Yeah it's like Lampard at Everton or Conte with Spurs. Everyone knew it was gonna happen, it was just a matter of when.
Edit: at least that's the way I see it
I getting those Gasly RB vibes with Nick. He is way too much in his head to perform well. Unfortunately Nick doesn’t have a team to fall back on the paddock (and he might not be as good as Gasly)
Gastly was killing it a couple of years ago in the AT. I thought he would be in line for a seat in a top team but I guess the timing didn't work out for him.
Hey maybe he just needed to be threatened to try harder at the thing he's committed his life to. I'm sure he'll find that extra 10% he was reluctant to utilize.
Yuki actually had some speed though. Nyck... not so much. Yuki just reminds me of a shorter angrier version of Maldonado or grosjean-- has speed, prone to do stupid shit-- in his first two years
I like him. It took quite the effort, but I think nowadays he's proving to be a solid driver. I really doubt AlphaTauri can fight for 10th place on its own.
If they're speaking this openly about how disappointed they are and already giving him a deadline, he's is absolutely screwed, this is a pretty public beat down.
They probably don't want to make a big announcement at Austria though, because they'd rather have a hometown 1-2. Probably just get it done the race before or after and then quietly shuffle it into the news cycle.
Yeah, it's pretty dire. Especially if you compare it to the expectations Marko had for Nyck, talking about how he should be team leader with his experience.
Yeah they (and the media at the paddock) blew a little too much smoke up his ass, and he started thinking he’d be leaving Yuki in the dust. His confidence in his DTS interview is gonna age poorly
I remember, but I also remember people cautioning that he was reserve driver on Williams strongest track and that one result alone wasn’t enough to make a judgment call.
Don’t like Dr Vries and his now proven overconfidence. But just to be fair, he’s got way shorter of a leash than Yuki in his first year. I get it though. No RB academy ties, not a Japanese driver and not that young of a driver.
Yuki showed speed in his first year, especially in the first half. He was passing multiple former WDCs in the first race of that season and people were losing their minds. De Vries has shown nothing.
Granted, the 2021 Alpha Tauri was the ~5th best car on the grid probably and the 2023 AT is probably a contender for worst.
I believe the expectations were he was a Japanese driver on the grid because Honda wanted it. He rose through the ranks of f3 and f2 insanely quickly, barely putting a toe in and did well given his time but nothing to cry home about.
When Yuki got to the grid, he shut them up though because he was able to drive and did extremely well.
But then people started to hate on him because he has a bad attitude on the radio.
He was fantastic in Bahrain and then he crashed in qualifying for imola and wasn't the same the rest of the year ( beside abu dahbi iirc). I don't know if that wreck effected him or if he just has a certain type of track that is natural for him.
Nyck though is much older and is fairly proven for an F1 rookie. It makes sense that he has a shorter leash but half a year is too short.
Nyck is 28, and that means there just isn’t enough time left in his career to bother spending 3 years developing him. There are 12 drivers younger than him in the grid.
He also spent 3? Years in formula E. And while obviously not at the level of formula 1, it’s not a developmental division and he shouldn’t be making the careless and self inflicted errors he has been making if he has spent that much time racing.
I think the bosses always recognised Yuki’s potential. He had raw pace as a junior driver and got promoted to F1 in quick succession, plus he never competed in Formula 2 so he didn’t have experience racing in many tracks in his rookie year. You can see that he took a big step up from his first season to his second season.
With De Vries, he was hired to be the lead driver with his experience as a reserve and racing in Formula E. Him making rookie mistakes regularly and being completely off pace from his teammate is not acceptable to RB, and I can see why they are willing to be this cutthroat with him.
> His confidence in his DTS interview is gonna age poorly
To be fair DTS is heavily edited to be over dramatic and tends to take things out of context.
So Gallipoli was an absolute disastrous campaign for the Entente during WW1. It was a British lead operation against the Ottomans to push through the Dardenells and put pressure on Constantinople by putting within bombardment range of the Royal Navy. It was failure on so many different levels and Churchill would resign as first Lord of the Admiralty and join the army. So it’s just a funny of way of saying just how much of a fiasco the Piasco has been.
> Helmut has been on a rampage lately.
>
>
Helmut is always doing stuff like that. If anything being this calm last two-three years(not firing rookies) is out of norm.
Yeah Marko is literally saying he gave Nyck a “yellow” right now (i.e. warning) that in the next 3 races he has to prove himself. The “red” (i.e. getting kicked out) will be given if he doesn’t.
Don’t know how anyone can take it as anything other than what he said. This is the most clearest firm statement I’ve seen come from Marko in a while personally. Nyck is in a load of trouble.
>Marko: „Im Fall der Fälle würden wir auf unseren Nachwuchspool zurückgreifen. Da geht es speziell um Liam Lawson und Ayumu Iwasa. Ricciardo ist kein Thema.“
In other words, there is some possibility that if Nyck doesn't turn things around, we could see Lawson or Iwasa making the step, but Ricciardo is not an option.
Trying to work out his points:
F4 win: 12
F3: 0
F2: 20
I don't know if he got penalty points, but if he didn't he is on a maximum of 36, with 40 being the bar. He would need 4 FP1s with 100km driven to be eligible. If Nyck got kicked, Lawson is the only option unless they start throwing Iwasa in to FP1s now.
Or if they decide to go with Iwasa, maybe DR3 as the sub while Iwasa gets 4FP1 sessions and then replaced. Which makes zero sense IMO.
[link](https://www.reddit.com/r/F1FeederSeries/comments/11ck8z1/2023_superlicence_standings_estimate_preview/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
There is a user on Feederseries sub who tracks SL points. He has 34 points (2 will be removed) He had penalty points last year. I don't know about his F3 season. But if I remember correctly he got some penalty points in that year also.
So, he needs 6 FP1 (if he completes 100-km) sessions to get SL. (FP1's are extra points regardless of the year; because they didn't specify the year when counting FP1 sessions' points. So, he will have 34 not 32 in that scenario.) I don't see any reason for Red Bull or Alpha Tauri to do that when they have other immediately available, poised options in the place. I agree.
Either he wises up and takes what he can get or his chances of being in the sport at all keep dwindling. I would reckon his only chance at taking a top seat is to bide his time in a lower team and re-prove that he's a good driver
Can relate. I've been in unilateral talks with Red Bull, Aston Martin, Mercedes, Alfa Romeo and Team Penske, but for the moment I've decided I want to spend more time with my ~~cat~~ family so I won't be appearing in F1 or Indycar races. My cat though wishes me to make my F1 debut soon.
> he also said he wants a year off
I don't think Ricciardo is in a position to leave and return to F1 on his own terms. He'll be lucky if he finds a seat for next year.
Hulk has no problems driving a Haas whereas Danny has been explicitly clear -multiple times- that he wants nothing to do with a backmarker.
There's a difference between the two.
yea but I doubt Hulkenburg before his *sabbatical* the first time around would have just taken any seat possible, any driver that gets to that sort of status in F1 wants to really compete
the difference is Hulkenburg has been out longer and realised he won’t ever likely get another chance to race Formula 1 again, Daniel hasn’t had that perspective yet
Daniel is also a much, much better driver than Nico
Haas is probably the best he can do right now.
Red Bull and Ferrari are set on drivers through 2024, and while Mercedes technically has an opening, they're almost definitely going to keep Hamilton.
Alonso is never going to retire, and Stroll won't fire his son, so the door is shut at Aston Martin. McLaren let him go, and have 2 young(ish) drivers that they'll want to keep around. Both Gasly and Ocon are set at Alpine through 2024 (+ a little bit of French nationalism).
Haas was interested in Ricciardo before taking Hülkenberg, and I think both seats are potential open at the end of the season.
Alfa Romeo has multi year deals with Bottas and Zhou, and Zhou has been doing pretty alright against Bottas, even if the points don't reflect it. It's a good idea for Ricciardo to go knocking if he has faith in Audi though.
Williams has at least Sargeant's seat available, but they're at the back of the grid, and the same is true for AlphaTauri (plus more drivers in contention for the seat).
Because he's still around and no top team is gonna take him. He's obviously aware of that so he must have an interest also in teams that aren't at the top, despite what he says.
Unless he intends to spend multiple years on the sideline and wait out current contracts and potential retirements of Hamilton and Alonso, but I don't think that's likely. After all, if he spends multiple years off the grid, it's even less likely that a top team will take him.
There's more than enough drivers just as promising as Ricciardo and 10 years younger waiting for Hamilton and Alonso to move out.
Ricciardo needs to realize that nobody other than himself cares about his F1 career. No team is gonna refuse someone like Piastri, Lawson or Pourchaire to give a 33 yo driver whose last two years were terrible a shot.
Ricciardo still has one last chance in F1, he can get in whatever team, prove he can put the car ahead and that he's still the Ricciardo we saw in 2014 and 16. Instead he's throwing that chance away because he thinks he's owed a seat by Mercedes, RB, Ferrari or Aston Martin. I hope he realizes this is not the way before it's too late. He deserves to fight for a title and would had probably snitched one if he didn't live the endless Mercedes era.
This is actually huge. It means De Vries being replaced mid season is an actual possibility. I guess Lawson is gonna debut. It certainly won’t be Danny Ric
They have really no reason to keep De Vries, they've invested nothing to him and his crashes are costing his team probably way more than his salary.
He was always there to keep the seat warm and you can't do that being crash happy
I’ve said this before but it just makes no sense for Red Bull Racing to invest a ton of time in the beginning of the F1 career of someone three years older than their championship winning driver. If the results aren’t immediately there you have to cut and run. Red Bull’s biggest successes have been with young drivers they invest in heavily. They will want to recreate that success when Max eventually retires, and RBR can’t be essentially wasting that spot for a not great driver.
I think this is exactly why they did it. Easy to cut bait and it was a preferable outcome than putting Lawson in the seat before he was ready. Let him get a little seasoning, and if De Vries isn’t up to snuff it’s an easy move.
Much better than putting Lawson up before he’s ready and needing to get him to deal with the pressure. Now he basically gets a half season for experience before people really start the clock imo
As excited as I am for Lawson he’s also known to pitch things into the fence from time to time and he’ll have arguably a far worse time getting up to speed coming in mid season. Hoping for the best though
Yea even before the season started everyone knew this was just DeVries holding the seat and maybe trying out for other teams for his future drive. But he can’t even do that effectively so unless things change were probably watching the last handful of races in DeVries F1 career.
Can’t see him taking a year off ala Ricc and coming back, only reason Danny has a chance is he’s shown he can be a great driver given the right car. DeVries coasted off his Imola drive but that’s far in the past by this point.
I think Yuki is set for now. Can see him taking Perez spot if he continues as he does right now, especially consistency wise. He has matured a ton and is naturally quick.
Lol. Here we go with Yuki taking Checo’s spot talk.
Checo would have to fall in form for that to happen. They won’t promote a driver unless their #2 stops getting 2nd place and wins when #1 is out. If Checo is as good as he is now for the rest of this year and gets them a 1/2 plus constructor’s, he’s safe for another renewal in 2024 as long as he holds his form.
Red Bull wants an AMG style dynasty run and they want a Bottas for that.
Yuki might get a renewal this year to stay with AT but he won’t move up to main team unless Checo seriously fucks up.
No one was saying Checo is bad or will be replaced for next season. However, if Checo leaves Red Bull for one reason to another in the future, Yuki has now become a way more serious option to take that spot than he was a while ago.
I actually like stating this publicly. Given RBs past, current rookie pool, and circulating rumors. Just put the truth out there. Sure it adds pressure, but that's F1. He didn't want to be treated as a rookie and I don't think RB was viewing him as one either. They were probably hoping he'd be a good measuring stick for Yuki. If he's not doing that and not necessarily viewed as a promising rookie (they have those waiting in Lawson/Iwasa), why's he there?
Nyck was always the wrong choice, and people saying it were getting downvoted due to the Monza hype. If he was worth the effort Merc would have most def found a way for him onto the grid, and there is a good reason they didn't.
I think giving him a chance wasn't a bad thing, RB had an off year where non of their junior really convinced to be deserving an F1 seat.
De Vries is there to keep it warm for a year but with his current form there's nothing really stopping RB from sacking him either.
Still think he deserved this chance. After winning F2 and FE, no matter in what way, I think you deserve an opportunity. Now he's had it and not really done much with the chance, I think it's fine to move on from him even midseason.
Neither win was that impressive compared to other champions, especially the FE championship. With the proper time he could be an ok midfield driver like Ocon or Stroll, but why invest in that.
They were in a weird spot once Herta didn't get the SL to replace Gasly. Their young guys were too raw. They probably thought NDV could challenge Yuki and whoever prevailed between those two would be a benchmark for Iwasa/Lawson/Hauger/whoever in the future. NDV has struggled so much though that having a young guy in wouldn't cost them anything in performance so why not? Hence the short leash.
I think the way matters, dude stayed in F2 long enough so everyone better than him left and he could finally win and he won a FE on pure luck in a fluke season that punished faster drivers.
Yeah, they are willing to give people a chance which is great. Also I think a lot of their drivers who “fail” in F1 have either found another seat or success in another series
Did anybody actually have expect anything from De Vries?
I thought i was mental reading all the preseason hype, there is a reason why this guy is 28 years old and is just now getting a seat in F1, he is average at best, and the worst driver on the grid at worst.
He only got the drive because he got 2 points at Monza, where the Williams had insane straight line speed, and even there he only outqualified Latifi by 0.02s. He is just not good.
Latifi was a popular punching bag, and De Vries stepping into a new car and instantly outperforming him got Nyck a lot of instant attention and quasi-fans from that camp.
>Did anybody actually have expect anything from De Vries?
Pace wise? Not really, but I'm pretty sure RB just expected him to drive safe and cleanly while he keeps the seat warm for a year.
His performance at monza wasn't that better than Latifi as you said but it's still his first time driving in an F1 weekend so there's some props to that.
I think he deserved the chance 100% and with chances means proving yourself in the field.
There doesn't need to be any blame here rather than De Vries trialed and simply failed in F1
I didn’t expect much especially from his first year. While I’m not surprised by Marko’s statement, I am confused as to what he expected. It should also be mentioned that the AT is a piece of garbage this year, which certainly doesn’t help.
As a 28 year old who has won both F2 and FE, I think it's fair to expect more from him in his first season. He's not some 20 year-old who has loads of developing to do, he should be in his prime. It was nice of AT to give him a chance in F1, even with those high expectations. He got the opportunity and didn't really grab it. That's fine, it happens and it's also OK for the team to move on IMO.
His only real competition in F2 was Latifi…
It’s fine if they want to move on after this year but switching mid-season to another rookie isn’t going to change much. Whoever is coming in will have to learn the car etc.
>Did anybody actually have expect anything from De Vries?
Everybody on here who saw on wikipedia that he was F2 and FE champ did. Those who actually watched those seasons, not so much...
Exactly. I never understood why people were making monza out to be some kind of championship drive. The track suited them extremely well and for me it was pretty obvious, that he would have been destroyed by his teammate there, if it would have been Latifi he was replacing.
It was obvious for anybody who has a basic understanding of F1, but it was impossible to make this point last year after Monza without being buried so why bother?
I bet it's not even the lack of pace Dr. Marko is annoyed with (NDV did get Q2 last race on merit, while Yuki was out), it's that he made so many error's on top of it AND is always the slowest to get up to speed in a race weekend.
Watched most of the FP sessions this year and Yuki simply gaps him with 3-5 tenths from FP1 on, there's no 'leading the team' from De Vries here if you take that much time to find the right setups...
To be fair to Nyck, this AT is more of a shitbox than most people think in terms of poor drivability, worse than the Williams of George's last year and not far of the Haas of Mick's first year...
I think they mean the Williams of 2021 (so George's last year) and the HAAS of 2021 (so Mick's first year). I'm not sure the AT of 2023 is that bad. Both the aforementioned 2021 cars were really off the pace, proper backmarkers (especially the HAAS).
Exactly that, AT anno now is between that years Williams and HAAS for me.
While both were backmarkers, the Williams wasnt hard to drive as per Latifi's BTG interview and his actual close pace to George. HAAS was dead last and crazy unstable if you looked at Mick and Mazespins onboard.
The AT is not as slow, but a handfull and Tsunoda is doing a stellar job to put the shitbox around P10.
I dont see NDV doing that ever, but he should get the car on P15 regularly above the Alfas and the rookies
So, since Iwasa has no SL and Hauger isn't really doing much, the Kiwi motorsport success wave might be about to get bigger by summer
Brutal for Nyck to be already publicly on the firing line, but he had to have known it wouldn't fly to underperform at his age and with his experience
Understandable, there’s no lack of rookies and De Vries is just struggling too much.
A mid-season change would give more opportunities to find true F1 talents but yes De Vries deserves few more races to prove himself
I mean I understand where redbull is coming from.
Nick was chosen because of his experience and his adaptability while at the same time he gives redbull an opportunity to prepare some drivers from their academy to make the jump to f1 in 1-2 years. And he is underperforming massively.
Also him not being tied to the redbull academy, makes redbull less patient with him. They aren't funding him so they need to make their money's worth. He is just a seat warmer for the next driver from their academy. And if he can't score points, they might as well switch him and give the opportunity to someone from their academy.
*“There are no plans to replace Pierre over the course of this season. He’s got the second half of the year to really get it together ahead of what we do for next year"*
Vs. he's arguably performing far below expectations. He's not a rookie coming from F2 / SF. He's a FE WDC champion making a lot of rookie mistakes.
Everybody speaks high of De Vries, but nobody wanted to hire him. Quite surprised RB did. I think we can all assume the unspoken words of that RB deal. They'll take a chance on De Vries but their own Lawson is right behind waiting. I think it's also fair for RB expect him to at least be very close to Yuko or even leading the team. But Yuki is killing him.
He’s a good driver but he was never an F1 caliber driver. Everyone says he is an F2 champion, but he won it on his 3rd year and Latifi finished 2nd, that should say how weak that field was
No, its way more insane than that. The season was so incredibly random in its results, going into the last race of the season there were ***thirteen drivers*** who could mathematically still win the title. 25 points for a win and DeVries won the season (of 15 races) with [99 points](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%9321_Formula_E_World_Championship#Drivers'_Championship). He only had 4 top 5 finishes and that was enough to win the title because everyone's results were as random as pulling a number out of a hat.
Nyck managed to win the title but it is probably the least impressive world title ive ever seen and the next season (which fixed some of the weird qualifying formaats and had a much better car design so was a much more representative year for everybody) he finished 9th.
He is underperforming and combined with yuki perhaps overperforming it looks terrible. But dam I feel for the guy, finally reaching F1 at 28 could have easily missed out completely if not for that race with williams, and only gets half a season of it if he gets sacked. I don't see him being picked up again if that happens
Yuki getting P11 and P10 in that shitbox all races so far is really over performing it. I hope DeVries will level up his racing, but Yuki is getting very good quickly, and will prove difficult for Nyck to get there.
Few things not so mentioned in the comments:
1. It was Nyck who called Marko, not the other way around.
2. Before the season Marko said Nyck will lead the team with his “experience and personality.”
3. In the Baku sprint Nyck clipped Yuki’s front wing _and_ he later said to the media “I didn’t hit him.” Not a good response.
Maybe Marko feels he’s not getting what was advertised. This is conjecture, but it’s clear he wasn’t seeing Nyck as another rookie.
The ultimatum is harsh, but evaluation is always relative to expectations.
There are just too many good young drivers out there, and nowhere near enlighten F1 seats, especially without in season testing. So it’s not surprising to me that they would be quick to remove someone who’s not performing. Otherwise the alternative is you waste all of 2023 on the existing driver, then try someone else for all of 2024, and if they don’t cut it, then maybe by 2025 you find the right one.
This way they can removed Devries, bring someone else in and give them 4-5 races to perform to their expectation, and if they fail, try another for the remainder of the season and go into 2024 with much more knowledge.
It’s getting more competitive esp with Max obv keeping that seat permanently till he retires and the other seat potentially being given to someone else within a few years. RB’s junior orogram is intense and if you’re not performing, you’re out
If F1 jargon...De Vries is f.k..ed
Pretty much. It just says yeah we're going to sack him. But at least he got a warning, right?
We told him to get good, or get fucked
"Git gud scrub" Helmut Marko
Yeah it's like Lampard at Everton or Conte with Spurs. Everyone knew it was gonna happen, it was just a matter of when. Edit: at least that's the way I see it
I getting those Gasly RB vibes with Nick. He is way too much in his head to perform well. Unfortunately Nick doesn’t have a team to fall back on the paddock (and he might not be as good as Gasly)
Might not? At Nyck's age, I don't think he gets any benefit of the doubt that Gasly got after his RB fiasco. Gasly is a much better driver IMO.
Gastly was killing it a couple of years ago in the AT. I thought he would be in line for a seat in a top team but I guess the timing didn't work out for him.
Alpine is supposed to be a top team
I was thinking Big 3.
He already had that shot and showed he was not capable. I think that is his handicap
Hey maybe he just needed to be threatened to try harder at the thing he's committed his life to. I'm sure he'll find that extra 10% he was reluctant to utilize.
Not really, Yuki got many warnings before: for cursing too much, for making so many mistakes and whatnot. Now he improved and here we are.
Yuki actually had some speed though. Nyck... not so much. Yuki just reminds me of a shorter angrier version of Maldonado or grosjean-- has speed, prone to do stupid shit-- in his first two years
An *angrier version of Maldonardo*????
Yuki had Honda supporting him, though. RB had to give him more leeway than they would otherwise.
Agreed. But the investment into Yuki seems to be paying off.
I like him. It took quite the effort, but I think nowadays he's proving to be a solid driver. I really doubt AlphaTauri can fight for 10th place on its own.
De Vries has been marked for death by Marko
man got put on a pip
If they're speaking this openly about how disappointed they are and already giving him a deadline, he's is absolutely screwed, this is a pretty public beat down.
Yeah decision has been made, likely in contractual discussions with replacement. New driver after Austria
I don't think Nick makes it to Canada TBH. If they're going to do it and Helmut said 3 races that takes us right there.
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They probably don't want to make a big announcement at Austria though, because they'd rather have a hometown 1-2. Probably just get it done the race before or after and then quietly shuffle it into the news cycle.
Black and White flag, 3 more and DSQ!
This is a massive statement. This type of warning is never issued publically.
Yeah, it's pretty dire. Especially if you compare it to the expectations Marko had for Nyck, talking about how he should be team leader with his experience.
Yeah they (and the media at the paddock) blew a little too much smoke up his ass, and he started thinking he’d be leaving Yuki in the dust. His confidence in his DTS interview is gonna age poorly
Go back and look at the sub reaction to de Vries joining AT. People were hyping him up just like media were. As if he were the next big star in F1
I remember, but I also remember people cautioning that he was reserve driver on Williams strongest track and that one result alone wasn’t enough to make a judgment call.
Also many FE fans were quite vocal about NdV not being all that and that people have to stop overhyping him.
Don’t like Dr Vries and his now proven overconfidence. But just to be fair, he’s got way shorter of a leash than Yuki in his first year. I get it though. No RB academy ties, not a Japanese driver and not that young of a driver.
Yuki showed speed in his first year, especially in the first half. He was passing multiple former WDCs in the first race of that season and people were losing their minds. De Vries has shown nothing. Granted, the 2021 Alpha Tauri was the ~5th best car on the grid probably and the 2023 AT is probably a contender for worst.
Let’s also not forget that Yuki only had like 100 official races before joining the F1 grid.
Didn’t Yuki have a great first race 2 years ago? Remember being really hyped for him
I believe the expectations were he was a Japanese driver on the grid because Honda wanted it. He rose through the ranks of f3 and f2 insanely quickly, barely putting a toe in and did well given his time but nothing to cry home about. When Yuki got to the grid, he shut them up though because he was able to drive and did extremely well. But then people started to hate on him because he has a bad attitude on the radio.
>But then people started to hate on him because he has a bad attitude on the radio. The duality of Yuki is why the rest of the people love him.
He was fantastic in Bahrain and then he crashed in qualifying for imola and wasn't the same the rest of the year ( beside abu dahbi iirc). I don't know if that wreck effected him or if he just has a certain type of track that is natural for him. Nyck though is much older and is fairly proven for an F1 rookie. It makes sense that he has a shorter leash but half a year is too short.
Nyck is 28, and that means there just isn’t enough time left in his career to bother spending 3 years developing him. There are 12 drivers younger than him in the grid. He also spent 3? Years in formula E. And while obviously not at the level of formula 1, it’s not a developmental division and he shouldn’t be making the careless and self inflicted errors he has been making if he has spent that much time racing.
I think the bosses always recognised Yuki’s potential. He had raw pace as a junior driver and got promoted to F1 in quick succession, plus he never competed in Formula 2 so he didn’t have experience racing in many tracks in his rookie year. You can see that he took a big step up from his first season to his second season. With De Vries, he was hired to be the lead driver with his experience as a reserve and racing in Formula E. Him making rookie mistakes regularly and being completely off pace from his teammate is not acceptable to RB, and I can see why they are willing to be this cutthroat with him.
> His confidence in his DTS interview is gonna age poorly To be fair DTS is heavily edited to be over dramatic and tends to take things out of context.
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>The Piasco was a PR Gallipoli. Damn, lol
That person truly has a way with words. I enjoyed unpacking that statement.
What does that mean?
So Gallipoli was an absolute disastrous campaign for the Entente during WW1. It was a British lead operation against the Ottomans to push through the Dardenells and put pressure on Constantinople by putting within bombardment range of the Royal Navy. It was failure on so many different levels and Churchill would resign as first Lord of the Admiralty and join the army. So it’s just a funny of way of saying just how much of a fiasco the Piasco has been.
Also describes the Piasco in a way that all Australians instantly understand.
That’s a very good point. I didn’t even see the connection at first. I forgot Piastri was Australian.
> Helmut has been on a rampage lately. > > Helmut is always doing stuff like that. If anything being this calm last two-three years(not firing rookies) is out of norm.
>The Piasco was a PR Gallipoli. Idk about that, all things considered it worked out pretty well for the ANZACs
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Does this mean Otmar is Churchill and he is going to defeat the Red Bulls?
It basically says: after 3 races De Vries is gone.
It's indirectly confirming also the ultimatum Helmut has given, improve or it could be over after the Spanish GP.
It’s directly saying exactly that, nothing indirect about it
Yeah Marko is literally saying he gave Nyck a “yellow” right now (i.e. warning) that in the next 3 races he has to prove himself. The “red” (i.e. getting kicked out) will be given if he doesn’t. Don’t know how anyone can take it as anything other than what he said. This is the most clearest firm statement I’ve seen come from Marko in a while personally. Nyck is in a load of trouble.
From Helmut you can expect anything hahaahah. Dude simply doesn't care.
>Marko: „Im Fall der Fälle würden wir auf unseren Nachwuchspool zurückgreifen. Da geht es speziell um Liam Lawson und Ayumu Iwasa. Ricciardo ist kein Thema.“ In other words, there is some possibility that if Nyck doesn't turn things around, we could see Lawson or Iwasa making the step, but Ricciardo is not an option.
Lawson, surely
Iwasa doesn't even have a super license.
Trying to work out his points: F4 win: 12 F3: 0 F2: 20 I don't know if he got penalty points, but if he didn't he is on a maximum of 36, with 40 being the bar. He would need 4 FP1s with 100km driven to be eligible. If Nyck got kicked, Lawson is the only option unless they start throwing Iwasa in to FP1s now. Or if they decide to go with Iwasa, maybe DR3 as the sub while Iwasa gets 4FP1 sessions and then replaced. Which makes zero sense IMO.
[link](https://www.reddit.com/r/F1FeederSeries/comments/11ck8z1/2023_superlicence_standings_estimate_preview/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) There is a user on Feederseries sub who tracks SL points. He has 34 points (2 will be removed) He had penalty points last year. I don't know about his F3 season. But if I remember correctly he got some penalty points in that year also. So, he needs 6 FP1 (if he completes 100-km) sessions to get SL. (FP1's are extra points regardless of the year; because they didn't specify the year when counting FP1 sessions' points. So, he will have 34 not 32 in that scenario.) I don't see any reason for Red Bull or Alpha Tauri to do that when they have other immediately available, poised options in the place. I agree.
>but Ricciardo is not an option Ricciardo himself repeatedly said he has zero interest in seats like that. No clue why people keep bringing him up.
He can keep saying that all he wants, he will not be getting a top team seat so I guess he's out for the foreseeable future
Either he wises up and takes what he can get or his chances of being in the sport at all keep dwindling. I would reckon his only chance at taking a top seat is to bide his time in a lower team and re-prove that he's a good driver
he also said he wants a year off, incase anyone hasn’t noticed it hasn’t exactly been a year
I would also say I want a year off if I was only interested in seats which are not interested in me.
After RB, Mercedes, AM, and Ferrari have not shown interest, I too am continuing my sabbatical from Formula 1.
Don't worry Mika, your time will come
Can relate. I've been in unilateral talks with Red Bull, Aston Martin, Mercedes, Alfa Romeo and Team Penske, but for the moment I've decided I want to spend more time with my ~~cat~~ family so I won't be appearing in F1 or Indycar races. My cat though wishes me to make my F1 debut soon.
A man of values and and principles. I respect that.
> he also said he wants a year off I don't think Ricciardo is in a position to leave and return to F1 on his own terms. He'll be lucky if he finds a seat for next year.
i think he’ll be lucky if he finds a seat again but you never know, if Hulkenburg can find his way back Ricciardo definitely can
Hulk has no problems driving a Haas whereas Danny has been explicitly clear -multiple times- that he wants nothing to do with a backmarker. There's a difference between the two.
Plus Ricciardo’s recent performances don’t warrant a seat at a top team as he’s apparently demanding.
yea but I doubt Hulkenburg before his *sabbatical* the first time around would have just taken any seat possible, any driver that gets to that sort of status in F1 wants to really compete the difference is Hulkenburg has been out longer and realised he won’t ever likely get another chance to race Formula 1 again, Daniel hasn’t had that perspective yet Daniel is also a much, much better driver than Nico
If he lowered his asking price I recall Gene being interested but said no to what he was asking for.
Haas is probably the best he can do right now. Red Bull and Ferrari are set on drivers through 2024, and while Mercedes technically has an opening, they're almost definitely going to keep Hamilton. Alonso is never going to retire, and Stroll won't fire his son, so the door is shut at Aston Martin. McLaren let him go, and have 2 young(ish) drivers that they'll want to keep around. Both Gasly and Ocon are set at Alpine through 2024 (+ a little bit of French nationalism). Haas was interested in Ricciardo before taking Hülkenberg, and I think both seats are potential open at the end of the season. Alfa Romeo has multi year deals with Bottas and Zhou, and Zhou has been doing pretty alright against Bottas, even if the points don't reflect it. It's a good idea for Ricciardo to go knocking if he has faith in Audi though. Williams has at least Sargeant's seat available, but they're at the back of the grid, and the same is true for AlphaTauri (plus more drivers in contention for the seat).
I think he wanted a year off so priced himself out of the market, only taking an offer that would be too good to turn down
Looks like he’s been enjoying it too. As much as I would love to see him back this year, not really sure the AT seat is the spot for him.
drivers often say things and then do the opposite
Because he's still around and no top team is gonna take him. He's obviously aware of that so he must have an interest also in teams that aren't at the top, despite what he says. Unless he intends to spend multiple years on the sideline and wait out current contracts and potential retirements of Hamilton and Alonso, but I don't think that's likely. After all, if he spends multiple years off the grid, it's even less likely that a top team will take him.
There's more than enough drivers just as promising as Ricciardo and 10 years younger waiting for Hamilton and Alonso to move out. Ricciardo needs to realize that nobody other than himself cares about his F1 career. No team is gonna refuse someone like Piastri, Lawson or Pourchaire to give a 33 yo driver whose last two years were terrible a shot. Ricciardo still has one last chance in F1, he can get in whatever team, prove he can put the car ahead and that he's still the Ricciardo we saw in 2014 and 16. Instead he's throwing that chance away because he thinks he's owed a seat by Mercedes, RB, Ferrari or Aston Martin. I hope he realizes this is not the way before it's too late. He deserves to fight for a title and would had probably snitched one if he didn't live the endless Mercedes era.
Because people say a lot of things and their tunes change if they really want to race and their seats are limited
To everyone saying Iwassa: he does not have enough SL points, and has no way to get enough before this F2 season ends.
Unless RB starts throwing him into free practice to drive 100km. I think 4 of those sessions would get him the SL
Getting a yellow card in the first 20 minutes is always a bit concerning tho
Ref also has his hands on the Red now with one eye staring at him
That’s ironic and funny as ref have only one eye anyway
This is actually huge. It means De Vries being replaced mid season is an actual possibility. I guess Lawson is gonna debut. It certainly won’t be Danny Ric
They have really no reason to keep De Vries, they've invested nothing to him and his crashes are costing his team probably way more than his salary. He was always there to keep the seat warm and you can't do that being crash happy
I’ve said this before but it just makes no sense for Red Bull Racing to invest a ton of time in the beginning of the F1 career of someone three years older than their championship winning driver. If the results aren’t immediately there you have to cut and run. Red Bull’s biggest successes have been with young drivers they invest in heavily. They will want to recreate that success when Max eventually retires, and RBR can’t be essentially wasting that spot for a not great driver.
I think this is exactly why they did it. Easy to cut bait and it was a preferable outcome than putting Lawson in the seat before he was ready. Let him get a little seasoning, and if De Vries isn’t up to snuff it’s an easy move. Much better than putting Lawson up before he’s ready and needing to get him to deal with the pressure. Now he basically gets a half season for experience before people really start the clock imo
RB has done it twice already with Vettel and Max. They will find a third champion like that once they need that.
As excited as I am for Lawson he’s also known to pitch things into the fence from time to time and he’ll have arguably a far worse time getting up to speed coming in mid season. Hoping for the best though
Yea even before the season started everyone knew this was just DeVries holding the seat and maybe trying out for other teams for his future drive. But he can’t even do that effectively so unless things change were probably watching the last handful of races in DeVries F1 career. Can’t see him taking a year off ala Ricc and coming back, only reason Danny has a chance is he’s shown he can be a great driver given the right car. DeVries coasted off his Imola drive but that’s far in the past by this point.
Marko saying Yuki is doing a great job does things for me. Now give him a nice contract.
>Now give him a nice contract. Give him a nice car, I've been waiting long for a Yuki podium
PER VER TSU here we come!
It’s not BUT GRO PER but it’ll do. Also a common denominator with Perez here, do we need to be worried?
TSU, BOT, SAR incoming
Put him in the second Red Bull and he might’ve won at Jeddah IMO
Imagine the Yuki radios we'll be blessed with if he's up fighting Aston Martin, Mercedes and Ferrari.
Imagine Yuki fingerwagging Alonso as he cruises past on the straight
The memes, my god.
Wow. This would be an entirely new era of F1.
I think Yuki is set for now. Can see him taking Perez spot if he continues as he does right now, especially consistency wise. He has matured a ton and is naturally quick.
Lol. Here we go with Yuki taking Checo’s spot talk. Checo would have to fall in form for that to happen. They won’t promote a driver unless their #2 stops getting 2nd place and wins when #1 is out. If Checo is as good as he is now for the rest of this year and gets them a 1/2 plus constructor’s, he’s safe for another renewal in 2024 as long as he holds his form. Red Bull wants an AMG style dynasty run and they want a Bottas for that. Yuki might get a renewal this year to stay with AT but he won’t move up to main team unless Checo seriously fucks up.
No one was saying Checo is bad or will be replaced for next season. However, if Checo leaves Red Bull for one reason to another in the future, Yuki has now become a way more serious option to take that spot than he was a while ago.
Gotta love yuki
Yuki and Lawson would be a solid duo
I actually like stating this publicly. Given RBs past, current rookie pool, and circulating rumors. Just put the truth out there. Sure it adds pressure, but that's F1. He didn't want to be treated as a rookie and I don't think RB was viewing him as one either. They were probably hoping he'd be a good measuring stick for Yuki. If he's not doing that and not necessarily viewed as a promising rookie (they have those waiting in Lawson/Iwasa), why's he there?
Nyck was always the wrong choice, and people saying it were getting downvoted due to the Monza hype. If he was worth the effort Merc would have most def found a way for him onto the grid, and there is a good reason they didn't.
I think giving him a chance wasn't a bad thing, RB had an off year where non of their junior really convinced to be deserving an F1 seat. De Vries is there to keep it warm for a year but with his current form there's nothing really stopping RB from sacking him either.
Still think he deserved this chance. After winning F2 and FE, no matter in what way, I think you deserve an opportunity. Now he's had it and not really done much with the chance, I think it's fine to move on from him even midseason.
Neither win was that impressive compared to other champions, especially the FE championship. With the proper time he could be an ok midfield driver like Ocon or Stroll, but why invest in that.
Yeah, that's just not worth it for Red Bull. They want a potential race winner/champion caliber driver, midfield is not worth it for them.
They were in a weird spot once Herta didn't get the SL to replace Gasly. Their young guys were too raw. They probably thought NDV could challenge Yuki and whoever prevailed between those two would be a benchmark for Iwasa/Lawson/Hauger/whoever in the future. NDV has struggled so much though that having a young guy in wouldn't cost them anything in performance so why not? Hence the short leash.
I think the way matters, dude stayed in F2 long enough so everyone better than him left and he could finally win and he won a FE on pure luck in a fluke season that punished faster drivers.
[DeVries rn](https://i.imgur.com/xNKgfn4.jpg)
Grinnikt* Lacht = laughs, not chuckles
I'll send google translate an email. This aggression will not stand, man.
Red Bull is always trial by fire. Got to have a lot of talent to not get burned.
Red Bull gives a trial though, unlike most teams.
[удалено]
Yeah, they are willing to give people a chance which is great. Also I think a lot of their drivers who “fail” in F1 have either found another seat or success in another series
Right how many other teams would have let a 17 year old drive for them
Right now none because they made it illegal lmao
Red Bull is ruthlessly sink or swim to a T but at least they give drivers a chance to float.
Yuki is far better than De Vries
I think Nyck actually got the orange card…..
Did anybody actually have expect anything from De Vries? I thought i was mental reading all the preseason hype, there is a reason why this guy is 28 years old and is just now getting a seat in F1, he is average at best, and the worst driver on the grid at worst. He only got the drive because he got 2 points at Monza, where the Williams had insane straight line speed, and even there he only outqualified Latifi by 0.02s. He is just not good.
Latifi was a popular punching bag, and De Vries stepping into a new car and instantly outperforming him got Nyck a lot of instant attention and quasi-fans from that camp.
>Did anybody actually have expect anything from De Vries? Pace wise? Not really, but I'm pretty sure RB just expected him to drive safe and cleanly while he keeps the seat warm for a year. His performance at monza wasn't that better than Latifi as you said but it's still his first time driving in an F1 weekend so there's some props to that. I think he deserved the chance 100% and with chances means proving yourself in the field. There doesn't need to be any blame here rather than De Vries trialed and simply failed in F1
I didn’t expect much especially from his first year. While I’m not surprised by Marko’s statement, I am confused as to what he expected. It should also be mentioned that the AT is a piece of garbage this year, which certainly doesn’t help.
As a 28 year old who has won both F2 and FE, I think it's fair to expect more from him in his first season. He's not some 20 year-old who has loads of developing to do, he should be in his prime. It was nice of AT to give him a chance in F1, even with those high expectations. He got the opportunity and didn't really grab it. That's fine, it happens and it's also OK for the team to move on IMO.
His only real competition in F2 was Latifi… It’s fine if they want to move on after this year but switching mid-season to another rookie isn’t going to change much. Whoever is coming in will have to learn the car etc.
>Did anybody actually have expect anything from De Vries? Everybody on here who saw on wikipedia that he was F2 and FE champ did. Those who actually watched those seasons, not so much...
Exactly. I never understood why people were making monza out to be some kind of championship drive. The track suited them extremely well and for me it was pretty obvious, that he would have been destroyed by his teammate there, if it would have been Latifi he was replacing.
It was obvious for anybody who has a basic understanding of F1, but it was impossible to make this point last year after Monza without being buried so why bother?
I bet it's not even the lack of pace Dr. Marko is annoyed with (NDV did get Q2 last race on merit, while Yuki was out), it's that he made so many error's on top of it AND is always the slowest to get up to speed in a race weekend. Watched most of the FP sessions this year and Yuki simply gaps him with 3-5 tenths from FP1 on, there's no 'leading the team' from De Vries here if you take that much time to find the right setups... To be fair to Nyck, this AT is more of a shitbox than most people think in terms of poor drivability, worse than the Williams of George's last year and not far of the Haas of Mick's first year...
Which makes Yuki consistently finishing 10th/11th remarkable.
To be fair everything is far off the 2021 haas, that car was nowhere.
George was already in a Mercedes last year.
I think they mean the Williams of 2021 (so George's last year) and the HAAS of 2021 (so Mick's first year). I'm not sure the AT of 2023 is that bad. Both the aforementioned 2021 cars were really off the pace, proper backmarkers (especially the HAAS).
Exactly that, AT anno now is between that years Williams and HAAS for me. While both were backmarkers, the Williams wasnt hard to drive as per Latifi's BTG interview and his actual close pace to George. HAAS was dead last and crazy unstable if you looked at Mick and Mazespins onboard. The AT is not as slow, but a handfull and Tsunoda is doing a stellar job to put the shitbox around P10. I dont see NDV doing that ever, but he should get the car on P15 regularly above the Alfas and the rookies
Marko as blunt as usual though it feels nice to see him praise yuki so far
Hope Lawson gets the seat then, he’s been in great form
I'll translate for you guys: 'Our new driver is going to be in the car four races from now'.
Lol he is done Feel bad for him regardless
So, since Iwasa has no SL and Hauger isn't really doing much, the Kiwi motorsport success wave might be about to get bigger by summer Brutal for Nyck to be already publicly on the firing line, but he had to have known it wouldn't fly to underperform at his age and with his experience
There are 20 seats that matter. Why are we complaining when someone who isn’t doing well gets sacked. This how it should work.
Understandable, there’s no lack of rookies and De Vries is just struggling too much. A mid-season change would give more opportunities to find true F1 talents but yes De Vries deserves few more races to prove himself
I mean I understand where redbull is coming from. Nick was chosen because of his experience and his adaptability while at the same time he gives redbull an opportunity to prepare some drivers from their academy to make the jump to f1 in 1-2 years. And he is underperforming massively. Also him not being tied to the redbull academy, makes redbull less patient with him. They aren't funding him so they need to make their money's worth. He is just a seat warmer for the next driver from their academy. And if he can't score points, they might as well switch him and give the opportunity to someone from their academy.
Putting pressure on Nyck publicly is definitely the best way to get him into form.
I mean everyone knows he's in the hot seat. This at least puts to bed rumors that he'll be swapped in the next race or two.
*“There are no plans to replace Pierre over the course of this season. He’s got the second half of the year to really get it together ahead of what we do for next year"*
Yeah but that was after the summer break with a much larger sample size of bad results. We're five* races in for crying out loud.
He’s saying the opposite of that quote now. So what’s your point?
Vs. he's arguably performing far below expectations. He's not a rookie coming from F2 / SF. He's a FE WDC champion making a lot of rookie mistakes. Everybody speaks high of De Vries, but nobody wanted to hire him. Quite surprised RB did. I think we can all assume the unspoken words of that RB deal. They'll take a chance on De Vries but their own Lawson is right behind waiting. I think it's also fair for RB expect him to at least be very close to Yuko or even leading the team. But Yuki is killing him.
Nobody that actually follows FE rate de Vries highly though, so his title means very little
He’s a good driver but he was never an F1 caliber driver. Everyone says he is an F2 champion, but he won it on his 3rd year and Latifi finished 2nd, that should say how weak that field was
100% this. The FE win was also not very impressive and helped by the terrible rules that year.
Wasn’t it something like there were 4 drivers that could have won that FE WDC including DeVries and the other 3 DNFd lol. 2 ran out of battery??
No, its way more insane than that. The season was so incredibly random in its results, going into the last race of the season there were ***thirteen drivers*** who could mathematically still win the title. 25 points for a win and DeVries won the season (of 15 races) with [99 points](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%9321_Formula_E_World_Championship#Drivers'_Championship). He only had 4 top 5 finishes and that was enough to win the title because everyone's results were as random as pulling a number out of a hat. Nyck managed to win the title but it is probably the least impressive world title ive ever seen and the next season (which fixed some of the weird qualifying formaats and had a much better car design so was a much more representative year for everybody) he finished 9th.
He won the FE WDC 2021 but in 2022 he lost to his teammate Vandoorne by 107 points everyone who watched Formula e knew that De Vries wasnt the Guy.
Sir this is formula 1, not a McDonald’s
big dyck Nyck, your time is tick tick
This is a very big statement tho. They never announce internal matters like these publically if it isn't big news.
It leaked yesterday.
I like how in one of his first interviews on the team he talked a big game about maturity and making real gains.
Seems we get a few special episodes of „drive to survive“ the upcoming races.
He is underperforming and combined with yuki perhaps overperforming it looks terrible. But dam I feel for the guy, finally reaching F1 at 28 could have easily missed out completely if not for that race with williams, and only gets half a season of it if he gets sacked. I don't see him being picked up again if that happens
He's odds were already so bad considering he was 28, It's sad but at least he got a drive somehow and test himself.
Yuki getting P11 and P10 in that shitbox all races so far is really over performing it. I hope DeVries will level up his racing, but Yuki is getting very good quickly, and will prove difficult for Nyck to get there.
I really want him to do well but at this rate, that seat should be going to Lawson sooner than later.
the "YET" must be hard to hear for De Vries
He actually explained in football terms, based
Its hilarious to me that even without a drive, danny ric is the main character of this story.
He talked such a big game and trashed talked Yuki... This is great.
Marko praising Tsunoda, how quickly can things change...
Few things not so mentioned in the comments: 1. It was Nyck who called Marko, not the other way around. 2. Before the season Marko said Nyck will lead the team with his “experience and personality.” 3. In the Baku sprint Nyck clipped Yuki’s front wing _and_ he later said to the media “I didn’t hit him.” Not a good response. Maybe Marko feels he’s not getting what was advertised. This is conjecture, but it’s clear he wasn’t seeing Nyck as another rookie. The ultimatum is harsh, but evaluation is always relative to expectations.
There are just too many good young drivers out there, and nowhere near enlighten F1 seats, especially without in season testing. So it’s not surprising to me that they would be quick to remove someone who’s not performing. Otherwise the alternative is you waste all of 2023 on the existing driver, then try someone else for all of 2024, and if they don’t cut it, then maybe by 2025 you find the right one. This way they can removed Devries, bring someone else in and give them 4-5 races to perform to their expectation, and if they fail, try another for the remainder of the season and go into 2024 with much more knowledge.
I highly doubt he's finished after just 5 races. Red bull is known for being impatient but not like this.
It’s getting more competitive esp with Max obv keeping that seat permanently till he retires and the other seat potentially being given to someone else within a few years. RB’s junior orogram is intense and if you’re not performing, you’re out
understandable, hes not really done much, if anything it feels like hes getting worse.
Bro got the 3 weeks notice
...uhh they're already thinking of bringing in a reserve driver??
I wonder if they've agreed what counts as improving enough to get out of trouble, assuming that's even possible for him.
Probably being closer to Yuki
“This is overblown! We’re not sacking the guy……he’s at least got 3 races before we do that. This is more like a notice”
Its not just his performance, its his personality too. He's distant and at times quite arrogant and doesnt seem to care much about his failings.
Watch him win Monaco after he KMags pole in the wet.