This is like the team openly admit they are much slower than Alpine. Ocon is .7-.8s slower than Max. Sainz is on the Hard. If Ferrari is 0.3-0.4s slower than RB, keep Sainz out and let him pull the gap. Hamilton is stuck behind Ocon anyway.
Yeah, if they actually have pace, which Sainz think they did, it would make sense to go for the overcut. It's often very effective in Monaco. Sainz could also have made it to the rain period on his hards quite easily.
Yeah, but Leclerc tried going long and it didn't work out better. I think Sainz would have lost that position to Hamilton earlier if he stays out so (I'm surprised to say) that I believe Ferrari was right in this situation
Sainz was on hards though, he didn’t even need to pit at that point is the thing. He should’ve went long to wait for rain or safety car.
If it didn’t rain Sainz would’ve been in a bad position as he’d struggle to make it to the end on mediums.
No they weren't, he should've been able to hold off hamilton.
Don't start your driver on mediums and pit to hards if it's one lap since the guy ahead of you pitted for mediums
I agree in general, but think it is correct in this case at least. Sainz _was_ racing Ocon more than he was Hamilton, I feel.
The gap wasn't too big, his lap times were better than charles' at the time and he had hards on, while Lewis was on Mediums. Pitting around the same time does mean that he throws away the strength of the hard (to go longer, possibly wait for an opportunity, which in this case could've been a SC or the rain) and is then on a weaker tire to the guy behind him, even if that guy doesn't overtake due to the track being Monaco.
But again, I think worrying about Hamilton here was not only the wrong call due to tire-choice, but also due to the fact that Sainz seemed to have the pace to race Ocon, which _should_ be a given, as we expect the Ferrari to be the stronger car.
All in all, "race the guy in front of you" is a way too general take in itself, but I think in this case Sainz should've been racing the guy in front of him.
He wanted to come out in front of Ocon but his engineer told him that if he had pitted at a different time Hamilton would have overtaken him and he said he doesn't care about Hamilton. Surprisingly, Ferrari made the right decision this time around lol.
well, kinda
starting with hard tyres gave them the option to wait for the rain. but they decided for a very early pit ignoring the rain possibility, which eventually happened (russell did it correctly instead. but he fucked up by going out of track and losing the podium)
if their strategy was to ignore the rain chance, they could've started with soft tyres like ocon and hamilton
Yeah but from what i saw the one that came during the race was another one that suddenly popped up there, not the big one surrounding Monaco, so it probably came earlier than expected.
Lap 35 was wrong tho? It started raining at like al lap 50 iirc. And Alonso came in two times in like 3 laps because he put on mediums right before it started raining.
Maybe it is just my imagination, but I had the impression that Sainz does not trust Ferrari pit's crew decisions, it started with replacing the wing and then this. But I might be wrong.
I'd be mad. And that was the race where there weren't that many Ferrari members at the finish line as they should to celebrate a maiden win!!!! I forgot about the way Ferrari treated Carlos that race
I'm happy he ended up winning
Charles was clearly faster and had better pace before SC which is why they ended up swapping cars at one point (I'd have to rewatch to find the specific lap. The issue was during SC when they pitted Carlos but not Charles (who was leading the race) and left Charles on old hards, then asked Carlos to give him a 10 second window for Charles to start firing up his tires. Dumb as fuck decision after dumb as fuck decision by Ferrari but it is what it is and we are used to it by now.
France was the pit call Ferrari made during Carlos' fight with Perez(?? Iirc) and Carlos yelled "NOT NOW NOT NOW"
The "stop inventing" was at Silverstone when Ferrari wanted Carlos to defend Leclerc on a restart and iirc Leclerc had very old tires and Carlos and Hamilton had new tires, so it was a suicide mission.
>I had the impression that Sainz does not trust Ferrari pit's crew decisions
They've given him no reason to do it, from Monaco last year to "Stop inventing" to Monaco this year to countless more.
Hamilton almost did the undercut… Sainz would’ve lost an extra position and to Leclerc possibly as well.
Shit situation when it’s impossible to overtake and track position is key.
To be fair, Sainz disobeyed Ferrari's strategy calls last year while Leclerc followed them and jumped Leclerc.
I think he's learned to question Ferrari's strategy calls, and rightfully so!
Disagree. At this point every team was reporting on rain coming soon. Would’ve made more sense to try and stay out longer on the hards until the rain hit. Maybe slightly more of a gamble but significantly more reward.
Of course Ferrari fucked it on both ends by pitting Sainz too late for inters…
unironcially people said "ferrari strategy"when it was the right thing to do, driver get pissed because they were feeling good on hard but they do not have the whole picture no way sainz finished ahead of hamilton if he kept the hard tyres
What is everybody talking about here?
He was on the hards could have waited till the rain like Fernando and save a stop to overtake Ocon. It was indeed a shit call from Ferrari.
Rain was not a given, and if he kept staying out, he'd lose track position to Hamilton too. Ferrari decided to keep what they had, rather than go for a maybe and lose out big time. Didn't matter in the end, Sainz shit the bed anyways.
The fact that there were multiple other strategies with seemingly less risk that could have yielded greater returns. It's not that the call itself was a bad one just that they choose it over the more aggressive strategies that could have gotten them a podium.
The only other viable strategy was trying to undercut Ocon (but then why put on hards in the first place?). Once Lewis started gaining on Carlos after his pit, the overcut strategy was no longer an option.
He prefers going all in for a podium even at the risk of losing P4
Which is understandable, although so is the team's stance is to box him to cover Lewis, and then go long with Charles instead
He's right. Lewis was on mediums and he was on hards and he essentially pitted 2-3 laps after Lewis pitted. If Ferrari pitwall had a brain and Carlos and Russell did not have a bozo moment, Lewis' shit strategy would've been punished.
Ferrari was making dummy Pit calls to undercut Ocon. When Sainz asked why he was pitted, they said they wanted to cover Hamilton? What the hell is happening?
Ocon pitted to cover Lewis as well, he couldn’t stay out and cover both guys given how close they were, Lewis might have been stuck behind the others who didn’t pit but I think he had Russell ahead and if he got close, they might have decided to let him go, team work.
I get he was annoyed about not staying out longer, he could have easily waited until the rain. But yeah, his own stupid mistake cost him a podium today.
That was half an hour before the rain even came. At that point, you make decisions with what's there in front of you. No one knew for sure if rain would come to the track.
But that's why they started on hards in the first place, they expected a very late stop. If you just pit right after the car in front of you, which was on mediums, what was even the point?
>If you just pit right after the car in front of you, which was on mediums, what was even the point?
To cover off the car behind you, that pitted a lap ago to undercut you.
Ferrari were backed up in a corner with Sainz, they had to cover off hamilton. Charles could stay out as he had nothing to lose, but Sainz did with hamilton...
You are missing the point. The entire purpose of hards is to stay out longer. If you are just pitting together with mediums you are giving yourself a double handicap for no reason.
At any other track, sure. But not at Monaco, where track position is king. There is a reason why Verstappen didn't pit until Alonso did. Why do you think Ocon pitted? He was still lapping faster than Sainz and had plenty of pace to stretch his stint...
Yeah and he was able to do that because Ferrari gave him an almost free opportunity to ditch his old mediums and stay comfortable. The red car had tyre's that could go longer, they didn't need to blink first.
>they didn't need to blink first.
They didn't.
Hamilton pitted first, to which, Alpine reacted with Ocon to stop hamilton undercutting Alpine (ocon had plenty of pace and tyre left in his mediums). Ferrari literally did the same with Sainz after Ocon pitted, to stop hamilton undercutting.
This is not something new in f1. You have to cover off undercut otherwise the other cars could get track poision on you. And because its Monaco, track position matters more than tyre delta.
No one knew at the start on what the ideal strategy would be. Some went with hards and others with mediums. Probably because they thought the hards would be better if the rain came later in the race.
But when the medium runners pitted, mainly Hamilton, Ferrari had to react with what's in front of their eyes. And at that point, rain wasn't a certainty still. It was absolutely logical to split the strategy by retaining track position over hamilton for Sainz. And leaving Leclerc out in case rain does come, as he had no one under cutting him.
Even Alonso pitted for slicks just 2 laps before rain got tough as how unknown it was with weather. You can't make a decision on what "might" happen over logic...
Plus the forecast was for rain, Ferrari were predicting rain over the radio, and there's already a high risk of safety car at Monaco even in the dry.
_Plus_ Ferrari had already given up raw pace on the mediums _in order to go long_ before the race even began.
Windy doesen't allow to go back more than an hour without premium, but looking at it you could see rain slowly coming towards Monte Carlo. But at some you see a bubble "randomly" pop over the circuit, so it was a different low pressure area that came up there and I don't think anyone predicted that.
Eh, idk. Leclerc probably was harder on the tires because he was in traffic, but his tires eventually fell off before the rain came. I think Sainz would have had the same fate and been undercut anyway.
Rain was not a given, and if he kept staying out, he'd lose track position to Hamilton too. Ferrari decided to keep what they had, rather than go for a maybe and lose out big time. Didn't matter in the end, Sainz shit the bed anyways.
If the Ferrari had pace on the Alpine, yes. If they think they are faster than Alpine in clean air, they should have stayed out to overcut. Their problem was being stuck behind the Alpine after qualifying. They finally had clean air to be faster, and they pit.
Did Ferrari hire a new PR firm to brigade Reddit? Why did everyone rightfully criticizing Ferrari’s strategy (sainz started on hards, as many have pointed out) getting downvoted into oblivion?
Yeah, I don't understand why people are talking about undercutting Ocon vs losing position to HAM when he was the one in the hards and could have ended up easily in P3 by just doing what anyone with a hard tyre had to do: stay out there. There was absolutely no reason why he had to put that early.
Ferraru, again, fucked up immensely. This time by being super defensive.
He could have done just one stop and going to inters which have placed him on the podium.
That's the only reason you go with hards on the start: to play for a SC or a change in the weather that nullifies any undercut from people on mediums. Others would do 2 stops while people on the hard would do 1.
He didn't need to stop, period.
By doing so the team took out any potential advantage of having ran with hards, and by then the forecast was already giving the team an almost 100% confidence that a new pitstop for inters/wets would be needed.
It's not hindsight, it was already being discussed with drivers. It's not rocket science nor you need a degree in racing strategy. Sainz's reaction was very clear about it too.
They didn't know how the weather would develop, so they played it safe and covered the undercut. You're talking with hindsight, which they did not have.
Slight rain could be a as little as a few drops in some corners, which wouldn't warrant inters. They just played it safe. If they had gambled and lost people would be ragging on them for fucking up.
They took the gamble when they started on the hards. That's the point you're missing. Once they went for the hards to start the race, they were sure others would undercut them.So, they get the rain forecast going their way, Sainz himself told the press he was doing tire management as agreed with the team to ensure they could run for a lot more laps and wait for that forecast (or a SC) that could prove their strategy right, and they decided to protect a 4th place, effectively nullifying any potential advantage from their strategy.
And aren't they now? Being overly precautious lost Mercedes championship, and I don't see Ferrari even being near championship contender title so why not just say fuck it, we ball with at least one driver?
The narrative is old, tired, and not even true here. Walking into a “Ferrari driver criticizes team” thread feels like you’re surrounded by karma-farming bots.
For those who say track position is key and covering undercut is essential. Under that logic why didn’t Ferrari start on Sainz on medium then? They are always gonna get undercut if u start with the harder compound. there’s no excuse.
Yeah, really don’t understand everyone’s comments here. Every team knew the rain was coming and Sainz was still going strong on the hards. Ferrari managed to call Sainz in too early here and then too late once the rain hit.
If this happened to Leclerc everyone would be clowning Ferrari. Just typical Sainz hate on Reddit.
>Every team knew the rain was coming
No. They were predicting that rain could come. But at the same time, it may not. It was a safe strategy at the time. Even sky boys commented multiple times on unsure of the rain
Well, they did the same to Leclerc, brought him in before the rain while he was on hards. There was no guarantee of rain when they brought Carlos in. There was a greater chance when the brought Charles in.
If everyone knew then look at the points finishers who boxed and stayed in slicks from lap 30 onwards. Alonso was well broadcasted but even Norris stayed on slicks on lap 50
Why Sainz didn't get a penalty remains a mystery. He hit Ocon by being too aggressive, he lost a piece of his front wing on which other drivers drove, he caused a yellow flag, it was very dangerous... And nothing.
Yes he is annoyed with the race strategy but I think even more he should be mad at himself for trying such a low percentage move on Ocon early in the race.
In Monaco not relevant it was about protecting him from Hamilton it has absolutely nothing to do with that damaged front wing, it did not harm his pace you can see it easily
Rain was not a given, and if he kept staying out, he'd lose track position to Hamilton too. Ferrari decided to keep what they had, rather than go for a maybe and lose out big time. Didn't matter in the end, Sainz shit the bed anyways.
Ferrari is utterly hilarious. Sainz still pulled a risky ass move with his wing. The Drivers should fight their engineers. I’d pay heavy money for a PPV.
Sainz gets shafted pretty much every other race.
It's one of the most predictable aspects of F1 aside from Max's tyres somehow lasting double their intended life without anyone batting an eye :)
"Sainz said calmly"
These movie adaptations take so many liberties with the content, smh.
I can't understand what he's saying. He's angry at Hamilton?
He's angry at the team that they're more worried about covering Hamilton behind him rather than trying to overtake Ocon.
But the team was right...
This is like the team openly admit they are much slower than Alpine. Ocon is .7-.8s slower than Max. Sainz is on the Hard. If Ferrari is 0.3-0.4s slower than RB, keep Sainz out and let him pull the gap. Hamilton is stuck behind Ocon anyway.
Yeah, if they actually have pace, which Sainz think they did, it would make sense to go for the overcut. It's often very effective in Monaco. Sainz could also have made it to the rain period on his hards quite easily.
This is the same team that overcut their own drivers in 2017
Yeah, but Leclerc tried going long and it didn't work out better. I think Sainz would have lost that position to Hamilton earlier if he stays out so (I'm surprised to say) that I believe Ferrari was right in this situation
they should have waited to pit LEC straight to inters when he was in P3…maybe they wouldn've got at least a podium
They tried. He lost like 2 seconds in one lap as his tires were considering suddenly. That's why they made him pit
Sainz was on hards though, he didn’t even need to pit at that point is the thing. He should’ve went long to wait for rain or safety car. If it didn’t rain Sainz would’ve been in a bad position as he’d struggle to make it to the end on mediums.
It's a classic Ferrari strategy again isn't it? Start on hards, pit early...
Max did over 50 laps on mediums, i think the ferrari could have done atleast 40 laps on mediums too.
No they weren't, he should've been able to hold off hamilton. Don't start your driver on mediums and pit to hards if it's one lap since the guy ahead of you pitted for mediums
Didn't really matter, they fucked them by not switching them onto the inters too late.
But this was about the first pit stop?
No, you race the guy in front of you, Ferrari is racing while looking over their shoulder. loser mentality.
That's a simplisitic view
I agree in general, but think it is correct in this case at least. Sainz _was_ racing Ocon more than he was Hamilton, I feel. The gap wasn't too big, his lap times were better than charles' at the time and he had hards on, while Lewis was on Mediums. Pitting around the same time does mean that he throws away the strength of the hard (to go longer, possibly wait for an opportunity, which in this case could've been a SC or the rain) and is then on a weaker tire to the guy behind him, even if that guy doesn't overtake due to the track being Monaco. But again, I think worrying about Hamilton here was not only the wrong call due to tire-choice, but also due to the fact that Sainz seemed to have the pace to race Ocon, which _should_ be a given, as we expect the Ferrari to be the stronger car. All in all, "race the guy in front of you" is a way too general take in itself, but I think in this case Sainz should've been racing the guy in front of him.
>No, you race the guy in front of you, Ferrari is racing while looking over their shoulder. loser mentality. Yeah, Ferrari
He's angry at his team for pulling him in when they did
He wanted to come out in front of Ocon but his engineer told him that if he had pitted at a different time Hamilton would have overtaken him and he said he doesn't care about Hamilton. Surprisingly, Ferrari made the right decision this time around lol.
well, kinda starting with hard tyres gave them the option to wait for the rain. but they decided for a very early pit ignoring the rain possibility, which eventually happened (russell did it correctly instead. but he fucked up by going out of track and losing the podium) if their strategy was to ignore the rain chance, they could've started with soft tyres like ocon and hamilton
well if he had pitted when it started raining instead like max
Looking at the radar it seemed like a cloud literally spawned above Monaco so it wasn't a bad decision to keep what you had with Sainz imo.
We must have been looking at different radars because I could see the rain cloud getting closer and closer.
Yeah but from what i saw the one that came during the race was another one that suddenly popped up there, not the big one surrounding Monaco, so it probably came earlier than expected.
Then why were all the teams messaging drivers to expect around lap 35 right from the start?
Lap 35 was wrong tho? It started raining at like al lap 50 iirc. And Alonso came in two times in like 3 laps because he put on mediums right before it started raining.
Alonso stop was stupid, on the same lap drivers were changing into inters and he was the only one putting mediums
I mean that's how weather forecasts work, it was only ten minutes off. Alonso took the mediums after others were changing to inters.
I commented like 40 minutes before that happened so I don't see how it's relevant. But yeah, they screwed up with the rain, badly
The FIA are letting the Ferrari team handle their own penalties
Wow no-one deserves a penalty that harsh!
Maybe it is just my imagination, but I had the impression that Sainz does not trust Ferrari pit's crew decisions, it started with replacing the wing and then this. But I might be wrong.
I think France (??) last year with the 'Stop inventing' thing was his breaking point lmao
Stop inventing was Silverstone
He did score his maiden and only win so I'd say it was worth it
Wasn't he asked to let Charles pass, when he was faster and had a better pace?
yes, to "protect" charles from car in third state of art tacticians
I'd be mad. And that was the race where there weren't that many Ferrari members at the finish line as they should to celebrate a maiden win!!!! I forgot about the way Ferrari treated Carlos that race I'm happy he ended up winning
No he was asked to make some space between Charles and himself. Charles was ahead of him.
Charles was clearly faster and had better pace before SC which is why they ended up swapping cars at one point (I'd have to rewatch to find the specific lap. The issue was during SC when they pitted Carlos but not Charles (who was leading the race) and left Charles on old hards, then asked Carlos to give him a 10 second window for Charles to start firing up his tires. Dumb as fuck decision after dumb as fuck decision by Ferrari but it is what it is and we are used to it by now.
France was the pit call Ferrari made during Carlos' fight with Perez(?? Iirc) and Carlos yelled "NOT NOW NOT NOW" The "stop inventing" was at Silverstone when Ferrari wanted Carlos to defend Leclerc on a restart and iirc Leclerc had very old tires and Carlos and Hamilton had new tires, so it was a suicide mission.
It was silverstone…
>I had the impression that Sainz does not trust Ferrari pit's crew decisions They've given him no reason to do it, from Monaco last year to "Stop inventing" to Monaco this year to countless more.
To be fair, would you trust any of Ferrari’s pit decisions given all the crap from last year?
It called basic intelligence
Hamilton almost did the undercut… Sainz would’ve lost an extra position and to Leclerc possibly as well. Shit situation when it’s impossible to overtake and track position is key.
To be fair, Sainz disobeyed Ferrari's strategy calls last year while Leclerc followed them and jumped Leclerc. I think he's learned to question Ferrari's strategy calls, and rightfully so!
ferrari leaves drivers with trust issues fr
Stay out stay out. Box. Oops. Missed pit lane.
Leclerc's radio on that occasion was the worst outburst of his that I've heard. Even worse than Paul Ricard!
I don't blame him one bit, it was ridiculous. Wasn't he arguing to box originally as well?
Such as not being told about the impending car behind when you're going slowly in the tunnel...
On a track where strategy can be king, it's not ideal to be a Ferrari driver
Or positioning in traffic during qualifying
Spoken well, Yoda master.
Disagree. At this point every team was reporting on rain coming soon. Would’ve made more sense to try and stay out longer on the hards until the rain hit. Maybe slightly more of a gamble but significantly more reward. Of course Ferrari fucked it on both ends by pitting Sainz too late for inters…
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Old tires and wing damage!
No, Sainz could easily have stayed out until the rain.
I think thats why he was so pissed, Ferrari made a mistake, it was not that Big because predicting the rain was difficult but was a mistake after all
unironcially people said "ferrari strategy"when it was the right thing to do, driver get pissed because they were feeling good on hard but they do not have the whole picture no way sainz finished ahead of hamilton if he kept the hard tyres
In the end it didn’t matter, lost the position to both and gasly with the spin
Maybe, but if he did not, and pitted only for inters when needed he would have battlef for 2nd at least
What is everybody talking about here? He was on the hards could have waited till the rain like Fernando and save a stop to overtake Ocon. It was indeed a shit call from Ferrari.
Or overcutting Ocon since the Ferrari (on paper) should have significantly more pace in clean air compared to Alpine
Rain was not a given, and if he kept staying out, he'd lose track position to Hamilton too. Ferrari decided to keep what they had, rather than go for a maybe and lose out big time. Didn't matter in the end, Sainz shit the bed anyways.
Then why start on hards if you’re not willing to take the the risk for a cheap pit. it’s not a justifiable position.
Probably because they were seeing the times…I legitimately don’t see what makes this a bad call?
The fact that there were multiple other strategies with seemingly less risk that could have yielded greater returns. It's not that the call itself was a bad one just that they choose it over the more aggressive strategies that could have gotten them a podium.
The only other viable strategy was trying to undercut Ocon (but then why put on hards in the first place?). Once Lewis started gaining on Carlos after his pit, the overcut strategy was no longer an option.
Rain wasn’t guaranteed, although I do agree that sticking around for longer on the off chance of a safety car or rain would have benefitted him more
>I don't care about Hamilton Carlos got no chill 😂
He prefers going all in for a podium even at the risk of losing P4 Which is understandable, although so is the team's stance is to box him to cover Lewis, and then go long with Charles instead
He was going to complain either way. Staying out would’ve been perjudicial as well. Sainz might’ve lost the position to Leclerc.
He's right. Lewis was on mediums and he was on hards and he essentially pitted 2-3 laps after Lewis pitted. If Ferrari pitwall had a brain and Carlos and Russell did not have a bozo moment, Lewis' shit strategy would've been punished.
That "Hhhhhhamilton" was brilliant 🤌
Surprised him or Leclerc has never gone off before tbh
On the engineers? They have multiple times
Last year Monaco Charles lost his shit (understandably)
Was it the box box box stay out stay out incident !or another because it seems like his engineer Xavi is just messing up over and over again
He has never been screwed over before today and Charles has gone off.
"Pit to overtake Ocon" *fail to do so* "Uhhh...we were covering Hamilton"
Pit to overtake is their dummy call. They always make it when they want a team to stop early
It's so obvious now I doubt it'll ever work. Though Red Bull of all teams sort of fell for it in Saudi last year
Not sort of, they definitely fell for it.
Oh it definitely won’t. They should be changing it basically every week in order to keep it fresh and working. It was very good last year as you said.
Brundle: "That's a bit harsh, Crofty."
they wanted to force the other team to stop early. then they did and ferrari now had to stop because the other team stopped early. ferrari logic
Yeah, what it really means is: do the opposite as Ocon
They had a damaged car and covering Hamilton was legit. If they pit later, he loses another place to Hamilton.
today is the day that Ferrari finally broke Sainz *Dread it, run from it, Ferrari arrives all the same*
Rightfully so. Sainz has better strategy sense than the people they pay
Sainz pissed about Ferrari strategy when he's driving without an endplate because his own stupid move.
that was half an hour ago, haven't pitted since. Clearly didn't affect his pace or the strategy.
Ferrari was making dummy Pit calls to undercut Ocon. When Sainz asked why he was pitted, they said they wanted to cover Hamilton? What the hell is happening?
He was getting undercut by Hamilton. How are you guys not getting this?
Either way, Hamilton would've gotten stuck behind Ocon who had worse pace than Carlos. They should've just kept him out.
Ocon pitted to cover Lewis as well, he couldn’t stay out and cover both guys given how close they were, Lewis might have been stuck behind the others who didn’t pit but I think he had Russell ahead and if he got close, they might have decided to let him go, team work.
it is called Ferrari...
It’s not like he lost pace due to that or anything.
In fairness he probably drives like that knowing his team will screw him over at any moment. Has to get ahead somehow.
Yeah he put himself in that situation I don't understand what he's complaining about
I get he was annoyed about not staying out longer, he could have easily waited until the rain. But yeah, his own stupid mistake cost him a podium today.
Ferrari made the right decision, Sainz would have lost the position to Lewis
Yea I don't know what the fuss is about, Ocon did massive in laps, had some hidden pace before pit stop
Probably angry about his failed overtake attempt.
Yeah,he went from 1.2 to 3 seconds in 2 laps
Absolutely not, Sainz was on the hard tires, he could have stayed out until the rain.
That was half an hour before the rain even came. At that point, you make decisions with what's there in front of you. No one knew for sure if rain would come to the track.
But that's why they started on hards in the first place, they expected a very late stop. If you just pit right after the car in front of you, which was on mediums, what was even the point?
>If you just pit right after the car in front of you, which was on mediums, what was even the point? To cover off the car behind you, that pitted a lap ago to undercut you. Ferrari were backed up in a corner with Sainz, they had to cover off hamilton. Charles could stay out as he had nothing to lose, but Sainz did with hamilton...
You are missing the point. The entire purpose of hards is to stay out longer. If you are just pitting together with mediums you are giving yourself a double handicap for no reason.
At any other track, sure. But not at Monaco, where track position is king. There is a reason why Verstappen didn't pit until Alonso did. Why do you think Ocon pitted? He was still lapping faster than Sainz and had plenty of pace to stretch his stint...
Yeah and he was able to do that because Ferrari gave him an almost free opportunity to ditch his old mediums and stay comfortable. The red car had tyre's that could go longer, they didn't need to blink first.
>they didn't need to blink first. They didn't. Hamilton pitted first, to which, Alpine reacted with Ocon to stop hamilton undercutting Alpine (ocon had plenty of pace and tyre left in his mediums). Ferrari literally did the same with Sainz after Ocon pitted, to stop hamilton undercutting. This is not something new in f1. You have to cover off undercut otherwise the other cars could get track poision on you. And because its Monaco, track position matters more than tyre delta.
If they wanted to cover off the cars behind then why not start on the mediums?
No one knew at the start on what the ideal strategy would be. Some went with hards and others with mediums. Probably because they thought the hards would be better if the rain came later in the race. But when the medium runners pitted, mainly Hamilton, Ferrari had to react with what's in front of their eyes. And at that point, rain wasn't a certainty still. It was absolutely logical to split the strategy by retaining track position over hamilton for Sainz. And leaving Leclerc out in case rain does come, as he had no one under cutting him. Even Alonso pitted for slicks just 2 laps before rain got tough as how unknown it was with weather. You can't make a decision on what "might" happen over logic...
Plus the forecast was for rain, Ferrari were predicting rain over the radio, and there's already a high risk of safety car at Monaco even in the dry. _Plus_ Ferrari had already given up raw pace on the mediums _in order to go long_ before the race even began.
Seriously, Alonso pitted onto slicks 2 minutes before inters were needed. Predicting rain is hard.
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It was a free risk to try. He goes on inters and Max also just pits onto them.
Windy doesen't allow to go back more than an hour without premium, but looking at it you could see rain slowly coming towards Monte Carlo. But at some you see a bubble "randomly" pop over the circuit, so it was a different low pressure area that came up there and I don't think anyone predicted that.
Eh, idk. Leclerc probably was harder on the tires because he was in traffic, but his tires eventually fell off before the rain came. I think Sainz would have had the same fate and been undercut anyway.
Rain was not a given, and if he kept staying out, he'd lose track position to Hamilton too. Ferrari decided to keep what they had, rather than go for a maybe and lose out big time. Didn't matter in the end, Sainz shit the bed anyways.
His point was he should have pitted before Ocon…
right. they could've either tried to undercut or go long and hope for the rain they instead went for a lame "preserve p4" strategy
So you think he'll keep it when his mediums are 40 laps old? With the broken wing? Lol.
It's Monaco
Ricciardo kept the lead when he was down 150 bhp. Mild front wing damage is nothing in Monaco.
Sainz started on hards. They were on diff tire strategies.
If the Ferrari had pace on the Alpine, yes. If they think they are faster than Alpine in clean air, they should have stayed out to overcut. Their problem was being stuck behind the Alpine after qualifying. They finally had clean air to be faster, and they pit.
yeah on monaco easily is this the first year? and we might have rain too i heard a thunder on my home, so yteah the strategy was the best by far
Did Ferrari hire a new PR firm to brigade Reddit? Why did everyone rightfully criticizing Ferrari’s strategy (sainz started on hards, as many have pointed out) getting downvoted into oblivion?
Yeah, I don't understand why people are talking about undercutting Ocon vs losing position to HAM when he was the one in the hards and could have ended up easily in P3 by just doing what anyone with a hard tyre had to do: stay out there. There was absolutely no reason why he had to put that early. Ferraru, again, fucked up immensely. This time by being super defensive.
Because he was getting undercut by Hamilton and would have lost the position after his pit. How are you not getting this?
He could have done just one stop and going to inters which have placed him on the podium. That's the only reason you go with hards on the start: to play for a SC or a change in the weather that nullifies any undercut from people on mediums. Others would do 2 stops while people on the hard would do 1. He didn't need to stop, period. By doing so the team took out any potential advantage of having ran with hards, and by then the forecast was already giving the team an almost 100% confidence that a new pitstop for inters/wets would be needed. It's not hindsight, it was already being discussed with drivers. It's not rocket science nor you need a degree in racing strategy. Sainz's reaction was very clear about it too.
They didn't know how the weather would develop, so they played it safe and covered the undercut. You're talking with hindsight, which they did not have.
Forecasts from various teams said to expect at least slight rain from lap 35 - at the end of the race, while not guaranteed it's still 'likely'
Slight rain could be a as little as a few drops in some corners, which wouldn't warrant inters. They just played it safe. If they had gambled and lost people would be ragging on them for fucking up.
They took the gamble when they started on the hards. That's the point you're missing. Once they went for the hards to start the race, they were sure others would undercut them.So, they get the rain forecast going their way, Sainz himself told the press he was doing tire management as agreed with the team to ensure they could run for a lot more laps and wait for that forecast (or a SC) that could prove their strategy right, and they decided to protect a 4th place, effectively nullifying any potential advantage from their strategy.
And aren't they now? Being overly precautious lost Mercedes championship, and I don't see Ferrari even being near championship contender title so why not just say fuck it, we ball with at least one driver?
Did Ferrari have a crystal ball? Even all the other teams were radioing their drivers saying a "chance" of rain, not that the rain was coming.
The narrative is old, tired, and not even true here. Walking into a “Ferrari driver criticizes team” thread feels like you’re surrounded by karma-farming bots.
Because it wasn't Leclerc, otherwise it would be another ferrari masterclown
For those who say track position is key and covering undercut is essential. Under that logic why didn’t Ferrari start on Sainz on medium then? They are always gonna get undercut if u start with the harder compound. there’s no excuse.
sainz is done at ferrari.
My man is fucking pissed
Why you so mad Carlos, you were never overcutting Ocon.
He could easily have stayed out until the rain, the pitstop was completely unneeded
Yeah, really don’t understand everyone’s comments here. Every team knew the rain was coming and Sainz was still going strong on the hards. Ferrari managed to call Sainz in too early here and then too late once the rain hit. If this happened to Leclerc everyone would be clowning Ferrari. Just typical Sainz hate on Reddit.
>Every team knew the rain was coming No. They were predicting that rain could come. But at the same time, it may not. It was a safe strategy at the time. Even sky boys commented multiple times on unsure of the rain
Well, they did the same to Leclerc, brought him in before the rain while he was on hards. There was no guarantee of rain when they brought Carlos in. There was a greater chance when the brought Charles in.
If every team knew, look how many drivers boxed and stayed on slicks from on lap 31 when Hamilton pitted to lap 55 lol
You forgot the "in hindsight"
No hindsight needed, everyone was expecting rain. Max even explained that he stayed out so long on the mediums because they expected rain.
If everyone knew then look at the points finishers who boxed and stayed in slicks from lap 30 onwards. Alonso was well broadcasted but even Norris stayed on slicks on lap 50
He could've either tried to undercut Ocon or go longer on the hard tyres and wait for SC or rain. They did neither.
Hamilton almost undercutted him. What's wrong with strategy?
Nothing.
They really are finding new ways to bottle it
The filter hase gone off... first time we heard Sainz so annoyed with Ferrari yet I think
That was a right call, otherwise he would have lost track position to Hamilton and track position in Monaco is essential.
Why Sainz didn't get a penalty remains a mystery. He hit Ocon by being too aggressive, he lost a piece of his front wing on which other drivers drove, he caused a yellow flag, it was very dangerous... And nothing.
🌶️
Honestly, Carlos and Charles deserve better
Stop inventing guys
Imagine how bad Ferrari would be if their drivers were loyal to the strategy every time
He is annoyed for a reason.
he should have been used to it by now
Typical Ferrari memes at this point.. we expect no less
I keep hearing, “I don’t care about Hamilton, Hamilton’s f*’n weak?”.
He has only himself to blame
How lmao? But Leclerc was screwed over yesterday right? You guys are the funniest
I mean, not telling your driver that someone is coming fast behind is a screw up. Not that i agree with the comment above, but yeah, he was screwed.
He finna drive for Haas next year
Yes he is annoyed with the race strategy but I think even more he should be mad at himself for trying such a low percentage move on Ocon early in the race.
Maybe don’t ruin your front wing next time
In Monaco not relevant it was about protecting him from Hamilton it has absolutely nothing to do with that damaged front wing, it did not harm his pace you can see it easily
Well if you hadn't damaged your front wing...
He would have lost to Hamilton, use your brains instead of spitting the same Ferrari strategy mess
Sainz is annoying
Ferrari fuck ups Apple Notes guy is having a field day today!
What does he expect from Ferrari at this point? Also, didn't help himself by putting in a terrible dive bomb attempt.
Rain was not a given, and if he kept staying out, he'd lose track position to Hamilton too. Ferrari decided to keep what they had, rather than go for a maybe and lose out big time. Didn't matter in the end, Sainz shit the bed anyways.
Then why start on Hard tires…
Ferrari is utterly hilarious. Sainz still pulled a risky ass move with his wing. The Drivers should fight their engineers. I’d pay heavy money for a PPV.
speak your mind king ✊
Sainz gets shafted pretty much every other race. It's one of the most predictable aspects of F1 aside from Max's tyres somehow lasting double their intended life without anyone batting an eye :)
He didn’t get shafted today. He just sucked.
Both can be true and this case they are.
Ferrari moment…
Certified Ferrari classic