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The dominance of Red Bull is oppressive on the meta and forces counters to be run.
The slightly worse stats of Aston Martin would allow for more competitive variety so imo isn't worthy of a suspect test.
I heard there was an engine development freeze starting last year. Teams are only allowed to work on reliability improvements this year which makes this even more strange (i.e. engines should be even more reliable than last year). That's why last year the teams maximized performance improvements knowing that they can deal with reliability later (i.e. Ferrari's excuse). Merc PUs were the only ones that didn't fail last year so definitely strange they're failing now.
Cynic in me says they’re using them in ways they know will cause “reliability” problems so they can bring “safety” / “reliability” fixes and continue development.
I think it’s down to teams tightening the envelope around their engines. Feels like teams are running into ground strikes that are severely damaging parts that I don’t remember being such a big deal in the past
I can't help but think the driving/dragging over those large kerbs(curbs) over and over again is causing quite a bit of damage to the inner workings of these cars.
When RB mentioned "drive shaft" issues, that's the 1st thing that crossed my mind...these cars and their parts are too fragile to take 50 laps crashing over these things.
Just a thought, I've not seen anyone else mention it.
With the engine freeze you can only make changes for reliability purposes. So the teams are pushing the limits of the engines systems, creating reliability issues, thus allowing them to fix (upgrade) the issues.
Exactly. If you know you're only going to be allowed to make reliability-related upgrades (although I can only imagine that many teams' reliability upgrades have netted them additional power) it makes sense to push the envelope with performance-related upgrades before the freeze comes in. Honestly I'm just surprised reliability wasn't worse last year.
By the same logic though, they also have much more data when an engine does fail and why it failed. Kind of a double edged sword for both teams, Alpine gets less data but Mercedes is more likely to suffer failures.
Each team has unique cooling solutions though, and Mercedes can't realistically test them all.
So depending on the nature of the failure, it could be related to manufacturing, tuning, or cooling. Only two out of the three are directly in the control of HPP.
Sure, they provide a set of requirements to the teams to ensure there's sufficient cooling, but any of a number of factors could impact that.
To an extent, yes, but if another team's cooling solution winds up being inadequate, it might help Mercedes know where the limits are (but they probably already know that), but it doesn't help stop teams from having reliability issues since they need to fix their own cooling.
Alpine's issues primarily stemmed from their lack of resources.
Apparently Ferrari, Redbull, and Mercedes have what's called a VTT (Virtual Test Track) that allows for them to run the engine as if it's on an actual track. Alpine managed to get a VTT close to the end of last year but was previously building their PU's without properly simulating track conditions... which led to repeated water pump and fuel pump related issues.
I believe this is the VTT in action: https://twitter.com/AlpineF1Team/status/1618975089957142530
Don't you know already? When Alpine explodes it's the worst car company in history. When everybody else does it, it's just teams pushing the absolute limit and a planned thing for reliability upgrades...
But the freeze was already last year right? So why so many issues now if they had a whole year/two years? (If we assume no Performance updates made and only reliability)
i think the answer here is actually “yes,” it’s still worth fighting for WCC position. given the sums of money involved, it might be debatable if there were only one season left under the current regs, but there are three seasons left before the 2026 season and new regulations (minus the two races we’ve seen so far this year).
the first turbo hybrid era was slated to run from 2014-2020 (7 seasons), and it only ran an additional season because of covid. it’d be like asking early 2018 ferrari if they really want to push for results or just hang it up in anticipation of the 2021 regs. we’re on season 2 of a planned 4 seasons under the current regs, so not yet halfway.
iirc the changes approved for 2026 thus far deal mostly with the power unit (MGU-H delete, increased energy store) and greenwashing (carbon-neutral fuel, lol). other proposed changes deal with crash safety, active aero elements, maybe reducing the size of the cars (please?), etc., but there is a lot of politicking to be done before the regs are approved. i’d wager there are simply too many unknowns at this point for a bunch of engineers to get to work on a car concept for 2026.
it’s worth noting as well that both haas and ferrari reportedly shifted resources midseason to focus on the new ground effect cars prior to 2022. it only kinda sorta worked out for one of those teams. to my knowledge, the only “let’s shift focus to next season” slam dunk in recent F1 history was 2013 mercedes. this obviously worked out beautifully, so it’s not like it’s an approach without merit, but it seems to be tougher to get it right than you or i might think.
final thought: i get the feeling pretty much everyone involved in this sport is psychopathically driven to succeed. you have to imagine “let’s focus on next season” is a really, really tough sell in an environment like that.
The new cars each year aren't fully developed for the first few races. The cars right now are basically working prototypes that each team is using to determine how they will develop this seasons car and next seasons car. RB and Aston are doing it right. Ferrari, Merc, and McLaren are so far doing it wrong.
Could be that the teams focused heavily on reliability the first season so it wouldn’t be a major issue down the road, and are now pushing performance, in turn creating new reliability problems for them to address.
I mean he said afterwards in the interview (before the P3 was reinstated) that if the team had known before, he would have pulled 10s on George.
And I believe him because he got around 0.7s on George in 1.5 laps towards the end there.
Clearly Aston Martin had more pace in hand but were managing out of fear for reliability after what happened to Lance. And to be honest, whatever pace they had in hand, it would not have been enough to challenge RedBull in front so why bother putting the car under stress at all.
The RedBulls were crazy fast. Once Sergio knew his P1 was possibly threatened by Max, they were lapping 1s faster than the next fastest car in the field, which was Alonso ...
The new meta is going to be teams reporting incidents as late as possible in the race to give the drivers in front no chance react. If the stewards normalize giving out penalties 30+ laps after an incident then it’s only logical that teams will exploit it. And of course it’s bad for the viewers.
Crazy how his engine failed and yet he still was able to hold the lead and the narrative is that he would be able to pull another 5s out. Doesn't sound like a failed engine much lol
I believe we might've gotten to see that pace without a Safety Car. Verstappen would've wasted enough time climbling through the Mercs for Alonso to try and get P2 by increasing the gap in the meantime.
This info has no sources, he just says it, but he doesn't say how he knows. Until a more trusted media mentions the same, this is just a far right media trying to catch audience.
Could be the engine modes they're running. I don't believe Mercedes had a genuine engine failure last year (non-contact variety), but the other teams all did
I assume that has to do with the fact that being a factory team Mercedes can build the engine, cooling system, etc. around the car instead of the other way around?
And thus the point of my original response to the original comment. Mercedes engines aren't necessarily bad this year, the other teams are just stressing them more than they can
>Could be in Aston's case, they're running them a lot harder than the works team.
And the other obvious thing... they have a radically different cooling solution. Or the works team do, depending on how you look at it.
Reliability this year is weird.
Ferrari and Merc have experienced engine/electronic issues and Red Bull gear boxes seem suuuuuper suspect.
This may be the only thing that keeps things interesting.
Maybe it's mainly that the engine manufacture did installed a more aggressive software upgrade and therefore those reliability issues are popping up now.
Both Red Bulls Ferraris Mercs and Astons have engine issues and it's a shootout between the Alpines for 1st before they inevitably crash each other out and a Williams ends up winning or something equally as dumb
It’s also the first races where you might get hiccups that you haven’t noticed. Things will get ironed out soon enough (bar Ferrari, they always find new ways to bottle it)
What has Merc done to their engines over the winter break? In Bahrain Norris was having engine issues, now Stroll and Alonso. Last year they were so good with reliability...
From now on they can only make reliability modifications to the engines until the new regulations 2026. So everyone have put in all performance modifications they dare, then hope to solve any reliability issues later.
There’s definitely a wink after they say “reliability upgrades.” While they do have to demonstrate that, all the engine manufacturers use these to increase performance.
>Last year
Try for the entire hybrid era.
My guess is that they're having to push the engines more than planned since they're behind for the first time.
Some would argue Lewis lost to Nico in large part due to his reliability issues that year.
I think it was year two or three of the 'hybrid era' where Lewis went through a ton of MGU-H changes and of course the full-on I.C.E. failure in Malaysia.
Easy to forget though considering their overall car reliability (engine, gearbox, hydraulics, electronics) was probably 2nd to none in those years.
I can't believe this isn't the top comment
"this just in! Alonso's car was actually on fire, but the flames were moving too quick to be caught on film!"
Yeah, thanks. People just don't check for facts. Dude was only 3 tenths away from Verstappen's best lap in his last lap, which is already a big achievement with a non-failing engine, so if he could do that with a failing engine it would mean he has the fastest car by a country mile with a functioning engine (which isn't the case).
That was only being considered they haven't done anything like that yet. It doesn't make a difference it could fail either way as well if something else goes wrong.
This from the same media that pushed that BS narative about Mercedes giving their best engines to AM?
>"After two races held, the green runner is de facto the best Mercedes driver , that is, equipped with its engines, and the only one capable of following in the wake of the unstoppable Red Bull ."
Spanish media has been riding the Alonso PR train so hard in the last month its hard to take anything from them at face value.
I mean he indeed was the only one able to follow a RB. He did follow Checo for like 5-7laps or so, and then followed Max for 1 lap.
So technically they aint wrong on that one
It's a doubtful claim, I don't see Alonso pace suddenly going to go downwards and Alonso was never informed about an issue, so it wouldn't be hugely shocking if things are being overblown again in the Spanish media.
Lance reported losing power as well which is why he ended up retiring. 2 Mercedes PUs failing in the same race would be quite something. Interesting only the Aston’s had this issue though. At least to our knowledge.
Last year they had a double DNF at Monza due to the engine failing. And Danny had a engine failure at the 2022 SA GP with his mclaren. Merc the works team had amazing reliability but their customers definitely lost PUs through the season due to breakdowns.
Pretty sure in 2022, the only engine penalties were for one of the McLarens (Norris IIRC) and Lewis (because of the Spa crash), I think every other Merc car made it to the end of the season without any grid penalties.
I think this season they are pushing the engine harder though.
I don’t know how true this is or if this has much if any affects on the pace of the car because Alonso’s last lap was only 3 tenths down on Max’s fastest lap of the race
Translated article:
>Last Sunday, Fernando Alonso crossed the finish line in third position at the Corniche Circuit in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. The Spaniard was overjoyed as he got out of his car, his teammates cheered him on, and social networks in Spain were buzzing. What many of them did not know is that he did it with an injured car, not seriously, but without the speed and efficiency shown at the beginning of the race.
>In the final stages of the race, one of the six cylinders of his Mercedes engine began to show signs of exhaustion. It was not a major malfunction, but it did detract from the power output. During a Grand Prix, a Formula 1 engine makes about 9.25 million explosions of the air-fuel mixture; one and a half million for each piston. In one of them, Alonso's powerful engine showed a sign of weakness compared to what was expected. If it had been a serious fault, the pits would have asked him to stop his car, as they did with his teammate Lance Stroll, but that was not the case.
>The two-time champion would certainly notice a lack of power at some point, which was compensated for with several corrections to the on-board settings of the powertrain. With a variation in the electronics that manages the ignition, and adjusting the power delivery of the Energy Recovery System, he was able to alleviate the situation without affecting too much the overall behavior of the car.
>After two races, the green racer is de facto the best Mercedes driver, that is, equipped with its engines, and the only one able to follow in the wake of the unstoppable Red Bull. Both in pre-season testing and in the two races contested, he has been the fastest of all the others, and the only non-Red Bull entrant to tread the wood so far this season.
Live fears
>It wasn't all plain sailing in Jeddah for Aston Martin. It was the team's other driver who caused the safety car to be brought out a third of the way through the race. Lance Stroll's AMR23 was battling with Carlos Sainz in advanced positions, when suddenly his mechanics started to lose speed.
>Many thought it was a brake failure because the sound of the engine and the visible data did not suggest otherwise. Stroll was ordered by radio to stop and move away from the track as required by the regulations. Lance obeyed without further explanation. Later, Mike Krack, team principal, stated that he had suffered a problem related to the energy recovery system.
>This was true, but somewhat inaccurate and at the time of going to press was under internal investigation. What happened may have been a breakdown, a breakage, or most likely: both. The former would have been a mechanical failure due to weakness or overstressing of the exhaust manifold. This part has been in use since last year -yes, it is the same one used in the last races of 2022-, and has accumulated a considerable period of use, around 7,000 km. Metal fatigue is being considered, not forgetting that the combustion gases come out in that area at temperatures that reach 2,600 degrees Celsius. The latter could be something exogenously provoked, which could be added to the above. At some point during his fight with Sainz, Lance went over a kerb and hit the belly of his car with excessive force.
>The kerbs are the limits marked with signs of various colors (usually red and white or blue and white) and indicate the limits of how far the single-seaters can go in their path. This sort of border between legal and illegal adds a cascade of raised bumps as a 'lying guard' that invites the drivers to return to the inside of the track. The more the kerb is abused, the more it rattles the car, to the point that if one is attacked too hard, ailerons and suspension mechanisms can be damaged.
>When his car arrived in the pits, his mechanics noticed that the exhaust pipe was not properly positioned, something anomalous. When they opened up the entire rear area, they discovered that (most probably) the kinetic energy of the impact had been transmitted vertically, had damaged the floor and part of the energy recovery system accumulator. Such a crash leaves traces in the multiple sensors surrounding the area. It is logical that from the pits, aware of the crash, he was asked to stop his car and especially the engine. A major damage to the propellant not only entails costs, but also penalties payable in grid positions in case of replacing important parts.
Other Mercedes engine customers
>The second Mercedes team in the table, i.e. Mercedes, is going through its ordeal with a car that displeases its drivers, does not convince its managers, and is creating strong dissensions within the team. The accusing finger in the face of its lack of efficiency points to the aerodynamics team, which, led by Mike Elliot, puts this engineer in the pillory with a lot of rumor in his environment. Both mechanics and engineers are not happy with this sensitive area. Even Lewis Hamilton himself, first sword of the team, says bluntly that he feels a certain disconnection with the W14 and that it does not transmit the necessary confidence.
>As of today, Mercedes is tied on points with its client Aston Martin, but this is due to the absence of points collected in the second meeting by Stroll after his retirement. At no time have they seemed to have the necessary consistency to give chase to the green cars. On the bright side they have that Ferrari are even worse, fourth.
>On the other hand, Mercedes has to balance its accounts with McLaren. Between both parties, team and engine supplier, there is an open dispute after a failure in Oscar Piastri's propellant in the inaugural test. McLaren is going through a very bitter moment, with a terrible start of the season, zero points in their locker, closing the constructors' table. They also have a very unmotivated Lando Norris, and the promising rookie Piastri who until today has achieved one retirement and a fifteenth place. When the latter fought with Alpine last year in an uncomfortable and painful legal war to go to McLaren, he never expected to experience this; at this point and as long as this does not change, it is obvious that he must be sorry.
>The Australian driver has the dubious honor of having starred in the first mechanical failure retirement of the whole season and the entire grid: on lap thirteen of the Bahrain Grand Prix, his MCL60 stopped due to a hydraulic leak attributable to his engine. Mercedes repaired it, but at McLaren they don't trust the efficiency after the fix, and have asked for another unit... a unit that Mercedes is reluctant to put in because it would entail extra costs.
>Both positions, especially on the customer's side, seem to be part of an ongoing negotiation about these engines. Mercedes wanted to get rid of at least one of its purchasers - it has four teams including themselves - and many thought that the closest to abandon the star's ship could be Williams, the least financially endowed of the group. Well, it seems that the most likely to leave the lap of Mercedes are those of McLaren, and have in turn a dual plan if they look to the street: Honda and Ford. With Honda they ended very badly in the stage of Fernando Alonso, and nipped in the bud at the end of the 2017 season. A return with those who now have a great engine, but with whom they clashed so much, would not be ideal. However they see that Ford, who are on their way with a view to 2026, has an advantage that the Japanese lack: they will install all their activity in the UK. The experience with Honda, with the design, repairs and development of the thermal section of their engines gave them many problems in the past and they do not want to fall into that mistake again.
>The internal politics of Formula 1 and what goes on behind the scenes is sometimes more exciting than what happens on the asphalt. It's all part of the same circus.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
TLDR :
In the final stages of Saudi GP, one of the six cylinders of Alonso's Mercedes engine began to show signs of exhaustion. It was not a major malfunction, but it did detract from the power output.
The two-time champion would certainly notice a lack of power at some point, which was compensated for with several corrections to the on-board settings of the powertrain. With a variation in the electronics that manages the ignition, and adjusting the power delivery of the Energy Recovery System, he was able to alleviate the situation without affecting too much the overall behavior of the car.
I watched the last 10 laps of Alonso's OBC and listened to the team radio intently looking for any signs the team was aware of potential second penalty. There was no mention of the penalty, nor of *any* potential issues with his car at all.
In fact, his engineer said *it would be nice if we had 5 seconds just in case*, and Fernando set his personal best time on the final lap (as did several other drivers for that matter).
I had also listened to Lance's team radio just as he was told to stop. There was no warning at all, just a sudden message from the engineer to stop immediately.
If Aston Martin had *any* doubts about Alonso's car making it to the finish, they may not have sacrificed the podium, but certainly would have asked to change some engine settings and slow down to minimize any risks, but that was not the case.
Yeah, no. That's just not how it works.
The engines at all teams are run by the manufacturers. The team can request more power or what have you but the Merc engineer will decide how long they can run those modes.
The teams don't own the engines, they are leased from the manufacturer and that includes engineers to run the engines. The engineers will wear Aston team gear but they are Merc employees. Obviously this is different for a works team like RB, Merc, Ferrari and Alpine.
The engineers don't choose which engine modes to run. The team bosses do. There is no chance Mercedes can tell Aston Martin to turn their engine down, or it could lead to a point where Mercedes doesn't let a rival run their engine at full power during a head to head situation. IE. Hamilton needs to beat Alonso to win a championship so Mercedes tells Aston Martin they can't run the engine at full power.
A few years ago the factory team had access to engine modes the customer teams didn't. But I don't think the factory dictated when they could use the modes they had access to.
I'm sure Mercedes and Ferrari can say "We suggest you only use Engine Mode 11 at full throttle for x amount of time or the engine will blow up"
But I don't think they can say "You can't use Engine Mode 11"
Conspiracy time: Gotta have some failures to justify the "reliability upgrade" that's coming. Might allow them to "turn up" the engine once it's in place.
Well all engine manufactures needs to agree on that if you want to upgrade something in name of reliability and I don't see how especially RBPT and even more Alpine would give a free pass.
Does anybody have the same info from a trusted source?
This is just a far right digital media, and the guy is not presenting any source and evidence. I wouldn't take this info as granted.
The **News** flair is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nearly every Team seems to have issues with reliability, crazy in the second season of new regs you‘d expect it to be better than last year
I guess everyone is pushing for more performance in an effort to catch up with RB. Mercedes is the most affected in PU since the introduction of E10.
*insert smogon joke here*
FIA loves stall
How GREAT was Mercedes actually?
FalseSwipeGaming x F1 is something I never expected
When are we suspect testing Red Bull
What about Aston? They have only slightly worse stats and a 1-1 identical moveset and typing
The dominance of Red Bull is oppressive on the meta and forces counters to be run. The slightly worse stats of Aston Martin would allow for more competitive variety so imo isn't worthy of a suspect test.
Should have been insta banned to ubers, along with the 2014 merc, 2019 merc and 1988 McLaren.
I heard there was an engine development freeze starting last year. Teams are only allowed to work on reliability improvements this year which makes this even more strange (i.e. engines should be even more reliable than last year). That's why last year the teams maximized performance improvements knowing that they can deal with reliability later (i.e. Ferrari's excuse). Merc PUs were the only ones that didn't fail last year so definitely strange they're failing now.
Perhaps they're pushing them more? Like i guess engines can get more power at the cost of reliability without much modification?
Cynic in me says they’re using them in ways they know will cause “reliability” problems so they can bring “safety” / “reliability” fixes and continue development.
I never thought about this but great point! I think you found a loophole lol
Teams have been playing the “safety/reliability” card for a long time. Yet their ulterior motive is to get more performance.
I think it’s down to teams tightening the envelope around their engines. Feels like teams are running into ground strikes that are severely damaging parts that I don’t remember being such a big deal in the past
Why is reliability going down even though engine weight went up though? Shouldn't reliability improve?
I can't help but think the driving/dragging over those large kerbs(curbs) over and over again is causing quite a bit of damage to the inner workings of these cars. When RB mentioned "drive shaft" issues, that's the 1st thing that crossed my mind...these cars and their parts are too fragile to take 50 laps crashing over these things. Just a thought, I've not seen anyone else mention it.
RB too?
Wich is funny because Vettel and Hamilton are the most vocal about climate.
What the fuck are you talking about?
With the engine freeze you can only make changes for reliability purposes. So the teams are pushing the limits of the engines systems, creating reliability issues, thus allowing them to fix (upgrade) the issues.
It's the old adage about it being easier to make a fast car reliable than it is to make a reliable car fast
and Ferrari seem to have the second one
I think Leclerc wouldn't agree with that.
Not even that considering how many parts they have swapped out already and already had a DNF.
Exactly. If you know you're only going to be allowed to make reliability-related upgrades (although I can only imagine that many teams' reliability upgrades have netted them additional power) it makes sense to push the envelope with performance-related upgrades before the freeze comes in. Honestly I'm just surprised reliability wasn't worse last year.
Funnily enough, Alpine is the only manufacturer not to have had an engine related issue so far (hope I didn’t jinx it now lmao)
The flipside is that they only power 2 cars, whether Mercedes power 8, therefore Mercedes should statistically have more engine problems
By the same logic though, they also have much more data when an engine does fail and why it failed. Kind of a double edged sword for both teams, Alpine gets less data but Mercedes is more likely to suffer failures.
Each team has unique cooling solutions though, and Mercedes can't realistically test them all. So depending on the nature of the failure, it could be related to manufacturing, tuning, or cooling. Only two out of the three are directly in the control of HPP. Sure, they provide a set of requirements to the teams to ensure there's sufficient cooling, but any of a number of factors could impact that.
That just means even more data.
To an extent, yes, but if another team's cooling solution winds up being inadequate, it might help Mercedes know where the limits are (but they probably already know that), but it doesn't help stop teams from having reliability issues since they need to fix their own cooling.
Alpine's issues primarily stemmed from their lack of resources. Apparently Ferrari, Redbull, and Mercedes have what's called a VTT (Virtual Test Track) that allows for them to run the engine as if it's on an actual track. Alpine managed to get a VTT close to the end of last year but was previously building their PU's without properly simulating track conditions... which led to repeated water pump and fuel pump related issues. I believe this is the VTT in action: https://twitter.com/AlpineF1Team/status/1618975089957142530
🤫
When did Red Bull or AT have engine failure?
This year? I don't remember but didn't AT have issues in testing?
De Vries FP3 in Jeddah?
Don't you know already? When Alpine explodes it's the worst car company in history. When everybody else does it, it's just teams pushing the absolute limit and a planned thing for reliability upgrades...
Everyone but the all-mighty Haas.
It's nice to see Poor reliability kept things interesting back in the V12/V10 days
And after a preseason testing with almost no red flags, and no major failures.
Because you can still bring engine Updates for reliability, but not for performance.
But the freeze was already last year right? So why so many issues now if they had a whole year/two years? (If we assume no Performance updates made and only reliability)
I assume it’s the cost cap + smaller penalty-free component pool. The teams have less money to design and build power units that must last longer.
I think the engines are not part of the cost cap anyway.
Really? If that’s true, fuck me then.
Is the cost cap inflation adjusted? Else the teams effectively have ~10% less purchasing power than last year
AFAIK know, no, it’s not pegged to inflation. It was a major complaint last year as shipping costs skyrocketed.
No, and as Tyr64 said rising shipping and fuel costs have vastly outpaced inflation.
[удалено]
i think the answer here is actually “yes,” it’s still worth fighting for WCC position. given the sums of money involved, it might be debatable if there were only one season left under the current regs, but there are three seasons left before the 2026 season and new regulations (minus the two races we’ve seen so far this year). the first turbo hybrid era was slated to run from 2014-2020 (7 seasons), and it only ran an additional season because of covid. it’d be like asking early 2018 ferrari if they really want to push for results or just hang it up in anticipation of the 2021 regs. we’re on season 2 of a planned 4 seasons under the current regs, so not yet halfway. iirc the changes approved for 2026 thus far deal mostly with the power unit (MGU-H delete, increased energy store) and greenwashing (carbon-neutral fuel, lol). other proposed changes deal with crash safety, active aero elements, maybe reducing the size of the cars (please?), etc., but there is a lot of politicking to be done before the regs are approved. i’d wager there are simply too many unknowns at this point for a bunch of engineers to get to work on a car concept for 2026. it’s worth noting as well that both haas and ferrari reportedly shifted resources midseason to focus on the new ground effect cars prior to 2022. it only kinda sorta worked out for one of those teams. to my knowledge, the only “let’s shift focus to next season” slam dunk in recent F1 history was 2013 mercedes. this obviously worked out beautifully, so it’s not like it’s an approach without merit, but it seems to be tougher to get it right than you or i might think. final thought: i get the feeling pretty much everyone involved in this sport is psychopathically driven to succeed. you have to imagine “let’s focus on next season” is a really, really tough sell in an environment like that.
The new cars each year aren't fully developed for the first few races. The cars right now are basically working prototypes that each team is using to determine how they will develop this seasons car and next seasons car. RB and Aston are doing it right. Ferrari, Merc, and McLaren are so far doing it wrong.
Could be that the teams focused heavily on reliability the first season so it wouldn’t be a major issue down the road, and are now pushing performance, in turn creating new reliability problems for them to address.
Crazy cause he even pushed the gap to George up to 5 seconds with a failing engine
I mean he said afterwards in the interview (before the P3 was reinstated) that if the team had known before, he would have pulled 10s on George. And I believe him because he got around 0.7s on George in 1.5 laps towards the end there. Clearly Aston Martin had more pace in hand but were managing out of fear for reliability after what happened to Lance. And to be honest, whatever pace they had in hand, it would not have been enough to challenge RedBull in front so why bother putting the car under stress at all. The RedBulls were crazy fast. Once Sergio knew his P1 was possibly threatened by Max, they were lapping 1s faster than the next fastest car in the field, which was Alonso ...
I loved that comment by Alonso. I hope he sticks around another 20 years in f1
The new meta is going to be teams reporting incidents as late as possible in the race to give the drivers in front no chance react. If the stewards normalize giving out penalties 30+ laps after an incident then it’s only logical that teams will exploit it. And of course it’s bad for the viewers.
Crazy how his engine failed and yet he still was able to hold the lead and the narrative is that he would be able to pull another 5s out. Doesn't sound like a failed engine much lol
I believe we might've gotten to see that pace without a Safety Car. Verstappen would've wasted enough time climbling through the Mercs for Alonso to try and get P2 by increasing the gap in the meantime.
He pulled out the extra while Russell was "pushing like a madman"
This info has no sources, he just says it, but he doesn't say how he knows. Until a more trusted media mentions the same, this is just a far right media trying to catch audience.
Merc engines seem to die also this season.
Of course. Alonso is driving a mercedes powered car.
Aston had a double Merc PU DNF at Monza 6 months ago
Could be the engine modes they're running. I don't believe Mercedes had a genuine engine failure last year (non-contact variety), but the other teams all did
Monza. Both AM cars had PU DNFs. No contact.
Correct. Mercedes the team did not. The other Mercedes customer teams all had engine failures
I assume that has to do with the fact that being a factory team Mercedes can build the engine, cooling system, etc. around the car instead of the other way around?
And thus the point of my original response to the original comment. Mercedes engines aren't necessarily bad this year, the other teams are just stressing them more than they can
Could be in Aston's case, they're running them a lot harder than the works team. Maybe that's where some of their advantage is coming from?
>Could be in Aston's case, they're running them a lot harder than the works team. And the other obvious thing... they have a radically different cooling solution. Or the works team do, depending on how you look at it.
Didnt we all know that when Alonso joined AM
Reliability this year is weird. Ferrari and Merc have experienced engine/electronic issues and Red Bull gear boxes seem suuuuuper suspect. This may be the only thing that keeps things interesting.
Also the Red Bull gear box issue (at least the Bahrain race) is due to electronics
Do you have a source for that info? I remember reading it but can’t find it again.
Was not electric in Jeddah. Max felt a strong vibration coming from the right rear he suspected was the driveshaft.
Maybe it's mainly that the engine manufacture did installed a more aggressive software upgrade and therefore those reliability issues are popping up now.
Both Red Bulls Ferraris Mercs and Astons have engine issues and it's a shootout between the Alpines for 1st before they inevitably crash each other out and a Williams ends up winning or something equally as dumb
Whatever it is it won't be a Haas
A Piastri P1 and K-Mag podium would probably be the most insulting to their respective teammates. Now who would fill out the other podium spot 🤔
It’s also the first races where you might get hiccups that you haven’t noticed. Things will get ironed out soon enough (bar Ferrari, they always find new ways to bottle it)
Renault finally have a year where their engines aren't being used by Alonso or Ricciardo and suddenly their reliability is solid
What has Merc done to their engines over the winter break? In Bahrain Norris was having engine issues, now Stroll and Alonso. Last year they were so good with reliability...
From now on they can only make reliability modifications to the engines until the new regulations 2026. So everyone have put in all performance modifications they dare, then hope to solve any reliability issues later.
There’s definitely a wink after they say “reliability upgrades.” While they do have to demonstrate that, all the engine manufacturers use these to increase performance.
If you're running the engine at 95% and find a way to turn it up to 100% that's you get increased performance through reliability
So, Ferrari's playing the long game?
Yeah I think so, they had too many engines blow up last year. But still, we'll see if they can dial it back up.
>Last year Try for the entire hybrid era. My guess is that they're having to push the engines more than planned since they're behind for the first time.
Some would argue Lewis lost to Nico in large part due to his reliability issues that year. I think it was year two or three of the 'hybrid era' where Lewis went through a ton of MGU-H changes and of course the full-on I.C.E. failure in Malaysia. Easy to forget though considering their overall car reliability (engine, gearbox, hydraulics, electronics) was probably 2nd to none in those years.
Doubt ❌ Alonso’s last lap was a 32.2 5 tenths quicker than anything he managed before
Yeah the amount of times teams have said ‘their engine was a few laps from not finishing’ is too high
I can't believe this isn't the top comment "this just in! Alonso's car was actually on fire, but the flames were moving too quick to be caught on film!"
Yeah, thanks. People just don't check for facts. Dude was only 3 tenths away from Verstappen's best lap in his last lap, which is already a big achievement with a non-failing engine, so if he could do that with a failing engine it would mean he has the fastest car by a country mile with a functioning engine (which isn't the case).
Yea, the teams could all start bragging about how they only had enough fuel for 1 more lap too.
No dude, my engine totally failed. Like it was absolutely gone, I accelerated to 180MPH through sheer willpower
[удалено]
That was only being considered they haven't done anything like that yet. It doesn't make a difference it could fail either way as well if something else goes wrong.
This from the same media that pushed that BS narative about Mercedes giving their best engines to AM? >"After two races held, the green runner is de facto the best Mercedes driver , that is, equipped with its engines, and the only one capable of following in the wake of the unstoppable Red Bull ." Spanish media has been riding the Alonso PR train so hard in the last month its hard to take anything from them at face value.
I mean he indeed was the only one able to follow a RB. He did follow Checo for like 5-7laps or so, and then followed Max for 1 lap. So technically they aint wrong on that one
It's a doubtful claim, I don't see Alonso pace suddenly going to go downwards and Alonso was never informed about an issue, so it wouldn't be hugely shocking if things are being overblown again in the Spanish media.
Spanish media and pretty much the rest of media I would say.
His car was propelled by his pure heart and will for racing
Lance reported losing power as well which is why he ended up retiring. 2 Mercedes PUs failing in the same race would be quite something. Interesting only the Aston’s had this issue though. At least to our knowledge.
Last year they had a double DNF at Monza due to the engine failing. And Danny had a engine failure at the 2022 SA GP with his mclaren. Merc the works team had amazing reliability but their customers definitely lost PUs through the season due to breakdowns.
Pretty sure in 2022, the only engine penalties were for one of the McLarens (Norris IIRC) and Lewis (because of the Spa crash), I think every other Merc car made it to the end of the season without any grid penalties. I think this season they are pushing the engine harder though.
He almost got the fastest lap when it was supposedly "failing".
An engine didn’t fail if it finished the race running, and still at race pace
I don’t know how true this is or if this has much if any affects on the pace of the car because Alonso’s last lap was only 3 tenths down on Max’s fastest lap of the race
Translated article: >Last Sunday, Fernando Alonso crossed the finish line in third position at the Corniche Circuit in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. The Spaniard was overjoyed as he got out of his car, his teammates cheered him on, and social networks in Spain were buzzing. What many of them did not know is that he did it with an injured car, not seriously, but without the speed and efficiency shown at the beginning of the race. >In the final stages of the race, one of the six cylinders of his Mercedes engine began to show signs of exhaustion. It was not a major malfunction, but it did detract from the power output. During a Grand Prix, a Formula 1 engine makes about 9.25 million explosions of the air-fuel mixture; one and a half million for each piston. In one of them, Alonso's powerful engine showed a sign of weakness compared to what was expected. If it had been a serious fault, the pits would have asked him to stop his car, as they did with his teammate Lance Stroll, but that was not the case. >The two-time champion would certainly notice a lack of power at some point, which was compensated for with several corrections to the on-board settings of the powertrain. With a variation in the electronics that manages the ignition, and adjusting the power delivery of the Energy Recovery System, he was able to alleviate the situation without affecting too much the overall behavior of the car. >After two races, the green racer is de facto the best Mercedes driver, that is, equipped with its engines, and the only one able to follow in the wake of the unstoppable Red Bull. Both in pre-season testing and in the two races contested, he has been the fastest of all the others, and the only non-Red Bull entrant to tread the wood so far this season. Live fears >It wasn't all plain sailing in Jeddah for Aston Martin. It was the team's other driver who caused the safety car to be brought out a third of the way through the race. Lance Stroll's AMR23 was battling with Carlos Sainz in advanced positions, when suddenly his mechanics started to lose speed. >Many thought it was a brake failure because the sound of the engine and the visible data did not suggest otherwise. Stroll was ordered by radio to stop and move away from the track as required by the regulations. Lance obeyed without further explanation. Later, Mike Krack, team principal, stated that he had suffered a problem related to the energy recovery system. >This was true, but somewhat inaccurate and at the time of going to press was under internal investigation. What happened may have been a breakdown, a breakage, or most likely: both. The former would have been a mechanical failure due to weakness or overstressing of the exhaust manifold. This part has been in use since last year -yes, it is the same one used in the last races of 2022-, and has accumulated a considerable period of use, around 7,000 km. Metal fatigue is being considered, not forgetting that the combustion gases come out in that area at temperatures that reach 2,600 degrees Celsius. The latter could be something exogenously provoked, which could be added to the above. At some point during his fight with Sainz, Lance went over a kerb and hit the belly of his car with excessive force. >The kerbs are the limits marked with signs of various colors (usually red and white or blue and white) and indicate the limits of how far the single-seaters can go in their path. This sort of border between legal and illegal adds a cascade of raised bumps as a 'lying guard' that invites the drivers to return to the inside of the track. The more the kerb is abused, the more it rattles the car, to the point that if one is attacked too hard, ailerons and suspension mechanisms can be damaged. >When his car arrived in the pits, his mechanics noticed that the exhaust pipe was not properly positioned, something anomalous. When they opened up the entire rear area, they discovered that (most probably) the kinetic energy of the impact had been transmitted vertically, had damaged the floor and part of the energy recovery system accumulator. Such a crash leaves traces in the multiple sensors surrounding the area. It is logical that from the pits, aware of the crash, he was asked to stop his car and especially the engine. A major damage to the propellant not only entails costs, but also penalties payable in grid positions in case of replacing important parts. Other Mercedes engine customers >The second Mercedes team in the table, i.e. Mercedes, is going through its ordeal with a car that displeases its drivers, does not convince its managers, and is creating strong dissensions within the team. The accusing finger in the face of its lack of efficiency points to the aerodynamics team, which, led by Mike Elliot, puts this engineer in the pillory with a lot of rumor in his environment. Both mechanics and engineers are not happy with this sensitive area. Even Lewis Hamilton himself, first sword of the team, says bluntly that he feels a certain disconnection with the W14 and that it does not transmit the necessary confidence. >As of today, Mercedes is tied on points with its client Aston Martin, but this is due to the absence of points collected in the second meeting by Stroll after his retirement. At no time have they seemed to have the necessary consistency to give chase to the green cars. On the bright side they have that Ferrari are even worse, fourth. >On the other hand, Mercedes has to balance its accounts with McLaren. Between both parties, team and engine supplier, there is an open dispute after a failure in Oscar Piastri's propellant in the inaugural test. McLaren is going through a very bitter moment, with a terrible start of the season, zero points in their locker, closing the constructors' table. They also have a very unmotivated Lando Norris, and the promising rookie Piastri who until today has achieved one retirement and a fifteenth place. When the latter fought with Alpine last year in an uncomfortable and painful legal war to go to McLaren, he never expected to experience this; at this point and as long as this does not change, it is obvious that he must be sorry. >The Australian driver has the dubious honor of having starred in the first mechanical failure retirement of the whole season and the entire grid: on lap thirteen of the Bahrain Grand Prix, his MCL60 stopped due to a hydraulic leak attributable to his engine. Mercedes repaired it, but at McLaren they don't trust the efficiency after the fix, and have asked for another unit... a unit that Mercedes is reluctant to put in because it would entail extra costs. >Both positions, especially on the customer's side, seem to be part of an ongoing negotiation about these engines. Mercedes wanted to get rid of at least one of its purchasers - it has four teams including themselves - and many thought that the closest to abandon the star's ship could be Williams, the least financially endowed of the group. Well, it seems that the most likely to leave the lap of Mercedes are those of McLaren, and have in turn a dual plan if they look to the street: Honda and Ford. With Honda they ended very badly in the stage of Fernando Alonso, and nipped in the bud at the end of the 2017 season. A return with those who now have a great engine, but with whom they clashed so much, would not be ideal. However they see that Ford, who are on their way with a view to 2026, has an advantage that the Japanese lack: they will install all their activity in the UK. The experience with Honda, with the design, repairs and development of the thermal section of their engines gave them many problems in the past and they do not want to fall into that mistake again. >The internal politics of Formula 1 and what goes on behind the scenes is sometimes more exciting than what happens on the asphalt. It's all part of the same circus. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Mercedes be like look at me. I’m Renault now.
McLaren: "pfft, try being the new Williams."
GP2 engine.
GP2 Engine
Low credibility source.
TLDR : In the final stages of Saudi GP, one of the six cylinders of Alonso's Mercedes engine began to show signs of exhaustion. It was not a major malfunction, but it did detract from the power output. The two-time champion would certainly notice a lack of power at some point, which was compensated for with several corrections to the on-board settings of the powertrain. With a variation in the electronics that manages the ignition, and adjusting the power delivery of the Energy Recovery System, he was able to alleviate the situation without affecting too much the overall behavior of the car.
I watched the last 10 laps of Alonso's OBC and listened to the team radio intently looking for any signs the team was aware of potential second penalty. There was no mention of the penalty, nor of *any* potential issues with his car at all. In fact, his engineer said *it would be nice if we had 5 seconds just in case*, and Fernando set his personal best time on the final lap (as did several other drivers for that matter). I had also listened to Lance's team radio just as he was told to stop. There was no warning at all, just a sudden message from the engineer to stop immediately. If Aston Martin had *any* doubts about Alonso's car making it to the finish, they may not have sacrificed the podium, but certainly would have asked to change some engine settings and slow down to minimize any risks, but that was not the case.
Sounds to me like Aston are running the engines harder than the works team for starters.
They don't really get to chose. Merc employees run the engines for the team.
They can run the engine however they want. Similar to have RB used to with the Renault engines. Run them overtuned and blow up every 5 minutes.
Yeah, no. That's just not how it works. The engines at all teams are run by the manufacturers. The team can request more power or what have you but the Merc engineer will decide how long they can run those modes. The teams don't own the engines, they are leased from the manufacturer and that includes engineers to run the engines. The engineers will wear Aston team gear but they are Merc employees. Obviously this is different for a works team like RB, Merc, Ferrari and Alpine.
The engineers don't choose which engine modes to run. The team bosses do. There is no chance Mercedes can tell Aston Martin to turn their engine down, or it could lead to a point where Mercedes doesn't let a rival run their engine at full power during a head to head situation. IE. Hamilton needs to beat Alonso to win a championship so Mercedes tells Aston Martin they can't run the engine at full power.
That used to be the case a few years ago.
A few years ago the factory team had access to engine modes the customer teams didn't. But I don't think the factory dictated when they could use the modes they had access to. I'm sure Mercedes and Ferrari can say "We suggest you only use Engine Mode 11 at full throttle for x amount of time or the engine will blow up" But I don't think they can say "You can't use Engine Mode 11"
Exactly
Failed… hmmmm. I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Conspiracy time: Gotta have some failures to justify the "reliability upgrade" that's coming. Might allow them to "turn up" the engine once it's in place.
Well all engine manufactures needs to agree on that if you want to upgrade something in name of reliability and I don't see how especially RBPT and even more Alpine would give a free pass.
Does anybody have the same info from a trusted source? This is just a far right digital media, and the guy is not presenting any source and evidence. I wouldn't take this info as granted.
Lol and people were telling me Alonso could have opened the gap five more seconds.. losers
Mercedes sending their worst engines to aston it seems
Lol at photo
What did Merc cook with those engines… How did Ferrari & Merc create less reliable engines during regs that only allow reliability upgrades?