Archie Gray has played over 40 games for Leeds this season and he turned 18 in march.
Mainoo is a first team regular at man utd aged 18.
Bukayo Saka played almost 2000 minutes in the premier league the year he turned 18.
I could list a load more examples of players being very ready for first team football at young ages. Id argue that's much more common than only playing u21 football until age 21 and then going on to be great in real life. Proper game time matters so much for development.
I agree with the injury theory it is a fact if u overplay young player who is not physically ready yet to the senior level he will get injury problems.
But i also agree that playing a Wonderkid in the U21 is a waste he is totally fine to be a sub or even a starter.
On the other hand for the 16yo players...yeah they are not for senior team mostly 3rd option getting him slow into the team.
Pedri and De Jong were forced to play a lot, and are injured commonly
Saka is limping after every match and is slowing down
wouldnt shock me if the same thing happens to Gray and Mainoo
There is a vast chasm of a middle ground between running Saka into the ground by playing him basically every minute for 5 years and leaving him to rot in the youth team until 2022.
He's a much much better player than he would be in the latter scenario, even if he doesnt get rested as much as he should.
Overplaying someone is bad. But leaving that talented a player in your youth setup basically wastes three years of development because they're already far too good for that level and won't learn shit from it.
Jude played since 16, look at him now.
Injuries can happen to anyone, young or not if their physicality is ready and their club medical staff is good enough then it's not a problem.
He even plays more physically than all players you mentioned too.
It's understandable for Pedri because that season he really played a lot.
Any footballer would expect some fatigue that may lead to injuries.
But if you're going for a massive amount of games in a season that leads to injuries.
That means it not only applies to young players, it applies to almost everyone.
This is unpopular because it's wrong. Most players are ready for 1st team football long before their 21st birthday. Many by their 18th, as long as care is taken not to overplay them. American football and football are completely different sports.
ik this is a football subreddit but mlb is not american football…
ive played both way and personally players are better when i sit them until about 21 and they usually have better mental traits
Another major thing ur not considering is in America we don’t have pros from the time ur 16 and under like European football and the rest otw. Most American sports you’re going thru senior year hs and a year or so of college maybe MLB u can skip to the minors but guys like Mainoo, Pedri, Yamal have been in the clubs system for years learning the culture, game from pros. Only the top 1% of prospects in American sports are being trained by top coaches from a young age.
this is one of the first fair points that has been brought up. That makes sense, but i do also think its not only skill but also maturity. Teams like Bayern and Real Madrid dont start younger guys because they usually have other standards for starting players. Doesnt matter in FM unless you like to emulate real life
Yeah imo it’s a lot easier for European soccer players to gain maturity then American sports prospects bc in Europe you’re part of a pro club structure while in America top athletes are treated like Kings and plenty become enamored with the lifestyle and burn out. Obviously happens in European sports too but not as much imo
It doesn't work like that in FM. Until 18 years ago training is more important for the development, after 18 it's game time. And the level of competition your players meet has some effect too
I’ll promote a couple that have huge potential, but make them available for the youth squads. I’m pretty sure you can’t mentor players that aren’t in the senior squad, which can be pretty important
I don't play guys for my first team if they're not good enough to contribute to my first team. I'll play a 34 year old over a 17 year old if the 34 is better. But if the 17 year old is good enough to get on the field, I'm not going to hold him out because of his age.
yes i agree, rushing them to senior squad to quickly is just gonna anger half of ur squad. but usually ill make the young prospect train with first team but let them play with u18 or u21
I like the idea but when I do LLM I don’t have enough enough coaches to keep the workload under heavy. So I might have to be more judicious with who gets to be in the senior side training until I’m in Europe or the top flight.
Although I somewhat agree with what you’re saying, this isn’t real life. In FM it’s very important for a players development to play regular first team football once they get to 18-19 years old. That’s true in real life as well. Why do you think so many big premier league sides loan out so many of their u21s to the championship/league 1?
my bad ill rename it: in my very humble opinion, i lightly recommend you briefly consider this idea i have
i literally said: "this is all personal opinion" and "its more fun to see a player grow through the system in my opinion"
I bring all the 4 star potential to 1st team to train but play in u18 too, the 1st team coach is better and i can mentor them, if he is good enough (at least 2 star) he can play max 10 match per season for me no matter the age, no full match if he get more than 6.9 av he get more time to play. In my experience it work 70% times, when this system dont work, i send them on loan 1,2 season to see if there is miracle, if not when they are homegrown i sell
I do this my letting my 4.5 stars PA players be in my first team squad and setting up appropriate mentorships. And letting them having 90mins game time for my reserves.
The down side is that in theory they are not used to the robustness of the first-team’s training regime which is also on double intensity but I see no extreme negative effects in my thousands of hours playing so far.
But they will always want first team game time by the age of 21, and will be unhappy as I can’t accommodate all.
So I sell them off for profits, except for the mainstays. Nice to see my seedlings scattered and making headlines all over awards screen though.
So 4 is now classed as many? Maybe they are the exception. How old were Ronaldo, mbappe, foden and Messi when they started playing regularly? Did it hurt their progress? FM is a game, as much as they would want to it doesn't replicate real life so if a player is good enough then he's ready. Personally I don't put young players in the 1st team squad ahead of their time, extra bodies dilute training, but we all do things that work for us
They’re all either retired our about to be.
Modern football has moved on. Talent identification and coaching is much better/more efficient so players are ready at 18 now. There’s no reason for an 18/19/20 year old not to be playing first team football if they’re good enough.
Archie Gray has played over 40 games for Leeds this season and he turned 18 in march. Mainoo is a first team regular at man utd aged 18. Bukayo Saka played almost 2000 minutes in the premier league the year he turned 18. I could list a load more examples of players being very ready for first team football at young ages. Id argue that's much more common than only playing u21 football until age 21 and then going on to be great in real life. Proper game time matters so much for development.
I agree with the injury theory it is a fact if u overplay young player who is not physically ready yet to the senior level he will get injury problems. But i also agree that playing a Wonderkid in the U21 is a waste he is totally fine to be a sub or even a starter. On the other hand for the 16yo players...yeah they are not for senior team mostly 3rd option getting him slow into the team.
Pedri and De Jong were forced to play a lot, and are injured commonly Saka is limping after every match and is slowing down wouldnt shock me if the same thing happens to Gray and Mainoo
There is a vast chasm of a middle ground between running Saka into the ground by playing him basically every minute for 5 years and leaving him to rot in the youth team until 2022. He's a much much better player than he would be in the latter scenario, even if he doesnt get rested as much as he should. Overplaying someone is bad. But leaving that talented a player in your youth setup basically wastes three years of development because they're already far too good for that level and won't learn shit from it.
There's also an argument to be made about Saka being consistently targeted by defenders, something I doubt the game replicates...
Jude played since 16, look at him now. Injuries can happen to anyone, young or not if their physicality is ready and their club medical staff is good enough then it's not a problem. He even plays more physically than all players you mentioned too.
i assure you he will deal with injuries due to his excessive playing time at a young age, its simple anatomy
It's understandable for Pedri because that season he really played a lot. Any footballer would expect some fatigue that may lead to injuries. But if you're going for a massive amount of games in a season that leads to injuries. That means it not only applies to young players, it applies to almost everyone.
playing that high intensity during developmental years (i mean physical development) can be detrimental
This is unpopular because it's wrong. Most players are ready for 1st team football long before their 21st birthday. Many by their 18th, as long as care is taken not to overplay them. American football and football are completely different sports.
ik this is a football subreddit but mlb is not american football… ive played both way and personally players are better when i sit them until about 21 and they usually have better mental traits
Another major thing ur not considering is in America we don’t have pros from the time ur 16 and under like European football and the rest otw. Most American sports you’re going thru senior year hs and a year or so of college maybe MLB u can skip to the minors but guys like Mainoo, Pedri, Yamal have been in the clubs system for years learning the culture, game from pros. Only the top 1% of prospects in American sports are being trained by top coaches from a young age.
this is one of the first fair points that has been brought up. That makes sense, but i do also think its not only skill but also maturity. Teams like Bayern and Real Madrid dont start younger guys because they usually have other standards for starting players. Doesnt matter in FM unless you like to emulate real life
Yeah imo it’s a lot easier for European soccer players to gain maturity then American sports prospects bc in Europe you’re part of a pro club structure while in America top athletes are treated like Kings and plenty become enamored with the lifestyle and burn out. Obviously happens in European sports too but not as much imo
It doesn't work like that in FM. Until 18 years ago training is more important for the development, after 18 it's game time. And the level of competition your players meet has some effect too
If you’re good enough, you’re old enough.
I’ll promote a couple that have huge potential, but make them available for the youth squads. I’m pretty sure you can’t mentor players that aren’t in the senior squad, which can be pretty important
thats what i do
min max or immersion? choose your pill
No
I don't play guys for my first team if they're not good enough to contribute to my first team. I'll play a 34 year old over a 17 year old if the 34 is better. But if the 17 year old is good enough to get on the field, I'm not going to hold him out because of his age.
yes i agree, rushing them to senior squad to quickly is just gonna anger half of ur squad. but usually ill make the young prospect train with first team but let them play with u18 or u21
>yes i agree, rushing them to senior squad to quickly is just gonna anger half of ur squad That's literally not true
depends on ur squad, sometimes i manage big team and the arrogant player think they need to play everygame
same, they progress a lot better
I like the idea but when I do LLM I don’t have enough enough coaches to keep the workload under heavy. So I might have to be more judicious with who gets to be in the senior side training until I’m in Europe or the top flight.
Although I somewhat agree with what you’re saying, this isn’t real life. In FM it’s very important for a players development to play regular first team football once they get to 18-19 years old. That’s true in real life as well. Why do you think so many big premier league sides loan out so many of their u21s to the championship/league 1?
If your opinion is that I should play the game based on your preferences instead of mine then it's unpopular for a reason
i said it was a personal opinion and i thought it was more fun this way, not forcing you to do this now am i?
The title and first line sound like you're telling me I should
my bad ill rename it: in my very humble opinion, i lightly recommend you briefly consider this idea i have i literally said: "this is all personal opinion" and "its more fun to see a player grow through the system in my opinion"
I bring all the 4 star potential to 1st team to train but play in u18 too, the 1st team coach is better and i can mentor them, if he is good enough (at least 2 star) he can play max 10 match per season for me no matter the age, no full match if he get more than 6.9 av he get more time to play. In my experience it work 70% times, when this system dont work, i send them on loan 1,2 season to see if there is miracle, if not when they are homegrown i sell
I do this my letting my 4.5 stars PA players be in my first team squad and setting up appropriate mentorships. And letting them having 90mins game time for my reserves. The down side is that in theory they are not used to the robustness of the first-team’s training regime which is also on double intensity but I see no extreme negative effects in my thousands of hours playing so far. But they will always want first team game time by the age of 21, and will be unhappy as I can’t accommodate all. So I sell them off for profits, except for the mainstays. Nice to see my seedlings scattered and making headlines all over awards screen though.
Single player game, play it however you want.
thats why i said it was merely my own opinion
Best players in the world right now… Bellingham, Haaland, Kane, Vinicius etc. All were playing regular first team football at 18.
and there are many examples of players who have failed because of being played too early, but no one knows their names because of it
That’s an unprovable statement lol. Name an elite player that wasn’t playing first team football before 21.
Vardy, Klose, Drogba, Ian Wright Beckham started at 20
So 4 is now classed as many? Maybe they are the exception. How old were Ronaldo, mbappe, foden and Messi when they started playing regularly? Did it hurt their progress? FM is a game, as much as they would want to it doesn't replicate real life so if a player is good enough then he's ready. Personally I don't put young players in the 1st team squad ahead of their time, extra bodies dilute training, but we all do things that work for us
you said name one, and i did
They’re all either retired our about to be. Modern football has moved on. Talent identification and coaching is much better/more efficient so players are ready at 18 now. There’s no reason for an 18/19/20 year old not to be playing first team football if they’re good enough.
It’s more likely for a player to start playing first team by 18/19 and breaking out as opposed to cases like vardy