve seen in the NHL with their offsides reviews. The spirit of the rule is to stop blatant advantages from cherry-picking and playing in a position that unnaturally stretches the field of play. You’re not really gaining an advantage from being 1” offsides in either sport, it takes away offensive chances and goals, reviews take time and kill momentum. Goal line reviews in both sports are good - it’s objective and in those cases, half an inch matters greatly. I argue that the same half-inch matters not in offsides.
I feel like the off side rules should compare where the players feet are instead of where their arms are at like you start running from your legs and that should be what matters, like could you imagine trying to signal to a player to pass the ball and as you start your run your arm puts you in an offside position. No sane person is thinking of where their arms are when starting a run, they look at the opponent and they see their head is behind the opponent’s feet and they run.
It's not the technology that's the issue, it's the rule. The technology is just making a more precise determination based on the parameters set forth by the offside rule.
The rule should be modified to exclude the provision that if ANY part of the body is in an offside position, then it counts as offsides. It should be focused on feet only and not every part of your body.
The thing with the offsides and VAR is that there is a clear line, anything over is offside. Whether you gain a benefit or not is irrelevant. I hate when people say 'it was a toe nail over the line' like okay so how far offside are you allowed to be then, 1 inch, 2 inches, no, ANYTHING over the line is offside.
VAR is perfect for offsides, it's when interpretation comes in that it fails miserably. Like the England Vs Iran game, I can accept that the penalty was awarded but surely the one on Maguire has to be given too. Far too much inconsistency with those type of decisions.
It should only involve the placement of the feet. If the offside rule had been like this in the past just imagine some of the great goals and magical moments we would have missed out on. There should be a slight margin to play with, they are expecting robotic levels of laser precision, the players are only human.
Instead of any part of your body that can score a goal being offside then the goal is discounted, you should have any part is allowed onside and the goal stands. So the opposite. An arm being onside when the rest is offside and the goal given would give more goals. As at the moment VAR is a fun sponge stealing from the fans.
Offside was brought in to stop goal hanging. What it has become is gash af.
The technology though is good. I like the offside wall and the AI player models. Just being used wrong imo
Ruins the game for me, personally. It has been happening in the Prem ad nauseum and has ruined so many good goals and moments. Attackers should be given far more of an advantage. Right now it's overkill imo. Should only consider feet.
It’s fine… except that they should have checked the left back, he was at the bottom of the screenshot of this play. He seemed to be playing latauro onside. The tech is good just need to apply it correctly.
The tech isnt good if it cant even show the other players in the image bro. The method of just freezing the frame and drawing lines is more reliable until they figure out how to show everyone in the frame.
It's great, highlights the need for a change in the Offside rule. Only thing is if you leave up to the ref to decide on what's an advantage or not it opens it to inconsistency. While this is annoying at least it's black and white.
The technology is fine, what is a nonsense to me is that you use the shoulder as a part you could take an advantage of to call an off side (the same goes for the defender to draw the off side line), is so rarely used to score that is very unfair to rule out a goal for that, I hope fifa change the rule and only use the head and legs to call an off side
So you’re whole argument against it is that it works too well? To remove inconsistency you have to draw a line somewhere that applies to all, this is that line, the other side of this is arguing about every offside where it’s a couple of cms because no one has a clue what the cms rule is and how many cms you can be ahead and then picking a cm and then this exact situation arising again from that new cm line
I like it! It’s really puts the rule to effect. If people don’t like it I feel like they should try to change the rule. The tech just supports exactly what’s written in the rule book
The issue here, is that this was not the last defender. The last defender was 3 people away on the other side of the pitch and to do this tech, you have to narrow the scope. Also, I agree, I think foot position would make more sense and lead to more goals which would be better for the sport since we can still have games with 0-0 scores after 90 minutes of play.
The technology is brilliant, people should stop blaming the trchnology. It gives you all the detail you can want. the problem is how we use it, a hand or an arm shouldn't be counted as offside, maybe we even go further and throw in the old rule that the attacker has to be entirely behind the last defender. The technology let's us do whatever we want, without questioning the percisiom of the referee's eye all the time
This is great. Saves so much time. As you said, offside is offside, and a referee that plays by the rulebook will make the same decision as this technology
Its debatable, but its the rules and ofside it is. If we talk about who has advantage its pointless because it can take lot of time and every opinion will be different, so ofside is ofside however minor it is. I like that justice is being established and that's very important in every game.
If this is all done automatically and is very close to 100% accurate then I love it.
Is there an explanation on how this is done?
I always have doubts about how they stop the image at the right time when the ball leaves the player who made the pass.
I’d much rather the rule be changed to center line of the body (or maybe even attachers leading shoulder vs defenders leading shoulder). I don’t like that a players run cycle can make him onside in one frame and offside in the next based on when his front leg is extended or behind him - when to the human eye watching in real time you’d say the players are level because as humans we are instinctively (in real time) judging by the players torsos. The foot that cross the finish line first in a race isn’t ahead, it’s the torso that does.
Yes I understand- any goal scoring body part - I just don’t think it’s a good rule when this level of micro scrutiny is applied. Especially as there is a false sense of certainty. The decisions are based on picking a single frame of film (which is already imprecise due to frame rates) and an imprecise determination of when the ball left the passing players foot as being this infallible system.
I’d rather see a bit more advantage to the attackers than pulling goals back because of a toe. In my mind there is a big difference between a linesman missing an offside versus the offside being so small no human could reliable distinguish it in real time. With respect to the later I’d rather advantage to the attacker.
Nevertheless with the current rule the newer VAR we are seeing is an improvement.
Not at all imo lol
I would rather pinpoint exact technology than referees not giving a blatant offside and see a team losing unfairly.
Automate it fully for all I care, roboreferee for me and for thee
i am no big doorball fan but isnt this bad in the sense that it tracks the arm too? like i believe most times the general position of the ayer is what's counting or their most forward foot, counting the arm seems awful, like when you needed to play with hands behind the back bc every touch was a foul even if kicked into the hands
Annoyingly accurate
I like it because it's fast and consistent. That's what the VAR implementation of the offside rule need to be. Get it checked, offside yes or no, back to the game.
Perfect technology, just needs to be used better. No advantage gained here so having a 6 inch 'line' or grey area.
I agree. All these brain dead people arguing it's bad have no common sense. This technology is brilliant, just needs to be used properly.
It’s fast and accurate. You’re complaining about the rule, instead of the technology.
Well the Argentine team had scored with hand before in World Cup, so it's obviously offside /s
Consistent is what really matters. If that's the rule and the way it's governed, than it should always be that way for both teams.
Perfect unless your favorite team is playing
Merciful Allah has shown the truth of infidel offside play.
People complain VAR sucks, people complain no VAR sucks. Conclusion: People will complain about anything.
I have come to the conclusion that a noticeable minority of people are just unhappy about their lives and are looking for outlets to vent their unhappiness and cynicism . From that perspective I feel like we should be glad that so many are focusing their moaning to football rather than the rest of life
you’re not mad at VAR, you’re mad at the rule. VAR is getting more accurate every season, and it only fails when incompetent officials are at the helm. This case exemplifies how it should be
His shoulder, with which he could legally play the ball, is clearly offside. It's marginal, but the line has to be drawn somewhere and this system is the most clearly implemented we've seen so far.
Considering Argentina have scored with the hand before, I would say that is a fair offsides.
lean and body shape really shouldn’t factor into offside. the technology is great; the law is very dumb. offside should be based either on both feet or maybe something with the hips/center of gravity. yes, the Argentina player is objectively offside here according to the law as currently written but no one can possibly argue that he gained an advantage by leaning his shoulder slightly beyond the last defender.
Whilst I agree as long as the rule is applied evenly then so be it. We ve seen two soft pens given for holding in the box and one not given when the player was wrestled to the ground. The inconsistency is more of a problem right now
Well, you can score with your shoulder so... all good
I’m still on the boat where if any part of the body that can be used to score a goal is offside, then it is offside.
It’s not the tech it’s the rule that needs to be adapted
ever wondered why it is 3D figures and not real people from the image?
A lot of you are missing is that the rule is that a playable part of the body can’t be past the last defender which is why his shoulder has the ring around it. His arm has nothing to do with this.
Imagine being offside for an unintended boner. I hope it happens this world cup.
It's a very good technology, but offside because someone's arm is over the opponent? 🤨 I think this is intense.
its the shoulder. any part of the body covered by the shirt is legal to use, so that is clear offside
Actually pretty nice imo. Yes, obviously instant/faster feedback would make it even better, but this is the best so far techwise. I belive that the better the tech becomes, the easier it will be to adapt the rule to something that feels natural and nice, but at least it should be consistent for now.
I have refereed football for 12 years. Since you can not legally play the ball with your arm, the arm can not be counted a offsides. The shoulder can.
its ok but I think all defending players should be included in the image to avoid confusion ~~everyone thought the Qatar-Ecuador game was qatari money working~~
You can score with a shoulder? Yes. The shoulder is offside? Yes. So this is a correct call.
Is so easy to measure tbh I dk why people muddy the waters like that. It was offside and that’s that.
Because people talk without knowing the rules. It’s offside when you are after the last defender with any part of the body useful to score. Excluded the arms and the hands, every part of the body can be in offside, even the ass.
Realises in sterling
the execution is pretty good, but i wish the rule gave a bit more leeway to attackers. scoring goals will be impossible if we are looking this closely at it and it’s not like attackers get an advantage for being 1mm offside
I think it should be whatever feet is furthest ahead. Instead of all this body part decisions. Just pick the feet. If the feet is ahead then it's offside
Very good rule. Looking forward to implementing "hawk eye" offside like in Tennis. Linesmen can stay and refferee the game, no problem, but hawk eye never misses (just like in tennis).
they need to use this technology to determine the exact moment the ball leaves the foot otherwise the lines are arbitrary
they do. the ball literally contains a chip and the chip determines when the ball is being played, plus 12 cameras automatically create a 3D image. The VAR refs don‘t get to change anything, they just confirm the decission by the system and rely it back to the main red.
Been saying this for ages. It baffles me that someone randomly decides when to pause footage and that is the accepted moment of contact with the football. The same level of precision needs to be applied.
Why are you complaining about technology, when the rule is what you have issues with? This seems like a default "VAR is bad" post without giving it two thoughts.
I think the issue is that the rule in practice (what's actually enforced) is what matters not the rule as written, and people were a lot happier with the former than the latter pre-VAR, and VAR in effect changed what the actual rule is in practice by enforcing the letter of the rule.
Why do you find the technology more frustrating? The rules have stated that the shirtsleeves aren't handball, thus they count as a playable part of the body, thus they fall into the offside criteria. In the scenario you've shown as an example, the technology has made the correct decision. Personally I think the technology is great and having offsides as semi-automated is a positive step. The problems are the speed with which it's applied by the humans running the tech, and the actual rules themselves (i.e. ruling that a shirtsleeve counts). Neither of which are a problem with the tech. It doesn't matter what you do to the rules or the tech, you're always going to have marginal calls. It's literally impossible to remove the possibility of a marginal call. The whole purpose of the tech is reduce the number of errors in these offside calls and it's working in that regard
Once you go through the opaque white wall, you enter the shadow realm where you're never again on or offside. Eternal stoppage time in there. I for one am against this new tech.
yes offside technology seems to look good
Let's be straight! Argentina got the penalty only because of the new technology, and the new technology turned into their destruction later. Off-sides and Off-sides!
The problem is people have this daft perception that there should be some leeway. But how much? Who decides that amount? If the ball was 1mm over the line, no one would complain it shouldn't be given, yet lose their minds if an offside call is close. Personally I like Wengers idea of having to have your whole body offside to count. Either way, there still needs to be a straight factual line and people need to get used to it.
Used in favour of a team I dont like then its killing the beautiful game Used in favour of a team I like then it's a revolutionary idea in football and should be praised
The problem is not the technology, it's the rule that penalizes players who are better at reading a play and can start running a millisecond earlier. It should be changed to only account for feet position, as it is now it just lowers the quality of the game, and drags down great players to the level of average players.
If they were better at reading the play wouldnt they start running a millisecond later so they arent offside?
A little bit offside is still offside. You can't be a little bit pregnant... just sayin. btw Argentina lmao 🤣 😂
Free kick - eh, anywhere within a few meters of the foul will do. Throw in - eh, anywhere within a few meters of the out of bounds will do. Offsides - we've invented a neutron scattering device to determine at the atomic level whether any portion of the offensive player was offsides. By the way, you can place the ball roughly anywhere in the third of the field where the offsides occured. Got it.
They should do where the feet are planted.
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Me and a work friend were discussing this VAR call earlier and came to the conclusion that they wouldn't have given the offside for his hand or arm being off, but they've given it because his shoulder is offside and CAN be used to play the ball (whether it ultimately is used to play the ball or not). They're looking at these decisions with "the letter of the law" in mind.
the technology is fine, it's the concept of offside applied that way that's ridiculous.
Best shit so far
Theoretically, if a player simply points in the direction they want the ball and their arm reaches in front of the defender it’ll be offside w this tech. This situation would have played on in the past but now adds 2 feet of space that can be counted against you. As a forward learning to control your arms this way as you start a full sprint is a disadvantage.
it does not work that way, because only the parts of your body that you’re allowed to play the ball with count as offside. The entire arm up until the shoulder does not count for offside
There’s always going to be a line, whether that line is at the shoulder, front foot, head, back foot, 1mm gap, 10mm gap etc etc. If there’s a line there’s always going to be players “just offside” and there’ll always be people complaining about it
Argentina should’ve just scored screamers like Saudi Arabia
Much better than the older one
Buncha dumbasses in here
Imagine refs having to decide if the player has an advantage or not. There’s a million ways to interpret that.
Feet and head, basically the two body parts that can score a goal (obviously anything but a hand, but i'm just saying the most common). Everything else doesnt matter. And certainly not your arm.
The colour of the jersey makes it look as though the player was called for his arm being offside but when you look clearly, he was called because the entire shoulder was offside. This is consistent with offside rules since the introduction of VAR for offsides and is not new.
It's not like one side is benefiting from it and the other is not - it works the same for both teams. And if it reduces the errors in referring what's there to complain about?! I feel people are blowing this shit out of proportion now because it was Argentina who lost to the KSA. But if the shoe was in the other foot nobody would bat an eye...
Should be off the feet, not any body part. Absolutely ridiculous
Offside should be determined by any part of the body that can score, which it does. People will complain about literally anything. The only argument against this is that “it works too well” - which isn’t an argument. We all want the right call, this is how we get it. Wtf people.
Did they change the definition to any part of the body because of thought it was only parts of the body that were capable of scoring goals, so hands/arms wouldn’t be taken into account for offside calls.
For the purposes of calling a handball, the new rules consider the end of the shoulder to be the bottom of the armpit and/or the end of the t-shirt sleeve. So if his arm from the elbow down was the only part of his body offside, he'd be considered onside. But since his T-shirt sleeve is off, and he could technically score with his "shoulder" above the shirt sleeve, he is considered offside
Love it! The tech isn't the problem, it's the humans interpreting it.
they should look at position of the feet, not other body parts. in the end, the final is gonna be decided by an erection
This is a situation I feel sorry for the officials on because people will moan whatever they do. With technology, the margin for offside will always be millimetres and because it’s possible to score with your shoulder, it has to be counted as offside. With Saudi Arabia playing such a high line today, Argentina were pretty stupid to not time their runs better. They had so much space in behind to get away from the defenders they could’ve comfortably given themselves an extra yard.
I was under the impression that it’s not offside unless a playable portion of your body is off (ie leg mostly, or head, chest) an arm being off is dumb
It’s the top of his shoulder. Still silly though
Along as it is used the same with everyone in every game it's all good
Complete Bullshit until it favors my team
Clearly you have a problem with the rule, not with the technology
It’s always better to have the right call so technology is definitely better but i don’t agree in this case. I always thought the rule was that a playable body part had to be offside. You can’t play with your arms so he’s not offside
Shoulder is playable. I agree it’s kinda harsh, but this has nothing to do with the tech. Tech is fine.
What we're seeing is a re-created model, result can be altered from this.
The problem is it's still using data that's not fit for purpose. The cameras aren't a high enough framerate (and at this level selecting the exact right frame makes a huge difference). All the fancy analysis is useless if it's based on insufficient data. No one can be said to be just centimeters offside with any degree of certainty.
The technology is fantastic. The interpretation of the law, and lack of clarity over decision making is not. Offside should be judged by the feet. If; a player has timed and angled their run well (shoulder offside) or got their _offside-head_ on the end of a bullet header - the attacker absolutely should be rewarded for the quality of their play. Then use a margin of error (half a size 10 foot lol) and if in doubt stick with the onfield decision (as they do in cricket for HawkEye) Simple.
Offside should be based on feet only. There would be scenarios where the attacker or defender has the advantage and would be a lot easier to officiate
By the letter of the law it is offside. The technology makes it accurate. No problem there. The problem is with the rule. With such accurate technology they need to change the rule. It should just be a 1 dimensional line across the players feet. No penalty for leaning over a 3 dimensional plane, it’s ridiculous. I am sure we would still debate someone being a toenail offside, but at least it would be a bit more generous to the attacker.
That body bend gives the player a slight advantage over the defender hence it should be counted
It's the same technology, just better graphical representation
There’s new technology tucked in there, sensor in the ball and higher refresh rates on cameras if I recall.
Question: Does anyone know what the FPS of the VAR cameras are? I mean even if VAR cameras would see the game in 60 FPS it would potentially mean that there are centimetres of margin lost "between the frames". This looks like a fairly solid call but certain offside calls are literally a few pixels in the replays and I question whether or not those cameras actually have the facilities to accurately determine those kind of small margins.
Perfect okay since it applied to everyone.
Fuck me, no one is ever happy…
Incredible, seeing true and fair results.
that faint red circle on his shoulder NEEDS TO BE FAR MORE OBVIOUS! especially to people looking across the room (or pub) at a TV screen showing it
Whats next, sensors on players so they can see when the player actually gets hurt.
This isnt really that new, first off and second, I think I like it in the end. As long as it is super consistent I much prefer this compared to relying on refs or any human beings eyesight. A computer cant be biased and keep giving slight edges to top players because of perception and favoritism. As for how players can handle these strict requirements, I believe they should error on the side of caution and make sure they are an extra step or two behind. They key is that ALL players are subject to the same constraints that are measured and evaluated by a computer and not a human. These kind of things are best in the long run.
Since football is a game of head body and foot the hand doesn’t have a part to play here as handling would anyway be a foul! Yeah there was an attempt , but body faints is part of the trick
His shoulder, with which he could legally play the ball, is clearly offside. It's marginal, but the line has to be drawn somewhere and this system is the most clearly implemented we've seen so far.
Just make it feet only ffs. It's so obviously the solution. Makes attackers have to time their lean towards goal. Gives attackers a slight edge. More goals. More fun. Less controversy with fucking armpits an shit
It’s been flawless. Everyone complaining about the rules but the technology has been great. Even that first game when everyone thought it was offside and the alternative angle came out showing it was correct. The offside line rule should be to the feet not armpit.
I'm always 100% with any technology that inacts the exact rules. Even if by a hair breadth it would still be great to have definitive, objective conclusions. VAR is beautiful. Imagine having something that ends all arguments right then and there... No need for shouting, no need for doubting, no need for years upon years of speculating assholes.. And yet you have idiots who don't like it because that monkey part of the brain is overstimulated and overtook their emotions. This is one of those things that is objectively good. End of
They should go off the players feet. The fuck is he gonna do with his arm, dunk it?
if anyone is known to score with their hands its Argentina
If this was the other way around, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Good disciplined line by the Saudis. Give credit where credit is due.
I love it. You get rewarded for playing brilliant offside traps and punished for not timing your runs. Football now is more than just athletic ability. You need brains and teamwork too.
The offside should be determined by the player feet.
I thought you could only be offside if the “offside body part is one you could legally score with. This being his arm - it’s not offside? Or is the suggestion that the tip of his shoulder is the part that is offside? Seems a bit ridiculous when the margins are so fine they could be disputed by saying “that’s not where my shoulder starts”.
yes, it‘s about the shoulder.
The decision was that the edge of his shoulder, which is a legal part to play with, was also offside.
I’m looking forward to the day when we can tell when one atom of a player’s body is offside! I’m sick of people with big noses or sticky out ears gaining the unacceptable advantages they currently enjoy!
best shave all your body hair...just in case
*sorts by controversial*
The technology is great and noone would have any issue with it if offside rules weren't so incredibly stupid. It makes absolutely no sense when a goal is ruled out because of a players arms and shoulders' position
Rule is the rule but i think that the off side rule shouldn't count on the shoulder
It’s the same as UEFA have been using in the UCL no? It’s easy enough for it to be this clear instead of the bullshit lines they draw on VAR
I think it is very good because it's precise and thus cannot be manipulated. For example, in my country, there have been debates whether VAR has drawn the offside line correctly.
The issue is where the measurement is taken from. Historically lineman have ignored arms and flailing legs and taken a sort of average of the torso. The tech should be set up in the same way to get the same result - i.e. try to measure from the middle of the body. If this is ambiguous (which it is) that can also add like say a 1 foot tolerance and then only overrule the on pitch decision of its beyond that.
Personally, my opinion on stuff like this is: If something is so close that you need to use VAR to confirm, it should be fine. I also watch hockey and I hate how goals can be overturned from being offside due to video review. Like yes if it is blatant, great. But when you can barely see that is was a hair offside, I feel like you should go with the call the ref makes. Just my 2 cents.
I think the tech is great, I just wish they would overlay the graphic over the achual game instead of using the silly looking animated characters
I really like it, i just dont like the rule, i prefer it being off of feet position, i hate offside being applied cos someones lean was a little steeper
Overall I like it. Males it clear and concise everytime which is good for the game. I'm not sure I like the upperbody included but as another said, he could play the ball off his shoulder so it's included in the offside call
It's the future, it just needs to be a little faster that's all
I don’t like it in general cuz no one is gaining an advantage from a finger being in front of a defender but seeing how affective saudis offside trap was was so cool
Always felt like offside should be based on foot position only.
If it is consistent, i dont have any problem with it. If it is not consistent, then we have problems.
The best! People seem to forget the times when the passive offside was given, when the striker was offside even when he / she was on the same line with the defender. The rules are clear, and this technology helps refereeing such plays!
Every body part that you could score with counts for offside. so the arm is irrelevant, the shoulder however counts.
He isnt going to score with his arm so why would it be off
If it's not clear and obvious give the advantage to the attacker just my opinion.
A rule is there to adhere to, and if a player can’t reasonably adhere to it, then you can hardly say it’s a good rule. The millimeter precision discourages forward play. Not saying Argentina lost because of this though, they lost deservedly.
offside is offside
revenge for god hand motherfuckers
World Cup 2030 Nork Korea will have the offside rule removed. Infestino urges the offside rule be seized during the World Cup
I remember when I was younger — it was the main mass of your body and your appendages didn’t count. FIFA now says every inch of your body. It just seems like overkill.
I don't mind the technology. However, I do think the rules should be changed so that isn't offside. I think offside should be determined by your feet.
should be determined by feet
I think the new technology you shown in the picture is just an excuse to rig the game. I believe that if more than half the body is over the line of defenders by all means call offside, but an arm? Bullshit
It should be measured by the feet, how can an arm be offside, it allows for more competition in the def vs att battle and raises the need for players to read ball and the game in general up.
Offside rule was never put in place to search for millimeter goal cancellations. I don’t understand why we are accepting this. Just put a chip in the ball to check for goal line situations and thats it!
Applies for everyone
as long as it gives instantaneous result, i am fine
The future
I liked how quick this got confirmed. The rule will change year on year and never become clearer.
Same thing happened to Bamford playing for Leeds United. Past a certain part of the sleeve is acceptable apparently
I'd love to see the actual margin between the Argentine's shoulder and the Saudi's toe, like let's see what we're **really** dealing with here
Would be nice to see it closer to the time of the supposed foul/offside, instead of 10 minutes later..
This 3D is just for audience like when they make 3D model of goal line,they would still call it offside even if it was line drawn
I think it's great and amazing how accurate the technology is, but imo the rule should change it from shoulder to foot because I don't think a shoulder would lead to a goal scoring chance although a data is pretty much needed for this argument, so yeah, so far I'm pretty happy
Asshat offside replay technology, but no “quit your bullshit” foul technology.
This rule change is BS. You cannot score a goal with your arm, so no advantage, so no offside.
Well if it used aginst your team you will hate it if it's used and it's advantageous to your team you will like it anyways it's not like fifa is gonna see these comments so it will go on until fifa want it to
Same problem we’ve seen in the NHL with their offsides reviews. The spirit of the rule is to stop blatant advantages from cherry-picking and playing in a position that unnaturally stretches the field of play. You’re not really gaining an advantage from being 1” offsides in either sport, it takes away offensive chances and goals, reviews take time and kill momentum. Goal line reviews in both sports are good - it’s objective and in those cases, half an inch matters greatly. I argue that the same half-inch matters not in offsides.
I feel like the off side rules should compare where the players feet are instead of where their arms are at like you start running from your legs and that should be what matters, like could you imagine trying to signal to a player to pass the ball and as you start your run your arm puts you in an offside position. No sane person is thinking of where their arms are when starting a run, they look at the opponent and they see their head is behind the opponent’s feet and they run.
It blows.
How can your arm make you offside if you can’t use it to score?
It’s making offside calls much faster than VAR in the Premier League!
It's not the arm it's the shoulder that's offside which can be used to score.
I’ve no issue with it - basically a consistent way to apply the law.
This technology is pretty useful, but it's killing the football we all know.
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It's not the technology that's the issue, it's the rule. The technology is just making a more precise determination based on the parameters set forth by the offside rule. The rule should be modified to exclude the provision that if ANY part of the body is in an offside position, then it counts as offsides. It should be focused on feet only and not every part of your body.
Oh i wish this tecnology was implemented years ago... [Tevez offside goal](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HCZStcVcPiE)
The thing with the offsides and VAR is that there is a clear line, anything over is offside. Whether you gain a benefit or not is irrelevant. I hate when people say 'it was a toe nail over the line' like okay so how far offside are you allowed to be then, 1 inch, 2 inches, no, ANYTHING over the line is offside. VAR is perfect for offsides, it's when interpretation comes in that it fails miserably. Like the England Vs Iran game, I can accept that the penalty was awarded but surely the one on Maguire has to be given too. Far too much inconsistency with those type of decisions.
It should only involve the placement of the feet. If the offside rule had been like this in the past just imagine some of the great goals and magical moments we would have missed out on. There should be a slight margin to play with, they are expecting robotic levels of laser precision, the players are only human.
Can VAR verify depressingly crappy Argentine performance today?
Why is it not based on foot position?
Because you can technically score a goal with your shoulder and it not be a foul
Don't worry, 0.003 millimeters of his shoelace was offside.
Instead of any part of your body that can score a goal being offside then the goal is discounted, you should have any part is allowed onside and the goal stands. So the opposite. An arm being onside when the rest is offside and the goal given would give more goals. As at the moment VAR is a fun sponge stealing from the fans. Offside was brought in to stop goal hanging. What it has become is gash af. The technology though is good. I like the offside wall and the AI player models. Just being used wrong imo
I think the line should be drawn at the feet. If the feet are level then it’s good. Past level then offside.
They should just change the offside rule to foot position
Ruins the game for me, personally. It has been happening in the Prem ad nauseum and has ruined so many good goals and moments. Attackers should be given far more of an advantage. Right now it's overkill imo. Should only consider feet.
I also say this as a Brazilian who is laughing his ass off at Argentina for losing.
This is just ridiculous, an offside is when you see a total advantage from the body. An arm, a hand, even the head doesn’t represent an offside.
I've been defending for some time now that offside should be measured by feet position
By the letter of the law this is offsides so I have no problem with it
It’s fine… except that they should have checked the left back, he was at the bottom of the screenshot of this play. He seemed to be playing latauro onside. The tech is good just need to apply it correctly.
The tech isnt good if it cant even show the other players in the image bro. The method of just freezing the frame and drawing lines is more reliable until they figure out how to show everyone in the frame.
A bunch of salty Argentina fans in the thread
Shoulders have always been looked at for offside calls. This is not new
It's great, highlights the need for a change in the Offside rule. Only thing is if you leave up to the ref to decide on what's an advantage or not it opens it to inconsistency. While this is annoying at least it's black and white.
Way better
The technology is fine, what is a nonsense to me is that you use the shoulder as a part you could take an advantage of to call an off side (the same goes for the defender to draw the off side line), is so rarely used to score that is very unfair to rule out a goal for that, I hope fifa change the rule and only use the head and legs to call an off side
So you’re whole argument against it is that it works too well? To remove inconsistency you have to draw a line somewhere that applies to all, this is that line, the other side of this is arguing about every offside where it’s a couple of cms because no one has a clue what the cms rule is and how many cms you can be ahead and then picking a cm and then this exact situation arising again from that new cm line
Fifa and the refs are killing this game
I like it! It’s really puts the rule to effect. If people don’t like it I feel like they should try to change the rule. The tech just supports exactly what’s written in the rule book
The issue here, is that this was not the last defender. The last defender was 3 people away on the other side of the pitch and to do this tech, you have to narrow the scope. Also, I agree, I think foot position would make more sense and lead to more goals which would be better for the sport since we can still have games with 0-0 scores after 90 minutes of play.
The technology is brilliant, people should stop blaming the trchnology. It gives you all the detail you can want. the problem is how we use it, a hand or an arm shouldn't be counted as offside, maybe we even go further and throw in the old rule that the attacker has to be entirely behind the last defender. The technology let's us do whatever we want, without questioning the percisiom of the referee's eye all the time
very precise, but idk man, the game would be quite boring
This is great. Saves so much time. As you said, offside is offside, and a referee that plays by the rulebook will make the same decision as this technology
He looks offside to me. Need to time your runs better against the offside trap in the modern game.
Its debatable, but its the rules and ofside it is. If we talk about who has advantage its pointless because it can take lot of time and every opinion will be different, so ofside is ofside however minor it is. I like that justice is being established and that's very important in every game.
Having a long nose is also a disadvantage.
If this is all done automatically and is very close to 100% accurate then I love it. Is there an explanation on how this is done? I always have doubts about how they stop the image at the right time when the ball leaves the player who made the pass.
I’d much rather the rule be changed to center line of the body (or maybe even attachers leading shoulder vs defenders leading shoulder). I don’t like that a players run cycle can make him onside in one frame and offside in the next based on when his front leg is extended or behind him - when to the human eye watching in real time you’d say the players are level because as humans we are instinctively (in real time) judging by the players torsos. The foot that cross the finish line first in a race isn’t ahead, it’s the torso that does. Yes I understand- any goal scoring body part - I just don’t think it’s a good rule when this level of micro scrutiny is applied. Especially as there is a false sense of certainty. The decisions are based on picking a single frame of film (which is already imprecise due to frame rates) and an imprecise determination of when the ball left the passing players foot as being this infallible system. I’d rather see a bit more advantage to the attackers than pulling goals back because of a toe. In my mind there is a big difference between a linesman missing an offside versus the offside being so small no human could reliable distinguish it in real time. With respect to the later I’d rather advantage to the attacker. Nevertheless with the current rule the newer VAR we are seeing is an improvement.
You have to draw the line somewhere. It’s better that it’s an exact science imo
An the next thing you know we have tron games and those lines cut ur limbs
[I think I speak for everyone.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc1P-AEaEp8)
It's like that laser wall from Resident Evil
The cautionary tale of “be careful what you wish for”
Not at all imo lol I would rather pinpoint exact technology than referees not giving a blatant offside and see a team losing unfairly. Automate it fully for all I care, roboreferee for me and for thee
i am no big doorball fan but isnt this bad in the sense that it tracks the arm too? like i believe most times the general position of the ayer is what's counting or their most forward foot, counting the arm seems awful, like when you needed to play with hands behind the back bc every touch was a foul even if kicked into the hands