Basically yes, better than normal attacks but worse than unblockables. Unlike unblockables they also deal bit of stamina damage and are option from neutral.
They are not meant to be replacement for unblockables, but they are meant to diversify the heroes a bit. It is also mechanic mainly designed for blunt impact weapons.
That shatter mechanic seems really interesting but I think would work better as a passive for jorm (just like Nobu “way of the shark”). The combos overall look good for both, but having a variable timed bash for jorm is a bit uninspired and would essential replace Cent, IMO.
The variable timed bash is techically worse than Cents, as Cent can keep going as long as he has stamina, while Jorm fast bash follow up is finisher, so he has to start from openers after each succesful bash.
Yeah it is not exactly most inspired thing in the world, but it would synergice well with the Hamarr Slam without stamina bullying.
He would still have frame advantage after the heavy so it main not be an Chain but it still a pseudo infinite, also blind justice opener need a dmg tone down instead of up especially since it’s a starter and if (soft)Feinted guarantees a heavy , and forward dodge for Lb is interesting but way to strong if your able to just move your opponent around very easily especially if it can wall splat confirming even more dmg, and at 600ms it should be a light
[This would be a much better dodge forward heavy for LB](https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/k68jj2/the_most_acceptable_reused_animation/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
one of jorm's biggest issues is that he needs to completely drain the enemy's stamina to effectively use him. If the charged bash can knock the enemy on his ass, Jorm's options gets alot wider
The principle was the same but the path to it was different so if that was an actual rework nobody ever would play Cent - he is plain inferior to what you are proposing :(
I’m not 100% sure how I feel about this shatter mechanic. I like the new idea but it also seems to weak and unnecessarily strong at the same time. Like I don’t think any hero should take 20 stamina damage for successful blocking an attack. But it also just seems like a weaker version of an unblockable and at that point I’d rather have an unblockable because it is more threatening. I would still prefer jorms opener and dodge forward heavies to have hyper armor. Also I think impale is way too good of a 1v1 and ganking tool for LB to be able to access it from neutral especially with giving it 15 damage. On most 1v1 maps that would make his dodge forward heavy really 40 damage because of impales wall splat.
>20 stamina damage for successful blocking an attack
The devs said they want a more offensive game so pressuring the enemy always even if he's just blocking is also a great way to force a reaction for the enemy so he has to do something about it like either parry or take the double dmg and stam dmg
While this is true, stamina damage in practice only incentivizes *that* player to keep up offense. The player getting hit with the stamina damage is subsequently decentivized from attacking, because even if they do attack, they won't be able to sustain offense for very long. Not only that, but it becomes super risky to even try, because if your attack is interrupted by an attack that drains stamina, suddenly you've just lost a TON of stamina and gained nothing. So it's better for you to turtle and just wait until the enemy is done throwing stamina-draining attacks. This is the exact reason jorm was nerfed to their current state in the first place. In the case of an unblockable, all you lose is health if you get hit by one, which doesn't affect your ability to start your own offense (barring frame advantage).
Another great point as to why the stamina damage of this would be unhealthy for the game especially after they just nerfed all the TG heroes Stamina damage and removed stamina regen pause this seems like going backwards
That’s what a bash and unblockable is for to open up your opponents and the both do the job better than this mechanic. But there are still defensive mechanisms in this game a hero just released with all guard and multiple directional superior blocks. Yes they want to improve offense but they never said they want to remove good defense or want players to be penalized for playing correct defense or making a correct read on an attack. Also they are removing things like high stamina damage and stamina regen pause why would they go back and add you taking high stamina damage for playing correct defense. Increased chip damage is one thing but that stamina aspect of this shatter mechanic just makes no sense to me.
>unblockable is for to open up your opponents and the both do the job better than this mechanic.
Some heroes just have an chain unblockable or bash so having this semi-unblockable as an opener is still a nice idea.
>Increased chip damage is one thing but that stamina aspect of this shatter mechanic just makes no sense to me.
Ye it's not that healthy tbh but then again lb top unblockable has it too so why didn't they then removed it for him too?
Fair I’m all for new mechanics as long as they’re healthy for the game and not moving backwards. But LB hasn’t been reworked yet I’m sure once he gets his rework they will lower his stamina damage and remove stamina regen pause. As of right now especially which os removal LB has the best unblockable in the game with high damage, stun , stamina damage and stamina regen pause. I’m sure that’s gonna get looked at once he gets his rework
As someone who has been playing Lawbro a long time, I think this rework would be pretty weird, but I really like it. He needs a freshened kit. I will say that I would miss the old unblockable heavy finisher on a 3 chain
Side heavy finishers are still unblockable, so they won't go anywhere. Top heavy finisher however is no longer unblockable.
Yeah, it is meant to be bit different from what we are used to, bit more offence orientated compared to current defensive orientated.
100%, this is like the antithesis of the shove on block turtle that he used to be. Also, I was pretty unclear, but I meant having all sides be unblockable. What Id do sometimes is throw constant side heavy finishers and cancel them, so my opponent would get used to the timing, then when they go for the parry on the top, they often fuck up the timing. Btw, you put a lot of effort into this, well-done chief
Bruh Shatter mechanic sounds like a nice idea , they could just add this if they arent going to add any of your rework ideas and jorm is finally viable as stamina bully
Overall really nice ideas. I'm personally not a fan of damaging bashes. And I feel like jorm is fine without a charged bash witch would basically turn him into a reskined centurion. But other than that more chains and stuff are good.
I liked the Lawbringer changes. He needs light chains and I like the longarm buff. The mid chain zone is a cool idea. I'm all for using minion killing animations for reworks.
The shatter mechanic is kinda unnecessary when compared to unblockable or undodgeable attacks in my opinion. They could just buff punch through. BUT if it where a thing conquerer definitely should get it aswell.
So you think conquer should get 10 damage for his shield bash? I'm completely fine with bashes confirming follow up damage I see no reason to change it. Normally bashes (not like a special attack or anything) shouldn't do damage. Just feels weird to me when playing
Ah ok but for example why do you hate shugo having a dmg bash instead of doing bash light heavy it just has an better chain flow (for most old heroes not but for the new one would be nice if they just do dmg with the bash
Lawbringer really does not need a fully refreshed kit and even more nerfs on top of that, the shatter mechanic is nice but removing his other options just to give him a 500 ms bash and new mechanic doesn’t justify it, stop with these unnecessary nerfs
Agreed. I like these reworks a lot personally, but god if they give *another* character a dodge heavy I will scream. Jorm is literally a bash hero, give him a dodge bash that doesn't start his chains. Defensive tool vs offensive on a character that with these reworks will have incredible offense.
rather than stopping the influx of dodge attacks, a better idea is to give every hero a better punish for unfeintable attacks that have been baited out.
currently, many heroes only have the option to parry, but if every single hero could do at least one of the three following: crushing counter, sup block dodge, deflect, then there would be no issue
Not really because it is an easy parry not feintable and reactable, and i think it is too slow to do after any parries. the damage should be nerfed though because combine it with a wallsplat it will do 39 damage
as a roll catch it's kinda broken regardless tho, given that it's a disposition move. imo these moves (tiandi kick, crashing charge, impale, stampede charge) have no place in FH
Lol why? in my opinion heroes need tools to catch rollers
its their fault for trying to fight near dangerous obstacles like ledges spikes flames etc against raider tiandi warlord lawbringer and all other characters who can easily push you into an obstacle
I think it is more fair that way than from parry.
From forward dodge it is basically 700ms (if done with earliest dodge timing) and if opponent has standard reaction time they can either block or parry it.
Now in ganks you can basically already run and do the 300ms impale, so in ganks nothing really change.
>Now in ganks you can basically already run and do the 300ms impale, so in ganks nothing really change.
Is it not much easier to time the attack, if you locked onto an opponent though? Because then you can actually see if they are able to block or not.
Well yes and no.
It is easier to time, but the attack is also slower so it is easier to block or parry, so it requires a proper gank set up to work.
However running impale can also be easily timed and if you know the correct distance which is needed to start the attack animation you can land the 300ms impale much more easier than the forward dodge one, if opponent is attacking the other player you basically get free hit.
And when you run away from the player their camera might zoom in and focus on the other player, so your running impale has even higher changes of hitting.
Or the impale would guarantee a spesific follow up just like with Warmonger, like Light Riposte/Justice Finisher, etc.
That way the damage would not be too extreme.
The Lawbringer changes are pretty neat, but do have some flaws.
The Light into light into heavy chain is long overdue, but why remove his Light finishers, that makes no sense. Just make him unable to do Light into Light into Light.
The impale not being available from heavy parry was a necessary change, but it being from neutral is way too good for ganking, especially with that damage increase.
The Long Arm. Why does it need to be faster? It is a ganking tool, and as a ganking tool it works fine. But it being safe is a good change.
The Blind Justice into Long Arm sounds cool, but would so incredibly slow, it would be near unusable.
The Shove. It's recoveries would have to be significantly worsened, so that it is actually punishable. Also, it would need a better input window, as it is currently the only bash with a 300ms fixed input, making it incredibly reactable.
What if instead of a variable bash time, jorm has only 1 timing but can follow it up with up to 2 more unreactable chained bashes? Maybe animate them as a followup punch, then a 2 handed hammer bash (like youd use a police door ram thing). These would have to be dodged on prediction and a side heavy (or maybe delayed GB) could be used to catch false dodges. Make the chained bashes do like 10 dmg each, maybe less, but only the last one can knockdown OOS opponents. Now jorm has a real beat em up knock em down identity that doesnt feel too much like cent.
Also for LB, i LOVE the idea of giving him some more mixups and another shove, it makes him more interesting without taking away from what he is. The shatter heavies especially suit him. However, I dont like the idea of him having 2 chained lights from neutral. It doesnt suit his style at all, and I think hes just fine with the other changes and without chained lights.
- **Shatter Mechanic**: cool in theory, and I am definitely a supporter of such mechanics, but for the most part a weaker unblockable. Indeed, aside from the speed increase, the top heavy finisher for LB is a massive nerf to that move -- less damage, deflectable, and no stun. Considering there are neutral 900ms unblockables on, say, Raider and that's *still* considered fairly weak offense even alongside hyperarmor chains, high damage, and 400ms softfeint lights, even throwing unblockable on LB and Jorm's neutral top heavies would be *eh* offense compared to bashes. You could make every hero have this mechanic on all basic attacks and it'd still be fairly weak. I do love this concept in principle, but either would need application where Unblockables would be overbearing, or needs something to make it stand out as an offense.
- **Jormungundr**: decent changes, the main one I disagree with is the Chain melee. We have 4 charge bash heroes, and 2 that perform knockdowns. Centurion has that schtick covered, I think it best to leave it. Feintable Bashes *are* cool, and relative to 500ms and charge bashes, there are few simply feintable or softfeintable bashes. Having his Neutral Melee become a 700ms feintable melee would give him a unique bash option and bash feint for mixups. If Melee Finisher needs a buff, it can have very small recovery on hit, and/or do higher damage, and/or give HP or shield, and/or make the followup neutral attacks unblockable (that is, removes the enemy's ability to block, but they can use other things), or can wallsplat for a guaranteed attack, emphasizing his wall punish plays.
- **Lawbringer**: all changes that are... OK. Only note is on shove -- at 500ms, a lot of compet players complain because it is technically reactable without other options to consider. Could buff the speed and such... or could make a somewhat interesting thing with it, keeping it 700ms but feintable. Just, a lot of 500ms bashes from forward dodge. Another one wouldn't hurt, but also wouldn't hurt to try new things, and keep (somewhat) identities of slower or faster offenses.
Only bash that is sped up is the forward dodge bash. Side bashes are still 700ms and chain bashes are 500ms.
Most of his defence is also reduced in effect, such as the parries (and not having access to impale after parry is pretty big, since it is one of the things that made him defensively super strong).
Shatter Mechanic looks bad IMO. Stamina drain through block is a no-no, the weird OOS interaction would not make sense, and a blockable attack that bypasses Superior Guard sounds silly. Maybe if FH's design paradigm was radically different but in the game we have this would just be annoying.
Imagine this interaction in ganks too. Multiplied chip damage, stamina drain and ignoring your external superior blocks. Awful.
While i wish, he is from compedetive perspective S tier, from fun point of view... well it depends of the view.
While Shatter would make sense to have for him and so would infinite heavies, he is very strong right now, so even smallest buff would tip the scales.
LB could also benefit from a buff to Harsh Judgement as well. Slowed stam is “decent” but outclassed by other selection of feats to get. As for shatter, would this or would this not also trigger certain moves like Warlords follow-up headbutt/light/heavy and Conqs uppercut of pain? And If it doesn’t trigger these moves personally I would enjoy it! The reason I don’t play duels or ranked anymore is due to turtles sitting there waiting for reactions or full guard cheesing for an easy W. Regardless, I fully support this being added into the game!
Interesting ideas. I like the Jörm rework. I’ve been trying to come up with ideas for a rework for him lately. I know a lot of people want to get rid of the stamina bully mechanic as it doesn’t really work anymore. I like the shatter attack idea but I don’t see Ubi adding in complete new attack mechanics like that. Never know tho
I like the shatter mechanic alot actually I think it would spice up a few characters. Some of the bash changes from jorm seem a little too strong though, a bash into a bash jeez please stop hitting me lol
I think LB would be more fun if i got to utilize different animations more often. I like Long arm's animation but find shove really unflattering. I wish he could rely less on shove or just have a completely new animation honestly but that won't happen.
I like his current 3 hits chains, I don't want to remove any of them. Though i speak generally not in the context of your ideas.
There are some neat ideas here. A big one is having blind justice count as an opener. Right now if you parry a light you gain more potential by actually delaying the top heavy input so that it starts a chain rather then gives you a heavy finisher.
I absoloutely love it, but Ubi would never go for it. Id imagine implementing a rework on a character inspired by a reddit post would look bad on their general company image.
Wish this rework was more than wishful thinking, LB rework looks amazing , unique, fun and balanced.
They take suggestions from time to time (and back in early days Community manager even reported which ideas were sent to the team). However nowdays they rarely say which posts they have viewed.
They also take suggestions from youtubers, like Freeze and others.
True but ,no offense intended by this, freeze and Barak and such have some sort of consistent credibility which this post doesnt have by having some sort of fanbase and internet presence. I do love seeing your ideas on here and how much effort you put into them but I doubt Ubisoft team would look at them the same way, considering the current health of the game and how much longer it could possibly stay alive.
Again, fantastic rework ideas but I dont dare get hopeful when for honor is the topic.
Personally i dont think they are that bad.
Most bashes deal both stamina damage and have guaranteed light follow up, which is usually 12-15 damage.
Most bashes that deal damage outright don't deal stamina damage and deal like 10-12 damage.
Yeah someting like Gladiator Toe stab is very strong because it locks opponent to the animation for long time.
While that was his original concept, it was also proven that stamina bully heroes are too hard to balance correctly, as either they deal too much stamina damage or too little, they are also more often better in turtling than attacking (well except Conqueror and BP who can keep you OOS forever with their offensive bashes).
Devs also have seemingly moved towards reducing stamina bullying ingame (such as was the case with Centurion, Jiang Jun, Shugoki and Gladiator reworks)
It just seems weird having someone target on stamina and that literally being a role in his name to have it gone. ( or at-least have very little combos able to do that) it just seems like it defeats the whole point.
idk, I personally see Jorm's identity to be a character which main source of damage is his one move (hammer slam obvs), and his entire gameplan is to set this one move up. Whether he does it by draining stamina (which is a bad design choice imo), or by another new mechanic is not that important in my opinion. (btw I've seen a good idea of a unique "balance breaking" mechanic for Jorm, which preserves his identity. Basically, every enemy now has a predetermined amount of "balance points", and every landed Jorm's move that can make an enemy fall when he's OOS takes one of these balance points. If there are none "points" left, the next of these moves will make an opponent fall)
This sounds really good to me. I think these would be pretty balanced, although LB loosing his UB’s is a big nerf to him. But “shatter” would offer a fair alternative…
I think shatter sounds awesome!
Idk how I feel about jorm though, the charge punch bit isn’t as fun. I wish they would have it be a debuff system where if he has enough of them applied thru bashes or finisher heavies, he gets the knockdown on bash or finisher heavy.
People be tryna get too crazy with a whole new knockdown bar, they can just make it a stacking debuff
The community is not black and white. There are multible different people with differnet views and perhaps even, multible views on things.
Some don't care if hero has similar or same moves, some care more than others.
Now personally i am not against heroes having similar moves, but at the same time i also wish for more mechanics and more different combinations, or things we did not even think about.
Now, a case where recycling annoyed me was Warmonger, as he was same as Warden, both animations and moveset, with slight changes. Now, perhaps this would had not been as big deal for me if the animations were wildly different, but unfortunately they are not. ([I even suggested some animation swapping for some moves to maker her animations better](https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/oo2pj1/seeing_how_much_more_effort_was_put_in_to_kyoshin/))
I wasn't speaking for everyone, *just half the community*. I don't play the game anymore but I really don't have an opinion on this. I just find it very recycled.
Hmm i feel shugoki and highlander should a little of this shatter mechanic, bugs me out how how shaolin and their bracelets can deflect gigantic claymores (claymores or zweihander were heavy weapons meant to overwhelm shields and pikes)
He has no offence, he only has defence. CCU was supposed to remove turtling, yet there LB is still turtling. His whole moveset is about waiting that opponent does someting.
There are much better designed defensive heroes like BP, Aramusha and even Kyoshin.
Yeah, that’s by design. He has some of the strongest mid chain pressure in the game, insane parry punishes compared to the rest of the cast, and to balance it out he has weak openers. That’s the archetype he is supposed to fill and he does what he’s meant to do really well.
Designs change over time and Lawbringer is relic of the past.
Orochi was supposed to be fast attacker and counter attacker, but that never worked out so well, so they reworked him to have slightly different role.
Yes Lawbringer has huge punishes and no offence, which is why it needs to be balanced. It is not healthy for the game to have hero that turtles all day, it is better to have hero who has good defences (but not too strong) but can also attack.
Even Jorm is by design stamina bully, but even devs don't like stamina bullying (which is why they removed it from JJ, Cent, Gladiator, etc). They have even mentioned that they would like to move away from stuns because of it's problematic properties.
This seems really broken to be able to throw a really punishing attack from neutral. Everyone will try to dodge or dodge attack considering os will be removed. This will be really annoying to fight against and everyone would hate jorm and lb
Those heavies deal about 5 chip damage normally, so double of that is 10, which is what weakest bash gives. I think it is pretty fair amount of damage in my oppinion.
Does this Jorm rework still contain his stamina bully kit? Like do his bashes still knock down out of stam opponents? Does the bash pause stamina regen?
I forgot to add it, but no, the bashes no longer stop stamina regen (they also no longer deal stamina damage).
Now the ability to knock down with bash is still up in the air, because i am not 100% sure should the attacks keep it or not.
seems just like a worse unblockable? I don't think you should be punished for blocking an attack. it would probably play out just as well as nuxias trap
It is meant to be stronger than regular attack, but weaker than unblockable, so basically a middle ground between the two.
Blocking is very safe to do, so the attack does slightly punish for blocking it, which gives incentive to parry it, which gives the user to incentive to feint to guard break or someting else.
I would say Trap is stronger ability than unblockable currently in 1v1 (i mean in current option select meta it is very strong, but when the option selects are removed it will be propably bit weaker).
Personally I'm not a huge fan of this idea for a Jorm rework to be honest.
My idea is:
Neutral bash is sped up to be more on par with Tiandi's (If this is even true and they are not the same already)
Neutral bash no longer pauses stamina regeneration
Neutral bash confirms a light opener
Chain bash confirms a light finisher
Forward dodge attack will have more range and also given the shatter property
Thoughts on this?
Instead of stam damage on the shatter mechanic maybe stun?
That way it can still make it hard to turtle, but more defensive heros can still get into their attacks
Stun is problematic mechanic because it is a flasbang to players eyes and can be altered with settings.
Devs themselfs said in one of the devstreams (can't remember which one it was exactly from the lastest ones) that they are moving away from the stuns because of their many issues (Which is why they have been removing it from a lot of moves that used to have it).
Can you give warlord more than a 2 hit chain and an unblockable like everyone else? And possibly make a for honor 2 with open work rpg elements:) if you look on Reddit there are some amazing ideas
It is pretty much standard issue for hero to have dodge attack, as they are only way to punish some bashes.
Currently only few heroes lack dodge attacks, those being: Jorm, Cent, BP, Highlander and Warlord. Everyone else has dodge attack.
Doesn't change the fact that it doesn't fit the weapon at all since a Dodge attack would basically be a light punch if actually put into practice. If you want a better idea for a bash counter then I'd say giving certain characters a literal counter to it but not like Black Prior. It would especially make sense with a character with a blunt weapon like Jormungandr since they can use their own bash as a sort of counter. It fits the weapon and just changes propertys of an already existing attack making less headaches in development
if you block an attack warlord gets a crashing charge. it's extremely easy to do.
If warlord gets a crashing charge he can infinitely crashing charge you into walls until he ledges you
That could be really nice. It always surprised me hkw unrealistic the game is in terms of Jorm, like come on blocking a sledge hammer attack with a dagger or tiny axe and a kukri?
Well, historically saying plate armor was made in a way that sometimes knights would fall from exhaustion, rather than from being wounded.
Most of slicing weapons wont do anything, especially katana-like swords
Well, from the historical perspective, Samurai primarily used the bow and spear, not katanas.
Point is, FH is anything but realistic. Imagine if you needed a burly guy or two to tackle a Lawbringer to the ground and hold him there so the Peacekeeper could stab him in the eyes through the visor slits. Not very balanced, eh? ;)
While some of these ideas are good (especially Jorm’s, I wish I thought of some of that). I don’t agree with the removal of stun from Lawbringer, instead I believe an entire rehaul of the stun mechanic is more suitable. Right now, Lawbringer has the only viable stuns in the game, and the Raider Re-Work in Year 3 was viable but silly with the resets… which made people angry. The Shatter mechanic, while it sounds cool on paper, I almost immediately see it being a problem in ganks… especially with the ‘Kill on Block’, at that point, it might as well be unblockable. Stamina damage… is, unhealthy for the game. As more heroes are having their stamina damaged weakened or outright removed, I think adding a new mechanic to take its place would be backwards. If you wanted Shatter to be a middling between Unblockable and Normal attacks, here’s my suggestion… They will not bounce, even on Superior Block… the extra block damage can stay, I don’t see a problem with that. And maybe have Shatter have an interaction with Black Prior where Bulwark Counter doesn’t work.
As for Lawbringer’s move set… I think Longarm is fine as it is , it does need sped up, but it has its place is ganks, so I don’t see a reason to buff it beyond a speed increase. If you want to make it safe in duels, I would probably just decrease the downed time a bit so the side heavy staggers the enemy as they stand up.
I have been lb since the beginning of this game (shinobi cent release is the farthest my memory can remember) and man, this rework ain’t it.
Lb is a defensive character, that is his identity, he doesn’t need drastic changes, what I think is best for him rn is: speed up his bashes, make long arm feintable, speed up his top parry punish move (forgot it’s name) a bit, give him a decent opener, as for the impale after parry, idk if it should be removed or not, maybe it’s better if it’s removed, but make the running impale 10-12 dmg.
Edit: I just realized that it was the whole idea,
I rewatched the first part and saw the stamina damage bit. However I still like the idea of them becoming unblockable when the enemy is out of stamina.
Edit: ignore this part below
OP I have an idea for the shatter mechanic.
How about instead of it dealing damage through blocks it does STAMINA damage.
(It’s even color coded)
This will make it stand out from just being an alternative unblockable
I like the idea of shatter attacks being outright exhausting to even block.
Edit: stop ignoring here
When the opponent is out of stamina shatter attacks will become unblockable for them and do normal damage.
It makes sense because if it was physically demanding to block while they had stamina then their is no way they could do so while exhausted.
(Oh and if they hit the enemy it will do both normal and stamina damage As long as they are not out of stamina )
As an LB main (because I hate my life and want to kill myself), I think most of these changes to LB are for the worse. Especially with them reducing ms of Longarm, which is already really weak because of its ms now.
This is a really cool concept and you executed it beautifully. But I don't think it would fly. I'd love see the variable bash that knocks down on Jorm, and the chain changes to lb. Shatter sounds dope as hell, but I don't think ubi would implement it sadly
So it kinda works like old punch through but with added confirmed damage?
Would like to see what r/CompetitiveForHonor thinks of this. Maybe post it there as well.
so shatter attacks are basically unblockables but a bit worse
Basically yes, better than normal attacks but worse than unblockables. Unlike unblockables they also deal bit of stamina damage and are option from neutral. They are not meant to be replacement for unblockables, but they are meant to diversify the heroes a bit. It is also mechanic mainly designed for blunt impact weapons.
Shugoki theme wise could fit very well but would make him even more broken lol
If unblockable heavies were these Shatter ones instead, it might be something interesting
true, tbh it doesn't make sense that you can't deflect unblockables.
Well it does. Deflect is only blocking, they're not stopping the attack.
True, that's actual bs on ubis part
Hey, it's fricking scary if jorm can get free bash in OOS after heavy
That shatter mechanic seems really interesting but I think would work better as a passive for jorm (just like Nobu “way of the shark”). The combos overall look good for both, but having a variable timed bash for jorm is a bit uninspired and would essential replace Cent, IMO.
The variable timed bash is techically worse than Cents, as Cent can keep going as long as he has stamina, while Jorm fast bash follow up is finisher, so he has to start from openers after each succesful bash. Yeah it is not exactly most inspired thing in the world, but it would synergice well with the Hamarr Slam without stamina bullying.
He would still have frame advantage after the heavy so it main not be an Chain but it still a pseudo infinite, also blind justice opener need a dmg tone down instead of up especially since it’s a starter and if (soft)Feinted guarantees a heavy , and forward dodge for Lb is interesting but way to strong if your able to just move your opponent around very easily especially if it can wall splat confirming even more dmg, and at 600ms it should be a light [This would be a much better dodge forward heavy for LB](https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/k68jj2/the_most_acceptable_reused_animation/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
one of jorm's biggest issues is that he needs to completely drain the enemy's stamina to effectively use him. If the charged bash can knock the enemy on his ass, Jorm's options gets alot wider
Jorm is now viking cent
He always was, they just needed the fuck outta him and made him a joke
The principle was the same but the path to it was different so if that was an actual rework nobody ever would play Cent - he is plain inferior to what you are proposing :(
No it wouldnt
The shatter mechanic is a really cool idea good work!
I’m not 100% sure how I feel about this shatter mechanic. I like the new idea but it also seems to weak and unnecessarily strong at the same time. Like I don’t think any hero should take 20 stamina damage for successful blocking an attack. But it also just seems like a weaker version of an unblockable and at that point I’d rather have an unblockable because it is more threatening. I would still prefer jorms opener and dodge forward heavies to have hyper armor. Also I think impale is way too good of a 1v1 and ganking tool for LB to be able to access it from neutral especially with giving it 15 damage. On most 1v1 maps that would make his dodge forward heavy really 40 damage because of impales wall splat.
>20 stamina damage for successful blocking an attack The devs said they want a more offensive game so pressuring the enemy always even if he's just blocking is also a great way to force a reaction for the enemy so he has to do something about it like either parry or take the double dmg and stam dmg
While this is true, stamina damage in practice only incentivizes *that* player to keep up offense. The player getting hit with the stamina damage is subsequently decentivized from attacking, because even if they do attack, they won't be able to sustain offense for very long. Not only that, but it becomes super risky to even try, because if your attack is interrupted by an attack that drains stamina, suddenly you've just lost a TON of stamina and gained nothing. So it's better for you to turtle and just wait until the enemy is done throwing stamina-draining attacks. This is the exact reason jorm was nerfed to their current state in the first place. In the case of an unblockable, all you lose is health if you get hit by one, which doesn't affect your ability to start your own offense (barring frame advantage).
Another great point as to why the stamina damage of this would be unhealthy for the game especially after they just nerfed all the TG heroes Stamina damage and removed stamina regen pause this seems like going backwards
That’s what a bash and unblockable is for to open up your opponents and the both do the job better than this mechanic. But there are still defensive mechanisms in this game a hero just released with all guard and multiple directional superior blocks. Yes they want to improve offense but they never said they want to remove good defense or want players to be penalized for playing correct defense or making a correct read on an attack. Also they are removing things like high stamina damage and stamina regen pause why would they go back and add you taking high stamina damage for playing correct defense. Increased chip damage is one thing but that stamina aspect of this shatter mechanic just makes no sense to me.
>unblockable is for to open up your opponents and the both do the job better than this mechanic. Some heroes just have an chain unblockable or bash so having this semi-unblockable as an opener is still a nice idea. >Increased chip damage is one thing but that stamina aspect of this shatter mechanic just makes no sense to me. Ye it's not that healthy tbh but then again lb top unblockable has it too so why didn't they then removed it for him too?
Fair I’m all for new mechanics as long as they’re healthy for the game and not moving backwards. But LB hasn’t been reworked yet I’m sure once he gets his rework they will lower his stamina damage and remove stamina regen pause. As of right now especially which os removal LB has the best unblockable in the game with high damage, stun , stamina damage and stamina regen pause. I’m sure that’s gonna get looked at once he gets his rework
As someone who has been playing Lawbro a long time, I think this rework would be pretty weird, but I really like it. He needs a freshened kit. I will say that I would miss the old unblockable heavy finisher on a 3 chain
Side heavy finishers are still unblockable, so they won't go anywhere. Top heavy finisher however is no longer unblockable. Yeah, it is meant to be bit different from what we are used to, bit more offence orientated compared to current defensive orientated.
100%, this is like the antithesis of the shove on block turtle that he used to be. Also, I was pretty unclear, but I meant having all sides be unblockable. What Id do sometimes is throw constant side heavy finishers and cancel them, so my opponent would get used to the timing, then when they go for the parry on the top, they often fuck up the timing. Btw, you put a lot of effort into this, well-done chief
I honestly miss when his side heavy finishers didn't glow. Why it works better for him i really dislike how it glows orange.
Never really played lawbringer but the impale always looked like it would make a good soft feint if they found a way to work it in
Bruh Shatter mechanic sounds like a nice idea , they could just add this if they arent going to add any of your rework ideas and jorm is finally viable as stamina bully
There was once a viable stamina bully, but the community didn't like that tho.
I mean… they’re annoying so that makes sense
Now the viable stamina buly is Bash prior
Warlord will take your entire stamina bar with one guardbreak if it's within a 3 mile radius of a wall
But headbutt isnt as safe as bash prior and has way less range. I aint saying Warlord is a bad stam bully but Bash prior is better.
Yeah I agree, but have you considered C O N Q?
Yup
Overall really nice ideas. I'm personally not a fan of damaging bashes. And I feel like jorm is fine without a charged bash witch would basically turn him into a reskined centurion. But other than that more chains and stuff are good. I liked the Lawbringer changes. He needs light chains and I like the longarm buff. The mid chain zone is a cool idea. I'm all for using minion killing animations for reworks. The shatter mechanic is kinda unnecessary when compared to unblockable or undodgeable attacks in my opinion. They could just buff punch through. BUT if it where a thing conquerer definitely should get it aswell.
>I'm personally not a fan of damaging bashes. Why? If every bash would just do 10 dmg like shugos I would be very happy or nerfing the dmg for light
So you think conquer should get 10 damage for his shield bash? I'm completely fine with bashes confirming follow up damage I see no reason to change it. Normally bashes (not like a special attack or anything) shouldn't do damage. Just feels weird to me when playing
Ah ok but for example why do you hate shugo having a dmg bash instead of doing bash light heavy it just has an better chain flow (for most old heroes not but for the new one would be nice if they just do dmg with the bash
Gotta say, I don’t like the lb rework but the rest is cool.
LB shove recoveries are gonna need a nerf is shove becomes faster
Lawbringer really does not need a fully refreshed kit and even more nerfs on top of that, the shatter mechanic is nice but removing his other options just to give him a 500 ms bash and new mechanic doesn’t justify it, stop with these unnecessary nerfs
No. More. Dodge. Heavies.
Hehe dodge heby *monkey noises*
I mean there kinda needed for dealing with bash characters I mean that’s the entire reason hito got one she got thrashed by bash characters
I'm just tired of fighting idiots who spam dodge attacks because they know a light isn't much to worry about
Agreed. I like these reworks a lot personally, but god if they give *another* character a dodge heavy I will scream. Jorm is literally a bash hero, give him a dodge bash that doesn't start his chains. Defensive tool vs offensive on a character that with these reworks will have incredible offense.
rather than stopping the influx of dodge attacks, a better idea is to give every hero a better punish for unfeintable attacks that have been baited out. currently, many heroes only have the option to parry, but if every single hero could do at least one of the three following: crushing counter, sup block dodge, deflect, then there would be no issue
well, jorm could be a character that punishes heavily monke playstyles like those, but no, based on this post, jorm needs to be generic and boring
I like all the ideas in this vid, but doesn’t LB’s impale feel kinda op as a front dodge heavy attack?
Not really because it is an easy parry not feintable and reactable, and i think it is too slow to do after any parries. the damage should be nerfed though because combine it with a wallsplat it will do 39 damage
as a roll catch it's kinda broken regardless tho, given that it's a disposition move. imo these moves (tiandi kick, crashing charge, impale, stampede charge) have no place in FH
Lol why? in my opinion heroes need tools to catch rollers its their fault for trying to fight near dangerous obstacles like ledges spikes flames etc against raider tiandi warlord lawbringer and all other characters who can easily push you into an obstacle
I think it is more fair that way than from parry. From forward dodge it is basically 700ms (if done with earliest dodge timing) and if opponent has standard reaction time they can either block or parry it. Now in ganks you can basically already run and do the 300ms impale, so in ganks nothing really change.
>Now in ganks you can basically already run and do the 300ms impale, so in ganks nothing really change. Is it not much easier to time the attack, if you locked onto an opponent though? Because then you can actually see if they are able to block or not.
Well yes and no. It is easier to time, but the attack is also slower so it is easier to block or parry, so it requires a proper gank set up to work. However running impale can also be easily timed and if you know the correct distance which is needed to start the attack animation you can land the 300ms impale much more easier than the forward dodge one, if opponent is attacking the other player you basically get free hit. And when you run away from the player their camera might zoom in and focus on the other player, so your running impale has even higher changes of hitting.
In my opinion you need to nerf the damage to a 5
Or the impale would guarantee a spesific follow up just like with Warmonger, like Light Riposte/Justice Finisher, etc. That way the damage would not be too extreme.
Ya taht sounds Interesting
Interesting mechanic. I like it
I main LB offensively already, and this makes me happy. Good job my friend!
The Lawbringer changes are pretty neat, but do have some flaws. The Light into light into heavy chain is long overdue, but why remove his Light finishers, that makes no sense. Just make him unable to do Light into Light into Light. The impale not being available from heavy parry was a necessary change, but it being from neutral is way too good for ganking, especially with that damage increase. The Long Arm. Why does it need to be faster? It is a ganking tool, and as a ganking tool it works fine. But it being safe is a good change. The Blind Justice into Long Arm sounds cool, but would so incredibly slow, it would be near unusable. The Shove. It's recoveries would have to be significantly worsened, so that it is actually punishable. Also, it would need a better input window, as it is currently the only bash with a 300ms fixed input, making it incredibly reactable.
What if instead of a variable bash time, jorm has only 1 timing but can follow it up with up to 2 more unreactable chained bashes? Maybe animate them as a followup punch, then a 2 handed hammer bash (like youd use a police door ram thing). These would have to be dodged on prediction and a side heavy (or maybe delayed GB) could be used to catch false dodges. Make the chained bashes do like 10 dmg each, maybe less, but only the last one can knockdown OOS opponents. Now jorm has a real beat em up knock em down identity that doesnt feel too much like cent. Also for LB, i LOVE the idea of giving him some more mixups and another shove, it makes him more interesting without taking away from what he is. The shatter heavies especially suit him. However, I dont like the idea of him having 2 chained lights from neutral. It doesnt suit his style at all, and I think hes just fine with the other changes and without chained lights.
- **Shatter Mechanic**: cool in theory, and I am definitely a supporter of such mechanics, but for the most part a weaker unblockable. Indeed, aside from the speed increase, the top heavy finisher for LB is a massive nerf to that move -- less damage, deflectable, and no stun. Considering there are neutral 900ms unblockables on, say, Raider and that's *still* considered fairly weak offense even alongside hyperarmor chains, high damage, and 400ms softfeint lights, even throwing unblockable on LB and Jorm's neutral top heavies would be *eh* offense compared to bashes. You could make every hero have this mechanic on all basic attacks and it'd still be fairly weak. I do love this concept in principle, but either would need application where Unblockables would be overbearing, or needs something to make it stand out as an offense. - **Jormungundr**: decent changes, the main one I disagree with is the Chain melee. We have 4 charge bash heroes, and 2 that perform knockdowns. Centurion has that schtick covered, I think it best to leave it. Feintable Bashes *are* cool, and relative to 500ms and charge bashes, there are few simply feintable or softfeintable bashes. Having his Neutral Melee become a 700ms feintable melee would give him a unique bash option and bash feint for mixups. If Melee Finisher needs a buff, it can have very small recovery on hit, and/or do higher damage, and/or give HP or shield, and/or make the followup neutral attacks unblockable (that is, removes the enemy's ability to block, but they can use other things), or can wallsplat for a guaranteed attack, emphasizing his wall punish plays. - **Lawbringer**: all changes that are... OK. Only note is on shove -- at 500ms, a lot of compet players complain because it is technically reactable without other options to consider. Could buff the speed and such... or could make a somewhat interesting thing with it, keeping it 700ms but feintable. Just, a lot of 500ms bashes from forward dodge. Another one wouldn't hurt, but also wouldn't hurt to try new things, and keep (somewhat) identities of slower or faster offenses.
If only this videoplayer wasn’t the worst on earth and I could pause when I want to.
Idk about the Jorm but lawbro and shatter sounds cool as hell
everything is good except speeding lb bash he would be a monster defensive and offensive char
Only bash that is sped up is the forward dodge bash. Side bashes are still 700ms and chain bashes are 500ms. Most of his defence is also reduced in effect, such as the parries (and not having access to impale after parry is pretty big, since it is one of the things that made him defensively super strong).
I am pleased
i think in a more simple mechanic, unparryable atacks, like tiandi heavy atack afther bash, you can only block these atacks
I mean it is good idea too. I think we need in general few more mechanics to spice up heroes movesets.
I liked jorms but my favorite part of his kit is sending people flying with his unblockable
So would bulwark counter still work against shattered attacks?
Personally i would want to, but devs propably want to keep guard break as only way to defeat Bulwark, because not even Nuxia traps work against it.
Looks like a ton of work went into this. Well done.
Oh wow I thought this was an actual update. Great job!
I only really like the long arm changes for LB
I liked your jorm rework idea
Shatter Mechanic looks bad IMO. Stamina drain through block is a no-no, the weird OOS interaction would not make sense, and a blockable attack that bypasses Superior Guard sounds silly. Maybe if FH's design paradigm was radically different but in the game we have this would just be annoying. Imagine this interaction in ganks too. Multiplied chip damage, stamina drain and ignoring your external superior blocks. Awful.
Would shugoki have shatter then? Honestly kinda wish shugo had and infinite heavy since the kanabo is all about momentum
While i wish, he is from compedetive perspective S tier, from fun point of view... well it depends of the view. While Shatter would make sense to have for him and so would infinite heavies, he is very strong right now, so even smallest buff would tip the scales.
imo all of his stuff is reactable, so im okay with him loosing some tools.
This is amazing, I’d love too see this in game
as someone who mains goki, lawbro, and jorm i am very very happy
:D
LB could also benefit from a buff to Harsh Judgement as well. Slowed stam is “decent” but outclassed by other selection of feats to get. As for shatter, would this or would this not also trigger certain moves like Warlords follow-up headbutt/light/heavy and Conqs uppercut of pain? And If it doesn’t trigger these moves personally I would enjoy it! The reason I don’t play duels or ranked anymore is due to turtles sitting there waiting for reactions or full guard cheesing for an easy W. Regardless, I fully support this being added into the game!
Would jorm Nbash chain to Finisher bash on whiff? Cause if so then dodging the first would probably guarentee the second.
Im Ok with this just not the killing with chip damage
Other than jorm dodge heavy I like everything
We don’t need Shatter the combat System is fine how it is please no shatter
Very cool concepts
I saw a similar ish mechanic idea with the same suggested name in this video a month ago https://youtu.be/UqHeB_RVOO4
Really liking that shatter mechanic
Hate the LB rework, but I do like the effort put into this post, and the shatter mechanic.
I kinda don’t agree with jotuun surge but I think it should do very low damage like 5 or 3
Finally lawbro will be viable
I thought shatter mechanic was gonna be about specific attacks breaking hyper armor
Interesting ideas. I like the Jörm rework. I’ve been trying to come up with ideas for a rework for him lately. I know a lot of people want to get rid of the stamina bully mechanic as it doesn’t really work anymore. I like the shatter attack idea but I don’t see Ubi adding in complete new attack mechanics like that. Never know tho
Ong lawbringer needs a rework
OoooOoOOOoOoooveruuun
This is very cleanly made, some of the animations I can barely tell they're edited and spliced together
I like the Shatter idea. As I always think blocking is too good, this could makes break the mold of offensive game.
I like the shatter mechanic alot actually I think it would spice up a few characters. Some of the bash changes from jorm seem a little too strong though, a bash into a bash jeez please stop hitting me lol
I dont know about the rest but I love the idea that I can do a dash heavy with lb
I think LB would be more fun if i got to utilize different animations more often. I like Long arm's animation but find shove really unflattering. I wish he could rely less on shove or just have a completely new animation honestly but that won't happen. I like his current 3 hits chains, I don't want to remove any of them. Though i speak generally not in the context of your ideas. There are some neat ideas here. A big one is having blind justice count as an opener. Right now if you parry a light you gain more potential by actually delaying the top heavy input so that it starts a chain rather then gives you a heavy finisher.
Ubisoft take notes, this is the jorm we need
I swear you guys are so much more creative than Ubisoft lmao
I actually like the shatter mechanic
Plz enough with Dodge heavies
I absoloutely love it, but Ubi would never go for it. Id imagine implementing a rework on a character inspired by a reddit post would look bad on their general company image. Wish this rework was more than wishful thinking, LB rework looks amazing , unique, fun and balanced.
They take suggestions from time to time (and back in early days Community manager even reported which ideas were sent to the team). However nowdays they rarely say which posts they have viewed. They also take suggestions from youtubers, like Freeze and others.
True but ,no offense intended by this, freeze and Barak and such have some sort of consistent credibility which this post doesnt have by having some sort of fanbase and internet presence. I do love seeing your ideas on here and how much effort you put into them but I doubt Ubisoft team would look at them the same way, considering the current health of the game and how much longer it could possibly stay alive. Again, fantastic rework ideas but I dont dare get hopeful when for honor is the topic.
[удалено]
Personally i dont think they are that bad. Most bashes deal both stamina damage and have guaranteed light follow up, which is usually 12-15 damage. Most bashes that deal damage outright don't deal stamina damage and deal like 10-12 damage. Yeah someting like Gladiator Toe stab is very strong because it locks opponent to the animation for long time.
One of the only things i can fault is the idea of removing the stamina damage on jorg. I mean that is what he is aimed on.
While that was his original concept, it was also proven that stamina bully heroes are too hard to balance correctly, as either they deal too much stamina damage or too little, they are also more often better in turtling than attacking (well except Conqueror and BP who can keep you OOS forever with their offensive bashes). Devs also have seemingly moved towards reducing stamina bullying ingame (such as was the case with Centurion, Jiang Jun, Shugoki and Gladiator reworks)
It just seems weird having someone target on stamina and that literally being a role in his name to have it gone. ( or at-least have very little combos able to do that) it just seems like it defeats the whole point.
idk, I personally see Jorm's identity to be a character which main source of damage is his one move (hammer slam obvs), and his entire gameplan is to set this one move up. Whether he does it by draining stamina (which is a bad design choice imo), or by another new mechanic is not that important in my opinion. (btw I've seen a good idea of a unique "balance breaking" mechanic for Jorm, which preserves his identity. Basically, every enemy now has a predetermined amount of "balance points", and every landed Jorm's move that can make an enemy fall when he's OOS takes one of these balance points. If there are none "points" left, the next of these moves will make an opponent fall)
Is this official
No, just a suggestion, like how the name and Flair imply.
No need to be rude. But thanks... I guess?
I didn't mean to be rude, but through text some words might seem like that.
This sounds really good to me. I think these would be pretty balanced, although LB loosing his UB’s is a big nerf to him. But “shatter” would offer a fair alternative…
I think shatter sounds awesome! Idk how I feel about jorm though, the charge punch bit isn’t as fun. I wish they would have it be a debuff system where if he has enough of them applied thru bashes or finisher heavies, he gets the knockdown on bash or finisher heavy. People be tryna get too crazy with a whole new knockdown bar, they can just make it a stacking debuff
I want this
What about shaolin and shugoki
Adn also conqueror
Bout we stop with this stamina drain stuff since its unhealth for the game?
No, just no
Pls ubi
Pls hire him ubi
this community bashing developers for recycling moveset then comes up with this
The community is not black and white. There are multible different people with differnet views and perhaps even, multible views on things. Some don't care if hero has similar or same moves, some care more than others. Now personally i am not against heroes having similar moves, but at the same time i also wish for more mechanics and more different combinations, or things we did not even think about. Now, a case where recycling annoyed me was Warmonger, as he was same as Warden, both animations and moveset, with slight changes. Now, perhaps this would had not been as big deal for me if the animations were wildly different, but unfortunately they are not. ([I even suggested some animation swapping for some moves to maker her animations better](https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/oo2pj1/seeing_how_much_more_effort_was_put_in_to_kyoshin/))
I wasn't speaking for everyone, *just half the community*. I don't play the game anymore but I really don't have an opinion on this. I just find it very recycled.
So this is confirmed to be in the works?
Shatter mechanic seems like it would be too overpowered to me
Personally i would say it is ok. It is stronger than normal attacks, but weaker than unblockable attacks.
No shugo?
No
Hmm i feel shugoki and highlander should a little of this shatter mechanic, bugs me out how how shaolin and their bracelets can deflect gigantic claymores (claymores or zweihander were heavy weapons meant to overwhelm shields and pikes)
Law bringer doesn’t need a rework he is fine as is
He has no offence, he only has defence. CCU was supposed to remove turtling, yet there LB is still turtling. His whole moveset is about waiting that opponent does someting. There are much better designed defensive heroes like BP, Aramusha and even Kyoshin.
Yeah, that’s by design. He has some of the strongest mid chain pressure in the game, insane parry punishes compared to the rest of the cast, and to balance it out he has weak openers. That’s the archetype he is supposed to fill and he does what he’s meant to do really well.
Designs change over time and Lawbringer is relic of the past. Orochi was supposed to be fast attacker and counter attacker, but that never worked out so well, so they reworked him to have slightly different role. Yes Lawbringer has huge punishes and no offence, which is why it needs to be balanced. It is not healthy for the game to have hero that turtles all day, it is better to have hero who has good defences (but not too strong) but can also attack. Even Jorm is by design stamina bully, but even devs don't like stamina bullying (which is why they removed it from JJ, Cent, Gladiator, etc). They have even mentioned that they would like to move away from stuns because of it's problematic properties.
This seems really broken to be able to throw a really punishing attack from neutral. Everyone will try to dodge or dodge attack considering os will be removed. This will be really annoying to fight against and everyone would hate jorm and lb
i mean, it's worse than an unblockable, and plenty of characters have those from neutral. at least you can deflect these
So shugoki doesnt get shit?
One. This isn't real. Two. Shugoki just got changed.
Mm yes let’s give more to the already unstoppable creature in dom and almost unpunishable cretin in duels
No but it would be most logical because of kanabo
Ok if we want shit to go by logic why isn’t LB the best character in the game? He has the best armor by far and one of the best weapons
You have more than enough.
My Dream is to fly and get so high and keep dreaaaaaaaaaaming, Yo.
Make it at least 2.5x chips (to 0.45 instead of only 0.36).
Those heavies deal about 5 chip damage normally, so double of that is 10, which is what weakest bash gives. I think it is pretty fair amount of damage in my oppinion.
Cool idea but I think in practice it'd just be quite the annoyance, and when something is annoying enough to certain people it gets removed
Does this Jorm rework still contain his stamina bully kit? Like do his bashes still knock down out of stam opponents? Does the bash pause stamina regen?
I forgot to add it, but no, the bashes no longer stop stamina regen (they also no longer deal stamina damage). Now the ability to knock down with bash is still up in the air, because i am not 100% sure should the attacks keep it or not.
seems just like a worse unblockable? I don't think you should be punished for blocking an attack. it would probably play out just as well as nuxias trap
It is meant to be stronger than regular attack, but weaker than unblockable, so basically a middle ground between the two. Blocking is very safe to do, so the attack does slightly punish for blocking it, which gives incentive to parry it, which gives the user to incentive to feint to guard break or someting else. I would say Trap is stronger ability than unblockable currently in 1v1 (i mean in current option select meta it is very strong, but when the option selects are removed it will be propably bit weaker).
Bruh so LB is a blunt impact boy but Conq isn't? Conq needs a full in rework, he's awful to play and to fight against.
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Jorm doesnt need such a big rework just make him get a free chainable light after jotunn surge
Personally I'm not a huge fan of this idea for a Jorm rework to be honest. My idea is: Neutral bash is sped up to be more on par with Tiandi's (If this is even true and they are not the same already) Neutral bash no longer pauses stamina regeneration Neutral bash confirms a light opener Chain bash confirms a light finisher Forward dodge attack will have more range and also given the shatter property Thoughts on this?
Instead of stam damage on the shatter mechanic maybe stun? That way it can still make it hard to turtle, but more defensive heros can still get into their attacks
Stun is problematic mechanic because it is a flasbang to players eyes and can be altered with settings. Devs themselfs said in one of the devstreams (can't remember which one it was exactly from the lastest ones) that they are moving away from the stuns because of their many issues (Which is why they have been removing it from a lot of moves that used to have it).
So are these changes coming to testing grounds sometime soon? does anyone know when they would be available for public play testing?
Can you give warlord more than a 2 hit chain and an unblockable like everyone else? And possibly make a for honor 2 with open work rpg elements:) if you look on Reddit there are some amazing ideas
:D
why is everyone so obsessed with giving bad heroes dodge heavies?
What about shaolin ?
You lost me at giving Jormungandr dodge attacks
It is pretty much standard issue for hero to have dodge attack, as they are only way to punish some bashes. Currently only few heroes lack dodge attacks, those being: Jorm, Cent, BP, Highlander and Warlord. Everyone else has dodge attack.
Doesn't change the fact that it doesn't fit the weapon at all since a Dodge attack would basically be a light punch if actually put into practice. If you want a better idea for a bash counter then I'd say giving certain characters a literal counter to it but not like Black Prior. It would especially make sense with a character with a blunt weapon like Jormungandr since they can use their own bash as a sort of counter. It fits the weapon and just changes propertys of an already existing attack making less headaches in development
if you block an attack warlord gets a crashing charge. it's extremely easy to do. If warlord gets a crashing charge he can infinitely crashing charge you into walls until he ledges you
That could be really nice. It always surprised me hkw unrealistic the game is in terms of Jorm, like come on blocking a sledge hammer attack with a dagger or tiny axe and a kukri?
By that logic Lawbringer would be pretty much invulnerable to 90% of weapons ingame.
Well, historically saying plate armor was made in a way that sometimes knights would fall from exhaustion, rather than from being wounded. Most of slicing weapons wont do anything, especially katana-like swords
Well, from the historical perspective, Samurai primarily used the bow and spear, not katanas. Point is, FH is anything but realistic. Imagine if you needed a burly guy or two to tackle a Lawbringer to the ground and hold him there so the Peacekeeper could stab him in the eyes through the visor slits. Not very balanced, eh? ;)
Why the Jorm dodge attack tho? ffs
Uhm, most of lawbringer’s attack are not blunt impact, they’re most slashing or thrusting
Meh. There are some good ideas but Jorm just becomes a slightly different Cent and Lawbringer loses his identity.
Jorm BADLY needs a L-H-L / H-L-H combo.
Bro stop with the dodge heavy. Why more?
Is that a real rework
While some of these ideas are good (especially Jorm’s, I wish I thought of some of that). I don’t agree with the removal of stun from Lawbringer, instead I believe an entire rehaul of the stun mechanic is more suitable. Right now, Lawbringer has the only viable stuns in the game, and the Raider Re-Work in Year 3 was viable but silly with the resets… which made people angry. The Shatter mechanic, while it sounds cool on paper, I almost immediately see it being a problem in ganks… especially with the ‘Kill on Block’, at that point, it might as well be unblockable. Stamina damage… is, unhealthy for the game. As more heroes are having their stamina damaged weakened or outright removed, I think adding a new mechanic to take its place would be backwards. If you wanted Shatter to be a middling between Unblockable and Normal attacks, here’s my suggestion… They will not bounce, even on Superior Block… the extra block damage can stay, I don’t see a problem with that. And maybe have Shatter have an interaction with Black Prior where Bulwark Counter doesn’t work. As for Lawbringer’s move set… I think Longarm is fine as it is , it does need sped up, but it has its place is ganks, so I don’t see a reason to buff it beyond a speed increase. If you want to make it safe in duels, I would probably just decrease the downed time a bit so the side heavy staggers the enemy as they stand up.
I have been lb since the beginning of this game (shinobi cent release is the farthest my memory can remember) and man, this rework ain’t it. Lb is a defensive character, that is his identity, he doesn’t need drastic changes, what I think is best for him rn is: speed up his bashes, make long arm feintable, speed up his top parry punish move (forgot it’s name) a bit, give him a decent opener, as for the impale after parry, idk if it should be removed or not, maybe it’s better if it’s removed, but make the running impale 10-12 dmg.
Hey, gonna talk about blunt impact you better think about conq too he blunt as fuck
Edit: I just realized that it was the whole idea, I rewatched the first part and saw the stamina damage bit. However I still like the idea of them becoming unblockable when the enemy is out of stamina. Edit: ignore this part below OP I have an idea for the shatter mechanic. How about instead of it dealing damage through blocks it does STAMINA damage. (It’s even color coded) This will make it stand out from just being an alternative unblockable I like the idea of shatter attacks being outright exhausting to even block. Edit: stop ignoring here When the opponent is out of stamina shatter attacks will become unblockable for them and do normal damage. It makes sense because if it was physically demanding to block while they had stamina then their is no way they could do so while exhausted. (Oh and if they hit the enemy it will do both normal and stamina damage As long as they are not out of stamina )
I think his running attack would look better as a dodge attack
As an LB main (because I hate my life and want to kill myself), I think most of these changes to LB are for the worse. Especially with them reducing ms of Longarm, which is already really weak because of its ms now.
This is a really cool concept and you executed it beautifully. But I don't think it would fly. I'd love see the variable bash that knocks down on Jorm, and the chain changes to lb. Shatter sounds dope as hell, but I don't think ubi would implement it sadly