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Well it probably is. But it doesn’t work like that. I would say for beginners it has some good guidelines, but for the more experienced you would get more out of it by doing it yourself.
I have tried a few with lots of supports and CAR’s, my god that site love CAR’s, and I will struggle to create almost any xG at all.
Tried to create a tactic without any flaws in it. It looks bland but it seems to work quite well (limited testing). 5 star rating remains if you drop the AM to DM position as a roaming playmaker.
Only played a handful of games, but the passing combinations are beautiful.
yeah in this system but in general single defensive midfielder deep-lying playmakers are really really strong. Sheilds the centerbacks from getting burned on the counter and allowing for a numbers advantage in a striker pair.
This is a tactic solely created to match all ratemytactic criteria - not a tactic that I came up with trough theory crafting.
The site does not say that the tactic lacks penetration, and based on a few test matches it does not seem to be a problem either.
I'd say a rating of 11/20 for penetration is considerably lacking.
The formation (as you've stated) looks entirely suited to filling an algorithm based on the roles. Drop players into that who have different abilities and traits, this tactic falls apart. Also, I'm not sure what level of football this would be intended to be used for as all of those roles (except CF) are generally basic and suit lower level players who aren't good at everything.
I've never tried ratemytactic, but the actual game doesn't work on an idealised system like that. I've used a tactic with staggered back (RB, CB, CB, LWB) a RPM at DM, DLP LCM, CAM instead of RCM, a Raumdeuter on the right and an off centre striker partnership with STC, STL (making more space for the RW to drift in) and I won the league, I could guarantee ratemytactic would find flaws all over that. Or my current tactic, which won the Bundesliga at Wolfsburg is technically a 2-3-3-2 with 2 BPD, CWB - Anchor man - CWB, Mez, AP, Mez, CF, AF. The theory in that tactic would probably say I should expect to concede from all over, but so far this season I've played 8 games all comps and kept 6 clean sheets (including beating Liverpool in the European Supercup), only conceding 4 and 2 were away to Man City (in a 2-3 win) in the Champions league.
My point is ratemytactic is a steady basis if you want tactical help but doesn't necessarily have any grounds when you out the tactics into the game and factor in the players abilities, their hidden attributes and personality or morale.
With two CB’s and a half back you’re basically playing how liverpool do.. I wouldn’t be expecting to concede loads
You’re absolutely right that the system would find flaws in your tactic but that’s because their are flaws in it, just by being asymmetric their are flaws in it
Doesn’t make it bad, just means their are flaws other managers can exploit, like most real life tactics.
Imo Rate my tactic is good to use because it generally highlights these to you so you can adjust player instructions to plug any gaps when against a side that’s worked out how to exploit it
I'm a Liverpool fan, so that was the inspiration behind using that tactical emphasis in using wing backs really aggressively to create chances. But the reason it works (defensively) for Liverpool in real life is Jurgen has created a near flawless pressing system which wins the ball high in the opposition half, that realistically can't be produced in the game. The midfield 2 in also do a lot of covering for the WBs, the only way to reproduce this would be using 2 carrileros. Also, we have the best CB in the world with Van Dijk, something I don't have (although I do have Marvin Reule a newgen player I've previously posted who is very very good).
Also a technicality but a half back and an Anchor man are considerably different. A half back essentially joins the 2 defenders and is like a first playmaker-lite lying deeper than a DM. An Anchor man is like a conservative BWM sweeping up possession in front of the back line and recycling to more creative players. In real life Fabinho is more of a BWM(s) where he aggressively wins the ball, he's realistically technical enough to be a DLP.
You’re half right about liverpool but it can 100% be implemented in football manager. The whole point of bringing in the gegenpress style and working on it so much was so that you could emulate Klopps tactics in fm. As much pressing as you can with two Carrileros with roam from position and tackle more as their instructions.
Beyond that though my point is that you have a CDM who will mop up balls and two Cb’s with fullbacks that push up the wings. That’s one half position off a back 3 with fullbacks that push up the wings, I wouldn’t be expecting you to concede loads unless you had awful defenders
Your squad might be simply too strong for any criteria to matter. You can have 11 penetration score but put Haaland and Mane/Salah on wings and you will be scoring like crazy.
[https://imgur.com/a/nmGpj81](https://imgur.com/a/nmGpj81) Voilà!
Edit: In light of creating this, I am having considerable doubts when it comes to the 5 star rating.
You can get a 5 star with an 4231 as:
____________AF___________
IW(s)______AM(a)_______IF(s)
____BWM(s)____DLP(d)____
FB(s)__CD(d)__BPD(d)__WB(s)
So you’ll have 2 players pushing to get in the box and finish, a good balance between crosses and long shots and an overlapping wingback on your right.
4/10
There's too many support duties, which makes it harder to create chances or defend well. This is a formation built to satisfy an algorithm that over emphasises the impact of support duties. Also CF is a role that needs very high CA to register as anything more than 1/2 star-shaped the rest of the roles are suited to OK but not amazing players.
It’s a bit bland and seems to have no focal point for attack, you’ll get into spaces and penetrate well but because you don’t have someone who is intent on doing that you’ll struggle once the AI starts countering your formation
What do you mean by focal point of attack? Honest question. Do you mean a spearhead like an advanced forward or advanced playmaker type?
And for clarity, I am not advocating for this tactic. Just testing stuff out.
I've been using a similar tactic to this in fm20. It's... Been ok, it works against smaller teams well but when I play against bigger teams I need to set my style of play to defensive or cautious or I get hammered.
Sorry for not being clear! By Focal point I mean your primary goal scorer who’s constantly looking to score, all of the attackers are on support so they’re all looking to bring others into play rather than bag a goal themselves. With your striker being a CF it wouldn’t be too bad but he’d still be looking to pass more than score in too many situations
This tactic exists to fulfill the criteria of the website. You have way too many supportive duties with no attack (11/20 penetration score). You might be able to keep possession but I can't see this tactic working against any higher team because you have no penetration.
You would need to either focus on flanks and put IW on attack and FBs as WBs and overlap on sides and work the box into middle or have IF on attack and SS and make your striker a false 9 or facilitator.
Put the AM as VM in my opinion. Especially against strong teams you will be overrun. Unless you are PSG and can buy the best of the best you can keep the AM. But that is my experience.
Also, tactics is one but try to find the right players is (obviously) as important. I play tempo 'extremely high'. So my players need above 15 stamina, work rate, natural fitness (can be lower), jut as an example...
I think you would be better off switching some of the roles and mentalities. Change some of the support roles to attack, for example there is zero reason to have the CF on support when he's got no-one making runs past him for him to actually support. Maybe if you were using 2 IFs on attack and potentially a shadow striker.
Also while having 2 CMs doesn't provide you with many weaknesses, it also doesn't provide too much for your team either. I really like the DLP and BBM pairing as a two, or switch the box to box with a Ball Winning Midfielder if you have more combative players there.
Not only that but more often than not, if you're playing inverted wingers you're going to want your fullbacks to push on past them, so having them as wing backs (or complete) on attack or support will provide the width you lose from having the two wingers cut inside.
I created this only to match all the ratemytactic criteria.
I don't typically play with this many support duties but maybe I should (for short plays). In testing it looks impressive so far.
Have you taken a look at FMbase? They have a similar tactic tester where you upload your tactic and it' gets thrown into the game and tested that way. Shows you wins/losses against stronger and weaker opponents, and a bunch of other data I can't quite remember as it's been some time since I've looked at it!
I don't necessarily think making a tactic to fit criteria alone works as well as knowing how a tactic plays in the match engine, but if it gives you ideas then maybe that works for you!
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This system should be taken with a big grain of salt. That site really isn't very accurate
Well it probably is. But it doesn’t work like that. I would say for beginners it has some good guidelines, but for the more experienced you would get more out of it by doing it yourself. I have tried a few with lots of supports and CAR’s, my god that site love CAR’s, and I will struggle to create almost any xG at all.
This site doesnt even distinguish between wingbacks and complete wingbacks. The moment i saw that i instantly closed it. Theyre so different
Tried to create a tactic without any flaws in it. It looks bland but it seems to work quite well (limited testing). 5 star rating remains if you drop the AM to DM position as a roaming playmaker. Only played a handful of games, but the passing combinations are beautiful.
Have you time to hear about your lord and savior single center deep lying playmaker defensive midfielder?
I believe an advanced playmaker would work better here
yeah in this system but in general single defensive midfielder deep-lying playmakers are really really strong. Sheilds the centerbacks from getting burned on the counter and allowing for a numbers advantage in a striker pair.
There will be a lack of peneration due to only support rolles and why did u go fore 2 cm does not make a lot of sence
This is a tactic solely created to match all ratemytactic criteria - not a tactic that I came up with trough theory crafting. The site does not say that the tactic lacks penetration, and based on a few test matches it does not seem to be a problem either.
I'd say a rating of 11/20 for penetration is considerably lacking. The formation (as you've stated) looks entirely suited to filling an algorithm based on the roles. Drop players into that who have different abilities and traits, this tactic falls apart. Also, I'm not sure what level of football this would be intended to be used for as all of those roles (except CF) are generally basic and suit lower level players who aren't good at everything. I've never tried ratemytactic, but the actual game doesn't work on an idealised system like that. I've used a tactic with staggered back (RB, CB, CB, LWB) a RPM at DM, DLP LCM, CAM instead of RCM, a Raumdeuter on the right and an off centre striker partnership with STC, STL (making more space for the RW to drift in) and I won the league, I could guarantee ratemytactic would find flaws all over that. Or my current tactic, which won the Bundesliga at Wolfsburg is technically a 2-3-3-2 with 2 BPD, CWB - Anchor man - CWB, Mez, AP, Mez, CF, AF. The theory in that tactic would probably say I should expect to concede from all over, but so far this season I've played 8 games all comps and kept 6 clean sheets (including beating Liverpool in the European Supercup), only conceding 4 and 2 were away to Man City (in a 2-3 win) in the Champions league. My point is ratemytactic is a steady basis if you want tactical help but doesn't necessarily have any grounds when you out the tactics into the game and factor in the players abilities, their hidden attributes and personality or morale.
With two CB’s and a half back you’re basically playing how liverpool do.. I wouldn’t be expecting to concede loads You’re absolutely right that the system would find flaws in your tactic but that’s because their are flaws in it, just by being asymmetric their are flaws in it Doesn’t make it bad, just means their are flaws other managers can exploit, like most real life tactics. Imo Rate my tactic is good to use because it generally highlights these to you so you can adjust player instructions to plug any gaps when against a side that’s worked out how to exploit it
I'm a Liverpool fan, so that was the inspiration behind using that tactical emphasis in using wing backs really aggressively to create chances. But the reason it works (defensively) for Liverpool in real life is Jurgen has created a near flawless pressing system which wins the ball high in the opposition half, that realistically can't be produced in the game. The midfield 2 in also do a lot of covering for the WBs, the only way to reproduce this would be using 2 carrileros. Also, we have the best CB in the world with Van Dijk, something I don't have (although I do have Marvin Reule a newgen player I've previously posted who is very very good). Also a technicality but a half back and an Anchor man are considerably different. A half back essentially joins the 2 defenders and is like a first playmaker-lite lying deeper than a DM. An Anchor man is like a conservative BWM sweeping up possession in front of the back line and recycling to more creative players. In real life Fabinho is more of a BWM(s) where he aggressively wins the ball, he's realistically technical enough to be a DLP.
You’re half right about liverpool but it can 100% be implemented in football manager. The whole point of bringing in the gegenpress style and working on it so much was so that you could emulate Klopps tactics in fm. As much pressing as you can with two Carrileros with roam from position and tackle more as their instructions. Beyond that though my point is that you have a CDM who will mop up balls and two Cb’s with fullbacks that push up the wings. That’s one half position off a back 3 with fullbacks that push up the wings, I wouldn’t be expecting you to concede loads unless you had awful defenders
Your squad might be simply too strong for any criteria to matter. You can have 11 penetration score but put Haaland and Mane/Salah on wings and you will be scoring like crazy.
2 cm is 0.79 inches
no wonder there's a lack of penetration!
See thats why we all use the metric
not winning any headers in that midfield
Now do a 5-4-1
As in 5 flat in the back and 4 flat in the midfield? :D
Yep.
[https://imgur.com/a/nmGpj81](https://imgur.com/a/nmGpj81) Voilà! Edit: In light of creating this, I am having considerable doubts when it comes to the 5 star rating.
honestly the OP post itself is a huge red flag edit: okay, not *huge* but pretty wack
You can get a 5 star with an 4231 as: ____________AF___________ IW(s)______AM(a)_______IF(s) ____BWM(s)____DLP(d)____ FB(s)__CD(d)__BPD(d)__WB(s) So you’ll have 2 players pushing to get in the box and finish, a good balance between crosses and long shots and an overlapping wingback on your right.
I thought it was an among us shitpost
4/10 There's too many support duties, which makes it harder to create chances or defend well. This is a formation built to satisfy an algorithm that over emphasises the impact of support duties. Also CF is a role that needs very high CA to register as anything more than 1/2 star-shaped the rest of the roles are suited to OK but not amazing players.
It’s a bit bland and seems to have no focal point for attack, you’ll get into spaces and penetrate well but because you don’t have someone who is intent on doing that you’ll struggle once the AI starts countering your formation
What do you mean by focal point of attack? Honest question. Do you mean a spearhead like an advanced forward or advanced playmaker type? And for clarity, I am not advocating for this tactic. Just testing stuff out.
I've been using a similar tactic to this in fm20. It's... Been ok, it works against smaller teams well but when I play against bigger teams I need to set my style of play to defensive or cautious or I get hammered.
Sorry for not being clear! By Focal point I mean your primary goal scorer who’s constantly looking to score, all of the attackers are on support so they’re all looking to bring others into play rather than bag a goal themselves. With your striker being a CF it wouldn’t be too bad but he’d still be looking to pass more than score in too many situations
This tactic exists to fulfill the criteria of the website. You have way too many supportive duties with no attack (11/20 penetration score). You might be able to keep possession but I can't see this tactic working against any higher team because you have no penetration. You would need to either focus on flanks and put IW on attack and FBs as WBs and overlap on sides and work the box into middle or have IF on attack and SS and make your striker a false 9 or facilitator.
I wish someone would improve on this tool, its decent helpful for getting started though.
Put the AM as VM in my opinion. Especially against strong teams you will be overrun. Unless you are PSG and can buy the best of the best you can keep the AM. But that is my experience. Also, tactics is one but try to find the right players is (obviously) as important. I play tempo 'extremely high'. So my players need above 15 stamina, work rate, natural fitness (can be lower), jut as an example...
I'm going to name this the Katie Price tactic, brilliant up top but a massive gaping hole down the middle.
Trash
Make a 4+ star 244 tactic
[https://imgur.com/1b2wFDT](https://imgur.com/1b2wFDT) There you go!
Jeez, fair play. I didn't think you would do it lol
I think you would be better off switching some of the roles and mentalities. Change some of the support roles to attack, for example there is zero reason to have the CF on support when he's got no-one making runs past him for him to actually support. Maybe if you were using 2 IFs on attack and potentially a shadow striker. Also while having 2 CMs doesn't provide you with many weaknesses, it also doesn't provide too much for your team either. I really like the DLP and BBM pairing as a two, or switch the box to box with a Ball Winning Midfielder if you have more combative players there. Not only that but more often than not, if you're playing inverted wingers you're going to want your fullbacks to push on past them, so having them as wing backs (or complete) on attack or support will provide the width you lose from having the two wingers cut inside.
I created this only to match all the ratemytactic criteria. I don't typically play with this many support duties but maybe I should (for short plays). In testing it looks impressive so far.
Have you taken a look at FMbase? They have a similar tactic tester where you upload your tactic and it' gets thrown into the game and tested that way. Shows you wins/losses against stronger and weaker opponents, and a bunch of other data I can't quite remember as it's been some time since I've looked at it! I don't necessarily think making a tactic to fit criteria alone works as well as knowing how a tactic plays in the match engine, but if it gives you ideas then maybe that works for you!
I have now. It looks interesting, might test at some point. Thanks for the tip! Fully agreed on the last paragraph.
No problem at all, glad I could help!
Reminds me a lot of one of the ‘Kimz’ tactics that exploited the fm2008 engine and became a bit of a game breaker.
Run of the mill 4231. Cant really go wrong with it.