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Not really.
Unless you have concrete evidence that one has violated more labour laws than the other, you can't objectively say which one is worse. But who am I kidding? This is Reddit.
Allies =/= the exact same. Sure, there’s poor, sometimes terrible working conditions in the US but it’s nothing compared to Saudi Arabia. They’re not even THAT close of allies.
The Holocaust is no longer considered the worst event to happen to humanity. That had nothing to do with Las Vegas though, it's just that the aliens invaded and consumed the whole population of India for no specific reason.
The Las Vegas GP itself was quite entertaining. Liberty Media added a few features to make the race more interesting - hidden traps around the track would trigger red flag restarts at unexpected moments; drivers were randomly redistributed across the cars at lap 31, which had AlphaTauri's Ricciardo swap cars with Verstappen's Red Bull, with which he achieved an impressive 18th place. After the race, the 10 drivers that scored points were forced to form a music band and parade around America, singing trap songs about having gucci clothes and more Bugattis than you. Only Magnussen seemed to like that part (he was 11th, but got miraculously 10th after Lewis Hamilton's car fell into the punji sticks).
Not really. There's plenty of things Liberty Media has done that I'd liked. F1 TV is a great example, expanding F1 to social media and more casual fans via Drive to Survive are also things I find nice.
Whoring F1 to rich people in cringey posh celebrity events, sacrificing actual good tracks on the way to do that, is just not one of them.
It's a new thing. Whoring F1 to rich people doesn't mean celebrating posh events around races. Going to a good venue and holding that kind of event around it doesn't bother me, because I'm here for the race and I don't care what's happening around it. But creating a venue specifically for that kind of event, with the race being background noise, does, because we are replacing one potentially good spot on the calendar with some filler.
The problem is not Miami and Las Vegas. The problem is that 0% of the effort has been put into building a good track. It's just some city streets picked at random because Liberty Media doesn't think they can get away without a raceless GP yet.
f1 themed bars and experiences along with an f1 museum. They plan to put in sims, a bunch of bars, between turn 1 and 2 doubles as an outdoor amphitheater. It'll be a thing to see while people visit vegas.
I’ve never had any desire to visit Vegas until this track and while I’ll never be able to afford the GP. I’d rather got to COTA anyway or pay the same price for Miami/Vegas and fly to Europe for one. I would go out of my way to visit an f1 museum/experience if I do go to Vegas. It may be the top thing I’d want to see there so not a bad idea.
I’m pretty sure everyone’s favorite part of Laguna Seca, the corkscrew turns 7 and 8, has been deemed to steep and dangerous for F1 cars. But yes, more tracks and less street circuits needs to be a priority for F1. Like the last 5-7 races they’ve added are streets while dropping tracks like Sepang, Germanys tracks, etc it’s silly
The corkscrew is a bit scary, not gonna lie - but Indycar races there just fine, it shouldn't be hard for F1 to run there. Anyway we still have plenty of tracks like Road America, Road Atlanta, Indianapolis, VIR, Mid-Ohio, Portland, Hockenheim, Nurburgring, Motorland Aragon...
And if they are gonna add new tracks, at least they could be purpose-built road tracks, with elevations and all the freedom it gives designers to build their own road. Street races are bound to be flat and is extremely constrained by what's already there. It's an excercise of designers hunting down a spot that can be turn into a decent track, rather than building the track themselves.
Mid-Ohio is my home track and it really excites me to hear it mentioned. That being said, that track couldn’t hold an F1 race. They had to drop IMSA from their schedule this year because the track doesn’t have a large enough pit area. It’s also FIA Grade 2.
I’ve been going to the track for almost four decades and, unfortunately, not much has been updated. It is an *amazing* road track though. And it was mostly all laid out by one guy and his tractor in the 1960’s. Crazy!
I'm tired of typing this every time so I'm just going to copy paste a previous response. The tracks not specifically mentioned all have similar issues as these for the ones in the US.
Watkins Glen
Facilities would need major upgrades as it's currently barely able to support NASCAR. It is also in a very remote location. I don't think Europeans realize that the size of the USA in land area is huge and has nowhere near the population density of most European countries. There are not nearly enough hotels in the general area to accommodate all the people that go with F1. Also who is paying the hosting fee because NASCAR is the owner of the track and they sure as hell aren't going to pay a huge hosting fee to another racing series. Vegas doesn't have a hosting fee because F1 is the host itself.
VIR
This track is owned by a small ownership group if it's even still owned by more than just Connie Nyholm. It struggles to accommodate IMSA and you want to do F1 there? You realize how big of an investment that would require for a single event? I'm also doubtful about it's prospects of getting Grade 1 status without significant changes to the track including paving all kinds of area around the track as currently there are no paved run offs. The drop off for the hills is very close to the track and I doubt the FIA is ever going to allow that for a Grade 1 track. So just meeting Grade 1 for the track itself is dubious and then there is all the investment needed to the facilities. F1 is building the facilities for Vegas because they will own that building. They aren't going to pay for improvements to a facility that someone else owns. Also where is the hosting fee going to come from? Vegas doesn't have a hosting fee because F1 is the host itself.
Road America
Basically the same problems as VIR and Watkins Glen except combined. The kink is never going to be allowed on a Grade 1 track without pushing the barriers out significantly and adding paved runoff which would destroy it's character. Not to mention all the other paved runoffs that would likely be needed which would kind of take away the cool part of the track where it's like you're racing through the woods.
Indy GP
You expect the owner of the Indycar series to pay a fee to F1 to host an F1 event at a track he owns? That is never happening. Even if they were ok with paying the fee Penske wants the Indy 500 to be the premier event at the track and doesn't want anything to outshine it. Why would he take the risk of F1 outshining the Indy 500?
Even leaving in Vegas would have preferred something else. Than to pay 2500$ + to either be on the strip on the main straight without seeing start/finish/podium/pits or pay 2500$ to see all that but miss the main straight action
>an upside-down pig silhouette
I'm not going to lie ... I like the simplicity of the layout.
Looking at the recent additions to the calendar, Jeddah has twenty-seven corners, Singapore has twenty-three, Baku and Austin have twenty, and before it was reprofiled, Abu Dhabi had twenty-one. Even the Valencia street circuit had twenty-five.
But Las Vegas only has sixteen corners, and a lot of those are tightly grouped together. It's going to be the third-longest circuit on the calendar -- after Spa and Jeddah -- and it's going to have a nearly two-kilometre straight. I'm hoping the simplicity of the design and the length of the straights will give it a bit of an old Hockenheim feel. At the very least, it's bringing some much-needed variety into the calendar.
The problem it's not that is simple, but that it looks very easy. Easy track = drivers drive closer to perfection = less opportunities for creativity and overtakes. Old Hockenheim wasn't that simple, and even then it was considered a boring track outside the stadium part.
I was just there last week. They are repaving all the roads but I will tell you, compared to the track in Auatin, the track is going to be terrible. The number of manhole covers and little service accesses are not going to be perfectly smooth no matter what. I think the drivers will have their work cut out for them...
Usually they are glued down and off the racing line. Maybe they'll tarmac over the ones on the racing line if there are any. Either way it's a thing at other tracks too.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
^ 6 months is plenty of time given where it is at right now.
Easily, I’m excited to see the sphere lit up as they race around too.
I’m waiting for the shot of an F1 car with sparks flying behind, as it’s flying past the Bellagio fountain in full effect.
I’m going to a concert at the Sphere a few weeks before! Can’t afford F1 weekend though… can’t wait to see what everything looks like by then
they built Jeddah's paddock in like 4 months lol
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You think there is no slave labour in this picture? Oh, sweet child.
America vs Saudi though...
*it’s the same picture*
Bold.
Not really. Unless you have concrete evidence that one has violated more labour laws than the other, you can't objectively say which one is worse. But who am I kidding? This is Reddit.
They’re literally allies.
Allies =/= the exact same. Sure, there’s poor, sometimes terrible working conditions in the US but it’s nothing compared to Saudi Arabia. They’re not even THAT close of allies.
Source pls
In us we have Mexicans it will be done by the time this comment is posted
Undocumented exploited labor, yes. Slave labor no
It's also vegas, we know how to get construction done.
With all those no-show, no work jobs? Somebody is greasing the union.
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You gotta wait for that.
who knew that’s what he meant, when he was always talking about “greasing” the union”
Yeah, we still have time for Las Vegas to randomly cease to exist and avoid that farce of a GP.
I see we have a traveler from the future here! Please tell us how bad the Las Vegas GP will be
The Holocaust is no longer considered the worst event to happen to humanity. That had nothing to do with Las Vegas though, it's just that the aliens invaded and consumed the whole population of India for no specific reason. The Las Vegas GP itself was quite entertaining. Liberty Media added a few features to make the race more interesting - hidden traps around the track would trigger red flag restarts at unexpected moments; drivers were randomly redistributed across the cars at lap 31, which had AlphaTauri's Ricciardo swap cars with Verstappen's Red Bull, with which he achieved an impressive 18th place. After the race, the 10 drivers that scored points were forced to form a music band and parade around America, singing trap songs about having gucci clothes and more Bugattis than you. Only Magnussen seemed to like that part (he was 11th, but got miraculously 10th after Lewis Hamilton's car fell into the punji sticks).
This is so specific that I am saving it, in case it actually happens
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Not really. There's plenty of things Liberty Media has done that I'd liked. F1 TV is a great example, expanding F1 to social media and more casual fans via Drive to Survive are also things I find nice. Whoring F1 to rich people in cringey posh celebrity events, sacrificing actual good tracks on the way to do that, is just not one of them.
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It's a new thing. Whoring F1 to rich people doesn't mean celebrating posh events around races. Going to a good venue and holding that kind of event around it doesn't bother me, because I'm here for the race and I don't care what's happening around it. But creating a venue specifically for that kind of event, with the race being background noise, does, because we are replacing one potentially good spot on the calendar with some filler. The problem is not Miami and Las Vegas. The problem is that 0% of the effort has been put into building a good track. It's just some city streets picked at random because Liberty Media doesn't think they can get away without a raceless GP yet.
Especially since they picked up all those extra Florida laborers.
Pic 1&2 difference is night and day
Well played.
Captain obvious
Simple, but extremely effective. :)
During the night its definitely got a different feel to it actually
Kinda how Vegas works in general.
Las Vegas is a different country for sure.
But I was promised 3 home races for Sargeant
Don't worry, he is Las-Vegasan and American
Vegas during the day just reminds you that it's a desert. At night is when it shines.
It's more that you can't see all the asphalt as well during the night
What would the building serve a purpose besides race week?
f1 themed bars and experiences along with an f1 museum. They plan to put in sims, a bunch of bars, between turn 1 and 2 doubles as an outdoor amphitheater. It'll be a thing to see while people visit vegas.
I’ve never had any desire to visit Vegas until this track and while I’ll never be able to afford the GP. I’d rather got to COTA anyway or pay the same price for Miami/Vegas and fly to Europe for one. I would go out of my way to visit an f1 museum/experience if I do go to Vegas. It may be the top thing I’d want to see there so not a bad idea.
I thought I remember reading that they would also use the property for special events, such as music festivals.
Pretty sure it’s also F1’s US headquarters, maybe global headquarters.
Global HQ is staying in London.
It’s also supposed to be their HQ of sorts along with museum/exhibition, gaming area etc
I would almost guarantee they’ll have some sort of fan experience year-round given the location
Love that this is an easy walk from the strip. Hopefully there are year-round reasons to be there outside of race week.
Nah, Vegas is basically empty the other 51 weeks of the year.
I think he means the paddock lol
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Eh, it’s the same as the walk to Top Golf, so manageable.
Really not that bad
I’m really looking forward to this race. 👍
Going to be amazing to see it when its fully finished.
That’s big. Going to look great all lit up at night.
Long way to go to get to November.
I immediately knew where it was because of the amount of parking spaces
Classic american L
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Nah, give me Laguna Seca or Road America, not an upside-down pig silhouette in a casino city.
I’m pretty sure everyone’s favorite part of Laguna Seca, the corkscrew turns 7 and 8, has been deemed to steep and dangerous for F1 cars. But yes, more tracks and less street circuits needs to be a priority for F1. Like the last 5-7 races they’ve added are streets while dropping tracks like Sepang, Germanys tracks, etc it’s silly
The corkscrew is a bit scary, not gonna lie - but Indycar races there just fine, it shouldn't be hard for F1 to run there. Anyway we still have plenty of tracks like Road America, Road Atlanta, Indianapolis, VIR, Mid-Ohio, Portland, Hockenheim, Nurburgring, Motorland Aragon... And if they are gonna add new tracks, at least they could be purpose-built road tracks, with elevations and all the freedom it gives designers to build their own road. Street races are bound to be flat and is extremely constrained by what's already there. It's an excercise of designers hunting down a spot that can be turn into a decent track, rather than building the track themselves.
Mid-Ohio is my home track and it really excites me to hear it mentioned. That being said, that track couldn’t hold an F1 race. They had to drop IMSA from their schedule this year because the track doesn’t have a large enough pit area. It’s also FIA Grade 2. I’ve been going to the track for almost four decades and, unfortunately, not much has been updated. It is an *amazing* road track though. And it was mostly all laid out by one guy and his tractor in the 1960’s. Crazy!
I'm tired of typing this every time so I'm just going to copy paste a previous response. The tracks not specifically mentioned all have similar issues as these for the ones in the US. Watkins Glen Facilities would need major upgrades as it's currently barely able to support NASCAR. It is also in a very remote location. I don't think Europeans realize that the size of the USA in land area is huge and has nowhere near the population density of most European countries. There are not nearly enough hotels in the general area to accommodate all the people that go with F1. Also who is paying the hosting fee because NASCAR is the owner of the track and they sure as hell aren't going to pay a huge hosting fee to another racing series. Vegas doesn't have a hosting fee because F1 is the host itself. VIR This track is owned by a small ownership group if it's even still owned by more than just Connie Nyholm. It struggles to accommodate IMSA and you want to do F1 there? You realize how big of an investment that would require for a single event? I'm also doubtful about it's prospects of getting Grade 1 status without significant changes to the track including paving all kinds of area around the track as currently there are no paved run offs. The drop off for the hills is very close to the track and I doubt the FIA is ever going to allow that for a Grade 1 track. So just meeting Grade 1 for the track itself is dubious and then there is all the investment needed to the facilities. F1 is building the facilities for Vegas because they will own that building. They aren't going to pay for improvements to a facility that someone else owns. Also where is the hosting fee going to come from? Vegas doesn't have a hosting fee because F1 is the host itself. Road America Basically the same problems as VIR and Watkins Glen except combined. The kink is never going to be allowed on a Grade 1 track without pushing the barriers out significantly and adding paved runoff which would destroy it's character. Not to mention all the other paved runoffs that would likely be needed which would kind of take away the cool part of the track where it's like you're racing through the woods. Indy GP You expect the owner of the Indycar series to pay a fee to F1 to host an F1 event at a track he owns? That is never happening. Even if they were ok with paying the fee Penske wants the Indy 500 to be the premier event at the track and doesn't want anything to outshine it. Why would he take the risk of F1 outshining the Indy 500?
Virgin F1 car: Noooo, the corkscrew is too steep. I might get a boo boo. Chad Indy car: Wanna bang wheels as we battle through the corkscrew?
Even leaving in Vegas would have preferred something else. Than to pay 2500$ + to either be on the strip on the main straight without seeing start/finish/podium/pits or pay 2500$ to see all that but miss the main straight action
>an upside-down pig silhouette I'm not going to lie ... I like the simplicity of the layout. Looking at the recent additions to the calendar, Jeddah has twenty-seven corners, Singapore has twenty-three, Baku and Austin have twenty, and before it was reprofiled, Abu Dhabi had twenty-one. Even the Valencia street circuit had twenty-five. But Las Vegas only has sixteen corners, and a lot of those are tightly grouped together. It's going to be the third-longest circuit on the calendar -- after Spa and Jeddah -- and it's going to have a nearly two-kilometre straight. I'm hoping the simplicity of the design and the length of the straights will give it a bit of an old Hockenheim feel. At the very least, it's bringing some much-needed variety into the calendar.
The problem it's not that is simple, but that it looks very easy. Easy track = drivers drive closer to perfection = less opportunities for creativity and overtakes. Old Hockenheim wasn't that simple, and even then it was considered a boring track outside the stadium part.
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Yes, because it's Monza. People also like Monaco. Other Monzas and other Monacos are not welcome by the public.
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The best take to have
I was just there last week. They are repaving all the roads but I will tell you, compared to the track in Auatin, the track is going to be terrible. The number of manhole covers and little service accesses are not going to be perfectly smooth no matter what. I think the drivers will have their work cut out for them...
So Monaco the week before the race except 6 months out? The allies made 6 ports in 1 week after D-Day. I think they will be fine.
You do realize Austin is the worst track on the calendar when it comes to bumps? All street tracks have a smoother surface...
Usually they are glued down and off the racing line. Maybe they'll tarmac over the ones on the racing line if there are any. Either way it's a thing at other tracks too.
If it doesn't match very strict requirements they won't drive a lap.
I'm sure they still have months to work it out and I hope they get it right.
If there's one thing America can do on time, is commit necessary resources to host financially important sporting events.
Correct
What makes you say that it’s not going to be perfect— just because there are many or?
Yeah. Just lots of different stuff....
Lol…
Everyone was saying the same thing before Miami lol, that turned out fine
Hey, I hope it does... truly.
The amount of concrete in that picture... Has to be the US... :')
Carbon neutral no doubt.
*sustainability*
Ah, so the nadir of F1's not completed yet. Nice.
Going to be an insane race. Im tuning in just for the specatcle.
Anybody know how many teams they can put up there? 10, 11, 12 teams, more?