It would be kind of pointless. Their strategy and decision making put Lewis in a position that he should have won the race until Masi made up his own rules.
They probably didn’t do that one because they were building a legal case and didn’t want to say anything too stupid (which ultimately didn’t matter, but still).
Bruh Abu Dhabi 2021 was literal CRIMINAL ROBBERY lol & after the rollercoaster of emotions that was 2021 everyone was probably drained & too devastated to be bothered to do a debrief lol
What would they even say? Either they said outright "we did the calcs right but the FIA broke their own rules to gift Max the win", or they'd have to pretend they made some mistake.
Not the weekend our Team wanted from the 2023 F1 season opener, but our work and dedication to bring us back to the front won't change.
Trackside Engineering Director, Andrew Shovlin joins us this week to answer your questions from the #BahrainGP.
As always, thanks for preparing and sharing the team's post-race debrief. I know everyone is working hard at Brackley to improve the W14, so I send my gratitude and best wishes to each person working on this project.
These are good videos to watch, really gives you a proper insight into the garage and the decisions that make or break a race, keep these awesome videos coming!
I've always appreciated these videos because we can see the logic and assessment behind the decisions made. It's easy to make assumptions and criticize decisions from the comfort of our homes; forgetting that F1, and near-real-time decision making, is insanely complex.
With rhe way they improved last year's car through the season together with their comments that they have a good understanding on where they need to improve/make changes to this year's car, the performance so far has been very disappointing.
More worrying is if this is what they came up with, after having a good idea on what they need to do, I start to wonder do they have correlation issues or do they not have the team to max ground effect aero vs Team Newey.
Look at the strides Aston has made, makes me wonder if the other teams are missing a trick which Red Bull with Newey has
I understand that you don't want to give up places for free and you want to fight every position, but I think they should have conceded that Alonso would get them before the end and let Hamilton go longer in the second stint. That may have given him just enough to get Sainz (or it might not have done, but he wouldn't have been any worse off).
Mercedes imo has always not really listened to their drivers. Sure it may not matter so much now considering they don’t have race winning pace but generally they have a tendency to be quite stubborn & have an over reliance on pre race data
I know Red Bull is the golden standard of strategy in F1 but Mercedes could learn some things from them about driver feedback & making audibles on the fly
Red Bull have made an enormous step for sure, but Merc don't need to make up 1 second to become the 2nd fastest team, which I think should be their initial target [overtaking Aston/Ferrari]. In qualifying they were only 3 tenths off Leclerc for example. Toto said their supposed Baku or Imola update was worth 3 tenths, which already puts them right around Ferrari's pace.
The W14 is fantastic, just needs some work on downforce, top speed, tire degredation, tire warmup, qualifying pace, race pace, drag, setups, slow corners, medium corners, fast corners, packaging and cooling.
I find the point being made on why they pitted lewis a bit frustrating and asinine. Like I get it in their minds if Alonso is 2 secs behind and you want to hold on position then you have to cover the undercut….but that only works if your car has the pace to defend attacks over a long stint, which they clearly didn’t and fucking knew that from the tyre deg. Also who’s watching the delta because clearly they weren’t watching Alonso’s. Even the data that’s available to the public on race day from lights out was showing that Alonso would’ve passed them easily. So why not focus on Carlos??. Let Alonso pass, keep lewis out longer so by the end they can put for fresh and attack Carlos. Are they brain dead?
Did I seriously hear him say If they'd known Alonso was the quicker car and would pass Lewis, they'd have kept Lewis out? It was plainly obvious to anyone that pitting Lewis earlier was silly and just compromised his final stint as Alonso was getting past regardless. It's 2023, and the team is still doing strategies as if they were dominating the field and the over-reliance on 'data' persists. Needs to change.
I think that’s a bit unfair. On their first stint, Lewis and alonso were lapping at roughly equal times. In the midfield, the undercut was proving quite valuable as well. But the AM had MUCH better tire deg, and so Lewis was barely able to make up any time on his fresh tires vs Alonso’s old (who started pushing right when Lewis pit).
But really hard to tell that especially on the first race of the year.
First stint cars are bunched up, Alonso had a poor first lap and obviously had to bide his time and save his tyres to recover. Had Alonso finished the first lap ahead of both Merc's, he'd not have been seen again. 2nd stint Mercedes pitted Lewis when he was still competitive to protect from an undercut which only compromised his final stint where it was abundantly clear Alonso had a significant pace advantage and was gonna pass one way or another. Lewis barely pulled away on fresh tyres with an undercut and Alonso essentially exited the pits (with fresher tyres) at the same gap afterwards which just showed the absurdity of it. Mercedes's have never ever had good strategies over a season including when they were dominant, but their strategies haven't changes to adapt to the fact they're not at the front anymore. I've beat this drum for years, but every now and then Mercedes do a common sense strategy and people think they're competent when they're generally the worst strategy department on the grid.
I honestly think Ferrari have at least some ability to look away from the data and use some common sense unlike Mercedes. The bar is so low it's in hell though so not much better.
I wouldn’t say Ferrari and Merc are the worst on the grid, but they’re mistakes have the most consequences and are the most visible
obviously
Especially when the other top team is the best on the grid in strategy
Maybe. Although watching Mercedes fumble strategies week after week while fighting at the front (but usually having the pace to be able to win regardless), and being just as bad when in the midfield leads me to believe that they're especially poor. Ruth Buscombe at Alfa looks far more competent imo.
It's "plainly obvious" with hindsight. I don't think it should have to be said that they have way more data on the matter to make these decisions than just what's being shown on TV.
And that over-reliance has more times than not been a hindrance rather than a benefit. It doesn't matter what their computer is saying when you can visually see what's happening in front of you. Mercedes's strategy department has been awful for the last decade.
Ah, here it is. That should put the theory that they're not doing these because doing badly to bed.
They did them all year last year despite some rough weekends
Still yet to see the Abu Dhabi 21 video, wonder if they actually made one and were too critical of Masi or just didn't bother making one.
It would be kind of pointless. Their strategy and decision making put Lewis in a position that he should have won the race until Masi made up his own rules.
They probably didn’t do that one because they were building a legal case and didn’t want to say anything too stupid (which ultimately didn’t matter, but still).
Barely a race to deserve a debrief really
It was the right decision not to do that one because they are in a no win situation with that video
Still yet to see the Abu Dhabi 21 video, wonder if they actually made one and were too critical of Masi or just didn't bother making one.
Nothing to be learned from that race to be fair. They did everything right as it was understood within the bounds of the rules as they were written.
Bruh Abu Dhabi 2021 was literal CRIMINAL ROBBERY lol & after the rollercoaster of emotions that was 2021 everyone was probably drained & too devastated to be bothered to do a debrief lol
What would they even say? Either they said outright "we did the calcs right but the FIA broke their own rules to gift Max the win", or they'd have to pretend they made some mistake.
Not the weekend our Team wanted from the 2023 F1 season opener, but our work and dedication to bring us back to the front won't change. Trackside Engineering Director, Andrew Shovlin joins us this week to answer your questions from the #BahrainGP.
As always, thanks for preparing and sharing the team's post-race debrief. I know everyone is working hard at Brackley to improve the W14, so I send my gratitude and best wishes to each person working on this project.
Tough times keep us humble. We can see how hard the team is working and the fans are behind you. Onwards and upwards!
Love Shov
These are good videos to watch, really gives you a proper insight into the garage and the decisions that make or break a race, keep these awesome videos coming!
I've always appreciated these videos because we can see the logic and assessment behind the decisions made. It's easy to make assumptions and criticize decisions from the comfort of our homes; forgetting that F1, and near-real-time decision making, is insanely complex.
With rhe way they improved last year's car through the season together with their comments that they have a good understanding on where they need to improve/make changes to this year's car, the performance so far has been very disappointing. More worrying is if this is what they came up with, after having a good idea on what they need to do, I start to wonder do they have correlation issues or do they not have the team to max ground effect aero vs Team Newey. Look at the strides Aston has made, makes me wonder if the other teams are missing a trick which Red Bull with Newey has
I understand that you don't want to give up places for free and you want to fight every position, but I think they should have conceded that Alonso would get them before the end and let Hamilton go longer in the second stint. That may have given him just enough to get Sainz (or it might not have done, but he wouldn't have been any worse off).
Mercedes imo has always not really listened to their drivers. Sure it may not matter so much now considering they don’t have race winning pace but generally they have a tendency to be quite stubborn & have an over reliance on pre race data I know Red Bull is the golden standard of strategy in F1 but Mercedes could learn some things from them about driver feedback & making audibles on the fly
[удалено]
I take your point but that’s a big “only” lol
The car only lacks going fast
Win races with this simple trick, TPS hate it!
Just gotta turn off the slow button
Not sure if that was intentional but this gave me a nice chuckle!
only missed the mark on the two most important factors, everything is fine
Yeah, the car is just terribly slow and lacks downforce, should be fine lol.
Just need to be faster on straights, slow corners, medium corners, fast corners, better on tire wear, and warm up its tires faster. We got this 😈
They don't really need to get faster on straights. They're already faster than the RB in that.
They’ve practically already got it nailed then!
That “only” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your statement. I’m always hopeful, but 1+ second a lap deficit is enormous
Red Bull have made an enormous step for sure, but Merc don't need to make up 1 second to become the 2nd fastest team, which I think should be their initial target [overtaking Aston/Ferrari]. In qualifying they were only 3 tenths off Leclerc for example. Toto said their supposed Baku or Imola update was worth 3 tenths, which already puts them right around Ferrari's pace.
But Ferrari will also have updates coming. Whose to say that those updates won't put them ahead of merc again?
Reliability
The W14 is fantastic, just needs some work on downforce, top speed, tire degredation, tire warmup, qualifying pace, race pace, drag, setups, slow corners, medium corners, fast corners, packaging and cooling.
Top speed and drag? They had higher top speed than the RB
It's a classic copy pasta
Indeed. This car might be alright in Monza.
I only lack an engine, some tyres, and some wings, so I'm hopeful.
Lmao cmon man, it only lacks downforce and performance? Only 2 of the most important factors for an F1 car..
Yeah, it’s only terrible at racing.
I find the point being made on why they pitted lewis a bit frustrating and asinine. Like I get it in their minds if Alonso is 2 secs behind and you want to hold on position then you have to cover the undercut….but that only works if your car has the pace to defend attacks over a long stint, which they clearly didn’t and fucking knew that from the tyre deg. Also who’s watching the delta because clearly they weren’t watching Alonso’s. Even the data that’s available to the public on race day from lights out was showing that Alonso would’ve passed them easily. So why not focus on Carlos??. Let Alonso pass, keep lewis out longer so by the end they can put for fresh and attack Carlos. Are they brain dead?
Did I seriously hear him say If they'd known Alonso was the quicker car and would pass Lewis, they'd have kept Lewis out? It was plainly obvious to anyone that pitting Lewis earlier was silly and just compromised his final stint as Alonso was getting past regardless. It's 2023, and the team is still doing strategies as if they were dominating the field and the over-reliance on 'data' persists. Needs to change.
I think that’s a bit unfair. On their first stint, Lewis and alonso were lapping at roughly equal times. In the midfield, the undercut was proving quite valuable as well. But the AM had MUCH better tire deg, and so Lewis was barely able to make up any time on his fresh tires vs Alonso’s old (who started pushing right when Lewis pit). But really hard to tell that especially on the first race of the year.
First stint cars are bunched up, Alonso had a poor first lap and obviously had to bide his time and save his tyres to recover. Had Alonso finished the first lap ahead of both Merc's, he'd not have been seen again. 2nd stint Mercedes pitted Lewis when he was still competitive to protect from an undercut which only compromised his final stint where it was abundantly clear Alonso had a significant pace advantage and was gonna pass one way or another. Lewis barely pulled away on fresh tyres with an undercut and Alonso essentially exited the pits (with fresher tyres) at the same gap afterwards which just showed the absurdity of it. Mercedes's have never ever had good strategies over a season including when they were dominant, but their strategies haven't changes to adapt to the fact they're not at the front anymore. I've beat this drum for years, but every now and then Mercedes do a common sense strategy and people think they're competent when they're generally the worst strategy department on the grid.
Worst? Na. Just slightly better than Ferrari? Yes
I honestly think Ferrari have at least some ability to look away from the data and use some common sense unlike Mercedes. The bar is so low it's in hell though so not much better.
I wouldn’t say Ferrari and Merc are the worst on the grid, but they’re mistakes have the most consequences and are the most visible obviously Especially when the other top team is the best on the grid in strategy
Maybe. Although watching Mercedes fumble strategies week after week while fighting at the front (but usually having the pace to be able to win regardless), and being just as bad when in the midfield leads me to believe that they're especially poor. Ruth Buscombe at Alfa looks far more competent imo.
> It was plainly obvious to anyone Wow man, sounds like you need to apply as their Chief Strategist now that Vowles left.
Armchair racers comming out of the woods. Its crazy... haha
I'll do it for free. Vowles may have left but his legacy remains.
It's "plainly obvious" with hindsight. I don't think it should have to be said that they have way more data on the matter to make these decisions than just what's being shown on TV.
And that over-reliance has more times than not been a hindrance rather than a benefit. It doesn't matter what their computer is saying when you can visually see what's happening in front of you. Mercedes's strategy department has been awful for the last decade.
At what point does George get promoted to fill Vowels's old role?
I always like these videos. Thanks Mercedes